through Presbytery and Independency will soone gird themselves to battle in those Notions and we shall never want enough of Presbytery and Independency till they undo us after our own fashion and if they cannot kill us as Cavaliers and Malignants in this new way they may kill us as Presbyters and Independents And surely they will have so much Iesuitisme as never to let us starve for Hereticks and Schismaticks the Iesuits run commonly over to the Lutherans and raile there against Calvinists and so they never want matter for division in Germany it is the great design of Conclaves and Popish Councels to practice upon States in their own religions and customes and to turne us back into Popery by being Protestants amongst us and to raise up new troubles by changing the old and by transfiguring their enmity Satan himselfe can be an Angell of light when he cannot passe as a power of darknesse and where works he thus but in the children of disobedience And Brethren let us not let our enemies in at back-doâ—res of Presbytery and Independency let us not undo our selves when God would save us let us see that these workings are but the old designe in a new Forme The last reason is People are not wholly undeceived in their present Ministers And to that end consider 1. That these Ministers who tell them thus and preach thus are neither as Aaron was nor as the Prophets were nor as the Apostles were nor have such an infallible gift nor spirit of discerning so as their words and Sermons are no more to be beleeved then the words of the Scripture proves and people are to trie all and to trie spirits and so trust and now friends not beleeve Sermons too suddenly because their Sermons are not very Scripture but interpretation to their light and light may be darkned with carnall reason and interest 2. That these Ministers who preach so for Presbytery through bloud and persecution now did but a few yeers since preach as confidently for the Service-book for Bishops or against the Presbytery our Brethren of Scotland 3. That these Ministers that preach nothing but Presbitery Government and Divine Right yet never tryed it in their lives nor lived in the experience of it but have it by report and by Idaea or modell or Landship from other Countreys and some specious Scriptures 4. That these Ministers who would presse the Covenant against Popery and Episcopacy root and branch yet will be content though Bishops be unlawfull to say the Bishops hands which ordained them are not and that Bishops could make them Ministers of Christ though they were Antichrist themselves and that Episcopacy could make a lawfull Ministery 5. That these Ministers who preached against Deanes and Archdeacons and Prelates as unlawfull can be content very well with their maintenance their tythes are not popish nor the profits nor revenues are not against Covenant people look a little into these men that hold there is no popery in any thing that makes them rich or maintaines them is this the doctrine of the crosse and selfe-deniall 6. That these Ministers who preached against Pluralities yet now a mastership of a Colledge and a great Living or two of some hundreds a yeer with Chaplainships as they commonly have and two or three great Lectures in conjunction with a great Living is not Plurality nor must be accounted so Nay for a Presbyter to have two livings is no plurality now but for a Prelate to have them is undoubtedly so By the same tenure the Prelates formerly lived at Court and in Lords houses and held Livings as they in the Assembly now by their attendance there 7. That these Ministers who pretend to so much light and certainty of truth yet after two yeers reasoning and proofe have not been able to prove their way of Government from Scripture so as there are so many excellent Quaeries propounded from the Honourable Parliament which lye unanswered unlesse the Ministers intend to resolve the Parliament some other way by making the tumults more and their answers lesse for their books and Sermons speak no lesse Was ever Reformation but where the Red Dragon is in the Pulpit preached for in so much bloud and I pray friends are all things so true as they tell you our greatest and wisest Counsell can see no such thing in it yet and since you expect your Government from the Parliament I pray go not before them in your judgements but stay and examine as they do 8. That the mystery of the Popish Ministery hath ever been to lead the people and stir up the people either by merit or martyrdome or ministery and therefore the poore soules of England had given away all their Lands once to Monks and Friers and would all fight for the Holy Land and the Kings and Princes their power to do with as they pleased and all was as the Priest said for Religion too all as the Holy Church said and now merit martyrdome and ministery carry all before them yet in some measure though not in so much England hath seen so much as to take much of their lands again and Tythes again from the Ministery and the Parliaments have seen so much as a little to debate Religion with the Synods and this Parliament hath seen more by how much they have reasoned disputed quaeried with their Ministers When did ever England see so much liberty before when durst Parliaments talke with their Ministers till now And friends let not the old Popish things of merit martyrdome and ministery carry us away as they did I remember an excellent saying reported of Generall Lesley to our Nobles and Gâ—ntry when they were ready to fight for Bishops to this purpose Shall we lose our bloud for so many fat Swingers And I pray are not these the Sons of the Swingers according to ordination ordained and called by Bishops Is our bloud too good for Bishops and not for Presbyters as some think 9. That these Ministers who seem to close with those whom they so lately called and preached against as Malignants and Cavaliers yet cannot love them or use them otherwise then in designe to help up with the Government and then leave them und persecute them under the same Notion with us as Hereticks using them now as the Israelites did the Gibeonites as hewers of wood and drawers of water and then what will become of these poore soules who having helped up the Presbyters into the roome of the Bishops to be sure they shall neither have Common-prayer-book nor Surplice nor Bishops nor Sacraments for the Directory shall keep out the Common-Prayer-book and Presbyters shall keepe out Bishops and Elders shall keep out all Communicants of such and such sins and Vniformity will keep out Conformity And if ye hope for better by the bustle and differences and sideings Issues and successe are in Gods hand not in ours Ye may know when ye begin but not when ye end and they will be first in
had All the Works wrought in us then were freely of God and of free-gift too as Arminius well observes in the point of universall Grace and we wrought only from a gift given Either place Salvation upon a free bottom or else you make the New Covenant but an Old Covenant in new tearmes in stead of Do this and live Beleeve this and live repent and live obey and live And all this is for want of revealing the mystery more fully To your third That where we find Faith only preached and so Salvation made short work that it is because we have but the Summaries I agree with you that we have but the Doctrine of the Apostles as Johns of whom it is said He spake many other things in his exhortation to the people It is true we have much of what they said and we want much yet we have so much as may shew us that according to the work of Salvation in us Faith is the worke which gives most glory to God Abraham believed it is said and gave glory to God they that beleeve give glory and Faith of all the works of the Spirit is the glorious Gospell-worke Christ cals it the worke indeed this is the worke that ye beleeve So as the only reason why we heare so much of Faith in the Gospell is not only and meerely as you insinuate because we have but their Sermons in Summaries and because of another reason of yours drawn from the qualification of some they Preached to that had other gifts and not Faith But because Faith is of all Spirituall encreasings in us the most gloriously working towards Christ Faith goes out and Faith depends and Faith lives in Christ and Faith brings down Christ and Faith opens the riches and Faith beleeves home all strength comfort glory peace promises And Faith hath so much put upon it as becomes a stumbling stone and a rock of offence to many Justification imputation of righteousnesse is put upon Faith Salvation upon Faith as Christs Bloud is put upon the Wine the Cup that we blesse is it not the Communion of the bloud of Christ and Christs body upon the bread the bread that we breake is it not the Communion of the body of Christ and yet neither the Wine nor the Bread is his Bloud or his Body no more then Faith is either Justification or Righteousnesse but such a work as goes out most into him and carries the soule into him who is Righteousnesse and Justification to us The Word were no mystery if it were not thus ordered and things so mingled that the Spirit only could discerne and distinguish Do not the Papists stumble at Works And why because they see not Faith for Works And do not others stumble at Faith And why because they see not Christ for Faith Do not some say that the words world and all and every man makes some stumble at the Election of some and so conclude Redemption for all Master Gataker 1 That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions and qualifications on our parts Rom 8. 1. Mat. 5. 8. c. 2 Christs Bloud or Wine is not to be filled out too freely to Dogs and Swine to sturdy Rogues 3 That saying promises belongs to sinners as sinners not as humbled c. and all that received him received him in a sinfull condition is a creeping to Antinomiamsme 4 That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children and David and Peter made their peace with God by repentance 5 That God loves us for his own graces in us God is as man and as a Father is angry and chastiseth his for sin 6 Faith is not a perswasion more or lesse of Christs love all may have that men may beleeve too suddenly as Simon Magus 7 Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first to repent we are to try our Faith 2 Cor. 13. 5. 1 John 4. 1. 8 That he clogâ— men with conditions of taking and receiving as well as we of repenting and obeying 9 The summe of this mans Divinity is Men may be saved whether they repent or no whether they beleeve or no. Answer To the first That Christ and his Apostles never Preached Free-grace without conditions c. on our parts I answer They Preached Faith and Repentance and Obedience But how First in degrees of Revelation the Gospell came not all out at once in its glory They Preached them but how not in parts as we have their Doctrine as you confesse they Preached them but all along in the New Testament there is more of their glory and fulnesse revealed concerning them so as the degrees of revealing the parts or summaries of their Sermons the fuller discovery in the whole New Testament are those things you consider not and they are the things we only consider and so dare not Preach the Gospell so in halfes in parts and quarters as you do and yet will not beleeve you do which is so much worse Ye say ye see and therefore your sin remaineth To the second Christ Bloud is not to be filled out to Rogues and Dogs Take heed you charge not Christ for being with Publicans and Sinners you may upon this ground say he Preached false Doctrine because he said He came not to call the Righteous but Sinners What were all of us in our unregenerate condition sinners or righteous persons unholy or holy men of Faith or unbeliefe or not rather dead intrespasses and sins till quickned with Christ To the third That saying Promises belongs to sinners as sinners and not humbled c. I pray to whom doth all Promises belong first but to Christ and from whom to us but from Christ and what are the Elect and the chosen in him before they are called or beleeve but sinners as sinners Do you look that men should be first whole for the Physitian or Righteous for Pardon of sins or justified for Christ or rather sinners unrighteous ungodly While we were yet sinners Christ dyed for us He dyed for the ungodly Christ is the Physitian the Righteousnesse the Sanctification and makes them beleved that were not beloved and to obtaine mercy that had not obtained mercy and Saints who were Sinners and Spirituall who were Carnall So as we looke at Christ and the Promises comming to men in their sins but those men were beloved of God in Christ who suffered for sins before so as they begin not now to be loved but to be made to love God begins not to be reconciled to them but they begin to be reconciled to him The love of God being shed abroad into their hearts by the Holy Ghost which is now given unto them So as we looking at persons as chosen in Christ and at their sins as borne by Christ on his body on the Tree we see nothing in persons to hinder them from the Gospell and offers of Grace there be they never so sinfull to us or themselves they
hath it not a Jus divinum a Divine Right put upon it if all be of the Holy Ghost in it But I would not mistake you you say only that all is by the dictate of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament So it is but part then by your own confession of the Holy Ghost the rest is of the Assembly and Parliament You say The builders have had speciall regard to Jesus Christ the Foundation I will not suspect the Counsels and Debates of any of the builders I know the Disciples of Christ were true Disciples though they had not all of the Spirit at one time which they had at another I hope and I pray that the Lord will make up to the builders what of the Spirit he hath not given them that they may both see to build right and see where they have builded wrong and so pull down againe as well as set up And whereas you say The building may go on by Master Saltmarsh his own consent I say your building will go on it seems whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no. Master Ley in his capacity is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time unlesse the Lord who is above all and hath the mighty even the Princes of the earth to command work for his own glory above all that we can or think Master Ley's Resolution pag. 38 39 40. To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon he saith 1. Why doth he begin with Iohns first Sermon Were not the Esseans c. Hereticks and Schisma icks See Epiphanius c. 2. He makes Pauls Epistles the terminus ad quem which from John's first Sermon to the last make up Twenty nine yeers After the Epistles he brings in the sending the Spirit c. which was but five yeares after the first Sermon of John Baptist 3. Before the end of the Epistles that Government was not which we find in Scripture and if so the Church-Government was not long suspended 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times cannot be said to be hastily done now after so many discussions and deliberate resolutions Reply You say first Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from John's first Sermon I begin there because there began the mystery of the Gospell And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospell manifestation by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such morall necessity why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Johns Sermon to Pauls Epistle to make the time appeare for Government And after you have summed up all the time and periods and find it no two or three yeers work you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now And now after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Johns Sermon c. What have you gained Not that the Government was soon setled Then you have proved much to my advantage and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did the contrary So as you have only been taking some learned paines if you well observe and the Reader well observe you to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practise which is the very thing I aimed at and truly your pains in it have been more exact then mine and I thank you for it But you say It ought not to be so now nor can it be said to be hastily done now that was done so long ago You say true in that But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it and it formed it at first by degrees and the way of Revelation hath been more year's then the first farming reckon but your Antichristian years as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeares and you may be more satisfied So as all both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies and the latter from Antichristianism makes all for the not hastening which I aimed at Indeed if you can as infallibly assure us this forme and modell is the very forme then given out it were very true that you say That it cannot be said to be hastily done now what was done so long agoe viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago For your exception against me concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late if you interpret sense by the strict order of words you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words as you well know Master Ley's Resolution Page 40 41. To that of Heresies c. he saith What if they do not ster up their Patrons against the State c. but they busily poyson the soules of the people and shall they if as Paul Best be suffered to blaspheme and reproach and perturb the publike Peace An Indulgence much like old Elies c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace why doth our Saviour say He came not to send peâ—ce And why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at peace with them For that of morall transgressions he would have the Magistrates set on Set on By whom We have not such meane thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for câ—ntumaâ—ie c. Reply You say What If hereâ—ies stir not up they poyson souls If they poyson let the Gospel-antidote be applied then and no other way which the Gospell will not beare noâ— allow there is the sword of the Spirit and weapons not carnall but mighty and spirituall For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on you are still looking upon Moses though you tell us of Christ Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same a Iewish and Christian State the same and then we shall allow you both Elies sin and his sons maintenance by tythes offerings You say Truth is more precious then peace yet there is a peace precious as well as Truth even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ But to the businesse You would prove Truth to be precious to the disadvantage of Peace and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians and us against the Papists and Christ against Peace But what would you prove Would you prove that truth ought to be established against peace and peace to be no way to truth Surely truth and