Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n
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A33252
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Truth with time, or, Certain reasons proving that none of the seven last plagues or vials are yet poured out neither will the time of their pouring out begin till after the rising of the two witnesses and the fourty months of the Beast's reign be expired : likewise an answer to the said reasons with a reply further the author hath here set down (in a brief exposition) his opinion of the first vial / by John Canne.
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Canne, John, d. 1667?
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1656
(1656)
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Wing C443A; ESTC R23893
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78,059
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119
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much in words as matter if well considered 4. In Chap. 16.4 the Angel poured out his Vial upon the waters and they became blood but Chap. 11. the Witnesses have power over the waters to turn them into blood It is not said they smote the waters or that the waters were turned into blood What may be gathered is one thing but the phrases are not alike 5. If the places are so alike in phrases why are they made so unlike in exposition The first Vial is applied to Waldo Wickliff Luther as smiting the Beast with their mouthes and pens the second and third to Souldiers and Armies and so killing men with their swords and guns Answ 3. Because the Egyptian plagues alluded to were begun by the two Witnesses Moses Aaron before the end of the Captivity or sojourning in Egypt and it is very evident this hath such an allusion Rev. 11.8 because the holy Ghost calls this fourty and two months Egypt also Repl. If the Egyptian plagues by Moses and Aaron the two Witnesses were all poured out before the end of the captivity then following the Allusion all the Vials should be poured out whilst the Witnesses are in sackcloth And to saythe truth to take it otherwise it destroys the life and light of the Argument For if the Vials begun before the rising of the Witnesses then must they be all poured out before the end of the fourty and two months as the ten plagues by the two Witnesses Moses and Aaron were before the end of their Captivity or sojourning in Egypt Thus you see by dividing the Vials as some to go before the rising and some after is contrary to the Allusion For if some were then were all but taking it that none were so there is in my opinion both reason and truth as to the Allusion viz. as Moses and Aaron the two risen Witnesses not in sackcloth neer or about the end of the four hundred and thirty years plagued the Egyptians so the forty and two months of the Beasts tyranny being going out the Spirit of life from God shall enter into his Witnesses for the pouring out of the last plagues upon the Beasts dominion Answ 4. For that the remnant I humbly conceive are to strike in and not to begin to succeed and follow not to direct and lead to execute not to prepare but your opinion makes 144000 or the remnant to begin and the two Witnesses to fall in with them which I see not Repl. Either you or I are here in some mistake both to the Remnant and Witnesses For 1. I do not take the Remnant as you do to be the one hundred fourty and four thousand but as I said before part of the womans seed which never fled into the wilderness against whom the dragon makes war Rev. 12.17 and this before the rising of the Witnesses and so in likelihood refers to the wars in France Holland Germany Britain c. 2. I take the one hundred fourty and four thousand and the risen Witnesses to be all one For as you said well it is a testimony or Witness not persons that is slain the which Testimony or Truth that is the glorious Cause and Interest of Christ riseth and lives again by a spirit of life from God entered into the one hundred fourty and four thousand Answ 5. For that all the hitherto-plagues upon the Beasts dominion do signifie nothing if they were not the matter of the Vials Repl. 1. The conclusion will not follow For whilst the Israelites were in Egypt no doubt the Lord plagued the Egyptians at several times yet they were none of the ten last plagues To come nearer when Abbeys and Monasteries were put down in Hen. 8. his Reign this was a plague upon the Beasts dominion and signified something So hath he been plagued in France Scotland Bohemia the Netherlands yet reckoned no Vials Besides what did the Goths Hunnes Vandals c. but pour out plagues upon the Beasts dominion 2. That they are said to be the last plagues it clearly shews that there were plagues upon the Beasts dominion before For the distinction between former and later must be understood of the Beasts dominion as the subject that is several plagues should be poured upon it before the seven last Plagues or Vials begin Answ 6. And lastly the subjects of the Vials Rev. 16.2 3 4 5 c. of the first the second and the third as the holy Ghost in Scripture opens them have been under the very same wrath mentioned in the first second and third Vials so that I am much perswaded that they are begun by a Scripture-clearness Repl. That which first gave me occasion to question the beginning of the Vials it was that I could not see neither the subjects nor the effects of the Vials as the holy Ghost opens them Rev. 16. under the same wrath as they are interpreted neither the first second nor third there being nothing yet done in my opinion that carries the character of VIAL-WORK upon it 1. That the earth should be taken for the grosser part of Popery where do we finde in Scripture a ground to raise such an Exposition 2. That the subject earth should be universal and yet in many places this gross earth never mov'd but to this day remains as much and as bad as ever 3. That Waldo Wickliff Armachan c. should be Vial-Angels a thing no way sutable to the description of the holy Ghost Rev. 15. So again for the second and third Vials I am not satisfied as they are applied First why the second to the Swedish war in Germany the third to ours in Britain Or 2. as others why the second to the Romish discipline or Hierarchy in England Anno Dom. 1641. the third to fall upon England the Low-Countries and France I do not see Scripture-clearness for these things Nor 3. do I understand what difference there is between the earth and sea as they are expounded for I think the Romish Hierarchy viz. Popes Cardinals Archbishops Bishops Monks Friers c. with all that rabble root and branch as gross earthly superstitions as their Mass their Crosses Purgatory Penance Pilgrimage c. And therefore to make a distinction between Romish doctrine and Romish discipline as two distinct subjects I am not of that opinion but as they rose together so they shall fall together inseparably under one and the same Vial. I confess in things to come as they are secret so we cannot well judge whether men hit or miss in their opinions till they come to pass But in things that are past and so visible here we can say a little more whether men speak pertinently and to purpose I thought to have forborn the Queries but not knowing how it might be taken I have set down the Answers to them A few words to your Queries To the first I answer The one of the living creatures for I like not the name of Beasts nor is it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
and magistratical witnesses joyned together I think they were rather the actions of the Antichristians themselves one plaguing another for worldly and base respects Lastly It is a great mistake I think to make worldly imployment as wars and fighting the Enemy a work of the sackcloth-witnesses for their work is prophesying neither do they smite the Beast's Dominion any other way than spiritually though it do concern civil things There are many wayes to hold forth a witness and Testimony for Jesus Christ but for that place in Rev. 11.3 6. it takes in no magistratical witness if the thing be meerly civil And this is plain in the very Text They shall prophesie 1260 dayes Again In the dayes of their prophesie c. And here it will not be amiss to declare briefly my Opinion concerning the 2 witnesses Rev. 11. The witnesses I take to be a Generation-Confession or Testimony in the behalf of Christ against the Idolatries and Blasphemies of the Beast and all his Helpers during the time of the 42 months I call it first a Confession to distinguish a Testimony from a Truth A man may profess and practise many excellent and eminent Truths and yet not have the Testimony of Jesus Rev. 12.17 for this consisteth in declaring against the evils of persons and things Secondly I call it a Generation-witness because it must be proper to a man 's own time viz. as to own what is of God then opposed and persecuted and what is of the Dragon and Beast countenanced commanded authorized then to testifie against it and if we do not this we are no Generation-Confessors or Witnesses I say whatsoever Truth otherwise we acknowledge it is not to the matter Rev. 11. Joh. 1.7 8. Act. 1.8 4.19 20. 13.31 8.25 18.5 23.11 1 Tim. 6.3 Rev. 1.2 9. 6.9 As a Souldier if he see the Enemy dead at his foot will not stand cutting and hacking of him but leaving him follows and fights the standing Enemy so to declare against Idolatry and Tyranny which is already put down and nothing else this is not Souldier-like and as becomes a brave Champion of Christ it must be to be a Witness indeed the living and standing abominations of our present time which we must boldly and openly testifie against Again they are said to be two Witnesses not in reference to Magistracy and Ministery but two as to the things either witnessed for or against that is as being comprised in two heads neither more nor less 1. Ecclesiastical or Spiritual 2. Civil or Secular Now whereas neer or toward the end of the 1260 days this two-fold Witness shall rise and speak out with more clearness and in the Demonstration of the Spirit and of power then before suddenly and strangely it shall be slain which slaying I take to be no other way then in the Testimony that is Christ's witness so high and eminent before is knock'd in the head In some it is slain through Preferment Honour great Places In others through a Base spirit and Fear of sufferings In others through Bonds and Imprisonment In some through Hypocrisie Apostacie and a fearful Departing from God So that the Witnesses relate not to the persons of men for the person may live though his Witness be slain neither to any Office or Calling whether Magistracie or Ministry but meant of a Generation-testimony for Truth and Righteousness against all Ungodliness and Unrighteousness of men Answer to the third Reason To your third Reason the integral of which lies in the marginal Question What reason there is to begin there as you say and not after nor before I answer 1. Because till then the Beast was not grownfull enough for the Vials but then he was at a full growth and all the world wondered after him Repl. 1. Here again you are much mistaken to think that the Beast was grown full enough for the Vials in the times of Waldo Wickliff Huss Luther c. For he comes not to his growth for the Vials till the time of his reign be expired that is the fourty and two months The sins of the Amorites no doubt were many and great in Abraham's time yet not grown full enough for the Vials till the four hundred years were expired Gen. 15.13 16. To make the iniquity either of a Person or State full the time must run out which God hath appointed Hence then I might frame this Argument Till the Beast be grown full for the Vials they are not to be poured out upon him So you But till the fourty and two months are expired the Beast is not grown full enough for the Vials So the Scripture Therefore none of the Vials are to be poured out upon the Beast till the fourty and two months are expired But 2. had you said that the Beast in Waldo's or Luther's time was grown full enough as to be discovered and known to be the Beast therein I would agree with you but begin else where you will for it is all one whether at Waldo or Luther or four hundred years before either of them the Beast might be said to be grown full enough for the Vials the time onely excepted which is the main thing Answ 2. Because then and not before or after the gross earth of Papacie in all manner of filthy trash c. appeared in height eminently and most universally as the adequate subject of the first Vial. Repl. 1. I have once or twice touch'd this wrest-interpretation and the rather lest we should fall into the fault of our fore-fathers who because Errours for a while had pass'd currant from hand to hand at length believed them without any tryal That by earth Rev. 16.2 should be meant the grosser parts of Popery truly in my opinion it is as weakly gathered from that place as a thing can be For among the several acceptations of the word earth in Scripture not one will be found to second such a sence It is no good way to have the Scriptures follow things but rather let things follow the Scriptures Because we see by the preaching of Waldo Wickliff Armachan Huss Luther c. nothing fell but a little of the grosser part of Popery therefore we must expound earth to be that grosser part of Popery this is not to give pre-eminence to the Scriptures but on the other hand when the Word hath its latitude fulness perfection to apply then what is sutable and agreeable to that this is to give honour to whom honour is due But 2. and to come nearer to the Answer Then say you and not before or after Truly I think this will not appear so in either of your ways though by earth we should understand the grosser parts of Popery For 1. The grosser part of Popery appeared in height eminently and universally some hundred years even before Waldo yea and witnessed against as in his time though not so publickly boldly and clearly opposed as then 2. Neither did the good men you