satisfied the iudgemente of God for vs in our flesh and nature vnited with the diuine nature Of the vnion of the diuine and humaine nature in the person of Iesus Christ and of his office D. Wilt thou then say that Iesus Christ is very God and very man in one selfe person A. If he were not so he could not be our sauioure redéemer mediatoure and Aduocate as he is nor yet the true Christ and anointed of the Lorde Of the vvorks of viuification and sanctification D. What dost thou vnderstande by the works of sanctification and viuification A I take it here in generall for that worke whereby God doth viuifie and regenerate into newe life and doth sanctifie and consecrate his electe to him selfe and his seruice bestowing vppon them the benefites of his sonne Iesus Christ by the vertue of the holy Ghost D. Dost thou meane that God doth presente vnto vs his gifts and graces by his Son Iesus Christ and that he maketh vs partakers capable of thē by his holy spirit A. Euen so do I meane and that he is the only meane by the which we may haue vniō cōmunion with him Of the Churche D. For so muche as wée haue spoken of God and of his workes there remaineth yet that thou tell me what thou haste to say concerning the Church A. I vnderstand the Churche to be the companie of all those whiche are vnited and ioyned to Iesus Christe thorowe true faith in him as membres of his body by the vertue of the holy Ghost whiche is the true and very bande of that vnion and cōiunction D. Vnderstandest thou that they be the true Church which are sanctified and consecrated to God by true faith in suche sorte as thou hast euen now sayd That is the very cause for the whiche she is called holye and the communion of Saintes Of the things whiche we ought to beleeue of the Churche D. Which be the principall poyntes that we ought to beléeue concerning the church A. We may well bring them into two D. Which is the first A. It is that there is a Churche that is to say one such companie and communaltie as I haue euen nowe spoken of vnited by the spirite of God of the whiche all the faithful which are thorow out the world are true membres D. And the second A. It is touching the benefites of Iesus Christ whiche are communicated to this holy companie by the vertue of the holy Ghost Of the benefites of Iesus Christe towardes his Churche D. Whiche be these benefites A. Wée maye againe consider them in two sorts D. Howe may that be A. The firste is in the possession of the same into the whiche we doe enter being euen here in this worlde D. And the seconde A. In the full enioying and consummation that we shall haue in the other lyfe Of the possession of the benefites of Iesus Christ in the church during this lyfe D. What vnderstandest thou by the possessiō that we haue alredie in this world A. That euen as ther is no saluatiō out of the Church so al they that are true members of the same do there find perfect saluation the which we do fully comprehende in the Simbole of the Apostles vnder the remission of sinnes D. For what cause is that done A. Bycause it comprehendith the agrement which we haue with God and the iustification by the which we are holden for iust in his sight from whence then afterwarde procéede the other benefites whiche are also communicate vnto vs by Iesus Christ Of the consummation of the benefits of Iesus Christe D. What vnderstandest thou by the consummation of these benefites A. That same eternal and blessed life in the which we shall liue eternally with him in the kingdome of God in body and soule being fully regenerate and reformed to the Image and likenesse of him Of the frutes and effects of the lawe and of good vvorks D. Now that we haue spoken of faith and of the principall points to whiche she hath regard tell me if this faith be sufficiente to saue vs A. Yea in dede if it be true and not fayned D. Nede we then not to do good works to be saued A. Albeit that we can do no workes of our selues by the which we may deserue any thing other thā eternall damnation it followeth not for all that but that we be bounde to do the good works whiche God requireth of vs. D. Thou art not then of minde that faith doth abolish good workes A. So farre of is it from abolishing them that on the cōtrary there is nothing that doth more establish them but not to séeke mans saluation in them D. Howe vnderstandest thou this A. Euen as faith which is a very gifte of God is giuen vs to obtayne by the same remission of all our sinnes by Iesus christ she hath also this vertue that through hir man is regenerate and made like to the image of God to obey him according to his lawe where before he hath bin a rebell against him D. Wilte thou then saye that faith is not true faith if she be not declared by works which God requireth of vs in his lawe A. It is fayth as the fire that is without heat and light is fire Of the good workes which God requireth of the faithfull D. Séeing the matter is so tell mée then in bréefe what works god requireth of vs in his law to testifie of our fayth as well towards him as towards men A. Wée may comprehend them all summarily in two points D. Which is the first A. The inuocation of the name of god D. The secōd A The charitie towards our neybor Of the inuocation of the name of God. D What things comprehendest thou vnder the inuocation of the name of God A. I do comprehende thrée in taking it generally as I take it here D. Whiche is the firste A. The supplication and prayer whereby we haue recourse to God in all our necessities D. The second A. It is thankesgiuing wherby we acknowledge the goodnesse that wée haue receyued of him D. The thirde A. It is the profession and confession of our faith and religiō by the which he wil be aduowed and glorified in vs towards al men as our God. Of the sum of the first table of the law De. It semeth to me that these thre points conteyne as it were a sūme of all the first Table of the lawe A. If we adde therevnto faith which is the true fountaine of all these things this summarie shal be full and perfecte D. How so A. For that that it shall comprehende the manner how God will be serued and honored of vs as well in harte as in word and in outward works Of the summe of the second Table D. What doth the charitie towarde our neighboure comprehende A. We may in like sorte bring it all into two pointes D. Which is
soule from the whiche sinne cheefely doth procéede For the bodie shoulde not sinne at all if sinne were not firste in the soule M. Why sayst thou so P. Forsomuch as the body is but as it were the instrument of the soule by the whiche she worketh and dothe hir workes wherfore if there be faulte in the worke the faulte maye not be attributed to the instrument but rather to the woorker whiche worketh or else if there bée faulte in the instrumente it is greater in the woorker whiche woorketh euill Mathewe Thou wilte then conclude that it was necessarie that Iesus Chryste shoulde suffer for vs not onely in bodie but also in soule Peter He hathe righte well declared it when he sayde My soule is heauie euen to deathe and when he did sweate bloud in great abundance euen for very sorrowe and anguishe that he felte in his soule in the whyche hee hathe suffered more than in his bodie for so muche as he bare the iudgemente of God in the same chéefly whyche the bodye coulde not apprehende but in as muche as the féeling of it is come to it by the meane of the soule Mathew The passage whiche thou haste euen now alledged séemeth to me very cleare and plaine against those whiche estéeme the Godheade of Iesus Chryste to bée in steade of his soule Peter Iesus Chryste hym selfe hathe yet more confirmed that which thou sayest when he yelded vp his spirite vppon the Crosse and that he sayde Father I commende my soule into thy handes M. This passage sheweth playnely that by the death of Iesus Christ there was a very separation of spirite and bodye and so consequently of the soule for so muche as the spirite is also taken for the soule P. The matter is very plaine For if the diuinitie of Iesus Christ had ben in stead of his soule without a very humane soul he could not haue died of a very humane death forsomuch as it can not dye except there be very separation of bothe bodye and soule in man. The nynth Dalogue is of the offices of Iesus Christ Of the signification and exposition of the name of Christ and of his offices the whiche that name doth comprehend MATHEVV I Do now wel vnderstād all the matter which thou hast nowe handled ther resteth that thou expounde vnto me that which thou hast to say yet concerning the office of Iesus Chryste P. Forsomuche as we haue alredy spokē largely inough when we did speake of the meane by the which man is deliuered from sin made agréed with God that whiche we haue already sayd may serue vs much to that whiche yet resteth to be spokē of M. What wilt thou then say more P. We haue nothing here to consider but only that whiche the name of Iesus Christe doth importe M. And what doth it import P. First he is called by the name of Iesus which signifieth Sauior to admonish vs that he was sent vnto vs from the Father to saue vs and that we may haue saluation by none other but by him only M. And what importeth the name of Christ P. Thrée offices whiche belong vnto him for whose cause he is called by that name M. Whiche be these offices P. The office of a prophet of a king and of a Sacrificator M. What signifyeth then the name of Christe whiche comprehendeth so many things P. It signifieth anointed and bicause that in the auncient Churche of Israell the Prophets kings and sacrificators were annoynted by the ordinance of God in testimonie of their vocation and office they were called by that name and in like wise bycause they were true fygures of the very anoynted of the Lorde which is the very sonne of God whyche was anoynted by the holy Ghoste who was giuen to him withoute measure aboue all other men M. Thou wilte then say that Iesus Christ is also named with that name aswell bycause of the same vinction as bycause that all those offices were enioyned to him by the father P. It is euen so Of the office of a Prophete of Iesus Christ and of the per fection of his doctrine M. SHewe me nowe what euery one of these offices importeth and begin by his office of Prophete Peter As concerning hys office of Prophete hée is not onely a Prophete as those whiche in the Scriptures are called by that name but of an other sorte muche more excellent M. What is the difference that thou there puttest P. I finde there difference chiefly in two points M. Whiche is the firste Peter It is that God hathe not spoken in his Church in the person of Iesus Christe onely in the manner that he hath heretofore spoken by his Prophets in sundry sortes more couert and darke but hath spoken by his owne Sonne plainly and with an open face and hathe shewed vnto vs by him the doctrine of saluatiō so fully and perfectly that we may not attende any other perfection in thys worlde as touching that pointe M. Thy meaning is then that seeing Iesus Christ is come vppon earth he hath brought the doctrine requisite in his Churche so perfecte that no man may adde any thyng more therevnto and that none ought frō that time foorth to loke for any more ample and perfecte reuelation and manifestation of the wil of God. P. Sainct Iohn doth witnesse it vnto vs when he saithe that no man euer sawe God but the sōne which is in the bosom of the Father hath declared him vnto vs For this cause Iesus Christe him selfe hath saide that he hath declared to his disciples all that whiche he hath hearde of his Father Of the povver and efficacie of the ministerie of Iesus Christ and of that vvhich he giueth to the ministerie of others M. WHiche is the other pointe that thou hast yet to expounde concerning the difference whereof thou hast made mention touching the office of prophet of Iesus Christ P. It is that Iesus Christ is not a Prophete hauing none other power but to shew foorth the worde of God by mouth as the other ministers of the same do But beside that he hathe the power to imprinte the same in theyr hartes by the vertue of his holy spirite and to giue it vertue and efficacie in thē M. Thy meaning is then that the other prophets and ministers of the worde of God haue not that power P. Not of them selues but so farre foorth as Iesus Christ doth worke in them and in their ministerie by the diuine power of his holy Spirite And therefore when he commanded his Apostles to go and preache the Gospell and did giue vnto them power to pardon retaine sinnes by him he foorthwith gaue vnto them the holy Ghost brething vppon them in token of the same and afterwarde did send him to them vppon the daye of Pentecost after that he was ascended into Heauen M. I thinke that that whiche thou saist is the cause why Sainct Paule sayd he that
Chryste thorough faythe after that GOD by the same hathe iustified vs by his holye Spirite in Iesus Chryste oure Lorde he dothe also sanctifye vs communicating vnto vs his gyftes and Graces whyche are the frutes of Faythe to the ende that we shoulde bée dedicated and consecrated vnto hym all the dayes of our lyfe to serue and honour hym as hys childrē regenerate by his holy spirite into a newe life Ma. Thou doest reporte faith to iustification and charitie to the worke of sanctification whiche are both works of the holy Ghost P. Thou maiest vnderstand it by the discourse whiche we haue already made of iustification and sanctification In vvhat sorte charitie is necessary to saluation M. CHaritie is not then necessarie to saluation nor other like vertues but faith only P. It is necessary there vnto and not necessary M. I do not well vnderstand this speache for it is contrary in it selfe P. I say that faith is necessary therevnto as cause of saluation withoute the whiche we cannot obtayne it for the causes which I haue alredy declared For somuch as it is the instrument the whiche the holy Ghoste giueth vs wherewith to receiue him when he is offered vnto vs by Iesus Christ and the meane whereby he doth communicate him to vs in hym and by him But charitie is not there ioyned as a cause of saluation without the which we cannot be partakers of it but as a thing ioyned vnto it the whiche followeth faith in suche sorte whiche is the true cause of saluation as I haue already sayde that she cannot be separate no more than the heate from the lighte or the mouing or féeling from the life and from the soule But yet notwithstandyng we haue not saluation thereby no more than brightnesse by the heate the whiche we haue of the lighte or else life by the motion and féeling M. Charitie then and good workes may not be taken for causes by the which or by whose meane we obtaine saluation but onely so farre as they cannot be separated frō true faith by the which we ar made partakers of it P. It is euen so M. Thou hast here opened vnto me one point that was very harde to vnderstande the whiche séemeth to me very well worthy to be diligently noted For there bée fewe whiche do well vnderstande it Peter If all men did well vnderstande it there woulde be no more differente betwene the Christians touching iustification and touching faith and workes and grace and merites and the causes of oure saluation for that whiche we haue sayde of charitie is also vnderstoode of all the other vertues and workes of the regenerate man as I haue alredy sayde whiche are the frutes the which Saincte Paule doth call the frutes of the spirite and the which he doth oppone to the frutes of the flesh Of the regeneration of a Christian man. M. SEing that thou arte lighted vppon the pointe of regeneration me thinketh that it should be also comprehended among those giftes of the holy Ghost the which thou sayest do belong but to the elect of God and be so necessarie to saluation that none may attayne vnto it without them P. It must be so vnderstoode for it is of the chiefe of them and in very déede it is the principall pointe whiche maketh vs to vnderstande the cause why we do cal worke of viuification and sanctification that thirde worke of God whereby we say that God hathe declared himselfe vnto men Ma. Expounde the same to me somewhat more plainely P. Thys worde of regeneration as thou mayest well vnderstande emporteth as muche as a man moughte saye newe birth as if after that we are once borne we are borne yet agayne Mathevve I sée well that the worde of regeneration importeth euen so Peter And therefore it importeth foorthwith a reformation of the man whiche is a rising agayne from the deade whiche is wroughte in the Spirite as the last resurrection shall be wroughte in the fleshe Mathevve What meanest thou by that resurrection of the Spirite Peter Séeing that thorough sinne man is deade of spirituall death whiche bringeth afterwarde death of the body he is as it were risen from that deathe when by Iesus Christe he is in suche sorte delyuered from sinne that he is by the vertue of hys holye Spirite made as it were a manne thoroughly newe or as a manne who hauinge béene deade shoulde haue recouered hys lyfe and shoulde bée raysed agayne Mathevve Thou puttest then so great difference betwene the man whiche abideth still in his firste nature corrupted through sinne and hée which is deliuered from the same corruption and is quickened and regenerated by the holy Ghoste as thou puttest betwene a dead and a liuing man. P. There is no difference but in asmuch as the spirituall death is much more worthy to be called death than is the corporall death and that the estate of the man dead thorough sinne is much more perillous and daungerous than is the estate of the man which is dead but bodily Of the life of the regenerate man. M. Séeing that man is as it were risen from death and borne a new when he is regenerate by the holy Ghost it followeth then necessarily that he do other works after that he is regenerate than he did before his regeneration P. Thou mayest wel vnderstand that if there be so greate differēce betwene the mā regenerate the not regenerate as is betweene a dead and a liuing man it must also necessarily come to passe that there bee as great difference betwene the workes of the one and the other M. I do euen so vnderstand it P. And therfore Iesus Chryst hath sayd that what is borne of fleshe is fleshe and what is borne of the spirite is spirit For euen as a dead bodie can bring forth but infection and corruption euen so on the contrary a liuing body doth the works of lyfe bicause of the liuing soule that he hath more than hath the dead bodie M. It foloweth then that the faith wherby man is viuified and regenerate is vnto him as the soule which bringeth to him spiritual life and that the vnfaithful and not regenerate man is as a body without a soule P. S. Paule following the prophet Abacuk giueth thée playnly to vnderstand that it is so by that whiche he sayth The iust man shall liue of his faith Wherefore if the iust man do liue of his faith it followeth then that Faith is to his soule to giue it spirituall lyfe that whiche the naturall soule is to the bodie to giue it corporall lyfe Mathevv There are then two things to be considered in the regenerate spiritual man to wit Faith which is in him as the soule whiche giueth him spiritual lyfe euen as the soule naturall which giueth corporall lyfe to the body then the workes of the spirite are ioyned to it which are the works of faith which is the spiritual soule euen as the works of life
that a man mought finde in all things if the feare of God goodnesse iustice and holynesse be wanting P. Thou concludest very well And therfore Iesus Christ sayd to hys Apostles whiche did glory bycause the deuills were subiect to them by meane of the gifte of miracle which was giuē to them Reioice not saide he in that that the spirites are subiecte to you but reioyce in that that your names are writtē in Heauen M. What meaneth he thereby Pe. That they should much more estéeme the fauoure whiche God had shewed vnto them in that that he had chosen them to bée his children and heires and that hée had made them partakers of the giftes by meane whereof they haue obtayned such a benefite than in that that he gaue them the gifte of miracles yea indéede than in that that he made them Apostles For Iudas was chosen an Apostle and had the gifte of prophecie and of miracles as we haue alredy sayde but for that he was not of the true chosen which were chosen to be the children of God the gifts which he had receiued of him serued him not but only to more greiuous condemnation And therefore Iesus Christe did call hym Deuill bycause he had not those other more excellente giftes of God by whiche he moughte haue béene reformed to hys Image as the other Apostles were M. Thou touchest here thinges whyche doo well deserue to be noted to the ende that we please not our selues nor glory at all but in the grace that God doth shewe vs in Iesus Christe Peter For that cause Saincte Paule dothe also witnesse that if a man had the gifte of tongues in so great perfection that he could speake the very language of Angells and although he coulde by the gyfte of miracle remoue mountaines from one place to an other yet notwithstanding it should be nothing if he had not charitie the which doth testifie that there is true faith in the man that hath it but also maketh the man like vnto God insomuch as Sainct Iohn saith he is charitie it selfe The thirtenth Dialogue is of the Churche and of the ministerie of the same MATHEVV I Do now well vnderstande the difference that thou puttest betwene the giftes of the holye Ghost and how much some are more excellent and more necessarie and more to be desired than others And therefore if thou haue no more to saye at this presente neyther concerning his person ne yet his gyftes it séemeth to me that it shall be good that we speake nowe of the Churche whereof wée haue not yet spoken Peter It is one of the chiefe pointes whiche we haue yet to handle For the Churche is the same wherein God dothe open all the treasures of hys graces and gyftes whereof we haue euen nowe spoken and for whose sake he giueth them to whome he giueth them Mathevv Shewe me then what the Churche is Peter If wée take the name of the Churche in generall it signifieth assemblie or companie but when we speake of the Churche of God we take it not only for an assemblie and companie of all sortes of people but for a companie and assemblie of men the whiche GOD hathe chosen from others and hathe consecrated and sanctifyed them vnto himselfe in his Sonne Iesus Chryste by hys holye Spirite Mathevve Is that the cause why she is called holye Peter Yea and why she is also called the Communyon and Communaltye of Sainctes For there is none other communaltie or companie whiche is holye and is gouerned and guyded by the Hollye Ghoste but onelye thys whyche dothe acknowledge Iesus Chryste for hir onelye Heade King Sauioure and redéemer M. Which be those Sainctes whereof she is called the communion P. They be all the true faithfull whiche by faith are made members of Iesus Christe whiche is the holy one of holy ones the whiche hath giuen his holy spirite to his Churche to sanctifie it And therefore Saincte Paule dothe call all Christians Saincts Of the sanctifieng of the Church and of the members of the same M. BY what meane is it that God dothe sanctifie hys Churche to hymselfe by his holy Spirite P. By faith in hys Sonne Iesus Christ by the whiche she is vnited and ioyned to him as is the body to his head Wherefore she is also a partaker of the same very soule which is in the head the whiche giueth it corporall life For the head liueth not by one soule and the rest of the body by an other but do lyue bothe by one very soule forsomuche as the head and all the members of the body are but one body and not sundrye Mathevve Séeing it is so none maye then bée of that holy companie and assemblie but those which haue true faithe in Iesus Christe and whiche for that cause are called faithfull Peter It is easie to vnderstand M. Séeing that they haue faithe they are all then also made partakers of the giftes of the holie Ghost the whiche thou hast sayd are proper to the only electe of God and without the which men maye not be accompted for gods children and be heires of the heauenly glorie Pe. Thou mayst thereof iudge by that whiche we haue alreadie heretofore sayde to this purpose and by consequent thou mayste also iudge what is the estate of such which by their incredulitie are withoute and shut from that holie assemblie and companie Of the ministerie of the Churche and of the gifts necessarie to the same M ANd which is the meane to attaine to that faithe by whiche the faithful are receiued into that holy companie and be in the same incorporate into the body of Iesus Christ as mēbres of him P. It is by the ministerie of the word of God according to the saying of Saincte Paule that faith is giuen by the hearing of the same M. Is that the cause why the same Apostle sayde that God hath giuen to his Church some Apostles some Prophets others Euangelists and others pastors and Doctors for the establishment of the Saintes to the worke of administration for the buylding vp of the bodie of Chryst vnto the tyme that wée come all into the vnitie of the faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God to be a perfect man according to the measure of the full age of Chryste P. Beside that whyche thou sayest thou hast yet to note that S. Paule meaneth not by these words that Chryst giueth only men to his Churche whiche maye haue these offices but also that he giueth them gifts méete for them wherby they may wel exercise them M. Séeing it is so these guiftes of the holie Ghost which thou hast sayd that God did distribute not only to the faithful but also oftentymes to the vnfaithfull are necessarie for his Churche Peter There be of them that are so necessarie vnto it that the Churche can not be a Churche without them and therfore they be euer in hir But there be others without the
sorte as wée eate the breade and drinke the wine which represent them vnto vs P. If there were none other reason but that which may be gathered of that which I haue euē now spoken it mought suffice vs to discharge our heads of all such imaginations M. I doe not well vnderstand yet what thou meanest herein P. Seing that Iesus Christe hath ordeyned one seuerall signe to signifie his body and an other seuerall signe to signifie his bloud and that it hath pleased him so to discerne them the one from the other the better to represent to vs how his bloud was separated from his body for vs in such sorte as his life and soule was separated likewise it should also followe that his body must be eatē a parte as we there eate the breade and there drink the bloud a parte as we there drinke the wine M. If it were so we shoulde not haue in the Supper the liuing body of Christ but dead and other thā he is raigning in heauen where his bloud is not separated frō his body P. Thou sayest truth But thou hast yet to note that if the body and bloud of Iesus Christ were giuen vs to nourish and mainteyne vs in this corporall life as is bread and wine we shoulde then also eate the body and drinke the bloude of Christe corporally as we doe eate and drinke the corporall breade and wine But forsomuche as they are giuen vs for spirituall nouriture we must eate and drinke them spiritually M. What doest thou call to eate and drinke spiritually Peter To speake properly to eate and drinke is vnderstoode of the body and of the bodily meate and drinke but when we speake of spirituall thinges we take those wordes for a figure by the whiche we declare the spirituall thinges by the bodily thinges bycause of the similitude and agremente that they haue togither M. Why is that done P. To the ende that by the similitude and comparison of corporall thinges we moughte the better vnderstande the spirituall things Of the true spirituall eating and drinking M. DEclare this to me yet somewhat more plainely Peter Thou mayest well vnderstande that the soule and the Spirite do neyther eate nor drinke corporally and materially as dothe the bodye Mathevve I doe well vnderstande at the leaste that they haue neither mouth nor téeth nor stomackes nor bellies corporall whereby they may do the same P. And therefore it must néeds be that if the soule and the spirite do eate and drinke they eate and drinke in an other sorte than doth the body the whiche is proper and agreable to their nature M. There is reason in that whiche thou sayest P. And on the other side thou mayest well knowe also that the flesh of Iesus Christ is neyther eaten nor chawed neyther is swalowed downe into the stomacke and bellie neyther is it digested as is the corporall and materiall meate M. For what cause is it then that Iesus Christ hath vsed that manner of spéeche saying he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud hath eternall life P. It is to giue vs the better to vnderstande the communion and coniunction whiche we haue with him and how that his flesh and his bloud do the very same towarde the soule and also toward the body touching the spirituall life being receiued with a true and liuing faith as do the bread and wine towards the body touching the bodily life whē they are bodily eaten dronken The sixtenth Dialogue is of the transubstātiation cōsubstantiation and of the true presence of Iesus Christ in the Supper Of the error of transubstantiation and hovv the Supper cannot be a Sacramente if the bread and the vvine do not there remayne in their proper substance MATHEVV HOw is it that men do eate the flesh of Iesus Christ and do drinke his bloud as thou hast euen nowe saide It is to bée vnderstoode that the breade and the wine be transubstantiate and conuerted into them or else that they be ioyned and vnited with the bread and the wine P. For the firste there is no reason eyther to thinke or saye that the breade and the wine be conuerted or chaunged into the body and bloud of Iesus Christe M. For what cause P. Bycause that if the bread the wine did not remayne still in the supper bread and wine in their proper substance they shoulde not be the signes of the body of the bloud of Iesus Christe but if they were conuerted into the same they shoulde be the selfe same thing the which they oughte to signifie and represente vnto vs. M. What inconueniente should there be in that P. There shoulde be this inconuenient in it that the supper should be a Sacramente withoute signe and so shoulde it haue no Sacramentall signe without the which the Sacramēts may not be Sacraments Of things vvithout the vvhich the sacraments cannot be sacramēts M. HOwe vnderstandest thou that P. Thou must note that a Sacramente cannot be a Sacramente excepte it haue at the leaste thrée things whiche are of the proper substance of all Sacramens M. Whiche are these thrée things P. The firste is the worde of God which is the foundation of all the Sacraments M. And the seconde P. The visible and materiall signes such as God hath ordeyned by that very word M. And the third P. The thinges signified aswell by that word as by the signes Of things vvhich are to be considered in the vvord of God in all Sacraments and in the signification of the same M. DEclare vnto me that whiche thou sayest by some similitude P. Séeing that we be vppon the matter of the Supper thou hast firste the worde of Iesus Christ in the which thou hast to note two pointes M. Whiche be they P. The first is the commandement which Iesus Christe there giueth to take and to eate the bread to drinke the wine which are giuen in the same M. Which is the secōd P. The promise whereby he declareth what it is that this bread and wine do signifie and for what cause he hath ordeyned and commaunded to receiue them and what frute we must looke for of them Math. Wherevpon takest thou thys promise Pe. Vppon that whiche is saide of the breade This same is my bodye whiche is broken for you and in like sorte vppon that whiche is spoken of the wyne Thys cuppe is my bloude or the newe Testamente in my bloude whiche is shedde for you doe this in remembraunce of mée Math. Muste wée vnderstande the lyke of all the other Sacramentes to witte that they haue commandemēt and promisse from God Peter There is no doubte thereof Ma. What is there more yet to cōsider cōcernyng the worde of GOD P. There is nothing more to be consydered concerning that same exteriour worde whyche is pronounced by the mouth of the mynisters Math. What resteth there yet more Peter That which is signified by the woorde the whiche doth also declare the signification
in the death and passion of Iesus Christe and the true and spirituall cōmunion that we haue by the same with all the giftes and graces of the same The second is to yelde thankes vnto him and to giue testimonie of oure faith towards him of our charitie which we haue towards our brethrē and of the vnion with his Church The third to represente to vs by the breade and wyne whyche are there distributed the whole and perfecte spirituall nouriture whiche wée haue by the meane of the bodie flesh and bloud of Iesus Christ to the end that we maye be spiritually nourished into eternall lyfe according to the benefit whiche we haue already receyued by our regeneration whereof the Baptisme is to vs as a Sacramente in the whiche wée haue in the Supper as it were a guage of oure resurrection the whiche wée doe beleeue and wayte for Wherfore euen as the breade and wyne be there giuen to vs visibly and bodily euen so are the bodie and bloud of Iesus gyuen to vs in déed but inuisibly and spiritually by the mean of faith by the vertue of the holy Ghost for he is the meane by whiche wée haue true Cōmunion and true vnion with Iesus Christ and all hys Church the which is his bodye whereof all true Christians are membres Of the signification of the signes of bread and wyne in the Supper and of the agreemente and difference of them with the things that they signifie and of the error of the popish transubstantiation Chap. 40. WE then take the breade the wyne not for the propre body and bloud of Iesus Christe and the very naturall substance of them as if the breade and wyne were transubstantiate and conuerted into that very bodie and bloud to eate and drinke them bodyly and carnally or to worship them as Idols in steade of Iesus Christ as the Papists doe no more do wée take them only as common breade and wyne but we holde them as very signes of that body and bloud which were giuen for vs to death and of the whiche we are spiritually made partakers in dede according to the testimonie which Iesus Christ yeldeth vnto vs by his word in this holy Sacramēt in the meane while the bread and the wine do no more chaunge substance nor qualitie in the same thā doth the water in baptisme or the waxe wherein the seale of the Prince is imprinted also as the body and bloud of Iesus Christe are not naturally nor bodily conioyned with them but only in manner whiche is proper to sacraments that manner is such that albeit the signe be not the thing it selfe which it doth signifie yet is it not without the same whiche is communicated to the faithful spiritually in this Sacramente euen as the signe is administred vnto thē corporally by the meane which hath bene aboue spoken of Of the commemoration of the sacrifice of Iesus Christ in the Supper Chap. 41. ON the contrary we oughte to be assured that this holy Sacramente was not ordeyned to make a Sacrifice in the which Iesus Christe should be offered againe for the redemption of soules as well liuing as dead but to make commemoration of the sacrifice the which Iesus Christe himselfe hath made once of hys owne body and bloud by the whiche he hath once bought and sanctified for euer all the children of god Wherefore he hath ordeyned this holy sacrament to refresh our memorie and to sturre vs vp by this meane to acknowledge him and to render him immortall thanks in waiting that in his last cōming he may appeare from heauen where he now sitteth at the right hande of God vntill the last day Of the Supper and of the Masse of the Papistes and of the principall pointes wherin it is different and contrary to the true Supper Chap. 42. SEing then that the institution of the holy Supper of the Lorde and the ende for the whiche it was ordeined is wholly ouerthrown in the Masse supper of the Papists it is plain that neither the one nor the other not only can not be accōpted for the Supper of the Lorde nor celebrated to suche an ende But ouer and aboue that who soeuer will be accompted a christian and a partaker of the true table of the Lorde maye in no wyse communicate nor assist neyther at the Masse nor Supper of the Papistes if hée wyll not communicate at the Lordes table and at the diuels table altogether For fyrste where Saincte Paule sayeth playnelye that wee must shewe the Lordes death in his Supper and that nothing be declared nor sayde in the Churche but in suche a toung as all men may vnderstand All is sayde in the Masse and supper of the Papiste in a toung which the poore people vnderstande not And they doe not declare vnto them the Institution of the holye Supper of the Lorde The whyche thyng is euen of as greate effecte as yf there were no worde of God at all séeing it is not vnderstoode Without whyche woorde the Supper can not bée the Supper Moreouer the signes are there so confounded with the things which they signifie that they be all one thing wherefore that is as much as to haue sacramēts without signes Thirdly the bread wine are there worshipped as Idols and as Gods newly made wherein there is not one idoll onely but two as if the bloude were separate from the body Fourthly they be there also offered in steade of Iesus Chryste in suche sorte as the masse is holden for a Sacrifice made for the redemption of soules It is holden also for a meritorious woorke whyche bryngeth Saluation vnto men as doth the Deathe and Passion of Chryste Fyfthely is that albéeit there be a certayne kynde of Communyon in the common Supper of the people yet in their Masses there is none at all For so much as the Préest whiche saith it maketh his supper all alone not admitting any one therevnto Wherefore such a supper may better be called an Excommunication than a communication For there is no communication nor communion where nothing is common and where one man alone taketh all that whiche should be distributed to al men in common Now then if there were none other faulte in the masse but only these fiue so muche lacketh it to be accompted the Supper of the Lorde that not only all the true vse of the same is there wholy ouerthrowen but also Iesus Christe is therein fully renounced by those whiche communicate there or beleue it And by the same meane the vertue efficacie of the death and passion of Christe is there vtterly of none effecte and abolished Of the proofe that euery man oughte to make of him selfe to communicate worthily at the supper and of the things required in the same Chap. 43. FVrder seing that the holy supper is ordeyned to suche an ende as hath bene alredy declared none may communicate in the same but to his condemnation which cōmeth
seconde P. Touching his humane nature M. And the thirde P. Concerning the vnion of the two natures Of the faith of the Christians concerning the diuine and humane natures of Iesus Christe M. WHat must we beléeue of his diuine nature P. That he is very God without beginning and withoute ende of one essence with the father and that he is his eternall word wisedome M. And cōcerning his humane nature P. That he is very man hauing a very mans bodie of our fleshe of oure blend bones a very humane soule as other mē haue and that he was made in euery point like vnto vs sinne excepted Hovv the diuine and humaine natures vvhich are in the person of Iesus Christ do not make two Iesus Christs but one only M. WHat canst thou yet say of the vnion of these two natures beside that whiche thou hast alredy spoken when thou handledst the office of mediatoure of Iesus Christe P. It is that they be so vnited togither that they remayne alwayes in their very naturall in one very person M. What meanest thou thereby P. That being so vnited they make vs not two Iesus Christes to witte the one God and the other man but one only whiche is very God and very man togither in one onely person euen as the body and soule of man make one onely mā and one only person and not twaine M. This vnion of these two natures thē is very necessarie to oure saluation P. Thou maist well know that as well by that which we haue alredy sayd touching this matter as by the office whiche was assigned vnto Iesus Christ by his father For there is no one Iesus Christ whiche being but only God coulde haue saued man nor coulde haue dyed for them and an other being but only man might dye for them but coulde not haue power to saue them nor to beare the iudgement of God for their sinnes VVhether the diuine nature be in Iesus Christ in stead of the soule or else that he hath a very humane soule M. DOest thou meane by this that the diuine nature of Iesus Christe is in stead of a soule to the humaine nature P. If the diuine nature were in stead of a soule to the humane nature and that Iesus Christe had no very humane soule he should be no true and perfect man. M. For what cause P. Bicause that the principall parte of man whiche is the soule shuld be wanting in him for this cause I haue saide heretofore that Iesus Christ was very man compounded of a very humane body and a very humane soule How the eternall worde of God became fleslie M. THou hast saide heretofore that Iesus Christ was the eternall worde of God. Now Sainct Iohn saith that that worde whiche is very God eternall became flesh Pe. What meanest thou by that Doest thou thinke that the same worde of God was conuerted into fleshe in suche sorte that it was no more the eternall worde of God but fleshe and that the Sonne of God which is that word of God being God before that time did so become man that he is no more God but man only M. Thou hast giuen me well to vnderstande by that whiche thou hast euen now said of the diuinitie and humanitie of Iesus Christ that we may not so thinke of him but bycause Saincte Iohn maketh mention but of the flesh when he saith that that word became flesh a man might thinke that he spake but of the body and not at al of the soule but that this worde of God vnited with the body was to it in stead of a soule P. If Sainct Iohn had mente so he wold rather haue said as it is elsewhere said in the holy scripturs that Iesus Christe had taken the séede of Abraham to witte our flesh and not the Angells M. Why is it then that he maketh mention but of the flesh seing that it is the least and most vile parte of man P. I can yeld vnto thee chiefly two reasons M. Which is the first P. It is bycause the holy Scriptures do take oft times a part for the whole And therefore it taketh now the flesh now the soule for the whole man complete M. Which is the seconde reason P. It is that when the holy Scripture doth vse the name of fleshe to signifie the whole man she vseth that manner of speach to admonish men of the infirmities that are in them to the end they may vnderstande that they are but men mortall and not Gods immortall M. Hath Sainct Iohn had regarde therevnto whē he said that the Sonne of God was made fleshe P. There is no doubt of it But it is in an other regarde For albeit that Iesus were very god as touching hys diuine nature that he toke our flesh without any spot of sinne when he was made mā that he hath vnited his diuine nature with the humane nature yet for al that he was so exempte frō all sin that notwithstāding he wold be subiect without sinne to al the infirmities and miseries wherevnto men are subiecte bycause of theyr sinnes M. Thou meanest then that thys worde of flesh emporteth all that same and that it doth better expresse in what manner and to what condition and ende the sonne of God did take our nature to him and was made man than if he had spoken otherwise P. It is euen so and therefore he doth also call himselfe so oftentimes the sonne of man to giue vs to vnderstande that he is not only a very naturall man descended of the race of Adam of the which al others are descended but also that he made himselfe subiecte to all the miseries and necessities of man whervnto men are subiect always excepted any spotte of sinne Of the conception of Iesus Christ and of the nature of his fleshe M. NOwe séeing that that humayne flesh which Iesus Christ hath taken for vs is exempte from all sinne where is then that he toke it Did he bring it from Heauen with hym or else did he take it vppon the Earthe P. When thou confessest that hée was conceiued of the holy Ghost and borne of the virgine Mary thou confessest that he toke it vppon earth in the wombe of that holye virgin M. But coulde he not haue passed thorow the womb of the virgin with a heauenly fleshe withoute taking any thing of hir fleshe P. If he had brought from heauen that flesh which he hath and that it were a flesh of a heauenly and diuine nature which he should not haue taken in the wombe of the virgin and of the proper fleshe and bloud of hir we could not say truly that she had conceyued and borne him and consequently that he were very man of oure proper fleshe and bloud whiche we haue of oure first father Adam VVherevnto the genealogie of Iesus Christe according to the fleshe dothe serue vs. M. I Thinke S. Mathew and S. Luke woulde giue vs to vnderstande
therfore man shall leaue father and mother and shall sticke to his wyfe If ther be great difference betwene the nature of the man and of the woman and that of other liuing creatures cōcerning the very bodie the difference is yet much more greate concerning the soule forsomuche as the other lyuing creatures were not created to the image and lykelynesse of God as man was wherefore they haue not a soule of a heauenly and diuine nature as he hath P. Thou séest then alredy here the vnion and communion of Nature that man and woman haue togither as well of body as of soule and the difference that is betwene them and all other liuing creatures in all these two pointes M. I do nowe vnderstande well this vnion and communion of nature whiche is betwene man and woman withoute the whiche they coulde not be allied togither by marriage as man and wife P. Thou oughtest in like sorte to vnderstande that we maye haue also no communicatoin with Iesus Christe if we haue not first the same communion of nature with him whereby he was made man lyke vnto vs as touching the nature and substance of the flesh M. I haue well vnderstood that which thou hast alredy sayde to that purpose concerning the communion of nature the whiche he hath of nature with vs and not at all with the Angells Of an other more speciall vniō and coniunction which is proper to marriage vvhich is betvvene Iesus Christ and his Churche M. NOw it is not inough to be vnited ioyned togither by mariage to be of one very humane nature that the one be masle the other femasle but it is also requisite that there be a more neare and a more speciall vnion and coniunction M What is that other coniunction P. It is a coniunction which is made by aliance by the whiche the man and the woman that are vnited ioyned togither by the same haue a speciall communion betwene thē the which the husbande hath not with other women nor the woman with other men M. I do wel vnderstand that ther is no suche coniunction and communion of body and goods and of al things among al other men and women that are not married togither as ther is betwene the man and the wife by the alliance and coniunction of marriage that is betwene them P. It is very true For this vnion and cōmunion is suche that the husbande hathe not power of his owne body but the wife as also the wife hath not power of hirs but the husband M. If there be such communion and coniunction of body there is no doubte but it is also of all good euill that may happē vnto thē togither P. It is euē so by the special cōmuniō which Iesus Christ hath with the faithful that the faithfull haue with hym by the power of the holy ghost which ioyneth thē with him by true lyuing faith M. Thou meanest then that there is so great differēce betwene the cōmuniō that is betwéen Iesus christ the faithful in respect of the vnfaithful as is betwen that which is betwene the mā the wife in respect of other mē womē P. It is euen so For the only cōmuniō of nature maketh not cōmuniō of body goodes betwene al men and women as doth the coniunction of marriage the whiche the husband the wife haue togither M. Thou wilt thē say in like sorte that the communion of nature the which Iesus Christ hath commō with all mē doth not carie with it such communiō of al things as doth that which he hath special with the faithful by means of the faith which thei haue in him P. the vnbeleuers haue nothing cōmō with Iesus christ but that thei ar mē of the same human nature but the faithfull haue this more which is the principall that all that they haue is common to Iesus Christ with them and that whiche Iesus Christe hath is common to them also M. What is it that Iesus Christe may take of them forsomuch as they be all none other than poore and sinfull men P. He taketh vppon him their sinnes and the paine whiche is due vnto them as though he himselfe had committed them and that he were guiltie to discharge and delyuer them M. He taketh then nothing of vs but onely the euill whiche is in vs P. What other thyng may he take séeing that there is none other thing in vs But the nature of the alliance and communion which we haue with him thorough faith bringeth it for otherwise ther should be no perfect communion and so the alliance shoulde not be full if there were no participation of good and euill suche as it shoulde and oughte to be among those whiche be allyed M. Then on the contrary it muste be following the nature of this communion and alliance that wée receiue of Iesus Christe the good things which are in him as he doth the euill that is in vs P. It is so to be vnderstode M. Behold a communion and alliance which is greatly to our aduauntage P. It is wholly to oure aduantage and therfore it should so much the more inflame vs in the loue of God and rauishe and carrie vs away in admiration of his goodnesse of Iesus Christ our Lord and of that most excessiue loue wherewith he hathe loued vs. M. That same communion is it the same that is in the Symbole of the Apostles vpon the whiche we are at this presente the communion of Sainctes P. It is the verye same And bicause it is made by the power of the holy Ghoste we will speake more largely of it when we shal speake of the holy Ghost and of the Churche How that Iesus Christe can not be the sauiour of mankinde vnlesse hee haue as well an humane soule as an humane bodie M. I Vnderstand now well by that whiche thou hast expoūded vnto me concerning the humane nature of Iesus Christ that wée could haue no saluation by him if he had not a verye bodie of oure fleshe and substance and that we were fleshe of his fleshe and bone of his bones and except we had suche alliance with hym as ther is betwene the husbād the wife But I would gladly that thou diddest shew me somthing more plainly the causes for the which it is also requisite for our saluation that Iesus Christe haue an humane soule as wel as an humane body P. Euen as we could not be saued if he had not suffered in our humane fleshe and borne the paine for vs whiche we haue deserued by our sinnes it is euen the like concerning the soule M. For what cause P. For bicause that if he had suffred but in our bodie in our flesh he should not then haue satisfied but in our flesh and in our body and for them only and not for the soule And so shoulde it haue come to passe the bodie should bée saued and not the
procéeding from the soule are in the liuing man. Peter Thou mayst well iudge that as the liuing man hath not onely lyfe but also mouing and féeling by the power of the soule that is in him euen so the mā regenerate by the spirite of God is disposed by the same to doe spirituall works which are the workes of lyfe where as he did the works of death whilest he was dead thorow sinne not being regenerate by the spirite of God. The twelfth Dialogue is of the giftes of the holie Ghost whiche are common to the elect and to the reprobates Of the gifts of the holie Ghost which mē may haue not be chosen of god and without the which the elect may be saued touching themselues MATHEVV I Doe nowe better vnderstande than before why thou doest call the thirde worke of God the whiche thou attributest to the holy Ghoste worke of viuification and for what cause the holie Ghost is called the quickning spirite There resteth nowe that we speake of other of his giftes whiche thou haste sayde maye serue to the Saluation of them whyche haue them not withoute seruing at all them whiche haue them to their saluation P. I will shewe thee by example that whiche thou askest we maye place in this ranke the gift of toungs the gifte of prophecie or preachyng the gifte of miracles and suche other lyke Math. Dothe GOD sometyme communicate these guifts vnto the reprobates and vnfaythefull Peter Thou doest not doubte but that hée dothe distrybute them to the electe and the faythfull when it pleaseth him Math. I may not doubt thereof séeing I haue the examples of the prophets and of the Apostles whiche witnesse it vnto me P. But albeit that these gifts be communicate to diuers of the elect and faithfull yet they are not giuen generally to all neither to euery one specially and as the others wherof we haue alreadie spoken and on the other syde they be not giuen in equall and one measure to all those to whome they be giuen For the one sorte haue them in greater number and greater abundance than the others M. Giue me example of that whiche thou sayst P. Saint Iohn Baptist was so excellente a Prophet that he was by Iesus Chryste preferred to all the other Prophets whiche were before him and yet wee reade not that he had the gift of tongues as the Apostles had M. It séemeth also to mée that it was not necessarie forsomuche as he was not sent but to those of his owne nation P. And therfore I say with Saint Paule that the holy Ghoste distributeth his giftes to euery man as is expediente for him But to come againe to S. Iohn Baptist no more had he the gifte of miracles For it is written of him playnly that he did none at all M. I thinke also that there were many of the Prophetes which had but the gift of prophecie without the gift of eyther miracles or toungs forsomuche as they did prophecie but in the Churche of Israel and among people which vnderstod their natural speach M. We fynd not many prophets that haue had the gift of miracles as had Moyses Elie and Elizee But the Apostles hadde bothe the gifte of prophecie miracles toungs and suche lyke Of the giftes of the holy Ghoste giuen to the wicked M. I I knowe nowe well by these examples in what sorte these giftes hée distributed to the faithfull albéeit they be not distributed to euery one in verye number and portion euen of those which are made partakers of them but thou haste not yet proued how these giftes are also somtyme bestowed vpon the reprobates and vnfaithfull P. I wil shew thée first the testimonie of Iesus Christ which sayth that many shal say vnto him at the later day Lorde Lorde we haue prophecied and driuen out diuels and wrought great effects in thy name vnto whom he shall saye I know you not depart from mee ye workers of iniquitie M. Peraduenture they shall boast them selues falsly of that whiche they neuer did Pet. To resolue this difficultie thou hast beside it the examples not onely of Balaam of Saule and of Cayphe whyche haue prophecied but also of Iudas vntoo whome not onely the gifte of prophecie and office of Apostle was giuen as it was to his other fellowes but also the gifte of miracles M. Howe mayst thou knowe for certayne if that Iudas hadde the gift of miracles Peter Bicause that when Iesus Chryste did giue it to hys Apostles Iudas was not put out of the number but was comprised in the number of twelue vnto whiche the Euangelistes witnesse that this gifte was giuen by Iesus Christe Math. That whiche thou sayest hath some apparance Peter And on the other side thou mayst not fynd it strange that the gift of miracles was giuen vnto him whiche is far lesse necessarie to the Churche than the gift of prophecie and office of Apostle For vvhat cause God sometime dothe cōmunicate to the wicked of the giftes of the holie Ghost the which he doth not cōmunicate to the electe M. SEing that these gifts be so noble so excellēt it abasheth me that God somtime distributeth them to the vnfaithful reprobate rather than to the faithfull elect For albeit that in the time of Balaam Saule Cayphe Iudas many of the faithfull and chosen were endowed with these gifts yet notwithstanding the greatest nūber of thē had thē not at al but had only those gifts which are proper and cōmon to al the elect and faithful P. It is true but thou muste note that God will haue it so chiefly for two causes M. whiche is the first P. It is that he will giue vs to know what difference we ought to put betwene these gifts to the ende that his elect mought know which ar the most excellent and what fauour he hathe shewed to them more than to the others in communicating them vnto them Math. Whiche is the other reason P. It is that God will shewe howe passyng excellent a woorker he is whiche can vse al instrumentes bothe good and bad yea the very diuels to make them serue to his glorie and to the edification and saluation of his Churche when it pleaseth him But seeing that he may well do by his elect that whiche he dothe by these wicked instruments why dothe he not rather this honour to his children than to his enimies P. He dothe no dishonour to his children but doth them great honor when he constrayneth the very wicked to serue them will they nill they M. There is a point wel worth the note P. On the other side he honoureth the enimies the more but putteth them to greater confusion and maketh them more inexcusable in so muche as thorough their owne fault they haue abused his giftes Of the giftes of God which are moste excellent and most to be desired M. FOr so muche as I can vnderstande by thée thou estéemest the first giftes whereof thou
regeneration to the ende that he may make it pure cleane withoute spotte or wrinkle and a holy and glorious Churche M. I did neuer yet so well vnderstande these two pointes nor yet the diuersitie and difference that thou hast made betwene the benefites of Iesus Christe and the Baptisme and the Supper whiche are Sacramentes as now I do vnderstande all these things In vvhat sorte the faithfull in baptisme do put on Iesus Christ and are vvashed vvith his bloud P. WHen I tell thée that the baptisme declareth vnto vs howe that Iesus Christe is set foorthe vnto vs in baptisme for a robe of innocencie Iustice holynes and that we cloth our selfe with him by meane of the same I do not thinke thée to be of so grosse an vnderstanding to thinke that the faithfull do put on Iesus Christ naturally and corporally as a man putteth on a garment or a cloke M. I should be very grosse if I so vnderstoode it P. How doest thou then vnderstand it M. That euen as a garmente or a cloke do serue to couer the body euen so do the innocencie iustice and holynesse of Iesus Christe serue vs to couer our sinnes at the iudgemente of God to the ende that there appere no one spotte of them in his sighte P. And touching the bloude of Iesus Christe doest thou thinke that oure soules and consciences be washed and made cleane in Baptisme as one would with water wash a body in a bath or ryuer or else shéetes in a bucke Mathevv Thou makest here with me goodly discourses I thinke there is none so beastly whiche doth not well knowe that the bloud of Iesus Christe is called the washing of soules and of consciences not as though they must be washed and dipped in the bloud of Iesus Christe as one woulde wash and dippe a body that he woulde washe and make cleane or some other suche like thing but that the holy Ghost speaketh so to giue vs to vnderstande that whiche thou hast sayde to witte what the water of baptisme signifieth concerning the washing and purification of our soules and consciences in the bloud of Iesus Christ VVhat greater reason there is to communicate corporally of the body and of the bloud of Iesus Christ in the Supper than in Baptisme P. THow doest aunswere me verye well but if thou find it strange that a man shuld say that they which are baptised haue put on Iesus Christ bodily as a garmente and are washed with hys bloud as with a materiall bath why shouldest thou not finde it as straunge or more straunge that a man should say that the body and the bloud of Iesus Christe are naturally and bodily eaten and drunken in the Supper as are the bread the wine which are the signes M. Thou makest me to consider somewhat more déepely of this matter than heretofore I did P. It is a matter well to be thoughte on For if that in Baptisme we haue no carnall communication with the body and bloud of Iesus Christ but only a spiritual I sée not what greter reason there is to haue rather in the Supper a carnal communication with him than in Baptisme considering that the supper dependeth of baptisme and that it is as a more ample confirmation of the possession of the benefites of Iesus Christe into the whiche wée beginne to enter by Baptisme and doe continue by the Supper M. I finde thy reasons very good P. Thou shalte finde them yet better if thou do consider how muche that grosse and carnall opinion doth disagrée as wel with the nature of the body of the bloud of Iesus Chryste as wyth the faith that we oughte to haue in his ascention into heauen and of his seate at the right hand of God and of his spirituall and diuine presence and vertue by the whiche he is euer present in his church and doth guide and gouerne it eternally Hovve the corporall and carnall presence of the bodie and of the bloud of Iesus Christ in the Supper greeth not with the true nature of them M. EXpounde this same vnto me somewhat more at large P. For the first to what purpose is it to thinke that the bodie of Iesus Chryst is chewed and eaten and sent into the stomacke and frō thence downe into the bellie as is the bread whiche signifieth it in the Supper and that his bloud is also drunken as is the wyne which is the signe For bée it that thou vnderstand that the breade and the wyne be conuerted into the substance of the bodie and bloud or else that the bodie be eaten with the bread and the bloud drunken with the wine yet is there still greate absurditie cleane contrary to the nature of the bodie and bloud of Iesus Chryste M. What contrarietie fyndest thou therin P. Séeing that Iesus Christ hath a very true naturall bodie in euery respecte lyke vnto oures as touchyng the corporall substaunce sinne excepte it is certaine and true that hée is not bodily and naturally not only in the heauen and in the earthe at one tyme but also neyther in infinite places For he hathe not a bodie whiche filleth the heauen and the earth as dothe his diuinitie but hathe a bodie whyche can not be a true and verie bodie if hée be not in some certayne place agreeable to his nature to his glorie and celestiall maiestie Hovve the glorifying of the bodie of Iesus Chryst doth not chaunge at all the substantiall nature propre substaunce of the same M. THou speakest of the bodie of Iesus Chryste as though he were in euery respecte like vnto oures and that he were not glorified at all as ours shall be also after the Resurrection of our bodies P. Albéeit that the bodie of Iesus be glorifyed by his Resurrection and Ascention into heauen yet followeth it not for all that that he hath lost the proprieties of his humane nature and that his corporall substance is chaunged in suche sorte that it is conuerted into diuine nature or that he is in suche sort transfourmed that he is infinite to be in euerye place or that he is so multiplied that for one bodie he hath many or an infinite number as necessarily it must be if the errour wherof wée nowe speake shoulde haue place Of the contrarietie that is betvvene the corporall presence of Iesus Chryst in the Supper and his ascention into heauen M. BVt they which maynteyn thye opinion say that these things maye not be considered naturally but supernaturally and that they do surpasse the capacitie of all mans vnderstanding P. I graunte them all that But why is it then that they forge vs a corporall and naturall presence of the bodie and bloud of Iesus Chryste in the stéede of a supernaturall and spiritual presence M. They say that the same corporall and naturall presence doth not at all hinder the supernaturall and spirituall Pet. Albeit that they saye it it doth not therfore followe that it is so And on the other syde I
of man. P. But wilt thou denie that he is a very mā before he be come to that age M. I am not yet wel resolued howe to answer thée to this demaūd P. It shal be easy for thée to resolue if thou cōsider what it is to be a man what is his nature for thou canste not denie that who so hath an humane body a soule participāt of reason vnderstanding is a man. M. I graunt it P. No more canst thou denie that a chylde howe yong soeuer he be is compounded of suche a bodie and suche a soule notwithstanding that men do not yet sée in effecte in him so great a perfection of the bodie and of reason and vnderstanding and of other gifts as wel of the bodie as of the spirite as in a perfecte man. M. I do wel vnderstand that thou wilt say that albeit a child may grow both in bignesse force discretion prudence knowledge in such like vertues therby to attaine to greater perfection yet notwithstanding this same letteth not at all but that he is alreadie a very man. P. No for somuche as he hath in him all the partes that make a verie man and the séedes of all things required in mans nature notwythstanding that the frutes as yet appeare not for albéeit that a thing begone be not yet fully perfected it followeth not for all that but that the beginnings are true and sounde and that it is true and perfect forsomuch as is alreadie of it M. Thou wilt then saye in lyke sorte that albeit that repentaunce faith and charitie be not in vs so greate so perfect that no more may be wished for yet for all that they leaue not to be true and whole prouided that wée haue the true séedes therof in vs and the true beginnings of all the partes required in the same P. Thou hast very well cōprehended that whiche I would haue saide And forasmuch as all these things are alredy begon in vs by the grace of God we do dayly continue the reading of the Gospell and the administration of the Sacramentes to the ende we may daily growe more more in that which is alredy begon in vs and that we may be dayly the better confirmed to witte in true repentance and true faith charitie and in all the other gifts of god euen vntil the time that from the infancie in the whiche wée now are cōcerning these gifts and graces we do come euen to the age of a perfect mā and that we do therein dayly profite as the childe dothe dayly growe vntill the time that he be a perfect man. Hovv greatly necessarie the ministerie of the Church and prayer is for al men during this life M. I Am now wel resolued touching this pointe whereby I do conclude that there is in the world no man so perfecte who hath not alwayes néede of the ministery of the church of al the partes and things the which it comprehendeth P. I haue yet forgottē to tel thée that with the diligence that we ought to vse in the studie of the holy scriptures communiō of the sacramentes to the end the graces of god may be dayly encreased more more in vs we haue also the inuocation of the name of God prayer the which serueth vs greatly to that ende wherfore we ought therein to be very attentiue continuall M. Seing that thou art now come vpon the matter of inuocation prayer mée thinketh it were good that wée dyd speake somwhat amply of it For it séemeth to mée that we haue spoken very litle of it as in passing it ouer when that thou gauest me as in briefe the exposition of the commaundements of the law vpō the which thou didst briefly declare vnto mée how that those of the first table did comprehend faith the inuocation of the name of god which procéedeth from the same as the true frute and true witnesse of the Faith. Of the discipline of the church and of the principall partes of the same P. I Had determined to haue spokē somwhat more fully for so much as Iesus Christ hath giuen a certaine forme rule But bicause wée haue yet to speake of the discipline of the Church that it is so ioyned with the ministery of the same that it cānot bée wel ruled nor conserued without that discipline wée wil first speake so farre as the matter that wée handle nowe requireth it and then afterwarde we will conclude the whole by the inuocation of the name of God and by praier The. 20. dialogue is of the discipline censures and consistories of the Churche Of the discipline of the Church and of the principall partes of the same M. SEyng wée are come to the point of the discipline of the church declare vnto mée then what thou meanest by the same P. I vnderstande the gouernement and the rule by the whych God will that his Churche be gouerned according to the order which he hath ordeyned in it by his word to entertaine it in true religion and to take away slaunders M. What is that rule and that order Pe. There be chiefly thrée pointes to consider M. Which is the firste P. The regard that must be had to the doctrine assemblies of the Church to the end that the worde of God and the sacraments be administred as they ought to be aboue al things that do appertaine are requisite to the seruice of God. M. Whiche is the secōd point P. The regard that must be had to the life and manners of euery man. M. Which is the thirde P. It is not altogither of so greate importance for it concerneth only certaine exercises which sometime are required in the Church as are fastings other certaine ceremonies the whiche according to the necessities and circumstaunces of times and of places may serue for the better making of men to do their dutie and office to God. Of the chiefe things vvherevppon the discipline of the Church ought to vvatche M. SEing that thou sayest that the two first pointes be the most necessary declare vnto me the things the which are most to be considered in them P. Forsomuche as the word of God is ordeyned to teache admonishe comforte exhorte rebuke and to correct euery man as it shal be néedefull it is necessary that there be censures and watches in the Churche to watche and to take héede how euery man doth behaue himselfe as well in respecte of doctrine as of life and whereof euery man hath néede to prouide for the same as the word of God doth require Of the censures and ancients of the Church and of the maner of the policie of the same M. AL that whiche thou sayest doth it not belong to the office of the pastors and ministers which haue charge of the administration of the worde of God and of the Sacramentes and of all the Church P. I graūt it But there are chiefly two causes why it is
the least haue made no professiō of the christiā doctrine P. Yes vntill that they be recōciled to the church and receiued into the same in such sort as we haue heretofore saide and as it is behouefull to be done in suche a case M. I woulde aske thée also for what cause children are not to be as well admitted to the supper as to Baptisme by meanes of the aliance made with their parentes in the whiche they are comprehended but I knowe that thou wilte aunswere me in such sorte as thou hast hertofore done cōcerning the proof which is more specially required in the supper than in Baptisme P. Thou séest wel that the reason is therin sufficiently apparant M. Now seing it is so required that euery one proue himselfe before he come to the Supper and not that other men proue them may not the ministers committe it to the cōsciēce of euery one which present themselues to them to receiue this sacramente without making any other profe or inquisition P. Albeit that it be required that euery one particularly do proue himselfe yet notwithstanding that particular examination doth not let the examination and the proofe whiche the ministers and pastors oughte to make of their flocks to knowe not only which be shéepe and which not but also what is the condition and estate of euery one of their shéepe For if they know them not what accoumpt shal they yeld M. That is a good apparāt reason P. On the other parte if there be doggs and swine which will thorough their rashnes put forth themselues to the greate contempt of God and of his church to thrust in their poluted and filthy snoutes vppon the lords table to infect it with the same shall the minister be without blame if he permitte it and do not at the least his endeuoure to shut out suche doggs swyne frō the table of the Lorde M. There may be also many which although they do not deserue to be accoumpted dogs swyne but only for poore ignorāt and séely ones whiche mought notwithstanding go and thrust in with the rest either of custome or else thinking to do well and yet should go to their owne condemnatiō P. I wold also adde herevnto this point and in such a case the ministers shuld not be without blame of the faulte whiche those shoulde committe and of the perdition of them if that they had not firste done their indeuoure towardes them accordingly as they are bound Of confessiō of brotherly recōciliatiō M. I Would gladly vnderstande of thée if that after that a man haue proued himselfe in such sorte as thou hast alredy declared he haue no néede to cōfesse himselfe yet to some minister of the Church P. If he be confessed to God as he ought and be reconciled to such as he may haue offendid and with whome he may be at strife and enmitie he néedeth none other confession M. The proofe whereof thou hast spoken doth it conteyne all that P. Thou maist iudge by that whiche thou hast heard for the true repentaunce and faith and charitie cannot be without true confession and reconciliation towardes God and our neyghboure The. 23. Dialogue is of Supplication of Christian praier Of prayer and hovv it belongeth to none but to the faithfull and may not be addressed but to God. MATHEVV I Haue no more now to propone to thée concerning the pointes which we haue alredy handled There resteth nothyng now but that thou tell me yet that which thou hast to say touching prayer P. For somuche as prayer is a frute of faithe whereby the faithfull do homage to god and make request vnto him for all things which are necessarie as well for their body as for their soule men yeld thanks vnto him for all the good things which they haue alredy receyued of him it followeth then well that it is an honoure which belongeth not but only to God and cannot be yelded vnto him but by the faithfull M. It followeth then of that which thou saist that it is not lawfull to call vppon or pray to any other than to God. P. No at all if we will not giue the honoure which belongeth to him to creatures and his glory to others against his expressed cōmaundement M. Is it then Idolatrie to call vppon and to pray to any other than to God P. It is neither more nor lesse than to worship an other than he only Hovv that our prayers cannot be agreable vnto god vvithout a mediator and by vvhat mediator it behoueth vs to present them M. BVt seing we are all faultie before his maiestie may we haue accesse vnto hym withoute mediator or aduocate P. In no wise M. Why shall it not be lawfull for vs then to take one amōg the Saincts whiche raigne with God P. Forsomuche as we cannot haue accesse vnto him without a mediator aduocate it is not for vs to chose him at our pleasure but for him to giue such an one as he himselfe hath chosen and appointed M. He may very well know better than we what mediator and aduocate we néede and whiche is most agreable to him and most méete for vs. P. And therefore it is very reasonable that therin we be gouerned by him Now thou hast alredy vnderstood heretofore how he hath giuē vs his owne sonne to do that office in whome only we must repose if we wil not fully deny god and prouoke him to anger against vs in stead of appeasing him and reiecte Iesus christ his sōne the which he hath giuē vs. Hovv that none other aduocate nor mediator may be ioyned to Iesus christ vvithout greatly dishonoring of him M. BVt what inconuenient is it if that we take Iesus Christ for the principall mediator and aduocate by whome we are made at one with the Father and that then we take either mā saint or womā saint which raigne alredy in Heauen with him concerning their soules and spirites to be also our mediators and aduocates with him or else towards himselfe bycause of our vnworthinesse Pet. The same cannot be done without taking frō him the office whiche belongeth onely to him M. Why so P. Forsomuch as either he is sufficient for the office which the father hath appointed him or else he is not sufficient if he be sufficient then néedeth it not to appointe him a fellowe if he be not sufficiente he is not then the true annoynted of the Lord and the office which is appointed vnto hym belongeth not to him at all Mat. This were an horrible blasphemie not onely to speake suche wordes but to thinke them P. And therfore if we had none other reason but that that we haue not in all the holy Scriptures neyther commaundement nor example which doth commaund and teache vs we ought to take any other mediator and aduocate than Iesus Christ towarde the father but it is forbidden vs expressedly to take any other that same shoulde suffise vs seing that there is
to the children or people of Israel as though he gaue his lawe but to them onely the whiche notwithstanding euen as it hath bene sayde heretofore doth no lesse belōg to vs than to that people Wherfore I would gladly vnderstād the meaning of it and the causes and reasons for the which God did so set it forth wherein it belongeth to vs. D. You doe know well that when Kinges Princes make any Lawes and doe cause any statutes or ordinaunces to be published in their name they doe accustome to put some preface to it cōtayning their name and the titles wherby they declare what their Maiestie Lordship power is Seing then that God whiche is the chiefe King Prince of al creatures would publishe his Lawe was it not then méete that he shoulde declare that he was the Lawmaker and what was his maiestie power And therefore did he say I am the lorde thy God whiche haue brought thee out of the lande of Egipte from the house of bondage Then is it requisite before all other things to knowe in this lawe who is the true God and by what meanes he may be knowen and discerned and seperated from false Goddes that this knowledge goe before all the cōmandements folowing For who shall call vpon God who shall feare him who shall loue him who shal put his truste in him if that first he do not know him and not in such sorte as the heathen doe who although they had a certayne opinion that there was a God vpon whome it behoued them to call to feare to loue and to honour yet for all that they did not know who he was nor where to finde him And for so much as wée can not sée him nor discerne him with eyes nor with any other corporal sense yet notwithstanding wée must beholde him embrase him and speake vnto him from the harte and frō the spirite Of the name Eternal vvhich is Jehoua in Hebrevve giuen to God. T. WHerefore dothe he first call him selfe the Eternal D. He dothe declare in the Hebrewe tongue in the which Moyses hath writtē these things by the woorde of Iehoua the which we do so translate what is his beyng his nature that he is the Creatour of al creatures the first the last without beginning and without end and hath his being of none other but of him self of him all things haue their beyng are come from him and doe returne into him It is he by whom we liue moue are Thē may he lawfully say I am the whiche none els may iustly say Wherefore seyng that he is our Creatour so by consequent our guide gouerner that we haue of him our soule body and goodes is it not méete that we doe acknowledge him to be our King Prince Lord render to him the homage of soule of body goodes of all things els that we haue receyued of him to yelde vnto him perfect obedience For this cause the holy Scripture putteth vs in minde oftētimes of these things giueth to God the title of maker of heauen and earth Wherfore it must néedes be graūted that none other be our God but onely he vnto whom this name and title belongeth which is that Eternall essence that can doe all things and is the beginning the conseruation the end of all things In vvhat sorte God is generally called the God of all men and chiefely the God of his chosen people T. WHerefore doth he also say beside that Thy God D. Bicause that this first benefite is cōmon to all men to al creatures according to their nature in as much as he is creatour of thē all he addeth vnto it also this title to make him more amiable and fauourable vnto vs to the end that by that meane he may make his doctrine more acceptable vnto vs that he may make vs the more willing to receyue it as the doctrine of our father who by the same procureth nothing but onely our cōmoditie and saluation And therefore he doth not onely say God but thy God which is a maner of speach that according to the phrase of the holy Scripture carieth with it fauour grace For first the name of God the which Moyses here doth vse doth signifie in Hebrewe force forces to declare vnto vs that he hath the power to aide and helpe vs and that he is not onely God for him selfe to witte that he will kéepe in him selfe the good things that in him are and not to bestow distribute them but that his very office is to bestow thē vpō men to shewe him self gratious fauourable towardes thē When he doth the contrary being prouoked thereunto by their frowardnesse wickednesse he doth by his prophets call that worke a straūge worke Wherefore when he calleth him selfe the God of any people he declareth therby that he is not only their God as he is generally the God of all creatures as Creatour of them but that he is their God not seuere rigorous as a iudge toward euill doers but curteous louing fauourable merciful as a good father to his childrē When then he sayeth Thy God he doth then put thē in minde of that which he spake before that he had chosen this people as his own enheritance as a precious Iewell among all the rest And therefore it is not without cause sayd by the Prophete he hath done so to none other nation And therefore he sayth by Esaie And now saith the Lord thus which hath created thée Iacob who hath fashioned thée Israell feare not for I haue bought thée I haue named thy name Thou art mine When thou shalt passe by water I will be with thee the floudes shall not swallow thée vp When thou shalt passe through the fire thou shalt not be burnt For I am the Lord thy God the holy one of Israell thy Sauiour c. T. There is a goodly declaration of that which thou hast now spoken and a very apparant testimonie D. It is euen so For thou séest that after that he calleth him self the God the maker fashioner of Israell the Eternall he addeth vnto it immediatly Thy Sauiour whiche haue redéemed thée For vvhat cause God doth make expresse mention in the preface of his Lavve of the deliuerance of Israell out of Egipte T. ANd why doeth he adde yet which haue brought thée out of the lande of Egipt D. To put thē in minde of the great benefite the which not long before they had receiued of him and whereby he had plainely declared vnto them that he was their God and that he esteemed them for his people in an other sorte than he did the Egiptians wherefore they had good occasion to thinke that so good a God and so louing a father would not set forth vnto thē any doctrine but such as should be greatly for
punishment if there were no other thing in man we may wel thinke what it is that the other sortes do deserue which do daily aggrauate the euill and encrease it more continually Wherfore this originall sinne ought not to be estéemed a smal sin no more ought these buddes of concupiscence and the wicked affections as many do accompt them and chéefly the Papistes For the maiestie of God is so great that there is no rebellion what soeuer it be nor roote of rebellion wickednesse but it is a crime of treason agaynst the maiestie of god For God hath not only forbidden the act consent to euill but also the very concupiscence it self although that it do not procéede so far as to the consent as it appeareth by that which he sayd thou shalt not couet which shal be more plainly declared in his place Now it is méete that the punishmēt be giuē according to the nature of the sinne wherfore seing that God against whose maiestie the fault is cōmitted is eternal it is certē that there is no pain whatsoeuer it be that is sufficient for the punishmēt of an offēce cōmitted against the maiestie of suche a prince nor may satisfie for the dishonoring of the same for the case stādeth not with god as it doth with mā for so much as mā is mortal how gret a prince soeuer he be he may stretch extend his auctoritie no further thā vpō the earthly goods or body of the offender and according to the faulte by him cōmitted he taketh either his goods or his body if the worst fal he can take frō him but his body temporall life for so muche as his power extendeth no further but to this life and that the fault touching either his person or his office is but temporall as he is but God hath a reigne power which stretcheth further for it is eternall as he is And therfore the faults which are cōmitted against him are worthy of eternall punishment And therfore our sauiour Iesus Christ sayth that God hath not only power to sley the body as men haue but he is able also to sley both body and soule and then to cast bothe the one and the other into euerlasting fire which is ordeyned for eternall punishments Of the opinion of those which say that none shall be damned and of the abuse of the mercy of god and of the greatnesse of sinne and of the paine due to the same and of the wrath of God against it declared in the death of Iesus Christe and of the meane whereby to be deiluered from it and in what meaning we ought to vnderstand that God hath made no man to destroy or damne him T. THat which thou sayest is farre off from the opinion of suche as say that none shal be dāned and that in very déed the diuels shal once be saued D. The worde of God shall then be false whiche speaketh the cleane contrary T. They do ground them selues vpon the mercies of God saying that God hath created no man to destruction and that it shall be a great crueltie in him and contrary to his mercifull nature to punish so gréeuously a temporall sinne to witte with euerlasting payne D. Suche men doe greatly abuse them selues and doe declare plainly that they knowe neither the nature of sinne nor yet the maiestie of him against whome it is cōmitted For do they thinke the contempte of such a maiesty ro be nothing according to the which the greatnesse of the sinne must be measured not only according to the thing wherin it hath bin committed wherfore if that god shuld punish with eternall death all the men that euer were are shal be he shuld do them no wrong but should do them iustice and right Therefore in that that he saueth those which haue recourse to his mercie the same commeth of his méere grace wherein in déed he declareth vnto vs what punishmēt we haue deserued For seing that it was expediēt that his owne sonne shuld beare the payne which was due to the sinnes of them vnto whome he would shew mercie in him by him he hath right wel declared by the same that there was no payne whatsoeuer it was that was able to satisfie his iudgemente but that of his sonne who by reason of his great innocencie perfect obedience was only sufficient for such a satisfaction For if man could suffer any paine whereby he mought satisfie the eternall iustice of God there should then be no hell nor eternall damnation for the paines should once haue ende But forsomuche as they do neuer ende they do declare thereby that they are not sufficiente for such satisfaction and on the other side that it must néedes be bycause that they may in no wise be sufficient that they be eternall sauing only to suche as haue rereyued Iesus Christe by faith who hathe borne the wrath of God and the paynes due to their sinnes to deliuer them as it is written he that beloueth in the sonne of God the same hathe eternall lyfe He that beléeueth not in the Sonne of God the wrathe of God abideth still vpon him And as concerning that which thou hast said that God hath made no man to be damned I do cōfesse it if it be well vnderstood but not in that sense that they do take it which aledge that texte or passage of the scripture to abuse the grace goodnesse of God. It is very true that God hath made no creature to that only ende that he should be damned for he hath created all thinges for his glory hath minde all for him selfe yea the wicked for the euill day That is the principall ende of all his works notwithstāding he leaueth not to punishe and to damne with eternall death those which contemne his law and his holy word forsomuch as their damnation doth serue to his glory for the which they were created For his glory doth not only consist in that that he sheweth mercie to his but also in that that he executeth iugemēt and doth declare his iustice vppon his enimies Let vs therefore take héede that we mocke not with him nor seduce oure selues for albeit that by hys great power and wisedome he can drawe goodnesse out of the euil which the wicked committe and can tourne it and make it to serue to his honoure and glory and to the health of his chosen people whereas the wicked ones do tourne his good creatures and his good works into euil he leaueth not for al that to hate still that which is euill in somuche as it is euill and the abuse of his creatures and of his giftes and graces and to condemne and punish those whiche committe suche offences if they haue not forgiuenesse by his grace mercie in Iesus Christ Hovve that euery sinne is of his ovvne nature damnable and hovv that notvvithstanding it is not able to damne the faythfull T. SO farre forthe as I maye iudge
to loose it the same shal loose it and therefore thou wouldest not leaue God for any creature nor woldest change the inheritaunce whiche is prepared for thée in heauen for no earthly inheritance nor the blessing of God thy father for a messe of potage as did Esau but woldest rather loose thy life which ought not to be so deare vnto thée as the honoure of God and the saluation of thy soule Of the contrarietie vvhich semeth somtime to be among the commaundements of God and vvhat consideration is required in the same and of the deuision of the vvhole lavve into tvvo tables and of the order of the matters that are disposed cōteined in thē T. I Do knowe righte well now by that whiche thou saist that all suche clokings cannot excuse vs before God but from whence commeth it that God somtimes dothe allow workes whiche he seemeth to haue forbidden he commaundeth to honoure father and mother and to obey the magistrates and yet notwithstāding he doth often times greatly commend those which do not obey thē at all He forbiddeth murther and yet sometime he commendeth those that do committe it D. That diuersitie cōmeth of the nature of the commandementes of God and of the order whereby he hathe disposed them in his Lawe for he hathe broughte and deuided the whole into two Tables in which he hath written disposed his commaundementes according to the order worthynesse of the thing that euery one of them cōteyneth T. Declare that order vnto me D. In the first he hath written foure which do properly and directly concerne his glory without speciall consideration of any other than of him as the three first requests which are written in the prayer of our Lorde Iesus Christe The second conteyneth sixe which do concerne those things that do belong to oure neyghboure which must be measured by the first foure of which they do depende and to whose ende they oughte alway to haue regard as the thrée last requestes of the prayer of our Lord Iesus Christ ought alway to be referred to that ende wherevnto the thrée first do pretend wherefore if any thing do happen for the which any commaundement of the firste table must be broken to accomplish any of the secōd it behoueth them in suche a case that the seconde giue place to the firste and that it haue recourse vnto the same to haue the true vnderstanding and the true vsage of that which it doth conteyne Of the manner hovv to accord and agre the passages and sentences of the lavve and of the holy Scriptures vvhich seme to disagree set foorthe vppon the commaundement giuen to honoure father and mother and vvhat loue or hatred he vvould that we shuld beare them T HOw may this be hath God giuen a lawe which is contrary to it selfe and doth conteyne commaundements which cannot be obserued without transgression of others D. No if the lawe bée well vnderstoode in that meaning sense for the whiche it was giuen by God and for the better vnderstanding of all thys difficultie I will declare it vnto thée by certayne examples which are very familiar God commaundeth me to honoure my father to what ende is this commanded me To the ende that God moughte be honoured in the honoure that we giue to our fathers acknowledging the goodnesse that we haue receyued of him by them who haue bin the instruments and ministers of his louing kindnesse toward vs. D. Thou hast well aunswered thou doest then see here howe that this commaundement hath his foundation in the firste table in such sorte that if thou dishonor thy father thou doest not only dishonor that man which is thy carnall father but in him doest thou dishonor God thy eternall father of whome the carnall father is nothing else but an Image or instrumente towarde whome thou declarest of what affection thou arte towards him whome he representeth and the more neare that this image is to thée and the more neare thou drawest to the nature of it and that God doth more familiarly and more plenteously communicate vnto thee his louing kindnesse by this instrument and the more that he maketh his image to shyne in him so muche the more is thy wickednesse iniquitie the greater but if it should so come to passe that thy father shuld be vntrue toward god should require of thée a thing wherin thou couldest not obey him vnlesse thou shouldest disobey God thou arte not at all in any thing bound vnto him in such a case for in such a case thou arte dispensed with in the first table by the interpretation true meaning of the same For seing that the honor which thou owest to thy father dothe comprehend the honor of god is grounded vpō the same it is certayne that if god be dishonored in that which thy father requireth of thée thou doest not honour him at al in such sorte as thou arte commāded by god to honour him if thou do it in such sorte as thy father requireth thée to do for thy father cannot be truly honoured in that wherin god is dishonored but is dishonored in that wherein god is dishonored although that men cannot alwayes vnderstand know it Therefore when thy father doth commaund thée any thing thou oughtest to haue good regard to the nature of the thing whiche he commaundeth thée to doe if it be a thing that thou maist doe without offence towarde God and thyne owne conscience séeke by all meanes possible to please him for the honoure of him that dothe so commaunde thée howe harde soeuer it be to doe if it bée otherwise in suche a case acknowledge him not at all for thy father bycause that the deuill doth require by him that thou shouldest yelde him in thy father that honoure which thou owest to thy only God and that he will make thy father his instrumente but leaue that Sathan transfigured into the likenesse of thy father and say vnto him that thou hast no father for whome thou mayst refuse and leaue God thy heauenly and eternall father For if a father should require his daughter to giue ouer hir selfe vnto him that he mought make hir a harlot or else that he himselfe moughte abuse hir or otherwise that he shoulde deliuer hir to anye whoremaster ought she to acknowledge suche a father for hir father and were she bound to obey him in suche a matter T. There is no man if he haue so muche as one sparke of good iudgement but would iudge hir worthy of greate blame if she should do it and worthy of great prayse if she did rather choose to die than to please hir father in such wickednesse for by such meanes she should not obey to hir father but to a bawde a whoremaster and an horrible incest and to a very Deuill D. Thou hast saide well Then if it be not lawfull for a daughter to giue ouer hir body to hir owne father to abuse it in any
kinde of villanie how much lesse lawfull is it then for the soule whiche is much more precious than the body to giue ouer it selfe to any creature whatsoeuer he be whereby it may be ioyned to the Deuill Then if thy father will be an idolater and will haue thée to be such an one with him and will haue thée to leaue Iesus Christ to please him thou oughtest than to haue recourse to the interpretation that Iesus Christe dothe make of this cōmaundement of the honor whiche is due to father and mother founded in the first Table as it shal be more amply declared when wée shall come to the exposition of the fifte commaundement T. Of what interpretatiō meanest thou D. Of that where he saithe Whosoeuer doth not hate his father and his mother for my sake whiche is to say as he doth expounde it by an other Euangelist he that shall loue them better than me is not worthy of me nor may be my disciple beholde this interpretation is very plaine whiche declareth vnto vs that it is a great vertue and worthie of commendation to contemne father and mother in time and place which is to say in such like cases as wée haue already spoken of for such a contempt of them is not a contempt to speake properly but onely in the iudgement of man no more than the hatered whiche Iesus Christe willeth vs to beare them for his sake is a hatered but a very true loue founded in the loue of god For wée must rather iudge of thinges according to their effectes than according to the affections of men in whom we doe consider them as in diuers other like passages of the Scripture It is written in the Prouerbes in the which Salomon speaketh in the person of wisedome All those that hate me loue death There is none but he hateth and abhorreth death and yet for all that seyng that he whiche despiseth and hateth wisedome doth purchase his owne death and ruine doth it not then seeme that he loueth it and that he desireth it and what coulde he more doe if that he desired it It is also written he that dothe take parte with the théefe hateth his soule Moreouer he that spareth the rodde hateth his childe yet notwithstanding there is no man that both this for any hatered that he beareth either to his soule ▪ and his life or to his childe but rather for loue if wée doe consider the affection of the person yet notwithstanding the truth is euen suche as the spirite of GOD hath spoken in déede as the effect dothe right well declare Then as he hateth in deede whiche dothe folishly loue and otherwise than he ought to doe euen so dothe he truly loue whiche hateth as he ought to hate and that same whiche he ought to hate The like is of the honour and dishonour but it is not néedefull here to speake any more of this matter considering that it shall haue more apte place in the exposition of the Cōmaundement of the which wée haue now spoken Therefore I haue spoken this but onely for an example An example to the like purpose vpon the commaundement giuen of the obedience due to Princes and vpon the commaundement giuen against murder T. WE also may in mine opiniō say the like of Princes Lords D. S. Peter S. Iohn doe teach vs by their example what we ought to thinke therein For did they transgresse the commaūdement which cōmaundeth to yelde obedience vnto Princes Magistrates when they did contemne the forbidding of the counsell of Ierusalem which was contrary to the commaundement of God and did answere them that it was better to obey God than man T. No but did much better fulfill it than if they had otherwise done and did truly declare it D. Phinees in like sorte was greatly cōmēded by God for the whore the whore master which he did slea and was not rebuked as a murderer for so much as he did it not of hatred nor of any blouddie affection but onely for the dutie and obedience whiche he ought to God who had bene greatly dishonored if that suche a villany had not bene punished reuenged by him with such a zeale Thou maist thē know by al these examples how that the worke whiche may seeme vnto men to haue some shew of wickednesse and to be contrary to the cōmaundements of God is not at all wicked in the sight of God nor in the iudgmēt of those which take the law of God in his true meaning doe know how to rule the secōd Table by the first but is pleasant agreable to his will. Of the hidden sinnes that are in the conscience and vvicked vvil of man and hovv that concupiscence is a sinne vvorthy of damnation in the sight of God and hovv greatly it doth displease him and for vvhat cause T. IT séemeth to me that this matter of workes hath bene sufficiently fully and familiarly entreated of wherefore let vs procéede to the rest D. If that which hath bene sayd of workes be well vnderstoode the reste shal be easie inough vnto vs for wee may by the very same meane iudge of the wil of the affectiōs according to which God doth iudge of the worke If then thou be stirred vp to euill by any wicked affection thy will doth consent and agrée therevnto in such sorte that there wanteth nothing but the onely meane to execute it Behold the wickednesse is already accōplished before God thou knowest by that which hath bene already spoken how God will iudge If on the contrary there be any resistance in thee that thy spirite thy wil in no case will agrée to that cōcupiscence which cōtinually doth procure thee but d ee resist and repulse it as farre from them as they may it is certaine that the iniquitie is not so great albeit that such a concupiscēce what resistance soeuer there be can not be without sinne by reason of the corrupted and wicked spring frō whence it procéedeth For that is a sure testimonie that there is much poison and corruption there where such fruite doth budde forth although that it finde hinderances which will not permitte and suffer their buddes and fruites to come to their ripenesse Now such a corruption can not be but very displeasant to God considering that it doth procéede from his aduersarie and that it is contrary to his holy maiestie as wée sée it proued and euident in litle children yea euen in those whiche are not onely not in age to put any euill acte in execution but also haue not discretion to iudge neither of good nor euill wée see how death hath power ouer them and taketh them out of the worlde which he could not do except that there were sinne in them For seyng that sinne did begette death and that it is a frute of his curse it is a thing certaine that there where sinne doth not raigne death also can