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A19798 A dialogue of witches, in foretime named lot-tellers, and novv commonly called sorcerers VVherein is declared breefely and effectually, vvhat soueuer may be required, touching that argument. A treatise very profitable ... and right necessary for iudges to vnderstande, which sit vpon lyfe and death. Written in Latin by Lambertus Danæus. And now translated into English.; De venificis quos olim sortilegos, nunc autem vulgo sortarios vocant, dialogus. English Daneau, Lambert, ca. 1530-1595?; Twyne, Thomas, 1543-1613, attributed name. 1575 (1575) STC 6226; ESTC S109219 58,911 164

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kynde whereof wee now speake for it was done by the hande and power of GOD and not by Satan in the second Epistle to the Corinthians the xij Chapter third verse sayeth thus And I know the same man whether in the bodie or out of the bodie I can not tell God knoweth was taken vp into Paradise and there heard vnspeakable wordes which are not lawfull for a man to vtter These as I suppose Anthony will satisfie your doubtes and I hope declare them sufficiently vnto you Anthony Yea the bodies of such are foūd to abide remayne in the selfsame chamber and bed from which they must haue bin far distant if they should personally bodily haue met in an other place Theophil You continue still in your opiniō Anthony which that I may playnly refute I deny that which you say take vnto you for a graunted veritie namely that their true bodies were found to bee in the same chamber and bed at what tyme they sayd that they were away There were rather certen counterfeit bodies placed in their steede by Satan represented lykenesses then the true bodies of the Sorcerers Doo you not remember I pray you what Michol Dauids wife did and what deuise she practized when she concealed the flight of her husband from her father Saule and his seruants which sought to sley him Haue you not read that which is written in the first of Samuel the xix chapter how shee by craft and colourable meanes but not by any Diuelish arte nor after the maner of Sorcerers in steed of Dauids bodie placed an image laying pillowes vnder his head and trimming him with garmentes so finely and cunningly that they thought surely Dauid was there beholding the counterfeite so liuely set foorthe before their eyes So likewise Satan to the intente hee maye keepe from vs the absence of his Pupilles in steede of their true bodie whiche is awaye placeth there a false body when wee chaunce to enquire Whereby it commeth to passe that many men suppose that Sorcerers are not bodely present at their assemblies whiche themselues contende that they were at and that because they perceyu● and finde false and counterfeite bodies like vnto them layde in their Chambers and beddes by Satan in stéede of their true bodies But surely they that iudge so are very muche abused Anthony I vnderstande what you say But I pray you resolue me in that which I proposed secondly vnto you for it séemeth vnto me impossible that Sorcerers should sometime be conueyed vnto those places by Satan which neuerthelesse you haue auouched to be true Theophilus Why Doe not you thinke that to be true which is written of Christe both in the .iiij. Chapter of Math. the .viij. verse and also the fourth Chapter of Luke the ninth verse how he was caried by Satan out of the desert vnto a pynacle of Hierusalem Temple Anthony Yea it is very true But that was done by the will of god And all that matter was extraordinary Theophilus I easely graunt you that And so likewise I say that by the same wyll of God and his iust iudgement it commeth to passe that the Diuel can touch cary and conuey Sorcerers that it may so appeare that they be altogether in his power And if Satan durst touch so holy and vndefiled a body as Christes was ouer which he could haue no power by reason of any sin If he could take the same Christ vp carry him in the Ayre the saucie presumer will not be afrayd to handle carry the bodies of Sorcerers knowing that before they haue geuen them selues vnto him both body and soule And if God haue geuen power vnto Satan ouer the soules of Sorcerers to thintent they should be lead away from the fayth he wyll much more geue him power ouer theyr bodies to handle them and cary them For God will not so soone geue vnto Satan power ouer the soules of men as ouer theyr bodies which is confirmed by the example of Iob. Iob the second Chapter the sixt verse Finally Satan wyll not alwayes take vpon him the trauayle of carrying and recarrying Sorcerers but onely at some tymes and when he will take from them all excuses of not méeting together at theyr assemblyes Anthony Me thinckes he should cast them into an horrible feare when he toucheth or handleth them Theophilus You say trueth if he appeared or met with them in his fourme of a Diuell which doubtlesse is most horrible and dreadfull but he appeareth vnto them in another shape and similitude For in respect that he is an euyll Angell he cannot be séene But like as when first he assayeth them and talketh with them he doeth it in the resemblance of a man or in some other tollerable and accustomed fourme so likewise when he meaneth to carry thē he transfigureth himselfe into the lykenes of an horse or a mule or a bird or some other liuing thing Yea sometime he caryeth thē foorth and yet they see him not For he geueth them a staffe whiche they muste put betweene their legges and at the saying of certen prayers in his name which he teacheth and commaundeth them to doe they thinke straight that the staffe carieth them thither as they would goe and so he perswadeth them that they be borne by the staffe while he himselfe dothe carrie them For beeing of the nature of Aungels yea the Prince of the ayre as sayth S. Paule to the Ephesians the .vj. chapter and .xij. verse it is no maruell if he doe that whiche we by no meanes can doe and doe it also with more agilitie and quicknesse than we can Anthony I haue heard reporte of a certayne Abbot named Bruno who in a minute of an houre was caried by the Diuell from Millayn to Rome also of one Theophilus of whom the like is reported But what thinke you hereof Theophilus doe you suppose these examples to be true Theophilus Whether the reporte which goeth on these twayne be true or not I neither knowe neither doe muche force but I confirme my selfe in mine owne opinion with this reason that if Satan through Gods sufferaunce can hurte and slay our bodies as is gathered out of the storie of Iob and others muche more by his sufferaunce can he lifte them vp carrie them handle them and vse them in all poyntes as a wolfe can a shéepe whiche he hath stolen Neither must we therfore suppose that Satan is an horse or a mule or a beast as he then appeareth vnto our eyes But if as S. Paule sayth the .ij to the Corinthians the .xij. chapter and .xiiij. verse he can transfourme him selfe into an Aungell of lighte he can muche sooner and with more facilitie put on the shape of these thinges because hee can not so easely counterfeite the man of God as he can resemble the shape of a Mule. Also Alexander Neopolitanus whom while ere you commended for a substantiall witnesse in the fourth booke and xix chapter of his worke
appeareth in the scripture in the third Chapter of Exod. At Rome also certen Emperours gaue them selues to the studie of Magicke and vsed the helpe of Sorcerers The Emperour Nero as Suetonius wryteth in his lyfe was accompted one of the chéefest among the professours of Magicke howbeit afterwarde perceauinge the vanitie of that Arte he forsooke and mislyked of that studie as C. Plinius wryteth Adrian also the Emperour which was after Nero as Dion the historician wryteth in his lyfe applyed the same study and vsed the ayde of Sorcerers against the Dropsie whereinto he was fallen The whole nation of Hunnes as I haue before alleaged out of Gregorius Turonensis when they went to batteyll vsed their helpe thereby to get the victory Sainct Cypriane himselfe who afterwarde became a Christian and was Byshop of Carthage before that he was conuerted to the fayth of Christ it is read of him how earnestly and diligently he was addicted to that studie which afterwarde through the great goodnesse of god he forsooke and renounced Which examples doe all of them sufficiently declare what great accompt the heathen people and such as knew not the true God made of the faculties and knowledge of these men or rather in what price and estimacion their damnable and wicked deceptfulnesse was had being of all men commonly vsed But after that by meanes and reason of this arte there were found many vaine absurde and horrible thinges to be committed very gréeuous to be seene both for the inuocation of Diuells and for the sundry straunge gestures superstitions of these men the Christian faith increasing by little little it came to passe that afterward it was not lawful by lawes set forth to the contrary by the Emperours of Rome for men commonly to vse the helpe of Sorcerers vnlesse some publique or priuate commoditie enforced them thertoo Wherfore in Iustinians Code the ix booke xviii title iiii lawe it is thus written which lawe is set forth by Constantine the great Their science is to bee punished and worthely to bee restrained by most seuere lawes who vsing the arte of Magicke are found to haue practized any thing against the health of men or to mooue chast mindes vnto lechery As for such remedies as are found to be auaylable to the health of mans bodie are not restrained or forbiddē or godly prayers which are made in the fieldes that men may not be affeard of showres falling vpon their rype Grapes or that they be shaken with winde or beaten with Hayle or els such whereby no mans health or estimation bee impayred but rather their dooinges furthered that the giftes of God and labours of men be not destroyed Dated the x. of the Kalend. of Iune at Aquileia Crispus and Constantinus being Consuls Anthony This is a straunge lawe Theophilus wicked and little Christian like if Constantine the Christian Emperour were the first that made and published the same Theophil Uerely Anthony I suppose the Constantine was not fully established in the Christian fayth when hee wrote it For see how much hée ascribeth to Magicians and Sorcerers hee willeth that it shall bee lawfull for men to vse their arte so that it may bée to their commoditie which surely hee would not haue done if he had bin a perfect christian wherfore that lawe was not only afterward amended by Leo but altogether disanulled For he forbiddeth vs to vse them vpon any occasion and al the help and worke of Sorcerers he calleth disceite and dissimulatiō Which latter lawe all opinions iudgementes of men haue afterward commended for the better and hollier Augustine whose wordes are written in the Canon Admoueant .xxvi. the vij question sheweth that their helpes are meere deceits and craftes of the Diuell To conclude in the second Chapter in the title De Sortilegis in the Decretals the same is condemned the cause and reason of all which iudgmentes surely is most iust and righteous Anthony What is that Theoph. That we ought to haue no fellowship with Satan whether it be directly and mediately or els indirectly and immediately as they tearme it Neither ought we to séeke any relief by his help ayde or counsell For it is our true and only God vnto whom we must make recourse in all our afflictions For why doo we séeke helpe and succour of Belzebub since there is a god in Israel as the prophet Elias worthyly gréeued and repined at in the second booke of kinges the .j. chapter and iij. verse Wherfore we ought to cleaue vnto God to depend only vpon him that by no means we allow like of or séeke to Satan him self or to his ministers as the Sorcerers be as we be warned in the lxxxi Psalme and xi verse For wée can not serue twoo Maisters namely God and the Diuel whom we must vtterly forsake that we may entirely cleaue vnto God. Anthony But their helpes haue many tymes had happie and prosperous successe Theophil That therefore they are to be vsed your argument is very weake and féeble we must haue regard rather to the commaundement of God which forbiddeth vs in any wise to séeke vnto Sorcerers as appeareth in the xviii of Deut. the x. verse For what doth Satan worke other by that meanes then to leade vs away from the feare of the true God and to pull vs vnto him For looke whatsoeuer help we requir● of him to cure our bodies it redoundeth to the hurt and destruction of our soules For by this meanes men seperate them selues from God which is the true death of the ●oule Whereby it foloweth that all the help and ayde that commeth by Satan and Sorcerers is deadly poyson to the soule which aboue all thinges wee ought to eschewe yea more then we would a Dog or a Snake But whereas it is sometime alleaged that their meanes haue done some men ease and pleasure how much I pray you is it or how seldome hath it chaunced since among ten that flie to them for succour there is scarce one or not one that is reléeued or findeth help And againe the effectes are not to be weighed vpon the successe but vpon the commaundement of god For he that hath stolen oftentimes liueth in wealthier state is theft therefore to be allowed Admit then that all which séeke such remedie doo alwayes escape and well recouer and if we graunt so much yet forasmuch as the expresse word of God commaūdeth the contrarie we ought not accept it whē it is offred much lesse voluntarely goe séeke it For whensoeuer we runne to any other for helpe sauing God only therin we vtter the most shamefull distrust and infidelitie of our mindes our rebellion against God and most wicked contempt of his power By which wickednes of ours we prouoke his wrath against vs and chiefly heape vpon vs eternall damnation Anthony How then I pray you may wee not by any meanes vse the helpe and ayde of Sorcerers therby to séeke any releife or ease in our afflictions Theophil Some
vse therin a distinction They suppose that if the Magistrate will and commaund vs so to doo then may wee with safe conscience vse their helpes and remedies Otherwise they hold opinion that it is not graunted to vs nor lawfull for vs So that when the Magistrate biddeth vs séeke their helpe and wee our selues of our owne accord doo not séeke vnto them therein they say if wee admit their helpes we doo not offend at all But if we our selues of our owne accorde doo runne vnto them then they say wee desire their help we flatter them curry with them and frendly require them to come helpe vs and therein we offend gréeuously But if we not seeking it the Magistrate notwithstanding cōmaundeth vs to doo it thē finde we their help almost against our will in so dooing wee are without fault or grudge of conscience for the Magistrate putteth in his foote as it were the aucthoritie of god whō we must obey bicause hee hath his power from god This is the foundation ground of this distinction But how weake yea rather how vaine false it is I pray you consider and iudge Anthony First Sainct Paul generally forbiddeth in the iii. to the Romanes the viii verse that we shal neuer doo euyll that good thereby may ensue vnto vs by whose soeuer aucthoritie we are so commaunded either Iudges Magistrates or what euer els he bée Moreouer I thinke we may also reasō thus a Pari by the like If the Iudge and Magistrate bid vs woorship Idoles if he bid vs steale commit adultery embrace Satan may wee therefore doo so with safe conscience bicause the Magistrate biddeth vs There is no man I thinke will graunt this that is wel in his wittes Yea that more is if the same Magistrate commaunde the Sorcerer to helpe vs by his Satanicall arte and also will vs to suffer our selues to bee cured by that art commaunding vs fully to yéeld our selues vnto his meanes and wee doo so we both commit and consent vnto euyl And if we should otherwise al the dayes of our life lie sick in our bed yet ought we not run to any such meanes artes of Satan no although the chéefe magistrate doo wil commaund the same For it can not bee otherwise chosen but that therein wee acknowledge Satans power whose help we vse and stay vs vpon whom notwithstanding in our Baptime we haue before wholy renounced and forsaken Neither lyeth it in the power of Satan to make vs liue or die but in Gods hand only But in this poinct a man may both geue counsell and this may also be graunted If he that is called a sorcerer can by no superstitious meanes and no dealing with the Diuell but only by rules and preceptes of Phisicions and by ordinary and alowable medicines restore vs to health then may we vse his hand helpe and meanes with safe conscience and due obedience to god For when the medicines which are ministred vnto vs haue nothing in them that is reprooued as nought or defiled with artes of the Diuell but are grounded vpon true and naturall causes that are euident vnto vs then may wee accept them not regarding whether it were a man or a woman a citizen or a countrey man that teacheth or applyeth them For all that are accompted commonly witches and Sorcerers are not so in déede and many there are that haue bin suspected thereof vndeseruedly Wherfore now at the length let vs thus conclude out of the premisses that we may not nor ought not to vse the help of Sorcerers vnlesse we our selues will be of the number of them and forsake our true God and sauiour which they doo as often as they haue any dealinges with Satan or require or receyue of him knowledge of remedie The vij Chapter By what meanes a man may take heede and beware of the artes and bewitchinges of Sorcerers Anthony HOw thē Theophilus by what meanes shall a man take héede of them or how shall a man be restored to health againe if hee be once intoxicated Theophil As concerning the cure of intoxications Anthony I wil not doubt to affirme this much after S. Augustine that the most learned Phisitions are for the more part to séeke in such kinde of diseases not knowing what remedies to minister they are so straunge new and priuie For they come forth of Satans shop and they are wrought by his artes which for the most part are vnknowne vnto vs mortall men Howbeit the helpe of Phisick is not to bee contemned in them but rather diligently to bee sought and applyed and all wayes and meanes are to be prooued which that facultie sheweth and the counsell thereof to bée insued that if it shall please God wee may recouer our former health For hée can blesse those good and holsome medicines and restore vs to as perfect health as wee were before For Phisicke is a most excellent gift of GOD vnto men as it is read in the xxxviij Chapter and seconde verse of Ecclesiasticus whose effectes are great which hath many tymes before and may now also at this present if it please God restore many that are intoxicate and bewitched But when wee haue prooued all lawfull meanes and notwithstanding are able to doo no good yet must wee by no meanes runne to Sorcerers nor séeke to dryue one mischéefe away with another or rather with a woorse and not loose the soule in seeking to heale the bodie although to to many wicked and vngodly men doo so now a dayes What must wee then doo wee must patiently abyde looke for the helpe of God and depende onely vpon his prouidence Therfore let vs commit our selues wholly vnto him let vs earnestly call vpon him and make our mone vnto him and come vnto him with true conuertion of mynde and hée will help vs so far as he shall think méete for his glorie and profitable to the health of our soules ▪ Finally let vs thus perswade our selues that it is hée only in whose hande lyeth the beginning and ending of our life as the scripture speaketh which th●t we may most certenly beléeue it is very often repeated by the spirite of God in the xxxvij Psalme the fift verse the xxvij the fourtéene verse the .l. the fiftéene verse also in Ecclesiasticus the viij Chap. and viij verse ▪ the lxviij Psalme and xxj verse For hée knoweth howe hee would bee glorified in vs what and howe longe hee hath appoynted the tearme of our life how also and after what manner we must be chastized in the mean● season Wherefore let vs wholly submit our selues vnto his most wise prouidence As for temptation wee shall not be tempted aboue the strength of a man like as he hath promised the first to the Corinth the x. Chapter and xiij verse For when wée striue with such diseases and euilles which are almost vncurable and desperate then ought we chéefly to looke for comfortes out of the word of God and lay