heare Theophilus I beléeue that that God of the Priestes defendeth hymselfe as well from the fire as hée defendeth himselfe from the myce wormes spiders when they doe eate him and that euen as they lyue of the accidents wythout the substaunce so hath the fyre burned the accidents wythout the substaunce And accordinge to the Philosophy of the scholasticall Diuines agaynst the senâ—ence of Aristotle and of all the olde Philosophers one may easely finde accidents qualities and quantities without substaunce wythout body and subiecte Yet neuerthelesse if they dyd well consider the vertue of the fyre they should be contrained to allowe mine opynion And I woulde to God that they woulde worshyppe the fire which hath the onely vertue to purge sinnes to wytte the same with which Iesus Christ baptised which is the holy Ghost Hillarius I doe also desire that they would worship that water of lyfe the which Iesus Christ hath promysed which is the same holy Ghost But they had rather make the materiall water a God of which wée may lawfully say as wée haue sayde of the fire For if they do make a God of the fire they muste in lyke manner make a Goddesse of the water to the ende they maye haue Gods and Goddesses a Vulcan a Vesta Thetis or Amphittite Leucothea or Naiades Nymphes goddesses of the waters as wel as the Panims had for many times they attribute vnto it as much vertue as to the fire sometimes more For if their water do quench put out y fire of purgatory it hath as much vertue more theÌ„ God Canopus furthermore what dyfference is there betwéene theire Aquaticall Theologye and the same of the Ibolatrous Greekes the which the Romaines haue learned of them euen as the Papistes of the auncient Romaines As wée maye iudge by that whiche Ouid hath wrytten saying Our olde men thought and did beleeue and in that hope did dwell That sinne by purging losed was and so let not to tell Greece was the first this order gaue and therewith did suppose Offenders to be rid from sinne and so let not to glose Theophilus That doctrine shoulde hée good if it referred it selfe to the purgation of our sinnes made or done by Iesus Christ and that it extended vnto his bloud But their thought is altogether otherwise Hillarius They vnderstande that of their purgations of whiche we haue spoken off and chiefly of the water Of which superstition the Panims themselues doe mocke and haue well had the iudgement to know that the same was but vanitie as wee haue already declared by the Apothegine of Diogenes And the verses of Persius a boue alledged pretend to the same as well as those héere of Ouid which I will now rehearse Ah too light credite doe they giue which doe suppose and thincke That that same fault of murther should by water be extinct Eusebius Wée are of an opinion altogether differinge from the same For wée dooe not beleeue that thorow the sprinckling of the holy water the mortall sinnes are put away but onely the veniall sinnes Theophilus They are not then defaced and taken away by the same For the sinnes are not mortall but vnto those whiche sinne vnto death and agaynste the holy Ghost and which perseuer in their sinnes withour dooing repentaunce and running vnto the mercye of god But vnto Gods elect all sinnes are veniall not by their nature but by the grace of Iesus Christ For there is no sinne be it neuer so little which of his nature is not mortall and worthy of eternall death if Iesus Christe make them not veniall and capable of pardon to those which beléeue in hym to whome there is no more condempnation Wherefore I am abaÌ„shed of your Doctors which take so much paines to purge the veniall sinnes And amongest others the sprincklyng of the holy water and that they doe allowe so muche the exorcismes and coniurations namely of Thomas of Aquin whiche yet neuerthelesse doe nothing dyffer from charmes and sorceryes But I am yet more abashed of that Canon so full of blasphemye which is taken of Pope Alexander the fift whome you accompte to bée the firste finder out and inuentour of holy water who sayth after thys manner Wée doe blesse the water sprinckled or myngled wyth salt amonge the people to this ende that all béeing sprinckled therewyth shoulde bée sanctified and puryfied the which thinge wée commaunde all Priestes to doe so For it the asshes of a younge Heyfer béeinge sprinckeled vppon the people doe sanctifie and make them cleane by a stronger reason the water béeinge mingled wyth salte and hallowed wyth diuine praiers doth sanctifie and make them cleane And if the salte béeinge cast in the water by the Prophet Eliseus hath healed and hoplen the barrennesse thereoff howe much more the water béeinge hallowed wyth diuine prayers doth take awaye the sterrilitie of hamayne thynges and sanctyfieth and purgeth the filthinesse and multiplyeth and encreaseth the other goodes and putteth awaye the assaultes of the Diuell and defendeth men from fantasies O Lorde God what greater blasphemye can one heare is not that to tourne all the worde of God vpsyde downe and to ouerthrowe all the vertue of the death and passion of Iesus Christ That which the holy Apostle attributeth vnto the death and bloud of Iesus Christe is it not héere altogether most euidentlye giuen vnto the salte and water For in stéede that the Apostle sayth If the bloude of Dren and of Goats and the asshes of an Heyfer when it was sprinckeled puryfied the vncleane as touching the purifying of the flesh Nowe much more shall the bloud of Christe whiche thorowe the eternall spyrite offered himselfe wythout spotte to GOD purge your consciences from dead woorks for to serue the liuing God In stéede that the Apostle sayth the bloud of Iesus Christ those héere doe put the salt the water But I wyll argue and reason after an other sorte agaynst Alexander If the asshes of an Heyfer and the holy water that they doe make by the ordinaunce and commaundement of God cannot purge the conscience and can scrue but for a certeyne carnall purification for to kéepe certeyne discipline in the Iewish Churche and to prefigurate the true purgation which by the bloud of Iesus Christe ought to be in the Christian Churche but it was necessary that the onely sonne of God shoulde shed out his owne bloud which onely hath that vertue how the salt the salted water coniured by the priests without hauing either law commaundement or promise of God do it better Hillarius I should haue ben greatly ashamed to haue stayed so long vpon those vaine chidish ceremonies but that I did sée that the most wisest and the most greatest Doctors haue bene abused and deceiued are fallen into so many execrable blasphemies Thomas How hath y ben possible If it be so as you say I am greatly abashed how y
of the holy Scriptures is sufficient for vs yet this ought further to moue vs to confound the Infidlls when we doe see the vertue of the truth to be so puissaunt and of such force that it constrayneth Philosophers Poets and others who haue bene ignorant of the knowledge of God to confesse it and to beare witnesse thereoff Thomas But me thinkes that our Priests and Monks do much differ from Plato Virgile in y they do lodge y richest people and the great Princes and Lords sooner in Purgatory then in Hel. Hillarius Do you not know the cause There came no profite vnto Plato nor Virgile of the Purgatory as commeth vnto those beléeue that although they had any profite they were of a better conscience and that for their owne perticuler gayne they would not haue so seduced the poore ignorant people For they do shew foorth by their writings that they had a certeyne feare and knowledge of God more then we may acknowledge in these our priestes For they watche after the deade bodyes as the Rauens doe vppon carrion And if they can méete with any dead man that hath his purse well stuffed with money wherewith hée is able to paye his raunsome they will be sure to make him tell who hath eaten the fat they will put him in such a place from whence hee cannot come out before they haue taken some fat from him For they are the tyrants of tyrants and the pillers of the great pillers and Vsurers whom they will not suffer to be broiled and tormented of the Diuells but they will be their hangmen themselues take away that office from them to whom God hath giuen it Thomas They shal be theÌ„ much tormeÌ„ted by this accompt For they shal be cruelly handled in this world and also in the other after their death as they haue vexed b tormented y worlde whilst they were alyue And suffer them not notwithstanding to fall into y hands of the Diuells But I would gladly know what payne the other haue that haue committed smaller sinnes Hillarius Plato and Virgile do lodge these in Purgatory especially the simple people which haue not bene of great credite and authoritie Wherefore they could not haue so great lycence to doe euill as the others And if they had committed any fault they had not the power so much to hurt the people as the others had For the sinnes of the Princes doe not hurt onely themselues But as well by them as by their euill example they doe hurte and destroye all the worlde where the simple people doe hurt but themselues And therefore they did thinke that their sins were sanable and that they might be purged For that cause they condemned them not vnto eternall dampuation For they thought y they had not committed euils inough for to be damned that ther was some remedie to be healed Also they lodged them not at y first dash in y fields of bliseas as the other great and vertuous men who thorowe their vertue haue merited to be incontinently receiued into blessednesse and toye or in the number of Gods. Thomas Those then which were good people and which had not the power to doe so euill as the other doe go into Purgatory against their wils Neuertheles I am sure that God will not held them excused therfore For â—e regardeth the heart will and the affections and not onely the workes as the Philosophers doe Our priests differ not much from that opinion For they Cannonise lodge among the Saints those whome they doe iudge to haue bene most vertuous and holyest and the soules perfectly good the which doe fly straight into heauen and haue no néede of our good déedes Hillarius That is to wéete the most greatest Hypocrites superstitious and Idolaters those which haue done most for them and that haue best nourished and fed their fat bellyes Thomas They doe lodge in Purgatory those who haue not accomplished héere their penaunce which neuerthelesse dyed confessed and repentaunt or which do not carry deadly sinne with them but onely veniall sinnes the which may be purged by the fire For there is some remedy for those Hillarius Such is their doctrine But notwithstanding when it commeth to triall they neyther haue regarde to mortall nor yet veniall sinnes but sooner to the riches or to the pouertie It is all one with them whether the sinnes be mortall or veniall sanable or insanable so that the dead hath wherewith to paye their drougs medicines money for his raunsome and letters of grace that they make for them by their buls and pardons And as touching the poore of whome they haue no profite it is to them all one whether they go be it into Paradise Hell or Purgatory For they haue no care of the soules but onely of their purses Thomas I haue yet one thing to demaunde of thée Doe they say that there is fire in y Poets Purgatory as there is in y of the priests Hillarius It séemeth to mée that y Poets are a lyttle more reasonable and more merciful then the priests and Monks For they make not such broyling and rosting of the poore soules Thomas How then Hillarius Bicause that they haue assigned the payne a little easier and lyghter according to euery ones misdéedes For they condempne not all generally to y fire But they do make thrée differences according to the greatnesse and smalnesse of sinnes Those that haue sinned most grieuously and which are most full and stuffeâ— with sinnes and which are most earthly and most hardest to be purged béeing so harde glewed and tyed to the soule that it cannot be pluckt away nor made cleane by no meanes but thorow the fire are put and cast into the hot furnace For they must be melted all new agayne The other that are not altogether so filthy vile and that haue not their sinnes so glewed in the soule that one cannot pul them away are holden for a certeine time within the great goulfes of water for to be there washed and made cleane Ther are yet others y are lesse faultie and guyltie which haue committed but certeyne small sins that hath no neede of such strong purgation And therefore they are hanged but a lyttle in the ayre for to winde them For they néede but to haue a lytle winde for to blowe away the dust that cleaueth fast to the soule bicause of the coniunction that it hath with his body and his fleshe Thomas As farre as I perceiue they doe with the soules in that Purgatorye as we doe with our apparayle sheetes vessell and mettall For when we haue any clothes or shéetes that are dustie or whereof we doubt the Moths and Wormes we stretch them abroad and hang them vppon a pearch in the ayre for to winde and cleane them And if ther be any spot or staine that will not easely come out we wash them with water
greatest â—othsmiths y euer was in the world For ther was neuer none as farre as I can see which hath made and counterfaited more keyes nor which hath made them to agrée better to all locks Hillarius The experience doth witnesse it Theophilus I do think yet vpon an other reason against y of Eusebius If thou wilt limit y ministry of Saint Peter and of the Apostles within the compasse of heauen and wilt not suffer their power to bée stretched foorth euen to the confins and ende of Purgatorye at the least thou shalt not denye mée but that there be some Popes Cardinalls Bishoppes Priestes and Monkes in Purgatory 〈◊〉 thou wilt say y theâ— do â—o all straight way into paradise or into 〈◊〉 Now if they be in Purgatory wherefore â—â—e ye not suffer them to haue that office in the places where they are present Eusebius Bicause for that they are sinners as others are and subiect vnto one iudgement they are of the same condition as the others and they cannot giue them that whereoff they themselues haue néede and cannot haue it for them Furthermore as soone as they are dead they are depriued from that office Hillarius I haue two reasons for to beate downe thy aunswere The first is that I am abashed that the Pope and his doe attribute vnto themselues the power to pardon all sinnes how great and wicked soeuer they bée yea all Sodomy and if néede hée the sinne against the holy Ghost notwithstanding that it bée irrâ—missible and doe giue bulâ— and pardons for all so that one doe bring them money and that they haue also power to pardon the veâ—â—all sinnes in Purgatory For according to your own doctrine none are there deteined and kept but for the veniall sinnes For the mortall sinnes haue no purgation in the other world but they must bee punished in hell And as to that that thou sayest that they are sinners and subiect to the same paines in Purgatory so are they in this worlde and leaue not off therefore to absolue themselues the one to the other although they shoulde haue killed Father and Mother and so make themselues as white as the Collyers Furthermore you doe call the impression of your Creame and holy Oile with whiche you doe anointe the Pristes when they doe take their orders Charector indelibilis that is to saye a marke and a signe which cannot be put out nor defaced If it be so the Pâ—iestes dooe abide and remaine alwayes Pristes although they be dead For you will not confesse that that impression and marke is onely done vnto the bodye But you doe affirme that it penitrateth and pearceth euen to the soule of which it can neuer be defaced nor abolyshed yet neuerthelesse thou knowest better then I. Theophilus They doe attribute vnto it such vertue that they doe affirme for certâ—ine that a prâ—est notwithstanding that he be an heriticke or an apostate or desgraded yet neuerthelesse be shall haue power alwayes to consecrate the body of God as well as others if he doe pronounce the sacramentall wordes vppon the hoast with the intencion to consecrate Hillarius Beholde yet to confirme better my purpose I do not doubt for my parte but that that Character is the marke wherewith is marked the conscience of those which shall giue héede vnto spirits of errour and deuilish doctrine and which are Apostates of the faith according to the prophecie of saint Paul. That is the marke of the great whore of Babylon without which one cannot sell nor buy nor haue any place in the Popish Church That is a marke cleane contrary vnto that which the Angell printed in the foreheads of the elect of god Nowe sith that the Apostles of Iesus Christ and the true bishoppes and priests which by them were ordayned haue not had that Cautor that is to say Marke I had thought to haue said Charecter I am not abashed if they haue not such power in the other worlde as the Pope hath in the same and in this But it is an other thing of him and of his which do departe out of this worlde with this Cauter I doe beguile my selfe alwayes I doe say with that Charâ—â—ter which they do beare alwayes with them Wherfore they ought to haue no lesser power there then here And y same I wil proue by y example of Frier Rogers a Câ—rdelier which is recyted in the booke of the conformities of saint Fraunces It is there written that after that he was deade he appeared vnto a certeine woman who confessed vnto him all hir sinnes hée gaue hir obsolution If hâ— being deade had the power to come to heare the confession of the lyuing and to absolue them wherefore shall not his other compagnions béeinge deade haue and chiefely the Popes and Byshoppes who haue ordained them and confirmed them as much power among the dead Furthermore if according to the witnesse of your Doctors others may satisfie for vs not onely during our lyfe but also after that we be dead wherfore cannot we after that we be dead satisfie for our selues and to cause Masses to be song in Purgatory sith that there are so many Priest's Popes and Bishops for to doe it What thinkest thou Thomas Thomas Thou sayest well But I thinke that they cannot haue their hoasts and singing cakes Hillarius Yet they had neuerthelesse fire inough for to séethe or bake their gods Thomas If it be so as they say there is too much And therefore I thinke that they cannot haue hoasts chalyces aulters nor vestements For the fire will schorch and consume it all Hillarius Thou makest a good reason But by that compt how can the bulls and pardons of the Pope be kept and preserued from the fire which are sent thether by hole cart loades which some do cause to be buried with them for to cary them thether sith that they are but paper and parchment Asmuch may we say of the rule and habite of Saint Fraunces What sayest thou Theophilus Theophilus There is yet an other poynt If they will say that those which are in Purgatory can no more merite neyther for themselues nor for others they cannot say the lyke without speaking agaynst the doctrine which they haue giuen vs of the saints which are in Paradise For they doe affirme that they pray vnto God for vs that they are our intercessors aduocates towards him and that in séeing God which séeth all things they doe see all as in a Mirrour or looking glasse If they doe pray for vs which are yet in this lyfe bicause of the great loue and charitie that they haue towards vs wherefore do they not also willyngly pray for their bretheren deteyned and kept in the fire of Purgatory For they shoulde haue a greate deale more reason to doe that if they had anye care or charge of menne And that for manye causes First that the estate and condition of
Gospell Man without meanes hovv he vseth the out vvard things The feasts of that Panims contayâ—ned in the feast of Candelâ— mas Purification February Februales Lupereâ—es Serâ— Peâ—â—p â—â—no Februla Felrualâ— Februala Puâ—â—â—cations of vvoemen The vvhips of the Lupele les The 〈◊〉 of luno The robes gowns of the priests doing myracles Meria Fluon â— Durand Ral. dâ—â—â— off it â— Rub. le purif Mars Amburbales Regations Februus pluto Sacratices vnto the infernall gods VVatchings Vigdes for the dead The Cardelmas of Ceres and Preserpma Lactan. de fal religl li. 1. ca. 12. East 4â— Pope â—ergius Rat. Diui. off 7. Rub. de puâ—â— Adouis Theocri 〈◊〉 23. Lue. in det syriaâ— Hiero. tn Eâ—â— c. 8. 〈…〉 〈◊〉 de sal 〈◊〉 li. ca. 21. luke Saty. 8 Thammus Eze. 8. c. 14 Good Friday Easter Allelâ—ya H. 〈◊〉 The God Ris Apul. aluti aur 11 3. The true comme meration of the death of Iesus Christ Floralet Fast 5. Cereales Dishonour to the Virgin Mary Holy candells processions Representacion of the light of the Gospell Esi 40. b. 6. Act 13 g. 47. Act. 13. g. 47. Luc. 2. c 32. Psa 19. c. 9 Torehes of the Chrustans Mat. 5 b. 14 Mat. 15. b. 14. Mat. 2â— b. 16 Te humiliter deprecartur vs has candelas ad vsus omnia salutem animarum corporum sine in terra sine in aquis per inuecationemsancts fur nominis per intereessionem sancta Maria virginis genetricis fily tul cuius bodie sesla denels colimus per preces omnium sanct 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 benedicere sanctificate dig neâ—â— 1. Candells for the health of the soules bodyes Benedie Doms ne Iesu Christe haue creaturam cere supplicanti bus nobis c. Item Benedico te creatura cera in nomine Domini nostri sancte Trio nstntis us sis exterminatio diaboli omnium conterbur nalium esus Charmes The ad iurati of the holy water salte Exercisnius salis Exorciso te creatn salis per De um †vinum per Deum †verum per Deum †sanctum per Deum qui te per Eliseum prophetam in aquam mitti iussit vt sanaresur steulitas aque vt effectâ—ris sale porcizatom in salutem credentiam vt sisommtleas te 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 lulian the Apostate The Temple of Fortune The spâ—â—kings at the entrmg in coming forth on the Temple The sprinklings at the entring in and comming forth of the temple A Priest being stroken A potheme of Diogenes Exorcismus aqua Exerciso te creatura aqua in in nomine Dei patris ¶ omnipotentis in no mine Domini lesu †Christi â—â—â—â— eiusdem domins nostri in virtute Spiritus †sancti vt sias aqua exoressata ad effu gandam onme polestatem mimici ipsum inimicum eradicare explantare valeas cum Angelis suis Apostaticis per virtutem c. Hem. Huic elemento multimodis purificatioâ— nibus prepara to virtute tue bene †dictiones infunde vt ad abijcrendos demones morbosâ— pellendos diuine gratie sumat officium vt quic quid in damib vel in locis sidelum hec vndarespersit careat omnium immuÌ„ dits â— liberat a noxla non illic resideat spiritus pestilens noÌ„ aura corruÌ„pens diseedant omnesinsidie laten tis inimite c. Item vt 〈…〉 〈…〉 The coniuting of the vvater A plaister for all sores The vertue of Iesus Christ Chaunged reserred to the creatures The order and vse of ceremomes chaunged The difference betvveene a good Philosopher a charmer Magician The Sacraments The fire y god of the chaldeâ—s Persiansâ— Hier. Nicol. in Genes 12. d. 27. Tareh Abraham Cal. Rod lec aut li 15. ca. 15 Iosua 24. a. 2 Liui. lt 1. 5 Macro Satur lt t. c. t. 12 plu in Num. ex Camd Ouid. Fast 1 6. Stralâ— li. 9 Plat. in vit Sabâ—nt Cal. aul lec li 15. ca. 14. August de cin Des. lâ— 21. c. 6 Phin. li 1. ca. 1 Idolatry of the sire of the Planets Lue. Flor in Numa Flat de Pbilo dogm VA in Camillo God compared to the fire Deut. 4. d. 24. Hebr. 12. g. 19. Exo. 3. a. 2. Act. 7. d. 31. 3. Reg. 18. f. 33 Rxo. 3. 2. 2. Act. 7. d. 31. Images the instruments of the Diuel The titles of the Images The povver of the fire about the others gods Xetxes The temples burned In Asia Solin ca. 53. Temple of Diana the EphestaÌ„ Act. 19. e. 24 Strab. â—â— 14 Ph. li. 16. c. 41. â—â— 36. ca. 34 The Persians without Temple and Images In Numâ— Dionys Halicar in Numa Ould Fast. â— The temple of Diana burned Gehlia Herostrotus Soli. ca. 53 Couetous of renovvne The natiuitle cf Alexander Olympiss Suiadas in dict Canop God Canopus The crafte and disceite of the Priest of Canopus Cal. Rho. lec aut li. 15. c. 15. The victory of Canopus The fire â—â—ter 〈◊〉 gods of y Papists 〈◊〉 on of the paseall tire Rat d. ui off li 6. Rab de benecer The interpretatioÌ„ of the Benediction of the nevv nee Luc. 12. g. 49. Iohn 1. a 9 8. b. 9. a. 5. ler. 5. d. 14. 23. s 29 The signification of the perpetuall fire of the burnt offring Leuit. 6. b. 13. Heb. 9. c. 11. 10. e. 11. 1. Pet. 4. c. 13 Plutus in Num. Macrob. Satur. li. â— ca. 12 The new fire of the Panims Val. Max. li. 1. cap. 1. The fire of Vesta Plut. in Camillo ouid Fast 6. The Paschall Taper Rat. diui off li. 6. Rab. de den cer Zozmie and Theodorus The most puissaunt god of the Priestes The holy and â—â—ered fire of the Persias â—rs Mark. t. cal Râ—ls lec 〈◊〉 8 aa 2. The holy hoâ—â— The pracction of the serst God and the ho y fir e. The strength of the gold and of Yren Augustin The golde pale The fise made a god Rom. 4. 2. 5 Est 43. b. 11 A true lustory of the Priestes god burned Tevves among the christiaus Exconci Aurel An other history The fire kindeled in the tempâ—e of Vesta Metellus Dyont in Numa Ouid. Fast 6 Palla lium The hand kercheife of Chamber Pli. li. 7. c. 43 Ouid. Fast 3 Ancyla Luil li. 1. Diana of the Ephesians Act. 19. c. 24. Disputacions of the asshes of the hoste The accidens burned Accidens vvith Out substaiuice The trne fire Mat. 3. c. li. Act. 2. 3. â— The gods of the fire and vvater The Aquaticall theology Fast 2. Purgations Fast 2. Veniall sinnes put avvay by vvater Mortall sinnes Mat 12. c. 32 1. Iohn 5. c. 13. Veniall sinnes Rom. 8. a. 1. 4. Sent. dist Tho. par 4. q. 7. ar 2. in Ma 6. Pope Alexan. 5. de consec dist 3. cap. aquam A comparison betvveene theasshet of a Heyfer theâ—roater 4. Reg. 2. d. 21 The bloude of Iesus Heb. 9. d. 13 Leuit. 16. c. 14 The error of y
woemen which followed Iesus Christe from Galile vntill he was buryed willinge to anointe him in his sepulchre dyd not thinke of his resurrection but did thinke to haue founde him dead as the Angells rebuked them saying why seeke yee the liuinge amonge the dead There is no doubte but that there was yet in them humayne affection towardes the bodye of Iesus Christe as wee haue towardes the dead But to the ende that wee maye haue no more neede to dispute muche of it wylt thou bee contented if I doe alledge vnto thee Augustine agaynste Augustine To whome haddest thou rather staye eyther vppon Saincte Augustine followinge the opinion of men wythout the Scripture and speakinge doubtfullye as vncerteyne or vnto hym and other auncient Doctours wyth the holy Scripture Eusebius I doe not thincke that Sainct Augustine would speake against himselfe nor the he hath bene contrary vnto the holy Scripture nor to the auncient Doctors Theophilus Thou canst not shewe vnto mee that hee hath affirmed the Purgatorye certeynlye But I will declare vnto thee places by the whiche hee hath altogether abolyshed it Marke howe hee hath put none other Purgatorye then the bloude of Iesus Christe hee sayth speakinge of Porphyras a Platonist that hee hath not knowen Iesus Christe to bee the begynninge thorowe whose incarnation wee are purged For hee shoulde haue then acknowledged a Purgatorye And in an other place hee sayth Wee haue then the bictorye in his name which hath taken mannes fleshe and hath liued without sinne to the ende that by hym beeiâ—ge the Priest and the sacrifice we are made the remyssion of sinnes That is to saye thorowe the medyatour of God and men the man Iesus Christe who in hys owne person hath purged our sinnes and restored be agayne vnto god For men are not seperated from God but thorowe sinne for which it lyeth not in vs thorowe our owne power and strength to purge them in this lyfe but therow the mercy God thorow his clemeney not thorowe our power For that vertue whiche is called ours whatsoeuer it bee it is graunted vnto vs thorowe his goodnesse Doth hee not cleerelye shewe that the purgation of sinnes is done in this lyfe and yet not thorowe our owne righteousnesse nor vertue Holve can it then bee done in the other lyfe thorowe the vertue and merytes of an other Furthermore hee manyfestly sayth the soules of the good men after they are seperated from the body are at rest and wee muste not doubt of it but those of the wicked are punished vntyll such time as the bodyes of those doe ryse againe to eternall lyfe and of these heere to eternall death whiche is called the seconde death But is it possible to speake more cleerelye and purely of Iesus Christe and of the Purgatorye that wee haue in him then when hee sayth Thorowe his death that is to saye by one onelye and true sacrifice which hath bene offered for vs hee hath purged abolythed and put out all that that had anye saultes in vs Wherefore the hygher power and those of authoritie doe bolde and keepe vs for to bee punyshed And by his resurrection hath called vnto a newe lyfe wee which were predestyned hee hath iustified those that hee called and glorified the iustified Beholde woords very cleere And speaking of the opinion of Plato he sayth Those which are of that opinion doe thincke that after that one is deud there is no other paines then of Purgatorye for to purge sinnes Alyttlo after hee sayth Wee confesse that in this mortall life there is a certeyne Purgatory paine It seemeth that hee somewhat agreeth that the tribulations and aduersities that man suffereth in this world do serue him for a purgation of his sinnes the which yet neuerthelesse they dare not to attribute but to Iesus Christ Although that we doe commonly say of him which hath had much euil griefe in this world the he hath had heere his Purgatory For that tasteth muche of the opinion of Plato But Sainct Augustin doth not make ther meÌ„tioÌ„ of any paineâ— of purgatoy after this life but he sayth playnely that the soules of the faythfull do rest after the deathe of the bodye But what wilt thou more cléerer then when hée sayeth Some doe beleeue that those also whiche haue not abandoned the name of Christ and which haue bene baptized in hys Church and haue not belie cutte off from the same thorow anye schisme or heresie that in whatsoeuer sinnes they haue lyued in the which they shall not deface and put away thorowe penaunce nor redeemed thorow doing of almes beedes but shall perseuer and continue in them continually vntill the last daye of their lyfe shall be saued thorow the fire Although that according to the greatnesse of theire sinnes and misdéedes that fire shall bée diuturnall but not eternall But mée thincketh that those that doe beléeue this and yet neuerthelesse are catholikes are deceyued thorowe mans beneuolence For the holy Scripture if one doe looke and search in it aunswereth an other thing Thou seest héere Eusebius that be speaketh of the fire of Purgatory whatsoeuer thinge he hath spoken at other time And sayth moreouer that there is but two wayes to wit one of dampnation and an other of saluation But marke well his owne words The fayth of the catholikes thorowe the diuine authoritie doth first beleeue that there is a kingdome of heauen Secondly that there is a hell in the which euerye apostate and straunger to the fayth of Christe is punyshed Wee are altogether ignoraunt of the thirde But wée doe not finde in the holy Scriptures that there is any It seemeth to mee that hée speaketh very cléerely and that those authorities ought to suffice thee against all that that thou canst alledge of the auncient Doctors in the fauour of Purgatory Yet neuerthelesse the better to vanquish and pull thée down I wil yet shew foorth vnto thee some sentences of the most auncient Doctoures Marke what Tertulian sayth It seemeth vnto euery one that is wise which haue heard somtime spoken of the fields Ehseus that it hath some locall determination which hath bene called Abrahams bosome for to receyue the soules of his children and that the same region or countrey is not celestiall but it is yet neuer the lesse more higher then hell in which the soules of the righteous doe rest vntyll such time as the consumation of the thinges restoreth the resurrection of all men thorowe perfect rewarde I doe not prayse that which Tertulian hath determyned of the place wythout witnesse of the Scripture but I thincke it a very daungerous thinge to define of suche thinges wythout wytnesse of the same and I had rather staio my selfe vpon the sentence of sainct Augustine which sayth that it shoulde bee very good that an vncerteyne thing of which not onely the Scriptures doe make no mention of it but doe speake the contrary that
according to the rules of their Logicke one cannot draw a consequence whatsoeuer it be of propositions altogether negatiues If then of negatiues a consequence negatiue is nothing worth how shall the affirmatiue be good such as you woulde héere conclude Why one you not conclude rather This sinne is not pardoned in this world nor in the worlde to come It shall be then neuer pardoned For if there be a pardon it cannot be but in this worlde or in the other The consequence after this manner should be good For the Antecedent hath comprehended al the times and places to whome the sinne may be pardoned And after that sorte doth Saint Marke expounde it of whome the glose is more certeine then yours For in steede of that that Saint Mathew hath sayd neyther in this world nor in the other he hath said neuer Wherein it appeareth that those two propositions are equiualent and of equalytie That sinne is not pardoned neyther in this worlde nor in the other and that sinne is neuer pardoned Furthermore you doe contesse that it must bée that the fault of sinne the which maketh man subiect to dampnation be alredy pardoned in this world that ther remayneth but the payne the which he must beare and suffer in Purgatory For you doe putte none other difference betwéene the soules of the blessed which are already at rest and those of Purgatory and the dampned but that the Saints which are already in Paradise are pardoned of payne and fault Those which are in Purgatory are not pardoned but of the fault but they must heare and suffer the payne due to sinne vntill such time as they haue satisfied for it and that they be perfectly purged But yet neuerthelesse bicause that the faulte is pardoned them their payne is not to them eternall as the same of the dampned bicause that the fault of dampnation is ta ken away from them the which abideth and continueth vpon the reprobate Now Iesus Christ speaketh héere of sinne which dampneth the which agreeth not but to the reprobate Wherefore he speaketh of the faulte of sinne the which is not pardoned in Purgatory according to your doctrine for in the same one can but release the payne It followeth then that although that we doe agrée and graunt vnto you that ther is some forgiuensse of sinne in the other worlde euen as you woulde conclude of the words of Iesus Christ that the same should nothing at all relieue and helpe vp your Purgatory Wée must then consider the manner of speaking by the which Iesus Christ woulde declare how greate and detestable that sinne is and to take away all the hope of pardon vnto those which in that poynt will resist the truth knowen and will goe about to quenche and putte out the lyght of the holy Ghost which is offered vnto them And therefore hée was not contented to say that sinne shall neuer be forgiuen and pardoned But the better for to augment and amplyfie the thing hée woulde vse that manner of speaking which comprehendeth the iudgement of God the which already euery man féeleth in his conscience in this lyfe and that latter iudgement which shall be manifested in the resurrection Wherefore hee sayth briefely that in this same lyfe in the which God hath giuen to man time and space to conuert and tourne himselfe vnto him that sinne shall neuer be pardoned and yet lesse in that latter iudgement in which God will giue his latter sentence except peraduenture there were some which in him had some hope But it followeth not thererefore that he hath forgiuenesse of any sinne in the worlde to come which shall not bée héere pardoned But to the ende that thou mayst yet better knowe that Iesus Christ hath not spoken in that sorte without iust reason we must consider that he furnisheth vs héere with a good witnesse against the Originists and Anabaptiâ—â—s which doe promise forgiuenesse of sins vnto the Diuells and reprobate in the other worlde Although I doe not beleeue that Origines was of such an opinion For his bookes doe witnesse vnto vs the contrary But for to retourne vnto the words of Iesus Christ sith that Iesus Christ sayth so cléerely that that sinne which is proper vnto them shall not haue forgiuenesse in this world nor in the other it followeth then that it shall neuer haue or els it must be that they finde out an other thirde worlde euen as they haue founde out a temporall eternitie to the which they doe giue an ende and an eternall fire which is temporall not perdurable But although it should be so that there should be in the world to come some forgiuenesse of sinnes it followeth not therefore that it is necessary to haue there a Purgatory Now first of all there is no certeine witnesse that there is any remission and forgiuenesse after this lyfe but a certeine humayne coniecture and presumption Then if that proposition be buylded vppon humayne coniecture and presumption yet that which affirmeth the Purgatory is best sith that the same is none other thing but a coniecture and presumption buylded vpon other coniectures and presumptions For put the case that there should be forgiuenesse in the other lyfe coulde it not be in any other place rather then in Purgatory or at an other time then you do there limit Could it not haue bene giuen either by and by after that one is dead or delayed vntill the latter iudgement But which of the auncientest doctors of the church is there that euer hath expounded that place in such sence as thou takest it Chrisostome expeundeth it after this manner Sith that that sinne is not veniall vnto you you shall be grieuously punished both in this lyfe and in the other He meaneth none other thing by those words but that the Iewes which resisted the holy Ghost shall not be only punished in this world for to be chastised and corrected as the Corinthians were or onely in the other world as the rich man was but they shall be héere and there as those of Sodome and Gomorra For they were destroyed by the Romaines and haue not escaped eternall dampnation There is nothing in this exposition which can serue you Those which are of an opinion y the sâ—â—les doe abide vncertein of their saluation or dampnation and that they may yet profit or empaire betwéene this and the great iudgement In like manner those which doe esteme and thinke that the gospel shal be preached vnto the soules of the dead to which it hath not bene heere declared shall they not haue more colour héere to build their reasons and arguments then you for your Purgatory For at the leastwise those latter héere shal haue more appearaunce aâ—cording to the scripture bicause that they may or can alledge some places which doe séeme expresly inough to fauour that opinion And yet they haue other reasons very apparant where you haue not but certeine