Selected quad for the lemma: sin_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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A04537
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An answer to Maister H. Iacob his defence of the churches and minstery of England. By Francis Iohnson an exile of Iesus Christ
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Johnson, Francis, 1562-1618.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624. Defence of the churches and ministery of Englande.
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1600
(1600)
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STC 14658; ESTC S121679
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284,840
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262
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be_v observe_v and_o mr_n jacob_n desire_v to_o resolve_v they_o in_o his_o next_o i_o will_v now_o proceed_v to_o show_v the_o weakness_n and_o insufficiency_n of_o his_o present_a pretend_a defence_n where_o for_o more_o evidence_n of_o the_o truth_n i_o will_v first_o set_v down_o the_o reason_n heretofore_o allege_v against_o his_o comparison_n and_o then_o answer_v his_o cavil_n now_o bring_v against_o they_o chap_n 2._o the_o first_o reason_n against_o mr_n jacobs_n comparison_n as_o it_o be_v first_o propound_v fran._n johnson_n infidel_n idolater_n profane_a and_o godless_a person_n may_v marry_v together_o with_o consent_n and_o choice_n of_o each_o other_o notwithstanding_o their_o profaneness_n and_o their_o marriage_n be_v therein_o lawful_a but_o it_o stand_v not_o so_o with_o choice_n of_o minister_n in_o the_o church_n for_o profane_v godless_a person_n such_o as_o these_o assembly_n consist_v of_o be_v never_o right_o gather_v together_o according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n remain_v in_o subjection_n and_o bondage_n to_o their_o false_a antichristian_a office_n and_o court_n consist_v of_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o capable_a of_o choose_v and_o join_v to_o a_o true_a minister_n in_o this_o estate_n as_o infidel_n and_o such_o like_a may_v marry_v in_o their_o estate_n therefore_o the_o comparison_n hold_v not_o neither_o be_v such_o choice_n of_o a_o minister_n by_o such_o people_n lawful_a h._n jacob_n his_o reply_n the_o strength_n of_o this_o reason_n stand_v in_o these_o last_o word_n but_o these_o assembly_n consist_v of_o such_o people_n 1._o profane_a &_o godless_a person_n 2._o never_n right_o gather_v together_o according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n 3._o remain_v in_o subjection_n and_o bondage_n to_o their_o false_a and_o antichristian_a officer_n &_o court_n ergo_fw-la etc._n etc._n these_o three_o accusation_n avail_v nothing_o at_o all_o the_o first_o accusation_n be_v from_o our_o question_n 1._o accusation_n 1._o for_o we_o speak_v of_o a_o christian_a people_n but_o you_o of_o assembly_n consist_v of_o profane_a and_o godless_a person_n if_o you_o say_v our_o assembly_n all_o &_o whole_o be_v such_o that_o be_v false_a if_o you_o say_v some_o be_v of_o they_o we_o speak_v not_o if_o you_o say_v in_o all_o &_o every_o one_o of_o our_o assembly_n there_o be_v some_o yea_o many_o open_a profane_a and_o godless_a person_n 1._o it_o be_v too_o bold_a a_o say_n and_o without_o knowledge_n to_o speak_v so_o of_o all_o 2._o if_o it_o be_v true_a yet_o it_o be_v false_a to_o say_v our_o assembly_n consist_v of_o such_o or_o to_o think_v that_o whole_a company_n of_o christian_n by_o such_o commixture_n be_v make_v unholy_a profane_a and_o godless_a which_o be_v contrary_a to_o these_o scripture_n mat._n 23.2.3_o luke_n 2.21.22_o &_o 1.6_o act._n 21.23.26_o 1_o sam._n 2.17_o &_o cap._n 1._o vers_fw-la 3.9_o rev._n 2.20.21_o &_o 3.1.4_o 1_o cor._n 3.3_o gal._n 3.1.2_o &_o 4.11.16_o &_o 5.4.9_o the_o second_o accusation_n that_o our_o assembly_n be_v never_o right_o gather_v together_o at_o the_o first_o according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n i_o deny_v it_o 2_o accusation_n 2_o especial_o towch_v many_o famous_a congregation_n in_o the_o land_n where_o the_o gospel_n be_v not_o unknowen_a before_o the_o queen_n commandment_n come_v to_o urge_v they_o to_o receive_v this_o doctrine_n and_o if_o the_o manner_n of_o receive_v it_o then_o in_o those_o hard_a and_o doubtful_a time_n and_o hazardous_a beginning_n be_v not_o so_o perfect_a nor_o so_o exact_a as_o shall_v have_v be_v yet_o we_o may_v see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o 19.20_o of_o 2_o chro._n 30.17.18_o 19.20_o hezechias_n and_o 33.15.16.17_o and_o 2_o chr._n 33.15.16.17_o manasses_n and_o etc._n and_o zepha_n 1.4.5_o &_o 3.1_o jer._n 3.6_o etc._n etc._n &_o 4.1_o etc._n etc._n &_o 5.1_o etc._n etc._n josias_n reformation_n that_o god_n impute_v it_o not_o to_o such_o godly_a and_o zealous_a restorer_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o those_o day_n if_o you_o say_v the_o untaught_a people_n then_o sudden_o receive_v the_o gospel_n by_o commandment_n not_o by_o hear_v can_v not_o believe_v at_o the_o first_o though_o they_o profess_v and_o therefore_o at_o the_o first_o be_v no_o true_a christian_n nor_o church_n i_o answer_v 1._o though_o many_o receive_v the_o gospel_n for_o the_o commandment_n sake_n yet_o who_o can_v say_v that_o now_o they_o all_o general_o want_v all_o knowledge_n and_o all_o faith_n the_o word_n then_o have_v be_v in_o many_o place_n teach_v very_o many_o book_n scatter_v much_o conference_n daily_a consultation_n and_o disputation_n use_v and_o the_o blood_n of_o the_o martyr_n have_v preach_v so_o loud_o and_o so_o late_o before_o 2._o it_o be_v not_o so_o sudden_a there_o be_v follow_v be_v from_o november_n the_o 17._o till_o midsummer_n follow_v more_o than_o half_a a_o year_n for_o the_o people_n to_o hear_v learn_v and_o consider_v before_o the_o commandment_n come_v so_o that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v count_v mere_a force_n and_o compulsion_n that_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o our_o queen_n reign_n bring_v we_o to_o the_o truth_n 3._o i_o will_v know_v you_o condemn_v not_o i_o hope_v all_o reformation_n command_v and_o compel_v by_o the_o magistrate_n 2_o chron._n 34.32.33_o &_o 33.16_o &_o 15.13_o .._o see_v therefore_o the_o assembly_n thus_o open_o and_o advise_o submit_v to_o the_o proclaim_a truth_n who_o see_v not_o but_o they_o confess_v therein_o their_o former_a error_n and_o profess_v their_o present_a faith_n and_o undertake_v a_o new_a life_n from_o that_o which_o before_o they_o lead_v though_o happy_o not_o so_o formal_o nor_o so_o perfect_o as_o be_v to_o have_v be_v wish_v but_o they_o receive_v all_o together_o papist_n atheist_n ignorant_a man_n and_o all_o dissolute_a liver_n objection_n into_o one_o communion_n and_o fellowship_n indeed_o all_o who_o after_o this_o advizement_n and_o notice_n take_v submit_v to_o and_o receyve_v this_o doctrine_n answer_n these_o be_v all_o receyve_v in_o and_o therefore_o no_o open_a profess_a papist_n athiste_n nor_o other_o heretic_n as_o for_o ignorant_a man_n it_o be_v not_o possible_a but_o many_o will_v escape_v among_o the_o rest_n in_o so_o great_a &_o so_o general_a reformation_n of_o a_o public_a state_n and_o so_o questionless_a it_o be_v in_o hezechias_n manasses_n &_o josias_n reformation_n 2._o chron._n which_o we_o note_v before_o the_o notorious_a dissolute_a &_o wicked_a some_o be_v reclaim_v all_o undertake_v another_o profession_n and_o a_o new_a appearance_n of_o christianity_n and_o no_o doubt_n the_o like_a be_v to_o be_v think_v of_o these_o as_o before_o i_o observe_v touch_v the_o ignorant_a man_n now_o all_o this_o be_v do_v not_o intolerable_o doubtless_o though_o i_o grant_v weak_o and_o corrupt_o &_o very_o like_v even_o to_o your_o own_o receive_n in_o to_o your_o church_n at_o this_o time_n nay_o more_o tolerable_a and_o more_o lawful_a than_o you_o who_o to_o furnish_v only_o one_o congregation_n have_v receive_v many_o answer_v many_o this_o particular_a mr_n jacob_n have_v not_o print_v but_o it_o be_v in_o his_o write_a copy_n which_o i_o answer_v bankrupt_n know_v bad_a man_n and_o very_o ignorant_a yea_o and_o still_o retain_v man_n full_a of_o contention_n and_o bitter_a strife_n 1_o cor._n 3..3_o in_o a_o word_n this_o i_o answer_v that_o which_o disannul_v not_o a_o church_n gather_v and_o settle_v that_o disannul_v it_o not_o in_o the_o gather_n and_o begin_n but_o such_o mixture_n do_v not_o disannul_v a_o church_n gather_v and_o settle_v as_o appear_v above_o in_o the_o scripture_n quote_v against_o the_o first_o accusation_n mat._n 23._o luke_n 2_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o such_o mixture_n do_v not_o disannul_v our_o church_n then_o in_o their_o beginning_n the_o three_o accusation_n be_v our_o assembly_n remain_v in_o obedience_n to_o the_o false_a antichristian_a officer_n 3._o accusation_n 3._o etc._n etc._n let_v this_o be_v our_o general_a sin_n yet_o there_o be_v diversity_n of_o sin_n all_o be_v not_o of_o like_a detestation_n before_o god_n not_o of_o like_a consequence_n against_o us._n i_o say_v not_o that_o any_o sin_n be_v venial_a but_o i_o say_v all_o sin_n by_o their_o nature_n be_v mortal_a yet_o do_v they_o not_o all_o alike_o abolish_v we_o from_o christ_n nor_o deprive_v we_o of_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n now_o this_o sin_n of_o outward_a church_n order_n be_v not_o of_o the_o most_o heinous_a nor_o extreme_a disobedience_n there_o be_v sin_n against_o the_o 11.12.13.14_o the_o 1_o cor._n 15_o 2.3.4_o rom._n 1.25_o 1_o cor._n 3.10_o 11.12.13.14_o foundation_n and_o there_o be_v sin_n that_o stand_v with_o the_o foundation_n ibid._n wherein_o man_n live_v and_o die_v ignorant_o without_o particular_a repentance_n may_v be_v save_v such_o be_v the_o sin_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n and_o estate_n in_o christ_n
late_a have_v see_v before_o their_o eye_n the_o mischief_n that_o follow_v upon_o that_o decline_a which_o the_o other_o of_o former_a time_n neither_o do_v nor_o can_v add_v hereunto_o the_o great_a unlikenes_n when_o they_o be_v compare_v together_o in_o their_o office_n entrance_n title_n prerogative_n court_n canon_n jurisdiction_n and_o other_o proceeding_n and_o tell_v i_o why_o you_o leave_v out_o cyprian_a in_o your_o print_a book_n who_o you_o name_v in_o your_o write_a copy_n for_o which_o cause_n i_o have_v now_o also_o note_v his_o name_n with_o the_o rest_n be_v it_o so_o that_o you_o see_v already_o how_o he_o be_v against_o you_o assure_v yourself_o mr_n jacob_n that_o so_o will_v the_o rest_n also_o be_v find_v less_o or_o more_o i_o always_o except_o the_o prelate_n of_o rome_n whensoever_o due_a trial_n and_o comparison_n be_v make_v which_o i_o neither_o need_v nor_o purpose_n here_o to_o stand_v upon_o see_v these_o thing_n be_v purposely_o handle_v and_o already_o publish_v by_o other_o well_o know_v and_o approve_v also_o of_o yourselves_o as_o by_o mr_n beza_n against_o saravia_n t._n c._n his_o 1._o and_o 2._o reply_n the_o demonstration_n etc._n etc._n i_o omit_v also_o that_o you_o be_v become_v persecuter_n whereas_o the_o other_o be_v persecute_v therefore_o your_o sin_n be_v far_o the_o great_a and_o many_o other_o thing_n i_o may_v allege_v but_o it_o suffice_v we_o and_o hereon_o we_o rest_v that_o your_o prelacy_n and_o other_o ministry_n worship_n etc._n etc._n be_v none_o of_o christ_n ordinance_n appoint_v in_o his_o word_n if_o you_o be_v other_o wise_a mind_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o book_n of_o god_n 8.20_o joh._n 17.17_o psa_fw-la 119.105_o esa_n 8.20_o you_o know_v that_o â€_o it_o alone_o be_v the_o word_n of_o truth_n and_o aught_o to_o be_v unto_o all_o the_o lantern_n of_o our_o foot_n hence_o forth_o therefore_o speak_v according_a to_o that_o word_n and_o seek_v not_o by_o the_o less_o sin_n of_o other_o to_o hide_v and_o nourish_v your_o own_o far_o great_a otherwise_o remember_v and_o apply_v to_o yourselves_o the_o judgement_n that_o be_v write_v exod._n 20.5_o ps_n 129.21_o gal._n 1.8.9_o rev._n 14.9.10.11_o and_o 22_o 18.19_o and_o note_v these_o thing_n withal_o 1._o first_o that_o here_o you_o speak_v of_o such_o as_o live_v and_o die_v in_o your_o error_n ignorant_o now_o what_o defence_n be_v this_o for_o yourself_o mr_n jacob_n and_o for_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o church_n throughout_o the_o land_n who_o do_v not_o only_o know_v these_o error_n but_o have_v also_o teach_v profess_v and_o witness_v against_o they_o heretofore_o 2._o second_o that_o here_o you_o be_v glad_a to_o use_v the_o same_o pretence_n as_o rusty_a weapon_n against_o the_o truth_n which_o be_v sometime_o use_v by_o d._n whitgift_n and_o the_o papist_n for_o defence_n of_o the_o prelacy_n and_o find_v to_o be_v of_o no_o force_n at_o all_o 3._o three_o that_o whatsoever_o you_o speak_v here_o in_o excuse_n of_o your_o conviction_n may_v be_v likewise_o allege_v by_o the_o papist_n and_o other_o heretic_n for_o defence_n of_o themselves_o viz_n that_o they_o be_v not_o all_o convict_a &_o sin_n against_o their_o conscience_n also_o that_o such_o and_o such_o point_n be_v not_o acknowledge_v even_o of_o ignorance_n in_o a_o thousand_o to_o one_o among_o they_o that_o many_o of_o they_o and_o not_o of_o the_o simple_a hold_v their_o way_n to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a and_o right_a course_n and_o almost_o all_o of_o they_o to_o be_v indifferent_a and_o lawful_a very_o few_o and_o scarce_o any_o that_o see_v it_o to_o be_v mere_o wicked_a and_o intolerable_a yet_o these_o be_v the_o reason_n and_o armour_n of_o proof_n you_o bring_v for_o defence_n of_o your_o hierarchy_n and_o church-estate_n and_o what_o shall_v i_o speak_v of_o your_o manifold_a contradiction_n fearful_a clause_n notable_a untruth_n etc._n etc._n your_o contradiction_n as_o when_o you_o grant_v here_o 61_o pag._n 28._o 61_o this_o be_v your_o general_a sin_n and_o yet_o say_v before_o you_o hold_v these_o to_o be_v christ_n ordinance_n your_o pretend_a excuse_n that_o you_o speak_v some_o thing_n in_o your_o own_o person_n some_o thing_n in_o your_o church_n i_o have_v show_v before_o to_o be_v vain_a and_o against_o yourself_o pag._n 55._o 56._o 72._o another_o contradiction_n in_o that_o you_o profess_v the_o ancient_a bishop_n and_o you_o have_v decline_v viz_n from_o the_o truth_n and_o way_n of_o christ_n or_o else_o tell_v we_o in_o your_o next_o from_z what_o and_o yet_o plead_v as_o if_o your_o church_n general_o be_v either_o ignorant_a hereof_o or_o hold_v your_o present_a government_n to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a and_o right_a kind_n or_o at_o least_o to_o be_v indifferent_a and_o lawful_a etc._n etc._n for_o how_o i_o pray_v you_o can_v these_o stand_v together_o if_o you_o say_v yourself_o know_v thus_o much_o but_o as_o for_o any_o other_o that_o know_v it_o they_o be_v very_o few_o and_z searse_z to_o be_v find_v these_o i_o take_v it_o be_v your_o own_o word_n this_o be_v but_o a_o vain_a conceit_n of_o yourself_o and_o such_o as_o be_v still_o accompany_v with_o folly_n there_o be_v no_o doubt_n a_o thousand_o to_o you_o who_o be_v but_o one_o that_o know_v these_o thing_n aswell_o or_o better_v a_o great_a deal_n yea_o i_o know_v many_o of_o your_o church_n myself_o who_o have_v teach_v and_o write_v far_o more_o sound_o and_o godly_a of_o they_o than_o ever_o mr_n jacob_n do_v and_o if_o these_o have_v all_o hold_v their_o peace_n yet_o your_o book_n of_o common_a prayer_n as_o gross_a as_o it_o be_v know_v thus_o much_o commination_n much_o in_o the_o commination_n that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o godly_a disclpline_n which_o it_o say_v be_v much_o to_o be_v wish_v that_o it_o may_v be_v restore_v again_o the_o particular_a there_o mention_v i_o stand_v not_o upon_o i_o note_v it_o only_o for_o this_o that_o you_o may_v see_v even_o by_o that_o book_n receive_v among_o you_o general_o how_o your_o church_n neither_o be_v so_o ignorant_a of_o the_o estate_n of_o thing_n in_o former_a time_n as_o you_o pretend_v neither_o think_v your_o present_a government_n to_o be_v the_o only_a true_a kind_n etc._n etc._n not_o to_o speak_v of_o your_o so_o many_a and_o so_o public_a suit_n to_o the_o parliament_n to_o have_v it_o remove_v as_o be_v unlawful_a and_o antichristian_a neither_o of_o the_o many_o book_n print_v with_o privilege_n avowch_v as_o much_o a_o three_o contradiction_n till_o you_o clear_v it_o better_o note_v in_o this_o also_o that_o you_o acknowledge_v they_o in_o k._n edw._n time_n be_v godly_a learned_a and_o yet_o insinuate_v withal_o as_o if_o they_o be_v little_o better_a than_o tyme-servers_a your_o fearful_a clause_n import_v partly_o a_o yield_a of_o the_o cause_n partly_o a_o seek_v of_o start_a hole_n and_o excuse_n for_o your_o sin_n as_o when_o you_o say_v 1._o let_v this_o be_v our_o general_a sin_n yet_o there_o be_v diversity_n of_o sin_n 2._o all_o sin_n by_o their_o nature_n be_v mortal_a yet_o do_v they_o not_o all_o alike_o abolish_v we_o from_o christ_n 3._o this_o sin_n of_o outward_a church-order_n be_v not_o of_o the_o most_o heinous_a nor_o extreme_a disobedience_n 4._o there_o be_v sin_n wherein_o man_n live_v and_o die_v ignorant_o without_o particular_a repentance_n may_v be_v save_v 5._o no_o great_a be_v now_o in_o our_o bishop_n present_o especial_o towch_v our_o church_n and_o minister_n too_o general_o 6._o if_o you_o say_v we_o be_v all_o convict_v now_o it_o be_v false_a 7._o the_o godly_a learned_a protestant_n in_o king_n edward_n time_n be_v not_o utter_o ignorant_a of_o this_o point_n of_o reformation_n 8._o the_o jew_n be_v not_o general_o plain_o convict_v 9_o our_o assembly_n be_v not_o all_o godless_a and_o profane_a our_o sin_n destroy_v not_o faith_n &_o christianity_n in_o our_o whole_a assembly_n etc._n etc._n as_o if_o yourself_o think_v it_o do_v in_o some_o your_o notable_a untruth_n also_o be_v many_o as_o when_o you_o allege_v mr_n beza_n upon_o act._n 15.20_o as_o if_o he_o speak_v of_o such_o jew_n as_o do_v personal_o hate_v and_o persecute_v christ_n where_o as_o he_o speak_v express_o of_o such_o as_o beleve_v in_o christ_n but_o be_v withal_o zealous_a of_o the_o law_n be_v not_o yet_o persuade_v of_o the_o abolishment_n thereof_o again_o when_o from_o he_o you_o will_v teach_v that_o they_o which_o do_v personal_o hate_v and_o persecute_v christ_n yet_o be_v the_o true_a church_n until_o the_o temple_n and_o city_n be_v destroy_v yea_o and_o save_v though_o they_o repent_v it_o not_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o these_o and_o many_o the_o like_a scripture_n act._n 2.40.47_o and_o 13.45.46.50.51_o and_o 19.8.9_o 1._o thes_n