corruption remaining still in them whereas his Will was to the good his Mind and Affections were on things above when converted and victory obtained and the viâ—e affections and desires mortified which they that are Christs have crucified and his saying With my mind I serve the law of God but with my members the law of sin related to the state of his Warfare and shewes an opposition in his mind against serving sin But thy Doctrine signifyes thus much as if he had said with my Mind I serve sin and with my Members I serve sin yea with my Mind Will and Affections I serve sin and the Law of God both this were a serving two Masters And then where 's the contrarâ—eâ—y and opposition thou speakst of afterward Pr. I said There was Flesh and Spirit in him so that neither the operations of the Flesh or Spirit were compleat and perfect because of the opposition they have one to the other the Flesh and Spirit are contrary one to another Ans. Thy making the opposition between the Flâ—sh and the Spirit and their contrariety one to the other thy reason to prove that neither the operations of the Flesh or the Spirit were compleat and perfect it proves the quite contrary for the Spirits opposition to the Flesh and its contrary operation proves that the Spirits operation is pure and compleat against that which lusts against it and so against the fruits and works of the Flesh which are absoluâ—ly also opposite to the fruits of the Spirit yet they through the Spirit came to mortify those deeds and works of the Flesh which were corrupt Pr. Ye cannot do those things that ye would because he could not Will them perfectly Ans. It s God that works in the believer both to will and to do and his Work is perfect and to whose Will mans Will ought to be subject Pr. If all the imperative faculties of the Will and Mind and inferiour of the affections be fully and strongly joyned for any action the members of the body cannot but be obedientially c. Ans. Then such as have the mind of Christ whose Wills and Minds are subject unto his as theirs whom he calls his Brethren and whose affections also are set upon things above such have unity with Christ and in their faculties as thou callest them and therefore their members must needs be obedientially subject as theirs who are sanctified throughout in Body Soul and Spirit Pr. What part of him did sin dwell in if neither in his Mind Conscience Affections c. Ans. He said In his flesh dwelt no good thing but it was not all his life time of continuance Pr. If you can find out any other faculty of the Soul which can be a seat for sin to dwell in then these three the Schooles will be beholding to you for your new Philosophy Ans. We may therefore see what Schooles and Discipline you have that would be beholding to us to find out some other faculty of the Soul for sin to dwell in but me-thinks thou shouldst intend better then thy words import and have said You would be bebeholding to us to shew you another which is no seat for sin and that you should not seek for more room for sin for it hath as much room amongst you as you can afford it in all the facultys both superior and inferior both in the Wills Minds and Affections But so it had not in the Children of the Light Pr. The pure Protestant Religion which is held out from Scriptures Answ. Is that your pure Protestant Religion that pleads for sin in all the facultyes of the Soul An impure Religion and Doctrine of the Ministers of sin pure Religion where it is there 's a keeping unspotted of the world Pr. There is a Righteousness of Christs Sufferings and Merit imputed c. which begets Peace which may consist with sin in a believer though thereby no Condemnation to him Answ. Christs Righteousness is known to be pure and perfect and not to consist with sin for they are inconsistant and the believer that 's come to a fellowship of Christs sufferings and a conformity to his death to know his Righteous Will by faith imputed he walks after the spirit not after the flesh and to such there 's no condemnation Rom. 1.8 Pr. Cleanse thou me from my secret sins Answ. Then let not secret sin remain in me all my Life time let not sin and corruption remain in all the faculties of my Soul so long as I live Pr. There is a Righteousness which is the same with Sanctification which is not perfect and compleat therefore no man by this inherent Righteousness is Justified Answ. What Righteousness and whose is it which is the same with Sanctification which is not perfect Is it Christs yea or nay And Is Sanctification imperfect in this Life And Is this that thou callest inherent Righteousness In this thou hast but acted the part of Sathans mâ—ssengers as hore-tofore and contradicted the Apostles Doctrine who preached to present men perfect in Christ and exhorted to purge themselves from all filthiness both of flesh and spirit and so to a perfecting of holiness in the fear of God And Was not Christ made unto them Righteousness Sanctification and Redemption And is he devided or imperfect in what he is to the Saints What grose and faâ—se stuff hast thou implyed and vented And it was they that were washed and sanctified that were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the spirit of our God See 1 Cor. 6.11 Pr. You do not admit of this Doctrine Your new Light you pretend is nothing but old damnable Popery Ans. Our new Light as thou callest it is the Light of Christ the same the Apostles preached and bears witness to their Doctrine against thine and the Priests who oppose it And its Blasphemous and Damnable in thee to deem this our Light nothing but old damnable Popery it will appear that thou art nearer Popery then we in thy contending for sin term of Life but onely thou tellest us not of a Purgatory Pr Paul had victory begun but not compleated except from the the Condemning Power of Sin but the Reigning Power and Defiling was not subdued totally c. Ans. Confusion And contrary to Pauls Doctrine and state to tell of victory and yet the Reigning Power and Defiling not subdued totally as much as to say his Enemy was conquered and yet Reigned still whereas he said He had fought the good fight of faith and had kept the faith he was more then a conquerer through Christ that loved him And they to whom there was no condemnation were in Christ and walked not after the flesh but after the spirit And was there not such as were compleat in Christ to whom Paul wrote and dost not believe that he had attained to as high a growth as any of them to whom he writ or preached consider it Pr. In the present time I am sold under sin
who plead for continuance of sin and lusts in them which if they alwayes be to continue here and cannot be abstained from as thou intimatest then to what purpose was it for Peter to exhort them to abstain from them especially if he had been of thy faith that they could not or had not power to abstain from lust c. But herein thou hast sufficiently discovered whose servant thou art Pr. When they are Believers and begotten they are so freed that the evil one cannot touch them Answ. Much less lead them into Sin or keeps up the reigning power of it in them so long as they live This contradicts all thy corrupt Pleas and Arguments for Sin Pr. They do not fulfil its Lusts as to continue in Sin wilfully and deliberately without repentance yet they are not freed from Sin wholly Answ. Yes wholly when the wicked one hath not power to touch them But thy saying they do not fulfil its Lusts as to continue in Sin wilfully without repentance now may not this be taken that they do continue in Sin Lusts but not wilfully without repentance But do they Sin wilfully with repentance Hast thou cleared Gods Children herein Whereas such as walk after the spirit shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh but are in that which mortifyes the vile affections and desires and subjects the whole man to the will of God Viz. to Righteousness and Holyness Pr. In many things we offend all Answ. But not in Christ the one thing for he that abides in him sinneth not Pr. To be unblamable Is that Grace Is universal in all parts of the renewed man though not absolute c. to be unblameable and unreproveable may stand with Sins of infirmity Answ. To be unblameable is to Live as the Grace teacheth namely To deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live godly and soberly in this present world For Sin and Ungodliness is blameable and reproveable wherever it is it being contrary to the Grace and its teaching which is absolute as well as universal in the renewed man and is not consistent with Sin nor imperfect as you Priests of Scotland have rendered Grace Faith c. as they among you formerly that cursed every one that saith Faith is without Sin and would have all the people to say Amen to it wherein your blind zeal out-runs your understandings and made you discover your folly and madness to set people on cursing yea to curse such as held the Truth contrary to that Doctrine bless and curse not Pr. In the Book of Common Prayer there is a promise To forsake the Devil and all his Works the vain Pomp and Glory of the world and Sinful Lusts of the flesh and be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commandments Many of those who promise may do this and keep it in the sence the Scripture holds that is that they shall disallow purpose and endeavour against those ills Answ. So Here thou hast justified these promises and many of those who promise as keeping it that is sayest thou they shall disallow purpose and endeavour against those ills as if that purpose were a forsaking the Devil and all his Works c. the Sinful Lusts of the flesh a keeping Gods Commandments c. when as thou hast denyed that any may attaine to such a state but they must purpose and endeavour after it when as the promise is absolute to forsake all sin Viz. all the Works of the Devil and to walk in the Commandments of God all their life What a medly hast thou made here like the time-serving Priests that vindicate the Common prayer and Episcopacy after they have denyed it and many of them covenanted against it We thought that the Priests and Kirk of Scotland had been more zealous and sincere in their way against the Episcopal Traditions then thou hast here appeared Will the rest of thy Brethren of the Kirk of Scotland own thee in this matter Or art thou their mouth that thou takest upon thee to be such a contender for the pure Protestant Religion as thou callest it But is that any part of your Religion to tell of God-fathers and God-mothers And to cause tâ—em to promise and vow in the Infants name and for the Iâ—faâ—t as its surety to forsake the Devil and all his Worâ—s c. all â—he Sinful Lusts and desires of the flesh and to keep Gâ—ds holy Will and Commandments when you do not believe it possible so to do in this Life Pr. As many who are commended for keeping his Commands their Sins and Failings are not-with-standing recorded Answ. Sins and Failings are not consistent with keeping Gods Commandments Sin being a transgression of the Law which when transgressed and failed of keeping it is not kept then nor the blameless state stood in Pr. You with gross subtilty bear out this sence That he who at his death is made holy is made holy somtimes before his death Ans. He is sometime a dying before dead if at their death be upon their death or dying as thou sayest yea some are many houres having the symptomes and pangs of death upon them before they are dead and in this sence I supposed thou intendest by saying at their death they are freed c. that it was upon their dying when the throws or pangs of death are upon them or when we commonly say a person is a dying when he breathes very weakly faintly and sometimes with short breathings a little before breath is quite gone and then there must needs be a little space in this Life before the person is quite dead Pr. You might as well infer if one should say that at his death his Soul aod Body are separate that he said they are separate sometime before his death at his death is meant immediatly upon his dying Ans. A false inference put upon my words which doth not at all follow for when the Soul and Body are separate or the Soul is gone out of the Body this is after death now upon dying is not after death for when the Body is without the Spirit it is dead so if thou wilt have it that when the Soul and Body are separate the Beleiver is then free from sin t is not in this Life and then Where 's the Popes Purgatory And who is now guilty of damnable Popery Is this your pure Protestant Religion Pr. I never found but that they Viz. our Brethren said Beleivers Souls either at their death which is immediately upon their death or after death are made perfectly holy and received into glory Answ. Upon dying and after death are two things so it appears still you are devided somewhat in this point sâ—me of you saying upon their dying Beleivers are made perfectly holy others say after death however by this we may observe that your Doctrine tends to make people serve the Devil by living in sin so long as they have any time and strâ—ngth to do any service for him that is till
unsound in thee and thy fellows to oppose the Light and Spirits imediate teachings and Kingdom within which both teacheth sufficiently and opens the Scriptures and leads into all Truth and to Scoff at the true sence-hereof though under the term Enthusiastick or Enthusiasm however ironically and reproachfully rendred by you which if that be dangerous and unfound then is divinely inspired unsound Is this good Doctrine For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in quo Deus est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Deus divine inspired Enthusiasmus an Inspiration it is the inspiration of the Almighty that gives understanding Is this dangerous No unless to the Priests to discover their ignorance And is not the Light Spirit Kingdom within communicated before the Scriptures are truly understood and opened What darkness and error hast thou here implyed and signified And doth not the Light and Spirit bring to the right use and end of the Scriptures which was given by inspiration Priest There is no man free from sin in this life c. Christ doth not totally subdue it in this life For that place 1 Joh. 3 of Christs being manifest to destroy the works of the devil if ye take it so may as well prove that Sathan shall not tempt a Child of God Aâ—sw This plainly enough shews thy confusion and ignorance of Christs manifestation and work and of his Vertue and Blood which destroyes the devils works cleanseth from all sin thorowly purgeth them that believe and follow him Secondly Thy Inference is gross and absurd To charge all with sin whom Sathan Tempts or to make his Tempting Gods Children a reason of their not having â—n totally subdued for Christ was Tempted yet sinned not for the Pâ—ince of darkness found nothing in him And he that abids in him sins not And we being made free from sin and become the Servants of God we have our fruit unto holiness Was not this the good end of Christs coming What sayes Antichrist Satan and his Agents and Sophisters to it Priest Neither doth these Scriptures 1 Joh. 3.6 Whoever is born of God sinneth not Or that ver 9. He that abids in him commits not sin and chap. 5.18 The evill one toucheth him not prove any thing c. Do they not prove any thing Sad Doctrine Is this divulg'd in the Kirk of Scotland Thus to oppose not onely Christs work but the words of plain Scripture and say they do not prove any thing when as they Viz. 1 Joh. 3.6 9. chap. 5.18 prove that Whoever is born of God sinneth not He that abids in Christ sins not The evil one toucheth him not Doth this prove nothing Doth not this equally reflect upon Christs Apostles as well as us And implicitly say they should have been silent and not so have pleaded Christs manifestation and the state of him that 's born of God against Sin Antichrist and Decievers whereas they John wrot to were plainly cautioned not to be decieved For he that doth righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous Priest It 's not the words of Scripture pickt out which explain the sence c. This is nothing but a silly and gross cavilling to insist upon bare words contrary to their sence Answ. Must we then go to the Priests for their sence contrary to plain Scripture where t is neither parable nor allegory who pick out and reject plain Scripture according to their own private imaginations and conceptions and yet other whiles in contradiction to themselves tell us the Scripture is the Rule Life is to be had in it and not communicated without it but yet such Scriptures as apparently contradict their gross and Antichristian Principles they can throw by and reject as proving nothing as this corrupt minded man hath Priest By this way a man may prove the grossest blasphemies as the Polythrites saying there are many Gods from 1 Cor. 8.5 yet in the next verse there is but one God c. Answ. First Not by our use of the Scriptures both fro maâ— right mind and for a good end namely against sin Secondly And if in the next verse after He that is born of God sinneth not thou hadst proved that he doth Sin in that he is Tempted thou hadst said somâ—hing to thy business of accusing all Gods Children with Sin term of life but herein the Scriptures own thee not Priest That 1 Joh. 3.6 9. is to be understood in a limitted sence namely that they do not continue in Sin wilfully and with delight without repentance Answ. That 's not Johns sence but thine which is as much as to say his was not true for do they continue in Sin and yet Sin not This is a contradiction or do tâ—ey continue in it and still repent of it Where 's then the fruits and effects of true repentance Or is there not a time of confessing repenting and time of forsaking Sin And casting off every weight and burthen and of being cleansed from all unrighteousness Priest They do not commit Sin with full consent without controuling of the motions The evil one toucheth them not to entangle them in such a way of sinning c. Answ. As much as to say they do commit Sin and the evil one doth touch them but thâ—y Sin not with full consent which is all one as to say John did not say true when he said Whoever is born of God sinneth not The wicked one toucheth him not c. he commits not Sin but we have ground to believe him before Sathans Messengers who thus have contended and disputed for his work Priest He is an Advocate for our Sins is meant of the Sins present and to come Answ. Not that Sin should allwayes remain in beliâ—vers but that they should be called and delivered out of it and become Gods Righteousness in him Priest His saying if we Sin implyeth as much as when we Sin Answ. Is this thy Learning thou hast boasted of Thus to pervert Scripture and the very plain sence of words as to make if we Sin as positive or absolute as when we Sin so if in other cases may as well be taken for when as if we say we have not sined we make him a liar is as much as when we say we have not sinned c. what an absurdity would this imply against the Apostles according to thy sence of him who but one impudent would not be ashamed thus grosly to abuse the Scriptures Which else where thou seemest to lay such great stress upon Priest We know in part is an imperfect degree of knowledge and so sinful Answ. As this intends the Apostle it s a false and erronious conclusion it s neâ—ther true morrally nor spiritually degrees vary not the property of the thing their knowledge they had by degrees was Gods gift to them and was spiritual from above an effect of Life and Truth which to say is sinful so accuseth the cause of it which is blasphemous and if the Apostles knowledg was sinful because in part
of Envy who were not sanctified for such a work Pr. Your reason that wâ—thout Christ we can do nothing is to be meant in a Supernatural way Answ. Is not that in a Supernatural way which is without Error and Jangling and good and acceptable to God Pr. If they believe them to bâ— true do they not know them Answ. No All that believe them to be true do not know them for thou hast granted an historical Faith of Scripture Pr. He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Joh. 6.44 Answ. But all that have read and heard Scripture have not heard nor learnd of the Father nor come to Christ. Pr. None can know the Truths of the Scriptures without the Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ. Answ. This is according to what I say and overthâ—ows very much of thy matter according as hath been largely proved before Pr. He will lead believers into all Truths this is the meaning That is he will keep them from a total and final defection from Truths necessary to Salvation and lead them into Truths which are thus necessary c. Answ. This acknowledges in part to the truth of what I have said also to the Spirits leading into all Truth yea into all Truths necessary to Salvation And then the Spirit of Truth is sufficient for us to depend upon for this leading and preservation Pr The Disciples all of them except Judas had received the Sanctifying Spirit Answ How hast thou excepted Judas from the Sanctifying Spirit when he had part of the Ministery which his transgression was the cause of his falling from Pr. They were all ignorant of the Resurrection and mistook the nature of Christs Kingdom as if it had been of this world Luk. 24.21 Act. 1.6 The Galatians who had received the Spirit yet were they led into Error Answ. If they that had received the Spirit might erre in these matters much more they that had no Sanctifying Knowledg which contradicts thy former of their preaching of Truths without Errors Pr. He did not tell them ye erre not having the Spirit but not knowing the Scriptures Answ. The Scriptures they could not truely know without some Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ as before confest or of the power of God to salvation so their ignorance of the Scriptures in a Supernatural sence was from their ignorance of the power of God which unvails the heart to read and understand them Pr. For what ye say we plead for sin it doth more duely fall on the Doctrine that saith believers may totally fall as you say Peter by his denial did and David likewise by c. Answ. Nay To say there are believers that may fall from Grace who are not yet come to an established and grown state in the Truth and Power of God is no pleading for sin as your Doctrine contending and disputing for sin in all term of Life especially whiles we exhort all to watch and look dilligently to Grace received and withal warn them c. that such a falling away may be prevented for it was no pleading for sin in the Apostles to warn the Churches by the example of some that fell or of such as made shipwrack of faith and a good conscience or of such as drew back to perdition denied the Lord that bought them and such whose latter end was worse then their beginning But to charge us with saying that Peter and David fell totally this is a slander and forgery against us as there are many more in thy bundle Pr. If our peace stood in our inherent Righteousness c. in our good works c. Answ. Inherent Righteousness are thy own words obtruded upon us in thy own sence as imperfect and so in that sence not Gods nor Christs for in Gods Righteousness received in Christ by faith our peace stands and of this the true believers are pertakers in them they being in that living Faith the Righteousness whereof is not devided from it Pr. Davids Peace stood not in the freedom from all sin but in that God did pardon his sin and did not impute the same Rom. 4.6 7 8. Secondly If none ever had or shall have Peace here on earth but such as are in this Life free from all sin then you alone may boast of it c. Answ. He whose Transgression is forgiven The man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity in his spirit there is no guile Psa. 32.1 2. And David bid Mark the perfect man and behold the upright for the end of that man is peace And blessed are the undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity c. And in this state stood Davids Peace contrary to what thou hast Erroniously spoke of him here Secondly And what thou hast said of our being free from all sin that we alone might boast of it this thou dost not believe of us and therefore hast ironically Scoffed and Jeered contrary to thy own thoughts and intentions And in implying none on earth free from all sin hast again erred and art herein sufficiently confuted allrâ—ady thou having herein implyed none here ever born of God none here to abide in Christ or come to perfect Holyness or to be washed from all sin by the Blood of Christ So thy Doctrine is contrary to the Apostles Pr. For none either of the Prophets Apostles or Saints that we find in Scriptures ever were thus quallified for Peace Answ. This seems to be a large and general charge against the Prophets and Apostles who generally contrary to this Doctrine testifyed unto the Peace of God which is perfect which attends the Righteousness or heavenly Image of God which is also perfect and known in the new Covenant whereby he takes away sin and establisheth his people in Righteousness and the Prophets could testify that the Lord was their Righteousness who wrought all their works in them and to the true Apostles Christ was made wisdom righteousness sanctification so thou you have shewn your selves ignorant of the Scriptures and of the Prophets and Apostles states and quallifications and what sin or sins they all had which they or any of them were not freed from before death is not yet proved by any of you who are found in the work of the old accuser of the Brethren Pr. Sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of Gods Children c. except ye had made appear that Pauls Will and Affections and Mind were perfectly against sin Some stain and inclination to sin by the contrary corruption still remained in some degrees in his Will Mind and Affections c. Answ. This is a sad accusation against all Gods Children againe and what is this but a pleading for sin and tending to strengthen the hands of evil doers What all the faculties of Gods Children having sin and corruption in them The Priests were wont to tell of a Regenerate part What part is it No faculty clean sad newes Thus to accuse Pauls Will Mind and Affections as having
of Christ But this is hid from all blind contenders for Sin Pr. Neither doth that passage which ye abuse it s not I but Sin that dwelleth in me imply any thing of that kind that he doth not Sin Answ. What is this less then to say Paul said not true when he said It s not I that sin but sin that dwelleth in me But to distinguish between the two Sâ—eds and two Births that which did not Sin and that which did Sin it appeares thou knowest not but art very ignorant and blindly cavillest in many things Pr. God judgeth of his Children that are thus devided according to the better and sounder part as is that of the Spirit which is most prevailing with them and unto which they do adhere and not according to the Flesh which they renounce and unto which they resist and which by little and little they overcome A The Spirit most prevailing in Gods Children they adhere to it and resist and renounce the Flesh and yet the Flesh have the better What Doctrine is this and what contradiction And how doth this oppose the Spirits sufficiency and the end of their adhereing to it which is that they may be thorowly sanctified both in Body Soul and Spirit Pr. Indeed you make your self a Patron of Sin in saying that the Children of God when they come short of the good they would and when they do the evil they would not they do not Sin Now whether you or thâ—se you rail against deserve to be accused as defenders of Sin You say that a Believer when he doth the evil he would not he Sinneth not No more vile defence of Sin imaginable then to say that Peters denyal of Christ with a curse was no Sin and Davids adultery Whether he that acknowledgeth Sin is in the godly or he that sayeth the foulest Sins are not Sins because forsooth they may be warring against them Answ. Herein hast thou abused me and sought to render me odious for that which is none of my saying touching the Children of God neither did I ever say that doing evil is not Sin nor yet grant thy universal Charge against Gods Children of coming short of good and doing evil nor that all that Paul writes of himself in that kind Was then his present condition Herein hast thou but begged the question and belied me in several things grounded upon thy misrepresenting our Principles before and so the Patron and vile defender of Sin thou art and not I who to defend it hast in general accused all God Children with Sin term of Life Neither did I ever say Peters denial of Christ and Davids adultery are no Sins as here I am belied and slandered by one in impudency and the spirit of lyes And as for Peter and David Where ever did they commit those Sins after they had repented of them Surely this instance is no proof that Gods Children must have Sin or dare Sin all thâ—ir life time How-be-it Paul was no defender of Sin in saying It s not I that Sin but Sin that dwelleth in me by all which Sin is still acknowledged to be Sin and when they knew the warring against Sin and the travel in order to obtain victory and coming into the state of the perfect Birth that 's brought forth in the Image of God they knew the difference between the two Seeds in them and a going on in the work of faith till the old man with his deeds were put off and the new man put on Pr. Neither that of 1 John 2. I write unto you that you may not sin prove that they were free of Sin so as they did not Sin for then why doth he subjoyn but if we sin we have an advocate with the Father thus you have wickedly separated what God hath joyned Christ was given for an advocate for the Sins of those whom John calleth little Children and his own which therefore were to be An. Johns writing unto them not to Sin surely was contrary to thy pleading for Sin for the very tenour of thy doctrine is contrary to his in this case And what is it God hath joyned that thou sayest we have wickedly sâ—parated Is it Believers and Sin or the advocate and Sin This were blasphemous to suppose or assert how grosly hast thou shewed thy selfe in this matter And surely thou hast drawn but a bad consequence from Johns saying If any man sin we have an advocate that therefore Johns and the little Childrens Sins were to be or that the Devils work in part remaines un-subdued in the Children of God for John doth not say little Children you have an advocate and therefore your Sins are to be or the Devils work must remain in you unsubdued all your life time but I write unto you that you sin not and if any man sin which is not every man is to Sin we have an advocate with the Father this is he that was to call and help them out of Sin and whose blood did cleanse from all Sin for John proposed a way and a remedy for them to bring them out of all sin but thou hast proposed a way tending to keep all people in Sin all their days who thus hast contended for the Devils work made such a sad consequence both of Johns words and of Christs being an advocate that therefore Sins are to be A monstrous inference Pr. That the Devils work in part remains un-subdued in the Children of God appears by that Paul saith to the Romans The God of peace shall tread down Satan under your feet shortly Rom. 16.20 An. That the God of peace should tread down Satan under their feet shortly is a proof against thy sâ—lf and contradicts thy Doctrine for the Devils work remaining in the Child of God for where Satan is troden down undâ—r foot dominion is obtained over him and his work Pr. We have peace our peace stands in our justification yet there are remains of Sin within us which we are to mourn for An. The Saints peace stands in Righteousness which is not consistent with Sin which is the cause of mourning where it is not done away but thou hast confounded the state of peace and the state of mourning like one ignorant both of true peace and of the effect of true sorrow and mourning Pr. We are all compassed about with infirmities and subject to passions as was Elias who had the Spirit of God and peace to and yet had matter of groaning even in those passions An. The Apostles instance of Elias being subject to like passions was in the case of praying for the sick to shew how prevailing the effectual fervent prayer of a Righteous man is Jam. 5.15 16. which proves quite against thee whilst thou accountest passions in the general as being Sins for passions are sufferings which may be of divers sorts as that of sickness and others as also it is not true that Elias was subject to that the Priests are whilest thou takest passions for
Sins neither was he so passionate in that kind as to plâ—ad and contend for Sin as you do More-over where it s said that Paul and Barnabas said unto them that would have done sacrifice to them We are men of like passions with you Act. 14. they could not intend by passions that they were men of like Sins and Transgressions with those heathens as being such Idolaters or subject to cry up and worship men as Gods or to sacrifice unto them as they did to Paul and Barnabas whom they termed Mercurius and Jupiter so in this thy error is sufficiently detected who upon such a false ground rathâ—r then be silent hast plâ—aded for the work of the Devil Pr. Here is another Arminian and Popish error that Believers fall away from Grace totally An. Thou mightest as well have charged the Apostles with an Arminian and Popish error who held the same that we 〈◊〉 touching falling away from Grace which many have been 〈…〉 though not all Believers and therefore both Peter and Paul and others did warn them in their Epistles to the same purpose as we do and both Paul to the Corinthians and Peter in his second Epistle Chap. 2. as also that Epistle to the Hebrews do largely prove our Doctrine in this matter Pr. Evil Works come not from Faith in the Believer An. If evil Works come not from Faith then Peter and David stood not in the Faith whâ—n they fell and this proves what I said of them which thou hast reviled me for Pr. Christ said to Peter when thou art converted where you say that Peter was never converted before his repentance but onely convinced which contradicts that you said he erred from the Faith It s against Christs prayer saying I have prayed for thee that thy faith may not fail if he had not Faith when Christ spake these words to him When thou art converted strengthen thy Brethren onely do signify when he should be fully recovered An. Here thou fightest with thy own shadow for it doth not follow that Peter had no Faith when he was convinced before fully converted and the words When thou art converted strengthen thy Brethren are Christs own words to Peter about which thou hast thus wrangled against me which plain enough imply that there was somthing which was not of Faith that Peter was to be converted from and Faith is given in measure in the convincâ—ment in order to a through conversion as also thou grants that these words When thou art converted do signify when he should be fully recovered from the sad breach his fall made on his Soul what a full recovery and yet the Devils work remaining all his time what confusion's this And is the full recovery called conversion as thou sayst Then you that contend for sins remaining all your Life time remain all your time in the unconverted state and that the Desciples had som Faith bâ—fore they weâ—e thus fully converted is the thing which I have confessed which still makes for what I say that there is a possibility of falling from the Faith before this work of conversion is fully wrought and therefore the more need of being watchful and exercising that little Faith recieved so that I do not maintain Satans work or say that he overthrew Peters Faith â—s falsly I am accused Pr. It is not sad Doctrine as you say but comfortable that a Believer may fall as David and Peter whereas he doth not fall wholly away An. Is this Doctrine counted Authentick or Orthodox in the Kirk of Scotland that it is not sad Doctrine but comfortable that a Believer may fall as David and Peter did And do you propose this to your Auditors as matter of comfort Surely if you do you are misserable comforters for to be comforted with telling them they may fall as David and Peter did is to be comforted with denying Christ and commiting adultery as it may be probable too to many of your Kirk take comfort in such things which whilst they do your Stool of Repentance will not obsolve them nor prove them to be in the Faith how-be-it a few lineâ— before in contradiction to thy self thou confessest that Peters fall did weaken his Graces and cloud his comforts very much and surely it was matter of Sorrow and bitter Lamentation to him as also was Davids fall to him for which he suffered the Terrors of the Lord and great Sorrow and Tribulation as at large in his complaints and prayers may be proved Pr. What a brave Patron of your Cause are you when in defence of this that a Believer may not Sin ye say he may fall wholly away from Grace An. Here thou hast grosly perverted and wronged my words for that some Believers may fall is not my defence to prove that they may be fully restored and perfected so as not to sin but that there is a state in which t is possible for some to fall away from Gâ—ace whâ—ch is before they come to that perfection and safety that answers the end of their Faith and Praying c. This cuts off much of thy cavilling frothy false accusation Pr. Ye ask if I can instance in Peter or David any thing Viz. Sin before their death which they were not freed from before their decease Answ. Though I could not instance gross falls of such a foul nature yet they have their failings Esiah an old Prophet subject to like passions that we are Peter walked not with a streight foot David saith if thou enter into Judgement c. An. Here thou hast gone about to accuse David and Elias and Peter with failings till their death but in proving thy charge comâ—s very faintly off for that of passions is answered before and what thou sayest of Peters not walking with a streight foot Was that till death Or did he so walk all his Life time Surely thou hast herein greatly wronged Peter and the rest of them and though there be a time and a state wherein if God enter into Judgment who can be justified yet there is a state wherein his people are Redeemed through Judgment and purged by the spirit of judgement and burning Pr. You maintain that a Believer from the first Sinneth not An. Thy accusing of me with maintaining that a Believer is freed from all Sin from the first time he is a Believer is a falshood and an abuse put upon me for he is a Believer before he obtain victory and is taught to believe in the Light that he may be a Child of the Light and so become born of God Pr. You do symbolize with the Papists saying Believers are freed from all Sin which yet they do not hold of all Believers but of some of their Perfectionaries Ye say ye do not hold Merit or Purgatory An. Nay Thou hast symbolized with the Papists who hast pleaded for sin till death and said also that perfect holiness both of Soul and Body is not to be till the Resurrection when that shall be
Supernatural Knowledg and Faith of Christ before the Scriptuâ—es be truely known or believed I deny any immediate teaching by God Christs immediate teaching will no wayes follow Christs opening the understanding to know the Scriptures for he doth by the same Supernatural Influence shine on the understanding and Scriptures Luke 24.22 Christs opening and shining by a Supernatural Influence plainly proves immediate teaching as we called Quakers do hold and against the Priests of Scotlands denying it who thus confute themselves If there be any Pryority or Posteriority of Christ in the Soul the Scriptures hath it in the order of nature The Lord in the comunicating of the knowledg of them he is in his being first the cause must be before the effect so the giver of knowledg before the knowledg given So that he that is the first and cause of true knowledg hath the Priority and Preheminence in all things without whom the Scriptures are not known and if it be a Priority of Christ as is said then Christ hath it Without the Sanctifying knowledg of Christ one may understand the Scriptures without error and jangling None can know the Truths of the Scriptures without the Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ. So then without that Sanctifying Knowledg none can understand them without error We may find Eternal Life by searching Scriptures they thought to have Eternal Life in the Scriptures this thought could not be a delusion He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Viz. to Christ he to wit the Spirit of Truth shall lead believers into all Truth So then the Father is to be heard and learned of that the Son may be come to and the Spirit to be followed to lead into all Truth and this way was before the Scriptures Sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of Gods Children Viz. in the Will Mind and Affections Cleanse thou me from my secret sins Peter exhorted the believing Hebrewes to abstain from their lusts Then let not sin nor sinful lusts allwayes remain in believers If you find out any other faculty of the Soul which can be a seat for sin to dwell in then the Schooles will be beholding to you for your new Phylosophie When they are believers and begotten they are so freed that the evill one cannot touch them many are commended for keeping his Commandments If the evil one cannot touch them much less hath he power to lead them into sin all their time or to uphold sin in all their faculties and the Schools that would have more place for sin allow Christ no place Believers are not freed from sin wholy till death To be unblamable is that Grace which is universal in all parts of the renewed man Unblameable is inconsistant with sin for sin is blameable where ever it is A believer ever after he is begotten of God is not free of sin they do not perfectly mortify lusts in them In the Book of Common Prayer there is a promise to forsake the Devil and all his Works the vain Pompe and Glory of the world and sinful lusts of the flesh and be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commands many of those who promise may do this and keep it What greater promise can there be of freedom from sin then to forsake the Devil and all his works to be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commands Your new Light you pretend is nothing but old Damnable Popery The Spirit of truth will lead believers into all truth He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Viz. to Christ. Our Light is the Light of the Spirit of Truth which cometh from Christ and guides both to hear and learn of the Father and this Light was before the Scriptures were and its blasphemy to call it Damnable Popery In the present time I am sold under sin that good I would do I do not Groaning under a body of death It was not a by-gone state Paul speakes of in the present time I am Paul was giving thanks for victory through Jesus Christ yet all these are knit together Victory and being sold under sin are two differing states as warring and being more then a Conqueror are Paul spake to the Romans after the manner of men because of the infirmity of their flesh and therein condescended to their capacities below his own present state and injoyment Perfect holiness of both Soul and Body is not to be till the Resurrection Viz. after death Believers at their death which is upon their dying are made perfectly holy Perfect holiness ought not to be put off neither so long after death nor till death for what time do you allow Christ to reign in man and to serve him if all your life time sin must remain and so long the Devil be served The Godly falleth into sin seven times a day Christ saith to Peter that he should forgive his brother seventy times seven which implyeth that a brother may offend often in the day time As for my saying a day it was a mistake of the citation of the place That of the Spirit is most prevailing with Gods Children as unto which they do adhere the flesh they renounce and resist and which by little and little they overcome It had been well thou hadst confest thy mistakes as ingenuously in other things the controversie had been the less but Do the Brethren sin all their dayes When then do they overcome What gross confusion art thou in While we live we must put on the armour of God and war against sin which is not to be ended till we lay down this Tabernacle We are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Christ in Justification when we do believe If believers be cleansed from all sin when they do believe How have they it to war against till they lay down this Tabernacle Surely they believe before Our peace stands in our Justification by Faith and yet there are remains of sin in us which we are to mourn for There is a perfect cleansing from the guilt of sin What a cleansing from the guilt of sin and not from the sin it self this is quite contrary to Scriptures Christ was given for an advocate for the sins of those whom John calls little Children and his own which therefore were to be That of 1 Joh. 1.12 I write unto you that you may not sin Page 30. Christ Redeemeth from all iniquity is a Saviour and saveth them from their sins Math. 1.21 Luke 19.10 Christ being thus a Redeemer a Saviour an Advocate therefore sins are not to be and there was young Men and Fathers as well as little Children The Devils work remains unsubdued in the Child of God appeares by that Paul saith to the Romans The God of peace c. The God of peace shall tread down Satan under your feet shortly Rom. 16 20. And sure when Satan is thus trodden down under foot his work cannot remain unsubdued for both his power and possession is