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A13383 Of mariage and vviuing An excellent, pleasant, and philosophicall controuersie, betweene the two famous Tassi now liuing, the one Hercules the philosopher, the other, Torquato the poet. Done into English, by R.T. Gentleman.; Dello ammogliarsi piacevole. English Tasso, Ercole.; Tasso, Torquato, 1544-1595. aut; Tofte, Robert, 1561-1620. 1599 (1599) STC 23690; ESTC S118134 52,482 86

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supper where that good man with other his guests attended for him I say to that spirituall supper most glorious and blessed vnto which God from the beginning inuiteth and ordaineth as much as in him lyeth euerie one to ioyne in generall And to this effect let vs heare Paule to the Corinthians where he will say that it is not good to touch a woman and he will perswade such as haue neuer bene married and widowers that haue bene wedded to stay and liue ashe then did at that time that is without a wife which he himself had had once If the text of Ignatius who liued in his time was not corrupt and falsified he will aduise such as haue none not to take any at all and those that are married he will tell them that he pitieth them because that first they endure most bitter stormes and troubles and then they become too too carefull and ouerpensiue for worldlie goods not séeking after any thing so much as how to please their wiues whereas the same Apostle addeth that such as are vnmarried giue their mindes onely vnto heauenly matters endeauouring most studiously and carefully how to please God Let vs meditate and call to mind the reuelation written by that secretarie of God Saint Iohn and we shall find in the same that not any of those hundred fortie foure thousand which sung new praises knew euer any woman and that none but such immaculate and vndefiled Innocents could say the like Let vs come backe againe vnto that celestiall cryer Esay the Prophet and we shall find that hee that liueth a Batcheler God promiseth to him a name in his house and a farre better and higher place then vnto him that shall bee married Let vs come vnto Saint Augustine where he entreateth of the vnequalitie and proportion of merrits ment by Christ in the numbers of thirtie sixtie and a hundred and vndoubtedly he will affirme that in these greater numbers he is comprehended that doth not marrie and in the first and smallest are contained such as be married Let vs search in Saint Ierome who besides that he interpreteth the exposition of these numbers after this maner he moreouer auerreth this that so much difference is there to go the nearest way vnto heauen betwéene him that hath a wife and him that hath none as there is betwéene sinning and dooing of good workes applying the first vnto the vnmaried and the last vnto those that haue wiues Likewise hée will say that the woman is the fountaine and originall of all euill the swift way to all wickednes the sting vncurable of a scorpion and to be briefe a generation most detestable and hatefull But let vs a litle come backe againe vnto Origen and we shal find that he defineth her to be the head or rather beginning of sin the weapons of the diuell the expulsion out of Paradise the mother of all transgressions and the onely distinction of the law Tertullian calleth her the entrance into Hell the first bringer in of the forbidden fruite the breaker of the law diuine the ouerthrow of man whom Sathan himself durst not be bold to tempt Chrisostome writeth that she is the enemie to all vertuous friendship a plague incurable abad necessarie euill a naturall and ordinarie kinde of temptation a sought for calamitie a domesticall danger a delightfull detriment and hurt and so following on with such bad titles as these in sequence he reckoneth vp a huge rabble of them amounting to the number of 600. at the least going far beyond Aluarus Pelagius who gaue ouer as being tired with setting downe thrée hundred of the same Epiphanius exclayming against them openly before the people declareth how rightly our first graund-father Adam discouered the conformities of their natures with that of the Serpent in taking the first of that sex Eua● because this word EVA so written signifieth after the Hebrew language a woman but adding before the same an H. as an aspiration it then signifieth a Serpent Ciprian hath written whole volumes against this pestilent sex And Gregorius Nasianzenus concludeth that a bad thing is a Dragon more worse then the venomous Aspis but the malice of a woman saith he excéedeth and far surpasseth both the one and the other But these damned heresies for now I come to the place where I first left did not they at the beginning procéed had they not their first increasing and growing throgh the meanes of women No doubt they had Behold Simon Maigus who foysted in his erronious blasphemies through the helpe of an infamous Courtezan called Helena Nicholas of Antioch he preuailed with his poysonous opinions by reason of a pestilent thraue of vngodly women which he drew and carried vp and downe with him Martius the Stoick and Cardonius before they entred into Rome sent a woman as their precussor or forerunner to worke the peoples mindes vnto their wicked purposes and perswasions Apelles the Hereticque did nothing without the consent of Philomela Montanus through the power of Prisca and Maxilla two Noble and rich women first with golde and then with false doctrine corrupted many Churches Arrius that notable pernitious Priest of Alexandria vsed the authoritie of the sister of his prince to deceiue the world withall Lucilla with her wealth assisted Donatus that Arch Hereticque to infect Affrica In Spaine Agape vndid and vtterly ouerthrew Elpidius Polemnius in a certaine place is aduised that if euer he ment to haue his sonne Chrisantus renounce his Christian faith he then should giue him a wife as a temptresse vnto him And at this day I pray you who maintaineth and of late hath maintained so many kind of religions as are in Germanie and in other places therabouts but only the busie he aded women of the said countries What should I say more if y ● wife of Adam himself framed out of his blessed side placed as then in the most delectable garden of all delightfull pleasures that might be retaining as then the innocencie giuen vnto her and enioying the celestiall influences serued for no other vse then for the diuels instrument to make both him and vs to be throwne headlong into hell fire shall not then our wicked wiues who are conceiued throgh concupiscence borne in sin dwelling in a deceitfull world accursed of God and by the law be worse then diuels themselues vnto vs and as it were stumbling blocks to hinder vs frō returning once more back againe vnto heauen our allotted countrey But if they were not so bad and dangerous creatures as is here set downe how then cōmeth it to passe that women are counted to be the very liuely tokens badges of sin as Cirillus Origen haue set them down to be Why would the diuine prouidence haue so wroght y ● not any one almost of y ● holiest Iewes should bring foorth or beget any of them and why likewise woulde the same haue tollerated that Salfaat the father of onely women should die in sinne How
consider of with Signior Christophoro your brother he being as exellent a Philosopher and as excéeding a good Diuine as any liuing at this day I say then that in that Argument about which both Aristotle and Plato are in controuersie there is not any man of sufficient authoritie and power to giue censure and iudgement vpon the same vnlesse he be some péerlesse Diuine as was Basilius surnamed the Great who affirmeth that the vertue of the Man and of the Woman was all one thing and the verie same Therefore can none blame the Woman but they must likewise finde fault with the Man by the same reason nor praise the one but that they must commend the other in like manner in such strict wise are not only their Offices and Actions conioyned togither but their verie vertues themselues the which if they were euer distinguished and diuided the same distinction was verie wise and discréete nay rather to speake more truer most conuenient and necessary that it should be so Neither is the opinion of Saint Paule any thing discrepant from the same for he writeth vnto the Corinthians that the woman is the glorie of the man And in the selfe-same Epistle hée sheweth the Equalitie thereof saying that the woman hath not power ouer her owne bodie but man and so likewise that the man hath not authoritie ouer his owne bodie but the woman And in another place he showeth the Dependancie as I may say of the woman affirming that she was made of man and for him created for in his creation Eue was taken out of the side of Adam which most vndoubted truth might force any graue Stoicke in a manner to laugh at the foolish and ●ottish Fables and loude lies of Focilides who wrote that a woman was formed of foure liuing creatures of a Dogge of a Waspe of a Sowe and of a Mare of which last shee tooke her long haire And to smile no lesse at those Tales of Simonides who comming in with his fiue Egges whereoffoure were rotten dreameth that some of them are created for a Sowe some others of the craftie Fore who knoweth all things neither is any thing be it good or bad had from him as hee saieth and by these I gesse hée meant such as be sharpe shrowes some others of the earth some of the sompter Asse othersome of a Weasell other of Asses but hée that hath one that commeth of a Bée hée saith he is passing happie for shee groweth to be excellent in all kinde of workes and prooueth to be a passing good Huswife encreasing her husbandes stocke wonderfully Now were not these opinions too too grosse and ridiculous they were somewhat to be tollerated and to be borne withall especially when the cōceits be such as oppose themselues not too much against most true and graue matters of great importance as these be wherof I now speake I say then that woman was created of a most daintie fine and tender matter because she might be the more tractable easie to yéeld vnto the commandements of her husband Wherupon passing from y ● first question vnto the second we may boldly say with Saint Paule himselfe that it is better to marrie then to burne and to take of him this good counsaile that hée that is bounde séeke not to bee vnbounde and hée that is loose if hée so like to liue still séeke not to come into bandes although to bée bounde in this sort is no sinne as Christ himselfe hath first taught vs before all other who honouring marriage with his most precious presence and his wonderfull miracle confirmed the auncient honour of the same in praise of which whole volums might be writ an infinit number of histories reported which your self kind Cosen Hercules although you haue dispraised or rather but séeme to dispraise ought in dutie and with deuotion for to commend more then any other And whilest you are silent ruminating as it were in swéete contemplation of the swéetnesse and pleasures of the same I will be bold vnder correction not claiming any priuiledge as some others perhaps ouerboldly would bringing in for authoritie Pictoribus atque poetis Qui libet audendi semper fuit aequa potestus learned Poets and rare Painters that haue skill may write and paint controwles what they will it may bee lawfull for me with your voyce to conclude thus O swéete conioyning of loyall hearts O dulcet vnion of our soules togither O most louely and nuptiall knot O most chaste pure and religious marriage yoake who art rather a pleasing ease and a most welcome delight to supporte and beare then any hard weight or gréeuous burthen to sustaine rather a reléeuing comfort that vpholdeth vs euery way then a troublesome labour that any way paineth vs. Thou first didst bring mankind to dwell in a house enclosing him within a wall causing him to build Citties and Townes to inhabit in where before men liued like sauadge beasts in the woods and desarts dispearsed one from an other Thou first diddest alter darke Caues into delightfull chambers and colde snowy Mountaines into bewtifull and goodly Pallaces and lodgings thou madest that lawfull which rightly did please and honest that which euery one desired Thou didst set iust lawes to humane pleasures and a lawdable bridle to vntaimed headlong desires Through thée that came to be proper which before was common and that particular which before was generall bringing that to be of account which before was held of no estéeme By thée honour was conioyned vnto delight and pure chastitie with perfect loue By thée came downe from heauen loyall faith and spotlesse modestie and all other vertues nay rather thou wert the first founder of the same thy holy lawes teaching men to take vp defensible weapons in the honor of their wiues they learning by this meanes to become valiant Thou taughtest others to assemble and gather togither their friends their kinsfolkes and subiects filling the seas with sailes and armed Nauies and to fight many years in forren coastes to recouer their wiues whom they had lost And if we may giue credit vnto auncient Histories the first famous warres which euer were first begun began vpon this occasion betwéene those of Asia and them of Europa who in the end growing wearie of trauell and fearefull of farther vaungers came to agréement and to growe vnto a truce in the kéeping of which prudence and instice consisteth for it shewed vnto many of the wisest sort that it was not necessarie to haue warre vpon warre nor discord vpon discord whilest the long absence of husbands learned women milde temperance and graue modestie throgh which most of them continued chaste and vndefiled amongst whole multitudes of Ruffinlike suters and swaggering louers and many of them through the swéete remembrance of their best beloued Husbands haue shewed themselues most bountifull vnto straungers and most charitable and courteous vnto Pilgrimes and trauellers so that what by reason of one thing or of an other they