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A93918 The doctrines and principles the persecution, imprisonment, banishment, excommunicating of the saints of God, by the priests and magistrates of Scotland, contrary to the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles ... Stockdale, William, d. 1693. 1659 (1659) Wing S5693A; ESTC R184702 60,391 90

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was never any since the world began was free from sin nor never shall be write that said he Answ Which is quite contrary to plain Scripture Rom. 6.18 20 22. Being made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousnesse for when ye were the servants of sin ye were free from righteousnesse but now being made free from sin and become servants of God ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end everlasting life for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord And Paul said Rom. 8.2 The Law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death A Relation of some of the Sufferings of Friends to the Truth in Scotland JOhn Roberton called Lord of Ornock publickly refused to enter Andrew Hambleton in Shawton-hill in his possession under him because he was excommunicated by the Priests Witnesses of this Elexander Hambleton and John Strudders William Gray James Findly John Gray Robert Smally John Robine was summoned to be upon a Jewry at Dunbarton and when they came there and went within the Barr they puld off their Bonnets and bad them swear unto whom they answered they would not swear But they will tell the Truth and take God to be their Witnesse upon it but this they would not receive for John Callhonne called the Sheriffs deputy bad them swear by God and hold up their hands or go into prison and it was answered we dare not transgresse the Doctrine of Christ who said swear not at all he said it was but the Law of Christ that bad men not swear but the Law of God bad men swear and so would have set the old law over Christ who is the end of it who forbids swearing And because they durst not transgresse the Doctrines of Christ in which the Apostle lived who said Above all things my Bretheren swear not at all they put them all five into Prison The Heads of that which past in Discourse betwixt the People called Quakers and the two Priests of Hambleton in the Priests house The Names of the Priests are Jam. Nesmith and John English in which Discourse they have manifested themselves and all the rest of their Generation to be none of the Ministers of Christ but the Ministers of Anti-christ who preaches another Gospel then the Apostles did as in the Discourse following you may plainly see And also some Reasons why we deny them First JAmes Nesmith said There is no salvation in an ordinarie way for sinners without externall Revelation from the Scriptures Answ Here all may see they hold out another way to salvation then the Prophets and the Apostles did for they said Christ was given for salvation to the ends of the earth Isay 49.6 and there was not salvation in any other nor no other Name given by which any can be saved but by the Name of Jesus Acts. 4.12 But that salvation they tell of which is by external revelation from the Scriptures was never held forth by the Prophets nor the Apostles nor declared of in all the Scriptures of Truth therefore all may see they are such as preach another Gospel then the Apostles did and so are to be holden accursed and turned away from Gal. 1.8 Jam. Nesmith said That Christ doth not excommunicate the knowledge of himself but by the Scriptures and that the Scripture is the means by which the knowledge of God is imparted Answ This is a lye and Scripture contradiction For Christ who doth communicate the knowledge of himself by his own Spirit saith none knows the Son but the Father neither doth any man know the Father but the Son and he to whom the Son will reveal him Mat. 11.27 So it is not by the Scriptures that the true knowledge of God is imparted to any man but by Christ 2 Cor. 4.6 The second Priest John English First Said the Vail that was over people in the time of the Law was the Old Testament and it was taken away by the New Testament Answ Sin was and is the vail by which the mystery was vailed all the time of the Law until now for when Moses is read the same vail remains over their hearts for their minds was and is blinded by the God of this World lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ which is the Image of God should shine unto them 2 Cor. 4.4 nevertheless when their hearts shall be turned to the Lord the vail shall be taken away 2 Cor. 3.16 which vail is done away in Christ 2 Cor. 3.14 and not by the Scripture which they call the New Testament and here John English is proved to be a lyar and of his father the Devil who is a lyar from the beginning 2. John English said That the Gospel that was preached to Abraham was the same for matter but not for substance neither was it a clear Gospel Answ The Gospel that was preached to Abraham was the same for matter and substance which Paul preached for matter and substance is one and it was a clear Gospel for Christ the substance was preached to Abraham and Abraham saw his day and rejoyced John 8.56 Therefore give over deceiving the people with lies and repent 3. John English said The Scripture is the glasse by which we see the Face of God Answ This is a lie and Scripture contradiction for the Apostle saith God who commanded the light to shine out of darkness hath shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor. 4.6 Mark the Priests ignorance or the Scriptures and here all may see that he is one of them that keeps people in darkness from seeing the face of God and erres not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God 4. John English said The foundation of the Prophets and Apostles was meant the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament Answ The Prophets and Apostles meant what they speak and the same foundation which they declared of and builded upon did 〈◊〉 Enoch Noah and others who died in the Faith before the Old and New Testament was written build upon which foundation was Christ the Rock of Ages the foundation of the chief Corner Stone 2 Tim. 2.19 1 Cor. 2.11 But thou art one of them that drawes people from the foundation of the Prophets and the Apostles to build upon thy lies and consequences which building and foundation the Lord will bring to naught for he is risen to sweep away the refuge of lies which thou and thy generation hath been covered with and will make you naked and bare for your covering is too short that your shame cannot be hid any longer 5. John English said That they had their commission from Paul to give Bread and Wine Answ Here hast thou made it plainly manifest that thou and thy generation are none of the Ministers of Christ who say you have your
came to fulfill The Priests third Curse to which all the people were to say Amen Cursed be all they that say Faith is without sin and let all the people say Amen Ans FAith is the gift of God and the gift of God is without sin Eph. 2.8 Faith is that which gives the victory John 3.4 And that which gives victory is without sin And here they have cursed the Apostles and their Doctrine who saith Faith is without sin and Faith is precious 1 Pet. 1.7 and that which is Precious is without sin Faith is the gift of God and the gift of God is perfect and that which is perfect is without sin and gives victory over sin Without Faith a man cannot please God and that which men please God in is without sin Hebr. 11.6 And so ye have cursed the Apostle and his Doctrine the just and that which is pure that by which they were healed through Faith they were justified Rom. 3.28 and what is not of Faith is sin Rom. 14.23 So what is of Faith is not sin and what is righteous is not sin and the Scripture speaks of the righteousness of Faith Rom. 4.13 Faith is not of sin but what is not of Faith is sin Faith gives victory over sin 1 John 3.4 in which Faith man is justified and hath peace with God Rom. 5.1 and it is a mystery held in a pure conscience 1 Tim. 3.9 The Priests fourth Curse to which all the people were to say Amen Cursed are all they that say every man hath a light sufficient to lead him to Christ and that within him and let all the people say Amen Ans HEre they have cursed the Apostles Doctrine who said God would dwell in them 2 Cor. 6.16 and Christ in you the hope of glory Col. 1.27 and God is light 1 John 1.5 And they have cursed the Prophets who said I give him for a Covenant a Leader of the people I will dwell in them and walk in them saith God Jer. 31.31 Hebr. 10.16 And he saith I will send you the Spirit of truth and it shall lead you into all truth John 14.17 John 16 13. And I will be their God to rule them and they shall be my people Jer. 31.33 Thy curses are but winde for we are redeemed from the curse and the Apostles said the light that shined in their hearts was to give them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor. 4.6 and they that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God Rom. 8.14 and the light to guide our feet in the way of peace and he that hath the Son hath the Father also and if any bring another Doctrine receive them not into your houses neither bid them God speed 2 John 9 10. You have here shewed your selves in the cursed estate out of the Apostles rule the same spirit of truth that led the Disciples into all truth that shall reprove the world of sin John 16.8 13. The Priests fifth Curse to which all the people were to say Amen Cursed be all they that deny the Sabbath-day and let all the people say Amen Ans HEre thou hast cursed thy self and all the Apostles and all the Saints and their own generation hast not thou and thy own generation denied the Sabbath day the Jews met on which is the Sabbath day according to the Scripture do not ye meet together upon the first day and was not Christ crucified on the sixth day and did not he arise on the first day and did not the Saints meet together on the first day and not keep the Jews Sabbath-day do not you work upon it your selves and keep Markets and Fairs on it but as it is said before we are Redeemed from the curse These are the particular Sentences whereupon Matthew Mackell and the rest of the Priests present with him did excommunicate those people called Quakers in the presence of many witnesses and he required his Hearers to say Amen to every particular sentence John Humes Priest of Lismahagow his Principles Pr. THey who have not the Scriptures knowes not the Attributes of God by the light of nature but the Scriptures declare the great mystery of the three persons in Trinity which they who want the Scriptures knowes not Ans Thy Principle is a lie and they that had not the Scriptures knew God and Christ as Abraham and Enoch and the Scripture doth not declare of the three persons nor of the Trinity and the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God Pr. That the Scriptures reveal the great mystery of Election the great works of the Creation and the work of Redemption Answ There thou hast set up the Scripture instead of God and before God and the Son for it is God that doth reveal to babes and sucklings Mat. 11.25 and God did reveal by his Spirit 1 Cor. 2.10 and God shall reveal Phil. 3.15 and the things of God are hid from the wise and prudent Mat. 11.25 that have the Scriptures the Jewes had the Scriptures and God reveals his secrets to the Prophets his Servants Amos 3.7 no man knowes the Father saving to whom the Son shall reveal him Mat. 11.17 now the Son reveals and the Father reveals and the things of God are revealed by his Spirit 1 Cor. 2.10 the Jewes had the Scriptures and knew not the Son 1 Cor. 2.8 nor the Father as in John nor the things of God by a natural light as they call it the Jewes had the Scriptures and did not know the Election Isa 24. because they were from the Spirit So it is God that reveals the Son and Redemption and Election and not the Scripture the Scripture was given forth from them that had the Revelation from God Pr. That wee and the Papists and Jesuites and Priests do agree all together that the Scripture is the word of God that liveth and endureth for ever Answ I do believe that you and the Papists and Jesuits agree all in one but ye did not agree with the Apostles and Ministers of the word for the Ministers of the word calls the Scripture a Declaration as ye may read Luke 1. and ye do not agree with them that set forth the Acts that called it a Treatise Acts 1. likewise ye do not agree with some of your own who say the Scriptures signifies writings and writings will not endure for ever so ye are Babylon and do not agree with Christ and ye do not agree with John Bev. 〈◊〉 who saith the words nor with Moses nor God who spake all these words Exod. 20. In the beginning was the word and the word is God and the word liveth and abideth for ever but the Scripture is words and the Scripture cannot be broken James Nesmith Priest of Hambleton his Principles Pr. THat the soul of man is a reasonable sinfull substance Answ How can that which is sinful be reasonable and if that which is unsinful be
you cannot deceive the Nations any more as ye have done Again the Priests of the Presbytery belonging to Glascow made a fast and excommunicated these persons viz. William Gray and James Findly and charged people not to let them come into their houses commanding them to have no commerse with them in buying nor selling nor borrowing nor lending and James Findly being a Smith they charged people that they should not work with him for if they did they should be excommuicated also and Henry Foreside Priest of that parish again told them that it was acted in the presbytery that if any work any longer work that pertaines to the Smiths trade with James Findly they should be excommnicants and should not parake with any of his Church-Ordinances as marriage sprinkling the children and communion of bread and wine which act several of the people murmures under but say they must obey it contrary to their minds because they cannot bear the Priests wrath Again John Burnett Priest of Kilbrid charged his hearers to have no dealings in civil affaires with these people called Quakers that were excommunicated and he summoned such to his Sessions which had eaten or drunken bought or sold with them requiring them to make publick confession before the people that they had given offence in so doing c. Again Robert Paul one of the Priests elders said he would convert James Findly and his doctrine to convert him by was this That the Scripture was the word And secondly That the Scriptures was God Thirdly That the Scriptures is the way to the Kingdom of Heaven and no other under Heaven Fourthly That the scriptures is the Holy Ghost that the Father promised that he would send that should reprove the world of sin c. Ans If he had said that the Scripture is that which testifie of these things that doctrine had bin more like to have converted for the scripture saith That the word was in the begining before scripture was and it saith that Christ is the way and there is no other Name under Heaven by which men shall be saved but by Christ it doth not say that by no other name but the scripture so that all such doctrine will pervert people from God and not convert them to God And the same Robert Paul said he would respect mens persons and that he would never be free from fin neither was it possible Answ How can thou do any other but respect persons and commit sin while thou denyes God to be God and Christ to be the way and would make the scriptures both to be God and the way to God and would make them the spirit the gift of the Father but herein thou art blind and leads none but the blind and doth pervert and not convert for thou art ignorant of that which convinceth the world of sin yet which is the Spirit of truth which the scripture testifies of but that thou must first come to know to convince thee of and to condemn thy darkness before thou do either convince or convert any unto God James Gartsore Priest said they loved God which keeped not his commandements Answ Which is contrary to the Apostles doctrine which saith If any man saith that he loves God and keeps not his Commandments he is a lyar and the truth is not in him and hereby do we know wee love God because wee keepe his commandements 1 John 2.3 4. and his Commandements are not grievous but joyous And Christ saith Why call ye me Lord and doth not the thing that I command you so that none loves God but he who keeps his Commandements and abideth in him and he that abideth in him sinneth not 1 John 3.6 Peter Kid Priest of Douglasse said Put a man in never such a close place his soule will run like a post horse Answ Thou shewest that thou art ignorant of the soul and never knew what it was nor knowes how to Minister to it nor how to watch over it But if thou had seen thine own condition thou might have said that thy vain thoughts and wandring imaginations runs to and fro in the earth and thy mind is not staid upon God and art not come to know the first principal of the the time Religion that which should stay thy mind upon God so thou art to wait to be taught and not to teach William Simerwell Priest of Petinance said that Christ died for the Elect and godly people of the world and not for the Turks and Pagans and Barbarians c. Answ Christ died for sinners according to the Scriptures Rom. 5.8 And he came to call sinners to repentance not the righteous or godly Mat. 9.13 And Christ died for all 2 Cor. 5.14 15. And is the propitiation for our sins saith the Apostle that was the believers and not for ours onely but for the sins of the whole World and the Gospel is to be preached to every Creature and remission of sins in his Name to Turks Pagans and Barbarians So herein thou hast shewed that thou was never made a Minister of the Gospel unto any neither knoweth what the Gospel is to be Ministred unto so therefore be silent and learn no more to blaspheme God and his truth as thou hast done Again Priest Simerwell saith Christ calls all men every where to repent but he will not that all should Repent Answ Here thou would make Christ a deceiver and so hath manifested thy selfe to be Antichrist what doth Christ call men to do that which he would not have them to do What is there any guile to be found in his mouth would thou go about to turne the truth of the Scriptures into a lye which saith That God wills that all men should come to the knowledge of the truth that they might be saved and thou here hath charged Christ foolishly and falsly in saying that he calls them to do that which he would not have them to do when he calls all men every where to Repent The Priest of the Presbytery belonging to Glascow summoned James Findly and William Gray to be examined by him for Heresy as they say and when they appeared they shut the door and would let none hear their examination manifesting themselves to be in darknesse and afraid to bring their deeds to the Light left their deceipts should have been laid open and reproved but they would not answere untill the doors were set open and all people to here that would come in Truth is bold and seeks no Corners They Priests affirmed that the Light which every one is enlightened withall is naturall c. Answ Here they manifest their ignorance of the life of Christ which is spirituall whose life is the light of men and this is the true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world and this light is pure that Christ doth enlighten every one withall and whosoever doth truth love the Light and brings his deeds to the light to be proved and by the Light