Selected quad for the lemma: sin_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sin_n	distinction_n	mortal_a	venial_a	4,934	5	12.1153	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69535	The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy.	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Commission for the Review and Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer.	1661 (1661)	Wing B1278A; Wing E3841; ESTC R7198	132,164	165

13. and therefore should be continued still as well as Te Deum Ruffin Apol. cont Hieron or Veni Creator which they do not object against as Apocryphal Reply You much discourage us in these great straits of time to give us such loose and troublesome citations you turn us to Ruffin Apol. in gross and tell us not which of the Councils of Tolet among at least 13. you mean but we find the words in Council 4. But that provincial Spanish Council was no meet Judge of the Affairs of the universal Church unto the universal Church nor is it certain by their words whether quem refer not to eadem rather than to Hymnum but if you so regard that Council remember that Can. 9. it is but once a day that the Lords prayer is in joyned against them that used it on the Lords day only and that Can. 17. it is implyed that it was said but once on that day The Benedicite is somewhat more cautelously to be used than humane Compositions that professe to be but humane when the Apocryphal writings that are by the Papists to be Canonical and used so like the Canon in our Church we have the more cause to desire that a sufficient distinction be still made In the Letany Sect. 1. The alterations here desired are so nice as if they that made them were given to change Reply We bear your Censure but professe that if you will desert the products of Changers and stick to the unchangeable Rule delivered by the Holy Ghost we shall joyfully agree with you Let them that prove most given to change from the unchangeable Rule and Ensamples be taken for the hinderers of our unity and peace Sect. 2. From all other deadly sin is better than From all other hainous sin upon the reason here given because the wages of sin is death Reply There is so much mortal poison in the Popish distinction of mortal and venial sin by which abundance of sins are denied to be sins at all properly but only Analogically that the stomack that feareth it is not to be charged with niceness The words here seem to be used by way of distinction and all deadly sin seemeth not to be spoken of all sin And if so your reason from Rom. 6. 23. is vain and ours firm Sect. 3. From sudden death as good as From dying suddenly which therefore we pray against that we may not be unprepared Reply We added unprepared as expository or hinting to shew the reason why sudden death is prayed against and so to limit our prayers to that sudden death which we are unprepared for there being some wayes of sudden death no more to be prayed against than death it self simply considered may When you say from sudden death is as good as from dying suddenly we confess it is But not so good as from dying suddenly and unpreparedly we hope you intend not to make any believe that out turning the Adjective to an Adverb was our Reformation And yet we wondred to hear this made a common jest upon us as from those that had seen our papers Would you have had us said from sudden and unprepared death you would then have had more matter of just exception against the words unprepared death than now you have against dying suddenly A man may be well prepared to die suddenly by Martyrdom for Christ or by War for his Prince and many other wayes Sect. 4. All that travel as little lyable to exception as those that travel and more agreeable to the phrase of Scripture 1 Tim. 1. 2. I will that prayers be made for all men Reply An Universal is to be understood properly as comprehending all the Individuals and so is not an Indefinite And we know not that we are bound to pray for Thieves and Pyrates and Traytors that travel by land or water on such errands as Faux or the other Powder-plotters or the Spanish Armado in 88. or as Parry or any that should travel on the Errand as Clement or Raviliac did to the two King Henry's of France Are these Niceties with you Sect. 5. P. 16. The 2d Collect c. We do not find nor do they say what is to be amended in these Collects therefore to say any thing particularly were to answer to we know not what Reply We are glad that one word in the proper Collects hath appeared such to you as needs a Reformation especially when you told us before that the Liturgy ws never found fault with by those to whom the name of Protestant most properly belongs which lookt upon our hopes of Reformation almost as destructively as the Papists Doctrine of Infallibility doth when we dealt with them As for the Collects mentioned by us you should not wonder that we brought not in a particular Charge against them For first we had a conceit that it was best for us to deal as gently tenderly as we could with the faults of the Liturgy and therefore we have under our Generals hid abundance of particulars which you may find in the Abridgement of the Lincolnshire Ministers and in many other Books And Secondly we had a conceit that you would have vouchsafed to treate with us personally in presence according to the sense of his Majestie 's Commission and then we thought to have told you particularly of such matters but you have forc'd us to confess that we find our selves deceived The Communion Service Sect. 1. P. 17. Kyries To say Lord have mercy upon us after every Commandment is more quick and active than to say it once at the Close and why Christian people should not upon their knees ask their pardor for their life forfeited for the breach of every Commandment and pray for Grace to keep them for the time to come they must be more than Ignorant that can cruple Reply We thank you for saying nothing against our four first requests though we are thought more than Ignorant for our scruple we can truly say We are willing to learn But your bare opinion is not enough to cure Ignorance and more By your reason you may make kneeling the Gesture for hearing the Scriptures read and hearing Sermons and all If you will but interweave prayers he must be more than Ignorant that will not kneel The universal Church of Christ was more than Ignorant for many hundred years that not only neglected but prohibited Genuflexion in all adoration each Lords day when now the 20th of Exod. or 5th of Deut. may not be heard or read without kneeling save only by the Clergy Sect. 2. P. 18. Homilies Some Livings are so small that they are not able to maintain a licenced Preacher and in such and the like Cases this provision is necessary nor can any reason be given why the Minister's reading a Homily set forth by common Authority should not be accompted preaching of the Word as well as his reading or pronouncing by heart a Homilie or Sermon of his own or any other mans Repl. When

scandalous sinner may come to make this thanksgiving THus have we in all humble pursuance of his Majesties most gracious endeavours for the publick weal of this Church drawn up our thoughts and desires in this weighty affair which we most humbly offer to his Majesties Commissioners for their serious and grave confideration wherein we have not the least thoughts of depraving or reproaching the Book of Common-Prayer but a sincere desire to contribute our endeavours towards leading the distempers and as far as may be reconciling the minds of Brethren And in as much as his Majesty hath in his gracious Declaration ond Commission mentioned new Forms to be made and suited to the several parts of worship we have made a considerable progresse therein and shall by Gods assistance offer them to the reverend Commissioners with all convenient speed And if the Lord shall graciously please to give his blessing to these our endeavours we doubt not but that the peace of this Church will be shortly setled The hearts of Ministers and People comforted and composed and the great mercy of Unity and Stability to the immortal honour of our most dear Soveraign bestowed upon us and our posterity after us August 30. 1661. FINIS To the most Reverend ARCHBISHOP AND BISHOPS And the Reverend their Assistants Commissioned by his Majesty to treat about the Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer Most Reverend Father and Reverend Brethren WHen we received your Papers and were told that they conteined not onely an answer to our Exceptition against the present Liturgy But also severall Concessions wherein you seem willing to joyn with us in the Alteration and Reformation of it Our expectations were so far raised as that we promised our selves to find our Concessions so considerable as would have greatly conduced to the healing of our much to be lamented Divivisions the setling of the Nation in Peace and the satisfaction of tender Consciences according to his Majesties most gracious Declaration and his Royal Commission in pursuance thereof but having taken a survey of them we find our selves exceedingly disappointed and that they will fall far short of attaining those happy Ends for which this meeting was first designed as may appear both by the paucity of the Concessions and the inconsiderablenesse of them they being for the most part Verbal and Literal rather then Real and Substantial for in them you all allow not the laying aside of the reading of the Apocrypha for Lessons though it shut out some bundreds of Chapters of Holy Scripture and sometimes the Scripture it self is made to give way to the Apochryphal Chapters you plead against the addition of the Doxology unto the Lord's prayer you give no liberty to omit the too frequent repetition of Gloria Patria nor of the Lord's Prayer in the same publick Service nor do you yield the Psalmes be read in the new Translation nor the word Priest to be changed for Minister or Presbyter though both have been yielded unto in the Scottish Liturgy you grant not the omission of the Responsals no not in the Let any it self though the Petitions be so framed as the people make the prayer and not the Minister nor to read the Communion service in the Desk when there is no Communion but in the late Form instead thereof it is enjoyned to be done at the Table through there be no Rubrick in the Common Prayer book requiring it you plead for the bolinesse of Lent contrary to the statute you indulge not the omission of any one Ceremony you will force men to kneel at the Sacrament and yet not put in that excellent Rubr. in the v. and vj. of Edw. 6. which would much conduce to the satisfaction of many that scruple it And whereas divers Reverend Bishops and Doctours in a paper in Print before these unhappy Wars began yielded to the laying aside of the Crosse and the making many material alterations you after xx years sad calamities and divisions seem unwilling to grant what they of their own accord then offered you seem not to grant that the clause of the fourth commandement in the Common Prayer book the Lord blessed the seventh day should be altered according to the Hebr. Exod. 20. the Lord blessed the Sabbath day you will not change the word Sunday into the Lord 's day nor adde any thing to make a difference between Holidaies that are of Humane Institution and the Lord's day that is questionlesse of Apostolicall practise you will not alter Deadly Sin in the Letany into Heynous Sin though it hints to us that some sins are in their own nature Venial nor that Answer in the Catech. of two Sacraments onely generally necessary to salvation although it intimates that there are New Testament Sacraments though Two onely necessary to salvation you speak of singing David 's Psalmes allowed by Authority by way of contempt calling them Hopkins Psalmes and though singing of Psalmes be an Ordinance of God yet you call it one of our principal parts of VVorship as if it were disclaimed by you And are so far from countenancing the use of conceived prayer in the publick VVorship of God though we never intended thereby the excluding of set Forms as that you seem to dislike the use of it even in the Pulpit and heartily desire a total restaint of it in the Church you will not allow the omission of the Benedicite nor a Psalm to be read instead of it nor so much as abate the reading of the chapters out of the Old Testament and the Acts for the Epistles But rather then you will gratifie us therein you have found out a new device that the Minister shall say for the Epistle you will not so much as leave out in the Collect for Christmas day these words this day though at least it must be a great uncertainty and cannot be true stylo veteri novo In publick Baptism you are so far from giving a liberty to the parent to answer for his own child which seems most reasonable as that you force him to the use of sureties and cause them to answer in the name of the Infant that he doth believe and repent and forsake the devil and all his worke which doth much favour the Anabaptistical opinion for the necessity of an actual profession of Faith and Repentance in order to Baptism you will not leave the Minister in the visitation of the sick to use his judgment of discretion in absolving the sick person or in giving the Sacrament to him but enjoyn both of them though the person to his own judgment seem never so unfit neither do you allow the Minister to pronounce the absolution in a Declarative and conditional way but absolutely and conditionately And even in one of our concessions in which we suppose you intend to accommodate with us you rather widen then heal the breach for in your last Rubr. before the Catech you would have the words thus altered That Children being