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A90976 The sun out-shining the moon, or, Righteousness excelling rottennness in answer to a lying scandalous paper, published by John Moone, entituled, The true light hath made manifest darknesse, &c. : but it is darkness put forth for light, as it will appear by that which followeth / and is published by John Price. Price, John, Welsh clergyman.; Bownd, William. Brief discovery of the the erroneous tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name of Quakers. 1658 (1658) Wing P3353; ESTC R43721 30,935 58

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shall be changed for the Trumpet shall sound they that have done good to the Resurrection of life and they that have done evil to the Resurrection of condemnation Here is thy objections and queries answered by him whom the world calls John Moons This Paper which he first makes mention of I sent to him I have not the Copy of else I would have set it down here but the effect of it was this John Moone hath charged me with Balaams sin and why but because I was a Register and he pressed upon me to prove my practise by Scripture and prove a Register in the Church of God Then I produced in my Letter that Scripture Nehem. 7.5 64. which is effectual to answer what he demanded and as he is full of confusion in other things so also in this in not distinguishing between the Church and Commonwealth to be an Officer of a just Law and justly executed is no sin neither is there any more error nor covetousnesse in it then is in any other calling whatsoever and wherein he compares me to Balaam who would by Witch-craft destroy all the people of God I will not trouble my self about it but leave such a plain case to the Reader to judge of the unequality of the comparison Here followeth several queries sent by John Moone and one John David to Hugh Evans and John Price which are as followeth Now having answered thy Paper and queries we have sent these few queries to be answered by Hugh Evans and thee and all your followers and so let them be particularly answered according to plain Scriptures if any of you can or else let your mouths be stopped for evermore First query What is the first principle of pure Religion and undefiled before God and whether this pure Religion is to be attained here while men are this side grave yea or nay John David and John Moone this in brief touching your queries We answer to your first That it is repentance from dead works and that is attainable this side the grave or the natural death Be ashamed of your ignorance in asking such a question as whether pure Religion is attainable in this life Second query What that light is which lighteth every man that comes into the world and whether that light is within in the conscience yea or nay Second Answer Christ is that light and it shineth in some men's conscience and not in all for Esai saith that there be some men which have no light in them Third query Whether that light which is come into the world which is the condemnation of the world be sufficient to lead them to Salvation yea or nay Third Answer It is sufficient Fourth query Whom God spake to when he said Let us make man in our own image and where that Garden of Eden is where the Lord God put man whom he had formed Fourth Answer God spake to himself as he was Father Son and Spirit and as touching the Garden of Eden where it is and seeing you would have us to prove by plain Scriptures we direct you to the first Book of Moses and the second Chapter not because we have no more to say of it but that Ismael is not worthy of it or you scoffers Fifth Query Where is that flesh and blood to be obtained except a man eateth thereof he hath no life in him now if any of you can witnesse life declare whether it be a this side grave yea or nay Fifth Answer That flesh and blood is in the believer and he eateth and drinketh thereof Sixth Query Whether they that are Baptized into Jesus Christ his death be not made free from sin yea or nay Sixth Answer They are made free from the condemning Power of sin Seventh Query Whether there be any true Church but that Church in God and whether any in that Church were persecutors or went for the wages of unrighteousnesse Shew one Example in all the Scriptures if you can or else repent and be ashamed for the evil of your wayes Seventh Answer There is no true Church out of God but are by Faith in God neither doth that Church persecute nor bring a Justice of Peace with them to threaten those that comes peaceably to enquire and to try the truth of its doctrine as you have done to us nor do any of them go for the wages of unrighteousnesse and we do exhort you to repent of your lying in accusing us of any such things Eighth Query Where that voice is to be heard which gathers into one sheep-fold and where that sheep-sold is and whether any of them which follow the one Shepherd may be plucked out of his hands yea or nay Eighth Answer Where the true Teacher is there the voice is to be heard And where the Saints are gathered there is the Sheepfold and they that follow Christ cannot be plucked out of his hands but if any of them will leave following of him by hearkening unto such seducers as you are them they may come to ruine Ninth query Where that City of the living God and Heavenly Jerusalem is and the Church of the first born and where the Spirits of the just men made persect is and whether this may be known and witnessed this side the grave yea or nay Ninth Answer That City is where the presence of God in peace is And we shall more fully possesse it when mortality shall be swallowed up of life Tenth query Where that bottomlesse Pit is where all them that doth wickedly and forget God shall be thrown into if any of you can declare JOHN DAVIES JOHN MOONE Tenth Answer Where the presence of God is not in peace there the bottomlesse Pit is If you are not satisfied with this answer do you appoint the time and place and send us word we will give you the meeting and will reason with you provided that you will be civil Hugh Evans John Price These fore-going answers were sent unto John Davies and John Moone from Hugh Evans and my self speedily after the receiving of theirs and seeing that John Moone hath put forth a Book why did he not put forth all that had passed in writing between us but in stead of that he gathered a parcel of his own forged lyes against us as I shall make hereafter manifest Here followeth another scandalous Paper which was sent to us from John Moone and John Davies which is as followeth A reply unto the answer of Hugh Evans one of the blind Priests in Radnorshire in Wales which he hath made unto certain queries which was given unto him and John Price one of his followers by us who are known to the world by the names of John Moone and John Davies wherein their blindnesse and Ignorance is made manifest Answer Whereas thou sayest that repentance from dead works is the first principle of pure Religion herein is thy blindnesse and Ignorance made manifest unto all them which will not be wilfully blind and thou Hugh Evans art found
meeting in the Parish of Llauvr in Raduorshire where Hugh Evans was exercising his Gifts to the edifying and building up of his Brethren in the Faith and fear of the Lord and in his exercise he said to this effect That there is a threefold nature in the people of God The Divine Nature The Humane Nature And the Serpentine Nature The seed of the Serpent under the feet of the seed of the Woman the seed of the Serpent bruising the heele but the seed of the Woman bruising the head then one John David a Quaker so distinguished from other men spake to this effect or these very words I deny thy third there is but two stop thy mouth the Plagues and Judgements of God is thy portion and with many presumptuous words in the name of the Lord he railed much against us and so began to teach the people and held forth that there is but two things light and darknesse God and the Devil the seed of the Woman and the seed of the Serpent and many things to that purpose After him John Moone began his Lesson but Hugh Evans made some reply to this effect That if it was so as they said that there is but two things light and darknesse God and the Devil the seed of the Woman and the seed of the Serpent then what is that which is to be saved or to be damned for it is impossible for the seed of the Serpent to be saved nor for the seed of the Woman to be Eternally damned But John David did give no sound answer and I believe that all rational men will say that he could not Then this question was by us propounded to John Moone but his answer was no better then the other Whereupon the said John Moone stared in Hugh Evans his eyes and asked him many questions though they themselves cry out against others for asking of questions some of them I can yet remember The first question he asked him was this Art thou come to the beginning He answered I am come to the beginning and the end Christ Jesus Again he asked him Hast thou eaten of the Tree of Life He said He had Then John Moone said How comest thou there Thou knowest what the sword of the Cherubin is Hugh Evans said It is the anger of God Then he asked What the Soul was Upon that I desired Hugh Evans not to answer him knowing them to be but the Cavillers questions Then John Moon said to the people This man who is your Teacher knoweth not what the soul is Then Hugh Evans said Answer not a Fool according to his folly lest thou be like him yet answer a Fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceit And so Hugh Evans stood up and read this Scripture And God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living soul and so gave the people a Description of the soul of man And after he had done some that were there desired John Moone to gainsay if he could what Hugh Evans had said concerning the soul but he did not much confused discourse hath been that day which cannot be repeated neither is it worth the repeating At another time there was a meeting of theirs at a place called Yscwriw to which meeting Hugh Evans and others went and he accused them of denying the Resurrection and desired time and silence to prove it but could not have it but much bruitish and unreasonable Behaviour shortly after I sent these ensuing queries to John Moone First Whether God and man was not two distinct things after he had created him Secondly Whether man onely did not sall from that peaceable estate which God had created and stared him in and no part of God fell with him or in him Thirdly Whether that formed creature man or that body which God created in the beginning did not become mertal and must die the natural death Fourthly Whether that body or the bodies of all men shall not at the last day or at the dissolution of this world and all Creatures be raised up out of the Earth and receive a just Sentence These queries he did take upon him to answer But I will leave it to the Reader to judge what manner of answer it is Their answer with their queries are as followeth John Price I having received thy Paper wherein thou seekest to put a Cloak on thy errors which Paper I am made free to answer for the innocent sake and not to satisfie thy busy mind First Whereas thou broughtest the Scripture in Nehene 7.5 64. to be a Cloak for thy error and covetousnesse but the Scripture doth declare against all errors and covetousnesse wherein thou art shut out of the Scriptures and art a stranger to the life of God which gave forth the Scriptures living in thy Ignorance and covetousnesse wresting the Scriptures to thy own destruction Answer It is not for that word Register that I charged thee withall for the word in its place I own But for that thou dost follow the way of Balaam who loved the wages of unrighteousnesse but was rebuked for his Iniquity and so I rebuke thee and whereas thou hast confusedly written in thy Paper concerning Justice of the Peace and naming no man yet for truth sake I answer All that are true Ministers of God and Magistrates I own and all that are just and do justice is more acceptable to the Lord then sacrifice and all that acts for the punishment of the Evil-doers and the praise of them that do well For so is the will of God that with well-doing we may put to silence the Ignorant and the Foolish men And herein is our Father glorified and the Enemies of God discovered and all them that acts not according to that which is just I deny An Answer to thy queries First Query Whether God and man was two distinct things after he had created him Answer The Lord God is Eternal and endures for ever and he formed man of the dust of the Earth which is Carnal The second Query Whether man onely did not fall from that peaceable estate which God had created and stated him in and no part of God fell with him or in him Answer It was man onely that brake the Command of God as by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned herein I deny that that which is of God should fall into sin or Iniquity The third Query Whether that formed Creature man or that body which God Created in the beginning did not become mortal and must die the natural death Answer All flesh shall perish and man shall return to the dust from whence he was taken The fourth Query Whether that body or the bodies of all men shall not at the last day or at the dissolution of this world and all Creatures be raised up out of the Earth and receive a just Sentence Answer All