in Infancy and themselves at Age do own the Covenant and think that it was valid Baptism For to such the end of Baptism is attained If it were no Minister or were one unauthorized that baptized him it would not be a meer nullity as to the ends if by mistake it were supposed well done Factum valet was judged by some when Athanasius by a Boy was baptized in Sport. L. What is your fourth Objection against our way of Baptism M. That in personating the Child they say that they and so he by them doth at present Believe renounce desire c. falsely intimating that Infants are bound at present to do this by another And yet the same men plead that God doth not accept him for the Faith of his Parents As if his Godfathers Faith were his and not his Parents when as God requireth no Faith or Repentance of Infants but only that They be the Seed of penitent Believers devoted to Christ. And in the Catechism it is said that Repentance and Faith are required of persons to be Baptized And Repentance and Faith have a promise of Life and that Infants who cannot perform these are Baptized because they promise them by their Sureties which promise when they come to Age themselves are bound to perform Where note that the former Book had They perform them by their Sureties They perceived that having said Faith and Repentance are requisite Infants they saw must have at present what is requisite at present And they knew that they had them not themselves and so were fain to hold that the Sureties Faith and Repentance was theirs and a performance of that required condition But our new Bookmakers saw that this would not hold and so they say Though Faith and Repentance be required of persons to be baptized yet Infants are baptized because they promise them by their Sureties to be hereafter performed amending the former errour by a greater or a double one 1. Granting that Faith and Repentance are pre-requisit and yet confessing that Infants have neither of their own or Sureties imputed to them and yet are to be baptized 2. Or making a Promise of future Faith and Repentance to be present Faith and Repentance 3. Or like the Antimonians that say all that are Elected to believe hereafter are justified before they believe so they imitate that though Faith and Repentance be requisite in baptizandis yet God at present will justifie and save all that have it not in infancy because they promise it hereafter All plain contradictions as if they said it is requisite in persons to be baptized and it is not requisite L. How would you have them have answered these M. Professed Faith and Repentance are requisite in adult persons to be baptized And in Infants that they be the Seed of the Faithful devoted by them to God in Christ according to his offered Covenant of Grace L. V. What mean you by your fifth Objection M. Alas the worst is yet behind The common Perfidiousness that is committed under the name of Godfathers Baptismal Vows and Covenants Baptism is one of the greatest actions of all our Religion and Lives Our rising from Death to Life our visible new Birth our solemn Covenanting with God the Father Son and Holy Ghost Our solemn Translation from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God that we may receive remission of Sin and inheritance among the Sanctified What more holy great and venerable action can be done by mortal man than to enter a solemn Covenant with God and our Redeemer in which we wholly give up our selves to him and Covenant for a holy Life and are to receive the pardon of all sin and the gift of Grace and right to Everlasting Glory And if men turn this great Ordinance which is the Summ of all our Religion into perfidiousness and mockery how heinous sin must this needs be And here let us consider I. Who these Godfathers in England usually be II. What they do III. How they perform what they Vow and undertake L. I. They are usually some of the Parents Friends M. They are usually such as these 1. The poor that have no rich Friends do sometimes intreat a poor neighbour to do the office and sometimes hire any man that will do it Which I never knew tell in London by begging they made me understand that men do it as Labourer's work for their wages About half a Crown is the ordinary pay of Beggers or very poor Folks Godfathers But the Poor and Middling sort do use to try some rich Friend or Neighbour if they have any such in hopes of some small gift some give us for the Child a Shilling some half a Crown some a silver Spoon The Richer sort seek to persons rather above than below their Rank in expectation of a piece of Plate or some such bigger gift And in other Nations Princes are Godfathers to Children whom they never see nor perhaps the Land of their nativity And with us it is very often some that dwel not very near who oft sevre as Proxy to stand in their place and they only give the expected gift and bear the name II. What they are to do I told you before 1. To personate the Child and take on them to say as in his name I believe I renounce I desire when they are three and the Child but one and so three persons by fiction represent one and say that He doth that which he doth not either per se vel per alios 2. They Vow or promise solemnly to do all the things before named Ch. 4. Numb 7. viz. To see that the Child be taught as soon as he shall be able to learn what a solemn Vow Promise and Profession he made by them and that they call on him to hear Sermons and chiefly that they provide that he may learn the Creed the Lord's Prayer and the Ten Commandments in the Vulgar Tongue and All other things that a Christian ought to know and believe to his Souls health and that he be virtuâ—usly brought up to lead a Christian and Godly life All this they solemnly undertake to God and the Church III. And so far are they usually from performing it That 1. I never yet knew one Parent that expected any such thing from them or that ever seriously asked them Do you understand what you are to promise and do you resolve to do it 2. I never in all my life knew one Godfather that made the Parent before hand believe that he intended any such thing 3. If he had it 's not credible that three persons should all intend to educate one child of another man's and perform it 4. Nor did I yet ever know to this 68th year of my age one Godfather that before adopted the child or took him for his own and took him home with him unless he was a Grandfather and did it as such and not as Godfather much less could all three do it 4.
Offices as a Body of many Members or a Chain of many Links as we say Bonum est ex Causis integris And he that wounds any one Member wounds the Man and he that breaketh one Link breaketh the Chain And he that accuseth any one part of the Government accuseth the Government thereby And there is no doubt in the World but they so intended that made this Canon L. And what have you against your Obedience to this M. You may easily know what by what is already said 1. I have fully proved as aforesaid in my Treatise of Episcopacy that if Episcopacy were never so certainly of Divine Institution this Form of Diocesan Prelacy deposeth quantum in se the old Church Form the old Episcopacy the old Presbytery and almost all true Discipline and in stead of each sets up that which is repugnant to the Word of God. And must we all confederate to maintain this Church Corruption and all agree to renounce Reformation or any Conviction tending to Repentance 2. I have told you what it is for Lay-men and Courts to arrogate the Decretive Power of the Church Keys and for single Priests and Officials to rule all the Clergy and People as under them And for our Prelate to undertake to be the sole Bishop over many Hundred Clergy And then to Govern per alios in a secular manner even by Lay-men that do that in his Name which he knows not of and this in order to Gaols and Ruine If all this be agreeable to God's Word what is contrary to it 3. I have told you what it is to make every Church Officer so necessary as that it should be Excommunication to say Any one of them is sinful when as Learned good Men as most the World hath have written to prove almost all of them sinful corrupt Inventions of Arrogance and that it 's far worse for Men to presume to make new Forms and Offices of Church Government than new Ceremonies 4. The Parliament of England condemned the Oath called the caetera Oath in the Canon of 1640. And the late long Parliament of 1662. never restored it nor any since And was it not formed according to this Canon What 's c. but And the rest that bear Office therein reliquos ad ejusdem gubernaculum constitutos For my part tho' I have oft read over Cousins Tables and the Canons I do not yet know and remember all the Church Governing Courts and Offices How many there be besides the Bishop the Chancellors Court the Arches the Prerogative Court the Arch-deacons Commissaries Officials Surrogates I know not And are every one of these become as necessary to be taken for lawful as the twelve Apostles or the Articles of our Creed For my part I am far from thinking that those Bishops and Doctors should be Excommunicated or Damned who by Faction are drawn to deny the Ministry and Churches that have not Prelatical Ordination and Government and shall all be condemned that think as ill of Civilians Excommunicatings 5. I have told you what it is for every Lord Knight and Gentleman that doth but say that any of these Church Governing Offices are against the Word of God to be ipso facto an Excommunicate man. And for the people to be put to question whether they may chuse them for Parliament men and whether they may sit in Parliament while Excommunicate L. This Canon with the three or four adjoining make me begin to think hardlier of the Canoneers than I thought I should ever have done as to their honesty M. I would not have you think too hardly of them but only to think truly of Nonconformity Chap. XXVII Point XXIV Of Publishing the 8th Canons Excommunications L. VVHat is the Eighth Canon and its Excommunication M. Whoever shall hereafter affirm or teach that the Form and Manner of Making and Consecrating Bishops Priests or Deacons containeth ANY THING in it that is repugnant to the Word of God Let them be Excommunicated ipso facto and not to be restored until he repent and publickly revoke such his wicked Errors L. What have you against the Execution of this M. A great deal In sum it is unrighteous oppressing and dividing to cast out all Persons from the Church of Christ who think that nothing is faulty in the Book of Ordination or in their Principles or Practice there expressed And we dare not curse those that Christ doth bless should we do this for a Benefice in what should we differ from the sin of Balaam who loved the wages of unrighteousness whose iniquity and madness his Ass rebuked saith St. Peter 2 Pet. 2. 15. Yea shall we not be far worse than he that for an House full of Silver and Gold could not go beyond the Word of the Lord and did not curse but bless Gods people And it is not proud malignant Tongues reviling Gods Servants and calling their Opinions wicked Errors that will make Christ disown his Members or will warrant Balaam or us to curse them O how unlike is this to the Spirit and Ministry of Christ for Prelates and Priests to curse and cast out the Children of God for saying that they go against his Law. L. But what is amiss in the Book of Ordination M. I am anon to tell you that But if there were nothing amiss in it yet the belief of its innocency is not necessary to Salvation L. But if every man have leave to accuse the Orders of the Church what Order can be maintained M. 1. Leave modestly to express dissent in a doubtful case may stand with Order 2. If men do it disorderly there be other Penalties besides ipso facto Excommunication Every breach of the peace is not Rebellion nor punisht with Death But I 'll tell you briefly what may occasion good men to say that their Ordinations are sinful 1. In that they thereby obtrude Pastors on the Churches upon the bare choice of a Patron without or against the peoples wills 2. In that they professedly ordain such as their Canon forbids to Preach or Expound any Doctrine 3. In that they determine that Bishops Priests and Deacons are three distinct Orders which yet is an undetermined Controversie among even the Learnedst Papists And must we damn and cut off men for that which the very Papists leave at liberty 4. In that they ordain men to an Office which Scripture maketh no mention of Dr. Hammond saith that it cannot be proved that there were any Presbyters subject to Bishops in Scripture times nor any but Bishops None that had not power of Ordination and the Keys nor any Bishops of a multitude of Churches and Presbyters both which are here ordained 5. In that they Swear Obedience to Arch-bishops and their Sees and make Priests Covenant Obedience to their Ordinaries as aforesaid If a godly man do as Bucer did to King Edward the Sixth as you may see in his Scripta Anglic. and desire some of these faults to be amended doth he deserve
pretence of concord or decency in God's service we can but wish and speak for better L. But they say if nothing unlawful be imposed it is disobedience to refuse it And if disobedience be endured no Government can stand M. 1. Judge by what is said whether no Sin be imposed 2. Obedience to God being more necessary than to man all just Rulers should encourage a due fear of sin and do nothing that tempts men from obeying God. 3. God himself doth not silence eject or condemn men for all disobedience else none could be saved All sin is disobedience to God. There is disobedience in small things as well as in great and of ignorance and infirmity as well as of malicious wilfulness And what smaller matter can there be than Humane Forms and Ceremonies and where is ignorance more excuseable than in things so minute and so uncertain and hard that they must all be wiser than you and I that know them to be lawful and what Unity will be in that Church and Kingdom that will endure none but such as are wiser than you and I L. 8. Your 8th Article preventeth all the objections against Ministers power and liberty while all are under Law responsible But what if the Rulers be Bishops or men that distaste your desired discipline M. We are not choosing Rulers by the sword but only Pastors to guide us by God's word and if we shall have bad ones we must patiently suffer we cannot remedy such infelicities L. But both Papists and many others say That the Iudgment of Ministers Doctrine and Ministry belongeth not to the Magistrate but to the Church M. Iudgment is as various as Execution e. g. If one be a Heretick or turbulent in Schism 1. The Magistrate is judge whether and how he shall be Corporally Punished 2. The neighbour Churches are Judges whether they will owne his Communion as approved 3. His own Flock are discerning Iudges whether he be fit to be trusted and owned as their Pastor or to be forsaken by them We must not imitate Papists in exempting Ministers from the Magistrates Government L. 9. I confess your Reasons against Constraining Infidels to Profess Christianity are undeniable and agree with the sence of the Antient Church and Fathers But the Papists and many Protestants hold that when once men are Baptized they may be forced to Communion and all other Christian Duty M. What if they openly apostatize and turn Infidels Iews or Mahometans will they yet force them to Communicate in the Lord's Supper L. No but they will put them to Death as they Burn Hereticks M. That 's their way but not Christ's way Why should they put Apostates or Hereticks to death any more than Infidels that never believed L. Because they break their Covenant and because they sin against the Laws which they consented to M. And doth not sinning against God's Law In neither Consenting to nor Obeying it deserve as bad If God by many years Preaching call one man to Christianity and he derides it to the last and another took it up but by Education and the Law of the Land and never heard and understood the Reasons of it and turneth from it being taken prisoner by the Turks which of these is the greater sinner God binds them to Believe and Consent that do not and they sin against God's Law which is more than to break their own Covenant as such But both these deserve death and worse from God But if it were Christ's way to have men put one of them to death I see not but why they should do so by the other Torment or Death is no fitter way to make an Apostate believe than other Infidels It 's known that all the ancient Churches abhorred this forcing and punishing way I have wondered at the Impudence of Baronius Binnius and other Papists and justifie Martin for separating from the Communion of the Bishops that were for punishing the Priscillianists by the sword and Canonize him as a Saint and condemn these Bishops for it and yet are for for more cruelties themselves to far better men than the Priscillianists But where Fleshly interest is a mans Religion no wonder if it have neither consistency with Reason nor Modesty L. But if none but Volunteers be Christians or Communicants most will despise the Church and it will be empty M. All that are fit to be there will come in And those few will give the Pastors more comfort and lesser trouble than the multitude of the uncapable If your purse be not quite full of Gold will you fill it up with dung or stones The uncapable will do better for themselves and the Church among the Audientes or Catechumens It is their forcing in the uncapable that hath corrupted the Church and deprived the Flock of their due privileges choosing their Pastors c. because it 's made up of men unworthy of them And doubtless if you but countenance and preferr the Communicants before the rest it will draw in more than are capable without force L. If the Excommunicate be no further punished nor forced to repent the Church censures will be despised How little will men care for an Excommunication M. This is commonly said and much of it is true But 1. Can you force men to Repent or rather Lye You make him Repent that he brought himself into your hands and into suffering But that is not to Repent of Sin. Will you tell a man before hand If thou wilt but say thou repentest rather than lye in Gaol till death we will pronounce thee absolved and forgiven in Christ's Name Who can think ill enough of such an Absolution 2. Do not they scorn Christ that say he hath advanced his Church to the Dignity of Government by putting into their hands a Reed for a Scepter and a Leaden Sword that will do nothing without the Magistrate's Sword of Steel Hath he set up an useless mock-power in the Church 3. Did the Primitive-Churches for 300 years use any Sword but Spiritual Or did they find it so uneffectual and vain 4. Yea for some hundred years after there were Christian Magistrates did not the Church abhorr such a thing as forcing the Excommunicate to repent by imprisonment or the Sword 5. No man is meet to be a just Member that careth not for a just Excommunication And still this sheweth what a wickedness it is to force in the unmeet that despise God's Ordinance and the Church that they are in And then God's Ordinance must be debauched for their unfitness 6. The Sword doth the Keys much more hindrance than help when it is thus annexed to them for then it cannot be discerned whether Excommunication do any Good or none or whether it be only the Sword that doth the cure And do not they that profess Excommunication to be vain without the Sword teach men to call them as Church Governours Vain and to despise them And is it not all one as to say if any good be done