haue beene hither to frustrate and the strength of the Turke is increased by our warres The second is that vnder pretext of making warre against the Turke the Popehath vsed to rake mony to gether for their pardons And he concludeth that without repentance and the ouerthrow of the Popes tyrannie there is no hope to preuaile in warre against the Turkes because God is not on our side butiustlie incensed against vs. Quantòrectius saith he faceremus c. How much better should we do if first with our praiers yea rather by changeing the wholl course of our life we reconcile God vnto vs And then that the Emperours the princes would restraine that Idole of Roome from tyrannie deceit and destroying of souies For that I also maie once prophecie although I know I shall not be heard Except the Pope of Rome be brought vnder all Christendome is vndonne Let him flie as Christ hath taught into the mountaines he that can or with confidence let him offer his life to death vnto the Romish murtherers The Popedome can worke nothing but sinne and destruction what will you more But who shall subdue the Pope Christ by the brightnes of his comming and none other Lord who hath beleeued our preaching he that hath eares to heare let him heare and let him absteine from the Turgish warre while the name of the Pope preuaileth vnder heauen I haue said By this you maie see that Luther fauored not the empire of infidelitie but sheweth by what meanes it maie be resisted Againe he forbiddeth not defense against the Turke but inuasion of the Turke when we maie be at peace with him For that it is lawfull to fight against the Turke in our owne defense he sheweth his opinion in consut Rat. Latomianae where he derideth the follie of Latomus and the diuines of Louane which racked the decree of Pope Leo to this sense that it was needles to answer the aduersaties of religion which is as great wisedome of the schoole of Louane in proceeding against Luther as if when the Turke doth set vpon vs which is no waies lawfull for him and yet he will not be staid we should send the diuines of Louane embassadors vnto him which should saie vnto him It is not lawfull for thee to fight and if thou do we will condemne thee and so suffer him to raunge at his pleasure and yet boast that we haue gotten the victorie Nay saith he let vs laie aside praiers and all spirituall armour and cease to resist the deuill denouncing vnto him and saying It is not lauful for thee to trouble the Church of God So that Luther by these wordes declareth his iudgement that it is as lawfull for vs and as necessarie with bodelie armour to defend our selues against the Turke assailing vs as it is to fight against the deuill with spirituall armour and to confute enemies of the trueth by the word of God For a fourth example of impietie you adde when he reprehended the Pope for defining beside scripture that the soule is immortall and calleth it a monster of the dunghill of Rome what ground of impietie doth he not laie In deed if Luther should denie the immortalitie of the soule as Pope Iohn the 23. did and was therefore conuicted and condemned in the Counsell of Constance wee would accurse Luthers memorie as much as the Popes But if Luther reprehended the Pope for deliuering that vpon the creditte of his owne definition and authoritie which is manifestlie grounded vpon the authoritie of holie scriptures what a slaunderous penne haue you He was charged by the Collectors art 37. to haue saide thus Certum est in manu Ecclesiae c. It is certaine that it is not in the hand of the Church or of the Pope at all to decree articles of the faith nay nor yet lawes of manners and good workes To this article Luther answereth thus Probo hunc sic c. This article I prooue thus 1. Cor. 3. No man can lay any other foundation beside that which is alreadie laide which is Iesus Christ. Here thou hast the foundation laid by the Apostles but euerie article of faith is part of this foundation therefore none other article can be laid then is alreadie laid There may be builded vpon as the same Apostle saith And therefore the Pope ought to be laide and builded vpon the same foundation but not to lay any foundation for all things to be beleeued are fully set forth in the scriptures Yet I permit that the Pope may make articles of faith to them that beleeue in him such as these are That the bread and wine are transsubstantiated in the sacrament That the essence of god doth neither beget nor is begotton That the soul is the substantiall forme of the bodie That he him seife is the Emperour of the world King of heauen and an earthly God That the soull is immortall And all those infinite monsters in the Romish dunghill of decrees that such as his faith is such may be his Gospell such his beeleeuers such his Church and that like lippes may haue like lettice and the cup a couer meete for it But we which are Christians and not Papanes doe know that there is nothing pertaining either to faith or good manners which is not abundantlie set forth in the holie scriptures that there is neither authoritie nor place for men to decree any other thing These wordes declare that what doctrine is true and needefull to be knowne must be receiued from God by the holie scriptures not from the Popes decrees or from any mortall mans authoritie It is maruaile you doe not charge Luther with holding the pluralitie of Gods because here prehendeth the Pope for defining that the essence of god can neither beget nor be begotton as wel as with denying the immortality of the soul. both which articles are to be taken out of the holie scriptures not from the authoritie of the Popes definition For though the Pope define any thing which is true yet it must not be receiued vpon his creditte but vpon the authoritie of Gods worde And seeing the Popes decrees doe containe such a number of vntruethes the articles of faith from the Popes decrees may receiue discredit rather then authoritie But all thinges must be examined according to the worde of God writen which is the truth yea euen the scripture comming from the mouth of the deuill Againe I wish the reader to consider how truelie you saie that Luther calleth that opinion of the immortalitie of the soule a monster of the dunghill of Rome when he speaketh of the infinite monsters of falsehoode that are found in the dunghill of the Popes decrees where of he maketh no expresse mention in answere to this article The last example of impiety is when Luther affirmeth and mantaineth that neither man nor Angell on earth can laie any one lawe vpon any one Christian further then he will him-selfe What foundation say you
to vs. So that after that daie no sinnes mortal could ordinariely be loosed but by theÌ„ that sacrament which in their ministery he then did institute FVLKE Now you come towarde the point when you promis to let vs see how your popish confession is of Christes institution It dependeth you saie directly vpon Christes owne wordes whose sinnes you doe forgiue c. That would we faine see how For you your selfe though you make a very disorderly syliogisme cannot tel which way to infer it vpon your premises But thus you reason If Christ gaue power to Priestes to forgiue or retaine sinnes then there must needes be some subiect to their power and iudgement I answere you that euery power draweth not a iudgement with it and therefore you foist in the word iudgement vnreasonablie although I graunt also a kinde of iudgement vnto them and that men are subiect to this power and iudegment of the ministers by whome is declared the infallible sentence of God Then saie you it is a cleare case that in the verie same words that power was deliuered to them the bond of obedience was also prescribed to vs. Of what obedience I pray you that we should obay them in any thing they shal speake or only when they speake in the word of the Lord If the latter only for no man wil graunt the former shew vs if you be able the Lords word and commaundement for sacramental confessoÌ„ as you terme it to be necessary Your conclusion hangeth as wel by your premises as confession dependeh vpon Christs words That after that date no sins mortall could ordinarilie be loosed 〈◊〉 by them and in that sacrament which in their ministery he then did institute All sin is mortall and deseruing death The wages of sinne saith the Apostle is death But your conclusion is confuted by your selfe afterward graunting sinnes to be remitted by baptisme and as for other sacraments I dare saie you will not exempt them but that sinnes are forgiuen by them And that which is the chiefe matter in controuersie namelie that a sacrament was there and then instituted you alwaies affirme but neuer are able to prooue And whereas you affirme that the necessitie of auricular confession standeth not vpon positiue lawes but by Christes institution it is maruell that this institution should so manie hundreth yeares be vnknowne in the Church The Master of the sentences can saie nothing for it but alledgeth diuers authorities to and froe and in the end hath no certaine argument to perswade vs that it is of Christes institution Gratian likewise in his decrees after diuers testimonies producted on both sides whether it be necessarie or no concludeth in these words Quib authoritatibus vel quibuslibetrationum firmamentis vtroque sententia satisfactionis confessionis innitatur in medium breuiter exposuimus cui autem harum 〈◊〉 adhaerendum sit 〈◊〉 is iudicio referatur viraque enim 〈◊〉 habet sarientes religi osor viros Vpon what authorites and what fundations of reasons both the iudgement of satisfaction and confession doth leane we haue briefely brought forth and declared But to whether of these we ought chieflie to sticke it is reserued to the iudgement of the reader for either of both opinions hath wise and religious men fauorers of it If the Romish Church in Gratianstime had receiued the opinion of the necessitie of shrift to a Priest to be grounded vpon the institution of Christ neither he nor the Master of the sentences would haue bin in such a mamering about it wherfore it appeereth to be but young ware the institution whereof was so vncertaine to those principal pillers of popery In so much that the glosse vpoÌ„ the 5. aistinct In penitentia was bolde to vtter these wordes which should haue prooued him an heretike if the popish Churh in his time had held that confession was of Christs institution and not vpon any positiue laws In hac distinctione in aliis duabus sequentibus agitur 〈◊〉 de illa parte poenitentiae que dicitur oris confessio operis satisfactio quà m de aliis ider videndum est 〈◊〉 oris confessio fuerit instituta virum necessaria sit vel 〈◊〉 voluntaria qualiter sit facienda cui et quando dicunt quidam institutam fuisse in Paradiso 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 peccatum dicente Donino ad Adam Adam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ideo enim 〈◊〉 vt ipso conficente peccatum 〈◊〉 sorma aliis in posterum confitendi Sed quoniam in ille interrogatione dominus minùs expressè videbatur adconfirendum 〈◊〉 idro post exquisiuit á Cain fratricida expressiâ—s vbi est Abel frater tuus Alij dicunt quód sub lege primò instituta quando Iosua percepit Aâ—hor â—rimen sâ—um confiteri â—â— lapidatus est 45. dist secundum illud Alij dicunt quód in Novo testamento á Iacobo dicente consitemini alterâ—â—â—um peccata vestra c. Sed melius dicitur eam institutam fuisse a quâ—dâ—m vniuersale Ecclesiae traditione potius quám ex nouo vel veteri testamento authoritâ—s traditio Ecclesiae obligatoria est vt preceptum ait 1.1 di in his rebus Ergo necessaria est confessio in mortalib apud nos apud graecos non quoniam non emanauit apud illos traditio talis 〈◊〉 nec confisiunt in 〈◊〉 sed in firmentatis 5. di cap. 1. si illud ergo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alteruâ—rum peccata vestra 〈◊〉 consilium primó aliâ—â—uin liâ—oret et Grecos non obstanto eorâ—â— consuetudine In this distinction and the other two that follow it is intreated as well of that part of penance that is called confession of the mouth and satisfaction of the worke as of other partes And therefore it is to be seene when confession of the mouth was instituted whether it be necessarie or onelie voluntarie How it is to be made and to whome when Some say it was instituted in paradise immediately after sin committed when the Lord saide vnto Adam Adam where are thou for therefore he enquired that he confessing his sinne a forme of confessing should be giuen to others afterwarde But because in that confession the Lord secmed not so expresselie to haue warned him to confession therefore he enquired afterward of Cain the murtherer of his brother more expresselie where is Abel thy brother Other say it was first instituted vnder the law where Iosua commaunded Achar to confesse his fault and he was stoned 45. di sed illud Other saie that it was instituted in the new Testament by Saint Iames saying confesse your sinnes c. But it is better to saie that it was institutad by a certaine vniuersal tradition of the Church rather then by authoritie out of the new or olde testament And the tradition of the Church is of authoritie to binde as it is commaunded ar 11. di in these things Therefore confession in mortal sinnes is necessarie with vs but not with the Greekes because such tradition hath
not flowed vnto them Like as they make not the sacrament in vnleauened bread but in leauened 5. di 1. cap. si Therefore that saying of Iames confesse your sinnes one to an other was at the first but of counsel or els is should binde the Greekes notwithstanding the custome That which followeth in the glosse that confession in some case may be made to a laie man which also both Gratian Lumbard doe holde that which Bede writeth of confession of sins to euery man doth prooue that confessio to a priest is not of Christs institution by their iudgement For if it were it ought to be of all euery sin as wel as of those you cal mortall to a priest onelie For if Christ instituted a sacrament in these words whose sins you forgiue c. and ordeined a priest minister thereof by no other meanes but by hearing a sin ners particular confession as you seeme to holde what reason is there that a laie man should be a hearer of confession or an absoluer or that any sin be it neuer so small should not be confessed ALLEN And that is yet more euident by the second parte of Christes sentence where he saith whose sins you do reteine they be reteined The which worde retinere by Saint Hilarie signifieth non soluere or non remittere to reteinis as much as not to loose or not to forgiue Whercupon by Christes expresse wordes it ensueth that whose sinnes the priest doth not forgiue they be not forgiuen and therfore that euerie man beeing guiltie of deadelie sinne in his conscience is subiect to the priests iudgement by the plaine tearmes of Christs owne wordes Mary we must well note that the priest hath in other sacraments and namelie in Baptisme a right in remitting sinnes both originall and actuall but there in the graund pardon of all that is past he is not made a iudge or a corrector because the Church can not practize iudgement or exercise discipline vpon the penitents for any things done before they came iinto the householde and therfore can appoint the party no penance nor punishment nor binde him according to the diuersitie and number of his faultes nor can make search exactlie of all his secres sinnes by him committed that the sentence may proceede according to the parties desertes but onelie vpon his seeking that sacrament to minister it vnto him according to Christs institution whereupon without any sentence of remission giuen by the priest as I absolue thee or such like a pardon generall of all his sinnes committed if he come thether qualified most assuredlie ensueth But now in the other sacrament of penance not onelie pardon of sinnes but punishment for sinnes is put in the Apopostles and priests handes which can not be done without iudiciarie power and exact examination of the penitent because Christ would that if any did greeuouslie sinne after Baptisme he shold as it were be conuented before his iudgement seate in earth in which as in his roome he hath placed the Apostles priests as is alreadie prooued And therefore mens sinnes must in this case be knowne with diuersitie of their kindes and encrease by diuersitie of place time person number and intent For withoout this particular intelligence can neither the appointed iudges of our soules doe iustice nor the penitent receiue iustice for his offences Therefore it is euident that seeing this holie order is authorized not onelie to remit sinnes generallie as in Baptisme but also placed with all power ouer vs as the iudges of our sinnes we must needes by force of Christs institution be driuen to acknowledge and confesse all our sinnes to the Priest so sitting in iudgement vpon the examination of our conscience For no man euer tooke vpon him not in any ciuil causes to determine and giue sentēce in the matter whereof he hath not by some meanes or other persit and particular instruction and in causes criminall much lesse because the importance of the matter is much more Then in Gods causes and cases of our conscience and in things belonging directlie to mans euerlasting wealth or woe which is the life or death perpctuall of our soules there if either negligence in the iudge in searching out of our sins or consempt in vs in declaration opening confessing or cleare vtterance of them doe hinder the righteousnes of Gods iudgement executed by the Priests office or driuing them to giue wrong sentence of deliuerie and remission there the perill is exceeding great and the daunger wel neare damnation perpetual FVLKE Although to reteine is somewhat more then not to loose or not to forgiue yet the conclusion is true that whose sinnes the minister of the Gospell doth not forgiue of them that heare the Gospell they are not forgiuen But herofit doth not follow that euerie man is bound to shriue himselfe to the priest If you meane that by being subiect to the priests iudgement the minister of the gospell denounceth damnation to all impenitent and obstinate sinners vnto this sentence he is subiect by the plain tearmes of Christs owne wordes that is such a one But if he be truelie penitent in the sight of God he is absolued by the sentence of the minister which pronounceth in the name of God forgiuenes to all them that be truelie conuerted vnto God Wherefore here is no place for the necessitie of auricular confession except you can draw it in by the wordes of demonstratiue syllogismes which I suppose to be impossible and you your selfe shall in conscience confesse no lesse whensoeuer you dare goe about it As touching the difference you shew betwixt the priests office in remitting sins by Baptisme and penance it standeth altogether vpon your owne surmise without any authoritie of the holie scriptures For the minister of the ghospelis made as much a iudge whome to admit and whome to refuse from the sacraments as he is to pronounce whose sins be forgiuen and whose reteined Other iudgement or correction he hath not in the one nor in the other neither is there any punishments put into the Apostles or priests handes for those sinnes that are to be pardoned nor pardon to those that are to be punished The punishment is no lesse then the sentence of eternall damnation vnder which all obstinate and vnrepentant sinners doe remaine so iong as they continue in their obstinacie and impenirencie And therefore the power iudiciarie and exact examination of the penitent and the conuention before Gods iudgement feare in earth which should be the priest is nothing but imaginary vanitie without all ground of authoritie out of Christs institution wherefore except you can prooue that Christ by giuing his Apostles authoritie to sorgiue or reteine sinnes did giue this inordinarie power that you speake of and set vp this iudgement on earth like to the courts in ciuill iudgement in canonicall causes whatsoeuer you saie without warrant of Gods worde is as easily by vs denied as by you it
and the Pope haue two keies and they but one resolue vs these matters out of the holie scripture and you shall come somewhat nearer your purpose of pardons As for the communion of holie works which is betweene the heade and the members if you meane thereby the workes of men ioyned with the satisfaction or merites of Christ either shew vs where it is taught in the scriptures or giue vs le aue to denie it vntill you can prooue it ALLEN Perchaunce some Protestant will here call vs back and require proofe that there should be anie paine or tempor all correction remaining for those persons which hauetheir sinnes forgiuen by God in the sacrament of Penance or otherwise by the onelie faith of the partie penitent as he maie perhaps surmise If he list to be satisfied in this case let him turne backe and make a short view of the works of God since the beginning and there consider well whether God him-selfe hath not commonlie visited his children receiued to mercie with some correction answerable in respect of his iustice to the greeuousnes of the crime forgiuen Who is so froward or so rude but he may well discerne betwixt the sault of our first Father and the punishment of euerlasting damnation deserued thereby His sinne was one thing his deserued punishment an other thing his sinne was disobedience his punishment correspondent to that was euerlasting death Yet whensoeuer one of these two is forgiuen the other must needes be forgiuen also because he can neither be subiect to damnation whose sinne for which damnation was ordeined is forgiuen neither his fault be forgotten whose euerlasting punishing is pardoned which is the rewarde of sinne But now both these being once through Christ remitted to Adam as we read in the booke of wisedome who perceiueth not that he was for all that long afterward subiect to temporall death and manie other miseries both of this life and of the next beeing onelie punishments appointed by God for the ful satisfying euen of those sinnes which were forgiuen him FVLKE Out of all peraduenture we require proofe not onelie of this point but of manie more positions which you haue barelie affirmed to build your popish pardons vpon them And touching this point we do require proofe not onely that after sinnes and eternal paines remitted there are temporall paines remaining to satisfie Gods iustice but also if there were anie such remaining by what authoritie you should release them I know that often times after sinne remitted God sendeth or suffereth a temporal paine to remaine but that is not for satisfaction of his iustice but for a mercifull chastisement of his fatherlie discipline The punishment due to Gods iustice is eternall damnation for euery sinne as euen the glosse vpon the Extrauagant of Boneface the eight doth acknowledge And when God doth freelie remit the sinne he doth as freelie remit the punishment due for the same For what remaineth to be punished when the sinne is remitted Temporall paines therefore satisfie not his iustice but admonish his children of their ductie and make them carefull not to commit sinne which by his chastisment they are put in minde to be displeasing vnto him The temporall death and miseries that Adam was subiect vnto through his disobedience remained in him and his posteritie not as a satisfaction of Gods iustice for his sinne remitted and satisfied by Christ but as a monument and example of his iustice for sinne and therefore they remaine not onelie in the elect but in the reprobate for an admonition to beware of sinne vnto the Godlie and to take excuse awaie from the wicked of ignorance of Gods punishment for sinne yet are all those punishments vnto the Godie turned into blessings being either made his fatherlie chastisments for their amendment or els occasions of their eternall 〈◊〉 as aduersitie by humbling of them death by deliuering them into the possession of eternall life and therefore is blessednes pronounced both of the one and of the other But that Adam was subiect to anie miseries after this life or in this life as being onelie punishments appointed by God for the 〈◊〉 satisfying euen of those sinnes which were forgiuen him we denie vtterlie For the obedience of Christ was 〈◊〉 full satisfaction for the disobedience of Adam both for him and all Gods elect ofhis posteritie For if by the transgression of one manie haue died much more the grace of God and the free gift in grace which is of one man Iesus Christ hath abounded vnto manie For if through the transgression of one death hath raigned by one much more they which receaue the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousnes shall raigne in life by one Iesus Christ. For as by the disobedience of one man manie were made sinners so by the obidience of one man manie shall be made iust This and much more hath the Apostle to prooue that the redemption of Christ was more bountifull toward them which are iustified thorough faith then the transgression of Adam was rigorous to their condemnation which could not be if anie parte of Gods iustice remained to be satisfied by the punishment of the partie after his sinnes were remitted and he made iust by the redemption and iustification of Christ. Therefore the temporall paines whereto Gods children are subiect after their sinnes remitted are not left for the satisfiing of the iustice of God Or if you will needes contend that they are so left and that the Pope out of the treasure of the Church hath authority to pardon all such punishment or anie parte thereof let him make triall ofhis power in such corporal punishments as God laieth vpon his children for their corrections let him by his pardon release anie man of his sicknes age death if he can do none of these then either these are no punishments due to satisfie Gods iustice or els he hath no such power as is bragged of by dispensing of the treasure of Christes copious redemption to pardon men of all their punishment due to the iustice of God for sinne For if he had such power euerie sick man that receiueth a ple narie pardon à poena culpa should presentlie recouer of his disease yea I maruell how he should die if death be a penaltie due to the iustice of God for sinne which hath such a plentiful indulgence of all paines inioyned or deserued by sinne But if he cannot release one fit of an ague with all the pardons I maruell how he should release a man of all his paines of purgatorie yea spoile all purgatorie at once of all them that suffer paines therin except it be because he hath power onelie ouer that prison which is of his owne building and all that come therin but hath no power at all ouer them vpon whom God laieth any affliction either bodilie or spirituallie ALLEN Looke at the Prophet Dauid whether God corrected him not with temporall scourge after he
tali agone diuino caelesti auxilio vt vel srater adsit qui te consoletur promissionibus gratiae foris velintus in corde spiritus sanctus verbum fratris erigat ac animet ac sustentet cor tuum vt possis sic apud 〈◊〉 statuere Confessus quidem sum Lege dei conuictus coram diabolo me peccasse me damnatum esse vt Iudam Sed verto me ad Christum cum Petro respicio eius immensum beneficium meritum c. ille omnem horrendam damnationem damnauit Here those most holie fathers will answere me here they will laugh and say art thou a famous doctour and knowest not how to answere the deuill Dost thou not know that the deuill is a lyer how say you by that I giue you great thankes as you are worthie for so sweete comforse in so weightie a matter These three wordes the deuill is a lyar I should not haue knowne vntil now except you most notable diuines had taught me If I were a Papist vnexpert of all temptations whome Satan would not neglect beeing carles and snorting as he neglecteth them that follow their lusts c. I should be such a Giant also stout and valiant against the enemie that is absent If you should beare the stripes of the deuill and heare his disputations you should not longsing the song of the Church after the accustomed manner I verilie doe see sufficientlie in Dauid and the rest of the Prophets how greeuouslie they wrestle and groone in those combates and such like against the deuill and his horrible violence And Christ him-selfe although without sinne in what aboundance of teares and anguish did he siriue for vs in those conflictes against Satan For he vrgeth mans heart exceedinglie ceaseth not except he be driuen backe with the word of God And I am plainlie perswaded that Emser and Oecolampadius and such like were sodendlie slaine wieh these horrible stripes and shakings For the harte of man cannot abide this horrible and vnspeakeable violence except God be with him For Satan in the twinckling of an eie sodendlie ouerwhelmeth the wholl minde with terrors and darkenes and if he finde nothing but a man vnarmed and not instructed in the word as it were with a litle finger he ouerwhelmeth him all at once It is true in deed that he is a lyar but his lies are not of a simple craftes man but much more craftie and prepared to deceiue then mans capacitis can comprehend He doth in such sort set vpon a man take holde of him and that sound truth which can not be denied and that he vrgeth and sharpeneth so craftelie and subtillie and couereth it so cunninglie that he may deceiue them that take the best heede of him c. As that cogitation which strake the heart of Iudas was true I haue betraied innocent blood this could not Iudas denie But this was a lie therefore I must despaire of the grace of God And yet the deuill vrged this lie this cogitation so violentlie that Iudas was not able to ouercome it but despaired Therefore good brother Sir Papist the deuill doth not lie when he accuseth or vrgeth the greatenes of sinne For thereby he hath two graue witnesses that are vnreproouable the law of God and our owne conscience I can not denie but I haue sinned I cannot denie my sinne to be greate I cannot denie that I am guiltie of death and damnation c. but there Satan lyeth when he vrgeth further that I should dispaire of grace As Cain said my sinne is greater c. And in this conflicte thou hast neede of the helpe of God from heauen that either some brother be present which may comforte thee outwardlie with the promises of God or that the holie ghost inwardlie in thy heart through thy brothers word do lift vp and encourage the and comfort thy heart that thou maist determine thus with thy selfe I haue in deede confessed before the deuill beeing conuicted by the law of God that I sinned that I am condemned as Iudas but I turne my selfe vnto Christ with Peter and looke backe to his infinite benefite and merit c. he hath condemned all horrible condemnation c. Now I reporte me to euerie indifferent reader whether Luther doe not speake here of a spirituall conflicte or tentation vnto desperation for his saying of priuate masse after he knew that it was idolatrie not of any bodelie conference about the abolishing of the masse Secondlie that Luther doth not yeald to the perswasions of the deuill wherewith the defender confesseth that both good and euill men are assaulted but according to the difference by him obserued resisteth the assault and obtaineth victorie thorough Christ. But now let vs heare what arguments our defender bringeth to prooue this bodelie conference First the confession of the Tigurine Caluenists but that is false The Tigurines did onelie reprooue Luther for his intemperat inuectiues and naming of deuilles so often our wise defender concludeth ergo Luther had deuilles Secondly he saith it is euident that this conference was more then spirituall by the deuilles preface wherein he calleth the frier right learned Doctor according to the vaine of pride wherewith he saw him puffed vp c. But what reasonable man seeth not that this presace of his title was but a bitter scorne of the deuill no flattering speach to make him readie to receiue his impressions as the defender saith As for the sound of Satans voice described in the place alledged in the Censure there is none such For the booke demissa angulari so often alledged by the papists is none other but this de missa priuata vnctione sacerdotum as appeareth by the verie wordes noted by the Papists in lib. de missa angulari which are found here in this boke de missa priuata c. Therefore the sound of Satans voice is but some papists dreame vpon the matter which our defender would now hide vnder the title of de missa angulari The third reason is for that Luther confesseth some of his fellowes to haue beene slaine by this conference What he saith in his rash iudgement of Emser and Oecolampadius where of the one was a Papist the other a Protestant you heaue hard in his own words which prooueth no bodely conference For those terrible blowes and shakinges where of he speaketh are no more bodelie then the busfeting of Satan where of Saint Paul speaketh And who doubteth but that by such spirituall buffeting of Satan a man that is ouercome with exceeding sorrow may suddenlie die except he be assisted and comforted by the grace of Christ as Saint Paul was Finally the bushell of sault saith our defender which Luther confesseth himselfe to haue eaten together with the deuill prooueth that he had bodelie conference with him First the booke is not extant and if any such were yet it prooueth no bodelie conference For no man is so madde to thinke that
wher of the high Priest was a figure Neither was the citie of refuge appointed onelie for the triall of the slaughter whether it were willinglie or vnwillinglie committed as you saie but also for a kinde of punishment and detestation of manslaughter so that if the sleaer were found out of the City before the death of the high Priest the auenger of blood might kill him and not be charged with his blood Where you refuse the mysterie of Christes death in the death of the high Priest and flie to the fantasies of the Iewes you declare that you care not what you bring so you maie obtaine your purpose But Chri stian diuines as Cyrillus Maximus and others of the death of the high priest in that place gather deliuerance by the death of Christ. Saint Ambrose also is cleere that the high Priest in this place signifieth Iesus Christ and confuteth the politike reasons by you rehearsed out of R. Mose and R. Leui for that in causis paribus there was impar euentus In equal causes vnequall end For the high Priest might die saith he the next daie after the manslaier hath taken his refuge Againe he addeth that Christ is exors omnium voluntariorum accidentium delictorum void of all offences voluntarie and chaunceable by which he acknowledgeth vnwilling manslaughter to be an offence Saint Ierome also Dialog aduers. Pel. lib. 1. is plaine in that wholl case and sinne of ignorance and that he which is fled to the citie must tarie vntill the high Priest die that is vntill he be redeemed by the blood of our Sauiour Beda also vpon this place by his allegorie sheweth how he thought of that kinde of sinne Also Theodoretus in lib. Num. quaest 51. declareth both the mysterie of the high Priests death and sheweth that such vnwilling manslaughter is sinne Cur ad obitum Pontificis praescribet eireditum qui nolens interfecit Qnia 〈◊〉 Pontificis secundùm ordinem Melchisedech erat humani peccati solutio Whte vntill the death of the high Priest doth he prescribereturne vnto him which hath slaine a man vnwillinglie Because the death of the high Priest after the order of Melchisedech was the loosing of the sinne of man and so forth to the same effect And if all the politike reasons be graunted of the mans tarying vntill the high Priest die yet the mysterie of Christes death is not thereby taken away whoos 's blood clenseth vs from all sinne voluntarie or vnuoluntarie The last fault of the definition is that the Iesuites acknowledge not the sinne of ignorance you answer they do of that ignorance whereof a man him-selfe is the cause but not of that ignorance which the schoolemen call inuincible which is not in the doers power to auoid nor he fell into it by his owne defaulte as in the example of the Queenes subiect being in his Princes affaires in India and commaunded by proclamation in Westminster to appeare there at a certaine daie in which cause his absence is excused by inuincible ignorance This case graunted betweene the Prince and his subiect prooueth not that ignorance excuseth before God because there is not the like reason seeing no such ignorance whereby a man should transgresse the law of God is in man but by voluntarie and witting transgression of the first man and his owne negligence which maketh his fact sinfull because he is cause of his ignorance by negligence or in the sinne of Adam in whome you confesse that all men sinned At least wise if originall sinne be voluntarie by the sinne of Adam so also is the transgression of gods law in these cases of inuincible ignorance wittinglie committed by the same sinne of Adam Augustine whome you quote for your purpose speaketh of naturallignorance and infirmitie which is in insants not of that whereby men fall into error and so transgresse Gods law For that he calleth penall ignorance and difficultie which is iustlie laid vpon them that neglected to seeke knowledge and is sinfull therefore cannot excúse sinne Chrisostome whome you quote likewise is manifestly against you his wordes are these Quòdsi ea ignoraueris quae scriri non possunt praeter culpam eris siverò quae scitu possibilia sunt facilia extremas poenas merito dabis If thou be ignorant of those thinges which are not possible to beknowne thoushalt be blamles but if they be possible and easie to be knowne thou shalt worthelie suffer extreame punishment As in the cases of Abimelech with Abrahams wife and Iacob with Lea who if they had made diligent inquirie needed not to haue beene deceiued through ignorance Neither doth God excuse Abimelech from sinne altogether as you saie albeit he pardoned his ignorance and kept him from the fact of adulterie acknowledged his minde to haue beene free from the purpose of Adulterie For the punishmeut laid vpon him argueth what he deserued by his ouer hastie purpose of mariage with Sara and Abimelech confesseth that Abraham had brought vpon him and his Kingdom a great sinne Also when God saith to him I haue kept thee thatthou shouldest not sinne against me he declareth plainlie that if Abimelech had lien with Sara vpon that ignorance he had sinned against God But of Iacobslying with Lea in steade of Rachell you mooue a greater contention and alledge Saint Augustine in his defense But whosoeuer gaue you your notes through your negligence in not reading the places your selfe made you erre through ignorance For S. Augustine doth notin all those Chapters once touch the question whether Iacob sinned in that he did not regarde what woman was laid in his bedde by which negligence as Master Charke saith he might haue committed most horribleincest with his mother aunt or daughter Onelie he defendeth his Polygamie by the custome of that time and the contention of his wiues for their lodgeing with him and last of all allegorizeth vpon the wholl storie drawing the error of Iacob and all the rest to a mysterie Nor yet de ciuit dei lib. 16. c. 38. doth he defend his negligence rehearsing onelie how he came to haue foure wiues when he went into Mesopotamia for one onelie adding that because he had lyen with Lea vnwittinglie he did not put her awaie lest he might be thought to haue mocked her Neither hath Iustinus Martyr lib. de verit Christ. rel anie defense of Iacobs innocencie or excuse of his negligence in this fact but sheweth onelie what mysterie maie be gathered of his marriages as Saint Augustine doth Finallie Theodores your last auncient witnes agreeing with the rest saith that Iacob betrothed onelie Rachell and beside the purpose of his will had to doe with Lea. But immediatelie assoone as he perceiued the deceit he tooke it heauilie and complained to his father in law what word of defense or excuse of his fact committed through ignorance negligence haue you in this saying yet you conclude after your vaunting mannner And what one
worde can Master Chark now peepe against all this O you papists that with sinceritie of Religion haue not caste of all humane honestie doe you not blush at the impudent ignorance of this your defender And yet he is not ashamed to gather Master Charks absurd positions not one according to his meaning and but one onelie agreeable to his wordes First that sinne is no action where he holdeth that all sinne as the sinne of omission is no action Secondlie that no euill men doe sinne but the euill in men which he saith not but that man as he is the creature of God is not against the lawe but the euill in man Thirdlie that sinne is not voluntarie which he saieth not generally but of some sin speakeing properlie Forthlie that sinne is no humane or reasonable action which he saieth rather to be a beastlie and vnreasonable action of a man endued with reason Fiftlie that it requireth neither will nor knowledge in the doer where he saith that the transgression of Gods law is sin in some case and sort which is without the will and knowledge of the doer Last of all that fooles and madde men may as properlie commit sinne as others but this he saith not at al but that the infirmites of follie and madnes shal not excuse sin and that if a madde man or a foole kil a man in the Censurcrs iudgement it is properly no sinne Whereof you may inferr that it is sinne properlie but not that it is as properlie sinne as in others But if madde men and fooles coulde not commit sinne properlie whie are they punished for sinne To conclude where you saie that Master Charke reiecteth Saint Augustine about the definition of sinne it is false For these are his wordes Howsoeuer you alledge Austen to approoue your definition it is no waie so large as sinne and iherefore a most vnlearned definition These words of his declare that he reiecteth not Augustine in this matter but your false and fraudulent allegation of him which is manifestly shewed before by Augustines sound iudgement in his retractions The eight section Of sinne MAster Chark hauing said out of the definition of Saint Iohn which also Saint Ambrose doth vse as I haue shewed before that all transgression of the lawe is sinne was charged by the Censurer with transposition because the Apostles wordes lie thus in the text Sinne is transgression of the law Master Charke defendeth him-selfe alledging that these wordes sinne and the transgression of the law are as the definition and the thing defined which are mutuallie verified the one of the other The defender bringeth nothing to prooue that this is no definition but that which he hath saide in the section before which is ouerthrowne Onelie he quarrelleth that Master Charke said the Gospell is as generall as the power of God to saluation whereas Christ also is called the power of God to saluation As though the Gospell did not include Christ. For when it is said the Gospell is the power of God to saluation you must vnderstand the generall matter namelie the doctrine or the preaching That transposition of wordes is sometimes lawfull M. Charke sheweth by an example God is a spirite where the wordes lie in the text a spirite is God The defender wrangleth that it is not alwaies lawfull which shall be graunted vnto him without controuersie That in this question it is not lawful he hath nothing to prooue but a beggerlie demaund of that in question that transgression of Gods lawe is larger then sinne Where Master Chark alledgeth out of 1. Iohn 5. 17. that euerie iniquitie is sin he maketh no small adoe because the greeke word in that text is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which if they be not all one in sense let him enter an action against the vulgar interpreter which in both places translateth iniquitas Yea let him quarrell with Saint Augustine which vpon the place in question writeth thus Nemo enim dicat aliud est peccatum atque aliud iniquitas nemo dicat ego peccator homo sum sed iniquus non sum omnis qui facit peccatum iniquitatem facit Peccatum iniquitas est quid ergo faciemus de peccatis nostris iniquitatibus Let no man saie sin is one thing iniquitie is an other thing let no man say I am a sinful man but I am not vniust euery one that committeth sin doth commit iniquity for sin is iniquity what then shall we do with our sinnes and iniquities c You see here that S. Augustine accounteth sin iniquitie or vniustice to be all one So doth he in 1. Iohn Tr. 5. And where the Apostle vseth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is vnrighteuosnes what say you meaneth he generall iniustice or speciall If he meane generall as you must needes say for shame then it is as large as sinne and it is manifest that the Apostle vseth the worde Iustice as contrarie to sinne therefore iustice must needes be the same that sinne If you can make a diuersitie between general iniquity general iniustice you are wiser then the vulgar interpreter speciallie if he speake in this latter place of great sinnes onelie as you say whereas iniquitie in the former place may signifie such small transgression as is no sinne at all Verelie Oecumenius is against you and saith Simpliciter tanquam à genere peccati facit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnis iniquitas peccatum est hoc est siue sit ad mortem siue non He maketh a plaine diuision of sinne as it were from the generall and saith all inquitie is sinne that is whether it be vnto death or not And vpon 1. 〈◊〉 3. he saith Sciendum autem quòd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We must know that sin is a falling from that which is good 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 is an offence against the law and both of them hath this beginning namelie sinne the 〈◊〉 from that which is good iniquitie to doe against the law that 〈◊〉 And they agree the one with the other and are about the same thing For he which sinneth erreth from the marke which is according to nature and in nature is selfe For the scope or marke 〈◊〉 nature is to liue according to reason farre from vnreasonablenes Likewise he that doth 〈◊〉 offendeth about the lawe giuen in nature beeing affected intemperatelie Rectè ergo discipulus domini 〈◊〉 inidem 〈◊〉 Therefore the disciple of our Lorde hath rightlie vsed the one for the other Here iniquitie is as large as sinne Against this what haue you to saie Aristotell in praedicam qual For which I send you to Aristotell Eth. lib. 5. c. 1. But 〈◊〉 euery iniquitie is not sinne you haue Saint Augustine lib. 2. cont Iulian cap. 5. When you can set downe his wordes you shall receiue an answere in the meane time as you saie Master Charke reserued a sure carde for the ende I may
purpose teaching onelie that we are consecrated or made perfect by baptisme which is true in respect of sanctification and remission of sinnes but prooueth not that concupiscence which you confesse to be an euil thing remaining in the regenerate is chaunged in nature to be no sinne although it be forgiuen and shall not be imputed to the elect For the wrong quoting of Augustine do 〈◊〉 concupiscent You were best quarrell with your printer for Master Charke hath instlie charged your booke with error in the first edition whereunto he answered which you will not vnderstand but charge him with ignorance quarreling and impudencie whereas your quotation was twise lib. de nupt concupiscent And not as you saie now lib. 1. de nupt concupiscent You with that you were with Master Charke to see if he would blush at his ignorance by you discouered and cal backe your wish for feare of purseuants But I looke not at all that your brasen face should blush either at so small a fault or at so false a defense thereof which are not ashamed of a great number of more wrong and impudent quotationes then that is for which though no purseuantes shall attach you yet the reproch of them shall pursue you to the vtter confusion of your proude and arrogant Censure and more impudent and vnlearned defense Finallie Ambrose lib. 1. de voc gent. c. 5. hath not one worde to prooue that concupiscence in the regenerate is no sinne of it selfe But where Master Charke rehearseth not the verie wordes but the meaning of Saint Augustine expounding him-selfe in what sense he saith that concupiscence is not sinne you set abroad all the sailes of your rayling and venemous tongue and penne against him Saint Augustines words are dimitti concupiscentiam carnis in baptismo non vt non sit sed vt in peccatum non imputetur Quamuis autem reatu suo iam soluto manet tamen donec sanetur omnis infirmitas nostra proficiente renouatione interioris hominis de die in diem cúm exterior induerit incorruptionem non enim substantialiter manet sicut aliquod corpus aut spiritus sed affectio est quaedam malae qualitatis sicut languor Concupiscence of the flesh is remitted in baptisme not so that it is not but so that it is not imputed to sinne And albeit the guilt thereof be loosed yet it remaineth vntil al our infirmitie behealed the renuing of the inward man profiting from daie to daie when the outward man shall haue put on incorruption for it remaineth not substantiallie as a bodie or a spirit but it is a certaine affection of euill qualitic as a sickenes These words declare that concupiscence being an affection of euill qualitie which is as much to saie as sinne remaning in the regenerate although it be not imputed to them as sin for that if they 〈◊〉 against it it shall not preuaill against them to condemne them A sinne not imputed is a sinne of his owne nature The sinnes of Gods elect are not imputed to them they are forgiuen the guilt is taken awaie they are washed awaie in the blood of Christ they are as white as wooll and as snowe yet of their owne nature they are foule abhominable and detestable transgressions of Gods lawe so is concupiscence against the lawe thou shalt not lust as Augustine often confesseth therefore of it selfe sinne euen in the regenerate to whome it is remitted The similutude of a sickenes also whereunto Augustine doth often compare it sheweth the same For a sicknes if it be not healed either by strength of nature preuailing or by medicine doth either cause death or remaineth as long as life so concupiscence of itselfe would kill if the medicines of Christs redemption did not ouercome the malice of it and in the ende take awaie the disease from the rootes But for a cleerer proofe Master Charke alledgeth that Saint Augustine in an other place saith plainlie it is sinne You answer that he saith onelie of concupiscence in generall that it is sinne and not of concupiscence in the regenerate But that Saint Augustine speaketh of concupiscence in the regenerate it is manifest by this reason for that he saith concupiscence of the flesh against which the good spirit lustesh which is onelie in the regenerate As he him selfe saith in an other place by you quoted Non enim rectè cuiusquam spiritus concupisceret aduersue carnem suam nisi habitaret in illo spiritus Christi For no mans spirit should rightlie lust against his fiesh except the spirit of Christ did dwell in him But that concupiscence without consent is properlie no sinne you saie Saint Augustine prooneth by the wordes of Paule him-selfe who calleth it sinne in the chapter last remembred but that is false he only retaineth his vsuall acception of the word sinne for actualsin as Saint Iames doth whose termes of conception and bringing forth also he vseth yet he concludeth that concupiscence without consent is euill is to be chastised to be brideled to be fought against to be ouercome which prooueth sufficientlie that it is sinne though not actuall sinne yet properlie sinne from which we can not be deliuered but by the grace of Christ sinne of another kinde sinne in another degree called sinnne in the scripture and therefore without controuersie except we will trifle in vaine contention of termes and childish sophismes where the matter is plaine sinne in deede and properlie which of his owne nature deserueth death but that it is purged by the blood of Christ as all other sinnes of what sort or degree soeuer they be in those that are saued That Saint Augustine vseth other whiles the termes of veniallie and mortallie when he speaketh of sinning it can not defend your distinction wherebie you holde that there be some sinnes so smale as of their owne nasure they deserue not damnation contrarie to the scripture that saith generallie the reward of sinne is death Whereas Saint Augustine meaneth onelie degrees of sinnes whereof some are lesse some are hainous yet all deserue death For Saint Augustine must be vnderstood according to the scripture but the scripture must not be racked to agree with Saint Augustine Hitherto concerning the doctrine of the Iesuites that concupiscence in the regenerate without consent is not sinne Against this doctrine Gotuisus opposeth the wordes of our Sauiour Christ Mat. 5. 28. whosoeuer shall see a woman to lust after her he hath alreadie committed adulterie with her in his heart which text you confirme as you said before to be alledged ignorantlie and against him-selfe because here is a manifest consent of the heart expressed to make concupiscence adulterie And for that purpose you cite Saint Augustine and to all this you aske what sir William replyeth and answer your selfe Surelie nothing but maketh a long idle speake of praedicatum and subiectum as pertinent to the matter as Charing crosse to Billings gate If William Charkes
the next matter that you saie he prnoueth by tradition it is a question not so needefull to be decided although it may be prooued out of scripture that some of them which were Iohns disciples were baptized by him and so it is like were all the rest seeing Ierusalem and all Iurie and all the coast neere vnto Iordan were baptized by Iohn euen to the Pharisees and Saduces Publicans and souldiers it is not probable that the Apostles whoe before their calling by Christ were of honest and deuout conuersation did neglect that diuine institution which all men that would seeme to be religious made hast to receiue Furthermore you saie he prooueth by tradition the ceremonies of baptisme as deliuered by the Apostles lib. de fide Oper. cap. 9. The question is whether the Eunuch whome Philip baptized made such profession of his faith c. renouncing of the deuill as is required of them that are baptized when the scripture maketh mention onelie of a short confession that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God Where Saint Augustine sheweth that the holie ghost would haue vs to vnderstand that althinges were fulfilled in his baptisme which though they be not expressed in that scripture for breuities sake yet by order of the tradition we know that they are to be fulfilled Where tradition is not taken for that which is altogether beside the scripture but that which according to the scripture deliuereth what is to be obserued concerning the celebration of that sacrament which is the seale of mortification and regeneration That the Lordes supper should be receiued before other meates he thinketh of it as of other ceremontall matters that it came either from Apostolike tradition or from decrees of generall councell yet is it a thing not necessarie alwaies to be obserued for your selues doe housell sicke folkes at all times of the daie or night without respect whether they haue tasted any thing or no otherwise as a matter of order and decencie it is obserued of vs also to minister that sacrament before dinner and to them that be fasting if the case of necessity require not the contrarie Yet againe you saie he prooueth by tradition the exorcisme of such as should be baptized l. de nupt concu cap. 20. l. 6. cont Iulian. c. 2. But the truth is that by the ceremonie of exorcisme exsufflation and renunciation that is vsed in baptisme he goeth about to prooue that infantes before baptisme be in originall sinne and in the power of the deuill as is euident by both the places which prooue not exorcisme to haue beene receiued by tradition but by the end of that ceremonie vpon what beginning soeuer vsed in the Church at that time that infants are borne in originall sinne and subject to the power of Sathan before they be baptized The wordes of the former place are these In veritate itaque non in falsitate c. In truth therefore not in falsehoode the deuils power is exorcised in infants and they renounce him by the heartes and mouthes of their bearers because they cannot by their owne that beeing deliuered from the power of darke nes they may be translated into the kingdome of their Lorde Here is neuer a word of traditiō The second place hath these words Sedetsi nullaratione indagetur nullo sermone explicetur verum est tamen quòd antiquitas c. But although it originall sinne may be sought out by noe reason by no speach it may be expressed yet is it true that by true Catholike faith from auncient time is preached and beleeued thoroughout the wholl Church which would neither exorcise nor exsufflate the children of the faithfull if shee did not deliuer them from the power of darkenes and from the prince of death Here the auncient doctrine of original sinne is confirmed by the olde ceremonies of exorcisme and exsufflation which were vsed in baptisme to signifie that infants were by that sacrament deliuered from the guilt of originall sinne by which they were vnder the power of darkenes and death But that these ceremonies were Apostolike traditions he saith not or that they are of necessitie to 〈◊〉 vsed in baptisme when the one of them namelie 〈◊〉 is not vsed at this day for ought I know in the Popish forme of baptisme The Moscouites in place of it as it seemeth vse excreation For when the Godfathers and Godmothers answere that they renounce the deuil they spit out one the earth as it were in signe of detestation In Saint Augustines time they vsed to blow out In the last place you saie he prooueth by the same tradition that we must offer vp the sacrifice of the masse for the dead lib. de cura pro mort agenda cap. 1. 4. serm 32. de verbis Apostoli Of the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Augustine speaketh nothing but that praiers were offered for the dead at the celebration of the Lordes supper which he calleth sacrifice he saith it was by authoritie of the whol Church which was notable in that custome and that the wholl Church obserued it as deliuered from their fathers But seeing the elder Church for more then an hundred yeares after Christ had no such custome nor doctrine and especiallie seeing the same custome is against faith taught in the holie scriptures that the dead in the Lord are blessed that iudgement followeth immediatelie after death c. The authoritie of faith and trueth is to be preferred before the tradition and custome of men Neither is it to be thought to haue proceeded from the Apostles which is disprooued by the writings of the Apostles the onelie certaine witnes of the doctrine deliuered by them which is necessarie for vs to beeleeue and follow And therefore this new sir Censurer doth greatlie abuse the olde saints whome he would haue patrones of his vnwritten verities partely in charging them to referre vnto tradition many things that they doe not partlie in drawing to doctrine necessarie that which they speake of ceremonies mutable not the least in picking out one or two ouersightes to be pardoned vnder colour of them to maintaine all the grosse heresies of Poperie that are intollerable The fourteenth section Whether the Iesuites speake euil of scripture Art 6. intituled Nose of waxe IF you had ser downe Master Charkes replie betweene your Censure and your defense as reason would you should haue done for men to iudge indifferentlie betweene both you might haue spared more then two pages which you haue spent in charging him with a slaunder of the Iesuites where he reporteth that they saie the scripture is a nose of waxe when they saie it is as a nose of waxe For no reasonable man can make any other sense of those wordes the scripture is a nose of waxe but euen the same that you confesse to be the saying of the Iesuites the scripture is as a nose of waxe as Master Charke telleth you And moreouer that Paiua saith the fathers
tyrannical while you inforce men to confesse their secret sinnes to a popish Priest where of there is no commaundement in the holie scriptures and partlie it is an encouragement vnto securitie a pampering in sinne while the fraile and foolish man is persuaded that by the heard confession absolution receiued of the Priest he is cleerelie discharged of his sinnes and may be toti es quoties with a litle pretie penance enioyned him for satisfaction But it is a firme principle you saie that in all formes of penance the penitent had remission of his sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes A heauie case where the Priestes were straight laced and would retaine sinnes where God was readie to forgiue What is this els but to restraine the mercie of God to the ministerie of vnskilfull men At what howre so euer the sinner doth truelie repent the Lord remitteth his sinnes But man can not allwaies see or by outward tokens iudge of true and inward repentance Therefore it is a firme principle that God often times forgaue sinnes to the penitent otherwise then by the ministerie of the Prieste Men maie erre in exercising outward discipline but Gods remission is not staied vpon mans error Where you conclude that as the diuerse vse of baptisme hindreth not but that in substance it is the same so the sacrament of penance notwithstanding the diuers formes and manners in which it hath or is now vsed Your comparison is nought For baptisme is a sacrament of Christes institution your popish penance can neuer be prooued to be a sacrament Therfore your argument à paribus is of no force Whether the Church did well to restraine baptisme to certaine solemne feastes I will not here dispute That remission of sinnes hath beene ioyned often both in the law of nature and Moses to some externall ceremonies and sacrifices whereof in the olde law Priestes were appointed ministers THE NINTH CHAP. LEt no man vpon consideration of these thinges either reprehend or maruatle at the counsel and ordinance of god that he being hable to gouerne his creatures and amend or correct pardon or punish euerie mans misdeedes by him-selfe without all helpe and seruice of anie other his subiect natures that it pleaseth his wisdome for all that to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministerie in sundrie sacramentes In sober consideration of these thinges mans reason maie well be satisfied if he can conceiue that it is the honour and estimation of our kinde with almightie God our maker that he gouerneth not our affaires onelie by him selfe in his owne person but also that we be ruled and led in the waies of Gods will by one an other that the maiestie of God which most appeareth in regiment and in remitting of sinnes in correcting of 〈◊〉 and iudgement might be cleerelie seene in our kinde amongst our selues to our comfort and Gods no disgracing nor dishonour at all And therefore Saint Augustine saith of the like doubt of some in his daies which would not be taught by man but by Gods owne spirit Abiecta esset humana conditio si per homines hominibus verbum suum Deus ministrare nolle videretur Quomodo enim verum esset quod dictum est Templum enim Dei sanctum est quod estis vos si de humano templo Deus responsa non redderet Mans state were too base if God would not that his word should be ministred by one man to another For how should this truelie be spoken the temple of God is holie the which temple you are if God gaue not answers by mans temple This is one great respect surelie especialle since the second person in Trinitie tooke vpon him our nature by whome the woorthines of mankinde is much increased and more fit then euer before to serue ech other as in the workes that be diuine and properlie by nature belonging to God himselfe An other respect why we should by externall sacraments and mans ministerie receiue grace and remission of sinnes is the singular respect had by God of our infirmitie as well of minde as bodie For the minde requireth in her assured deseruing of damnation some externall token by which she maie haue good cause to hope of mercie and grace For where I know and assure myselfe that originall sinne is remitted by baptisme when I haue once receiued the same then I am in no further doubt of my selfe nor anie damnation for that sinne which by the promis of God I haue learned shall be washed awaie thereby as by an externall instrument in which he conueigheth that benefit to my soule if my soule by indisposition and unaptnes do not hinder the assured fruit thereof So where after Baptisme mans life is often defiled by greeuons sinnes and God highlie displeased therefore what an infinite treaskre it is and how great a comfort to haue an assured helpe therof wrought so by mans ministery in a visible action that I maie know sauing for mine owne lack of connenient disposition my sinnes to be forgiuen and Gods mercie and fauour to be obteined againe We maie conceiue easily what a passing comfort it was to the parties that heard sensiblie by the outward wordes of Christes owne mouth thy sinnes be forgiuen thee The said persons beleeuing in Christ and lamenting for their sinnes past might haue had some hope of remission by Christ though he had said no such thing vnto them yet he that perceiueth not what comfort of conscience what inward ioy of minde what reioysing of the spirit they must needes haue that had Christes testimonie and blessing in plaine termes for the same purpose he seeth nothing at all FVLKE That God hath vsed in all ages to testifie and assure men of his grace and mercie to the forgiuenes of their sinnes by outward signes and sacraments and that for diuerse good causes we are allwaies readie to acknowledge But that it pleaseth his wisdome as you saie to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministery in sundry sacraments we do vtterlie denie For that were to tie the grace of God to the outward sacraments which is most free to worke either with them or without them The penitent publicane an example of persons that seeke iustification had his sinnes forgiuen him by the onelie grace and mercie of God taken holde of by faith without al external orders ioyned to mans ministerie in any sacrament For if we acknowledge our sins he is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes And Iesus Christ is our aduocate with the father to obtaine remission of sinnes And if anie man shal see his brother sinne a sinne not to death he shall ask he will giue life vnto him that sinneth not vnto death By all which testimonies and an hundreth more that are euery where to
be found in the scripture it is most cleere that God forgiueth our sinnes otherwise then by externall orders or sacramets Againe the sacrament of Baptisme is a seale and assurance vnto vs of the forgiuenes of our sinnes not onely such as are com mitted before baptisme receiued but euen vnto our liues end whensoeuer we are truelie penitent for the same Also the sacrament of the Lords supper in which we are spirituallie fed with the bodie of Christ which was giuen for vs and with his blood which was shed for the remission of our sinnes is a sure pledge token and seale of the remission of our sinnes committed after baptisme that we neede not the Popish sacrament of pennance for the same ALLEN As for my selfe good Christian Reader I am not so free from sinne wo is me therefore nor so void of mans affection but as often I heare in the sacrament of penance the Priest who to me then is Christ in full power of pardoning saying the wordes of absolution ouer me me think truelie I heare the sweete voice of Christ saying with authoritie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee Whereof no mortallman shall euer forbid me to take hope and singular trust of remission of sinnes with the passing comfort that thereon ensueth All these that are without Christes folde seeke not to heare his voice for all their load of sinne from the heauenlie and intire ioy whereof they be as farre as from the conceiuing of of the felicitie to come in heauen it selfe But let them assure themselues that Christ writeth with his holie finger all their sinnes though to Christ they will not now confesse them whiles they refuse the power ofremission that he both had aud hath in earth to the worldes end without which outward solemne act of penance man should either dispaire of Gods mercie and liue in feare intollerable of euerlasting perishing which often fall to timerous consciences or els which is now of daies more common men would liue in such passing presumption and vaine securitie of heauen that they should neuer till the very last breath of their euill time either be sorie for sinne or seke to do any good worke at al. This time shall testifie with me herein and the verie diuersitie that is betweene these our corrupt conditions and the holy studies and endeauours of our forefathers shalltestifie but the daies that yet are to come must need most feele the smart of it when these that now haue the direction of other mens steppes shall be gone by whome for olde discipline wherein they were brought vp Some signes and remnantes of vertue be continued in the world For when they be spent and our yonkers that neuer heard of the Churches discipline but haue had their full swinge in sinne with the instruction of a most wanton doctrine shall be the principall of the people if this diuision so long continue which God forbid into what terms shal trueth and vertue be then brought Me think I see before hand the lamentable state of things and in a manner beholde the fruit of our onelie faith of this bolde presumption of Gods mercie of remouing the discipline of penance of refusing the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes Euil are we now but a thousand partes worsse shal they be then which in long nouseling in this naughtie learning of libertie shall be in perpetuall wo and haue no feele nor sense thereof And all this must needs follow vpon the lack of these outward acts external waies of pardoning punishing offences and intended either for mans present comfort and solace or els to keepe in awe the wantons of the world by the rodde of outward discipline which in the Church hath euer especiallie beene obserued in the sacrament of penance FVLKE When we heare the authorized embassadours and messengers of reconciliation pronounce in the name of Christ according to the scriptures and promises of God that our sinnes are forgiuen vs whensoeuer we be hartilie sorie truely penitent for the same we haue sufficient warrant out of Gods word to assure our selues of remission of them with inestimable ioy comfort of conscience But for the sacrament of penance or the Priest to be Christ vnto vs in fullpower of pardoning or to haue anie wordes of absolution said ouer vs because we haue no ground in Gods word whatsoeuer imaginarie pleasure you haue therein we finde nothing that is of force to staie a weake conscience to comfort a troubled spirit or to heale a broken heart To confesse our sinnes to Christ who onelie knoweth whether our repentance be vnfained God forbid that we should refuse But to confesse them to a Popish Priest or anie lawfull minister if they be secret there is no law or commaundement of God to require vs. If our conscience be not satisfied about anie offence that we haue committed how we should declare our vnfained conuersion or repentance we maie vse the aduise of the Godlie and learned pastor who is able out of the word of god toresolue our doubts and quiet our conscience That the want of Popish pennance will driue all men either to desperation or securitie and presumption it is affirmed without anie proofe God be praised experience cryeth out of the contrarie side But rather the doctrine of poperie concerning the pretensed sacrament of penance is manifest occasion of securitie in them that are carnallie minded of desperation in them that haue a tender conscience For the one thinketh he hath an easy remedy for his sinnes to discharge them into a priestes eare the other considering the impossibilitie of confession and vnsufficiency of the satisfaction that be parts of this counterfet sacrament can finde smal comfort in the priests absolution Your blasphemous rayling at the doctrine of God iustifying by faith onely which you cal the instruction of a most wanton doctrine and the naughtie learning of libertie is sufficiently confuted by the examples of many thousands of Gods Saints who acknowledging that they are iustified in the sight of God by faith onelie in the merites of Christ are more fruitfull in good workes then all the popish hypocrites in the world Where you terme your popish penance to be the onely ordinance of god for remission of our mortall sinnes you vtter not onelie a grosse contradiction of the trueth taught in the holie scriptures but also directlie contrarie to the doctrine of all Papists and euen of your selfe For what saie you M. Allen were you wel aduised when you said that penance is the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortal sins If it be as you saie then the sacrifice of the masse is not the ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes as al Papists beside you do holde and mantaine and extreame vnction wherof you haue latelie affir med the contrarie is not the ordinance of God for the remission of our mortall sinnes The discipline of the Church wherby wantons are kept in
awe is not excluded by remoouing the sacrament of penance which is neither the discipline of the Church nor the power of re mission of sins graunted to the ministers of the Church ALLEN It were too teadious further to declare how these externall meanes of working inward grace and remission of sinnes be necessarie for the outward man which is sometimes refreshed otherwhiles bridled by things answerable as well outwardlie to the bodie as inwardlie to the minde It is needlesse also to treat at large how it is necessarie for the one and visible common wealth of Christes Church to agree together in all pointes thereof and be notoriouslie knowne from all other sectes and sortes of peoples that do not professe Christes name by the outward practize of all holie functions by which God hath promised to giue grace remission and sanctification to all his faithfull subiects All these considerations with many the like maie serue and satisfie the quiet peaceable children of Christes Church that haue learned to rest in Christes ordinance though the causes thereof be not to them opened As for other that are euer doubting and neuer settelledin their faith that alwaies be learning and yet neuer attaine to knowledge that had rather vnderstand much then beleeue a litle such fellowes I must not so much instruct as by the scriptures and examples of all ages controlle and confound if I maie Let them therefore be charged that God hath not onelie vsed from the creation of man to bring vp al people that serue him in some especiall waies of outward worshipping but hath also these manie worlds deliuered man from originall and actuall sinnes by externall sacraments and sacrifices not without the priestes especiall procurement and ministerie therein What did circumcision instituted by God in the law of nature commaunded to Abraham and his seede and continued so many ages euen till Christes law tooke place Did it not after a sorte remit sinnes Was it anie other thing but an externall worke in the face of the world Was it ministred by man Did it derogate anie thing to the honour of God which by himselfe for his owne glorie and namesake was ordeined And afterward in the law of Moses which did draw neere vnto Christian vsages by manie actions of sacrifices and solemne rites instituted purposelie to represent foreshew the state of our present Church there we haue plaine proofe of certaine outward orders instituted for procuring remission and pardon of sins not without especiall mention of the priestes ministerie in euerie of the said actions Whereof Saint Paul speaketh to the Hebrewes in these wordes Omnia penè in sanguine mundari ac sine sanguinis effusione non esse remissionem That all things were in a manner clensed by blood and that no remission could be had without blood For so in the 17. of Leuiticus they were charged to absteine from drinking of blood because sanguis animalium propiaculo est the blood of beastes stood for an expiation and cleaning of sinnes And therefore amongst the diuers orders of sacrifice mentioned in the said booke of their ceremonies there be diuers expresse waies by sacrifice to purge mens sinnes some for the Priests sinnes other for the Princes and the third for the common peoples offences And one wait for their sinnes committed of ignorance an other for crimes wittinglie done Finallie some for thoughtes and other some for euill deedes with manie mo diuersities as you maie see in the said booke In all which it is euer expressed that the Priest is not onelie the minister in the said sacrifice as needes must be but also with offering of the said oblations for sinne that he must make praier especiallie for the offenders and euerie of them seuerallie that God maie pardon them of that sinne for which they offer their sacrifice For allwaies after the forme and manner of offering be prescribed according to the diuersitie of the peoples offences it is added Rogabitque pro eo sacerdos pro peccato eius dimittetur ei And the Priest shal pray for him and for his sinne and it shall be forgiuen him And againe Agat poenitentiam pro peccato offerat de gregibus agnam siue capram orabitque pro ea sacerdos pro peccatis eius Let the soule do penance and offer a kidde of the flock or an ewe lambe and so the priest shall praie for that soule and the sinnes thereof FVLKE That the ministery of man in al ages of the Church and externall sacraments haue beene instituted of God as well for the exercise os men in his worship as for the assurance of remission of their sinnes it is euermore confessed of vs and that now also the like be ordained since the comming of Christ in the flesh Wher fore your long discourse to prooue that we neuer denied is vaine except you meane it against the Anabaptistes Libertines Swinkfeldians and such other condemned heretikes That in all the sacrifices of the law that were appointed for sinne the priest is ordeined the minister not onelie to offer the sacrifice but also by praier to obteine remission of sinnes it must be referred vnto the onelie high Priest whereof the Iewish Priesthood sacrifices aultars c. were sacramentall figures and shadowes And therefore by that the Priests had then to do according to the law you do vnfitlie gather that the like is to be donne by Priests vnder the Gospell For that Iewish priesthood is wholie translated vnto our sauiour Christ who hath it perpetual and without anie passing from him to others The ministerie of the Gospel hath no sacrifices to offer for sinnes but to preach the onelie sacrifice of Christs death and the propitiation of our sinne by him and thereof to assure our infirmitie more plentifullie to deliuer vnto vs the seales of our iustification by faith instituted by God the sacraments of baptisme and the Lordes supper ALLEN All which doth not onelie couuince that Gods will was that remission of sinnes should be had by externall sacrifices penance and oblation and that not otherwise but by the priests mediationn but also that there was an order euen then often in thé olde law that man should vtter his sinnes with the greuousnes thereof and circumstances that according to the difference of the faultes the diuersitie of sacrifices and expiation might be vsed and that the priest seuerallie might praie for the remission thereof In all which doing I will not now dispute whether a carnall Iew that then had no further respect but to the present obseruation of those commaunded Ceremonies and sacrifices did obtaine therby remission of sins by which the soule is reconciled to God or els onelie a freedome from some temporal punishment due to the same by law amongst the people or otherwise by Gods appointment but moste sure it is that the spirituall sorte which from those sacrifices did not separate but include Christs blood in respect whereof all
such an impudent brag set vpon so false a matter wherein he seeth neither Christs institution by his word nor the example of antiquitie by anie credible report nor practise of any Christian people by any necessary ground nor 〈◊〉 by learned witnes nor reason by necessarie conclusions to vphold and maintaine it let him schoole his conscience according to the holie scriptures and nothing be mooued with the vaine glosing of such shameles boasters ALLEN For if vpon consideration of this practise so approoued by all meanes possible he can not charge him selfe with obedience to the trueth and the exercise of that in his lise and workes which he seeth to be moste sure and certaine as well by the Churches vsage as Gods owne writing and will moe words will not weigh with him nor the persuasion of man shall euer much mooue him to that which the continuall terrour of conscience alwaies acknowledging that truth in minde the practise wherof in outward fact he abhorreth can not effectualliie force him vnto Hard it seemeth I knowe to the wordlinges and to the weake and so hard that neuer man could haue brought it into the Church much lesse to haue continued it so long if it had not proceeded from the precept of Christes owne mouth to open the whole heart and minde to man And it can not but be ioyned with some naturall bashfullnes in this our frailtie to vtter that to an other which in it selfe of what sort of sinne so euer it be is moste filthie and lothsome But knowing and feeling vndoubtedlie that the continuall close keeping thereof in the court of our conscience is much more great and greeuose torment and therwith concerning Christes ordinance to be such that no consideration of our imbecillitle nor contrarie liking of our phantasie maie or ought to withdrawe vs from that thing which for vs all is accounttd moste conuenient and necessarie let vs neuer by our disobedient willes striue against Gods wisedome FVLKE When you can shewe Gods owne writing and will out of the same that popish shriftis so necessarie all good consciences will runne as faste vnto it as now they despise and abhorre it Such confession as the holie writinges of God doe require all Christians wil be readie to make But that confession of all our mortall sinnes as you tearme them is of necessitie to be made to any man we finde no scripture that doth charge our conscience with it And where you saie that no earthly power could haue established or begun any such burthenous thing as shrift is I agree with you yet it followeth not that the force of Christes institution hath driuen the worlde thereunto For the subtiltie of the Deuill hath more preuailed to deceiue the mindes of ignorant men then any earthlie power against knowledge could haue preuailed Yea God himselfe hath sent the efficacy of error into the worlde that Antichrist then whose tiranie nothing is more burthenous might preuaile to the deceiuing of the reprobate for punishment of their 〈◊〉 which haue not embraced the knowledge of the trueth to their saluation that they might beleeue lies to their condemnation Wherefore let no man maruell that Antichrist hath laied so many so heauie and intollerable burthens vpon mens consciences which no earthlie power could bring to passe for his comming is foreshewed to be according to the effectuall workeing of Satan in all power and signes and wonders of lies and in all deceitfullnes of vnrighteousnes in them that perish Neither let any man be blinded with this foolish Sophistrie and inconsequence of Allen Neuer any earthlie power could haue established or begunne anie such burthenous thing as Popish shrift is therefore it hath the force of Christes constitution and ordinances whereof there can no worde be brought out of the hol e scriptures ALLEN If the hurthen therefore of confession seeme to any man intollerable as in deede it is not but verie pleasant to all such as haue tasted how sweete Christ is let him ease it with earnest consideration that it is exceeding commodious to breake the pride of mans heart and to make him know himselfe And if that any burthen of shamefastenesse appeare in the vttering of his sinnes he may learne to take it gladlie as some worthie paine for his offences and some peece of recompence and satistisfaction for the same It pleased God at the first fall of our fathers to ioyne shame and confusion to sinne by which they were bashefull at the voice of God and of their owne nakednes Seeing that of his infinit wisedome it pleased him to make it the first punishment for sinne and to laie it vpon his owne sonnes moste innocent person in his contemptible death and manifolde rebukes suffered for our sinnes and sakes let vs not disdaine to beare some portion thereof in this sacrament of confession for the release of our sinnes That shamefastenes so much abhorred and so much respected shall often preserue man from further offending whereof he knoweth after he must againe so soone before God and his minister be rebuked FVLKE To all wise and Godlie men the burthen of Popish confession seemeth not onely intollerable but also impossible But to foolish hypocrites that would gladlie fall to a composition for their sinnes it seemeth easie enough especiallie since euerie man for a litle monie may choose his confessour according to his owne conceite into whose lappe he may vomit out the burthen of his seared conscience and be assured of absolution toties quoties Neither is pride much abated nor shame greatly regarded where one simple obnoxius person is made priuie of a mans faulte who also as it is holden is bounde to conceale the same for euer Neither were all the shame of the worlde sufficient to make satisfaction for the least of our sinnes which deserue eternall confusion paines for which the sonne of God and none but he was able to satisfie by temporall paine and shame much lesse the shame of confession before one priest and he commonlie an ignorant contemptible asse may be any peece of recompence and satisfaction for all our sinnes confessed to him Iesus Christ the righteous is the propitiation for our sinnes and his bloode purgeth vs from all our sinnes and therfore your Popish confession with this opinion of some peece of recompence satisfaction for our sinnes is iustlie abhorred of all true Christians who know that what peece soeuer of recompence or satisfaction for sinnes be ascribed to any other thing so much is detracted from the glorie of Christes redemption and the inestimable price of his bloode As for the preferuatiue from sinne that you imagine shrift should be is but a foolish fantasie for he that neuer feareth not shamerh to fall so often in the sight of the righteous God will haue but a small regarde to bewraie the same to sinnefull man ALLEN But what should we talke of sosmall a let where the comfort of opening our sores woundes to
profitable other whiles to be deceites but yet inuented for holie purposes now by avouching they could not stand with Gods iustice if they shoulde remitte anie part of the appointed paine for sinnes and else when that there was no paine for remitted sinnes at all whereupon the indulgences should not be needfull but vaine and friuolous with such other inconstant stammering as lightlie is common to them that seeke to vp hold falshood against their owne skill and consciences But his followers as well of the Protestants as Zuinglians and Caluinistes to make the waie of wickednes more easie and plaine haue boldlie denied all penance and temporall paine for sinne remitted whether it be by Christs or the Churches enioyning haue taken awaie Purgatorie haue bereued Priesthood of all power and the Church of all her treasure of Christes copious and abundant redemption Whereupon I cannot otherwise iudge but that doctrine which else can not be refelled but by the waste of so manie vndoubted articles should stande exceeding fast and be grounded moste surelie vpon all these foresaide truthes without the destruction whereof it can not be of anie force ouerturned FVLKE As no man would thinke any such matter if you had not put it in their heades so no wise men can thinke otherwise of Pardons then he did before you tooke in hande their defence sauing that all reasonable men may thinke them so much the worsse because you are able to defend them no better And if all the principles of popery as you saie be contained in the matter of pardons as in a summe or abridgment the children of God maie behold the prouidence of god more clearelie in setting Luther first against them at such time as he knewe no such matter neither had anie purpose but to disswade the moste grosse abuses and palpable impostures which were that time mantained about them alowing the pardons still as good and lawful But for the mantainers of this conclusion you say he and his haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne c. Naie they haue established and restored the true vse of repentance and shewed that the death of Christ is the onelie satisfaction for sinnes the discipline of the Church from a batbarous antichristian tyrannie they haue reduced within the limmites of the scriptures and the practize of the primatiue and pureit age of the Church the chastising that God vseth for correction of his children they haue taught out of the scriptures how it is to be taken patientlie as an admonition for amendement not an amends for our misdoing which sauoreth as much of pride as their doctrine doth of humility The secrets of the next world not reueiled in the scriptures they leaue vntil the time of the general reuelation of al secrets and therfore they presume not to allow purgatorie paines for the clensing of those sinnes which the scripture teacheth to be purged by the bloode of Christ in whome all our sinnes are thorowlie punished to the full satisfaction of the iustice and wisedome of God They haue left to the saints al their merits which is nothing els but the grace of God sufficient for their saluation not placing the workes of saints in the place of Christes passion which is onelie of it selfe soueraigne and satisfactorie for all men The mysticall bodie of Christ and the holie cōmunion of saints they beleeue to receiue all vertue and power of life from Christ the head and euery member to exercise that office which by his grace is assigned vnto it therefore they haue done no iniurie to Christ his Church his saints sacraments or his holy Religion but their dutie in purging the doctrine ofChrist his Church his saints sacraments and Religion from error falsehood heresie and blasphemie You tell the reader that you doe not riot in wordes to ouerrunne your aduersarie but if he be wise he will remēber that a crafty orator doth sonest deceiue when he pretendeth moste plainenes What Luther thought and taught at the first of pardons his writings are extant in print to declare in which he confesseth that he did fight in the darke yet it pleased God by the importunitie of his aduersaries to sturre him vp to search the trueth out of the holie scriptures Neither hath Zuinglius or Caluine or anie of the Protestants taught otherwise of repentance satisfaction power of priesthood or the tresure of the Church then Luther did after God had reueiled the trueth vnto him and he openlie preached the same Seeing therefore the matter of pardons cannot stand but vpon the blasphemous heresies which the popish antichristian Church doth teach against the glorie of the onelie redemption of Iesus Christ our onelie and whole sauiour and reedemer it must needs be one of those pestilent poisons which Sathan after his loosing out of the bottomeles pit hath powred forth into the world the defacing of the glorie of Christ and the destruction of manie ignorant soules ALLEN Therefore least any man by making smaller accompt of so litle a braunch of the Churches faith then he should do fall further vnto the mistrusting of other many of knowen importance I thought it good to debate the question of Indulgences which be now commonly called the Popes Pardons though not onely he but also other Prelates of Christendome haue their seuerall right eche one according to the measure of the Churches graunt and his iurisdiction therein In which matter because most men of smaler trauail haue erred rather by misconstruing the case mistaking the state of the cause then for any lacke of sufficient proofe of the matter after it were wel vnderstanded I will studie first clearly to open the meaning of that whereon we stande and then to go through the whole question with as much light and breuitie as I can tempering my selfe as much as I maie from all such 〈◊〉 as the depth of so grounded a conclusion and the learned disputation of Schoolmen might driue me vnto Wherein I am content rather to followe the desire and contentation of the reader then to satisfie my owne appetite which I feele in my selfe to be somewhat more greedie of matter sometimes then the common people whome I studie moste to helpe can well beare and yet if they thinke it anie vantage to knowe trueth and the necessarie Doctrine of their faith they must learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause and further I shall not charge them FVLKE You come to late after the vanitie treacherie and blasphemie of pardons hath beene so long set abroad and knowen to the world and bringing no better stuffe then you do to suppose that you shal be able to restore pardons into the auncient credit they had within these foure score yeares euen with the simplest papist in Europe You would make the matter more plausible by communicating the right of pardons to all prelates of christendome as wel as to the Pope whereas indeed your popish Church keeping no proportion aloweth none
before they be instructed in Christian beliefe shal they be baptized If children naturall fooles and such as can not examine themselues notorious offenders that haue giuen no signes of repentance men knowen to be in malice c. shal present thēselues to the Lords table must they without al iudgement or discretiō be accepted or repulsed By this therefore it appeereth that there is nothing more iudiciall in receiuing of sinners to repentance if that were a sacrament then in the only true sacraments of baptisme and the Lords supper Wherefore there is no reason that the Pope should restraine anie man of that power which you confesse he hath by Christes graunt ouer all persons of his charge by exempting anie of them or giuing them libertie to chuse their gostlie Father according to their owne appetite and much lesse that he should reserue vnto him selfe the absolution from the greatest sinnes the power whereof was graunted by Christ to euerie Priest as you confesse ouer his owne parishioners for which reseruation you bring not so much as the shadow of anie reason to shroud him from the the note of Antichristian tiranie ALLEN The Popes Pardons also maie wellreach so farre as to take awaie veniall and dailie infirmites which be of their nature punishable but by some temporall paine and correction because they be remissible manie waies out of the sacrament both here in this life and in the next For the merites of Christ maie be applied sufficientlie to the offenders in such light manner of trespaces without the especiall grace of a sacrament as by saying our Lordes praier saieth Saint Augustine and by almese and by the holie Sacrament of the aultar either receiued or deuoutlie adored by sacrifice now of the holie Masse much more then in olde time in the sacrifices of the lawe and by the holie peace or blessinges of Christ and his Apostles and Bishoppes after them and by their Pardons Therefore to him that is free from greeuous sinnes or pardoned of the same all these thinges shal be commodious towards the remission of his lesser infirmities but if he be in state of damnation and out of Gods fauour which grace must be procured onelie by the Sacraments of Baptisme or penance he can not obtaine anie Pardon at the popes hands neither aliue nor dead nor none was euer meant vnto him FVLKE Seeing veniall sinnes maie so easilie be pardoned as you doe shewe and by so manie meanes you make great fooles of all them that trauell to Rome for a plenarie Pardon of Iubelie or that will paie one halfepenie for anie at home when without trauell without expences without daunger he maie so lightlie obtaine forgiuenes of them But howsoeuer you plaie and blear mens eies with veniall sinnes the worde of trueth saieth that euerlasting death is the reward of sinne if it be not pardoned through the merites of Christes death applied to vs by faith The grace of God is all one whether it be testified by his 〈◊〉 or by a sacrament But you would haue it seene that Saint Augustine is an author of this distinction of veniall and mortall sinnes and sheweth these meanes by which veniall sinnes maie be wiped awaie without the grace of a Sacrament but you peruert his wordes farre from his meaning For his purpose is to shewe that a man cannot be purged from his greeuose sinnes by almes except he be heartelie penitent and carefull neuer to commit them againe but of smaller sinnes without the which a man can not lead his life he cannot determine that he will forsake them but must continuallie craue Pardon for them and auoide them as much as he can His wordes are these Sanè cauendum ne quisquam existimet infanda illa crimina qualia qui agunt regnum Dei non possidebunt quotidiè perpetranda eleemosynis quotidiè redimenda In melius quippe est vita mutanda per eleemosinas de peccatis praeteritis est propitiandus Deus non ad hoc emendus quodam modo vt ea semper liceat impunè committere Nemini enim dedit laxamentum peccandi quamuis miserando deleatiam facta peccata si non satisfactio congrua negligatur De quotidianis autem breuibus leuibusque peccatis sine quibus haec vita non ducitur quotidiana oratio fidelium satis facit Eorum est enim dicere Pater noster qui es in coelis Quiiam patri tali regenerati sunt ex aqua Spiritu Sancto Delet omninò haec oratio minima quotidiana peccata Delet illa à quibus vita fidelium sceleratè etiam gesta sed poenitendo in melius mutata discedit Si quemadmodum veraciter dicitur Demitte nobis debita nostra quoniam non desunt quae dimittantur ita veraciter dicatur sicut nos dimittimus debitorib nostris id est fiat quod dicitur quia ipsa eleemosyna est veniam petenti homini ignoscere Suerlie we must take heede lest anie man thinke those wicked crimer which they that committe them shall not possesse the kingdome of God are dailie to be committed and dailie to be redeemed by almes For the life must be changed into better and God is to be intreated through almese for sinnes past he is not to be bought after asort for this end that it maie be lawfull to commit them alwais without punishment For he hath giuen to no man licence of sinning although by his mercie he doe wipe awaie sinnes alreadie committed if meet satisfaction be not neglected But for daily short and light sins without which this life is not ledde the daily praier of the faithfull doth make satisfaction For it pertaineth to them to saie Our Father which art in heauen which are alreadie regenerat to such a father by water and the holie Ghost For this praier doth altogether wipe awaie these least and dailie sinnes It wipeth awaie also those from which the life of the faithfull hauing beene wickedlie passed but by repentance being changed into better doth depart if as it is trulie saied forgiue vs our debtes because there want not dets to be forgiuē euen so it may be truly said as we also do forgiue our debters that is to saie if that be done which is spoken For that is also almes to giue pardon to a man which desireth it First of receiuing the Sacrament of the altar or adoring the same of the sacrifice of the Masse of the Bishops blessing of their pardons here is no mention Secondly he sheweth that great crimes are pardoned also by saying the Lordes praier if changeing of life do followe by which it is manifest that by satisfaction he meaneth the fruites of repentance which as the offences are greater or lesser so it is meete they be shewed accordinglie in small offences contrition of heart and humble acknowledging of them before God is sufficient in great offences the change of life into better must be manifest euen to the Church and the sinnes repented
had expresselie forgiuen him by the warrant of the Prophet Nathan his greeuous sinnes Consider the case of all Gods elect people how sharpelie they were visited for sinne after it was in them pardoned Marke whether Marie Moises his sister was not punished and separated seuen daies as it were for penance after her brethren had procured her pardon at Gods handes Thus hath God of respect not onelie to mercie but also partlie to iustice so alwaies pardoned that he had consideration of iudgement and righteousnes Now whome should the Church follow in remitting of sinnes but him by whofe power and warrant she doth remit sinnes FVLKE We see that god did chastise the Prophet Dauid and his posterititie with a rodde of man and with a fatherlie correction but his mercie and louing kindnes he neuer tooke from them Neither punished them to satisfie his iustice for their sinne remitted but to make them and other by their example more carefull not to commit sinne in time to come The case of Gods elect people was somewhat otherwise Exod. 32. where although he receiued to mercie the wholl people that they should not be destroied from the face of the earth yet he might of his iustice punish a number of particular persons that were moste rebellious and authors of the defection and Idolatrie Marie the sister of Moses was also punished of God first to humble her and bring her to repentance and that punishment was continued on her for a few daies partlie to exercise her in earnest and hartie repentance partlie to admonish the people by her example to beware of murmuring against Gods ministers their lawfull magistrates not in respect of anie satisfaction of Gods iustice which can receiue none but a ful sufficient satisfaction in his beloued sonne Iesus Christ. Wherefore if the Church will follow God in remission of sinnes she must remit them freelie as God doth in Iesus Christ forgiue vs for so Saint Paull meaneth that men should forgiue one another their trespasses and not to remit the fault and retaine the paine except it be in case where men are appointed by God to execute paines as the Magistrates are or to practize discipline as the Church is in which case the Church may not think to satisfy Gods iustice but to seek reformation of the offender and to prouide for the example of others ALLEN Seeing God then him-selfe after he hath by his owne means and absolute power pardoned mans faultes and discharged him of the sentence of death and damnation had yet enioyned penance as when he said to Adam In the sweate of thy browes thou shalt prouide for thy liuing And to Eue. Thou shalt in paine bring forth thy Children And to them both that they should die the temporall death though they might escape by his mercie euerlasting miserie seeing this we neede not to doubt but temporall punishment often remaineth after the sinnes be remitted and that the Church of God doth imitate moste conuenientlie the saied mercie enioyned with iustice in all her most righteous practize of pardoning and punishing sinne in Christes behalfe by whose iurisdiction she herein holdeth But for the further proofe of the matter I haue saide much in the defense of Purgatotie and this question properlie of Purgatotie and this question properlie perteineth to 〈◊〉 place FVLKE That temporall punishment is laied vpon men often times although their sinnes be remitted it is no question but whether such punishment be a satisfaction to the iustice of God or a fatherlie discipline of his mercie that is the matter in controuersie The Church therefore in exercising the discipline of God vpon offendours may and ought to imitate the example of god but then shee must beware of two things the one that she laie no other burthen of punishment vpon the offendours then the worde of God will warrant therefore penance is not arbitrarie as the Canonists doe saie but to be directed by the worde of God Secondlie shee must take heede that shee release no more punishment then shee is able to laie on And therefore shee must be assured by the worde of God whether shee can eioyne penance to be suffered in Purgatorie before shee take vpon her to remit any such punishment touching which matter as you haue saied more in the defence of Purgatorie so haue I answered sufficientlie to the ouerthrow of Purgatorie and all that dependeth thereupon That Christ gaue by his expresse worde authoritie to the pastours of Gods Church to binde and loose not onely the sinnes themselues but also the temporall paine or penance remaining THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN BVt now for the iurisdiction that Gods Church hath in releasing the same punishment which remaineth after the fault be forgiuen it standeth no doubt vpon that high commission which Christ receiued of his Father and did communicate moste amplie to the Apostles and by then to all Bishops for euer For the father did not onelie honour Christ his sonne according to his humanity with the power of priesthoode or with other soueraignitic for the institutious of sacraments or such like but with all regiment of that bodie whereof he is the heads as he is man By which keye of iurisdiction he corrected sinners with great Maiestie and pardoned them at his pleasure not onelie of sinne and euerlasting paine where the penitencie of the partie did so require but also of such correction as the law had prescribed for sinne or Gods iustice had enioyned for the same FVLKE That the Church hath any iurisdiction in releasing that punishment which remaineth after the faulte for giuen for a satisfaction of Gods iustice it hath not hetherto beene prooued nor euer shall be prooued by authoritie of the holie scriptures which teach the contrarie that Christ alone hath by his one sacrifice made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And therefore it is vnreasonable to seeke whereupon it standeth For neither did Christ receiue any such commission in his humanitie neither did he deliuer ouer any such iurisdiction vnto his Apostles to release temporall punishment due to Gods iustice vnsatisfied by his death and passion For by one oblation once offered by his eternall spirit he made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And the power of Priesthoode and soueraigne authoritie to institute sacraments and to be head of his Church he receiued not as man onelie but as our mediatour God and man The Lorde said vnto my Lorde saith Dauid sit thou on my right hand Thou art a Priest for euer c. Which offices authorities can not beseparated from his diuinity without Nestorian impiety Christ is head of his Church a Priest for euer as he is Dauids Lord but as he is Dauids Lord he is not onelie his sonne but his God therefore he is heade of his Church and a priest after the order of Melchisedeeh not as he is man onelie but as he is God man neither did he pardon any
not to recompence Gods iustice but to make satisfaction to the Church which is not to graunt remission in those cases but vpon good hope of the parties true conuersion and inwarde and vnfained repentance But as Augustine speaketh here of open satisfaction not to Gods iustice but to the Churches iudgement so you haue his authority or as good for secret satisfactiō which is now more vsed lest any man should feare that were not sufficiēt to satisfy for the remnant of the debt due for mortall sinnes forgiuen I know not whether to impute it to ignorance or impudencie but most intollerable presumption it is to make that author whatsoeuer he was a faulter of your popish secret satis faction now vsed to be prescribed in your secret shrifts For this writer as I haue before declared aloweth no secret satisfaction for the loosing of mortal crimes but vpon a verie hard condition namely sed mutato priùs saeculari habitu c. but so that the secular habit be first changed and the studie of religion be confessed by correction of life and continuall and perpetuall sorow thorough the mercie of God but so onelie that he doe contrarie things to them for which he repenteth euery Sundaie humby and submmissiuelie vnto his death he receiue the Eucharist c. This is not to say pater noster in rememberance of the fiue wounds or to giue fiue pence grotes or shillings to fiue poore men or to fast fiue frydaies or such single satisfaction as your Popish priests in shirst doe enioyne Touching the worde satisfaction vsed by this Monkish Augustine it is neuer vsed by the right autentike Austine to graunt that the sufferings or doeings of man can satisfy the iustice of god who is satisfied by Christs obedience onelie and by none other meane the vertue of whose satisfaction is communicated vnto vs by the holie Ghost whereof we are assured by faith onelie but not by a solitarie faith as this heretike doth slaunder vs but by a faith accompanied fruiteful huelie effectuall and workeing by loue as the holie scripture teacheth vs whatsoeuer these blasphemous dogs barke against it ALLEN Now to this ende haue we saied al this that the faithful may vnderstand perfectlie what the Pope may by right remit thorugh his Pardon and Indulgence For looke what the officers of Gods Church may binde that without all doubt may they vpon good consideration release againe Therefore if they may enioyne penance for yeares and daies both openlie out of the sacrament and also in priuate satisfaction after Confession then may they release certaine daies and yeares of the same penance which was prescribed before For loosing and binding pertaine by reason law Christs owne graunt as to one act of iurisdiction that the one beeing lawfull the other must needes so be also If the Church be of right power and authoritie to prescribe penance of seuen yeares she hath the like right to remit vpon iust respect either all those yeares or some part of the same especiallie hauing meanes otherwise to supplie the lacke of fatisfaction of Gods iustice in the partie penitent FVLKE There is no faithfull man can perceiue by any thing that you haue saide what right the Pope hath to remit by his pardon and indulgence that which is enioyned by an other It is out of doubt that the officers of the Church vpon good consideration may release that which they binde except for in emissibie sins they binde with insoluble bandes And therefore they may release daies or yeares appointed for triall of the repentance if the Church can be satisfied in shorter time But for priuate satisfaction of Gods iustice or any satisfaction of his iustice they can neither binde nor loose enioyne nor release Therefore if the Church be of power to enioyne and prescribe penance for seauen yeares shee is of power also to release seuen yeares or part of the same but shee hath no meanes to supplie the satisfaction of Gods iustice which is fullie satisfied in Christ whose satisfaction is not to be disposed according to the iudgement of men but is applied to all the elect of God according to his will and pleasure Now whereas you speake of seauen yeares penance and the streightest Canons of Ancyre prescribe but 25. yeares for the greatest crime whereto serue so many thousand yeares of Pardon If therefore all that you haue saide tende to this ende that men may vnderstand that the Pope hath power to release times of penance enioyned seeing no councell euer enioyned a thousand yeares penance nor any penance beyonde the time of a mans life in so much that the Councell of Nice decreed that they which departe out of the world should be receiued into the communion although their time were not expired why doth the Pope take vpon him to graunt an hundred thousand yeares of pardon at a clap as I haue shewed before out of a pardon imprinted and confirmed by Leo 10 But if the Pope haue authoritie to graunt pardon for so many thousand yeares of penance enioyned by the right of binding and loosing which you saie by reason law and graunt of Christ pertaine to one act of iurisdiction that the one beeing lawfull the other must needs be so also Then may euerie priest enioyne an hundred 50. 40. 10. or 7. thousand yeares of penance to them that come to shrift as wel as the Pope giue pardon for so many thousand yeares for hundreds be but beggerly things to talke of where thousand be so rife If you answere that the Pope doth pardon not onelie yeares of penance enioyned but also of yeares due to be enioyned the difficultie is nothing auoided for if thousands of yeares be due the priest may enioyne thousands of yeares But then he shal exceede al the Canons penitential that euer were made in any councel and yet be forced to graunt pardon at the houre of death ALLEN And therefore I ioyne in argument and open reason with our aduersaries thus To giue pardon in moste common and Catholike sense of that worde is to release some part or all the enioyned penance for sinnes remitted But the Pope because he is the principall gouernour of Gods Church may release any penance enioyned vpon iust considerations Ergo the Pope may lawfullie giue Pardons The Minor wherein the aduersaries may perchance giue backe I prooue thus That which was bound by the Churches or Popes authoritie may be lawfullie loosed by the same authoritie againe because Christ himselfe ioyned in his graunt both these acts togetber and they are prooued to be proper to one iurisdiction But the Church by the Decrees of Bishops and Councells hath appointed such penance and so many yeares of correction for sundrie faults therefore the same Bishops or such as be of the like authoritie when they see occasion may remit the penance of the saied yeares or some part of it by limitation of daies or seasons as the state of the penitent requireth or the
fundation afterwarde to make a florish in wordes and a vaine 〈◊〉 of confirming your foundation As in this cause it had beene moste necessarie if the compasse of your cause could haue borne it to haue first prooued substantiallie that there remaineth temporall punishment after sinne remitted to satisfie the iustice of God Then that the iustice of God not satisfied by the act of Christs sacrifice on the crosse may be satisfied afterward Thirdlie the meane wherby it may be satisfied which you cal the treasure of the Church fourthly that dispensation therof belongeth to the pope these things once prooued the way had beene plainner to bring in the Popes pardons for proofe of which to be good you haue plaide the proctour all this while But these matters must be daintelie touched the compasse of your cause can not abide to haue them thoroughlie handled And therefore it is sufficient to affirme them for other proofe you haue none of them And yet as though you brought with you noe worsse then mathematicall demonstrations you blow the trumpe afore hand to giue more light to the matter the greater ouerthrow to falsehood to driue the cause forward and weigh the wholl state of things And what saie you to the purpose forsooth you tell vs that there be three kindes of punishment of mans sinnes after they be remitted But sir wee beleeue you not where is your demonstration Why Is it not sufficient that M. Allen saith so what an vnrea sonable man are you that will not learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause well seeing we muste haue none other proofe of your sayings let vs see what you say first the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe with all are none What those be I know not except it be some superstitious vowes and such like matters but the fruites of repentance which God chargeth a man withal be so necessarie to be brought forth that otherwise the repentance is fained and thereof followeth no remission Againe ciuill punishment is none and yet nothing is more like to prooue that purpose what is it then The first easiest is that penance which is enioyned in secret confession In deed that is easie and such as may encourage men to commit sinnes for which they make so easie satisfaction toties quoties But what is the effect of this satisfactió It standeth for a full satisfaction before God when it is accomplished What alwaie Nay often times if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes Then is there no certaintie in this matter but in steede of a quietnes of conscience a torment followeth vpon it if the sinner be not assured that his penance enioyned will goe for paiement or satisfaction Well when this easie penance is a full satisfaction whence taketh it so great force you answere small workes by force of the sacraments are verie effectuall But to prooue this patch of Poperie to be a sacrament what daie wil you take for that which is the grounde of al your disputation is denied of vs as you know So that hetherto but by petion of principles you get nothing ALLEN The second way of punishment is appointed by the Canons generallie for such faultes as be committed after Baptisme that is to saie by the lawes of the Church or Decrees of Bishops and chiefe Magistrates thereof and is called Canonicall satisfaction Which is much more sparpe and greeuous then the other that in priuate penance is commonlie giuen and a great deale more answerable to Gods iustice and the greeuousnes of the crimes committed And so the Canons were not onelie prescribed as some iudge not right of them for open offences to satisfie the Church and the offence of the people but also euen for secret sinnes as we may perceiue by Saint Augustine Tertullian and other that haue written of penance And this waie prescribed satisfaction by the auncient decrees of Councells which lightlie appointed seuen yeares of penance for euerie deadelie sinne was almost a rule for such as heard secret confessions to moderate their penance by which they lightlie gaue to the penitents euen after the limitation of the saide decrees auncient Canons Now to giue so many yeares or daies of penance signifieth the iniunction or prescriptions of fasts by certaine weekelie thoroughout the said prefixed times or continualfasting from moste meates euerie daie in all those yeares of penance other then would suffice for susteining of nature as bread and water and such shinne diet which 〈◊〉 bodie in this fall of our strength and manners could now scarse beare with this continuall mourning in outward behauiour of countenance speach and apparell and which was the greatest of all necessarie abstinence from the holie sacrament till the said penance was accomplished And this great penance was in the Primitiye Church prescribed by the Canons not onelie for cautell and prouision for the like sinnes afterward to be committed then when the Church had her punishment for sinnes seuerall from the paines appointed by the ciuill lawes for the same but also for the satisfiyng of gods iustice for the penitents sinnes the burden whereof then was counted as indeede it is so intollerable that neither the Church spared to enioyne great satisfaction nor the offenders refused to receiue and accomplish the same with humilitie This therefore is the second waie of punishment or prescription of penance for mortall sinnes remitted or in waie to be remitted by the penance of the partie In which kinde you may account also the seuere punishments which concerne the soull moste although sometimes they are ioyned vnto some corporall afflictions as excommunication suspension degradation such like for al these were vsual in the beginning of Christian daies for correction of sinne FVLKE Canonical punishment as we heard latelie in the next Chapter before was vt satis fait Ecclesiae to make satisfaction to the Church and not to the iustice of God who accepteth a contrite and an humble heart thorough the vertue of Christs death and passion as a full satisfaction to his instice You saie the Canons were not onelie prescribed as some iudge not rightlie of them for open offences to satisfie the Church the offence of the people but also euen for secret sinnes But how is this prooued that you saie you tell vs that we may perceiue it by S. Austine Tertullian and others that haue written of penance If it be as you saie why be not their sayings set downe and we with them that iudge not rightlie conuinced by them At lest why be not the places quoted where we may perceiue such a matter belike the compasse of the cause cannot abide it as also you sate this fal of our strength and manners could scarse beare such streight penance as by the Canons is prescribed You ioyne two things together of diuerse natutes If the strength of mans bodie be so greatly fallen as they are not able to endure such hard punishment
lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life and therefore that Purgatorie bindeth no man but in respect of satisfying Gods iustice which was not answered here before either by our selues or by the Churches correction and enioyned penance FVLKE The cause you confesse to be waightie that the gouernours of the Church should release that paine which Gods hand hath laid vpon the offender for his temporall correction and therefore you must stand vpon it but as long as you stand you bring neither authoritie of scripture testimonie of antiquitie reasonable argument or sensible experience For first the ground of al your disputation is vtterlie false that God punisheth for sinnes remitted to satisfie his iustice And therefore though I graunt your first consideration which is that God punisheth vs for sinne the more because we punish not our selues yet I may not graunt your conclusion the argument whereof is nothing but your asseueration if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisfieth Gods righteousnes For no punishing or suffering of punishment can satisfie Gods iustice or anie part thereof but the punishment suffered by Christ who was beaten for our faults and striken for our offences and therefore his suffering is a full satisfaction for our vnrighteousnes Neither doth Saint Paull speak of anie discipline in the life to come when he exhorteth vs to iudge ourselues but sheweth that the punishment or iudgement which God executeth in this world vpon his children is a cha stisment that we be not condemned with the world as they that neither by doctrine nor by punishment are brought to repentance your next conclusion is that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him selfe doth not binde man but for lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life But this conclusion you your selfe do afterward denie when you affirme that bodelie punishment commeth vpon men for manie other causes then for correction for sinne onelie or a purgation of a mans life past Finallie if purgatorie do binde no man but in respect of satisfying gods iustice so long as it is certaine that Gods iustice is satisfied toward al his elect in the death and obedience of Christ it is out of doubt that purgacorie hath nothing to do with anie of Gods elect to whome Christ is giuen of his father to be wisdome righteousnes holines and redemption that as it is written he that reioyceth maie reioyce in the Lord. ALLEN Consider secondlie that he thatfully is discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life whether it be iust accomplishing of his due aud deserued penance or by remission of Gods Church and answering otherwise his lack therein the same person must of necessitie be also charged of Purgatory and alpaine in this life which els God could haue enioyned for sinne because this debt of Purgatorie rose vnto the penitent for the answer of Gods iustice and lack of paiment in this life the which being discharged to the honour of God and the reliefe of the partie there remaineth no bond of paine to come For debt is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie and I speake rather of 〈◊〉 then of other painer enioyned by God in this life because that is euer appointed to man onelie as a recompence of Gods iustice and as due correction for sinne remitted when of all other paines in this world whether it be sicknes or death no man can assuredlie saie that this or that bodelie punishment came vpon anie man as a correction for his sinnes onelie or as a purgation of his life past For somtimes suchthings folow the necessary of our corrupted nature sometimes they be for our proofe and exercise and sometimes for other causes But those kindes of punishments which God laieth vpon man onelie for correction and satisfying for his sins neuer fal vpon him after he be either iudged by his owne teares or the Churches sufficient satisfaction enioyned or els vpon reasonable cause remitted The like afflictions maie continue in anie person after the bonde of them be remooued or maie be giuen afterward but for the satisfaction of his owne sinnes or anie debt proceeding thereof they be not because the debt is discharged in so much that I dare be bolde to saie if anie man were sick by Gods appointment for that cause onelie to satisfie for his sinnes remitted before in the sacrament that he should straight recouer vpon the discharge of the debt which he did owe to God for his iustice if that into mitie were for no other cause but that onelie as it maie be for manie mo wherof no man can casilie iudge FVLKE He that is fullie discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life by free remission of his sinnes through the satisfaction of Iesus Christ must needes be dischar ged of Purgatorie except you will saie that accomplishing of penance and remission of the Church is of more force then the suffering of Christ and the remission of God For debt as you saie truelie is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie But God sorgiueth our sinnes freelie and Christ hath paied the redemption for them iustlie as all the scriptures do testifie Therefore there remaineth no bond of paine to come But now you render a reason why you speake of purgatorie rather then of other paines enioyned by God in this life And that is this that purgatorie is neuer suffered but sor satisfying for sinne onely where other paines of this life maie be for other causes Marke how this geare hangeth together First you haue no shew of proofe that there remaineth anie paine due to satisfie Gods iustice for sinnes remitted but the afflictions of this life and now you confesse that they maie be and often are for other causes How prooue you then that euer they be for this pretended cause namelie for satisfying of Gods iustice for sinnes remitted Well let that passe Seeing the afflictions of this life were brought to prooue that there be three diuerse waies of temporal punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euerie of which waies maie in some cases be released in parte or in wholl by the Popes pardons how happeneth it that we can haue no experience of the Popes pardonsin releasing any man of the temporall afflictions of this life as sicknes imprisonment c You answer that these bodilie afflictions maie be for other causes so flie quite from your holde yet that you may stand in a corner pelt your enemies you turne again say that you dare be bold to say if any man were sick by gods appoint ment for that cause onely c. that he should straight waie recouer vpon the discharging of that debt which he did owe to gods iustice but a pardon wil discharge that debt therfore a pardō wil make him recouer This I confes is boldly said of you But where is the experience shew one man
of them The example of Aarons intercession as he was the high priest shewed the effect of Christes priesthood of whome he was a figure whose perfect sacrifice represented in the incense was a sweete sauour of reconciliation vnto God for the preseruation not onelie of the Israelites but of all Gods elect both from temporall and eternall destruction This example of Aarons incense therefore is as farre differing from the Popes pardons as Aarons office differeth from Antichristes presumption ALLEN But it were to long to make rehersall of all such punishments as God hath afflicted his people with all for sinne and yet hath beene either wholie put of or much thereof abated by these priestes euen of the olde lawe when they had no warrant promise nor commission in sacrament or otherwise either to binde or loose as by iurisdiction or anie otherwise but by their praiers where ours of the newe law and testament haue expresselie receiued a full power and commission concerning the same Therefore now in the new lawe and in the daies of grace where mercie and iudgement be met together truth and peace be ioyned we shall finde expresse examples of iustice and iudgement on the one side and grace and mercie on the other not onelie in the gouernment of Popes and Bishops but in Christes owne regiment and his holie Apostles from whome to our priestes all this power prooceedeth In them then of whome heresie and falshoode doe stande in awe let vs see whether anie examples maie be found of pardoning the paine due for sinne The seuen deuils possession of one womans bodie was no small punishment for sinne yet when it pleased Christ he both forgaue her the sin discharged her of that horrible punishment for the same she had a graund pardon a plenarie Indulgence because she loued much Yea a woman thae had committed adulterie and therefore by the law subiect to death was pardoned by Christ not onelie of her sinne and damnation but of that penaltie which by Gods law shee was subiect vnto for the same sin wherby he declared that he had full power not onelie to remit sinnes but also to giue pardon for any temporall punishment prouided by law for sinne Where are they woman that doe accuse thee quoth Christ Here is none here said she Lord. If none haue condemned thee goe thy waie therefore and sinne no more And this is the 8. of Saint Iohns Gospell FVLKE Yf the Priests of the old law had no warrant promise or commission to binde or loose any waie but by their praiers for as much as the dutie of praier is not proper to priests but common to al faithfull persons you can prooue no shadow of the power of Priests in releasing Gods punishment by their putting of or abating such punishment by praier onelie Although you saie vntrulie that they had no warrant of binding and loosing in sacrament or otherwise For they had power and commission to separate the cleane from the vncleane to exclude from the participation of the Sacraments and sacrifices to cast out of the sinagogue and to receiue againe But thereof I will not dispute at this time That is a greater matter you speake of that Christ himselfe gaue a pardon Who doubreth but that Christ had fullnes of power to pardon according to his diuine pleasure Yf the Pope may doe whatsoeuer Christ did let him caste out Deuills clense the Lepers raise the deade yea let him make another worlde But where you saie that the adulteres Iohn 8. was pardoned by Christ of the temporall penaltie that shee was subiect vnto by Gods law for her sinne that was stoning to death you speake beside the Gospell for there is no one worde to prooue it but rather Christ sheweth that he had not to do with ciuil punishments as when he refused to deuide the inheritance betweene the brethren and discouereth the hypocrisie of the Pharisies who when they had no authoritie to execute any offendour by death beeing restreined by the Romane lawes and power come to tempt him that either he should giue sentence of her against the law of God or ells seeme cruel in pronouncing sentence of death against her whose life the ciuill authoritie did spare What is here like the Popes pardons or what hath any pardon of Christ like to the Popes pardons ALLEN Which example I alledge the rather because Saint Augustine noreth it as a strange power and iurisdiction that should remit the punishment enioyned by the law it selfe for a publike crime where the person was taken with the manner Yea he applieth it to the Priests and Bishops and prooueth that it becommeth them at the lest to make intercession to the temporall officers by occasion for the release of offendours even where they be subiect vnto the appointed punishment of the lawes Wherein he saith that though they cannot by their authoritie commaund their release yet that it behoueth the Ciuill Magistrates to release the paine where they doe make request For which cause Macedonius a Magistrate had challenged Saint Augustine or rather asked him the question why Bishops did so much intermedle in the temporall iudgement for procuring pardon to offendours in so much that they would not take it well if they obtained not the remission of the parties punishment for whome they made intercession To whome Saint Augustine answereth trimelie and largelie where amongest other things he saith Ipse Dommus intercessit ne lapidaretur adultera eo modo nobis commendautt intercessionis officium Our Lord himselfe made intercession for the woman taken in adultery by that fact commended vnto vs the office of intercession And Saint Augustine excommunicated Countie Bonifacius that he tooke from the Church an offendour and put him to execution when he came to the Church for mercy pardon So prone hath Gods Church euer beene to remit the paine for sinne deserued not onelie where she had full authoritie to pardon at her pleasure but euen there where it could not otherwise be had but by intercession to other men who had to doe therewith FVLKE You quote Saint Augustines epist. 54 ad Macedonium as though he should note it a strange power and iurisction that should remit the punishment inioyned by the law it selfe for a publike crime But there is no such note of any such strange power and iurisdiction in all that Epistle In deede he supposeth that this dutie of intercession for offendours is commended to the Ecclesiasticall persons by this example and that Magistrates are to be mooued with pitie to pardon offenders at their request But he speaketh not of any power or iurisdiction in this intercession but of humble petition Our Lord him selfe saith he was a meane among men that the adulteres should not be stoned and by that means commended to vs the duetie of intercession sauing that he did it by terrifying that we do by petition For he was the Lord and we are
homini Christtano indulgentia potest dari qui firmiter credat Papam posse dare se posserecipere habeat charitatem in affectu vt sit verè contritus confessus Of the parte of him that receiueth ae pardon it is required that he haue faith in vnderstanding because a pardon cannot be giuen but to a Christian man which steadfastlie beleeueth that the Pope is able to giue and he able to receiue and that he haue charitie in affection that he be truelie contrite and confessed More then this beside the fulfilling of the cause for which the pardon was graunted he doth not require In so much that he alloweth that a man maie receiue a pardon for his father and mother whether they be liuing or dead if the Pope doe so applie his pardon that he which will goe ouer the sea or to S. Iames in his fathers or mothers name shall inioie it for them and the receiuer doth performe as much for them The iust cause of graunt in the giuers is determined by the glosse aforesaid to be the honour of God and the exaltation of faith by such profitable workes as are expressed and required in the pardons as pilgrimage saying of such a praier giuing to such a fraternitie c. in which not the quantitie but the kinde of the worke is to be considered so that for a verie small worke maruelous large pardon maie be graunted if it please the Pope to whome the dispensation of the treasure of the Church is principallie committed for Bishops which are able to giue but fortie daies out of that treasure are but pettie baylies whome if you will accuse for lauishing the treasure in graunting of ouer large pardons you break the Canon lawe which telleth you that you must not call him to an account for his doings ALLEN Neuertheles the causes of giuing indulgencies may be more or lesse reasonable according to the state and varietie of thinges which to the wisdome of Gods Vicar in earth is best seene whome Christ so ruleth in that case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies and in this great contempt of deuout and religious exercises the moouing onely of the people to prayer to holie peregrinations to the obedience of the Church may be a sufficient cause why there should be to praiers said vpon bookes beads or sanctified creatures for such purpose annexed great remission For looke what thinges be moste condemned of heretikes those things must Christian men be induced to reuerence with moste singular zeale religion Neither can there be anie thing in the worlde so necessarie for vs christian men of these times that be so voide of good workes as by deuotion and entire zeale to ioyne with our elders that in the holy communion of Sainctes we may be partakers of their vertuous deedes And that is the verie ende of all the Popes Pardons to make vs in our lake of satisfaction for our sinnes felowes and coparteners of the abundance that was in Christ first and then by him in our holy brethren departed before vs. FVLKE Throughout this chapter hitherto you haue disputed against the power of the Pope and the force of his pardons now it is time for you to coie him againe and to raise vp his pardons which you haue pressed downe so lowe Now the wisdome of Gods vicar is sufficient to iudge the causes of giuing indulgences and Christ so ruleth him in that case that he maie be moste beneficiall to his houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies the Popes large pardons for litle workes may be of great force Then belike your former discourse serueth not for these daies that men muste fulfill their penance if they maie notwithstanding anie pardon that a pardon doth not remit anie good worke inioyned in penance that if a man lack power to fulfill this penance he must supplie it with other workes counteruailable or els the Popes pardons shall not be beneficiall to them at all or nothing so much as they seeme to sound But why saie you that in these daies Christ ruleth his Vicar in this case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold Hath not Christ as great care of his holy houshold the Church in all times and in all cases as in these daies and in this case Yes verilie But Christ hath not alwaies and in all cases ruled the Pope as it might be moste beneficiall to his Church for then his key of iurisdiction should neuer haue erred nor his life bene wicked to the great hurte and shame of his Church that I speake not of his criors in doctrine which you will not graunt as you doe the other Therfore it followeth that the Pope is not Christes vicar in earth appointed for the most benefite of his Church Your principle that thinges which heretikes doe hate must be moste reuerenced is false For nothing is to be esteemed more then the nature of the thing requireth whether it be loued or hated of heretikes The Anabaptists hate the wearing of armour it followeth not therefore that the wearing of armour should be counted a religious thing or more reuerenced then as a lawfull vsage and sometimes necessarie among Christians The verie end of the Popes pardons is well known to be the maintenance of the Popes pride and couetousnes the pretended end is wicked blasphemous derogating from the sacrifice of Christs death which is a full satisfaction and purging of all our sins the participation wherof is through faith wrought in our hearts by the spirite of God and not by the Popes application or coupling of anie Saintes merites with the onelie and omnisufficient sacrifice of Christ. ALLEN Vpon all which it is verie plaine that euerie man can not beneficiallie receiue the fruite of a Pardon this at least being requisite in euery man that listeth to attaine benefite thereby that he be in state of grace aud in earnest intent to continue in the knot of Christ his Church with loue and liking of the holie workes of his Christian brethren and accomplishing at least that small worke which commonlie now is ioyned to the Pardon for increase of Christian deuotion The continuance of which deuotion that more and more decaieth maketh the Pardons to be more common at this daie of late yeares then they were in the primitiue Church when moste men in the spring of Christian religion and feruour of faith sought to satisfie exactlie the debt of the penance or else which was a common case then recompensed it by Martyrdom though S. Gregorie the first of that name more then nine hundered yeare since in the ordering of the slations at Rome is knowne to haue giuen Pardons for yeares or daies in like forme as now is vsed And cleare it is that the thing it selfe being found lamfull no Protestant aliue can euer be able