goe hee neuer went into hell of the damned where the faithfull neuer come And therefore to conclude Augustine though he translate in inferno and ex inferno meaneth onely the graue or at the largest the Region of death whither the dead goe Say not then that we translate graue against Christs descending into hell wee may with Augustine translate hell and yet with him not meane the hell of the damned but the common hell of the dead PAPIST Likewise to auoide the descending of Christ into hell for the delâ—uerie of the olde Fathers they translate thus Christ hath once suffered for sinnes the iust for the vniust that hee might bring vs to God and was put to death concerning the flesh but was quickened 1. Pet. 3. 18. by the spirit by which also hee went and preached to the spirits that are in prison In which short sentence be three corruptions to wit By the spirit for In the spirit By the which for in the which and Are in prison for were in prison Corruptions I say they are as I appeale for triall to their former translation and of purpose to denie that Christ in soule or spirit did descend to the Fathers that were in Limbo or as it is heere said in prison when S. Peter wrote his Epistle as by forcing in the word Are in steede of Were they would haue the Reader thinke then wére they not deliuered by Christes descension as we teach and S. Peter in this place PROTESTANT It is strange to see how you are blinded and oppressed with a spirit of slumber that you cannot discerne how impossible it is to fit this place to your Limbus First if Abrahams bosome be this imagined limbus neither may these disobedient in the dayes of Noe whom the Scripture calleth the world of the vngodly 2. Pet 2. 5. be placed in Abrahams bosome being for eating and drinking and all sensuality more like to the rich glutton then to Abraham neither may the olde Fathers for whose deliuerance Luk. 21. Christ descended as you say be branded with the note of disobedience to whom the holy Ghost beareth witnesse that they died in the faith and had good report for their faith This Heb. 11. 13. 39. place therefore speaking of Christes comming in the Spirit and preaching to the Spirits that were disobedient in the daies of Noe cannot be applied to the Fathers in Abrahams bosome which also very vnfitly may be termed a prison Secondly if it be yeelded that Christ went in soule to the place called Abrahams bosome as we denie not but he did it being all one with that Paradise wherein Christ promised that the penitent theefe should be with him yet if your Limbus be in the Region of hell a border of hell Christ could not descend into it when he went into Abrahams bosome for betweene Hell and Abrahams bosome there is a great Chaos or as Augustine saith Quidam biatus multum ea separans Epist 99. ad Eâ—od a certaine wide gap much separating them a wide space of distance that none can come out of the one Region into the other and therefore Augustine resolueth that Abrahams bosome which is an habitation of a kinde of secret quietnes or rest is at no hand to be thought or beleeued to be any part â—â—â—â—ll In so much that if the Scripture had said that Christ when he died went into Abrahams bosome Augustine meruaileth whether anie man would haue beene so bolde as out of such words to affirme that Christ descended into hell Thirdly Augustine beating his head about that place as Euodius offered it vnto him namely to see how it might be applied to Christes descending into hell findes so many difficulties in it that hee wisheth Euodius rather to consider whether the whole place belong nothing at all to hell but rather to those times the paterne whereof Peter applied to the times present to shew that those which now beleeue not the Gospell preached are like those that beleeued not and perished in the daies of Noe. Thus applying the place to the example of those daies Non suspicemur saith Augustine quod apud inferos ad faciendos fideles atque liberandos Euangelium predicatum sit Let vs not imagine that the Gospell vvas preached in hell to make men faithfull and to deliuer them as if anie Church vvere there To the other sense which Euodius had taken hold of from others Augustine saith The author of at seemes to haue beene drawen because Peter said hee preached to the Spirits that vvere shut vp in prison as if saith he it might not be vnderstoode of their soules vvho then were shut vp in the darknes of ignorance as in a prison to whoÌ„ then liuing the building of the Ark by Noe was after a sort a preaching before the sloud as at this day the daily building of Gods Church is a preaching to the vnbeleeuers before the day of iudgement and so those times are a paterne of these Thus hauing answered this obiection he proceedeth to answere another that might be made against this latter sense namely that Christ in those times was not come and therefore could not then preach Let this trouble no man saith Augustine Nondum enim venerat scilicet in carne veruntamen ab initio generis humani ipse vtique non in carne sed in spiritu veniebat quod autem dixi in spiritu veniebat Et ipse quidem filius in substantia deitatis quoniam corpus non est vtique Spiritus est Christ saith Augustine vvas not then come to vvit in the flesh Howbeit from the beginning of mankinde hee came not indeede in the flesh but in the spirit and that vvhich I said he came in the Spirit is thus to be vnderstood that the sonne of man in the substance of his godhead because he is not a bodie is vvithout doubt a spirit This saith Augustine the verie vvords of Scripture in hand doe sufficientlie manifest to them that take diligent heede vnto them and then repeating the words of the text maketh this paraphrase of his owne Christus mortificatus carne viuificatus autem spiritu In quo spiritu adueniens praedicauit illis spiritibus qui incredali fuerant alâ—quando in diebus Noe quoniam priusquam veniret in carne pro nobis moriturus quod semel fecit saepè antea veniebat in spiritu ad quos volebat visis eos admoneus sicut volebat vtique in spiritu quo spiritu viuificatus est quum in passione esset carne mortificatus Quid est enim quod viuificatus est spiritu nisi quod eadem caro qua sola fuerat mortificatus viuificante spiritu resurrexit Christ saith he was mortified in the flesh and quickened in the spirit in vvhich spirit he came preached euen to those spirits which had bene sometime disobedient in the daies of Noe for before he came in the flesh to die for vs vvhich he did once he came many times before
the thing is so euident and certaine That Saint Gregorie likewise coined not a new religion but kept that which by continuall succession descended vnto him from Saint Peter is as sure and certaine for if he had all the Christian world would haue exclained against him and yet no such complaint is to be found in anie Historie or writer but all highlie commend him for his holinesse and learning and in our English calender he is inrolled for a Saint and the like we may saie of all his predecessors for none of them was euer noted by anie to haue degenerated in anie one article of faith from the religion of their forefathers and the Apostles and well knowen it is that 32. of the first were glorious Martyrs and shed their bloud for the name of Christ PROTESTANT That your popish Church hath continued 1600 yeares is so certaine as it is that your later Popes haue beene and are like those 32 Martyrs whose emptie number you bring forth to gaine credit vnto that degenerate rable that haue succeeded them not in shedding their owne bloud for the truth of Christ as they did but in spilling much Christian bloud partly about strange and vniust quarrels partly by treasonable and rebellious commotions of their owne raising partly by bloudy and fiery persecucions And therefore the succession of your Popes to those Martyrs is noe more credit to you then succession to Moses was to the Scribes and the Pharisees or succession to Aaron was to Annas Caiaphas As in place they succeed godly Bishops so in doctrine they succeed the Scribes and Pharisees and many Heretikes in irreligion and prophanes they succeed Lucian and Porphyrie in tyranny and cruelty Annas and Cayphas and the old persecuting Emperors of Rome into Reuel 13. 15. whose dead image they haue put life againe That which the Apostle Paul foretold of the successors to the Bishops of Ephesus that of themselues should men arise speaking perâ—erse Acts. 20. 30. things to draw Disciples after them hath too long beene verified of the successors in place to those first holy Bishops of Rome And were that true which you say that none of the predecessors to Gregorie the first were euer noted by any to haue degenerated in any one article of faith froÌ„ the religion of their forefathers the Apostles which is not vnknoweÌ„ to your selues to be most false for Alfonsus de Castro doth frankly coÌ„fesse that of Liberius the Pope it is manifest he was an Arriav that Anastasious did fauor the Nestorians Aduers heres lib. cap. 4. he that hath read histories doubteth not yeâ— if the successors of Gregorie haue bin iustly detected some for Atheists some Coniurers Necromancers some for Impoysoners some for villanous cruelty vpon the bodies of the quicke dead some notorious for bastardy besides other odious sins generally bribers Symonists Epicures more like to Sardanapalus or Heliogabolus then Peter or Paul must their succession in place to them to whom all other things they are most vnlike carie the Church of God on their sides your owne silence passing by the mention of all the successors to Gregorie the first by the space of a thousand yeares implies a confession that of those there are some at least degenerate from the religion of their forefathers and the Apostles which if with any face you could denie you would haue saide as much in them praise with lesse truth as you haue done of the former but vntruely But I suppose you cannot be ignorant that your owne Doctor Genebrarde hath Chron. lib. 4. verse 10. marked about a fiftie Popes for the space almost of 150 yeares from Iohn the 8. to Leo. 9. as reuolters wholy from the vertue of their ancestors and saith they were Apostatici apostatici potius quam apostolici Apostaticall rather then Apostolicall yea he calleth them monstrous which also Platina witnesseth with a witnesse of three speciall ones among the 50. Benedict 9. Siluester 3. and Gregorie 6. whom he calleth tria teterrima monstra three most hideous monsters what might be said of Iohn the 8. otherwise Pope Ioan Iohn the 12. two other of the 50. of Gregorie 7. Alexander 3. Bâ—niface 8. Iohn 23. To shew how vnlike they were to the Martyrs their Predecessors in place you cannot be ignorant and therefore you did warily to make no noise of these and the like least their very names might staine their succession and repeale that glory which you thought to get by the fame of Gregorie your Kalendar Saint touching whom whether he coyned any new religion or not or whether hee kept that which by continuall succession descended from Saint Peter how should we more certainly know then by enquiring into that religion which Saint Peter and Saint Paul taught and that not following vncertaine tradition which hath proued the Author of deceiuable fables but the certaine 2 Pet. 1. 1â— 19. line of holy scripture which leades vs to Christ himselfe who onely knew the minde of his father and hath in his written word reuealed it to his Church For as Ciprian saith Si ad diuinae traditionis caput originem reuertamur cessat Ad Pompei contr epist Steph error humanus If we returne to the head and beginning of diuine tradition that is the doctrine which God himselfe deliuered humane error is put downe which that auncient Father by an excellent similitude setteth out thus Si canalis quae c. If the conduit pipe which before did runne in aboundance do suddenlie fatle do not men vse to goe to the fountaine there to know the reason why it faileth c. Quod nunc facere opportot Dei sacerdotes c. which saith he the Priests of God keeping Gods commandements must now do that if the truth haue wauered or failed in auie thing we maie returne to the originall of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence maie arise the reason of our doing from whence the order originall did first spring Which way to trie the truth so long as you do so diligently shun and take such paines to bring all religion to the touch of mans vncertaine authority what do you else but bewray a fearefull and guiltie conscience that dare not stand to the euidence of Gods word but in a suite of life and death saluation and damnation do willingly suffer the true Charters of diuine record to be lost or at least raked vp in the dust and bring in old men that can say nothing but by heare-say nay rather yong men now to tell what they haue heard off sometime said by old men vppon their onely bare heare-say So might the Iewes haue taken the law from the Scribes and Pharisees mouthes and haue learned to loue their friends hate their enemies with Matth. 6. 43. 2 Kings 22. 8. other Pharisaicall lessons and let the law of Moses lie in the dust as it had done
take vpon him to define of what nature the sins are which by the praiers of the liuing are remitted to the dead what those sins are saith he which so hinder coÌ„ming to the kingdom of heauen that yet through the merits of their holy frends they obtaine pardon after death it is most hard to find most dangerous to define I surely euen vntill this time although I haue taken paines enough about it yet could neuer De ciui Dei lib. 21. cap. 27. attaine to search it out Secondly Augustine so praieth for his mother Monica that yet he doubreth not that she in her life time obtayned remission of all her sins by the bloud of Christ dispeÌ„sed to her waiting dailie at his Altar he therefore praieth only that it may be vnto her according to her faith that she may be preserued froÌ„ the powers of darknes receiue the 1 Pet. 1. 9. end of her faith the saluation of her soule that is he praieth for her consuÌ„mation in the kingdome of God of Christ For Augustine himselfe confesseth Therefore no new merits are purchased for the deade when their friends do anie good for them but these things are recompensed to their former merits De verb. Apost Ser. 32 What is this to Popish praier for the gaole deliuery of souls that are in the pains of Purgatory of whoÌ„ you fain that many are the sooner deliuered by your lip-labors a deuise of late times to improue the Popes reuenues and to enrich Cloysters and idle bellies Lastly Augustine himselfe being so vnsetled in the matter of Prayer for the dead that he is faine to bring strange interpretations of the vse of Prayer and other charities for the dead For these being generally done for all the dead he saith that For those that are very good they are thankesgiuings for those that are very euill although they be no helpe to them yet are they comforts to the liuing and yet after that he saith they auaile to make their paines lighter and their damnation more tolerable which if it be so is some helpe for the middle sort they are propitiations that is supplicatorie praiers for pardon of their sinnes which yet speaking of his mother Monica he saith she had in her life time And to salue the Confes lib. 9. cap. 13. 2. Cor. 5. 10. Scripture which saith that euery one shall receiue according to that he hath done in his life he is faine to say that these in their life time deserued to haue benefit by the Churches prayers which what it is else but remission of sinnes Augustine I say being thus inwrapped in vncertainties maruaile you that Caluine said it was anile votum c. an old womans desire which her sonne did not examine by the rule of Scripture but of a naturall affection was desirous to approue vnto others Where resolution wanted in the matter there could be no sufficient warrant whatsoeuer you say to the contrary PAPIST About particular and auricular confession of sinnes we haue also the authoritie of antiquity as the same Caluine informeth Inst lib. 3. cap. 4. sec 7. Auricular confession ancient vs. I maruaile quoth he with what face they dare contend that the confession whereof they speake was ordained by Gods law the vse whereof I confesse was passing auncient but easily can I proue that in old time it was free Nay then with what face dare he deny that to be ordained by Gods law For what man of reason can thinke that antiquitie would haue vsed it had it not descended from Christ and his Apostles or what power could haue brought it into the Church it being so contrarie to our proude nature had not the Sonne of God himselfe planted that doctrine But it was free in old time saith he What then For do we not know that the Communion was so likewise in olde time If then the Church of England may make a law to bind men once in the yeare to the Communion may not the Catholike Church do the like for confession Still Caluine giueth vs the ancient Fathers but reserueth the Scriptures for himselfe we take what be granteth but deny what he requireth PROTESTANT Confession of some particular sinnes specially such as lay heauie vpon the conscience but not of euery particular sinne with euery circumstance and that to euery parish priest in secret which is your popish eare-shrift such confession I say to a Priest by speciall order of the Churches appointed thereunto Caluine doth confesse and well may to be very ancient and yet maintaine popish eare-thrift to be very yong as receiuing his first authoritie from the Laterane councell vnder Innocentius 3. in the yeare of our Lord 1215. as Caluine in the same place telleth you But you aske with what face be dare that it was ordained by Gods law For you say what man of reason can thinke that antiquitie would haue vsed it had it not descended from Christ and his Apostles Tertullian whom you will not deny to be a man of reason though he shew the antiquitie of offerings for the De Coron milit dead yet confesseth there is no Scripture for it Therefore your forcible reason hath neither force nor grace when you thus conclude Antiquitie vsed confession of particular sinnes to a Priest Therefore it was ordained by Gods law Besides doth not M. Caluine proue vnto you that antiquitie held it not to be of diuine institution for otherwise Nectarias Bishop of Constantinople would not haue abrogated it for the abuse of it neither would Chrysostome after him haue giuen so much liberty from such confession as he doth as he is alleaged by M. Caluine in the next section to that you mention See Inft. lib. 3. cap. 4. Sec. 8. therefore with what face you chalenge him in that wherein he bringeth so sufficient proofe The proofe by him there alleaged I set not downe at large because if you will you may as easily finde them set downe by him as you could find this peece by you alleaged But whether your corner-shrift be of that Antiquity that you pretend if Caluins proofes perswade you not see what Beatus Rhenanus writeth Moreouer for no other cause haue we here vsed the testimonies of manie then to this end that no man Argâ—â— in Tertul lib. de pâ—nitent should maruaile that Tertullian hath spoken nothing of this corner or secret confession of sinnes committed which at that time was vtterly vnknowen And in another place in his book De poenitentia Admonit de Tertul dogmat he mentioneth onlie publike confession And againe Not onlie in Tertullian but euen in those which liued manie ages after there is onelie mention of publike pennance and confession If it had descended from Christ and his Apostles it could not haue beene so earely and so long out of vse Such is the antiquity of your Eareshriâ—t Your next reason to deriue it froÌ„ Christ and his Apostles is because it being a
and in sin hath my mother conceiued me it conuinceth that all the frame of the thoughts of Psal 51. 5. mans heart is onely euill continuallie that in vs that is in our flesh dwelleth no good thing it prooues vs to be dead in trespasses and sinnes and therefore to be the children of wrath Whereby we are stripped of all conceit of free will of all presumption Gen. 6. 5. of our owne righteousnes and is the most vniuersal schoolmaister to lead all men vnto Christ In this so high a principle of faith I say your Church and his children hauing either no faith at all or a faith of many colours and manie Eph. 2. 1. 3. shapes notwithstanding your infallible iudge boast no longer of your one and the same Cutholike faith in all the world Your vaine and foolish contumelie which you cast vpon the Protestants that for triall of the scriptures they repaire to the spirit and for triall of the spirit post backe againe to the scripâ—â—res and sorunne round from the Scriptures to the Spirit and from the Spirit to the Scriptures world without end bewraies in you great ignorance of our doctrine For we diuide not the Spirit from the Scriptures nor the Scriptures from the Spirit that we should be faine to runne or go from the one to the other onely in the Scriptures we heare or learne of the Spirit whatsoeuer we know in the Scriptures we know it by the teaching of Gods Spirit that speaketh in them whatsoeuer we learne of the Spirit we learne it by and out of the Scriptures when we repaire to the Sriptures we repaire to the Spirit and when we go to enquire of the Spirit we go to the Scriptures If the God of this worlde had not blinded your eies that the light of this truth cannot shine vnto you you would neuer haue vpbraided vs with posting to and fro and running round But because you tell vs of roundes I pray you see what roundes your selires make in a matter of Faith of greatest consequence in all your Religion you giue out this conclusion as an article Subesse roâ—â—no Poâ—tifici omni creaturae est Extr. com de Ma. ior c. obed â—nam Sactam de necessitate salutis To be subiect to the Pope of Roâ—â—e is nâ—cessaerie to saluation for euerie creature we require you to proue it you alleage that the Pope is the heade of the vniuersal Church we yet aske for proofe you bring vs Tues Peirus super hane petraÌ„ c. Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke I wil build my Church tibi dabo claues to thee I wil giue the keies of the kingdome of heauen pasce oues me as feed my sheep feed my lambes We tell you Peter is one stone in the building but no rock or if you will needes haue a rocke his confession or Christ whom heconfessed is the rocke or foundation whereon the Church is builded we tell you the keies were giuen to Peter not alone but to the rest of the Apostles and hee with them commanded to feede sheepe and lambes and further whatsoeuer was giuen to Peter extendeth not to the Pope who is not Peter you say that Peter receiued those honours for himselfe and his successors and that the Church is built vpon him and them as a rocke and that he for himselfe his successors receiued the keies and left them to the Pope of Rome who now is Shepheard ouer sheepe and lambes all this you will proue by the scriptures we râ—â—uire you to proue that the Scriptures haue this sense you fetch your proofe from the Fathers we bring the Fathers as cleerly yea more cleerely for our interpretation then you can for Concil Nicen. Conat Afric yours you thrust on forward to the CouÌ„cels we bring you the authority of Councels to make the Pope no more theÌ„ a peere among other Patriarkes yea to cutte him off from medling out of his Dioces now you post to Councels confirmed by the heade that is the Pope whom either with Conncels or without you make your only infallible Iudge Are you now where you began do you thus daunce in a rounde and tell vs of roundes The Pope is head of the vniuersall Church Who saith so the Scriptures who shall interpret the Scriptures the Fathers Fathers not agreeing who shall iudge betweene them Councels Councels agree not who then shall strike the stroke the Pope And so the Pope is heade of the Church because the Pope will be so With these rounds you haue made giddie and brai nesicke innumerable poore soules God in his mercie stablish their hearts with grace that their eies may see the pitte before they fall into it Now I pray you what be those matters of Faith wherein the Protestants haue such mortall dissention without any hope of agreement they are many you say reckon them that we see how many they be The descending of Christ into hell and the lawfulnes of Archbishops and Bishops Is the question about Archbishops Bishops a matter of faith among Papists it may well be so who hold the Popes supremacy for the first and chiefe yea in effect for all the articles of their faith but surely Protestants holde it onely for a matter of order appertaining to the externall gouernement of the Church which is farre from a matter of faith your many matters of faith then are come to but one and that such a one as in ancient times was no article of faith at all in your Romane Creede no nor yet receiued in the East Churches In. expos Symboli as Ruffinus affirmeth Sciâ—nauÌ„ est quod in Ecclesiae Romana Symbolo non habetur additum We must know that it is not found added in the Creede of the Romane Church neither is the canse receiued among the East Churches And being receiued there Epist 99. was little certainty of the sense and meaning of it Ruffinus takes it to be all one with Sepultus est he was buried Augustine De Genes ad Lit. lib. 12. cap. as is afore shewed denies that Abrahams bosome is any part of holl and else where confesseth that neuer yet found that it is called hell where the soules of the righteous do rest And so little light can be founde of any such conceite as Papists De Christi anima lib. 4. cap. 5. haue of Christs descending into hell that Bellarmine saith Non est necessaria presentia animae Christi c. The presence of Christs soule to inlighten the Fathers with the diuine vision of him is not necessarie yet it seemed to be of congruitio that it should be present while that was in doing He makes it not of necessity but of congruity and that but in seeming neither this is as touching the sense but a weake matter of faith to obiect vnto vs that we dissent about it For we dissent not about the words of the article but receiue it we are