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it_o rain_v you_o say_v the_o creed_n 216._o be_v open_v and_o explain_v in_o some_o part_n in_o the_o creed_n of_o nice_a etc._n etc._n but_o how_o shall_v we_o understand_v the_o other_o part_n not_o explain_v in_o those_o creed_n 5._o for_o what_o article_n in_o the_o creed_n be_v more_o fundamental_a or_o may_v seem_v more_o clear_a then_o that_o wherein_o we_o believe_v jesus_n christ_n to_o be_v the_o mediator_n redeemer_n and_o saviour_n of_o mankind_n and_o the_o founder_n and_o foundation_n of_o a_o catholic_a church_n express_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o yet_o about_o this_o article_n how_o many_o different_a doctrine_n be_v there_o not_o only_o of_o old_a heretic_n as_o arius_n nestorius_n eutiche_n etc._n etc._n but_o also_o of_o protestant_n partly_o against_o catholic_n and_o partly_o against_o one_o another_o for_o the_o say_v main_a article_n of_o christ_n be_v the_o only_a saviour_n of_o the_o world_n etc._n etc._n according_a to_o different_a sense_n of_o disagree_a sect_n do_v involve_v these_o and_o many_o other_o such_o question_n that_o faith_n in_o jesus_n christ_n do_v justify_v alone_o that_o sacrament_n have_v no_o efficency_n in_o justification_n that_o baptism_n do_v not_o avail_v infant_n for_o salvation_n unless_o they_o have_v a_o act_n of_o faith_n that_o there_o be_v no_o sacerdotal_a absolution_n from_o sin_n that_o good_a work_n proceed_v from_o god_n grace_n be_v not_o meritorious_a that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o satisfaction_n for_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n due_a to_o sin_n after_o the_o guilt_n or_o offence_n be_v pardon_v no_o purgatory_n no_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a no_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n no_o invocation_n no_o mediation_n or_o intercession_n of_o saint_n no_o inherent_a justice_n no_o supreme_a pastor_n yea_o no_o bishop_n by_o divine_a ordinance_n no_o real_a presence_n no_o transubstantiation_n with_o diverse_a other_o and_o why_o because_o forsooth_o these_o doctrine_n derogate_v from_o the_o title_n of_o mediator_n redeemer_n advocate_n foundation_n etc._n etc._n yea_o and_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o saviour_n humane_a nature_n if_o we_o believe_v diverse_a protestant_n write_v against_o transubstantiation_n let_v then_o any_o judicious_a man_n consider_v whether_o doctor_n potter_n or_o other_o do_v real_o satisfy_v when_o they_o send_v man_n to_o the_o creed_n for_o a_o perfect_a catalogue_n to_o distinguish_v point_n fundamental_a from_o those_o which_o they_o say_v be_v not_o fundamental_a if_o he_o will_v speak_v indeed_o to_o some_o purpose_n let_v he_o say_v this_o article_n be_v understand_v in_o this_o sense_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v fundamental_a that_o other_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o such_o a_o meaning_n yet_o according_a to_o that_o meaning_n it_o be_v not_o so_o fundamental_a but_o that_o man_n may_v disagree_v and_o deny_v it_o without_o damnation_n but_o it_o be_v no_o policy_n for_o any_o protestant_n to_o deal_v so_o plain_o 6._o but_o to_o what_o end_n shall_v we_o use_v many_o argument_n even_o yourself_o be_v force_v to_o limit_v your_o own_o doctrine_n and_o come_v to_o say_v that_o the_o creed_n be_v a_o perfect_a catalogue_n of_o fundamental_a point_n take_v as_o it_o be_v further_o open_v and_o explain_v in_o some_o part_n by_o occasion_n of_o emergent_a heresy_n in_o the_o other_o catholic_a creed_n of_o nice_a constantinople_n 216._o ephesus_n chalcedon_n and_o athanasius_n but_o this_o explication_n or_o restriction_n overthrow_v you_o assertion_n for_o as_o the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v not_o to_o we_o a_o sufficient_a catalogue_n till_o it_o be_v explain_v by_o the_o first_o council_n nor_o then_o till_o it_o be_v declare_v by_o another_o etc._n etc._n so_o now_o also_o as_o new_a heresy_n may_v arise_v it_o will_v need_v particular_a explanation_n against_o such_o emergent_a error_n and_o so_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o nor_o ever_o will_v be_v of_o itself_o alone_o a_o particular_a catalogue_n sufficient_a
answerable_a but_o already_o answer_v the_o memorandum_n i_o will_v commend_v to_o he_o be_v these_o 30_o that_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o any_o church_n be_v the_o sin_n of_o schism_n 31_o that_o impose_v upon_o man_n under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o necessary_a cause_n of_o separation_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n which_o protestant_n allege_v to_o justify_v their_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 32_o that_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n at_o least_o as_o d._n potter_n understand_v the_o word_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n that_o be_v do_v by_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o by_o cease_v to_o have_v those_o requisite_n which_o constitute_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o it_o as_o faith_n and_o obedience_n this_o by_o refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o any_o church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n and_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n this_o little_a armour_n if_o it_o be_v right_o place_v i_o be_o persuade_v will_v repel_v all_o those_o battery_n which_o you_o threaten_v shall_v be_v so_o furious_a 33_o ad_fw-la §_o 13._o 14._o 15._o the_o first_o be_v a_o sentence_n of_o s._n austin_n against_o donatus_n apply_v to_o luther_n thus_o if_o the_o church_n perish_v what_o church_n bring_v forth_o donatus_n you_o say_v luther_n if_o she_o can_v not_o perish_v what_o madness_n move_v the_o sect_n of_o donatus_n to_o separate_v upon_o pretence_n to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n whereunto_o one_o fair_a answer_n to_o let_v pass_v many_o other_o be_v obvious_a out_o of_o the_o second_o observation_n that_o this_o sentence_n though_o it_o be_v gospel_n as_o it_o be_v not_o be_v impertinent_o apply_v to_o luther_n and_o lutheran_n who_o pretence_n of_o separation_n be_v it_o true_a or_o be_v it_o false_a be_v not_o as_o that_o of_o the_o donatist_n only_o to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n but_o to_o free_v themselves_o from_o a_o necessity_n which_o but_o by_o separate_n be_v unavoidable_a of_o join_v with_o bad_a man_n in_o their_o impiety_n and_o your_o not_o substitute_v luther_n in_o stead_n of_o donatus_n in_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o dilemma_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o former_a will_v make_v a_o suspicious_a man_n conjecture_v that_o you_o yourself_o take_v notice_n of_o this_o exception_n of_o disparity_n between_o donatus_n and_o luther_n 34_o ad_fw-la §_o 16._o your_o second_o onset_n drive_v only_o at_o those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o true_a church_n be_v invisible_a for_o many_o age_n which_o doctrine_n if_o by_o the_o true_a church_n be_v understand_v the_o pure_a church_n as_o you_o do_v understand_v it_o be_v a_o certain_a truth_n and_o it_o be_v easy_a for_o you_o to_o declaim_v as_o you_o do_v then_o to_o dispute_v against_o it_o but_o these_o man_n you_o say_v must_v be_v heretic_n because_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o therefore_o also_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o which_o they_o say_v be_v invisible_a in_o as_o much_o as_o the_o invisible_a church_n communicate_v with_o the_o visible_a 35_o ans._n i_o may_v very_o just_o desire_v some_o proof_n of_o that_o which_o so_o confident_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v no_o persecute_a and_o oppress_v maintainer_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o day_n of_o our_o forefather_n but_o only_o such_o as_o dissemble_v their_o opinion_n &_o live_v in_o your_o communion_n and_o true_o if_o i_o shall_v say_v there_o be_v many_o of_o this_o condition_n i_o suppose_v i_o can_v make_v my_o affirmative_a much_o more_o probable_a than_o you_o can_v make_v your_o negative_a we_o read_v in_o scripture_n that_o elias_n conceive_v there_o be_v none_o leave_v beside_o himself_o in_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n of_o israel_n who_o have_v not_o revolt_v from_o god_n and_o yet_o god_n himself_o assure_v we_o that_o he_o be_v deceive_v and_o if_o such_o a_o man_n a_o prophet_n and_o one_o of_o the_o great_a err_v in_o his_o judgement_n touch_v his_o own_o time_n and_o his_o own_o country_n why_o may_v not_o you_o who_o be_v certain_o but_o a_o man_n and_o subject_a to_o the_o same_o passion_n as_o elias_n be_v mistake_v in_o think_v that_o in_o former_a age_n in_o some_o country_n or_o other_o there_o be_v not_o always_o some_o good_a christian_n which_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o external_o bow_v their_o knee_n to_o your_o baal_n but_o this_o answer_n i_o be_o content_a you_o shall_v take_v no_o notice_n of_o and_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o tell_v you_o that_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o this_o suppose_a invisible_a church_n do_v hypocritical_o communicate_v with_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o her_o corruption_n than_o protestant_n have_v cause_n nay_o necessity_n to_o 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of_o salvation_n to_o none_o among_o you_o but_o to_o those_o who_o ignorance_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o error_n and_o no_o sin_n cause_n of_o their_o ignorance_n and_o present_o after_o when_o another_o project_n come_v in_o your_o head_n you_o make_v his_o word_n soft_a than_o oil_n towards_o you_o you_o pretend_v he_o do_v and_o must_v confess_v that_o your_o doctrine_n contain_v no_o damnable_a error_n that_o your_o church_n be_v certain_o a_o true_a church_n that_o your_o way_n to_o heaven_n be_v a_o safe_a way_n and_o all_o these_o acknowledgement_n you_o set_v down_o simple_a and_o absolute_a without_o any_o restriction_n or_o limitation_n whereas_o in_o the_o doctor_n they_o be_v all_o so_o qualify_v that_o no_o know_v papist_n can_v promise_v himself_o any_o security_n or_o comfort_n from_o they_o we_o confess_v say_v he_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v in_o some_o sense_n a_o true_a church_n and_o her_o error_n to_o some_o man_n not_o damnable_a we_o believe_v 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to_o such_o who_o ignorance_n may_v excuse_v and_o therefore_o he_o have_v more_o cause_n to_o complain_v of_o you_o for_o quote_v his_o word_n without_o those_o qualification_n than_o you_o to_o find_v fault_n with_o he_o for_o use_v of_o they_o 30_o that_o your_o discourse_n in_o the_o 12._o §_o press_v you_o as_o forcible_o as_o protestant_n i_o have_v show_v above_o i_o add_v here_o 1._o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o faith_n according_a to_o rigid_a calvinist_n be_v either_o so_o strong_a that_o once_o have_v it_o can_v never_o be_v lose_v or_o so_o more_o than_o weak_a and_o so_o much_o nothing_o that_o it_o can_v never_o beget_v that_o these_o be_v word_n without_o sense_n never_o any_o calvinist_n affirm_v that_o faith_n be_v so_o weak_a and_o so_o much_o nothing_o that_o it_o can_v never_o be_v get_v but_o it_o seem_v you_o want_v matter_n to_o make_v up_o your_o antithesis_fw-la and_o therefore_o be_v resolve_v to_o speak_v empty_a word_n rather_o than_o loose_v your_o figure_n crimina_fw-la rasis_fw-la librat_fw-la in_o antithetis_fw-la doct_v as_o posuisse_fw-la figuras_fw-la laudatur_fw-la 2._o that_o there_o be_v no_o calvinist_n that_o will_v deny_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o proposition_n christ_n die_v for_o all_o nor_o to_o subscribe_v to_o that_o sense_n of_o it_o which_o your_o dominican_n put_v upon_o it_o neither_o can_v you_o with_o coherence_n to_o the_o receive_a doctrine_n of_o your_o own_o society_n deny_v that_o they_o as_o well_o as_o the_o calvinist_n take_v away_o the_o distinction_n of_o sufficient_a and_o effectual_a grace_n and_o indeed_o hold_v none_o to_o be_v sufficient_a but_o only_o that_o which_o be_v effectual_a 3._o whereas_o you_o say_v they_o can_v make_v their_o call_n certain_a by_o good_a work_n who_o do_v certain_o believe_v that_o before_o any_o good_a work_n they_o be_v justify_v and_o justify_v by_o faith_n alone_o and_o by_o that_o faith_n whereby_o they_o certain_o believe_v they_o be_v justify_v i_o ans_fw-fr there_o 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so_o that_o whosoever_o want_v any_o of_o they_o can_v obtain_v it_o and_o he_o which_o have_v they_o all_o can_v fail_v of_o it_o it_o be_v not_o very_o evident_a that_o they_o be_v sufficient_o agree_v for_o man_n direction_n to_o eternal_a salvation_n and_o see_v charity_n be_v a_o full_a comprehension_n of_o all_o good_a work_n they_o require_v charity_n as_o a_o necessary_a qualification_n in_o he_o that_o will_v be_v save_v what_o sense_n be_v there_o in_o say_v they_o can_v make_v their_o call_n certain_a by_o good_a work_n they_o know_v what_o salvation_n be_v as_o well_o as_o you_o and_o have_v as_o much_o reason_n to_o desire_v it_o they_o believe_v it_o as_o hearty_o as_o you_o that_o there_o be_v no_o good_a work_n but_o shall_v have_v its_o proper_a reward_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o possibility_n of_o obtain_v the_o eternal_a reward_n without_o good_a work_n and_o why_o then_o may_v not_o this_o doctrine_n be_v a_o sufficient_a incitement_n and_o provocation_n unto_o good_a work_n 31_o you_o say_v that_o they_o certain_o believe_v that_o before_o any_o good_a work_n they_o be_v justify_v but_o this_o be_v a_o calumny_n there_o be_v no_o protestant_n but_o require_v to_o justification_n remission_n of_o sin_n and_o to_o remission_n of_o sin_n they_o all_o require_v repentance_n and_o repentance_n i_o presume_v may_v not_o be_v deny_v the_o name_n of_o a_o good_a work_n be_v indeed_o if_o it_o be_v right_o understand_v and_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n in_o scripture_n a_o effectual_a conversion_n from_o all_o sin_n to_o all_o holiness_n but_o though_o it_o be_v take_v for_o mere_a sorrow_n for_o sin_n past_a and_o a_o bare_a purpose_n of_o amendment_n yet_o even_o this_o be_v a_o good_a work_n and_o therefore_o protestant_n require_v this_o to_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o remission_n of_o sin_n to_o justification_n can_v with_o candour_n be_v pretend_v to_o believe_v that_o they_o be_v justify_v before_o any_o good_a work_n 32_o you_o say_v they_o believe_v themselves_o justify_v by_o faith_n alone_o and_o that_o by_o that_o faith_n whereby_o they_o believe_v themselves_o justify_v some_o peradventure_o do_v so_o but_o withal_o they_o believe_v that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v alone_o and_o unaccompanied_a with_o sincere_a and_o universal_a obedience_n be_v to_o be_v esteem_v not_o faith_n but_o presumption_n and_o be_v at_o no_o hand_n sufficient_a to_o justification_n that_o though_o charity_n be_v not_o impute_v unto_o justification_n yet_o be_v it_o require_v as_o a_o necessary_a disposition_n in_o the_o person_n to_o be_v justify_v and_o that_o though_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o imperfection_n of_o it_o no_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v by_o it_o yet_o that_o on_o the_o other_o side_n no_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v without_o it_o so_o that_o upon_o the_o whole_a matter_n a_o man_n may_v true_o and_o safe_o say_v that_o the_o