them And for conclusiō they haue no other foundation of their saying then their owne coniectures and imaginations and the false interpretations which they giue to the writings of the Fathers To the faith wherof they would gladly constraine subiect the Church to the end that hauing laid that foundation they might afterwards build therevpon all the absurdities and errors they shall delight in touching the same And where they presuppose when Christ entered the shut doores walked vpon the waters and went out of the Sepulchre that such myracles were done rather in the person then in the other things Iustine writeth the contrarie saying that without any change happened either in his body or in that of S. Peter he made by his diuine power the Sea against nature to serue him to walke As also S. Hillary to the same purpose saith That by his power hee made all things passeable Wherevnto likewise agreeth S. Iohn Chrisostome attributing all that to diuine power and freely confessing that hee knew not the maner and the fashion thereof By meanes whereof the Ministers are much abashed that the Doctors are so presumptuous to determine a thing which by the scripture and Fathers hath bene left vndecided and wherein as S. Hillary saith wisely sence and words do faile the truth of the deed exceedeth the capacitie of humane reason How dare then the Doctors so boldly say that the body of Iesus Christ passed through the doores that there was penitration of dimensions that two bodies were in one selfe-same place Seeing that of all that neither in the scripture nor in the auncient Fathers there is not one onely sillable and that as is said the Fathers do confesse that their vnderstanding and sence were too feeble to comprehend or declare the reason of such a my sterie As touching the birth of Iesus Christ the Ministers repose themselues vpon the scripture which saith clearly that the Virgin was with childe that she brought forth that shee gaue sucke and that Apertaest vulua the wombe is opened in the child-birth They adde that the same doth nought derogate nor preiudice her virginitie and purenesse which consisteth in this point onely that shee knew not not was knowne of any man Moreouer they say that in beleeuing the same they follow the scripture and consequently they cannot erre nor bee heretikes nor they likewise which subiect and subdue their sence to the word of God as in this haue done the Fathers which are by them alledged In the following article proposed by the Doctors touching the manner of the resurrection of Iesus Christ there is nothing but coniectures slaunders repetitions troublesome and superfluous which the Ministers by their former answeres haue largely satisfied All that which afterwards followeth in the writings of the Doctors are but iniuries and scoffes in stead of reasons and arguments which is the last recourse of contentious spirits who seeing themselues destitute of reason and vnable to giue place to the truth defend themselues by clamours and slaunders Some reason should the Doctors haue for that which they say concerning the word Aphantos if there followed Autois but that which the Euangelist saith Ap'auton sheweth clearely that the interpretation of the said place and vnderstanding of S. Ambrose where vnto the Ministers agree is better then that of the Doctors As touching the opening of the heauens the Ministers answere that vsing the language of the scripture which saith clearely that in the baptisme of Iesus Christ the heauens were clouen asunder and then opned when S. Stephen was stoned they cannot faile And to apply to the ayre the signification of heauen is a humane imagination This also seemeth should diminish the Maiestie of God and of Iesus Christ who is lifted vp aboue all the heauens to establish so lowe as the ayre the Throne of his Maiestie And there is no likelyhood in that which the Doctors say touching the being of two bodies in one selfe-same place and that which the Ministers say of the sight of Stephen which extended euen to the heauens for as much as the one is a myracle of the power of God in nature and the other a wonder against nature and the will of God The Doctors in the article following do falsly impute to the Ministers that they affirmed it was a thing impossible for God to make a Camell to passe through the eye of a needle for they neuer touched this point in theyr former answeres but that part of the sentence onely where it is spoken of rich men Now to answere too and resolue their obiections the Ministers say that euen as God can saue a rich man by chaunging him and emptying his heart of so much vaine trust and presumption as is therein and whereof beeing grosse and filled hee is vncapeable to enter into the Kingdome of heauen so to him it is also easie to make a Camell passe through the eye of a needle hauing circumcised and pared off the grossenesse thereof and other things which might hinder the same to passe ****** First that the Supper which is celebrated in the reformed Church is the true institution and ordinance of the sonne of God Afterwards that the end for which it was instituted is to assure the faithfull of the true participation which they haue in the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified for their saluation and in his bloud shead for the remission of their sinnes and for the confirmation of the new couenant which God hath made with his people Thirdly they say that it is necessarie that the bread and wine abide in their proper substance and that after consecration otherwise they cannot be Sacraments of the body and bloud of Christ Lastly the Ministers say that the vnbeleeuers presenting themselues at the Supper by meanes of their vnbeliefe can there no other thing receiue then the outward signes of bread and wine and that to their iudgement and condemnation The Ministers on the other side propose vnto them touching the Masse that such as it is and now celebrated in the Romance Church it is nothing but a humane inuention and tradition Also that it is a corruption and prophanation as well of the holy Supper of our Lord Iesus Christ as of the true and lawfull vse thereof Also that it is an abuse of the Priesthood of Popish Priests and that there is no other Priesthood in the new Testament ordained to get and obtaine remission of sinnes nor also to make intercession and by prayers and merits to obtaine the fauour of God then the onely Priesthood of Iesus Christ They say moreouer that it is a blasphemie and sacriledge but of the sacrifice of the Romish Priests and that there is no other oblation then that which Iesus Christ once made with his body vpon the Crosse by which the wrath of God could be appeased his iustice satisfied sinners reconciled to God sinnes pardoned and the hand-writing of eternall death cancelled and abolished Also they say that the seperation of
against his Maiestie and that with the sorrow and displeasure he hath for the same he cast himselfe betweene the armes of his sonne stretched out vpon the Crosse to haue thereof a generall and full abolition And that euen so with such a faith and repentance hee be prepared to present himselfe worthily at the table of the Lord and to receiue the good things which are there administred The Sermon ended the Minister recyteth with an high and audible voyce and his face turned towards the people the words of the institution and ordinance of the Supper together with a briefe and short declaration of the same That done he denounceth to all those not fully instructed and Catechised that they depart and to all them which are excommunicated or attainted with some sinnes or scandalous crimes whereof they haue made no satisfaction to the Church that they abstaine therefrom and pollute not the table of the Lord. After that the Minister goeth to the table where hauing taken the bread and giuen thankes to God he breaketh it and giueth it to the people there assembled And also presently the Cup to all them that communicate which being ended he giueth thankes to God and dismisseth the people The Ministers following in all these things the example and rule which Iesus Christ hath giuen them cannot imagine wherevpon the Doctors haue grounded that their saying of the Supper calling it a prophane and polluted banquet And they cannot perceiue what they could or would reproue in all theyr action vnlesse peraduenture they will taxe them for not hauing Aulbes stoles fanets Crosses holy water banners Chisibles tunicles lights Incense belles singing in a straunge and vnknowne language Musicke and Organes holy napkins Aultars Clearkes to answere Et cum spiritu tuo nor words addressed to the bread and wine which haue no eares after the maner of Inchanters nor the Crosse signes nor any eleuation of the bread and wine to cause them to be adored nor other like aperies of mans inuentioÌ„ and drawne part from Iudaisme and part from Paganisme The obseruation of which things the Ministers would make great conscience of because they be but Idolatries and superstitions whereby the puritie integritie of Christian Religion is wholly wasted and corrupted Answeres to the questions proposed by the Doctors touching the Supper FOr answere to the first question the Ministers say that the Sacrament in perfection considered consisteth in three things One whereof is the Element which Ireneus calleth a thing earthy the other the thing signified called by the same author a thing heauenly And the third is the word by which the earthy thing is deputed to signifie the heauenly and assureth them of the exhibition thereof that with faith do present themselues to receiue it For answere to the second question the Ministers say that the ordinance of God contained in his word and declared by his Minister according to his commandement is this word word necessary with the Eâ—ment to constitute the Sacrament and not the onely lowe and secret pronunciation of certaine vnkowne words addressed to the elements nor any vertue which is hidden in the same For answere to the third question the Ministers say that by the word aforesaid the signes bee chaunged not as touching the nature or as touching the substance but as touching the vse onely and that only during the action whervnto they serue For answere to the fourth question the Ministers say that the bread and wine which before the action of the Supper were common are consecrated in the Supper that is to say deputed by the said word and ordinance of God declared by the Ministers to a holy and sacred vse which is to represent and exhibit the things by them signified The answere to the fourth question sufficeth for the fift For answere to the sixt question the Ministers say that the faithfull receiue not onely in the Supper the gifts and graces of Iesus Christ as his tighteousnesse life and the other fruites of his sacrifice but that they also receiue and possesse himselfe and are made one with him no lesse truly and straightly then the members are conioyned to the head And they say moreouer that this coniunction is the spring and meane of all the benefites which flowe from the grace of God by him into vs but they adde that this reception must bee wholly attributed to the free operation of the holy Ghost which maketh vs fit and capable to knowe our Lord Iesus Christ with all his vertues and properties and in knowing him to trust in him and in reposing our trust in him to possesse and wholly enioy him For answere to the seuenth question the Ministers say that they reiect and reproue the word Concomitance and more also the thing thereby signified for as much as that hath beene the cause for which the common people hath bene depriued and excluded from one of the essentiall parts of the Sacrament namely from the participation of the Cuppe And they say that it is an attempt against the diuine Maiestie to seperate what the sonne of God hath ioyned together and to deny to some of his members that which he hath willed and commaunded to be common to all Ioyned that the reason of the Sacrament requireth it which was instituted for our spirituall nourishment The which as doth the corporall consisteth in drinke meate To the ende then that there be some correspondency betweene them two it behoueth that as we are fed with the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified So be we also watered with his blood shead for the remission of sinnes To be short seeing that the Supper was chiefly instituted to shewe foorth the Lords death and that in his death his blood was seperated from his bodie Meete it is that the bread and wine be there administred to represent the one and the other and more clearly to propose vnto vs all the mistery of the death of Iesus Christ For answere to the eight question the Ministers do acknowledge no other cause nor meane of remission of sinnes then the grace of God the blood of Iesus Christ and faith whereby the effect of Gods grace and the fruit of the death of Iesus Christ are applied vnto vs. For answere to the ninth question the Ministers do say that the faithfull comming to the Supper do not come thither to receiue there a new Iesus Christ with whom they had not bene formerly conioyned nor a new righteousnes which had not bene communicated vnto them And they adde that if some one did present himselfe there without faith for want whereof he should not be vnited incorporated and engraffed into Iesus Christ to bee partaker of his righteousnes life and all other his gifts and blessings that the holy Supper in that case should be as vnprofitable to him as is meate vnptofitable to a dead man But if liuing by the meanes aforesayd namely the grace of God the blood of Iesus Christ and faith he present himselfe
there in such an estate that then the graces of God be multiplied increased and more and more confirmed in him So that Circumcision brought not vnto Abraham a new righteousnesse but sealed and ratified that which by the promise was communicated before vnto him Which the faithfull knowing in what degree of vertue they bee yet ought they not to contemne the holy Supper nor any way to abstaine from it when occasion and meanes serue them to be there Considering that they cannot be so promoted nor aduaunced in the knowledge and feare of God and in the faith of his promises that they may not yet growe and profit in what estate soeuer they be by the meanes which God hath therefore left and ordained in his Church And impossible it is for a man hauing true faith in his heart to do otherwise seeing hee hath the commoditie thereof For as much as the nature of faith is not to apprehend the promises of God onely but also to engender and bring forth in the heart of the faithfull a will to obey him and keep his commaundements and ordinances For answere to the first Article which the Doctors propose touching their Masse the Ministers say that the Doctors do openly blaspheme Iesus Christ to authorise with his name and by his example such an abhomination And that they also mocke the Church the world in preaching and writing such Impieties For answere to the second Article of the Masse the Ministers say that there is in the Church no other sacrifice by which men are reconciled to God and which maketh him mercifull and fauourable towards them by appeasing his wrath then that onely and alone which Iesus Christ hath once offered vpō the Crosse to his Father The vertue wherof being eternall to sanctifie all beleeuers and to obtain vnto them for euer remission and abolishment of sinnes there is no need of any other nor that which he hath once offered be euer reiterate For answere to the third Article the Ministers say that they which approue the Masse and other Priesthood then that of Iesus Christ and wil establish for remission of sinnes an other sacrifice then that he himselfe with his body vpon the Crosse offered are Antichrists and abolish as much as in them lyeth all the vertue and fruite of the death sacrifice of the sonne of God For answere to the fourth Article the Ministers do alledge what S. Paul writeth to wit That where remission is there is no more offering for sinne Now so it is that by the death of Iesus Christ remission hath bene obtained for vs as by infinit passages of scripture appeareth It followeth then that there is no more oblation for sin neither in the Masse nor out of the Masse And if there be none for the liuing lesse is there for the dead For answere to the fift the Ministers maintaine that the Communion is of the essence of the Supper as S. Paul sheweth in the first of the Corinthians 10. and 11. Chapters And as it is carried by the Cannon it selfe and other things about the Masse For answere to the sixt the Ministers say three things First that the Popish Masse is no Sacrament then that the body of Iesus Christ is not there And therof conclude that then the bread and wine there remaining ought not to be adored which being creatures cannot be adored but that they which adore them be Idolators For answere to the seuenth and last Article the Ministers say contrary to the Doctors that there is not any thing in the Masse which is not either directly or indirectly contrary to the word of God The Ministers for conclusion admonish the Doctors entreat them not to depart as they haue formerly done out of the bounds of the matter now proposed for disputation To the end that these two points which are now in debate betweene them may be wholly and perfectly decyded to the content and edification of them that shall reade the Acts of this conference Tuesday the 30. of Iuly in the yeare aforesaid A briefe Reply of the Doctors against the last Answer of the Ministers to them sent by my Lord the Duke de Niuernois the first of August about seuen or eight of the clocke in the euening 1566. THe Doctors after their resolution giuen vpon the Artice of Gods Omnipotency were not determined to returne any more therevnto as hauing sufficiently handled that matter But the horrour they haue of the new blasphemies contained in the last writing of the Ministers hath incyted them contrary to their purpose although not to reply at the least to admonish the Ministers and the reader of this present Conference of the said execrable blasphemies which they are constrained to confesse that will not acknowledge the Reall presence of the body of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Aultar but dare therby deny the power of God himself The consideration wherof as the Doctors hope wil not only cōfirme the Catholikes in the faith of the said article but also by Gods assistance wil bring back many which are strayed separating themselues from the Church Catholike whē they shall vnderstand the detestable errors blasphemies which do follow the contradiction of the reall presence of the body and bloud of our Lord in the Sacrament Which also should serue for the conuersion of the Ministers themselues would they without passiō examine the reasons acts which haue bene proposed vnto them touching the power of God and sincerely iudge therof as resisting the holy spirit in stead of acknowledging their errors they are turned to all maner of reproach and iniury against them which of good will would admonish them and haue taxed them that they tended not but to roote them out Which thing the Doctors neuer minded and desire not but the saluation of the Ministers of all those that are seperated from the true Catholike Church Of which their preachings shall beare witnesse wherein they ordinarily exhort the people to pray vnto God for them True it is that they require the extirpatiō of the kingdome of Sathan and the rooting out of all heresies and peruerse doctrine rather by the preaching of Gods word then by all other meanes And they wonder why the Ministers are so pricked against them in their two last answeres seeing they haue giuen them no occasion thereof but haue taken it lightly for no other reason but because the Doctors haue written that many propositions set forth by the Ministers contained blasphemies which they should content themselues to denie or to proue that there are none and leaue the iudgement thereof to the readers without entering into such hotte coller seeing they professe to bee so much mortified patient and modest that albeit one should reproach them they would not reproach againe They should also well remember the faire tytles with which they honour the Catholique doctrine as with the name of superstition Idolatrie impietie abhomination and many other like yea not sparing
doctrine and why also it is called the Apostles Creed or whether it is because each of them added his part and portion therevnto or else whether it be because it is a marke and certaine ensigne of Christian Religion And as touching the same that it is a thing indifferent to saluation in as much as it hath alwaies one waight and authoritie be it that the Apostles haue written it or that it hath beene faithfully gathered out of theyr writings So haue also the Creeds as well of Nice as of Athanasius whereof the Church hath neuer doubted but that they containe a pure Apostolike doctrine as shee hath euidently declared in ordaining that the said Nicen Creede should bee publikely proposed and published to the people on the dayes of theyr assembly to communicate which at this day is yet obserued in the Church of Rome where that Creed is read or sung euery Sabaoth in their Churches And did it not containe Apostolike doctrine it should withstand the 59. Article of the Councell of Laodicia in which it is forbidden to read in the Church any thing proposed of priuate inuention but onely the doctrine comprised in the Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament the number whereof is there made The Ministers say further that the reason and principall motiue of the faith which Christians giue to the Creed is the knowledge they haue that it is the pure word of God and him that teacheth it do they also maintaine to bee the word of God as may appeare by that which S. Paul writeth who after he had proposed to the Corinthians the death buriall and resurrection of Iesus Christ which be the chiefe articles of the Creed and those vpon which principally iustification is grounded addeth these words That hee deliuered vnto them that which he receiued to wit that Christ died for our sinnes according to the scriptures and that he was afterwards buried and that he arose againe the third day according to the scriptures Iesus Christ also proposing his death and resurrection to the two Disciples alledged to them the scriptures thereby to assure them saying O fooles and slowe of heart to beleeue all that the Prophets haue spoken ought not Christ to haue suffered these things and to enter into his glorie And hee began at Moyses and the Prophets and interpreted vnto them in all the scriptures the things that were written of him In the selfe-same Chapter appearing after his resurrection euen before the Creed was made proposing vnto them his death and resurrection to assure them thereof hee alledged vnto them the scriptures saying It is thus written and thus it behoued Christ to suffer and rise againe from the dead the third day Whence may be inferred that for the foundation of faith and assurance of the articles of the same there is no better means then to propose the scriptures And although in the time of the birth of the Church the Creed was proposed to those that were Catechised before the Apostles and Euangelists had put any thing in writing it followeth not therefore that there were no other scriptures wherevpon euery article of the faith might be builded And to decsare the same particularly The article of the creation hath it foundation vpon the beginning of Genesis The article of the almightinesse of God hath it foundation vpon the 40. Chapter of Esay and diuers other places of the scripture The article of the conception of Iesus Christ vpon the 7. Chapter of Esay For the place of his birth vpon the 5. of Micheas and in respect of the time vpon the 49. of Genesis and the 9. of Daniel The article of the death and of the Crosse vpon the 22. Psalme 53. Chapter of Esay and 9. of Daniel The article of the Resurrection vpon the 16. Psalme The article of the Ascention vpon the 68. Psalme The article of the iudgement in Daniel 12. The article of the sending of the holy Ghost in Ioel 2. The article of the Church Esay 2. and Micheas 4. The article of the remissiof sinnes vpon the 32. Psalme and 37. of Ezec. The article of the resurrecton of the flesh and life eternall in Daniel the 12. By this discourse and places of scripture quoted it may appeare to euery man that there were cleare and euident scriptures to ground all the articles of the faith vpon before the Creed was put in writing and that men might ought to alledge them to those that were catechised to assure them of that which was proposed vnto them to be beleeued And it is not possible that a man can beleeue that hath not first heard and vnderstood the Word and that is not assured thereof and holdeth it as certaine and more also were it possible then things conceiued and comprised by Mathematicall demonstration as it appeareth by the definition of faith when the Apostle calleth it Hypostasin elenchon That is to say the euidence of things which are not seene The Ministers do adde that it implyeth a contradiction to call the Creed a doctrine not written and yet to affirme that the Apostles haue written it And they cannot shewe how long it was an vnwritten doctrine and at what time it began to be written And the Ministers are much displeased in that they which conferre with them doo not more propose the edification as well of those that bee present at this Conference as of others which may see and read the Acts thereof For where as they might handle and decide points tending to edification of the simple they stay on proposing and handling some things whereof they no way doubt which is as much as to proue a thing confessed and resolued on and to light a candle at noone-day And they assure themselues that they which shal read the acts of this Conference will not at all bee abashed because they decline to treat of that point whereof they be so oft required for that as Iesus Christ saith he that doth euill fleeth the light For conclusion the Ministers do protest to confesse and beleeue that the Creed of the Apostles in euery article therof is the pure word of God and in the faith wherof it behoueth euery faithfull man to stay and petseuere vnto the end So that they would no way receiue nor approue the man in their Churches that should denie or ought doubted of the said articles Reply The Doctors will proue that the doctrine of the Ministers containeth points contrarie to the principall articles of the Creed The first is against the article of the Almightinesse of God when as they say and teach that God cannot cause one body to be in two places The second is against the article of the creation when as they say that God not onely permitteth euil and sinne to be done but also himselfe doth it The third is that one while they denie and an other while they confesse for an article of faith that the Virgin Marie remaineth a Virgin after
that a Camell passed through the eye of a needle And yet is it saide that with God such thing is possible By the Ministers answere vnto the 29. article may easily bee seene that they deceiue and abuse their Disciples making them beleeue by faire words and writings that they really receiue in the Supper the true body of Iesus Christ the same which issued from the belly of the Virgin and was fastned vpon the Crosse for the restauration of mankind And wil make them to vnderstand that they who place not with the bread and wine in the Sacrament as they call it of the Supper but some spirituall effect onely as are the redemption righteousnesse sanctification life eternall and other gifts and benefites which Iesus Christ bringeth to his elect diminish the excellencie and dignitie of the same Sacrament and that they be Zuinglians But that besides such spirituall effects one must beleeue that hee receiueth truly the body of Iesus Christ in the Supper They hold neuerthelesse an other opinion For when they are pressed with arguments and cannot defend such an imaginarie and phantastike presence they confesse by their writings they are become Zuinglians and returne to the spirituall presence of Iesus Christ in the Supper which is as much to say as besides the bread and wine they receiue a certaine spirituall effect and not really the body as the Ministers do in the present answere which thing they make manifest by that they cyte of the Apostle S. Paul by which citation may bee gathered what is their opinion concerning the Supper to wit that the body of our Lord Iesus Christ is not really but by spirituall effect onely in the hearts of the faithfull For the Galathians by the hearing of S. Pauls preaching receiued not really the body of Christ crucified but had onely an imagination of the Crosse and passion of Iesus Christ and receiued onely the fruite of their faith that is to say by this meanes they were iustified and sanctified before God also the allegation which the Ministers make of S. Ciprian tendeth to this ende to shewe that in the Supper are receiued some spirituall effects onely which neuerthelesse by these words to embrace the Crosse of Iesus Christ to sucke his bloud c. be allegorically signified Wherein they denie against the intent of S. Ciprian in the Sermon of the Supper the reall prefence of the body of Iesus Christ The Doctors confesse that the argument they haue made is addressed to Caluinists and not to Zuinglians And they supposed that the Ministers would not otherwise haue thought of this Sacrament then Caluin Beza and the other Ministers renowmed to be Ministers of the Caluinist Church which they call reformed An other maner of speech vsed they which exhibited the confession touching that Sacrament to the Bishops at Poissy who freely confessed the body of Iesus Christ to bee really present in that Sacrament which the Ministers in conference with the Doctors do now denie And hereby the Ministers in the iudgement of the Doctors of Caluenists become Almanists Wherewithall they that maintaine the doctrine of the Church which they call reformed will not be greatly pleased seeing their principall pillars for not being able to answere an argument obiected by the Doctors do leaue them in the businesse considering that in the answer they say themselues to be so much enlightned with the holy spirit which maketh them vnderstand know all things Concerninig the article following they doo openly declare what their present opinion is touching the presence of the body of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament by saying that the faithfull receiue no more in this time of the Gospell then did the Fathers before and vnder the lawe But certaine it is that the Fathers receiued not really the body of Iesus Christ which as then was not made Therefore the conclusion must follow that vnder the Gospell the body of Iesus Christ is not really receiued in the Sacrament which the Ministers call the Sacrament of the Supper To the 31. article they answere not as also they neuer could answere the same and they must necessarily confesse that in the power of their faith they do that which implyeth contradiction For they maintaine one thing to be present and not present at one selfe-same time and place And their spirituall or rather phantasticke presence maketh nothing to the purpose For according to their doctrine the body cannot be present but with it measures locally difinitiuely and corporally otherwise the body should be wholly abrogate and corrupted And the maner of it beeing there spiritually would not make that the body is not there or otherwise they falsly say it is present in the Supper and abuse the world Wherefore it is necessarie if the body be there yea spiritually and their doctrine of the nature of a body be true that the body of Iesus Christ be corporally difinitiuely and locally in the Supper Moreouer for as much as it is absent according to their confession it followeth that it is not there present And to conclude the Ministers say that it is there and not there And for the full solution without entering into the principall of the Argument they suppose to escape by obiecting to the Doctors some words of the breuiarie which the Doctors haue not yet seene The Ministers they thinke haue found them in some breuiarie of Monkes and remember when they were in the Couent that they were so accustomed to sing and say But although such things were found in the breuiaries vsed in the Romane Church such maner of speech might be defended in the sence which the Fathers haue giuen whē they said that the Apostles Conficiūt corpus Christi do make the body of Christ as the scripture it selfe saith that they baptise forgiue sinnes and saue those whom they conuerted which is meant as the Ministers of God Who of his owne authoritie and as Maister baptiseth forgiueth sinnes and iustifieth the faithfull persons Where the Ministers do maruell that the Doctors call faith a humane vertue the great and maruellous effects it worketh considered the Doctors say that the Ministers haue no great cause to maruell thereat seeing that euerie worke in as much as it is in man and that he therein worketh together with God is iudged and reputed humane Also the scripture calleth the faith of man the worke of man The Doctors shewe vnto the Ministers that after their wonted maner they dwell alwaies on small things and leaue that which is principall in the matter being ignorant or dissembling ignorance where lyeth the difficultie of that is handled As they do in their answere vpon the argument proposed by the Doctors whereby they obiect that the Ministers by their faith call they it diuine or humane may doo more then God can do wherevnto the Ministers without touching the point do answere with songs In the 32. article the Ministers lightly passe ouer many obiectious made them by the Doctors Whether there bee
Tertullian in his booke of the Resurrection maketh after hee had disputed against them which denied the same to be possible with God And it seemeth they then said as the Ministers haue formerly said that there was something by the scriture impossible with God to wit that he could not lye nor deceiue and that thereof they tooke occasion to goe further and to dispute that the resurrection was to him also impossible So that the Ministers because God cannot lye haue endeuouted â—o inferre that to put one body in two places was impossible for him as well as to lye and deceiue Tertullian in the end accordeth with the Marcionists and saith Rather had I confesse that God cannot deceiue and that hee is onely weake and impotent in deceit to the end that thereby hee seeme not to haue taught and spoken one way and to haue otherwise disposed of the deed contained in his word Then if hee cannot concludeth Tertullian deceiue and abuse the resurrection must be beleeued as it is carried in his word and not otherwise least deceit be found in the word of God The Doctors say also they willingly confesse that God cannot lye nor deceiue and that it must therefore be beleeued that so he hath willed and ordained the truth of the Supper in such sort and not otherwise as his word soundeth and beareth Now so it is that his word plainly and expresly beareth that he affirmeth that what hee gaue with his hands to his Apostles to eat was his body deliuered for vs we must therefore beleeue that his word saith not otherwise then his will is least he be esteemed a lyar And that as he saith This is my body This is my bloud that it is so indeed The which the Doctors by Gods assistance will declare in the next Conference to shewe that he hath not onely power to establish his body in the holy Sacrament but also that he hath willed it and so hath done it Artictles proposed by the Doctosr for the next Conference and others following according to the order of the said Articles ALthough following the order of Conference touching the Apostles Creed they ought secondly to entreate of an other article as the Ministers themselues in the beginning of the Conference not onely accorded but demaunded offering the imprinted Articles of their confession bearing date the 1564. yeare from the first vnto the last to be examined by the Doctors Neuerthelesse the Doctors seeing it will not be much from the purpose after they haue intreated of the omnipotencie of God which extendeth to bee powerfull to cause the body of Iesus Christ to be in heauen and in the Sacrament in continuing that matter to enter into the probation of his will they are content to shewe that he hath not power onely but that also he hath wil and are consequently determined to refute all the blasphemies and heresies contained in their Supper which are called reformed to the end also they be not deemed to flye the list touching the Supper and the Masse as the Ministers haue reproached them Neuerthelesse they protest that their meaning is after the conclusion of this matter and resolution giuen to returne to examine the wonderfull errors of the Ministers which in number are many against the other articles of the Creed which thing the Ministers vnwilling that the Doctors should pursue the order begun do greatly feare as one may see and iudge foreseeing that in the next Conference an other blasphemie would be shewed them which the Church calling it selfe Reformed against the goodnesse of God after Caluins doctrine maintaineth to wit that God worketh in the reprobate the euill and sinne they commit which is an execrable Atheisme and no lesse then the deniall of the omnipotencie of God And they that can read these Conferences continuing to the ende of the discussion of the Ministers errors and of their religioÌ„ against all the articles of the Creed shall bee likewise abashed to vnderstand the absurdities and blasphemies issuing from the same An other point there is yet which inuiteth the Ministers to demaund tractation of the Supper which is that they haue the whole matter alreadie squared by many of their Sect who haue written of the same And chiefly the great booke of Peter Martir will not faile them Wherby they shal be furnished with I know not what infamous obiectioÌ„s of some passages of the Fathers broken depraued or euilly applied to impugne in shew the truth of the body in the Sacrament But for defence of all other their errors the Ministers are meanely armed and their conscience doth sufficiently witnesse that by the scripture decision of generall Councells and common accord of the writings of all the auncient Fathers no apparance to the contrary they are conuinced and condemned of their errors against the said Creed Now to enter into the examination of the Supper of the Ministers the Doctors do maintaine that it is a prophane eating and drinking not differing from common eating and drinking but in that it is worse that they abuse the holy institution of the Supper of Iesus and pollute and defile such their banket with all impietie blasphemie They also maintaine that the Ministers do great iniurie to the Sacrament of Iesus Christ falsly to attribute to such their prophane and polluted banket the name of Sacrament And to the end that the proofe thereof be more cleare the Doctors demaund of the Ministers whether they receiue one common doctrine receiued not only in the Church Catholique but also almost in all Sects which are seperated from it That is that in the confection of the Sacraments there be two essentiall and necessarie things the matter or element and the word Secondly what word with the Element is necessary to make a Sacrament and namely that which the Ministers do call the Sacrament of the Supper and whether it behoueth to vse certaine words or no Thirdly whether the word haue some power or effectuall working in the Sacrament what whether it worke vpon something in the matter of the bread and wine Fourthly whether by the same word consecration bee made of the matter of the Sacrament or no Fiftly whether by the word consecration be not made of the matter to wit how the same consecration is made and by what vertue the same is made Sixtly whether besides the bread and wine and the spirituall graces and benefites of Iesus Christ the true body and bloud of Iesus Christ in their proper substance and not in spirituall effect onely be really receiued in the Supper And the Doctors do demand vpon this article a plaine confession of the faith of the Ministers They demaund further whether in receiuing the bread before taking of the wine they receiue not by the eating of the bread the body and bloud of Iesus Christ or the body onely Briefly whether they admit that which Diuines call a Concomitance of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ They demaund also whether
the Supper ouer and besides the assurance which it giueth them of the participation they haue in the flesh of Iesus Christ for their redemption doth worke in them remission of sinnes Lastly they demaund whether one receiueth any thing by the Supper which he could not receiue without the Supper or whether without paine taking to go the Supper or beeing present thereat one may as well receiue the bodie and graces of Iesus Christ as if hee were present at the Supper The Doctors will afterwards debate the other articles contained in the Ministers last writing for as much as the precedent demaunds ought to be first examined as grounds of other articles proposed by the Ministers Moreouer after the confutation of the Supper of the Ministers and the confirmation of the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament the Doctors by order and without confusion will clearly teach by the pure and expresse word of God that the Masse was instituted and said by Iesus Christ and that he commaunded his Apostles to say it which thing then following the ordinance of their Maister they afterwards performed That the Masse is a true sacrifice of the lawe Euangelique That they which reiect the Masse and admit in the Church no externall sacrifice nor Priesthood are without the true lawe without true Religion and therein worse then Idolaters themselues That the Masse auaileth to obtaine remission of sinnes fauour and grace of God and that it auaileth both for the quicke and the dead That it is not an abuse in the Church if the Priest in the Masse do communicate alone when they that are present will not communicate That they commit an horrible blasphemie which call the adoration of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament adoration of bread and wine and falsly call such worship of the body of Iesus Christ Idolatrie To be short that there is nothing in the Masse at this day ordained and celebrated which in it selfe is not good and holy and agreeable to the word of God The Doctors do admonish the Ministers to answere to the demaunds here aboue written to purpose plainely and by order Sunday 28. of Iuly in the yeare aforesaid The Ministers answere to the writings of the Doctors sent to thē by my Lord de Niuernois the 28. day of Iuly about seuen of the clocke in the euening in the 1566. yeare THe Doctors reproach the Ministers in the beginning of their writing that in their former complaint against thē they immitate the Donatists wherein they verifie that which the Ministers heretofore haue oftentimes shewed them to wit that the most part of their writings are imployed in repetitions iniuries scoffes and inuectiues rather then in good arguments and reasons And they say that the example of the Donatists is much more proper to bee applyed to them then to the Ministers for as much as the Donatists would restraine the name of the Church which vniuersally comprehendeth all the elect and faithfull that are and euer were and attribute the same to the sole company of them which follow their customes and errors as the Doctors at this day approue not others for the Catholike and vniuersall Church then they which follow the traditions and abuses of the Romane Church Moreouer the Donatists did persecute them which were contrarie to their doctrine and vsed violence and all crueltie against them that they could deuise as Saint Augustine in many places doth recyte Now what in time past hath bene the rage and furie as well of the Doctors as of their complices Priests and hypocriticall Monkes against poore Christians each one knoweth And there is not he which knoweth not now both by their Sermons writings and conferences what is their hate and spight against the children and seruants of God and what pleasure should they haue to roote them out were theyr power answerable to their will whereby one may iudge whether they or the Ministers come nearer to the likenesse and example of the Donatists And whereas the Doctors adde that the Ministers cease not to bee blasphemers because they reiect and detest the name thereof The Ministers answere that the Doctors also leaue not to be false accusers because they disauow and denie the name And that the effects do shewe of the one side and the other to whom such crimes and names may appertaine and be attributed And touching that which the Doctors in the same article say that it is blasphemy against the goodnesse of God to impute vnto him that hee is the author of vice and of sinne The Ministers confesse it and do adde that it is blasphemy also against his truth to say that with him there is yea and nay as doo they which vnder a colour and false pretext to establish the omnipotencie of GGD doo propose that hee can cause one bodie at one selfe-same instant to bee in diuers places to wit that it is and is not Touching that which the Doctors afterwards say that the Ministers erre in the grounds of Gods omnipotencie for as much as they haue said that he was almightie because he doth whatsoeuer hee will and that nothing can hinder or with-hold the execution of his counsailes The Ministers answere that therein they haue followed Saint Augustines definition of the omnipotencie of God in the 96. Chapter of his Enchiridion where word for word hee thus saith For other cause is hee not truly called omnipotent but for as much as hee can do all whatsoeuer hee will and that the effect of the will of the Almightie is not hindered by the will and effect of any creature In that they consequently impute to the Ministers that they haue said the omnipotencie of God ought not to bee generally extended to all things which men may conceiue and imagine in their mindes The Ministers say vnder the Doctors correction that they said not so but that the almightinesse of God ought not to be extended without any discretion or distinction to all things generally which men in their foolish phantasies might forge or imagine Wherein to each one it may eftsoones appeare how they curtall and falsifie the Ministers words and sentences to haue meanes and colour for their slaunder Afterwards where they affirme that it is blasphemy to say that God can doo nothing against order the Ministers on the contrary part maintaine that to thinke and say that hee can doo ought which is not well ordered is to blaspheme the wisedome and eternall prouidence of God The Doctors pretend in the article following that one body to be in diuers places at one selfe-same instant is not a thing derogatorie to the truth of God The Ministers doo maintaine the contrarie that it should be derogate both to his truth for as much as there should be in him as is said yea and nay and to his wisedome for as much as in his words there should be disorder and confusion and by consequence to his almightinesse because