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A48300 Something by way of testimony concerning Clement Lake of Crediton in Devonshire with something he wrote in his life time by way of answer unto John Flavell, independent preacher of Dartmouth. Lake, CLement, d. 1689.; Flavel, John, 1630?-1691. 1692 (1692) Wing L186; ESTC R32449 16,488 34

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Truth against the Soul-destroying Errors of Quakerism I am perswaded if the Principles of those Men were but truly understood and the consequence that necessarily flow from them known to you you would with as much Satisfaction chuse to dye a Martyr in opposition to that Error as the Christians of Queen Mary's Dayes did against Romish Idolitry give me leave to say plainly a Quaker cannot be a Christian I mean a Quaker that knoweth and defendeth the Principles of that party and I can confirm it as strongly as I assert it plainly and will do it for your sake by this Argument every part and Branch whereof I am fully satisfied in If Quakerism Subvert the Fundamental and Essential Articles of the Christian Religion then no Quaker that understands and professeth the Principles of Quakerism can be a Christian But it doth so as will presently appear For 1. They Deny the Existance of the Human Nature and Satisfaction of the Blood of Christ. 2. They Deny the Imputed Righteousness of Christ as the matter of our Justification 3. They Deny the Resurrection of the Body and its Partisipation of Glory with the Soul 4. They lead Men to the Covenant of Works and Obedience to the Light within for Salvation All these are there real Opinions let them dissemble and hide themselves never so Cunningly I can prove it out of their own wicked Pamphlets I have had it from there own Mouths and that often and to satisfie you of the truth of what I charge them if you will but conseal the Paper from them and ask any of their Leaders your self so as they apprehend not your design these Questions you shall find the Charge Just and Real against them take a fit Season and Demand thus 1. Are we Justified and Saved by that very Blood of Christ that was shed at Jerusalem or by some other means then by the Blood of the Man Christ Jesus 2. Is Jesus Christ now in Heaven in a true and real Body of Flesh and Blood Or is he not 3. Is the Active and Passive Obedience which Christ performed here on Earth in the dayes of his Flesh the matter of our Righteousness before God Or is it something in our selves 4. Shall these very Bodys of Flesh and Blood rise again at the last Day and be glorified with the Souls and remain Human Bodys still for Substance though glorified Bodys for qualities Or what shall become of them 5. Must we expect Salvation by believing in Christ for Righteousness and applying his Righteousness to our Souls by Faith or must we expect it by Obedience to the Light within us This being done discretly so as that they see you do for Satisfaction and not to intangle them I am confident you will find to your Sorrow that I have too Justly charged them with those Damnable Errors and then the Snare is broken and your Soul escaped But you must have a care of there deceitful Answers and hold them close to the words of each Question else they will hide the hook in general and plausable answers But it were better for you to converse on these points with sound and sollid Christians that know their Principles then trust your self amongst them but if you must I doubt not but by a discreet management you may have it from the Mouthes of their chief Leaders the Lord keep your Soul in his Truth remember there are damnable Errors 2 Peter 2. 5. as well as Practices Give me a few Lines that may rejoyce and comfort my Heart concerning you for my love to you makes me Jealous over you I Remain yours in Jesus Christ our Hope John Flavell Clement Lakes Answer to the foregoing Letter I Have considered thy Letter and the high Charges in it and to begin with the first First That they deny the Existans of the Humane Nature I shall as I said answer in Scripture Language and shall take heed of Philosophical words because I do not profess my self to be one I look on it as a Just and reasonable thing due from all men that all proposals of Questions to others about there Faith and Believe of the Scriptures should be in Scripture Language I do not remember that ever I read of the word Existaens or Humane in all the Scriptures of Truth I shall take heed according to the Apostle's advice of vain Philosophy and shall ground my Faith according to the Scriptures of Truth in all the matters on which my Salvation dependeth I believe that Christ is glorified with the Father with the same Glory he had before the World was according to John 17. 5. and 1 Tim. 3. 16. He is received up to Glory and that he shall come again in the Glory of his Father with his Angels Math. 16. 27. And that he is sitting on the right hand of Power Mark 14. 62. And that he ascended up far above all Heavens And that he is gone into Heaven and is on the Right Hand of God and that it is a Glorious Body Phil. 3. 21. And if this make me an Heretick for believing as the Scripture hath said I shall willingly bare thy Judgment For the Second part of it That they deny the Satisfaction of the Blood of Christ. This is a false Lying Slanderous Charge charge it who will for my part according to what I have heard and seen since acquainted with them of all the sorts of Professors that I have been conversant with I have not known any to have a greater Esteem for and put a greater value on the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ then those do that are thus charged and indeed it is no wonder that they thus value it seeing a remnant have experienced such unexpressable vertue from it and benefit by it As for my part I believe Salvation in no other and out of him there is none and I believe and know it is the Faith of those with whom I walk according to Acts 4. 12. And he is the Propitiation for our Sins 1 John 2. 2. And he hath purchased us with his own Blood Acts 20. 28. and Rom. 3. 25. and by him we have Remission of Sin and we are Justified by his Blood Rom. 5. 9. And by it we have Eternal Redemption Heb. 9. 12. 1 Pet. 1. 2. And if we walk in the Light as he is in the Light we have fellowship one with another and the Blood of Christ cleanseth us from all Sin And what the difference is between the walking in the Light that is so much derided and walking in Christ I know not but if we walk in him the Blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse us from all Sin John 7. 9. And I believe not only from the guilt but from the filth also verse 9. And I believe that Sanctification and Justification are inseparable I see but little mention made in thy Letter of the cleansing vertue of Christ's Blood or the work of Regeneration that must be wrought in man or the new Birth that
Mouth opened to bear witness to the Truth of God that Christ is able and willing to save from all Sin and to keep us from failing if men believe in his Power and keep to it for it will be to all men according to their Faith but if men do not yea will not believe Christ is that he that can yea and will do these things for them they shall dye in their Sins and where he is gone they cannot come 3dly He cannot be a Christian that maketh no distinction between the Godly and the Wicked or Ungodly This Saddle best fits thy own Horse on whose back I shall set it look to the Epistle of thy Book called The Saints indeed where no difference is made between the Godly and the Ungodly the one so Confers Prays bewailes Corruption talks of Experience open their Condition neglect the watch over the Heart and does often fall into scandalous Sins as the Wicked do What difference dost thou make between the Godly and Ungodly Hearts except it be in this that one shall go to Heaven and the other to Hell tho they thus live no difference in the Life except it be that the Godly so called by thee are worse in their Lives for by their example they make fast the bands of death upon both the former are cruel and shed the Blood of other Souls fall often into Scandalous Sins and for proof David is brought He committed Murder and Adultery Did he fall into this often was it the Practice of his Life was not the remaining part of his Life spent in mourning and watching and warning against and praying against all Sin and did he not declare his abhorrance of it by his abstaining from it all false wayes he did utterly abhor and did he utterly abhor it with his Tongue and not abstain from it in his Life surely his remaining Years were far different from the Life of the Wicked and so were the Life of other Saints after their falls and therefore take this Charge home to thy self who pleads for Sin term of Life and Unchristian others who plead for purity of Heart and Life and a ceasing from Sin and a Freedom indeed by the Truth Be not offended because I spake forth the Words of Truth it is for the honour of my Saviour Christ Jesus And it is my Testimony that I bare against the Devil and Sin and the Pleaders for it that he can that he doth that he will save from Sin those that believe in him and come to him and receive him in all his Offices to them he will give Power to become the Sons of God and what is that but to cease to do Evil and learn to do Well And now for the proof of thy Charge for which we are Unchristianed and that we make no Difference between the Godly and the Wicked is this that Christ inlightneth Every one that cometh into the World with a saving Light I would fain know whether Saints be Born Saints If not but all are by nature Children of Wrath Enemies to God by wicked works as I believe they are Then whether that Spirit that strived with them and convinced them of Sin Righteousness and Judgment and brought them out of the state of Darkness Enmity and Rebellion and turneth them or leadeth them from the power of Satan to be lead giuded and governed by the Power of God be not the same Spirit that is striving with and in the Wicked to reclaim them and whether it would not reclaim them if they did follow it and obey its Reproofs Instructions and Counsels God gave his Good Spirit to the old World and others and doubtless willing and sufficient to save them if they had not resisted and rebelled against it it was Gods Good Spirit that was saving which was given to rebellious Israel but they Rebelled and Vexed it that it could not dwell in them and it is the same secret still Voice that cryeth after or in Man and Woman This is the Way walk in it Return Return why will you Dye But by Rebellion against and Resistance of Grieving Vexing and Quenching its Motions it ceaseth to strive and wo then to that Soul when left to commit Sin with Greediness And as I have said formerly I say again if in any thing thou supposest I am beside the Truth signifie it to me in a few Lines who desireth and prayeth for the coming of God's Kingdom in the Hearts of the Children of men Clement Lake Crediton the 28th day of the 10th Month 1687. THE END