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A16910 Demands to be propounded of Catholickes to the heretikes by Richard Bristow ... ; taken partly out of his late English booke of Motiues to the Catholicke faith, partely out of his printed Latin booke of the same matter. Bristow, Richard, 1538-1581. 1623 (1623) STC 3801.5; ESTC S1528 47,404 192

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question yea or no 16. Thinges vnwritten ordered If no Traditions ought to be receiued shew me where those thinges are written which S. Paul promised to set in order at his comming to the Corinthians 1. Cor. 11. for if all thinges were contayned in the written word which the Corinthians had receiued what needed S. Paul to promise to putt the rest in order at his cominge chiefly cōcerning our Lords supper 16. Church not inuisible Seeing Christ saith If thy brother will not heare thee tell it vnto the Church and if he will not heare the Church let him be to thee as a heathen publican and therfore apoints his Church to be iudge in controuersies concerning doctrine and maners how shal a man finde the church if it be inuisible And why affirme yee it so to haue bene seeing no recourse can be had to an inuisible iudge 17. Their Church how long How long esteeme you your Church to haue beene inuisible And during the tyme of the inuisibility therof if ther were any of your Ministers that preached the word of God administred the Sacraments in the realm of Scotland Also who they were that during that time opposed themselues to al heresies and confuted them seeing yee acknowledge with vs sundrie heresies to haue beene euen almost in all ages 18. The Sinagogue visible Seeing Christ hath reiected the Sinagogue of the Iewes erected and builded to himselfe a Church of the Gentills Mat. 28 which he hath promised to asist and maintaine to the end of the world how it is possible that the church of Christ against his said promise hath beene so many yeares inuisible as yee suppose Seeing that the aforsayd Synagogue notwithstanding the reiection thereof hath euer beene visible and is yet at this present in diuers countreyes so that by this your false doctrine yee giue vnto it euen after the reiection of it greater prerogatiue then yee vouchsafe to giue to the church of Christ 19. Tyme of decaying Seeing yee confes with your master Caluin l. 4. Inst. c. 2. n. 3. the Romane Church somtime to haue bene the true Church in what time age suppose yee that it decayed so that the adherents thereof by reasō of idolatrie could not be saued 20 Sucession of theirs Seeing God hath giuen some Apostles some Prophets Ephes 4. Euangelists and Pastors for the gathering to gether of the Saints and for the edification of the body of Christ which is his Church to the end of the world I require you if you be the members of the said body of Christ to shew your Doctors and Pastors who haue succeeded one another since the Apostles with continuance of any Vniforme doctrine as the Catholiques haue already done 21 Condemning herefies Why rayle yee so much against the seate of Rome seeing by that seate all heretiques haue bene conuicted and condemned hier ep 17. ad Dama s Aug. cont Pelag an euident token that it is of God And if yee haue the true Curch as yee alleadge shew that euer any of yours haue opposed your selues against any heresie before our dayes 22 Imitation of heretiques Why follow yee the footsteps of the Donatists who called the chaire of Rome Aug. cōt lit Petil. l. 2. c. 51. the chaire of pistilence Or how could it haue bene possible that the seat of Rome could haue withstood and prenailed against all kindes of perpersecutions since the begining and against so many infidels and heretiques if it had bene the chaire of pestilence as yee say The 23. Sacraments seales If the Sacraments be only outward tokens and seales as yee teache what prerogatiue giue yee to the Sacraments of the gospell Cal. l 4. Inst c. 10.1 aboue the Sacraments of the old law 24. Faith assures not grace Seeing yee teach that faith assureth you of grace receiued before the reception of the Sacraments how can you say but that they be altogether vnprofitable and can giue no fur ther confirmation For as much as where assurance of grace is already no confirmation is required 25. Value of Sacraments Why affirme yee the Sacraments to be of no valor except they be receiued by faith and not withstāding baptise infants who can receiue nothing by faith 26. Necessitie of Baptisme Why abuse yee the people teaching that infants without baptisme obtaine remission of their sinnes by the faith of their parēts sith the faith of the parents cannot hinder them to be borne in originall sinne Rō 3.5 Ephes 2. and to be the sonnes of wrath as S. Paul affirmeth 27. Preachatiue Baptisme Seeing Baptisme Cal. l. 4. Inst ca. 14. n. 4. as yee teache can not consist without preaching and for as much as no preaching was made at the time yee were baptised by the Catholiques what assurance haue yee that yee ar yet baptised Or what doth preaching auaile to alitle infant who wants the vse of vnderstanding 28. Baptisme of Infidels infants Why affirme yee with your master Caluin In Antid cō Trid. that the Sacrament of Baptisme ought only to be ministred to them who haue already obtained the remission of their sinnes Seeing therof it followes most euidently that infants begotten of Infidel parents should not at all be baptised because they cannot receiue remission of their sinnes by the faith of their parents when they are Infidels or vnfaithfull 29. Ceremonies of Baptisme Why reiect yee the ceremonies of Baptisme which alwayes a Dionis Ar. c. 2. c. Hier. haue bene vsed in the church of God since the dayes of the Apostles name what age soeuer you please Or how can yee defend your maister Caluin b l. 4. Inst c. 15 n. 19. who is not ashamed to affirme that in the primitiue church the right lawfull administration of Baptisme was already corrupted 30. Confirmation Why deny yee the Sacrament of Confirmation seing it is so clearly expressed in the Acts of the Apostles Act 1.19 who by the imposition of handes gaue the holy Ghost and also confirmed by all ancient writers yea and as yet retayned by the English Protestants 31. Reall presence If the body of our Lord Iesus Christ be not really in the B. Sacramēt l. 4. Inst. c. 17. n. 10. 14 why affirme yee with your master Caluin that in this Sacrament by the spirit of God those thinges are conioyned together which are seperat to wit the body of Christ which is in heauen with vs who are beneath in earth 32. Receiuing by faith Why affirme yee Cal. l. 4. Inst c. 17. n. 10. that we receiue the body of Christ really by faith if it be not really present in the Sacrament seing our faith cannot make that thinge to be which is not If therfore his body be not there really we cannot beleeue that we receiue it really except we flatly deceiue our selues 33. lifting vp to heauen In what scripture reade yee that which yee profes with your master Caluin
her Sacraments as well for remission of sinnes after Baptisme as of sinnes before Baptisme to the vnspeakable comfort of all that be heauy loaden merite in her workes force in her word power in her teaching so that shee breedeth deuotion turneth to Religion to the search of saluation strangely altereth the hartes of men yea her children therfore being the saddest sorte of people men of best order in all families townes and citties for all goodnes best beloued both of God and man And whether with the Protestantes all be not cleane contrarie No preaching of Penance no grace in Sacraments nothing but sinne in good workes although they be done in Christ no power to bring vnder Diuels no blessing no comforte And their folowers therfore easie to be noted by their ill conditions All persons as they fall from order and godlinesse more neare they become to their Religion a generall obseruation that all men as they returne to our Church bettered and amended as they fall to their Synagogue much worsed more then afore corrupted And yet be they neuer so wicked flagitious haue they Onely Faith and no doubt they shall be saued And what Faith I pray you Not our Christian faith which is conteined in the articles of our Creed and such like but a speciall Faith or an vndoubted perswasion that he is predestinate For who soeuer so perswadeth him selfe doubting no more therof thē he doth of one God and of Christs birth death and other Articles of the Creed he they say most certainly is predestinate and shall be saued and his sinnes are thereby remitted And it is forsooth a goodly comfortable way because it teacheth men to bee soe certaine But in truth and in deed if it be a litle examined no greater teaching of vncertaintie For say we vnto them not onely English Protestantes but also any wicked man cōtinuing in his wickednes may firmely persuade him selfe that he is predestinate and all other Heretiks of this time do so teach and so persuade them selues euē those two Anabaptistes also whō for dānable creatures thēselues of late did burne in Smithfielde How thē teach you that the said faith or persuasiō saueth all herevnto they say that such Heretiks and wicked persons can not haue this wonderfull faith because it cannot be without true doctrine nor without good workes But say we they persuade thē selues and they will sweare yea and die in it yea and which is greatest of al they know that they so persuade thē selues as who knoweth not when he persuadeth him selfe of any thing as of One God of Christ and so forth O say our Protestants and the like say the others of them to but they do not soe perswade them selues And where I pray you is now becom this great certaintie the matter being brought now to this passe that by their owne saying of one another no man can tell when he is certaine in so much that also of any one of their owne fellowes standing now in true doctrine as they esteeme it in good works and so persuading himselfe to be predestinate if he fall hereafter they must then and wil say of him that he did not afore persuade him selfe and so none of them all can say to day that he is certayne because he cannot tell what he shall doe to morrow Is not here then trow you a greate certaintie that I vse no other reason against this vaine sinfull point of their doctrine being yet the groundeworke of all theire innouations Well whatsoeuer they say euery man seeth that all Heretikes naughtie packes may and that some of euery sorte do thus persuade assure themselues And we on the otherside be sure that not by our only bare persuasion as they see by this Booke that none of them all so cōtinuing shall be saued And therfore best it were for them to confesse the vanitie of their new special faith and to returne to the Catholicke faith and so liuing through the grace of Christ in good workes to hope assuredly for saluatiō wherof now most vainely they do presume or rather in deed they neither hope nor presume but think verely that there is no saluation at all vsing therfore their owne religion as if they thought it and as it is indeed no religion at all as now at length the wiser sorte principall of the Realme haue proued infinite waies by experience of their doinges according to our Sauiours true prophecie Mat. 7. Ex fructibus eorum cognoscetis eos By their fruites you shall knowe them The 49. Demaund All enemies VVHETHER it bee not our Church onely which al the enemies of Christ do fight against conspiring all against vs as the companie that onely standeth in their way that onely beareth off their brunte specially all Sectes and Heresies for that cause bearing intollerably with one anothers blasphemies and as it is called syncretizing and tyed togither by the tailes like Sampsons Foxes their heades being most farre a sunder Iud. 15. and counting Turkes and Iewes and very Atheistes for their frendes and all that be not Papistes And therefore whether our Church be not the true Church and our Church onely as which only both now and euer hath bene of all maligned by Hel gates impugned The 50. Demaund Sure to continue VVHETHER our Church for all this fighting and conspiring against it Aug de vt cred c. 8 Psa con part Dō Chri. cō Gent quod Christus sit Deus col 1039 as it hath hithervnto stood vpright so be not sure to stande and continue likewise hereafter Or els how is it that the Fathers which in their sundry times haue bene bould so to say of the Church namely also of the Church of Rome that it I say should stand foreuer could not all this while be proued liars yea whereas they haue further saide that the Church by oppugnatiō should not ōly not be ouercom but also more increase therby and florish Whether this saying of theirs as alwaies heretofore so now likwise be not plainly iustified innumirable persons as well of our owne countrey that against all hope of man but to the gratious safetie hither to no doubt to the wise of the State so much maligned by the Puritans as of others also daily seing and confessing that ours is the true Church and ours the true Religion and the Heretiks haue fowely abused hitherunto their ignorance The Heretikes in the meane time partely by the conuersiō of such partly by their continuall diuiding into so many strange Sectes daily diminishing and as all other Heretiks before them going to nothing And whether they were not best therefore to put vp their pipes as Humfreie his wise Syllogismes in his Onus or prophecie of the ruine of Rome to holde their barking against the Moone and to leaue with Saul their vaine kicking against the pricke getting nothing thereby but onely the eternall hurt destruction both