to his fingers lest by his sophistrie diepe schole learning he beguile vs as the Serpent by his craftines deceaued Euah and turne vs not onlie from the ture state of our controuersie but from the simplicitie that in CHRIST M. Giffard as yt should seeme finding these Propositions as they were deliuered him al to hard and heauie for him hath sought to lighten his burden by leauing out such matter words as pressed him most sore and then would runne away with the rest as you see The words he hath left out ought to haue ioyned to euerie Transgression are these willfully obstinate as appeareth in the verie next words immediatly going before these 4. Propositions Furder in repeating vrdging the Transgression he hath purposely left out these wordes and imposed vpon them and in their places hath set c. which serueth not the tourne half so wel These words we can at no haÌ„d spare him and therfore must entreate him to add them to both his first and second Proposition which if he doe he shall then finde the fearful coÌ„clusion to followe faster then he with al his logique caÌ„ auoide For if they remaine obstinate and incorrigible yea incurable in their sinnes disobedient to the voyce of CHRIST skorning his reprof despising his grace refusing to repent hauing nether wil nor power to amend be their sinne as smale in their owne eies as they can imagine as litle as by their learned distinctions of Fundamental c. they can anie way make it yet it being a transgression of Gods most holie lawe bringeth death and being holden after this manner abouesaide bringeth euerlasting death and doth in this estate separate them from the loue fauour and mercie of God so far as we can iudge Ther can be no remission without repentance nether can anie be said to repent whilest they obstinatlie persist in wilful traÌ„sgression nor the Lord in that estate to accept anie offring at their hands be their offrings otherwise neuer so perfect and according to the lawe as the scriptures plentifullie witnesse So then if M. Giffard had taken the matter with him he should not thus haue altred the whole state of our PropositioÌ„ in steade of clearing it nether should haue had anie cause thus to chardge yt with heresie after his accustomed maner or to haue produced his scholastical or as he vseth it we might more rightlie saye papistical distinctions of fundamental errors and transgressioÌ„s Wherbie what ells should he inferr or doth he labour to proue if not That some errors sinns are as the Papistes saye mortal others not deadlie Or ells that which is more grosse That some error or transgression might be built vpon the foundation Because some errors and sinnes are of higher nature and offence then other or because that the best men and Churches may fal into greiuous errors and sinnes which as we neuer denied so we stil to the stopping of our aduersaries vngodlie mouthes affirme Yet hence it followeth not that because the best men and Churches that hold the foundation may erre and sinne therfore anie error or sinne is of the foundation or is not a transgression from the foundation The writteÌ„ worde of God deliuered by the Prophets and Apostels is the foundation CHRIST IESVS himself being the cheif corner stone Euerie part of the scripture is a like true inspired of God giuen to our direction and instruction in all thinges No error or transgression can be ioyned vnto or built vpoÌ„ this foundation no more then light darkenes can be mingled The least departure from Godes worde is an error the least transgression of Gods lawe is a sinne the rewarde of the least error or sinne is eternal death if the mercy of God and merites of CHRIST come not betwixt which mercy and merites belong not vnto the impenitent and obstinate Therfore they that obstinatlie hold anie error or transgression and wil not by repentance be purged from the same lose CHRIST and so hold not the foundation Now then seing Mr. Giffard hath a special phantasie to drawe this Transgression more then anie of the .3 Prinsipal Transgressions following into forme of argument because in his bad conscience he did foresee they would presse too sore let the first PropositioÌ„ be draweÌ„ into forme of Argument thus Whatsoeuer assemblies worship GOD administer according to an idolatrous Leitourgie imposed vpon theÌ„ and continue wilfullie obstinate in the said sinnes are not in that estate to be esteamed or coÌ„municated with as the true Churches of God But your publique assemblies in EnglaÌ„d doo worship God and administer according to such an idolatrous Leitourgie imposed vpon them and continue wilfullie obstinate in the saide sinnes Therfore the publique assemblies of England are not in this estate to be held or coÌ„municated with as the true Churches of God BVt let vs now retorne againe vnto that Argument which you haue taken such paynes to drawe and to confute in our names The second or minor PropositioÌ„ therof you denie vzt That the Church of England doth worship God after a false maner their worship â—eing made of affirming your worship to be the embracing of the holie Bible and by the doctrine therof c. Wel let the holie Bible be iudge betwixt vs in al our controuersies and let your writing shewe how wel you haue approued your worship in those perticular pointes which were recited reproued vnto you But in our iudgmeÌ„t you flee from this issue before you beginne in that you make so lardge an exception of imperfections waÌ„tes spots blemishes faultes which destroy not the worship of God otherwise you saye your Church doth worship God aright without heresie blasphemie or idolatrie Nowe surelie this is the odd onlie exception that euer we heard of Whie if al imperfections waÌ„tes spots blemishes faultes were taken away we durst ioyne in the rest of your worship to you or the Pope either The rest that remaineth must then needes be free and pure from heresie blasphemie or idolatrie It were a wonderful apostasie or heresie where were no truth especially when al corruption should be purged away But if you meane that these faultes thus reproued by vs and holden by you doe not corrupt Gods worship amongst you for the trial of this let the nature and qualitye of them be dulie examined by the word of God and we doubt not but a litle of such leauen shalbe fownd to make sowre the whole lumpe Yea that these spots and bleamishes you speake of being loked in that pure glasse wil appeare the olde runing issues incurable botches of Egipt which they haue deriued from their mother of Rome Euen of those malignant vlcers that are founde vpon the men which haue the marcke of the Beast and vpon them which worship his image for anie defence that you haue or can make for them YEt vnto the 4. apparant reasons
right deare and faithful seruant of CHRIST yet Sathan sifted him and he fell Yea we had thought that our Sauiour onlie had receiued this strength and defence against al temptations to sinne assaults c. And that al mortal men had bene dailye subiect to sinne temptation c that our reioycing might be of God and not of our selues and Gods glorie be shewed and perfected through our weaknes If these vanuties of the Bissops were true then might it indeed rightly be called a Confirmation for then such as had that were sure and sure there then to those should be no more vse of CHRISTES merites suffrings or mediation or of Gods mercye But because al men are coÌ„tinuallie prone vnto and euen enclosed and compassed about with sinne whilest they dwel in this mortal flesh and haue continual neede of Gods mercy and vse of CHRISTS merites suffrings and mediation Yea because we see wel nigh al those whom the Bisshops haue thus confirmed to be confirmed in al sinne and wickednes and euen the Bisshops themselues the aucthors of this deuise from whom al this vertue and holines should flowe fourth vnto others to be them-selues the verie synkes draynes of al abhomination corruption idolatrie superstitioÌ„ blasphemie and open transgression of al Gods lawes We are confident in the truth and power of our Lorde IESâ—S CHRIST to witnesse against these abhominable ordinances of Antichrist and against the Church of England for receiuing the same and maintayning the most impious blasphemous doctrines that ensue therof as is aboue proued TO the blasphemous Collects in your Sacraments Booke you wishe we were as weary in lying and sclandering as we should be to seeke finde out one such You haue in rememâ—rance the Collects wherin the Priest by th'aucthoritie committed vnto him doth absolue the sicke of al his sinnes You must not forget your two Cellects said ouer your deade brother The one wherin you praise God for receiuing to mercye his soule liued he or died he neuer so prophane blasphemouse and impenitent a wretch The other wherin you praye for him that you with him may haue a perfect consummatioÌ„ blisse both in bodie and soule Nowe to helpe your memorie a little furder we woulde desire you to consider better of that glorious Antheame you singe or saye in your publique Communion wherin with Angells Arch-Angells and al the companie of heauen you laude magnifie c Wherin we wil not demaunde of you howe whilest you remaine in the flesh you can haue such familiar conversation with those heauenlie souldiours and elect spirits of the faithful deceased that you together with them can praise laude God Nether wil we presse you with the papistical and curious speculations in making digrees of Angells Arch-Angells c. But we would here knowe of you howe manie Arch-Angells you reade of finde in the Scriptures And whether you knowe anie more heades of Angells then Christ himself Exept peradveÌ„ture your Church haue some especial prerogatiue froÌ„ the Apostatical Sea to make Arch-Bisshops and Arch-Angells Your Collect also in baptisme of Sanctifijng the floud Iordan and al other waters to the mistical washing away of sinne some saye sauoreth greatly of Poperye and retayneth the people in a superstitious opinion That the water vsed in baptisme hath holines some especial vertue in yt abâ—â—e common water especially wheÌ„ yt is thus blessed by the Priest and 〈◊〉 out of the hallowed Fonte c. But we wil not presse you herewitâ— nether yet stand to examine your Collect vpon your St. Michael all Angells-Day how you make Michael a creature and Canonize him amonge the Popes Saincts and worship him amongst together with all Angels This shalbe no blasphemie no Poperie in your Church Nether will we stand to vnrip your popish patched Letanie Or shew by what POPE and whie euery part therof was deuised and added And wherfore yt is good As for the quick the deade For al that trauaile by sea or by land For all weomen labouring with childe For all sicke persons and younge children all prisoners and captiues For Bishops Curates For lightnings and tempestes For plague pestilence and famine For battaile and murder and for sodeyne death c. All which things and what ells that you will request at his handes CHRIST cannot but graunt you when you so beconiure him By the mysterie of his holie incarnation by his holie natiuitie and circumcision by his baptisme fasting and temptation by his agonie and bloudie sweate by his Crosse and passion by his pretious death and buriall by his glorious resurrection and assention and by the comming of the Holy Ghost And sweetlie you entreat him by them all seuerally and ioyntely to deliuer you from the euils aboue-said and also from fornication and al other deadly sinnes In which Sofrage we wil not obserue y t you hold some sinnes deadlie and others not deseruing death because you peraduenture can shift it off with learning howsoeuer yt standeth in the Popes booke or they that made it thought of it Onely we obserue that this your holy Letanie is a most rare and especiall confection soueraigne good for all thinges at all times but especially in the morning and therfore it is so ofteÌ„ enioyned to be songe or said in your Church euerie weeke at their mattens Yet was there by what aduenture we knowe not an vnsauorie vnhappie Sofrage stollen into your Letanie in Kinge EDVVARDS tyme Against the tyrannie of the Bisshop of Rome and all his detestable enormities Which Sofrage because it was nether so Canonical or holie nether agreed vnto the rest could not be songe with theÌ„ in tune Or because it was ouer rough doctrine for sondrie of their weake brethereÌ„ that then loued yet loue the POPE anie thing that commeth from him with all their hearte Or ells that which is more likelie ouer plaine doctrine to make the people abhor all their Romish wares marchantmen The worthy Bishops most vigilant Pastors Gouernours of your Church to auoide these inconveniences of their pontificall aucthoritie dismissed yt thrust it quite out of their Lâ—tanie and vtterlie abrogated and razed it out of their Authenticall Leitourgie Wherin nowe it hath bene by these learned men corrected and this perrilous Sofrage thrust out it is impossible to finde ether heresie or blasphemie But caÌ„ there be more horrible execrable blasphemie then thus to coniure exercise Christ by his natiuity circumcisioÌ„ baptisme fasting by his agonie his sweate his crosse his death his buryal c what Coniurers or Enchaunters can exceede this where haue they learned thus to praye thus to dismember distort Christ or thus idolatrouslie to applie and abuse these outwarde thinges which he did or were donne vnto him in the fleshe Why might they not aswel beseech him by his growing in age his walking fleeping weeping c by his crowne of thornes the spondge nayles speare No meruaile
sinne or enormitie of the tyme without censure or controlement Nay these men are praysed incited and commended for this as the most faithful and godly which maketh both the sectes as well Reformisâ—es as Poâ—â—ificall yearne praise by this vayne and fight with one accorde for their kingdome against Christes faithful seruaÌ„ts whom they cal Brownistes as against a common enimie yea more bitterly then they doe against anie other enimie heretick or wicked person Onlie here in this tubbe if they can keepe their tongues from speaking against their Lords the Bishops their procedings or against anie publicke â—normitie in the Church or common wealth they maie then ease their stomackes against anie meane person or one Priest against an other and rayle their fill These perticular Congregations haue neither power to reproue their doctrines or to censure their persons be the one neuer so hereticall the other neuer so obstinate and needes then must here be a cleane Church I trowe And now how sincerely and purely these learned Priestes Diuines al the rable of them preach Gods Lawe and Christes Gospel to set downe their seueral defaultes ignoraÌ„ces corruptions and vnfaithfulnes were infinite Let the high opeÌ„ wilful breach of al Gods laws by al degrees suffered and vnreproued declare and witnesse to their faces Let their execrable Idolls and idolatries their abhominable worship innumerable deuises their taking the Lordes name in vayne their common swearing in euerie matter and tryall for euerie cause and triffle yea without anie cause their common open blaspheming and cursing yea transfiging the holy and dreadfull name of God in their anger and miâ—th Their impietie prophannes pride vanitie glottonie excesse idlenes riote playing sporting dauncing c on the Lordes day openly seene suffered vnpunished shew how well they keep and teach the first Table of Gods lawe in the Church of England And for the second let the euil nourture bringing vp of their youth their dissolutenesse irreuerence head strong and incorrigible nature yea their open disobedience contempt of parents and superiours the inordinate walking of all degrees helde within the compasse of no lawes limites callings in the feare and obedience of no person Magistrate Parent Master Let the common quarles frayes foodes tumults blood-shed murder man-slaughter the iarres hatreds contentions debates wrath anger enuying cursing reuiling nicknaming c Let the common and open whoredoms adulteries fornications chambering wantonnes daliance lightnes delicacie and softnes of apparle diet maners to deck prouoke allure their courting intertainement open and secret lust otherwise caled loue most rife as in Sodome Let their open robberies their secret theftes pickings pilferinges their open oppression violence wronge extortion vsurie their vsual deceipt and couen in all bargayning buying selling Let their common customable open and secret lving blaspheming sclandering accusing reproching defaming bringing vp carying and receiuing euil reportes one of an other their false swearing in testimonie their swearing and foreswearing to deceiue euen in euerie triffle And as for couering of wife virgine seruant house land cattle goodes insatiable coueteousnes and greedines heaping and hourding vp treasures contynual purchasing and adding field vnto field yea towne vnto towne till they haue gotten whole countreyes into their possession neuer satiate till their mouth be full of moulde these are the best and only esteemed Christians of the Church of England where coueteousnes is no sinne They that should speake against yt pride intemperance c. should iudge the heart and enter into Gods iudgment seate Let these capital sinnes and transgressions against the lawe of God which are coÌ„mitted without shame or feare either not punished or wrongfully punished murder only excepted which how also yt is wincked at or perdoned I wil not stand vpon let these I say stand vp to the faces of these Priestes Prophets being thus coÌ„monly openly coÌ„mitted in their Church and witnesse how faithfully and sincerely they expounde declare the lawes iudgmentes of God how carefully they watch ouer the soules of men and gouerne the Church that haue not against all or any one of these sinnes any spirituall weapons or ecclesiasticall censure in a readines So that if the Magistrates sworde which yet wanteth an eye to guide it did not represse some sinnes there should be no humane peace as there now is no christian order in their Church And now if I should here stand to diriue the seueral and speciall kindes of sinnes which as riuers are diuided and flowe forth from all these generall heades and as a deluge couer the face of this whole land yt were infinite but what then to diuide those riuers againe into their perticular droppes namely such perticular persons as commit the same yea such and so many perticular tymes as they commit the same who then should nomber them All these sinners and sinnes are in this Church by these Leaches these Prophets healed with the plaister of peace with the bloode and merites of CHRIST though there be neither faith nor repentance they are all good christians Likewise if I should here stand to relate and recite the falshode deceipt and hypocrisie of these Priestes let me here be vnderstoode euen of those best esteamed forewarde learned Preachers commonly called Good men how conningly and craftily they teach the lawe neuer touching or offending their auditorie at leaste the mightie or rich of them be their sinnes neuer so heynous and manifest especially if they will countenance esteeme feaste and heare these Preachers they are in them but infirmities and imperfections be they neuer so deiplie set incurable And againe how sharply they will inveigh against others which thincke not so wel of them especially if they be not of power to doe them hurâ—e nor of will to doe them good howe they wil speake against such sinnes of the second Table as their rich auditorie are not at al or least addict vnto and beate them downe as with thunder from heauen though they suffer as greate in them and their houses beforâ— their face vncontrolled Yea what fine shiftes excuses and veales they will finde out to extenuate excuse or hide the sinnes of these greate rich persons in whose houses all excesse gloâ—onie ryot pride idlenes gaming shalbe but good hospitalitie answearable to their estates honest recreation And this veale of recreation must couer al their heathen sportes within doores and without though it be all the day yea al their life longe though they drawe neuer so many idle beholders or idle assistantes to keepe them companie to followe their dogges hawkes c as their only caling profession Yea go these Esawites their wiues and children neuer so disguisedly in their strange prodigious shapes newe fangled aâ—tires with their infinite deuises curiosities it is but according to their degree sexe age calling with infinite such like Also if I should stand to relate the sondrie shiftes of these Reformist Preachers these sighers for reformation these
me the keper of the vineyardes mie vineyarde that to me I kept not The true interpretation whereof it here booteth not to stande vpon sufficeth that no antichristian yoke or bondage can from this place or from anie one worde therof be drawen and inforced But yet Mr. G. doth herein presse vs vvith these places of the songe in that the faithfull did not here separate themselues from vnder these euil pastors and gouernours as herestickes and schismatickes doe And this he againe proueth by th' example of our Sauiour and his Disciples who did not separate themselues from the high Priestes Scribes and Pharasies so long as the vineyarde was not takeÌ„ from them c. To which proof he hath in the SECOND TRANSGRESSION his ful answere To these places In the first the Church hath an absolute and direct commandemeÌ„t from God himself To goe foorth not to staye in the steps of that flocke to feed her kids aboue the tabernacles of those sheepheardes In the second we can but wonder to see Mr. G. so insensate grosse to imagine that these persecuting watchmen were Ministers or members of the true Church Especiallie seing the two Churches so liuelie in that place described The one malignant persecuting the other the true Church and persecuted Betweene which I weene there is as great a separation as betwixt light and darcknes betwixt hel and heauen Neither did the Church there staye with or was stayed by those watchmen but went to the Daughters of Ierusalem to seek and enquire for Christ much-lesse as this man doteth stayed in their fould in their tentes Or remayned vnder the gouernment and bondage of those persecuting watchmen that openlie opposed against Christ and could not endure that the Church should seek him Neither can anie thing be imagined more false or contrary to the argument of that heauenlie songe then that the Church of Christ may at anie hand beare or stand in anie bondage to the yoke of Antichrist Whose necke Christ adornes with chaynes and she againe her doore postes with garlandes for him Song 1. 9. 6. 13. Vnder whose heade CHRITES left hand alwaies is and his right hande embraceth her Song 2. 6. Song 3. Shee layethe holde of CHRIST and bringethe him into her Mothers house into the chamber of her that conceiued her There also is his bedde set vp muche more glorious then the marriage bedde of Salomon about which bedd sixtie valiant men of the mightie men of Israel are said to stand and guarde all of them handling the sworde expert in warre with his sworde vpon his thinge from the feare by might Song 4. The necke of the Church is likned to the tower of Daniel built for the armorie where a thowsand shieldes doe hange al the targetts of the stronge men And Song 8. Christ saith his vineyard is allwaies wholly before him he chalendgeth and gathereth al the revenues therof himself he diuideth them not nor imparteth thâ—m to anie other as Salomon or other earthlie Princes are constrayned to doe What part or right then what honor or homage especiallie what bondage is left here to Antichrist But thus they are broken that thus wilfullie of set purpose stumble at the worde as this man doeth YEt procedeth this graceles man furder And is not afraide to affirme That the Church euerie member therof is in some spiritual bondage to sinne and draweth an argument from this position That therfore much more may yt be in some outward bondage to Antichrist This execrable position and argument the holie Bishops and learned Priestes of England are coÌ„tent to let publiquelie passe from their viewe and correction because yt pleadeth for the antichristian vsurpation of the one and the seruile bondage of the other But when this argument shal neuer so litle by the worde of God be skanned yt shalbe found most heretical and blasphemouse For verilie if after our faith in Christ wee be now left in anie bondage to sinne then doth sinne stil liue and raigne in vs and we stil bounde vnto and with yt then hath not Christ fullie freed vs from the curse of the law Death and Hel. TheÌ„ was not Christes death a sufficient ransome for neither exteÌ„ded to al our sinnes neither hath he subdued or set vs free from al our enimies neither haue we as yet anie perfect peace or reconciliation with God And then was his comming vayne then can no flesh be saued therbie then must wee looke for an other redeemer or ells looke for him to come againe to dye for our sinnes that remaine and raigne in vs. For the rewarde of the least sinne is death being a transgression of Gods lawe And if wee be in bondage to sinne then are we not Kinges and Priestes vnto God Is not this a meete Minister of the Gospel that knoweth not yet the worck of our redemption the benefite of Christes death the priueledge of the Sainctes that cannot and will not learne to put difference betwixt the frailtie or pronenes to commit sinne which is in this mortal flesh of all the faithful and that bondage and subiection to sinne which is neuer founde in anie of the faithfull after they haue once trulie acknowledged and embraced Christ Howsoeuer the ministrie of the Church of England may allowe publish these doctrines yet are they most odious execrable to the soule and conscience of all that knowe feare or loue the Lorde IESVS CHRIST NOwe at length we are come to the second proposition of our argument or rather to the fourth TRANSGRESSION wherewith their Church of England is chardged vzt That their Churches are ruled by and wilfully remaine in subiection vnto an antichristian and vngodly gouernment contrarie to the institution of our Sauiour CHRIST This wee shewed in our first writing by the publicke and present estate of the Church of England in their whole ministrie worship administration ordinances ceremonies censures cannons customes Courtes to be antichristian euen the same yoke and gouernment that the Pope sometimes exercised by those his naturall children and vnfaithful seruants the Bishopps who nowe haue gotten this power into their owne handes Most of these if not all haue bene alreadie in this present treatise declared and proued to be idolatrous popish blasphemous false and antichristian wholly swarued from the rules of Christes Testament Anie of these howe M r. G. hath by the worde of God approued let the vnpartial reader iudge This their ecclesiasticall gouernment which nowe is in question he faith is the same in matter though yt varie in forme fâ—om CHRISTES gouernment Wherof nowe is arisen a great question in their Church Whether that Apostolicke forme of discipline which they prescribed to the Churches should be perpetuall or variable The Reformistes that hold yt perpetuall sue and complaine to the Parliaments for the same Apostolicke forme to be established and to haue this present gouernment of these Bishopps and their false hierarchie with their Courtes and offices
committed in the Church denijng to reason with you what is to be done in the Church till you haue proued your Church to be a true Church established guyded by the officers and lawes of CHRIST so that all your matter is but the fighting with your owne shadowe and flying the question in hand But my purpose is not to follow your gameplay either to iustifie the Donatistes or those learned Pastors neither to reiect the truthes nor maintaine the errors of either of both sides we haue a better foundation to buyld vpon and a surer word to trust vnto it is because you haue no furniture on your self that you set forth this shew and fight vnder other mens names Your sauour is lost if euer you had salt Looke on one of your Arguments how well it wil prooue your matter The Brownistes vse 5. or 6. places of scripture which the Donatistes vsed therfore the Brownistes be Donatistes Let the Brownistes answere for themselues but sure I must deny both Proposition and Consequence For neither do we agree in the application of these with them neither do we aledge all the same places because we alledge some which they alledged for excoÌ„munication of the open knowen obstinat wicked in the Church or separation from the false Church Neither doth it follow that because we alledge some places they did that therfore we are Donatistes If you allow anie separation from Turke or Pope you must agree with Donatistes in some of these scriptures Esaias 52. 2 Corixth 6. And in this your exquisit search you haue had one place alledged yet now which if you had well looked vpon you would haue bene ashamed to haue compared vs to the Donatistes It is written Reuel 18. 2. 3. 4. 5. verses c where your mother Church of ROME with all her Daughters is proclaymed no longer to be rested in or communicated with If your assemblies be such a cage stand in such confusion haue the same ministerie lawes worship c then we must come out of her Where in consideration that you would conningly turne away all places that commaund a separation by other mens expositions and haue not managed your cause in your owne name I will brieflie demaunde whither you wil maintaine these doctrines or no For the convincing whereof I shall either refer you to our haÌ„dling of the 4. transgressions or els gyne you answere when you deale perticularly in your owne name First beginne to set downe vnder your owne hand that these scriptures Come out froÌ„ emongst them Depart out of her Separate your selues c are not vnderstood of a separation both of bodye and minde SecoÌ„dly that the Minister being a swearer drunkerd couetous worldling c he continuing obstinate in his sinne in that estate may be suffred to administer and the godly may coÌ„municate with him in sacramentes and prayer Thirdly that it is lawful for the Minister to delyuer the parties to receiue the people to coÌ„municate with open knowen vnrepentant professed whoremasters multitudes of wicked Fourthly that open sinne may be tollerated in the assemblie Fiftly that when open sinners be common and such persons manie it were no safe to vse the censures of the Church Sixtly that ther may be a separating in heart and coÌ„ming out from them in minde with whome we coÌ„municate in the Church That ther is no polution participation or coÌ„municating with other mens sinnes but either by doing the same euill or consenting in heart to the euill and though they remaine in their open filthines vnrepentant our communicating with them in the sacrament or prayer or the priestes delyuerie of the Sacrament vnto them is no reioycing with them in their sinne no communicating with other mens sinnes no allowance or consenting or approuing of them in euill nor no sinne or transgression in vs. That they which are the Temple of the lyuing God and in the middest of a crooked peruerse nation apearing as lightes in the world hauing the word of life nothing can infect them which they tollerat for vnities sake neither are they put vp in anie straight because God dwelleth in them and walketh amongst them That to separat from such a peruerse and crooked generation were dangerous lest we should separat in spiritual separatioÌ„ from the good such separation were seditious That Dauid was not separat in body from the open wicked vncleane in the sacrifice in his dayes That Isâ—ias himself in one Congregation with them did touch the vncleannes which he reproued in the people That the Apostle Paule the Church of Corinth did tollerate communicate with such as coÌ„mitted fornicatioÌ„ though they repented not but continued in their sinne after due admonition That in policie for feare of schisme excommunication may not be vsed against open obstinat sinners but they may be tollerated communicated with of the godly That when he which for some notorious crime is reprehended hath the multitude his companion it is not healthful to reprehend or excoÌ„municat but to tollerat That the cause person of the tares being vnderstood of the open wicked and vnrepentant doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the wheate growing together in the field and whither you will interpret this of the Church That the cause person of the chaffe doth not preiudicat the cause and person of the corne being together in the same floore vntil the last wynowing the same of the goates sheepe in the pastures the fishes good bad in the net the vessells of honour dishonour The causes person of the chaffe bad fishes goates vessells of dishonour being vnderstood of the open knoweÌ„ wicked whore-masters murderers heretickes Idolators c and the field floore pastures net howse c of the apparant Church and make the inhibition of plucking vp the tares a coÌ„mandement then is not only the censures of the Church admonition excommunication c but the vse of the magistrats sword not only needlesse but vtterly vnlawfull to be exercised against anie transgression Let Mr. GIFFARD see how he is plunged in Anabaptistrie Athisme and blasphemous contradiction of the whole reueiled will of God for the cutting downe of sinne But let Mr. GIF or his Ordinarie in their owne name subscribe these foresaid Positions and he shal heare our answere We wil not confute them in the persons of dead men We then conclude this point thus that Mr. GIFFARD hath ignorantly skambled about the sinnes arising in the Church and the order of reprehension when all our question is of a separation from a false Church consisting of the world of Athiestes Papistes heretickes and all sortes of prophane not gathered vnto CHRIST So that he hath but fought with his owne shadow in comparing vs to the Donatistes in this poinct Againe al Augustines reasons are against separtioÌ„ in y e Church without discreet and orderly vsing of the power of CHRISTs by the censure of excommunication wheras you all confesse you haue no
innovating of his Testament examine which you shall soone perceiue if you looke but what CHRISTS perpetual ordinances offices officers and lawes for the guyding ordering and gouerning of his Church be prescribing euerie one their place dutie limites ioyntly seuerally and not finde your ministerie registered there but a strange Leitourgie and worship borrowed from the Pope which came out of the bottomlesse pit confesse your sacriledge in suppressing CHRISTS whole ministerie and ordinances and erecting an other for the perpetuitie of his euen to euerie naile and pyâ— The holy Ghost sheweth that only to be his ministerie till we be all a perfect body in him and his whole ministerie and ordinances a kingdome that cannot be shaken Hebr. 12. Ephes. 4. a commandement to be kept vndefiled till the apearing of IESVS CHRIST his Scepter an euerlasting Scepter the Sonne as faithfull in his house as MOSES a seruant in the Tabernacle who made all things according to the paterne So that it is to be woÌ„dred Mr. GIFFARD should think anie part of Christs gouernment should not be perpetuall that was giuen by his Apostles the master buylders and layers of the foundation wherby all actions should be tried to y e worlds end May not Mr. Giff. as wel cal into question the perperuitie of the Testament as the lawes rules for the gouernment of his Church Now if your whole false Hierarchie Offices Officers Lawes Worship be plainly other theÌ„ CHRISTS as in our other writings are proued and shame will inhibit you to denye how can you be so drunke with the cup of the Whores fornication to think you haue no constitutions lawes or traditions which are a part of worship and against such rules of CHRISTS gouernment as the Apostles haue prescribed for the ordring of his howse and the same ordeyned for all Churches til we become all a perfect bodye in him But if Mr. GIFF. wil shew himself so voide of al conscience and truth to say al their traditionall worship and Antichristian Offices and ordinances be neither part of their woship nor constitutions disanulling the ordinances of Christ yet wil be confesse I doubt not this kinde of worship and gouernment to be imposed as matters to binde the conscience being all the â—eruice of God they haue seeing hee woulde also haue all that obserue them not to be censured and excommunicat for this merchandize yt were a sore matter a man should be cut off from Christ and his Church gyuen ouer to Satan and the iâ—dgment ratified in heauen against soule and bodye for a matter that byndes not the conscience As though the soule bodye howsoeuer some things perteine to the one or is done by the one as proper worke thereof were not both to be counted wheÌ„ the conscience shalbe opened to answere for all done in both or by eyther of both even whatsoeuer wee haue done in soule and bodye and Calvine would but diuide the soule and the bodye in Ciuile causes But Mr. Giffard would goe a note further namely that in the seruice of God in such causes as the transgression deserue excommunication to be no matter bynding the conscience But it may be Mr. Giff. doth suppose that except the constitutions ecclesiasticall be such as righteousnes be commanded to be fought in the doing them and forgiuenes of sinnes and merit by them all is wel Then besides the other abuses granted he must be demanded whither those traditions of the Fathers which our Sauiour Christ and his Disciples refused to obserue were imposed as meritorious whervnto wee answere No For in the superstitious washings of cuppes of beddes with al such trincketts wee see to be no such matter Marke 7. and Christs words in saying they layde the commaÌ„demeÌ„ts of God aside to set vp their owne traditions doth shew wherin the sinne was namelie to do and obserue such things of vaine glorie superstition or custome as God had not inioyned them and to leaue vndone the lawes and commandements of God which sinne is your transgression at this day Reade therfore the 7. of Marke 15. of Mathew more diligently Further those superstitious traditions Gal. 4. Colos. 2. the obseruing wherof were the denyall of Christ were neither held meritorious nor iustificatioÌ„ sought by them manie of them being Iewish ceremonies sometimes as rudiments commanded of God now abolished and no further burden to be layde in such outward thinges no We reade not that the law of God yt self was eyther commanded or so obserued as to seeke righteousnes by yt Now then to the matter Mr. Giff. thinketh CHRIST and his Apostles did well in refusing to obey the traditions of the Fathers at the Pharisies commandement and so must confesse it lawful and a dutie of vs to refuse to obserue your Iewish cerimonies and Romish superstitious traditions which are so manie as euen your whole Leitourgie and worship conteine nothing els Gods lawes and ordinances not only left vndone but al that pleade for them and seeke to walke in them persecuted with deadly hatred And how Mr. Giff. will proue that there is no adding or diminishing to or from the word of God by imposing and creating more lawes then God hath made in his vvorship and gouernment of his Church but such as bee made part of the vvorship or bynde conscience or bee meritorious or against such rules of his gouernment as bee perpetuall though I take all your orders lawes vvorship in this compasse yet howe you can poue this I know not for looke againe vpon the scriptures Pro. 30. 5. 6. Deâ—â— 4. 2. 12. 32. and. Gal. 3. 15. Reuel 22. 18. 19. and you shal finde that to add superordeine innovate or diminish or take anie thing from the lawes of God already prescribed for his vvorship were to abrogate his lawe to laye further burdens then hee hath layde to make his lawe vnperfect and set our selues in his seate yea vvhatsoeuer wee put to vvhich hee hath not commanded or whatsoeuer wee inhibit that hee hath commanded is here forbidden For this saith the Lorde Ye shall put nothing vnto the vvord vvhich I command you neither shall you take ought therefrom that you may keepe the preceptes of the Lorde your God vvhich I commande you Deut. 4. 2. And that this was as well in the outwarde ordinances of the Temple as in the iudgments is plaine in the first verse Againe in the 12. Chap. 32. VVhatsoeuer I command you take heede you do yt Thou shalt put nothing therto nor take anie thing therfrom and in the Prouerbs Euerie vvord of God is pure put nothing vnâ—o his vvordes lest hee reproue thee and thow bee found a lyer Now the scripture speaking so absolutely and generaly against al addition or detraction to or from his ordinances Mr. Giff. ouershooteth himself of his bare word to contradict and limit so expresse commandementes for these scriptures saith hee are against adding of humane preceptes and lawes to bee kept as partes of Gods
discription of that sinne Hebr. 6. 10. where there is dispyting of the spirit accompting the blood of IESVS an vnholy thinge persecuting the light they haue sometimes tasted of and such like notes which are degrees further then presumption for there is presumption of ignorance of rashnes of hope of mercy and many times do the Prophets charge the people with rebellion against God so that all presumption cannot haue the curse maranatha pronounced vpon it or the persons not to bee prayed for But sure I grant that presumption is neere to that sinne and there cannot bee that high sinne without presumption But now if all sinne but sinne of frayltie were vnpardonable your Clergie were in a wofull case that thus maynely resist the truth and persecute Gods seruants Neither is this doctrine anye way contrarye to that I delyuered namelye that the regenerat man cannot bee sayd to stande in bondage to sinne after regeneration and the seruant of God at the same time by outwarde profession for none are in bondage to sinne after their calling to the faith to our iudgment but suche as contynue obstinate in their open knowne sinne after due admonition that such stande not by outwarde profession the seruants of CHRIST but of sinne and are to bee excommunicate hee willingly granteth and herevpon merueileth how I shoulde gather that obstinat grosse sinners shoulde not bee excommunicat which hee might playnlye perceiue if hee had eyes for if al the regenerat bee in bondage to sinne and so the seruants of sinne and of Satan howe should they cast out an other for bondage out of their fellowship by the power of CHRIST If Mr. GIFF. say because the obstinate is in greater bondage then the other this proueth not that the bond can cast out the bond by the power of CHRIST Againe if all bee in bondage then none can bee holden without for being in bondage to sinne so that none shoulde bee excommunicat none without the worlde and the Church light and darknes CHRIST and Beliall should bee mingled together To all which hee hath made no answere but demandeth certeine questions and maketh such a formal conclusion as if all were in bondage vnto sinne His questions I grant al affirmatiuely yet denye his coÌ„sequence Let him plainely proue therfore by euidence of scripture that all that do sinne are bondslaues of sinne and when hee hath so done I shall therevpon conclude him a flat Anabaptist in the cheif ground of their profession Verye gladlye therefore vvoulde hee leaue out the worde bondage and falslye accuseth and sclandereth mee in saying I holde that men can not outwardly appeare sinners and stand the seruants of CHRIST both at a time vvhich is an open vntruth Yt is hee that cannot put differeÌ„ce betwene sinning and bondage vnto sinne so that in one vvorde all his questions are answered If anie bee in bondage to sinne hee standeth a seruant thereof Now for the 7. to the Romanes the Apostle setting forth the strift betwene the flesh and the Spirit speaketh somtimes in the person of the one if I may so speake and somtimes of the other somtimes of the newe man or regenerat part or of himself so far as hee is regenerat somtimes of the olde man which is not wholly slaine but full of rebellion striueth for maisterie Nowe I must demand of him whether of these two haue the preheminence dominion and rule in the regenerat the graces of the spirit or the rebellions of the flesh The same Apostle saith the spirit and that part of the man renewed therewith which wee call the inner maÌ„ In the 8. Cap. hee maketh it playne The lawe of the spirit of life in CHRIST hath freed mee from the lawe of sinne and of death What is the lawe of the Spirit but the powre rule and dominion of the Spirit of God in vs And what is the lawe of sinne but the powre of sinne and bondage wherewith wee were somtimes led headlong by Satan at his pleasure but are nowe freed that it no more doth reigne or beare rule in vs vnto condemnation Againe whosoeuer are ledd by the Spirit of God are the sonnes of God and in the 7. Cap. 4. and 6. Cap. 16. knowe you not that to vvhome you exâ—ibit your selues seruants vnto obedience his seruants you are to vvhome you giue your selues obedient DAVID feeling the great assaultes of sinne in his flesh and his inhabilitie to keepe the Lawe of God earnestlye prayeth vnto the Lorde Direct my steppes in thy vvorde saith hee and let none iniquitie haue dominion over mee After the stronge man is cast out CHRIST beareth the rule ouer vs and in vs by his Spirit So the scripture euerye where pronounceth vs Saincts by calling Kinges and Priestes a people set free not that wee sinne not in thought word and deede howrely and daylye but that sinne hath not dominion ouer vs If then wee were in bondage to sinne wee are the servantes of sinne and of death which God forbid Where Mr. GIFF. therfore reasoneth thus the regeneration is imperfect therefore the freedome is imperfect therefore there is some bondage yt is blasphemie For first our freedome is perfect in CHRIST ells his death is not sufficient Then though our sanctification bee not perfect yet is there no bondage but a rebellion of sinne which if yt shoulde reigne wee were not the seruantes of CHRIST And while it seemeth for a time to reigne and wee obstinatly to cleaue vnto yt wee are iudged soe far as men can iudge the seruantes of yt and so gyuen ouer from CHRIST vnto Satan till the grace of the Spirit againe to our iudgement againe appeare to beare rule As for DAVID in the whole yeare after hee had commytted adulterye and murther hee neuer pleaded for his sinne when hee was reproued nor did no longer cleaue vnto yt Soe likewise though wee fall and sinne and bee â—edd awaye with sinne yet are wee not in bondage therevnto vntil wee obstinatly and wilfully giue our selues vnto yt from CHRIST which you finde not in the 7. to the Rom. but resisting of sinne a hatred of sinne a will to doe good a repentance and continuall recouerye of himself and flying vnto CHRIST Soe that your doctrine is false to saye the Apostle stoode in some spirituall bondage and my Argument still firme that these Ministers and people which stande in a professed bondage to a false gouernment their prayâ—rs are an abhomination vnto the Lorde till they repent and submit themselues vnto CHRIST and his lawes and ordinances Whiche the Lorde gyue them grace to doe euen speedely to depart out of the house of bondage and from all subiection of his Antichristian Hierarchie CHRISTS vnworthie vvitnes for the truth and freedome of the Gospell IOHN GRENVVOOD FINIS Math 2 4. Mar. 13. Psa. 74. Dan. 7. 9. 11 Cap. 2 Thes. 2. 2 Tim. 3. Reuel 6. Reuel 8. Reuel 9. Reuel 13. Reuel 17. Reuel 16. Reuel 18. Reuel 19. â—â—uel 12. 14 Reuel
1 Peter 2. Neither to be built according to the true Apostolike patterne 1 Cor. 3. But to consist of those monstrous members Reuel 9. Reuel 13. and of those prophane multitudes Reuel 17. 18. Remayning in confusion disorder Reuel 18. 2. And therfore not to be held the heauenly body of Christ but that monstrous body of that Beast Not that holy Spouse of Christ but that adulterous harlot Not that compact Citie that heauenly Ierusalem but that confuse BabiloÌ„ Furder to that faith life of the Church he speaketh of we confesse indeed to the stopping of his sclanderous mouth that so vntruly chargeth vs that no sinne or sinnes in anie Church or Christian can disanull the Couenant where this true faith is found But this we say that true faith may not be sâ—uered from true repentance euen of all things â—hey see to be contrary to Gods word True faith may neuer be seuered from true obedience of whatsoeuer is shewed to be the will of God in his word Faith without workes is dead Now then to the faith of the Church of England we finde yt without workes we find yt without repentance In their worckes as the Apostle saith they denye God howsoeuer in words they confesse him in their deeds they are abhominable vnperswaded to euerie good worke howsoeuer they make a shew of godlynes they denye the power therof Yea so far are they from suffring their workes to burne being shewed and reproued vnto them by the word of God as they smite persecute and blaspheme with all hostilitie and reproch those that but shew and reproue their sinnes How then should they be thought to haue this true faith this true life in them But the faith of their Church remaineth to be furder examined discussed in this Booke whither I refer for furder triall And now if this verbal faith confession of iustification by CHRIST only make a Church a Christian though they erre transgresse in manie yea in anie other thing as the life doth make a man c how may we that professe this faith make this confession be by M. Giffard accused pronounced coÌ„demned divulged as damnable Heretikes Brownists Seâ—ismaticks c Shall this faith giue life vnto them and not vnto vs Or will he slay them that Christ gyueth life vnto And that before anie due conviction of anie one error or transgression deseruing these hard censures sentences May he not euill accuse vs of rash furious disorderly dealing that thus vncharitably accuseth condempneth smiteth before anie triall Yea that thus presumptuously runneth before and forestalleth the iudgment of their owne Church pronouncing divulging vs damnable heretikes schismatickes before their Church had detected convinced reiected vs for anie one errot As to the heresies he accuseth vs of Namely to hould an 〈◊〉 perfectioÌ„ in this life immunitie froÌ„ sinne from the superior powers y t God hath set ouer vs. When he shall be able to shew by anie one sentence in our writings or but necessarily to infer from the same that we hould these heresies Let vs then be held such and M. Giâ—â—ard no accuser and sclanderer But if the contrarie appeare in all our writings and doings then is it euident that he hath most maliciouslie sclandered vs to bring vs in hatred with our souereigne Queene the whole Land We may euill be accused to hould the error of perfectioÌ„ for blaming their Church for such heynous transgressions Or of Anabaptisticall freedoÌ„ for not being subiect to their antichristian yoake Or for vsing the 4 5 Chap. of the Epistle to the Gaâ—â—at against their burdenous and vngodly traditions These causes scriptures wil not beare vp M. G. his malicious suspicions chardges Neither if we held these detestable heresies could our sinns or errors either excuse or lessen these traÌ„sgressions of theirs It is a bad foundation to build his credit vpon the ruines of other mens especially by such detraction sclander The Schisme he chargeth vs with hath as litle ground or colour of truth We willed him long since to proue these Parish Assemblies in this estate true established Churches and then we would shew him how free we are of schisme We depart not from anie part of the truth or from anie that will walke holily orderly in the same The causeâ— of our seperation from these Parish assemblies we haue shewed to be such as proue them no true established Churches of Christ or such where the faithfull may abide with anie promise or comfort In seperating from them then we haue not rent our selues from the Church or body of Christ but rather seperated the Church from them and obeyed the commandement of God that calleth vs out from emongst them Againe whilest M. GIFF. standeth so much vpon the name of a Church and giueth the same to the Romish Syâ—â—gog in their deepest apostasie how will he escape himselfe or cleare the Church of England from the blot of Schisme for seperating and withdrawing from the Church of Rome Anie excuse that he can make or deuise wil cleare vs as wel as theselues Let him looke therfore to y e measure he meateth lest it be measured vnto him againe with the same not oÌ„ly in this matter of Schisine but euen in that especial poinct of Donatisâ—rie which he of a singular iudgment aboue all others of this time hath espied out and taken no small paines to compare and liken vs vnto them from poinct to poinct Forgetting in this heate of zeale and acuâ—â—inat pregnacie of his how the Papistes haue coÌ„tinually battred them with the â—ame ordinance with much greater aduantage then he hath vs In asmuch as he confesseth the Church of Rome the true established Church of Christ with the true ministri and true seale of the Couenant c And in that they still reteine the same ministrie Gouernment Courtes Officers Canons Orders Parishes People Synagogs c that the Papiâ—tes vsed left in this Land as the Douatists did Wheras we on the contrarie do not seperate for the same causes neither doo iustifie or reteine the same ministrie worship Leitourgie Officers Ordinances Gouernment Parishes Synagogs that they vse c as the Donatists did Neither do we hold such errors concerning the Magistrates or ministrie c as the Donatists did as is here more perticularly shewed in a peculiar treatise whither I refer Only here obseruing how the malicious man still by the iust iudgment of God falleth into the same pitte which he digged for the innocent For whilest he would accuse vs to derogate from the Princes authoritie in not allowing her to make lawes for the Church And greatly to blemish her â—ame diminish her loue emongest her subiects whilest we denie these Parishes to be true established Churches of Christ He himself layeth vpoÌ„ her al these popish trumperies idolatrous reliques antichristian enormities abuses of their church and distaineth her
the faith or had made profession therof where they haue not the true ministrie of CHRIST but a strange antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them vvhere they haue not the gouernement of CHRIST but of Antichrist ouer them where their administration worship is not after the Gospel of CHRIST but after their popish idolatrous Leitourgie Al this may safely be defended without falling into anie such inconvenience as M r. Giffard threatneth AS to the heresie he speaketh of we doubt not nether euer thought but the best Church that consisteth of mortall men may fall ether of negligence or of ignorance into greiuous offences and dangerous errors Yea we doubt not but that some famous Churches Christians may fall into such errors as he termeth fundamentall the holding wherof should vtterly subuert the faith As in the Church of Corinth Galatia Asia there where that denied the resurrectioÌ„ That reuiued the Ceremonial â—awes That held the doctrines of Balaam and Nicholas But this we hold withal that no true Church or Christian will maintaine anie sinne or error wheÌ„ yt is euidentlie shewed coÌ„vinced vnto them by the worde of God much lesse persecute such as reproue admonished them as you doe Or if they doe whilest they remaine in that estate they are not of vs to be held the true Churches of CHRIST TO your second chardge we answeare That we haue learned to put difference betwixt error heresie All good men as is said doo may erre but no good man wil defend or persist in his error when yt is shewed and conuinced vnto him Obstinacie ioyned vnto error after yt is dulie convinced maketh heresie Furder we say That anie error being obstinatly holden and taught after it is duelie convinced reproued vnto him maketh an hereticke and heresie in that partie or in that Congregation that so holdeth and teacheth it and doth separate from the faith communion of Christ. Wherfore we can but wonder at your ignorance who staÌ„d for a Teacher in your church and yet hold some errors obstinatlie held taught against the truth of God not to be heresies or at the least not to be fundamental though you see by expresse rule euerie hereticke after one and the second admonition to be shunned Yet say we not that though euerie error thus obstinatlie held be heresie and euerie transgressioÌ„ against the lawe be sinne that therfore all sinnes are equal or all errors of like indignitie The lawe and iudgments of God teach vs to put difference NEther is ther cause whie you should chardge vs or we confesse our selues guiltie of pride presumption intrusion into Godes iudgment seat for condemning those assemblies which the whole worde of God condemneth in all their doings Greater is your pride presumption c that in this maner condemne and blaspheme the truth and seruantes of God for reprouing your sinnes that thus plead for and coulor these filthie abhominations of your Church which are most odious to euerie good conscience But this knowe for certaine howsoeuer the Shipmasters Maryners and Marchantmen of these wares howle and crye out howsoeuer the false Prophet labour to gilde and adorne the false Church with the iewells ornamentes and titles that belong to the true Church how much soeuer the Harlot doe glorifie her self and say in her heart that she sitteth as a Queene and is no widowe and shall see no sorrowe Yet shal her plagues come in one daye death and sorrowe and famine and she shalbe burnt with fire because the God that condemneth her is a strong Lorde IN that you chardge vs with the breach of the rule Math. 18. vnto you this still proceedeth of your former vayne conceipt arrogating vnto your Churches such names titles prerogatiues duties as belong and are only giuen to the true Churches of CHRIST Not being able noâ— endeuouring to approue your Churches by the Testament of Christ although you were often required and vrged by vs so to doe wherby all contention should soone haue ceased you beene cleared iustified we iustlie conuict and chardged In the meane while we affirme vnto you That these golden rules onlie belong vnto the true Churâ—h of CHRIST and that the Court without the Temple vvhich is giuen to the Gentiles is to be cast out and not to be measured The Cannons of the POPE which your Church imbraceth more fitly agree vnto you then the rules of Christs Gospel which your Church reiecteth and blasphemeth But that we maie the sooner see our fault shew vs we pray you how we might execute this rule vnto you how we might tel yt to your Church how we might be heard and haue redresse For if by your Church you meane the ConvocatioÌ„ house you see how they haue often openly reiected this sute If you meane by your Church the Bishops whom you cal the cheif gouernours of your Church you see they blaspheme this truth caling the order of Christs gouernmeÌ„t intollerable daÌ„gerous to the subuertion of Prince state they hate persecute imprison al that speake for or seek the same But if nowe you meane by Churches your Parish Churches alas you see they want power they can mend nothing be yt neuer so heinous or hereticall they must receaue what their Lordes the Bisshops impose and endure til they redresse How then to whom or to what end would you haue vs complaine vnto your Church in this estate Or with what equitie and conscience can you thus reuile and coÌ„demne vs for breaking Christs order towardes your Church when you see your Church wil not be subiect vnto Christes order but persecuteth vs and al such as reproue their faultes and seek to doo Christes will because their worckes are euil and wil not endure the light when they are neuer so litle examined therbye As shal furder appeare but by a cursorie touching of these principal transgressions following THE FIRST PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION VVHERVVITH YOVR CHVRCHES ARE CHARDGED IS THAT they worship GOD after a false maner Their worship being made of the invention of man euen of that man of sinne erroneous and imposed vpon them We leaue your first answeare vnto this Transgression and our replie vpon your said answeare to be pervsed and compared by the indifferent Reader and now addresse our selues vnto this your second defence FIrst to make our aâ—cusatioÌ„ his answere more cleare M r. GIF traÌ„slateth our PropositioÌ„ into a Sylogisme thus VVhatsoeuer assemblies worship the true GOD after a false maner their vvorship being made of the inveÌ„tion of maÌ„ euen of the maÌ„ of sinne c the same are not the true Churches of GOD. But th' assemblies as they generallie staÌ„d in England doe vvorship the true GOD after a false maner their vvorship being made of the inventioÌ„ of man c Therfore the assemblies of EnglaÌ„d be not the true Churches of GOD. We finde M r. Giffard so ful of legier du main that we had neede looke narrowlie
in subiection ANd now this aucthor not being able to iustifie the publique excommunicatioÌ„ of their Church of England seketh to withdrawe vs from the present question by mouing two newe questions And from those after his accustomed maner laboureth to confute vs. Because the Assumption euen as he himself with longe studie had changed contriued and framed yt could not yet serue his tourne His first questioÌ„ is this If the Bishop with sondrie other Ministers of the Gospel do dulie excoÌ„municate an obstinate wicked man is he not excommunicate before God We first answeare That the Bishop or the Church of EnglaÌ„d doth not excommunicat for anie wickednes or crime whatsoeuer be yt neuer so heynous though obstinacie be ioyned thervnto as for Adulterie murder witchcraft c but only for contempt of their Courtes for not appearing or not paying their exactioÌ„s The we answeare that the Bishop neuer caleth anie other Ministers to this actioÌ„ of excoÌ„munication Furder we answeare that this Lorde Bishop is no Minister of the Gospel or Church of Christ and therfore he hath nothing to do with th' excommunication of anie member of the visible Church Neither may or wil anie true Ministers of the Gospel ioyne vnto the Bishop in this busines But if they should we say that such excommunication is not allowed before God because it is founde contrary vnto his worde Yet this we say that the obstinate wicked are bounde and excommunicate before God whilest they continue in y t estate albeit the Church here should neglect or refuse to cast them out For the iudgments of God do neither take effect by man neither depend vpon man or stay of man but the iudgments decreed are accomplished and the wrath of God is reueled from heauen against al impietie and vnrighteousnes of men that are contentious disobey the truth Finally though it were admitted which can neuer be proued that the Bishop and these Priestes were true Ministers of the Gospel yet wee say that this excommunication donne by them in their priuate assemblie or consistorie as they cal yt is contrarie to the rules of Christs Testament and vnlawful For there we finde this power committed giueÌ„ vnto the whole Church by our Sauiour Christ who sendeth al meÌ„ to tel the Church Math. 18. 17. There we finde the execution and publishing of this performed in by the Church 1 Cor. 5. We find also the remitting receauing in againe of such excommunicate to belong to be referred vnto the whole Church 2 Cor. 2. 6. 7. 8. Furder we there finde the iudgmeÌ„ts of God denownced against y e whole Church and euerie member of that Church where this censure of excommunicating the wicked is neglected reiected 1 Cor. 5. 2. 6. To these if we add the peculiar interest that euerie member hath in the worde doctrine and faith of Christ and in al the publique actions of the Church As also the perticular dueties that euerie member oweth vnto the whole Church together with the sondrie charges exhortatioÌ„s euerie where in the Scriptures giuen them to watch to admonish to exhorte and that not onlie the priuate members but eueÌ„ the greatest officers of the Church To marcke them diligently that cause diuisions offences coÌ„trarie to the doctrine that they haue learned and to auoide them Rom. 16. 17. 2 Iohn 10 To take heed what and whom they heare To hold such accursed be they men or Angels that preach vnto theÌ„ besides that they haue receaued Gal. 1. 9. To admonish Archippus Col 4. 17. To withdrawe themselues from euerie brother that walketh inordinately and not according to the tradition they haue receaued 2. Thess. 3. 6. To note such as abey not the worde and not to be coÌ„mingled with them that they may be ashamed 2 Thess. 3. 14. Yf their brethren sinne to rebuke them if they repent to forgiue them if not to retaine their sinne Luke 17. 3. 4. And to procede according to the rule Math. 18. 15. 16. 17. These perticular dueties chardges dulie considered there can be no doubte but euerie christiaÌ„ is a Kingâ— Priest vnto God to spie out censure cut downe sinne as yt ariseth with that two edged sworde that proceedeth out of Christs mouth As also that th'excommunication of anie member belongeth to the whole Congregation the whole bodie together seing al the members haue like interest each in other c Albeit the Church thus assembled be to vse the help or Ministerie of the most fit member for the pronowncing of this excommunication c. HEre then fal to the grounde those 4. false interpretations of Math. 18. 17. Tel the Church 1. Some vnderstanding by the Church the Pope who they say is Christes Vicare general and supreame head of the Church 2. Others would vnderstand it of the Lord Arch-Bishops grace or of the Lord Bishops who apart may excommunicate absolue for the whole church 3. Some others there are that vnderstaÌ„d by this word Church the companie of Elders aparte from and without the people which companie they cal the Consistorie and this ought to excommunicate c. 4. The last sorte are in a quite coÌ„trarie extremitie and these would haue the people without the Elders to excommunicate elect c and that by pluralitie of voyces THe two first sortes depend of one lyne and builde their prehemineÌ„ce vpoÌ„ the promise made to the Apostle Peter Mat. 16. 18. 19. where the keyes of the kingdoÌ„ of Heauen are giueÌ„ him And vpon the Apostle Paule his example who deliuered Himeneus Alexander vnto Sathan 1 Tiâ—oth 1. 20. They bring also the commaundement of Paule vnto Timoâ—hy To rebuke the Elders that sinne opeÌ„ly 1. Tim. 5. â—0 and the commaÌ„demeÌ„t vnto Titus to reiect an hereticke Titus 3. 10. Touching the power of the keyes we haue aboue in the handling of the Priestes absolution shewed yt not to depeÌ„d vpoÌ„ the dignitie of meÌ„s persons or offices but vpoÌ„ the vertue truth of God his worde from which wheÌ„ Peter or the Pope himself departeth his worde not onlie bindeth not but is lyable vnto reprofe bownd by the worde Which worde is giueÌ„ not to Peter onlie but to the whole Church that is builte vpon that rocke and to euerie member therof and hath like power to binde or to loose in the mouth of the least as in the mouth of the greatest For it is impossible that the word of God should be made of none effect As to Paules exaÌ„ple we suppose they can euil shewe any such authenticke warrant for their Apostolike aucthority ouer al Churches persons or such measure of grace as Paule had therfore we thinck they ought quietly to remaine within such lawes and limits in their calings as Paule hath left order For the commaundments giueÌ„ to Timothy Titus they can neither proue that they executed them in such poÌ„tifical maner as they do or in
subuerteth destroyeth and corrupteth the whole order coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Churches openeth a wide gap to al licentiousnes prophanenes of maners and conuersation wherin if the thowsand part of the heynouse faultes of these wicked multitudes these Sodomitical christians of these tymes should be noted prosecuted censured they should then in one weeke haue as few christians as now they haue many but nowe by this reiecting Gods ordinance erecting their owne deuises al sinne aboundeth ouer-floweth and no sinne though obstinatly held persisted an is iudged to deserue this censure Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sinne but as the faultes aboue alleadged are held but bleamishes in their worship so the greatest sinnes wickednes are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these dayes But vnto this their Consistory againe They that thus shall erect advance one perticular Congregation as a Iudge a Mother ouer others their Sisters must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistorie one perticular Pastor y t must be a Iudge a Father ouer other Pastors his bretheren And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from Or at leaste how then they can coÌ„demne that Apostatical Sea of ROME and that vnholy Father y â— sitteth therin And let Mr. GIF that is so wel skilled in discipline so derideth our ignorance now at length coÌ„sider better of this reason Seing euery perticular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord Iesus Christ against all sinne and transgressioÌ„ to censure the sinne and to excoÌ„municate the obstinate offenders c. And seing these Parishes haue not this power of Christ neither in themselues in perticular nor yet in their Consistories as hath bene proued whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurde will not followe That they are not therfore the true churches of Christ. And let him y e next time frame a better answere then the Geneua Consistory which though for the reasons abouesaid yt can yeild him no help yet may it not be compared with the popish courtes of these antichristiaÌ„ Bishops Neither will his other kindes of excommunication in their English Romish Synodes proue better Our answeare then vnto his second question is That the excommuncication of an hereticke after he is dulie convinced founde obstinate belongeth not to anie Bishops or Elders of other Churches but vnto that Congregation wherof this heretick stood a ioyned member Although we graunt that for the discussing of matters in doubt and the convincing of some notorious subtile heretick the ayde of other Churches is verie necessarie But the bloudie procedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not onlie convince the heretitke after their scholastical and vnchristiaÌ„ maner but deliuer him to the secular powers to be burned with fire whether the qualitie of the heresie deserue death or no by the lawe of God wherbie they make the magistrates together with theÌ„selues guiltie of murder declare vnto al men how vnlike their popish Consistories are to the holie free wel ordered Synodes of christian Churches But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrayned their crueltie and heweÌ„ their antichristian hornes by statute heere in tâ—is land that they cannot in that maner procede vnto bloude howsoeuer their tongues are not restrayned therbie froÌ„ pronowncing that truth of Christes Gospel which they cannot and dare not vâ—dertake to convince heresie and those Christians which yeild not to their antichristian yoke and enormities Hereticks Vnto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Cleargie we answeare That it carieth no shew of a christian Synode or Councel and so their excommunication of as litle value as their Sire the Popes is Furder we answeare That Synodes and Councels were not instituted to plucke away the power or â—o execute the publicke dueties of the Church but to instructe stir vp and confirme them in their duties to help them to decide controversies to shew them the rules of Gods worde and not to breake them or to make newe Moreouer we saye That in a christian Synode no christian ought to be shut out but hath equal power and freedome to speake in assent or dissent of anie thing there handled as occasion requireth Yet ought euerie christiaÌ„ to vse this power and libertie aright not disturbing the holie order of the Church presuming to speake before their auntients or against anie thing by them said without shewing iust cause c alwaies keping theÌ„selues within the compasse of faith and sobrietie Who so doth otherwise is reproued of al and iudged of al as a disturber NExt commeth the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND namely the Priestes repelling notorious offenders the open Wicked from the Sacrament Mr. Siffard being demaunded of vs simple christians what warraÌ„t he could shew for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST and what aucthoritie the Priest there hath to excommunitate anie member of the Church if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication Answeareth that it is in nature of excommunication to such as haue bene before admitted yet not to be compared or anie thing neere so great as excommunication And for the Minister that he is to take heed to himself that he giue not holie things to doggs To beware of that which may giue publick offence bring the holie mysteries into coÌ„tempt Because these his answeres doe no way shew or proue that we demaund it is needful that we make a litle â—urder search to seeke out the nature of this Suspension and how neere yt commeth to excommunication We finde that such as before were partakers of are now openlie repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sinne wickednes by the Priest alone Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest is yt not the communion of the blood of CHRIST The breade which we breake is it not the CommunioÌ„ of the Bodie of CHRIST Because we manie are one breade one Bodie for we all partake of one breade 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake therof haue with Christ as his members And againe that communion which they haue one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members This their suspensioÌ„ then being a publick â—emouing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ and from al benefite of his death From the communioÌ„ of the Church and froÌ„ al interest of the Saincts We would knowe of him what it lacketh of excommunication and what excommunication is more If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministrie of the worde and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are We would then know of him where he hath learned to receiue such to the communion of the ministrie or anie actions of the Church that are repelled from al communion and fellowship with
profession of their owne faith obedience they cannot be receiued as members or haue communion with the Church Then vntil Mr. Giffard proue that the prophane multitudes and open wicked which neuer made anie voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience may be receiued as members into the Church he cannot iustifie these Parish assemblies of England or convince vs. Furder we graunt that wicked men such as fal away from their profession and obedience shal daylie arise in the church ells there should be no cause of Excommunication But when their sinne is publicke then ought the Church to ceÌ„sure it and if they be founde obstinate to caste them out ells were there no vse of ExcoÌ„munication We graunt also that the Church sometymes of negligence delaying in due tyme to caste out such wicked is notwithstanding if they amend vpon admonition to be held the true Church of God And this our aduersarye himself Pag. 56. acknowledgeth that we confesse although now forgetting himself his heart being fraught with malice he bursteth foorth in the gall therof accusing and sclandering vs to hold these heresies That where any wicked and open sinners worship together with the Church as members of the Church there the Couenant is disanulled with the whole Church Againe that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the Gospell they be not only vtterly voyde of fayth which offende but also all they that worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are fallen from the Couenant Thirdlie that we make the stablenes of Gods Couenant to depend vpon the worckes of men and not of the free grace and mercie of God How could this accuser drawe these heresies from this assertion It is the Church of CHRIST vvhich hath the power to Excommunicate though it fault much by negligence in executing the same Doth not the expresse contrarie herein appeare How can he then reconcile these chardges of his vnto this proposition of ours Or can he produce any one sentence that euer we wrote or spake conteyning such odious doctrines as these Yf not these heresies must stil retourne to his owne throate as to the sepulchre froÌ„ whence the sprange these chardges must remayne vpon his reckoning not vpon ours WE hold that the open prophane and wicked such as were neuer caled vnto the faith caÌ„not be receiued into the Church as members before they make open and voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience He that hath from the beginning distinguished light from darcknes hath alwaies made difference and separation betwixt the world the Church caling the one the Sonnes of God the other the daughters of men preseruing the one in his Arcke drowning the other in the floode he chose and separated to himself out of the whole world one peculiar Nation and people to be his visible Church to whom no prophane which made not professioÌ„ of the same faith might be admitted or ioyned in their worship The worde Ecclesia or Church we knowe to be a companie caled forth from the world as were CHRISTS Disciples and the faithfull in all places at the first gathering of the Church Againe we hold that such as are dulie entred into the Church falling from their profession and after due admonition remaine obstinate and hardened in their sinne ought by the Church to be excommunicate And if the Church being admonished stirred vp vnto their duetie refuse to obey execute the commandemeÌ„t of God that then vnto the faithfull it ceaseth to be the true Church of God and ought to be auoyded vntil they repent The Church of CHRIST must euer be obedient vnto CHRISTS voyce which voyce when they openlie despise wilfully resist they are a companie of rebells not a companie of Sainctes When they fal away from the faith they fal away from the Couenant of God when they obstinaâ—lie persist in sinne wilfully despise Gods voyce they fal away from the faith Faith belieueth reuerenceth and obeyeth Gods worde so far as yt is reueled vnto them and neuer wilfully despiseth or reiecteth anie anie part of the same God can neuer be seuered from his worde they that despise reiect Gods worde despise reiect God himself Christ ruleth and reigneth by the scepter of his owne worde they that are not subiect vnto but wilfully disobey that word are not subiect vnto Christ haue not him a Kinge but a Iudge ouer them Seuere lawes iudgments are set downe in God his worde against presumptuous sinne yea against al sinne wherof they denie to repent God hath executed these iudgments vpon the Angels that sinned vpon the original world vpon the Nation of the Iewes Neither wil anie vayne titles of Church Couenant c. excuse or deliuer them being founde in the like transgressions from the like iudgments God is iust his iudgments are alike pronounced executed against al as against one being founde wilfully remayning in the transgression of his lawe Nowe then vvhilest vve conclude that vvhere the people were neuer rightly caled vnto the faith or gathered vnto CHRIST and orderly ioyned together in Christ But multitudes of prophane al sortes of vvicked persons idolators Atheists c euen the whole land without any choice any separation receiued into their Church as members without any voluntarie profession of their owne faith that in this estate they cannot be esteemed the true planted Churches of CHRIST With what conscience or truth can this vngodly man herevpoÌ„ defame divulge vs to hold this heresie that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the gospell they be not only voyde of fayth which offend but all they also which worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are falen from the Couenant How can he liken these rowtes of prophane Atheists and wicked persons of the world to the faithful seruantes of CHRIST in his Church or compare their open wickednes which they commit even with greedines to the faultes eskapes of frailety or negligeÌ„ce in y e Sainctes Againe whilest we affirme That where open obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne whether yt be in the whole Congregation or in any perticular member there that Congregation or that member cannot by vs be iudged faithfull or within the outward Couenant vntill they repent with what feare of God or shame of men caÌ„ this maÌ„ publish vs to hold that where any open grosse sinne is committed by anie and they stil through ignorance or negligence are suffred in the Church there the Couenant to be disanulled with the whole Church And so we to fall into this heresie To make the stablenes of God his Couenant not to depend vpon mercie and free grace promised and bownde with an oathe but vpon our worckes yea vpon the worckes of other whom we must iudge THis heresie after he himself hath deuised in our name he procedeth to coÌ„fute yt with manie wordes shewing the stability
in the faith notwithstanding that grieuous sinnes brake out amongst them so long as they despised not admonition and refused not to repent were to be still held and esteemed as the true Church of CHRIST who if we confesse our sinnes is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all iniquitie But as we haue often said this maketh against Mr. GIFFARD because the Church of ENGLAND was no such true Church before that and wherein these faultes were and are committed Vnto his second allegation that all shewed not repentance for the vncleannes fornication and vvantonnes vvhich they had coÌ„mitted We acknowledge it as the Apostle recordeth it to be a great fault in the whole Church That they did not more diligently search out the sinne and speedely caste out the sinners that remayned impenitent Yet was this in the Church but a fault of negligence and not of anie obstinacye they neither contemnded admonition neither spurned against their admoniâ—hers Yet euen this slacknes and negligence the Apostle thus sharplie seuerely reproueth threatning if they amend not to come with a rodde and with the power of CHRIST against them He neither iustified nor flattered them in their sinnes as this false Prophet doth who hath no better argumentes to pleade for oâ— iustifie this apostasie and obstinacie of the Church of England then the greatest sinnes and odious faultes of other Churches But to such a height measure is their wickednes encreased as all the sinnes of all Churches in all ages are too narrowe to couer the bedd of their fornicatioÌ„ Neither can those fearefull breaches lamentable ruines in the Churches of Asia heale the wounde of the Church of England If God so threatned or menaced those Churches to come and feight against them to remoue their candle-sticke c vvhat shalbe the iudgmentes of the Church of England what can she expect whose sinnes so far exceede which taketh boldnes to contynue in sinne and pleade for the same from these examples which the Lord hath lefte as monumentes of terror to all posterities Yet in all these desolations of these Churches can there be no comparison betwixt these barbarous confuse assemblies and those Churches which sometymes were rightly gathered and established vnto the faith and into the order of CHRIST and so all Mr. GIFFARDS labour and paynes herein is lost Neither will this conclusion followe That because yt ceaseth not to be a Church by and by where the open wicked are not separated because the Church sometimes may fall into such sinnes of ignorance or of negligence Therefore the godly are not defiled which communicate with these open wicked in prayers sacramentes and other spirituall exercises Might he not aswel conclude that because yt ceaseth not to be a Church herevpon therfore yt is no sinne But if yt be a sinne in the whole Church then is the whole Church guiltie of defiled with that sinne NOwe as Mr. GIFFARD laboureth to drawe this conclusion so striueth he to proue this proposition That the admission of the open vvicked impenitent to the table of the Lorde doth not defile either the Sacrament or the faithfull receiuers Herevnto he hath gathered a fewe stale reasons 1. As that the wickednes of the Minister doth not difile the holy thinges of God Iudas Ely his Sonnes the Scribes Pharasies were wicked meÌ„ yet were the thinges they administered holie 2. Then that the godly communicant toucheth not the sinnes of others but the holie thinges of God because there cannot be a separation from the wicked in bodie or bodily thinges alwaies but they which touche not their sinnes obey the commandement Come out from amonge them separate your selues touche none vncleane thing That the blame of receiuing such wicked resteth only vpon such as haue the power of the discipline in their handes and not vpon priuate members which mourne lament to see such fowle matters wincked at which mourners are cleared Ezech. 9. TO discuse these pointes in perticular would make this discourse ouer long breiflie therfore this we say To the first that difference must be put betwixt hypocrites whose wickednes is onlie knoweÌ„ vnto the Lord and such wicked whose sinne is knowen vnto the Church The publicke ministrie of secret hypocrits that are rightly caled to a lawful office and execute their office without fault or blame is holie blessed and profitable to the whole Church which can but looke vpon and iudge the outwarde action and estate and not the hearte and conscience of anie yet this their ministerie is vnavayleable to themselues and maketh to their owne greater condemnation But where the Minister is detected of and remayneth obstinate in anie transgression his ministration is not acceptable to the Lord neither ought to be suffered or ioyned vnto of the Church The Lord willbe sanctified of all that come neere vnto him Vnder the lawe he required an holie ministerie to serue in the priestes office without outward mayne or bleamish lest he defiled the holie thinges of the Lorde The offerings of anie other were not acceptable to the Lorde It is also written that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abhomination to the Lord as if they cut off a dogges heade or offred swynes bloode They haue nought to doe to declare the Lords ordinances that hate to be reformed and caste his worde behinde them The Church ought not onlie to forbid such to administer but to cast them out of the fellowship which if the Church neglect and refuse to doe them are they guiltie of the open or wilful breach of Gods holie ordinances in suffring his holie name and ministerie to be prophaned yea in ioyning thervnto and reioycing therin The examples by him alleadged no waye help him Iudas whilest he remayned with our Sauiour was an hypocrite his sinnes vndiscoured yea vncommitted so longe in that estate his publicke ministerie was lawful holie and acceptable vnto others The ministerie of the Sonnes of Eli after their wickednes was publick wea abhominable vnto God to be detested of all the faithful yet was the sinne of the people verie great who vpon and for the sinnes of these wicked prestes abhorred the offringes of the Lorde which were euer to be esteemed most holie being lawfullie administred otherwise they are not the offrings of the Lord. The people then as nowe grewe into Atheisme and all impietie abhorring all Gods worship and refusing to be at anie chardge louing the creatures better then the Creator by seing the great insolency and inreverence of the prestes Touching the Scribes and Pharasies we haue alreadie said enoughe TO his other allegations that the faithful are not defiled by communicating with the open and obstinate wicked in the Supper of the Lorde and other spiritual exercises because they touche not the sinne of the wicked but the holy thinges of God c Surelie this is verie odd diuinitie contrarie to al the groundes of scripture that we haue read of We had
whom and with whom he receiueth We say not now as some in the idlenes of their conceipt coniecture that we ought to examine and iudge euerie one that communicateth No it sufficeth vs if they by outward profession stand stil members and remaine not conuict and impenitent in anie open sinne knoweÌ„ to them and to the congrâ—gation They must knowe that the Minister that deliuereth is according to the outwarde rules so far as they maie iudge a lawful Minister of the Gospel and that the communicantes by outward professioÌ„ so far as they can iudge stand in the faith Ells can they not discerne what the communion of the Church or the action they doe is It wil not suffice or excuse them to saye they mourne and are grieued for the sinnes of the wicked with whom they communicate and for the sinne of them that should put them from the Sacrament yea caste them out of the Church and deliuer them ouer vnto Sathan for the humbling their flesh and the preservation of others from the contagion of their sinne yea of the whole Church from the wrath of God How should they be said to mourne for the sinne of these wicked with whom they feast and reioyce in this heauenly banquet From whence al sorrowe and grief and feare despaire or doubt are banished al teares wiped from their eyes they being by this Symbole receiued to the communioÌ„ of Christes bodie and of al the ioyes which he possesseth hath prepared reserued for al those for whom he died c against whom layeth no accusation no condemnation no imputation of sinne Againe the mourners he speaketh of which were marcked by the Angel Ezech. 9. did not onlie mourne but crye out against the sinne of the tyme yea they refrayned the publick worship the Temple which was so wholy polluted and prophaned as is described in the 8. Chapter of the same prophâ—cie the fierce wrath of God powred forth vpon the whole Citie and Sanctuarie Chap. 9. The glorie of God vtterlie departed from the Temple and Citie Chap. 11. But how should these that communicate are commingled with these open wicked and vnworthie and participate and ioyne in the sinne and sacriledge of the ministrie which they see and acknowledge be said of those marcked mouâ—ners which refrayned cryed out against the abhominations of the tyme Or how should these eâ—kape the vengeance of the destroyer The seale of God wherwith al CHRISTES servants are marcked and knowen is That they that name the name GOD depart from iniquitie 2. Timoth. 2. 19. Reuel 14. They may not coÌ„municate with the sinnes of others nor be draweÌ„ into the transgression of any of GODS commaundements by an Angel from heauen Gal. 1. No traditional writings of any man whosoeuer can defend these errors which tend to the open wilful prophanatioÌ„ of the holy things of God to the most dangerous contagion and infection of the whole Church and to the high prouocation of Gods wrath against them all What then hath this great clarck gayned by this traditional diuinitie saue bewrayed his corrupt iudgment great ignorance of the truth of God yea even of those principal actions wherof he professeth himself a Minister What hath he obtayned or endeuoured by al this discourse to prooue if not that all these prophane multitudes and rowtes of all sortes of wicked may be receiued into and nourished in the Church as members even with the holie pledges of CHRISTES bodie bloode by this idolatrous and sacrilegious ministrie for so hauing alreadie proued them we may pronownce them made by themselues labouring to iustifie approue their Church ministrie and ministration in this estate and most seuerely to censure blaspheme and condemne all such as by the word of God reproue them and for their obstinacie forsake them for the same thus opening a wide doore to all Atheâ—sme wickednes impietie sacriledge and bloodie persecution as by his next argument which he bringeth for a conclusion of this discourse appeareth Which before we come vnto this for conclusion we insert rest vpoÌ„ That our Sauiour CHRIST hath instituted that of necessitie there must be at the celebration of his last Supper a lawful Minister of the gospel according to the rules of CHRISTES Testament to deliuer a faithful people by outward professioÌ„ to receiue the pure elementes coÌ„manded vsed and that forme of administration which he and his Apostles prescribed That except al these concur there is not the sacrament rightly deliuered neither maie any christian coÌ„municate where he seeth any of these rules broken So then if Mr. GIFFARD had thus approued his Ministerie people ministration by the rules of CHRISTES Testament and by the euidence of Gods worde he should more haue persuaded convinced vs then by al this opprobrie blasphemie and rage which he breatheth forth out of the mouth of that DRAGON al which nowe add vnto his owne and not vnto our iudgments that feare not the curse causeles neither yet the false Prophets threates whose custome it is to curse them that God blesseth and to blesse them that God curseth to iustifie the wicked and to condemne the iust Therfore shall he be an abhomination both to God an men as the Lorde himself hath spoken As to his bloodie Argument drawen from th'executioÌ„ of certaine of SAVL his progenie because Kinge SAVL in his hypocritish and bloodie zeale murdered the Gibeonites which were yeilded and made slaues vnto them contrarie to the will and commandement of God Ihosh 8. Deutronomie 20. 10. Our innocencie shalbe our defence and his refutation If we haue committed or when we shall commit or consent vnto any such crime we refuse not the like iudgment In the meane time let all men iudge with what equitie or conscience this Cainiâ—e could thus applie enforce this example against vs And for conclusion let anie man by the worde of God iudge whether we that reprooue these their confuse parish assemblies consisting of all sortes of ignorant prophane vngodlie people worshipping God after an idolatrous maner and liuing in al disorder vngodlines c Or this mercenarie sacrilegious Priest that standeth a Minister to all these wicked deliuering the sacraments vnto them and blessing them with the peace of God c doe destroy murder their soules The scripture is plentiful in this poinct THE THIRD PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION OR CAVSE OF OVR SEPARATION FROM their assemblies is FOR that they haue a false antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them retained with them and maintained by them AS we haue already shewed y t the house of God which is his church cannot be built or consiste of any other then such chosen pretious liuing stones as God hath thervnto caled separated appointed namely such faithfull obedient willing people as come vnder CHRISTS conduct and willingly submit to his gouernment and cannot consiste of prophane wicked vngodly headstrong disobedieÌ„t multitudes whereon the Whore is said to
most execrable idolatries as they were not to be held the true Churches of God but were pronownced by the holy Ghost whores murtherers idolaters so commanded to be iudged esteamed and forsaken of al the faithful As euerie where in those prophecies of Ezechiel Ieremiah appeareth we haue lardglie in y e SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION proued And himself in that estate confessed that they ought to be abandoned by the godlie For the generall estate in the time of our Sauiour CHRISTS Ministrie and suffringes wee haue also proued that they were that malignant persecuting Church which did excommunicate CHRIST and al that confessed and belieued in him from whom our Sauiour and his Disciples separated And now to the place of the third epistle of Iohn I vvrote to the Church but of them Diotrephes louing the primacie receiueth vs not For this if I come I vvil bring to remembrance the vvorkes vvhich he doeth prating against vs vvith malitious vvordes and not content in these neither himself receiueth the bretherē and them that vvold he forbiddeth and casteth them out of the Church These verses I haue thus englished to the worde because me thinckes the vsuall translation though in yt selfe not euil seemeth a litle too much to nourish some false collections which neither the wordes nor circumstance of the text wil beare But now what wil Mr. G. gather or conclude from this place Diotrephes he saith abused the power of gouernment ambitiouslie If he meane the power of the whole Church the power of communication it would be shewed and proued wherein If he say in that he cast the bretheren out of the Church We would first knowe of him what bretheren the Apostle there speaketh of whether those strāgers or such members of that cōgregation as were willing to receiue those strāgers and whether they were caste out by waye of excōmunication If he say those members that were willing c we affirme the whole context the argument of the Epistle precedent the faultes of Diotrephes reckoned vp the admonition subsequēt to shew the cōtrarie that he meaneth of the other godlie strangers Gaius in the premises being cōmended for interraignement of those strangers Diotrephes here blamed for these faultes Of an ambitious humor louing aspiring to be chief or first and could not endure to be vnder the Apostles 1. Therfore he receiued not the Apostles letter 2. He pratled against them with euil wordes 3. neither himself receiued these strāgers 4. But forbad them that would 5. And so kept or caste them out of the Church The admonition was that they should not imitate euil but good c. Manie reasons might be drawen from these circūstances from sondrie wordes in the original but especially by the right diuiding of these two verses it wil appeare not to be meant of the abuse of anie censure of the Church of excōmunication As also by the exhortation drawen from these faultes For how could Gaius or anie other of the Church imitate him in this when there was no more Pastors of that congregation but Diotrephes if he were a Pastor as they suppose and by their rule onlie the Pastor maie excōmunicate But what now if it were admitted which can neuer by this scripture be proued that Diotrephes did both vsurpe abuse the power and gouernment of the Church what wil Mr. G. collect and enforce from hence First that this tyrānous oppression did not make them to be no longer Christes Church which remayned vnder him Wel and what wil he cōclude hereupon That these Parishes which wittinglie remaine in bondage vnder the yoke of these popish Prelates which receiue this false antichristian ministrie this popish idolatrous worship ordināces c. are the true Churches of Christ As ther is no consimilitude except in this one poincte of euil wherin yet these Parishes far exceed so is ther no consequent or comparison betwixt a Church no Church a true Church ministrie and a false Church ministrie Neither haue we a better argumēt in al Mr. G. his booke to approue the ministrie procedings of the Church of England thē the most odious sinnes faultes of other Churches which were not recorded by the holy Ghoste for vs to imitate or to pleade for sinne by so much as left for examples and as yt were lande markes to flee sinne by Againe this Church here remayned not wilfullie vnder this tyrannie of Diotrephes They neuer had bene reproued and admonished therfore Howsoeuer we iustifie not or tollerate the least sinne that God condemneth in his worde yet we make not anie sinne vntil impenitēcie and obstinacie be ioyned thervnto to disanul and breake the Couenant with God Neither doe we make euerie inordinate and presumptuous part when the Ministers of the Church extend themselues beyonde their lyne and the limites of their office straight waye an antichristian yoke if they be not seene or repressed at the first For as it is said both the Church and Ministers may sinne in such thinges and transgresse the rule of ignorance or of negligence And so what wil this example helpe their Church which standeth wilfullie and wittinglie in seene bondage vnto these antichristian Prelates But Mr. G. saith the Apostle did not will the faithful to separate themselues or not anie longer to obeye Diotrephes in anie thing wel and euen this his owne fonde collection doth shewe that Diotrephes sinne was neither so preiudicial heynouse or publicklie knowen to the Church as he would make yt For if Diotrephes had either vsurped the whole power or abused the publique gouernment of the Church so far as to caste out of his owne sole aucthoritie in his owne name what bretheren he luste yea those of the most vertuous and charitable he had not to haue bene suffred in the Church muchlesse to haue remayned a Minister with such publicke heynouse sinnes vpon him This had bene contrarie to the lawes and rules of Christes Testament to the practize and procedings of the other Apostles to the safetie of the Church To al which it is not credible or audible that this Apostle would be so contrarie neither may it be inferred from this place without grieuous peruerting the scriptures and iniurie to the holy Ghost If Diotrephes fault had bene in this nature so heynouse and publick what needed the Apostle to say If I come I will declare or bring his worckes to remembrance the Greeke worde is hupomneso submonebo I will submonish Againe the begining of the. 10. verse Dia touto propter hoc for this sheweth an other cause an other mattter an other fault Mr. Giffardes other place Iohn 16. v. 2. serueth his tourne as euil They shal caste you out of their Synagogues yea the hower cometh that euerie one that killeth you shal thinck he doth GOD good seruice It is strange that Mr. G. should thincke and vse this as spokē of the true Church whē the verie next verse hath these wordes And these
two edged sworde of his mouth to cut downe all sinne The mightie spirituall weapons of his worde to bring in captiuitie euerie thought to the obedience of CHRIST to to the ouerthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimitie lifted vp against the knowledge of God and to haue in a readines to reuendge all disobedience To cast sinne into the Epha and the talent of Gods iudgment vpon yt and to remoue yt out of the Church with all power and celeritie with the vvinges of a Storke and the wynde vnder their vvinges and to lift vp the Epha betwixt the heauen and the earth in the eyes of all men CHRIST hath giuen this aucthoritie to his seruantes whom he hath left in his house and hath commanded them all therfore to watche together To obserue and avoide them that cause anie diuisions or offenses contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned To contende for the maintenance of the whole faith Not to intermit or to be withdrawen from anie part of the same by anie man or Angell for persecution or anie thing that man can doe vnto them euerie where vvarning instructing and exhorting his seruantes not to feare persecution for righteousnes sake to take vp and beare his crosse daylie c Likewise for the neglect of those thinges God reproueth and stirreth vp the Churches To repent and to doe the first workes or ells he wil come against them speedily and remoue their candlestick To repent or ells he wil come against them speedily and fight against them with the sworde of his mouth Commending those Churches that kept that they had the worde of his patience in persecution promising them the Crowne of life if they remaine faithfull vnto the death to make them that ouercome pillers in the Temple of God c. M r. Giffard he is contented that vnder heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reforme or proceed in the practize of the whole will of God but at no hand where the Prince posesseth the faith in the fundamental poinctes though otherwise he erre and mis-leade the whole Churche in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline In these abuses and corruptions euerie priuate man is to keepe a good conscience but none to take publick aucthoritie to reforme Because these Kinges are principal members of the Church c. What cleare conscience any priuate man that yeildeth to these publick seene errors or transgressions Or the whole Church whilest yt wittinglie doth or suffreth these thinges to be donne can keepe we haue aboue shewed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION How expreslie contrarie this leauened traditionall proposition of M r. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines aboue recited is so euident to all men as yt needeth no furder or lardger refutation If God haue committed his whole worde vnto his Church as the foundation of their faith and of euery action they doe commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practize of the same and to cast out in his name and power all that publicklie and obstinatlie hold anie opinion or that so commit anie transgression contrary to his worde If God for the neglect hereof haue menaced to come in iudgment and exhorteth the Churches vpon the first discouerie hereof to speedie repentance Howe can M r. G. persuade the Churche to contynue wittingly in open errors publick transgression or in this estate promise them peace The holie Ghost hath not set downe this as a note of a true Prophet Neither hath God promised anie peace to thē that wittingly contynue in any error or transgression vntil they repent Doth not one deade flie putrifie and cause to stincke the whole oyntment of the Apothecary A litle leauen make sower the whole lumpe Wee would knowe of him therfore whether that diuelish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamentall wherebie he turneth away the practize of what part of Gods worde he lusteth and iustifieth or at the least tollerateth what open errors publick transgressions of Gods worde he lusteth will excuse him or anie that wittinglie breake the least of Gods commandements And whether the aucthoritie or christianitie of anie Prince wil in that daye excuse before the Lorde anie man that hath at the Princes commandment committed much more contynued to committ anie transgression without vnfaigned repentance But if the least error be contrarie to true faith the least transgression sinne and no knowen sinne or error to be committed or continued in howe can he persuade the Churche to commit or to contynue in anie error or transgression so highly to tempt and prouoke the Lorde And now to the poynct we would know of him whether anie Prince much-lesse a christian Prince may abrogate the commandement of God or take away that power and aucthoritie that God hath giuen to the Church vnto the worldes end If not but that the commandements of God remaine alwaies the same and the Churche hath the same power vnder a christian magistrate that vnder a heathen why then yt ought not to proceede to the obedience and practize of Gods worde whether in correcting and redressing faultes or in going forewarde in the wayes of God as they are reueiled vnto them as well and freelie vnder a Christian Prince as vnder an heathen Is it because a Christian Princd is the principall and greatest member of the Church why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church doe it hauing now such a singular help and rare accomplement of so pretious a member Euerie true member is giuen for the help and comfort and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body Wee may then much better conclude that the Church vnder a christian Prince may procede with all freedome in the sincere practize of CHRISTES Gospel because he is a member of CHRIST of the Church then vnder an infidel Prince that is an enimie to CRHIST and to the Church ANother reason he bringeth whie the Churche vnder a christian Prince may not reforme without his licence or vntill hee will because it is the office of a christian Prince to reforme the Church and therfore the Church in taking such a publicke worke vpon them shoulde but vsurpe and encroch vpon his office Because wee are so apt to mis-vnderstand one an other and to take words in too lardge or straight a sense it were good wee set downe what is meant by this reformation here spoken of before we proceede Wee meane then by reformation to reduce all thinges and actions to the true antient and primatiue paterne of Gods worde This we graun to be the office and duetie of the Prince to doe aswel in the Church as in the common Wealth The Princes eye may suffer no transgression of Gods lawe he is to ouersee and see euerie one to doe their dueties in the office
mock erye of your seruice booke and what Idolatrie is coÌ„mitted by yt to the abandoning true prayer according to the present wantes occasion The next thing to be coÌ„sidered is about making of lawes in the worship of God Where he would persuade vs that their whole Leitourgie conteining al their publick worship gouernment offices ordinances of their Church be but matters of order conveniencie Then the compelling teaching the publick assemblie to reade ouer mens writings both as Canons lawes in the Church and publickly priuately to offer them vp in stead of true prayer holy invocatioÌ„ is a matter of comelines conveniencie In the meane time it must be a turning away of the whole order ordinances of God For what is the whole Testament of Christ but an order for euerie office person action in the Church if he wil haue it taxis and then must confesse their Leitourgie an other order of publick administration and so as I haue said an other Gospel an other Testament a setting vp an other worship And herevpon I trust I may cal al this an adding to the word of God yea I wil go a litle further an abolishing disabling dishonoring of the word yt self graces of his spirit And whither all this smoke of the bottomlesse pyt may not be reproued with these scriptures not only Prouerb 30 verse 5. 6. Deut. 4. verse 32. but also Reu. 22. verse 18. 19. let the godly ponder and search and let the fearefulnes of the threats deterre all flesh from presuming to alter the ordinances lawes worship of the most high God And that the verie reading of an other mans writing for my owne praier or the prayer of the Church in stead of powring foorth our owne hearts is a changing of the whole worship into the making mens writing an Idoll which is by these places condemned as an accursed sinne let the most hard text as he in carnall wonder exclaymeth be looked into Reuel 22. verse 18. 19. The words are plaine If anie man put or add any thing vnto these or if anie man take away from these words he shalbe iudged as followeth Now if the adding an other whole Worship and suppressing of that God hath apointed be not an adding to these things writteÌ„ gyue sentence as you wil answere O saith he but it is said God wil add vnto such al the plagues written in this booke and there is in this booke mentioned the lake of fire As though the lake of fire is not due for euery sinne and yet not euery one that committeth sinne to be condemned what sinne is it that deserueth not the eternall wrath of God yet not euery one that sinneth giuen ouer to that iudgmeÌ„t for either yt may be of ignorance or of negligence and washed away by repentance in the blood of Christ or it may be repented of left wheÌ„ wee see yt Mr. GIFFARD hath read wel the curses of the law all the curses due for sinne that seeth not how many curses the law the Prophets pronounced vpon sinne to call the persons themselues to repentance shewing together the equitie of Gods law yet withal the free mercye of God to al y t truly repent their euil wayes Al that receiue the Beastes marke in their hand or forehead are thretned to be cast with the Beast and false Prophet into that lake yet I doubt not but manie that haue bene so seduced into that sinne shal by repentance be saued Not that I encourage anie to coÌ„tinue in such fearful estate to hardeÌ„ their hearts against the threatnings of God but that I would haue Mr. GIFF. to put difference betwene the curse layd to the sinne and the condemnation of the person sinning And seeing he taketh that lake a perticular seuere threat to the Apostasie vnder Antichrist I would he had the grace to consider how it lyeth vpon him whiles he speaketh out of y e mouth of the Beast if he repeÌ„t not to turne from his euil wayes Let it further be weighed how ignorantly he chargeth me to coÌ„demne al Churches for this smale examplifying of this Egiption darknes Idolatrous worship and exalting mens writings into this defacing of Gods word and true worship they neither being guylty of such a sacrilegious Leitourgie as this Egiptian Calf hatched at ROME neither are to be presently iudged no Church for others sinne till they ioyne obstinacie to their transgressioÌ„ But shift the matter as you wil or rather as you caÌ„ apeare before God I wil not make lesse the sinne or the iudgmeÌ„t due to sinne for meÌ„s persons no not of whole Churches if they shal be guilty therin My desire is by discouerie of the sinne to bring men to repentance and vnto the awe of God in his worship who are guyltie besides your selues in such sacriledge as to abrogate the Leitourgy of Christ set vp an other or to restraine Gods true worship to giue life to y e image of the Beast it skilleth me not let sinne be sinne and God righteous and theÌ„ examine your selues if they or you be cleare I reioyce neither do I think or caÌ„ charge them with such Idolatrie as is here erected I take it you wil be found y e sclaÌ„derer of other Churches to hide your owne filthines But saith Mr. Giff. those scriptures are against the adding of humane preceptes lawes to be kept as partes of Gods worship to bind y e coÌ„science to seek righteousnes y e forgiuenes of sinnes or y e merit of eternal life in them or against such rules of gouernmeÌ„t as God hath to be perpetual In which we must take your meaning to be this that you graÌ„t where anie humane precepts lawes be enforced as a part of Gods worship or as lawes to bind the conscience or when righteousnes is sought in them and forgiuenes of sinnes by obseruing of them or merit by them or if they be against such rules of gouernment as God hath set to be perpetuall if the additions or constitutions be such as anie of these then such lawes and constitutions are against the perfection of the word of God against Christian libertie and in the chief things which conâ—erne Gods worship against the ground and foundation of our faith and so a thing most detestable accursed which our Sauiour CHRIST refused iustly to obserue with the blinde Phariseis wherein you haue granted as much as I euer affirmed For is not your whole Leitourgie being an other then CHRISTS Testament your whole reading mens writings in place and in stead of laying forth your owne present wantes and occasions in prayer to God humane constitutions and made a parte of Gods worship at least such pretended vvorship as you thinke good enough for him Weygh the matter vprightly Againe whither your whole Antichristian gouernment offices Courtes and ministerie be not constitutions and ordinances against such rules of CHRISTS gouernmeÌ„t as be perpetual and an