he_o bring_v these_o which_o you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v wherefore_o in_o this_o you_o come_v short_a of_o the_o very_a minister_n honesty_n how_o little_a then_o must_v you_o needs_o have_v last_o i_o answer_v this_o very_a authority_n be_v against_o you_o in_o the_o two_o thing_n in_o controversy_n between_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n both_o which_o it_o allow_v and_o be_v against_o we_o only_o in_o one_o not_o so_o proper_o in_o controversy_n to_o wit_n in_o that_o it_o say_v this_o change_n be_v wrought_v not_o by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o the_o benediction_n that_o go_v before_o which_o benediction_n it_o do_v not_o say_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o word_n or_o a_o deed_n and_o it_o be_v as_o like_a to_o be_v some_o word_n as_o otherwise_o but_o whether_o word_n or_o deed_n it_o be_v as_o easy_a to_o consecrate_v by_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n as_o by_o any_o other_o word_n or_o outward_a deed_n so_o as_o herein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o have_v no_o help_n from_o any_o man_n either_o salmeron_n or_o the_o grecian_n or_o even_o your_o friend_n chamier_n for_o he_o discover_v your_o bad_a deal_n 22._o after_o this_o matter_n of_o the_o blessing_n you_o come_v back_o again_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o transubstantiation_n out_o of_o scripture_n tell_v we_o that_o bellarmine_n say_v it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a place_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v it_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n as_o scotus_n say_v for_o though_o say_v bellarmine_n that_o place_n which_o we_o bring_v seem_v so_o plain_a that_o it_o may_v compel_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a yet_o it_o may_v just_o be_v doubt_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o see_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n as_o scotus_n have_v think_v the_o contrary_n in_o which_o word_n bellarmine_n say_v but_o what_o we_o grant_v before_o to_o wit_n that_o though_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n in_o the_o plain_a connatural_a and_o obvious_a sense_n infer_v transubstantiation_n yet_o because_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o some_o learned_a man_n they_o may_v have_v another_o sense_n which_o prove_v only_o the_o real_a presence_n without_o transubstantiation_n it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n they_o can_v enforce_v a_o man_n to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n out_o of_o they_o what_o of_o all_o this_o nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n sir_n knight_n though_o in_o translate_n this_o saying_n of_o bellarmine_n you_n have_v corrupt_v it_o in_o two_o place_n the_o one_o that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v one_o scripture_n or_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a you_o change_v the_o singular_a number_n into_o the_o plural_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v the_o scripture_n be_v so_o plain_a etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o corruption_n of_o you_o thereby_o insinuate_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n teach_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v plain_a and_o with_o out_o difficulty_n so_o as_o every_o body_n may_v understand_v they_o which_o indeed_o be_v a_o ordinary_a say_n of_o you_o protestant_n but_o as_o ordinary_o deny_v by_o we_o catholic_n the_o other_o be_v that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v man_n most_o learned_a and_o acute_a as_o scotus_n be_v you_o say_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n such_o as_o scotus_n which_o word_n the_o you_o can_v but_o know_v alter_v the_o sense_n much_o for_o it_o import_v as_o if_o the_o better_a part_n of_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n go_v that_o way_n which_o be_v false_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o cardinal_n word_n and_o meaning_n 23._o you_o tell_v we_o now_o in_o the_o next_o place_n that_o you_o will_v proceed_v from_o scripture_n to_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v say_v mighty_a matter_n out_o of_o scripture_n not_o have_v indeed_o say_v one_o word_n out_o of_o it_o either_o for_o yourself_o or_o against_o us._n well_o let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o the_o father_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n say_v you_o be_v a_o diligent_a reader_n of_o the_o father_n yet_o after_o great_a study_n and_o search_n return_v this_o answer_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v seldom_o mention_v in_o the_o father_n but_o sir_n you_o be_v no_o diligent_a reader_n nor_o faithful_a interpreter_n of_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n for_o his_o word_n as_o you_o yourself_o put_v they_o down_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n be_v thus_o indulgent_a alphon_n a_o castro_n lib._n 8._o verbo_fw-la indulgent_a de_fw-fr transubstantiatione_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la rara_fw-la est_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la scriptoribus_fw-la mentio_fw-la that_o be_v of_o the_o transubstantiation_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v sedome_n mention_v in_o ancient_a writer_n wherein_o he_o say_v true_a and_o you_o most_o false_a for_o though_o of_o transubstantiation_n there_o be_v rare_a mention_n yet_o of_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v most_o frequent_a mention_n as_o bellarmine_n show_v at_o large_a and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o a_o faithless_a interpreter_n 20._o de_fw-fr euchar._n l._n 3._o cap._n 20._o but_o if_o a_o man_n consider_v castro_n his_o meaning_n he_o shall_v find_v you_o to_o have_v abuse_v that_o much_o more_o than_o his_o word_n for_o his_o drift_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o show_v that_o though_o there_o be_v not_o much_o mention_n in_o ancient_a write_v of_o a_o thing_n or_o plain_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n that_o yet_o the_o use_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sufficient_a bring_v for_o a_o example_n this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n whereof_o he_o say_v there_o be_v seldom_o mention_n and_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n whereof_o say_v he_o there_o be_v more_o seldom_o mention_n and_o then_o make_v his_o inference_n upon_o it_o thus_o yet_o who_o but_o a_o haeretique_n will_v deny_v these_o thing_n you_o may_v then_o as_o well_o sir_n humphrey_n and_o better_o too_o in_o castro_n his_o judgement_n have_v deny_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o proceed_v from_o the_o son_n than_o the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v into_o christ_n body_n and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o no_o diligent_a nor_o understand_v reader_n of_o castro_n 24._o after_o he_o come_v one_o yribarne_v a_o disciple_n of_o scotus_n who_o word_n you_o also_o corrupt_a in_o the_o translation_n which_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o tell_v you_o of_o for_o the_o matter_n he_o say_v it_o be_v of_o the_o substance_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o of_o transubstantiation_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o hold_v with_o his_o master_n scotus_n who_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n till_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n for_o which_o you_o yourself_o confess_v he_o be_v censure_v by_o bellarmine_n and_o suarez_n which_o be_v answer_n enough_o for_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o the_o beginning_n we_o do_v not_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o defend_v every_o singular_a opinion_n of_o one_o or_o two_o doctor_n contrary_a to_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o other_o but_o beside_o i_o answer_v that_o scotus_n plain_o aver_v transubstantiation_n and_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n who_o use_v the_o very_a word_n of_o conversion_n which_o be_v all_o one_o with_o transubstantiation_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n respondeo_fw-la quod_fw-la nec_fw-la panis_fw-la manet_fw-la contra_fw-la primam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la nec_fw-la annihilatur_fw-la vel_fw-la resoluitur_fw-la in_o materiam_fw-la primam_fw-la 9.3_o sâ—â—t_fw-la 4._o do_v 1â—_n 9.3_o contra_fw-la secundam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la sed_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la et_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la multum_fw-la express_v videtur_fw-la loqui_fw-la ambrose_n cvius_fw-la undecim_fw-la authoritates_fw-la supra_fw-la adductae_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o plures_fw-la habentur_fw-la de_fw-fr consecrat_fw-mi do_v 2._o i_o answer_v that_o neither_o the_o bread_n remain_v against_o the_o first_o opinion_n nor_o be_v annihilate_v or_o resolve_v in_o to_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la against_o the_o second_o opinion_n but_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n s._n ambrose_n seem_v to_o speak_v very_o express_o out_o of_o who_o 11._o authoritye_n be_v bring_v before_o and_o more_o be_v to_o be_v have_v the_o consecr_n do_v 2._o 1._o s._n amb._n de_fw-fr iis_fw-la qui_fw-la mist_n initiant_fw-la cap._n 9_o &_o the_o sacrament_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 3._o &_o 4._o lib._n 6._o cap._n 1
not_o in_o a_o proper_a and_o strict_a but_o a_o large_a sense_n only_o wherein_o as_o i_o agree_v with_o he_o for_o so_o much_o as_o perteyn_v to_o the_o wash_n itself_o so_o do_v i_o think_v that_o if_o a_o man_n read_v the_o place_n attentive_o he_o shall_v find_v that_o author_n by_o that_o wash_n to_o mean_a the_o sacrament_n of_o penance_n in_o a_o strict_a and_o proper_a sense_n for_o he_o give_v unto_o it_o the_o same_o power_n of_o remit_v of_o sin_n as_o to_o baptism_n he_o say_v it_o be_v institute_v for_o such_o sin_n as_o man_n shall_v fall_v into_o after_o baptism_n which_o he_o say_v can_v be_v iterate_v which_o be_v the_o proper_a attribute_n which_o we_o teach_v to_o belong_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o penance_n whereof_o that_o author_n make_v a_o long_a discourse_n i_o cite_v only_o these_o word_n follow_v for_o a_o sign_n of_o his_o meaning_n propter_fw-la hoc_fw-la benignissime_fw-la domine_fw-la pedes_fw-la lavas_fw-la discipulis_fw-la quia_fw-la post_fw-la baptismum_fw-la quem_fw-la svi_fw-la reverentia_fw-la iterari_fw-la non_fw-la patitur_fw-la aliud_fw-la lavacrum_fw-la procurasti_fw-la quod_fw-la nunquam_fw-la debeat_fw-la intermitti_fw-la for_o this_o most_o benign_a lord_n thou_o do_v wash_v thy_o disciple_n foot_n because_o after_o baptism_n which_o may_v not_o be_v iterate_v for_o reverence_n thereof_o thou_o hat_n procure_v another_o laver_n which_o must_v never_o be_v intermit_v by_o which_o it_o seem_v plain_a he_o do_v not_o mean_a that_o that_o wash_n be_v a_o proper_a sacrament_n itself_o but_o that_o it_o do_v signify_v another_o thing_n which_o be_v to_o take_v away_o sin_n after_o baptism_n which_o be_v to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n because_o it_o be_v to_o be_v institute_v by_o our_o saviour_n it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o laver_n and_o to_o have_v like_o force_n as_o baptism_n all_o which_o show_v it_o to_o be_v a_o true_a sacrament_n 13._o beside_o s._n cyprian_n you_o will_v needs_o bring_v s._n isidore_n with_o in_o compass_n of_o the_o curse_n for_o say_v you_o he_o account_v of_o 3._o sacrament_n to_o wit_n baptism_n chrism_n and_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n cite_v his_o 6._o book_n of_o etymology_n chap._n 18._o wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n according_a to_o your_o usual_a custom_n you_o do_v notable_o abuse_v this_o holy_a father_n for_o in_o that_o place_n he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o intend_v to_o speak_v of_o any_o sacrament_n at_o all_o but_o his_o only_a intent_n be_v to_o treat_v of_o the_o name_n of_o certain_a feast_n as_o the_o title_n of_o the_o chapter_n show_v which_o be_v this_o de_fw-fr festivitatibus_fw-la &_o eorum_fw-la nominibus_fw-la of_o feast_n and_o their_o name_n among_o which_o he_o put_v coena_fw-la dominica_n our_o lord_n supper_n which_o say_v he_o be_v so_o call_v because_o upon_o that_o day_n our_o saviour_n do_v make_v the_o pasch_fw-mi with_o his_o disciple_n which_o be_v celebrate_v even_o to_o this_o day_n as_o have_v be_v deliver_v &_o the_o holy_a chrism_n be_v make_v therein_o these_o be_v s._n isidor_n very_a word_n neither_o have_v he_o one_o word_n more_o in_o all_o the_o chapter_n of_o any_o sacrament_n where_o then_o be_v there_o any_o mention_n of_o baptism_n nay_o where_o be_v there_o any_o mention_n of_o our_o sauiour_n institution_n or_o celebration_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n but_o only_o that_o s._n isidore_n say_v that_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o pasch_fw-mi be_v observe_v to_o this_o day_n which_o because_o it_o can_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o paschal_n lamb_n give_v we_o cause_n to_o think_v that_o by_o our_o sauiour_n celebration_n of_o the_o paschal_n he_o understand_v the_o institution_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n which_o be_v now_o daily_o commemorate_a in_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n the_o chief_a or_o most_o clear_a mention_n here_o be_v of_o confirmation_n by_o the_o name_n of_o chrism_n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o signify_v by_o ancient_a author_n but_o all_o this_o that_o be_v say_v be_v not_o say_v by_o way_n of_o deliver_v any_o doctrine_n concern_v sacrament_n but_o as_o they_o have_v relation_n to_o such_o a_o feast_n be_v not_o this_o them_z a_o notorious_a abuse_n of_o s._n isidor_n authority_n but_o because_o you_o shall_v see_v plain_o that_o if_o he_o accidental_o or_o for_o some_o special_a reason_n make_v mention_n of_o those_o 3._o sacrament_n as_o it_o be_v like_a he_o may_v do_v as_o other_o father_n 19_o isid_n de_fw-fr offi_n eccles_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 16._o &_o cap._n 23._o cap._n 19_o be_v also_o wont_a that_o therefore_o he_o do_v not_o mean_a to_o limit_v the_o whole_a number_n of_o sacrament_n to_o three_o i_o will_v put_v you_o down_o one_o place_n where_o he_o mention_v two_o more_o of_o which_o there_o may_v be_v most_o doubt_n to_o wit_n pennance_n and_o matrimony_n for_o penance_n he_o make_v it_o a_o sacrament_n and_o compare_v it_o with_o baptism_n in_o these_o word_n sicut_fw-la in_o baptismo_fw-la omnes_fw-la iniquitates_fw-la remitti_fw-la ita_fw-la poenitentiae_fw-la compunctione_n fructuosa_fw-la universa_fw-la fateamur_fw-la deleri_fw-la peccata_fw-la ut_fw-la hoc_fw-la tegat_fw-la fructuosa_fw-la confessio_fw-la quod_fw-la temerarius_fw-la appetitus_fw-la aut_fw-la ignorantiae_fw-la notatur_fw-la contraxisse_fw-la neglectus_fw-la let_v we_o confess_v that_o as_o in_o baptism_n all_o iniquity_n be_v forgive_v so_o all_o sin_n be_v blot_v out_o by_o the_o fruitful_a compunction_n of_o penance_n that_o fruitful_a confession_n may_v cover_v what_o temerarious_a desire_n or_o ignorant_a neglect_n have_v contract_v where_o you_o see_v how_o to_o compunction_n and_o confession_n join_v together_o in_o this_o sacrament_n he_o give_v the_o like_a power_n of_o blot_v out_o sin_n as_o to_o baptism_n and_o for_o matrimony_n he_o say_v the_o three_o good_n or_o perfection_n thereof_o be_v fides_fw-la proles_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la fidelity_n offspring_n sacrament_n where_o beside_o the_o fidelity_n or_o mutual_a obligation_n which_o have_v ever_o belong_v to_o marriage_n before_o our_o sauiour_n time_n and_o still_o belong_v among_o infidel_n though_o the_o obligation_n be_v not_o so_o perfect_a among_o they_o he_o put_v down_o that_o special_a perfection_n of_o a_o sacrament_n though_o for_o this_o word_n sacrament_n perhaps_o you_o may_v wrangle_v but_o it_o be_v but_o wrangle_v as_o i_o shall_v by_o and_o by_o show_n by_o occasion_n of_o s._n austin_n like_a use_n of_o the_o same_o word_n but_o by_o this_o that_o have_v be_v say_v of_o the_o father_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o no_o word_n can_v be_v sufficient_a to_o declare_v your_o exorbitant_a bad_a deal_n in_o cite_v the_o father_n in_o this_o place_n &_o draw_v they_o with_o in_o compass_n of_o the_o council'_v curse_v they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o it_o for_o it_o do_v not_o command_v that_o whensoever_o a_o man_n name_v one_o sacrament_n he_o shall_v name_v all_o or_o that_o he_o shall_v say_v they_o be_v seven_o in_o number_n nor_o more_o nor_o less_o or_o that_o he_o shall_v say_v they_o be_v institute_v by_o christ_n but_o that_o no_o man_n shall_v say_v against_o this_o as_o indeed_o not_o one_o do_v for_o not_o one_o of_o all_o those_o you_o name_n say_v that_o there_o be_v not_o seven_o or_o that_o there_o be_v more_o than_o seven_o which_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o you_o dare_v so_o bold_o say_v contrary_a to_o the_o most_o sacred_a authority_n of_o so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n than_o which_o great_a be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v or_o imagine_v upon_o earth_n and_o this_o may_v serve_v for_o the_o father_n 14._o but_o before_o i_o have_v do_v with_o they_o in_o this_o point_n i_o must_v in_o a_o word_n take_v notice_n of_o one_o frivolous_a thing_n whereof_o you_o make_v a_o great_a matter_n and_o whereby_o you_o think_v to_o avoid_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v out_o of_o the_o father_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o 7._o sacrament_n which_o be_v that_o they_o use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n in_o a_o general_a signification_n for_o any_o sacred_a sign_n or_o for_o a_o mystery_n &_o such_o like_a wherein_o you_o be_v very_o copious_a to_o no_o purpose_n for_o we_o deny_v it_o not_o but_o only_o we_o deny_v that_o which_o you_o will_v build_v thereupon_o to_o wit_n that_o therefore_o they_o do_v not_o at_o any_o time_n use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n in_o the_o strict_a and_o proper_a sense_n when_o they_o speak_v of_o our_o other_o 5._o sacrament_n which_o you_o deny_v this_o i_o say_v we_o deny_v as_o a_o false_a fiction_n of_o you_o &_o your_o minister_n whereas_o you_o confess_v the_o father_n to_o use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n strict_o and_o proper_o when_o they_o speak_v of_o baptism_n and_o eucharist_n we_o show_v that_o they_o use_v the_o same_o word_n and_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n when_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o other_o sacrament_n join_v they_o with_o these_o two_o as_o i_o show_v before_o out_o
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leave_v it_o out_o because_o it_o be_v not_o for_o your_o purpose_n 9_o but_o have_v cite_v the_o latin_a thus_o lame_o you_o translate_v even_o that_o which_o you_o have_v cite_v as_o lame_o for_o you_o take_v the_o first_o and_o last_o part_n of_o s._n thomas_n his_o sentence_n and_o put_v they_o in_o to_o english_a leave_v out_o the_o middle_n in_o which_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o double_a refection_n or_o fruit_n of_o both_o mind_n and_o will_n and_o so_o join_v they_o together_o with_o the_o causal_n conjunction_n for_o of_o your_o own_o place_v not_o of_o s._n thomas_n he_o and_o put_v in_o a_o and_o instead_o of_o a_o of_o thus_o fruit_n and_o refection_n instead_o of_o fruit_n of_o refection_n which_o make_v a_o very_a great_a alteration_n of_o sense_n for_o you_o make_v it_o thereby_o seem_v to_o your_o reader_n as_o if_o s._n thomas_n mean_v that_o he_o that_o understand_v not_o his_o own_o prayer_n be_v without_o fruit_n and_o refection_n that_o be_v without_o any_o fruit_n 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do_v not_o mark_v that_o you_o will_v make_v s._n thomas_n contradict_v himself_o for_o he_o have_v say_v only_o in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o sentence_n that_o he_o that_o understand_v receive_v more_o benefit_n in_o the_o last_o part_n you_o will_v make_v he_o say_v that_o he_o that_o understand_v not_o receive_v no_o benefitt_a which_o then_o if_o you_o look_v well_o into_o the_o matter_n you_o will_v find_v to_o be_v contradictory_n which_o yet_o you_o will_v make_v to_o be_v both_o true_a and_o one_o to_o be_v the_o reason_n of_o the_o other_o by_o join_v they_o together_o with_o your_o for_o which_o be_v most_o absurd_a i_o can_v also_o have_v a_o say_n to_o you_o for_o the_o latin_a wherein_o you_o put_v the_o word_n effectum_fw-la for_o affectum_fw-la effect_n for_o affection_n for_o the_o word_n effectum_fw-la be_v more_o fit_a to_o obscure_v the_o sense_n or_o make_v it_o rather_o none_o i_o have_v just_a reason_n by_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o good_a carriage_n to_o think_v it_o to_o be_v your_o do_v but_o because_o it_o be_v but_o the_o change_n of_o a_o letter_n i_o will_v be_v content_a to_o lay_v it_o upon_o your_o printer_n and_o excuse_v you_o all_o i_o can_v and_o thus_o much_o only_o for_o the_o very_a citation_n of_o the_o place_n though_o in_o that_o consist_v almost_o all_o for_o as_o for_o the_o matter_n it_o be_v plain_a s._n thomas_n do_v not_o disallow_v or_o discommend_v prayer_n in_o a_o tongue_n which_o the_o party_n that_o pray_v do_v not_o understand_v but_o acknowledge_v some_o fruit_n therein_o neither_o do_v any_o author_n you_o bring_v say_v the_o contrary_n whereby_o all_o your_o argument_n be_v answer_v 10._o but_o yet_o gratis_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o prayer_n in_o a_o tongue_n not_o know_v to_o the_o party_n be_v no_o way_n disprove_v i_o say_v far_o our_o controversy_n be_v not_o whether_o it_o be_v better_a for_o man_n to_o say_v their_o private_a devotion_n in_o a_o language_n which_o they_o understand_v than_o otherwise_o for_o as_o for_o that_o we_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v better_a as_o that_o note_n which_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o rheims_n testament_n acknowledge_v but_o say_v withal_o that_o the_o other_o be_v good_a because_o as_o s._n thomas_n say_v it_o be_v better_a to_o refresh_v or_o feed_v both_o the_o understanding_n and_o will_n than_o the_o will_v alone_o for_o though_o the_o refection_n of_o the_o will_v be_v the_o principal_a fruit_n the_o will_n be_v the_o principal_a power_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o prayer_n and_o whereon_o the_o fruit_n of_o prayer_n do_v necessary_o and_o essential_o depend_v yet_o the_o other_o help_v but_o not_o so_o but_o that_o without_o it_o the_o prayer_n may_v be_v good_a and_o fruitful_a and_o therefore_o s._n thomas_n put_v the_o will_n before_o the_o understanding_n in_o this_o his_o sentence_n for_o if_o the_o will_n or_o desire_n be_v good_a the_o prayer_n have_v his_o fruit_n though_o the_o understanding_n be_v distract_v as_o when_o a_o man_n be_v distract_v unwilling_o as_o it_o happen_v most_o frequent_o and_o with_o the_o best_a man_n in_o which_o case_n it_o be_v hard_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o the_o whole_a fruit_n of_o his_o prayer_n without_o any_o fault_n of_o he_o now_o a_o distract_a understanding_n be_v all_o one_o with_o a_o mind_n that_o understand_v not_o the_o word_n which_o he_o pray_v so_o also_o with_o some_o proportion_n or_o in_o some_o respect_n we_o say_v of_o public_a prayer_n that_o the_o people_n perhaps_o may_v reap_v some_o more_o fruit_n that_o way_n if_o they_o do_v understand_v the_o public_a prayer_n but_o the_o question_n than_o be_v whether_o that_o fruit_n which_o may_v come_v that_o way_n can_v countervail_v the_o ten_o part_n of_o the_o inconvenience_n which_o may_v happen_v by_o have_v public_a prayer_n in_o a_o vulgar_a tongue_n which_o be_v well_o note_v in_o the_o rheims_n
acknowledge_v inhaerent_a justification_n which_o caluin_n deni_v though_o in_o this_o he_o err_v that_o he_o think_v that_o inhaerent_a justify_n form_n to_o be_v imperfect_a and_o insufficient_a of_o itself_o to_o make_v man_n the_o adoptive_a child_n of_o god_n without_o the_o imputative_a justice_n of_o christ_n which_o alsoe_o be_v not_o so_o much_o caluinisme_n as_o lutheranisme_n but_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v bellarmine_n excuse_v pighius_fw-la in_o another_o respect_n to_o wit_n because_o he_o do_v not_o obstinate_o defend_v the_o error_n as_o caluin_n or_o luther_n do_v which_o be_v the_o main_a difference_n for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o error_n but_o the_o obstinacy_n that_o make_v a_o haeretique_n and_o so_o you_o see_v sir_n knight_n you_o have_v not_o one_o true_a word_n in_o all_o this_o section_n but_o let_v we_o now_o see_v your_o next_o 5._o chap._n 5._o the_o knight_n 5._o section_n wherein_o he_o undertake_v to_o show_v how_o worldly_a policy_n and_o profitt_a hinder_v the_o reformation_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unexcusable_a in_o themselves_o chapter_n v._n 1._o of_o this_o section_n there_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v say_v for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o rave_v for_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o now_o he_o see_v trental_n mass_n diriges_fw-la requiem_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a indulgence_n purgatory_n etc._n etc._n make_v article_n of_o faith_n he_o despayr_v of_o reformation_n to_o which_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o good_a sign_n that_o he_o find_v at_o last_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o church_n so_o build_v upon_o a_o rock_n as_o no_o tempest_n or_o wind_n can_v shake_v it_o but_o rather_o that_o by_o storm_n and_o tempest_n it_o grow_v strong_a the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v strengthen_v against_o all_o haeretique_n by_o the_o great_a authority_n on_o earth_n to_o wit_n a_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a again_o he_o despair_n when_o he_o see_v maldonat_n say_v as_o he_o tell_v we_o practise_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o his_o church_n and_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n he_o that_o be_v maldonate_fw-it interpret_n a_o place_n of_o s._n john_n allow_v s._n augustin_n explication_n as_o most_o probable_a though_o he_o rather_o approve_v another_o of_o his_o own_o because_o it_o more_o cross_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o caluinist_n this_o be_v it_o that_o drive_v he_o in_o to_o despair_v alas_o poor_a sir_n humphrey_n be_v all_o your_o bravery_n come_v to_o this_o what_o your_o hart_n fail_v you_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n such_o a_o cause_n may_v well_o make_v you_o despair_n and_o by_o your_o despair_n you_o show_v your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v false_a for_o true_a doctrine_n lose_v nothing_o by_o be_v impugn_a but_o rather_o gain_v as_o experience_n show_v in_o the_o catholic_a faith_n of_o which_o be_v verify_v the_o say_n of_o the_o prophest_n 11.7_o psal_n 11.7_o eloquia_fw-la domini_fw-la eloquia_fw-la casta_fw-la argentum_fw-la igne_fw-la examinatum_fw-la probatum_fw-la terrae_fw-la purgatum_fw-la septuplum_fw-la word_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v chaste_a word_n silver_n examine_v by_o fire_n try_v of_o the_o earth_n purge_v seven_o fold_n fire_n try_v but_o consume_v not_o gold_n but_o dross_n it_o show_v to_o be_v dross_n by_o consume_v it_o for_o maldonat_n he_o approve_v and_o commend_v s._n augustin_n explication_n but_o add_v another_o of_o his_o own_o not_o contrary_a nor_o disagree_v though_o different_a from_o it_o he_o prefer_v it_o because_o it_o be_v more_o against_o a_o haeretique_n so_o it_o be_v like_o s._n aug._n himself_o will_v also_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a in_o these_o time_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o in_o expound_v of_o scripture_n he_o still_o have_v regard_n to_o the_o confutation_n of_o these_o heresy_n which_o then_o reign_v and_o in_o one_o place_n he_o advise_v io._n tract_n 2._o in_o ep_n 1._o io._n that_o those_o passage_n of_o scripture_n be_v most_o careful_o observe_v and_o remember_v which_o make_v most_o against_o haeretique_n 2._o after_o this_o the_o knight_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o foolish_a stuff_n which_o need_v no_o answer_n be_v but_o a_o bare_a recital_n of_o thing_n as_o for_o example_n our_o wrest_v the_o scripture_n his_o agreement_n of_o doctrine_n with_o the_o father_n nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n in_o this_o place_n and_o then_o he_o cry_v out_o against_o our_o alter_v the_o commandment_n which_o be_v before_o answer_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n prayer_n to_o saint_n and_o in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n which_o shall_v be_v afterward_o answer_v only_o in_o this_o place_n i_o note_v in_o a_o word_n this_o wise_a question_n of_o he_o what_o reason_n say_v he_o can_v be_v allege_v why_o a_o ignorant_a man_n shall_v pray_v without_o understanding_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v with_o a_o contrary_a demand_n to_o wit_n how_o a_o ignorant_a man_n that_o be_v one_o that_o want_v knowledge_n or_o understanding_n shall_v pray_v with_o understanding_n and_o so_o i_o leave_v he_o of_o the_o 6._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 6._o chap._n 6._o the_o common_a pretence_n of_o our_o adversary_n refuse_v reformation_n because_o we_o can_v assign_v the_o praecise_a time_n when_o error_n come_v in_o refute_v chapter_n vi._n 1._o here_o the_o knight_n be_v up_o again_o with_o his_o reformation_n and_o complain_v that_o we_o will_v not_o admit_v thereof_o nor_o acknowledge_v our_o doctrine_n erroneous_a unless_o he_o can_v assign_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o and_o by_o who_o the_o error_n come_v in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v he_o can_v do_v for_o he_o never_o go_v about_o it_o but_o only_o labour_v to_o disprove_v our_o exception_n against_o he_o by_o say_v that_o a_o man_n that_o be_v sick_a of_o a_o consumption_n ought_v not_o to_o refuse_v the_o help_n of_o the_o physician_n upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o can_v not_o tell_v the_o time_n and_o occasion_n when_o his_o body_n begin_v first_o to_o be_v distemper_v and_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n he_o say_v that_o when_o a_o man_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o pit_n and_o call_v to_o a_o passenger_n for_o help_n 19_o ep._n 19_o the_o passenger_n must_v not_o refuse_v to_o help_v he_o out_o upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o see_v not_o how_o he_o shall_v come_v to_o fall_v in_o he_o prove_v it_o also_o as_o he_o think_v out_o of_o scripture_n because_o in_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o cockle_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o enemy_n sow_v it_o when_o man_n be_v a_o sleep_n out_o of_o which_o he_o infer_v that_o they_o can_v not_o see_v or_o know_v he_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o defection_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o secret_a apostasy_n 13._o matth._n 13._o and_o therein_o he_o make_v the_o difference_n between_o haeresy_n and_o apostasy_n that_o haeresy_n be_v preach_v open_o so_o as_o the_o time_n and_o person_n may_v be_v name_v but_o not_o so_o this_o our_o secret_a apostasy_n haeresy_n work_v in_o the_o day_n apostasy_n in_o the_o night_n and_o then_o he_o reckon_v up_o some_o point_n as_o worship_v of_o image_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n and_o some_o other_o which_o he_o say_v be_v not_o so_o mean_v aâ—_n first_o as_o they_o be_v now_o practtize_v and_o believe_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o be_v his_o jolly_a discourse_n frame_v in_o his_o own_o brain_n pan_n and_o sure_o ground_v as_o you_o shall_v find_v upon_o examination_n thereof_o which_o now_o i_o come_v unto_o 2._o he_o compare_v the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n to_o the_o grow_v of_o a_o sickness_n in_o a_o man_n body_n and_o presume_v that_o because_o he_o say_v it_o we_o must_v therefore_o take_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o will_v have_v we_o for_o error_n he_o will_v present_o have_v we_o also_o fall_v to_o correct_v they_o without_o stand_v to_o examine_v far_o no_o more_o than_o a_o physician_n shall_v that_o come_v to_o a_o sick_a man_n but_o his_o comparison_n fail_v exceed_o for_o though_o there_o be_v some_o little_a likeness_n between_o the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n and_o grow_v of_o a_o disease_n in_o a_o man_n body_n because_o both_o begin_v little_a and_o stel_o and_o increase_v by_o degree_n yet_o to_o our_o purpose_n none_o at_o all_o for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o we_o shall_v fall_v to_o cure_v the_o disease_n without_o examine_v the_o cause_n though_o by_o your_o good_a leave_n sir_n knight_n good_a physician_n use_v to_o inquire_v of_o the_o cause_n effect_n and_o other_o circumstance_n of_o the_o sickness_n which_o they_o come_v to_o cure_v but_o whether_o this_o that_o you_o say_v be_v a_o disease_n or_o sickness_n be_v so_o or_o no_o
thus_o scotus_n not_o only_o teach_v transubstantiation_n himself_o but_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o make_v most_o frequent_a mention_n of_o the_o change_n and_o conversion_n of_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o scotus_n must_v have_v hold_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o substance_n thereof_o to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o s._n ambrose_n at_o the_o least_o and_o if_o so_o ancient_a then_o even_o from_o the_o beginning_n his_o meaning_n therefore_o in_o say_v it_o be_v determine_v of_o late_a in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n be_v only_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o bless_a sauiour_n body_n either_o by_o transubstantiation_n that_o be_v by_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n or_o otherwise_o so_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v remain_v the_o church_n have_v determine_v that_o the_o word_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o former_a sense_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v by_o his_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n expound_v of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v she_o do_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n wherewith_o the_o faith_n be_v deliver_v to_o we_o to_o wit_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n 11.9.3_o v._o scot._n in_o 4._o sent._n do_v 11.9.3_o which_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o though_o it_o be_v also_o the_o common_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o beginning_n yet_o it_o may_v well_o be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v be_v de_fw-fr substantia_fw-la fidei_fw-la yribarne_n speak_v because_o it_o have_v not_o be_v so_o plain_o deliver_v nor_o determine_v in_o any_o council_n till_o greg._n the_o 7._o his_o time_n wherein_o it_o be_v first_o define_v against_o berengarius_fw-la and_o that_o but_o by_o a_o particular_a or_o provincial_a roman_a council_n which_o notwithstanding_o the_o article_n in_o itself_o may_v be_v ancient_a though_o not_o so_o express_o deliver_v as_o i_o declare_v more_o ample_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n 25._o you_o have_v little_a help_n then_o sir_n humphrey_n from_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n scotus_n and_o yribarne_v which_o although_o you_o have_v yet_o be_v not_o that_o sufficient_a for_o discharge_v of_o your_o credit_n you_o have_v promise_v we_o acient_a father_n against_o transubstantiation_n which_o these_o three_o be_v not_o for_o one_o of_o they_o to_o wit_n yribarne_n be_v perhaps_o now_o alive_a another_o to_o wit_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n live_v not_o pass_v 100_o year_n ago_o the_o three_o to_o wit_n scotus_n about_o 300._o year_n since_o which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o father_n as_o we_o ordinary_o speak_v of_o they_o wherefore_o bethink_v yourself_o at_o last_o you_o bring_v we_o a_o father_n or_o two_o to_o wit_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n tell_v we_o that_o s._n aug._n be_v so_o whole_o you_o that_o maldonat_n expound_v a_o place_n in_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n say_v that_o he_o be_v persuade_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n and_o see_v that_o caluin_n expound_v the_o same_o place_n as_o he_o do_v he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o mind_n and_o for_o theodoret_n you_o say_v that_o valentia_n observe_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o consecrate_a element_n do_v remain_v in_o their_o proper_a substance_n and_o shape_n and_o figure_n he_o make_v the_o like_a answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o one_o or_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n before_o the_o question_n be_v debate_v do_v think_v less_o considerate_o and_o true_o of_o transubstantiation_n this_o be_v all_o that_o ever_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o much_o to_o your_o shame_n shall_v upon_o examination_n appear_v io._n aug_n er_fw-mi 26._o in_o io._n 26._o for_o s._n augustine_n then_o what_o be_v it_o that_o he_o say_v in_o favour_n of_o you_o in_o expound_v that_o verse_n of_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n where_o our_o saviour_n say_v your_o father_n have_v eat_v manna_n and_o be_v dead_a he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o their_o father_n that_o be_v the_o naughty_a and_o unbelieve_a people_n of_o the_o jew_n die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o in_o their_o soul_n because_o they_o in_o eat_v manna_n do_v consider_v only_o what_o it_o present_v to_o their_o outward_a sense_n and_o not_o what_o it_o represent_v unto_o their_o mind_n by_o faith_n whereas_o the_o good_a man_n among_o they_o as_o moses_n aaron_n phinees_n and_o other_o who_o he_o say_v be_v our_o father_n and_o not_o they_o do_v not_o die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o because_o they_o do_v not_o consider_v it_o only_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n but_o according_a to_o faith_n remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o figure_n and_o a_o figure_n of_o this_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o we_o have_v as_o the_o same_o holy_a father_n say_v express_o in_o the_o same_o place_n hunc_fw-la panem_fw-la significavit_fw-la manna_n manna_n signify_v this_o bread_n and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o judas_n and_o other_o bad_a christian_n which_o receive_v of_o the_o altar_n and_o by_o receive_v die_v because_o they_o receive_v it_o ill_o do_v not_o this_o make_n much_o for_o you_o now_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o see_v how_o whole_o s._n aug._n be_v you_o how_o he_o say_v that_o manna_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o this_o our_o heavenly_a bread_n that_o we_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o altar_n do_v not_o all_o this_o make_v fine_o for_o you_o but_o you_o will_v say_v then_o if_o it_o make_v nothing_o for_o we_o why_o do_v maldonate_fw-it say_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n he_o will_v have_v interpret_v otherwise_o i_o answer_v not_o that_o this_o interpretation_n be_v for_o you_o but_o because_o the_o other_o be_v more_o against_o you_o to_o wit_n thus_o whereas_o s._n augustine_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o they_o that_o do_v eat_v manna_n die_v to_o be_v because_o they_o do_v not_o eat_v it_o with_o faith_n maldonate_fw-it make_v the_o difference_n to_o be_v not_o so_o much_o between_o the_o person_n which_o do_v eat_v as_o between_o the_o food_n which_o they_o do_v eat_v say_v that_o our_o saviour_n make_v this_o a_o special_a prerogative_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n far_o above_o the_o manna_n that_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n give_v life_n to_o they_o that_o eat_v it_o which_o the_o manna_n do_v not_o give_v of_o itself_o and_o indeed_o with_o dew_n reverence_n be_v it_o speak_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n this_o interpretation_n be_v more_o suitable_a to_o the_o text_n and_o discourse_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o that_o whole_a chapter_n which_o be_v to_o compare_v and_o prefer_v that_o true_a bread_n which_o he_o say_v his_o heavenly_a father_n do_v give_v before_o that_o of_o manna_n which_o moses_n give_v their_o father_n it_o be_v more_o also_o against_o the_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n in_o regard_n it_o be_v more_o for_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n which_o they_o labour_v might_n &_o main_a to_o depress_v and_o that_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o caluin_n rather_o follow_v the_o former_a interpretation_n not_o for_o any_o love_n to_o truth_n or_o reverence_v which_o he_o bear_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n 27._o how_o false_a then_o and_o absurd_a be_v that_o scoff_a speech_n of_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o the_o next_o leaf_n of_o your_o book_n where_o you_o say_v ironical_o thus_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o corporal_a presence_n for_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o these_o day_n as_o if_o forsooth_o maldonate_fw-it do_v say_n that_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n concern_v the_o same_o if_o he_o have_v live_v now_o in_o these_o time_n you_o hereby_o insinuate_v as_o if_o s._n augustine_n think_v otherwise_o thereof_o then_o we_o now_o teach_v but_o how_o gross_o false_a this_o be_v may_v appear_v plain_o by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n whereof_o either_o s._n aug._n or_o maldonate_fw-it speak_v but_o how_o they_o that_o eat_v manna_n have_v dye_v and_o they_o that_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v live_v according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n which_o be_v clean_o a_o different_a thing_n wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v line_v s._n aug._n somewhat_o but_o maldonate_fw-it you_o be_v line_v much_o more_o by_o make_v as_o if_o he_o acknowledge_v s._n augustine_n to_o be_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v
general_n council_n as_o be_v the_o parliament_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n to_o which_o he_o have_v promise_v his_o special_a assistance_n but_o this_o be_v by_o the_o way_n 3._o now_o out_o of_o this_o authority_n which_o you_o grant_v to_o those_o ancient_a counsel_n i_o go_v a_o little_a far_o with_o you_o and_o ask_v what_o you_o can_v say_v more_o against_o the_o present_a church_n and_o present_a council_n of_o trent_n then_o against_o the_o church_n of_o that_o time_n &_o counsel_n of_o those_o time_n whatsoever_o you_o can_v say_v of_o the_o church_n now_o that_o it_o may_v err_v may_v as_o well_o be_v say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o that_o tyme._n for_o our_o sauiour_n promise_n for_o the_o perpetuity_n &_o infallibility_n thereof_o be_v as_o much_o for_o one_o time_n as_o another_o for_o our_o time_n now_o as_o for_o those_o then_o what_o you_o say_v now_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n that_o it_o be_v disclaim_v by_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n may_v be_v say_v much_o more_o of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a which_o be_v gain_v say_v both_o by_o more_o &_o other_o manner_n of_o man_n than_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n &_o the_o same_o may_v be_v also_o say_v of_o some_o of_o the_o rest_n &_o so_o forth_o of_o any_o thing_n else_o that_o you_o can_v object_v wherefore_o to_o conclude_v if_o it_o be_v not_o atheism_n to_o say_v then_o that_o by_o question_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o nicene_n decree_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v i_o see_v not_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v atheism_n to_o say_v the_o same_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n but_o you_o think_v it_o be_v atheism_n to_o deny_v the_o scripture_n alone_o to_o be_v sufficient_a for_o that_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o your_o inference_n but_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o all_o catholic_n say_v they_o be_v not_o so_o and_o yet_o they_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n and_o honour_n and_o worship_v he_o as_o their_o god_n but_o this_o of_o the_o alone_a sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n be_v a_o several_a matter_n of_o itself_o only_o for_o your_o place_n of_o s._n paul_n it_o be_v plain_a you_o pervert_v it_o for_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o write_a word_n but_o of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n by_o he_o preach_v as_o be_v manifest_a by_o his_o own_o very_a word_n there_o which_o be_v these_o 20.20_o act._n 20.20_o vos_fw-fr scitis_fw-la quomodo_fw-la nihil_fw-la subtraxerim_n utilium_fw-la quominus_fw-la annunciarem_fw-la vobis_fw-la &_o docerem_fw-la vos_fw-la publicae_fw-la &_o per_fw-la domos_fw-la testificans_fw-la etc._n etc._n you_o know_v how_o i_o have_v withdraw_v nothing_o that_o be_v profitable_a but_o that_o i_o preach_v it_o unto_o you_o and_o teach_v you_o open_o and_o from_o house_n to_o house_n testify_v to_o jew_n and_o gentile_n penance_n towards_o god_n and_o faith_n in_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n for_o neither_o have_v s._n paul_n then_o write_v his_o epistle_n to_o the_o ephesian_n to_o who_o he_o there_o speak_v for_o he_o write_v it_o out_o of_o prison_n from_o rome_n and_o even_o the_o second_o time_n of_o his_o imprisonment_n which_o be_v many_o year_n after_o this_o speech_n whereas_o at_o the_o time_n of_o this_o speech_n he_o be_v but_o go_v to_o jerusalem_n where_o be_v take_v after_o some_o time_n of_o imprisonment_n he_o be_v send_v to_o rome_n and_o you_o may_v as_o well_o have_v aleadge_v those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n to_o his_o disciple_n all_o that_o i_o have_v hear_v from_o my_o father_n i_o have_v make_v know_v to_o you_o 15.15_o io._n 15.15_o as_o these_o of_o s._n paul_n and_o yet_o be_v well_o know_v our_o saviour_n do_v not_o deliver_v any_o one_o word_n in_o write_v to_o his_o apostle_n neither_o do_v bellarmine_n saying_n help_v you_o any_o thing_n for_o though_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o in_o general_a to_o know_v which_o be_v but_o few_o be_v write_v there_o be_v yet_o many_o more_o not_o write_v which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v know_v by_o some_o in_o the_o church_n though_o not_o by_o all_o now_o for_o the_o curse_n which_o you_o be_v content_a shall_v light_v upon_o you_o if_o we_o show_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n to_o have_v be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n for_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ_n be_v not_o too_o forward_o to_o draw_v malediction_n upon_o yourself_o it_o will_v come_v fast_o enough_o to_o your_o cost_n it_o be_v a_o heavy_a thing_n than_o you_o be_v aware_a of_o to_o have_v the_o curse_n of_o a_o mother_n and_o such_o a_o mother_n as_o the_o church_n which_o do_v not_o curse_v without_o cause_n nor_o out_o of_o passion_n for_o as_o the_o scripture_n say_v maledictio_fw-la matris_fw-la eradicat_fw-la fundamenta_fw-la 3.11_o eccle._n 3.11_o the_o malediction_n of_o a_o mother_n do_v root_n out_o the_o foundation_n 4._o have_v thus_o praeface_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o come_v 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those_o that_o be_v spring_v of_o the_o gentile_n and_o receive_v benefit_n of_o our_o saviour_n while_o he_o live_v here_o on_o earth_n do_v thus_o see_v we_o also_o have_v see_v the_o picture_n of_o peter_n and_o paul_n apostle_n and_o of_o our_o saviour_n himself_o express_v in_o variety_n of_o colour_n and_o keep_v and_o that_o as_o it_o be_v like_a because_o our_o ancestor_n maiores_fw-la nostri_fw-la which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n translate_v the_o man_n of_o old_a you_o know_v best_o why_o yourself_o will_v come_v as_o near_o as_o may_v be_v to_o the_o fashion_n of_o their_o own_o people_n or_o kindred_n who_o be_v wont_a to_o honour_v such_o as_o have_v do_v they_o any_o benefitt_a or_o help_v in_o that_o manner_n by_o way_n of_o parenthesis_n i_o note_v the_o latin_a word_n of_o heathenish_a custom_n as_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n translate_v it_o be_v gentilis_fw-la consuetudinis_fw-la for_o which_o you_o be_v best_o look_v in_o your_o dictionary_n of_o thomas_n thomasius_n 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picture_n one_o be_v because_o that_o be_v a_o time_n of_o persecution_n when_o the_o christian_n be_v fain_o to_o fly_v many_o time_n they_o can_v not_o carry_v away_o or_o hide_v they_o be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n as_o they_o do_v other_o sacred_a thing_n but_o be_v force_v to_o leave_v they_o to_o the_o fury_n and_o scorn_n of_o the_o gentile_n another_o least_o the_o plaster_n break_v of_o in_o some_o place_n they_o may_v become_v deform_v and_o so_o contemptible_a last_o it_o seem_v plain_o by_o the_o council_n that_o it_o be_v out_o of_o honour_n to_o image_n that_o they_o do_v forbid_v it_o because_o they_o think_v not_o the_o wall_n a_o place_n convenient_a for_o so_o it_o seem_v to_o say_v lest_o that_o which_o be_v adore_v shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n in_o which_o word_n it_o express_o acknowledge_v the_o adoration_n of_o image_n and_o because_o they_o be_v to_o be_v adore_v therefore_o not_o to_o be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n more_o you_o may_v find_v in_o other_o sir_n humphrey_n which_o you_o if_o you_o have_v deal_v honest_o shall_v have_v reply_v upon_o and_o not_o stand_v still_o repeat_v your_o thread_n bare_a objection_n as_o if_o they_o be_v new_a 14._o but_o now_o for_o your_o authority_n out_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n there_o be_v so_o many_o foul_a faut_n commit_v by_o you_o in_o it_o that_o i_o know_v not_o where_o to_o begin_v but_o begin_v i_o must_v your_o word_n of_o it_o be_v these_o the_o good_a emperor_n valens_n &_o theodosius_n make_v proclamation_n to_o all_o christian_n against_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n in_o this_o manner_n forasmuch_o as_o we_o have_v a_o diligent_a care_n in_o all_o thing_n to_o maintain_v the_o religion_n of_o the_o most_o high_a god_n therefore_o we_o suffer_v not_o man_n to_o fashion_n to_o grave_n or_o paint_v the_o image_n of_o our_o saviour_n eitherin_o colour_n or_o in_o stone_n or_o in_o any_o other_o kind_n of_o metal_n or_o matter_n but_o wheresoever_o any_o such_o image_n shall_v 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this_o be_v theod._n the_o young_a grand_a child_n to_o theodosius_n the_o elder_a who_o come_v to_o be_v emperor_n in_o valens_n his_o place_n when_o he_o be_v go_v three_o the_o law_n itself_o be_v most_o foul_o corrupt_v and_o the_o meaning_n whole_o pervert_v for_o the_o law_n be_v make_v in_o honour_n of_o the_o cross_n to_o wit_n thus_o we_o command_v that_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o man_n to_o carve_v or_o paint_v the_o sign_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n either_o on_o the_o ground_n or_o in_o any_o stone_n or_o marble_n lie_v on_o the_o ground_n which_o to_o have_v be_v mean_v in_o honour_n of_o our_o sauiour_n cross_n and_o picture_n appear_v by_o a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n call_v trullanum_n in_o these_o word_n 37._o conâ—_n const_n in_o trull_n cap._n 37._o
answer_n be_v that_o polydore_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n but_o of_o those_o of_o the_o old_a who_o therefore_o he_o name_v veteres_fw-la patres_fw-la the_o old_a father_n and_o in_o particular_a name_v moses_n and_o ezechias_n the_o reason_n indeed_o why_o they_o do_v condemn_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v fear_n of_o idolatry_n but_o the_o reason_n of_o that_o fear_n be_v as_o he_o say_v because_o no_o man_n have_v see_v god_n they_o know_v not_o what_o shape_n to_o give_v he_o and_o discourse_v of_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n which_o be_v a_o figure_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o cross_n he_o say_v a_o long_a time_n after_o god_n put_v on_o humane_a sharp_a and_o be_v make_v man_n be_v see_v and_o know_v by_o mortal_a man_n and_o in_o that_o humble_a shape_n by_o his_o own_o power_n wrought_v miracle_n beyond_o credit_n the_o same_o whereof_o make_v man_n come_v flock_v unto_o he_o who_o do_v so_o behold_v and_o reverence_v his_o 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of_o s._n anastasius_n and_o theodoret_n agree_v better_o with_o our_o latin_a translation_n then_o the_o greek_a which_o be_v now_o extant_a which_o be_v a_o plain_a proof_n of_o the_o betterne_n and_o great_a pureness_n thereof_o as_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a greek_a edition_n beside_o that_o bellarmine_n prove_v this_o even_o out_o of_o the_o magdeburgian_o because_o they_o cite_v this_o very_a place_n at_o we_o do_v neither_o do_v he_o answer_v this_o authority_n only_o by_o the_o variety_n of_o the_o read_n but_o withal_o he_o give_v 2._o answer_n more_o one_o that_o s._n ignatius_n put_v all_o the_o force_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o cup_n thus_o that_o though_o many_o eat_v &_o many_o drink_n
the_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n and_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n as_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v to_o give_v his_o life_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n whereas_o he_o ask_v whether_o any_o of_o these_o 33._o be_v canonize_v for_o it_o it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o man_n be_v canonize_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o belief_n only_o but_o for_o practice_v of_o faith_n hope_n charity_n and_o all_o virtue_n together_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o holy_a and_o christian_a life_n in_o general_a and_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o special_a mention_n of_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o their_o adoration_n of_o image_n yet_o define_v which_o before_o be_v not_o and_o which_o then_o man_n be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o nor_o so_o bind_v to_o believe_v as_o after_o so_o consequent_o man_n may_v be_v less_o bind_v to_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o then_o then_o afterward_o and_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o those_o that_o come_v after_o so_o long_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o church_n and_o live_v in_o the_o unity_n thereof_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o determine_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a those_o ancient_a martyr_n do_v as_o appear_v both_o by_o their_o own_o writing_n yet_o extant_a and_o their_o deed_n record_v by_o other_o man_n in_o good_a authentical_a history_n these_o holy_a martyr_n therefore_o be_v true_o we_o which_o if_o this_o knight_n will_v disprove_v he_o must_v show_v which_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v otherwise_o that_o be_v against_o that_o uhich_v we_o now_o believe_v which_o till_o he_o can_v do_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v in_o possession_n of_o our_o martyr_n and_o of_o their_o faith_n our_o faith_n testify_v that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n and_o their_o blood_n give_v testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o faith_n of_o the_o 17._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 17._o chap._n 17._o our_o adversary_n common_a objection_n draw_v from_o the_o charitable_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n touch_v the_o salvation_n of_o profess_a romanist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o church_n answer_v chapter_n xvii_o 1._o this_o section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o natural_a language_n and_o therefore_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v he_o begin_v with_o a_o say_n of_o costerus_n that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o lutheran_n can_v be_v save_v whereupon_o he_o fall_v in_o to_o a_o great_a rage_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v a_o woman_n a_o church_n a_o city_n which_o reign_v over_o the_o king_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o have_v multitude_n of_o nation_n at_o her_o command_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n his_o church_n be_v not_o such_o a_o one_o neither_o do_v protestans_fw-la as_o he_o say_v account_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o their_o church_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o fall_v to_o reckon_v up_o diverse_a particular_a point_n of_o his_o church_n doctrine_n as_o disclaim_v of_o merit_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n read_v of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o scripture_n for_o each_o of_o these_o he_o ask_v very_o rhetorical_o after_o every_o one_o whether_o they_o be_v accurse_v for_o hold_v they_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n ask_v whether_o we_o can_v be_v bless_v that_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n that_o have_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n adore_v image_n adore_v saint_n adore_v the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n we_o that_o add_v tradition_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o detract_v from_o god_n commandment_n and_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o discourse_n of_o his_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o it_o be_v a_o man_n may_v think_v it_o folly_n for_o i_o to_o stand_v answer_v particular_o therefore_o i_o answer_v brief_o and_o in_o general_a first_o that_o though_o it_o take_v up_o half_a his_o section_n yet_o it_o be_v whole_o from_o his_o purpose_n which_o he_o pretend_v by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o objection_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o he_o object_v unto_o we_o they_o be_v all_o answer_v before_o and_o prove_v some_o false_a for_o the_o thing_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v we_o all_o absurd_a if_o we_o consider_v the_o proof_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o example_n he_o tell_v we_o we_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n both_o which_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a for_o how_o many_o catholic_n be_v there_o in_o england_n man_n and_o woman_n marry_v and_o what_o meat_n be_v there_o that_o catholic_n be_v forbid_v to_o eat_v in_o due_a time_n and_o season_n be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n to_o some_o man_n to_o wit_n such_o as_o have_v voluntary_o promise_v the_o contrary_a and_o some_o meat_n at_o some_o time_n all_o one_o i_o say_v as_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n neither_o marriage_n nor_o meat_n be_v forbid_v in_o these_o case_n as_o ill_o in_o themselves_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o saint_n paul_n term_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n but_o for_o high_a end_n but_o to_o make_v he_o yet_o a_o little_a more_o capable_a of_o this_o answer_n i_o will_v urge_v he_o with_o one_o ordinary_a instance_n which_o be_v this_o i_o presume_v his_o father_n have_v some_o apprentice_n bind_v not_o to_o marry_v during_o his_o apprenticeship_n i_o will_v then_o know_v of_o he_o whither_o his_o father_n in_o that_o case_n do_v forbid_v marriage_n and_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n 2._o against_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n he_o say_v it_o be_v write_v with_o man_n of_o other_o tongue_n and_o other_o lip_n will_v i_o speak_v unto_o this_o people_n and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o hear_v i_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o curse_n at_o the_o build_n of_o babel_n for_o they_o that_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v speak_v but_o by_o this_o allege_v of_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o a_o good_a thing_n it_o be_v to_o have_v it_o in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n for_o every_o man_n to_o read_v and_o abuse_v it_o at_o his_o pleasure_n when_o such_o a_o right_n learned_a man_n as_o this_o knight_n do_v so_o strange_o apply_v it_o he_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v esay_n the_o prophet_n speak_v against_o latin_a in_o this_o place_n but_o the_o man_n be_v quite_o wide_a of_o his_o mark_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o he_o that_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o strange_a tongue_n there_o for_o as_o for_o the_o sense_n he_o care_v not_o or_o rather_o his_o read_n reach_v not_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n which_o be_v but_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o people_n laugh_v at_o the_o prophet_n that_o come_v to_o they_o with_o command_n from_o god_n repeat_v their_o word_n scoff_o manda_fw-la remanda_fw-fr 28.11_o isa_n 28.11_o expecta_fw-la reexpecta_fw-la etc._n etc._n god_n send_v they_o word_n by_o the_o prophet_n that_o because_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v those_o word_n nor_o follow_v the_o good_a counsel_n which_o he_o give_v he_o will_v speak_v another_o word_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v fall_v &_o be_v catch_v crush_v and_o carry_v into_o captivity_n and_o there_o hear_v a_o language_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o prophet_n s._n paul_n indeed_o use_v it_o in_o another_o sense_n to_o persuade_v the_o corinthian_n that_o prophecy_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o tongue_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n be_v a_o sign_n for_o infidel_n that_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o infidel_n for_o their_o conversion_n but_o prophecy_n that_o be_v exhortation_n or_o interpretation_n be_v for_o the_o faithful_a or_o those_o that_o believe_v already_o wherein_o i_o will_v know_v according_a to_o either_o explication_n what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v against_o prayer_n in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o tower_n of_o babel_n the_o knight_n sure_o speak_v by_o contrary_n for_o whereas_o at_o babel_n man_n fall_v from_o unity_n of_o language_n to_o speak_v every_o man_n a_o several_a language_n so_o as_o no_o one_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o &_o by_o that_o mean_v they_o be_v all_o disperse_v into_o several_a nation_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v quite_o contrary_a draw_v several_a nation_n to_o unity_n of_o language_n make_v all_o to_o speak_v one_o and_o the_o sâ—me_a tongue_n whereas_o haeretique_n in_o several_a place_n by_o use_n of_o other_o language_n understand_v not_o one_o the_o other_o and_o therein_o most_o perfect_o resemble_v the_o babel-builder_n as_o well_o in_o the_o very_a diversity_n of_o tongue_n as_o in_o the_o diversity_n of_o