more_o be_v without_o a_o subject_a than_o water_n without_o 14._o moisture_n or_o fire_n without_o heat_n or_o a_o stone_n without_o hardness_n which_o be_v so_o join_v together_o that_o they_o can_v be_v separate_v methodius_n confute_v origen_n fancy_n about_o the_o soul_n have_v 234._o the_o shape_n of_o a_o body_n without_o the_o substance_n because_o the_o shape_n and_o the_o body_n can_v be_v separate_v from_o each_o other_o st._n augustin_n prove_v the_o immortality_n of_o the_o soul_n from_o hence_o because_o mere_a accident_n can_v never_o be_v separate_v from_o 13._o the_o body_n so_o as_o the_o mind_n be_v by_o abstraction_n and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o assert_v it_o to_o be_v a_o monstrous_a absurd_a doctrine_n to_o suppose_v that_o who_o nature_n be_v to_o be_v in_o a_o subject_a to_o be_v capable_a of_o subsist_v without_o it_o claudianus_n mamertus_n prove_v that_o the_o soul_n can_v not_o be_v in_o 3._o the_o body_n as_o its_o subject_a for_o than_o it_o can_v not_o subsist_v when_o the_o body_n be_v destroy_v p._n i_o hope_v you_o have_v now_o do_v with_o this_o three_o argument_n pr._n yes_o and_o i_o shall_v wait_v your_o own_o time_n for_o a_o answer_n i_o go_v on_o to_o a_o four_o and_o that_o be_v from_o the_o evidence_n of_o sense_n assert_v and_o allow_v by_o the_o father_n with_o respect_n to_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n p._n i_o expect_v this_o before_o now_o for_o as_o the_o author_n of_o the_o single_a sheet_n observe_v this_o be_v the_o cock-argument_n of_o one_o of_o the_o light_n of_o your_o church_n and_o it_o so_o far_o resemble_v the_o light_n that_o like_o it_o it_o make_v a_o glare_a show_n but_o go_v to_o grasp_v it_o and_o you_o find_v nothing_o in_o your_o hand_n pr._n then_o it_o be_v plain_a our_o sense_n be_v deceive_v p._n not_o as_o to_o transubstantiation_n for_o he_o believe_v more_o of_o his_o sense_n than_o we_o do_v for_o his_o eye_n tell_v he_o there_o be_v the_o colour_n of_o bread_n and_o he_o assent_v to_o they_o his_o tongue_n that_o it_o have_v the_o taste_n of_o bread_n and_o he_o agree_v to_o it_o and_o so_o for_o his_o smell_a and_o feel_v but_o then_o he_o have_v a_o notable_a fetch_n in_o his_o conclusion_n viz._n that_o his_o ear_n tell_v he_o from_o the_o word_n speak_v by_o christ_n himself_o that_o it_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o he_o believe_v these_o too_o be_v not_o here_o one_o sense_n more_o than_o you_o believe_v and_o yet_o you_o will_v persuade_v the_o world_n that_o we_o do_v not_o believe_v our_o sense_n pr._n this_o be_v admirable_a stuff_n but_o it_o must_v be_v tender_o deal_v with_o for_o i_o pray_v what_o do_v he_o mean_v when_o he_o say_v he_o believe_v from_o christ_n own_o word_n that_o it_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n what_o be_v this_o it_o be_v it_o the_o accident_n he_o speak_v of_o before_o be_v those_o accident_n than_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v it_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n but_o that_o be_v not_o discern_v by_o the_o sense_n he_o say_v and_o if_o it_o be_v will_v he_o say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n if_o neither_o of_o these_o than_o his_o believe_v it_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n signify_v nothing_o for_o there_o can_v be_v no_o sense_n of_o it_o p._n however_o he_o show_v that_o we_o who_o believe_v transubstantiation_n do_v not_o renounce_v our_o sense_n as_o you_o common_o reproach_v we_o for_o we_o believe_v all_o that_o our_o sense_n represent_v to_o we_o which_o be_v only_o the_o outward_a appearance_n for_o as_o he_o well_o observe_v if_o your_o eye_n see_v the_o substance_n of_o thing_n they_o be_v most_o extraordinary_a one_o and_o better_a than_o we_o for_o our_o part_n we_o see_v no_o far_o than_o the_o colour_n or_o figure_n etc._n etc._n of_o thing_n which_o be_v only_a accident_n and_o the_o entire_a object_n of_o that_o sense_n pr._n be_v there_o no_o difference_n between_o the_o perception_n of_o sense_n and_o the_o evidence_n of_o sense_n we_o grant_v that_o the_o perception_n of_o our_o sense_n go_v no_o far_a than_o to_o the_o outward_a accident_n but_o that_o perception_n afford_v such_o a_o evidence_n by_o which_o the_o mind_n do_v pass_v judgement_n upon_o the_o thing_n represent_v by_o the_o outward_a sense_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o have_v you_o any_o certainty_n there_o be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o a_o material_a substance_n in_o the_o world_n p._n yes_o pr._n whence_o come_v the_o certainty_n of_o the_o substance_n since_o your_o sense_n can_v discover_v it_o do_v we_o live_v among_o nothing_o but_o accident_n or_o can_v we_o know_v nothing_o beyond_o they_o p._n i_o grant_v we_o may_v know_v in_o general_a that_o there_o be_v such_o thing_n as_o substance_n in_o the_o world._n pr._n but_o can_v we_o not_o know_v the_o difference_n of_o one_o substance_n from_o another_o by_o our_o sense_n as_o for_o instance_n can_v we_o not_o know_v a_o man_n from_o a_o horse_n or_o a_o elephant_n from_o a_o mouse_n or_o a_o piece_n of_o bread_n from_o a_o church_n or_o do_v we_o only_o know_v there_o be_v such_o and_o such_o accident_n belong_v to_o every_o one_o of_o these_o but_o our_o sense_n be_v not_o so_o extraprdinary_a to_o discover_v the_o substance_n under_o they_o i_o pray_v answer_v i_o one_o question_v do_v you_o ever_o keep_v lend_v p._n what_o a_o strange_a question_n be_v this_o do_v you_o not_o tell_v i_o you_o will_v avoid_v impertinency_n pr._n this_o be_v none_o i_o assure_v you_o p._n then_o i_o answer_v i_o think_v myself_o oblige_v to_o keep_v it_o pr._n then_o you_o think_v yourself_o bind_v to_o abstain_v from_o flesh_n and_o to_o eat_v fish._n p._n what_o of_o all_o that_o pr._n be_v it_o the_o substance_n of_o flesh_n you_o abstain_v from_o or_o only_o the_o accident_n of_o it_o p._n the_o substance_n pr._n and_o do_v you_o know_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o substance_n of_o flesh_n and_o fish_n by_o your_o taste_n p._n yes_o pr._n then_o you_o have_v a_o extraordinary_a taste_n which_o go_v to_o the_o very_a substance_n p._n but_o this_o be_v off_o from_o our_o business_n which_o be_v about_o the_o father_n and_o not_o our_o own_o judgement_n about_o the_o evidence_n of_o sense_n pr._n i_o be_o ready_a for_o you_o upon_o that_o argument_n and_o i_o only_o desire_v to_o know_v whether_o you_o think_v the_o evidence_n of_o sense_n sufficient_a as_o to_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n where_o it_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v present_a p._n by_o no_o mean_n for_o than_o we_o can_v not_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v present_a where_o we_o can_v perceive_v it_o pr._n but_o the_o father_n do_v assert_v the_o evidence_n of_o sense_n to_o be_v sufficient_a as_o to_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n so_o irenoeus_n 238._o tertullian_n epiphanius_n hilary_n and_o st._n augustin_n i_o will_v produce_v their_o word_n at_o length_n if_o you_o desire_v they_o p._n it_o will_v be_v but_o lose_v labour_n since_o we_o deny_v not_o as_o cardinal_z bellarmin_n well_o say_v the_o evidence_n of_o sense_n to_o be_v a_o good_a positive_a evidence_n but_o not_o a_o negative_a i._n e._n that_o it_o be_v a_o 14._o body_n which_o be_v handle_v and_o feel_v and_o see_v but_o not_o that_o it_o be_v no_o body_n which_o be_v not_o pr._n very_o well_o and_o i_o pray_v then_o what_o become_v of_o your_o single_a sheet_n man_n who_o so_o confident_o deny_v sense_n to_o be_v good_a positive_a evidence_n as_o to_o a_o real_a body_n but_o only_o as_o to_o the_o outward_a appearance_n p._n you_o mistake_v he_o for_o he_o say_v we_o be_v to_o believe_v our_o sense_n where_o they_o be_v not_o indispose_v and_o no_o divine_a revelation_n intervene_v which_o we_o believe_v there_o do_v in_o this_o case_n and_o therefore_o unless_o the_o father_n speak_v of_o the_o sacrament_n we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o regard_v their_o testimony_n in_o this_o matter_n but_o we_o have_v strong_a evidence_n against_o you_o from_o the_o father_n for_o they_o say_v we_o be_v not_o to_o rely_v on_o the_o evidence_n of_o sense_n as_o to_o the_o sacrament_n so_o st._n cyril_n st._n chrysostom_n and_o st._n ambrose_n pr._n i_o be_o glad_a you_o offer_v any_o thing_n which_o deserve_v to_o be_v consider_v but_o have_v you_o already_o forget_v bellarmin_n rule_n that_o sense_n may_v be_v a_o good_a positive_a evidence_n but_o not_o a_o negative_a i._n e._n it_o may_v discover_v what_o be_v present_a as_o a_o body_n but_o not_o what_o be_v not_o and_o can_v be_v so_o present_a viz._n the_o invisible_a grace_n which_o go_v along_o with_o it_o and_o as_o to_o this_o the_o father_n may_v well_o say_v we_o be_v not_o to_o trust_v our_o sense_n p._n this_o be_v make_v a_o
interpretation_n for_o they_o pr._n no_o such_o matter_n it_o be_v the_o proper_a and_o genuine_a sense_n of_o their_o word_n as_o will_v appear_v from_o hence_o 1._o they_o assert_v the_o very_a same_o as_o to_o the_o chrism_n and_o baptism_n which_o they_o do_v as_o to_o the_o eucharist_n 9_o 2._o that_o which_o they_o say_v our_o sense_n can_v reach_v be_v something_o of_o a_o spiritual_a nature_n and_o not_o a_o body_n and_o here_o the_o case_n be_v extreme_o different_a from_o the_o judgement_n of_o sense_n as_o to_o a_o material_a substance_n and_o if_o you_o please_v i_o will_v evident_o prove_v from_o the_o father_n that_o that_o wherein_o they_o exclude_v the_o judgement_n of_o sense_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v something_o whole_o spiritual_a and_o immaterial_a p._n no_o no_o we_o have_v be_v long_o enough_o upon_o the_o father_n unless_o their_o evidence_n be_v more_o certain_a one_o way_n or_o other_o for_o my_o part_n i_o believe_v on_o the_o account_n of_o divine_a revelation_n in_o this_o matter_n this_o be_v my_o body_n here_o i_o stick_v and_o the_o father_n agree_v with_o we_o herein_o that_o christ_n word_n be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v in_o a_o figurative_a sense_n pr._n the_o contrary_n have_v be_v so_o plain_o prove_v in_o a_o late_a excellent_a discourse_n of_o transubstantiation_n that_o i_o wonder_v none_o of_o your_o party_n have_v yet_o undertake_v to_o answer_v it_o but_o they_o write_v on_o as_o if_o no_o such_o treatise_n have_v appear_v i_o shall_v therefore_o wave_v all_o the_o proof_n that_o be_v there_o produce_v till_o some_o tolerable_a answer_n be_v give_v to_o they_o p._n methinks_v you_o have_v take_v a_o great_a liberty_n of_o talk_v about_o the_o father_n as_o though_o they_o be_v all_o on_o your_o side_n but_o our_o late_a author_n assure_v we_o to_o the_o contrary_a and_o i_o hope_v i_o may_v now_o make_v use_n of_o they_o to_o show_v that_o transubstantiation_n be_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n pr._n with_o all_o my_o heart_n i_o even_o long_o to_o hear_v what_o they_o can_v say_v in_o a_o matter_n i_o think_v so_o clear_a on_o our_o side_n p._n well_o sir_n i_o begin_v with_o the_o consensus_fw-la veterum_fw-la write_v by_o one_o that_o profess_v himself_o a_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n pr._n make_v what_o you_o can_v of_o he_o now_o you_o have_v he_o but_o i_o will_v meddle_v with_o no_o personal_a thing_n i_o desire_v to_o hear_v his_o argument_n p._n what_o say_v you_o to_o r._n selomo_n interpret_n the_o 72._o psal._n v._n 16._o of_o wafer_n in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o messiah_n to_o r._n moses_n 23._o haddarsan_n on_o gen._n 39_o 1._o and_o on_o psal._n 136._o 25_o to_o r._n cahana_n on_o gen._n 49._o 1._o who_o be_v long_o before_o the_o nativity_n of_o christ_n r._n johai_n on_o numb_a 28._o 2._o and_o to_o r._n judas_n who_o be_v many_o year_n before_o christ_n come_v pr._n can_v you_o hold_v your_o countenance_n when_o you_o repeat_v these_o thing_n but_o any_o thing_n must_v pass_v from_o a_o new_a convert_n what_o think_v you_o of_o r._n cahana_n and_o r._n judas_n who_o live_v so_o long_o before_o our_o saviour_n when_o we_o know_v that_o the_o jew_n have_v no_o write_n preserve_v near_o to_o our_o saviour_n time_n beside_o the_o bible_n and_o some_o say_v the_o paraphrast_n upon_o it_o i_o will_v have_v be_v glad_a to_o have_v see_v these_o testimony_n take_v from_o their_o original_a author_n and_o not_o from_o galatinus_n who_o be_v know_v to_o have_v be_v a_o notorious_a plagiary_n as_o to_o the_o main_a of_o his_o book_n and_o of_o little_a or_o no_o credit_n as_o to_o the_o rest_n but_o it_o be_v ridieulous_a to_o produce_v the_o testimony_n of_o jewish_a rabbin_n for_o transubstantiation_n when_o it_o be_v so_o well_o know_v that_o it_o be_v one_o of_o their_o great_a objection_n against_o christianity_n as_o teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o joseph_n albo_n and_o other_o but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o christian_a father_n p._n will_v not_o you_o let_v a_o man_n show_v a_o little_a jewish_a learning_n upon_o occasion_n but_o if_o you_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o the_o father_n you_o shall_v have_v enough_o of_o they_o for_o i_o have_v a_o large_a catalogue_n of_o they_o to_o produce_v from_o the_o consensus_fw-la veterum_fw-la nubes_fw-la testium_fw-la and_o the_o single_a sheet_n which_o general_o agree_v pr._n with_o coccius_n or_o bellarmin_n you_o mean_v but_o before_o you_o produce_v they_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o you_o intend_v to_o prove_v by_o they_o p._n the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n pr._n as_o to_o what_o p._n what_o have_v we_o be_v about_o all_o this_o while_n pr._n transubstantiation_n will_v you_o prove_v that_o p._n why_o do_v you_o suspect_v i_o before_o i_o begin_v pr._n i_o have_v some_o reason_n for_o it_o let_v we_o first_o agree_v what_o we_o mean_v by_o it_o do_v you_o mean_v the_o same_o which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v by_o it_o in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n p._n what_o can_v we_o mean_v else_o pr._n let_v we_o first_o see_v what_o that_o be_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n declare_v that_o the_o same_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n be_v real_o true_o and_o substantial_o present_a in_o the_o eucharist_n after_o consecration_n under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n and_o the_o roman_a catechism_n say_v it_o be_v the_o very_a body_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n and_o sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o god._n 2._o that_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_o consecration_n lose_v their_o proper_a substance_n and_o be_v change_v into_o that_o very_a substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n and_o a_o anathema_n be_v denounce_v against_o those_o who_o affirm_v the_o contrary_n now_o if_o you_o please_v proceed_v to_o your_o proof_n p._n i_o begin_v with_o the_o ancient_a liturgy_n of_o st._n peter_n st._n 27._o james_n and_o st._n matthew_n pr._n be_v you_o in_o earnest_n p._n why_o what_o be_v the_o matter_n pr._n do_v not_o you_o know_v that_o these_o be_v reject_v as_o supposititious_a by_o your_o own_o writer_n and_o a_o very_a late_a and_o learned_a dr._n of_o the_o sorbon_n have_v give_v full_a and_o clear_a evidence_n 1686._o of_o it_o p._n suppose_v they_o be_v yet_o they_o may_v be_v of_o antiquity_n enough_o to_o give_v some_o competent_a testimony_n as_o to_o tradition_n pr._n no_o such_o matter_n for_o he_o prove_v st._n peter_n be_v liturgy_n to_o be_v late_a than_o the_o sacramentary_a of_o st._n gregory_n and_o so_o can_v prove_v nothing_o for_o the_o first_o 600_o year_n and_o the_o aethiopic_a 22._o liturgy_n or_o st._n matthew'_v he_o show_v to_o be_v very_o late_o that_o of_o st._n james_n he_o think_v to_o have_v be_v some_o time_n before_o the_o five_o general_a council_n but_o by_o no_o mean_n to_o have_v be_v st._n 23._o james_n p._n what_o think_v you_o of_o the_o act_n of_o st._n andrew_n and_o what_o he_o say_v therein_o about_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n 30._o pr._n i_o think_v he_o say_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o i_o be_o ashamed_a to_o find_v one_o who_o have_v so_o long_o be_v a_o minister_n in_o this_o church_n so_o extreme_o ignorant_a as_o to_o bring_v these_o for_o good_a authority_n which_o be_v reject_v with_o scorn_n by_o all_o man_n of_o learning_n and_o ingenuity_n among_o you_o p._n i_o be_o afraid_a you_o grow_v angry_a pr._n i_o confess_v ignorance_n and_o confidence_n together_o be_v very_a provoke_a thing_n especial_o when_o a_o man_n in_o year_n pretend_v to_o leave_v our_o church_n on_o such_o pitiful_a ground_n p._n but_o he_o do_v produce_v better_a authority_n pr._n if_o he_o do_v they_o be_v not_o to_o his_o purpose_n p._n that_o must_v be_v try_v what_o say_v you_o to_o ignatius_n i_o hope_v you_o allow_v his_o epistle_n pr._n i_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o the_o contrary_n but_o what_o say_v he_o p._n he_o say_v that_o some_o heretic_n than_o will_v not_o receive_v the_o eucharist_n and_o oblation_n because_o they_o will_v not_o confess_v the_o eucharist_n to_o be_v the_o flesh_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ._n and_o this_o be_v 109._o produce_v by_o both_o author_n pr._n the_o person_n ignatius_n speak_v of_o be_v such_o as_o deny_v christ_n to_o have_v any_o true_a body_n and_o therefore_o do_v forbear_v the_o eucharist_n because_o it_o be_v say_v to_o be_v his_o body_n and_o in_o what_o ever_o sense_n it_o be_v take_v it_o still_o suppose_a that_o which_o they_o deny_v viz._n that_o he_o have_v a_o true_a body_n for_o if_o it_o be_v figurative_o understand_v it_o be_v as_o contrary_a to_o their_o doctrine_n as_o if_o it_o be_v literal_o for_o a_o figure_n must_v
shape_n because_o of_o this_o no_o we_o compare_v these_o with_o the_o necessary_a attribute_n of_o god_n and_o from_o thence_o see_v a_o necessity_n of_o interpret_n these_o expression_n in_o a_o sense_n agreeable_a to_o the_o divine_a nature_n so_o if_o other_o expression_n of_o scripture_n seem_v to_o affirm_v that_o of_o a_o body_n which_o be_v inconsistent_a with_o the_o nature_n of_o it_o as_o that_o it_o be_v not_o visible_a or_o may_v be_v in_o many_o place_n at_o once_o there_o be_v some_o reason_n for_o i_o to_o understand_v they_o in_o a_o sense_n agreeable_a to_o the_o essential_a property_n of_o a_o body_n 4._o there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o our_o not_o apprehend_v the_o manner_n how_o a_o thing_n be_v and_o the_o apprehend_v the_o impossibility_n of_o the_o thing_n itself_o and_o this_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o the_o distinction_n of_o thing_n above_o our_o reason_n and_o contrary_a to_o our_o reason_n if_o the_o question_n be_v how_o the_o same_o individual_a nature_n can_v be_v communicate_v to_o three_o distinct_a person_n we_o may_v just_o answer_v we_o can_v apprehend_v the_o manner_n of_o it_o no_o more_o than_o we_o can_v the_o divine_a immensity_n or_o a_o infinite_a amplitude_n without_o extension_n but_o if_o any_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v there_o be_v a_o impossibility_n in_o the_o thing_n he_o must_v prove_v that_o the_o divine_a nature_n can_v communicate_v itself_o no_o otherwise_o than_o a_o finite_a individual_a nature_n can_v for_o all_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o common_a nature_n may_v be_v communicate_v to_o three_o person_n and_o so_o the_o whole_a controversy_n rest_v on_o this_o single_a point_n as_o to_o reason_n whether_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o person_n be_v to_o be_v judge_v and_o measure_v as_o human_a nature_n and_o person_n be_v and_o in_o this_o i_o think_v we_o have_v the_o advantage_n in_o point_n of_o reason_n of_o the_o anti-trinitarians_a themselves_o although_o they_o pretend_v never_o so_o much_o to_o it_o p._n good_a night_n sir_n i_o perceive_v you_o be_v in_o for_o a_o hour_n and_o i_o have_v not_o so_o much_o time_n to_o spare_v to_o hear_v such_o long_a preachment_n for_o my_o part_n talk_v of_o sense_n and_o reason_n as_o long_o as_o you_o will_v i_o be_o for_o the_o catholic_n church_n pr._n and_o true_o she_o be_v mighty_o oblige_v to_o you_o for_o oppopose_v her_o authority_n to_o sense_n and_o reason_n p._n call_v it_o what_o you_o will_v i_o be_o for_o the_o church_n authority_n and_o the_o talk_n of_o sense_n and_o reason_n be_v but_o cant_v without_o that_o pr._n the_o matter_n be_v then_o come_v to_o a_o fine_a pass_n i_o think_v cant_v have_v rather_o be_v that_o which_o be_v speak_v against_o sense_n or_o reason_n but_o i_o pray_v sir_n what_o say_v you_o to_o what_o i_o have_v be_v discourse_v p._n to_o tell_v you_o truth_n i_o do_v not_o mind_v it_o for_o as_o soon_o as_o i_o hear_v whither_o you_o be_v go_v i_o clap_v fast_o hold_v of_o the_o church_n as_o a_o man_n will_v do_v of_o a_o mast_n in_o a_o storm_n and_o resolve_v not_o to_o let_v go_v my_o hold_n pr._n what!_o although_o you_o shall_v sink_v together_o with_o it_o p._n if_o i_o do_v the_o church_n must_v answer_v for_o it_o for_o i_o must_v sink_v or_o swim_v with_o it_o pr._n what_o comfort_n will_v that_o be_v to_o you_o when_o you_o be_v call_v to_o a_o account_n for_o yourself_o but_o if_o you_o stick_v here_o it_o be_v to_o no_o purpose_n to_o talk_v any_o more_o with_o you_o p._n i_o think_v so_o too_o but_o now_o we_o be_v in_o methinks_v we_o shall_v not_o give_v over_o thus_o especial_o since_o i_o begin_v this_o dialogue_n about_o the_o trinity_n and_o transubstantiation_n pr._n if_o you_o do_v we_o know_v the_o reason_n of_o it_o but_o i_o be_o resolve_v to_o push_v this_o matter_n now_o as_o far_o as_o it_o will_v go_v and_o either_o to_o convince_v you_o of_o your_o mistake_n or_o at_o least_o to_o make_v you_o give_v it_o over_o whole_o p._n but_o if_o i_o must_v go_v on_o in_o my_o parallel_n i_o will_v proceed_v in_o my_o own_o way_n i_o mention_v three_o thing_n scripture_n reason_n and_o tradition_n and_o i_o will_v begin_v with_o tradition_n pr._n this_o be_v somewhat_o a_o uncouth_a method_n but_o i_o must_v be_v content_a to_o follow_v your_o conduct_n p._n no_o sir_n the_o method_n be_v very_o natural_a for_o in_o mystery_n above_o reason_n the_o safe_a way_n be_v to_o trust_v tradition_n and_o none_o can_v give_v so_o good_a account_n of_o that_o as_o the_o church_n pr._n take_v your_o own_o way_n but_o i_o perceive_v tradition_n with_o you_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o present_a church_n which_o be_v as_o hard_a to_o conceive_v as_o that_o a_o nunc_fw-la stans_fw-la shall_v be_v a_o eternal_a succession_n p._n as_o to_o compare_v tradition_n i_o say_v that_o the_o mystery_n of_o the_o trinity_n be_v question_v in_o the_o very_a infancy_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o arian_n prevail_v much_o against_o it_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o four_o age_n but_o transubstantiation_n lie_v unquestioned_a and_o quiet_a for_o a_o long_a time_n and_o when_o it_o come_v into_o debate_n there_o be_v no_o such_o opposition_n as_o that_o of_o arius_n to_o call_v in_o question_n the_o authority_n of_o its_o tradition_n the_o church_n receive_v it_o unanimous_o and_o in_o that_o sense_n continue_v till_o rash_a reason_n attempt_v to_o fathom_v the_o unlimited_a miracle_n and_o mystery_n of_o god._n pr._n i_o stand_v amaze_v at_o the_o boldness_n of_o this_o assertion_n but_o i_o find_v your_o present_a writer_n be_v very_o little_o verse_v in_o antiquity_n which_o make_v they_o offer_v thing_n concern_v the_o ancient_a church_n especial_o as_o to_o transubstantiation_n which_o those_o who_o have_v be_v modest_a and_o learned_a will_v have_v be_v ashamed_a of_o p._n i_o hope_v i_o may_v make_v use_n of_o they_o to_o justify_v myself_o though_o you_o slight_v they_o i_o mean_v the_o consensus_fw-la veterum_fw-la the_o nubes_fw-la testium_fw-la and_o the_o single_a sheet_n about_o transubstantiation_n pr._n take_v they_o all_o and_o as_o many_o more_o as_o you_o please_v i_o be_o sure_a you_o can_v never_o prove_v transubstantiation_n to_o have_v be_v and_o the_o trinity_n not_o to_o have_v be_v the_o constant_a belief_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n p._n let_v i_o manage_v my_o own_o argument_n first_o pr._n all_o the_o reason_n in_o the_o world._n p._n my_o argument_n be_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n meet_v with_o far_o more_o opposition_n than_o transubstantiation_n do_v pr._n good_a reason_n for_o it_o because_o it_o be_v never_o hear_v of_o then_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o circulation_n of_o the_o blood_n lie_v very_o quiet_a from_o the_o day_n of_o hypocrates_n to_o the_o time_n of_o parisanus_n who_o be_v there_o that_o oppose_a thing_n before_o they_o be_v think_v of_o p._n that_o be_v your_o great_a mistake_n for_o transubstantiation_n be_v very_o well_o know_v but_o they_o do_v not_o happen_v to_o speak_v so_o much_o of_o it_o because_o it_o be_v not_o oppose_v pr._n but_o how_o be_v it_o possible_a for_o you_o to_o know_v it_o be_v so_o well_o know_v if_o they_o speak_v not_o of_o it_o p._n i_o do_v not_o say_v they_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o it_o but_o not_o so_o much_o or_o not_o half_a so_o express_v because_o it_o be_v not_o customary_a for_o man_n to_o argue_v unquestionable_a truth_n pr._n but_o still_o how_o shall_v it_o be_v know_v that_o the_o church_n receive_v this_o doctrine_n unanimous_o if_o they_o do_v not_o speak_v express_o of_o it_o but_o since_o you_o offer_v at_o no_o proof_n of_o your_o assertion_n i_o will_v make_v a_o fair_a offer_n to_o you_o and_o undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o father_n speak_v express_o against_o it_o p._n how_o be_v that_o express_o against_o it_o god_n forbid_v pr._n make_v of_o it_o what_o you_o please_v and_o answer_v what_o you_o can_v i_o begin_v with_o my_o proof_n p._n nay_o then_o we_o be_v in_o for_o all_o night_n i_o be_o now_o full_a of_o business_n and_o can_v hearken_v to_o tedious_a proof_n out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o have_v be_v canvas_v a_o hundred_o time_n pr._n i_o will_v be_v as_o short_a as_o i_o can_v and_o i_o promise_v you_o not_o to_o transcribe_v any_o that_o have_v hitherto_o write_v nor_o to_o urge_v you_o with_o any_o spurious_a writer_n or_o lame_a citation_n at_o second_o or_o three_o hand_n and_o i_o shall_v produce_v nothing_o but_o what_o i_o have_v read_v consider_v and_o weigh_v in_o the_o author_n themselves_o p._n since_o it_o must_v be_v so_o let_v i_o hear_v your_o doughty_a argument_n which_o i_o can_v as_o well_o turn_v against_o the_o trinity_n for_o that_o be_v
at_o be_v to_o prove_v a_o real_a union_n between_o christ_n and_o his_o people_n that_o christ_n be_v in_o they_o more_o than_o by_o mere_a consent_n and_o to_o prove_v this_o he_o lay_v hold_v of_o those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n my_o flesh_n be_v meat_n indeed_o etc._n etc._n but_o the_o substantial_a change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n signify_v nothing_o to_o his_o purpose_n and_o bellarmin_n never_o so_o much_o as_o mention_n hilary_n in_o his_o proof_n of_o transubstantiation_n but_o only_o for_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o i_o must_v add_v something_o more_o viz._n that_o hilary_n be_v one_o of_o the_o first_o who_o draw_v any_o argument_n from_o the_o literal_a sense_n of_o john_n 6._o i_o do_v not_o say_v who_o do_v by_o way_n of_o accommodation_n apply_v they_o to_o the_o sacrament_n which_o other_o may_v do_v before_o he_o but_o yet_o there_o be_v some_o of_o the_o elder_a father_n who_o do_v whole_o exclude_v a_o literal_a sense_n as_o tertullian_n look_v on_o it_o as_o a_o absurdity_n levit._n that_o christ_n shall_v be_v think_v true_o to_o give_v his_o flesh_n to_o eat_v quasi_fw-la veer_fw-la carnem_fw-la svam_fw-la illis_fw-la edendam_fw-la determinasset_fw-la and_o origen_n say_v it_o be_v a_o kill_a letter_n if_o those_o word_n be_v literal_o understand_v but_o this_o be_v to_o run_v into_o another_o debate_n whereas_o our_o business_n be_v about_o transubstantiation_n if_o you_o have_v any_o more_o let_v we_o now_o examine_v their_o testimony_n p._n what_o say_v you_o then_o to_o st._n ambrose_n who_o speak_v home_o to_o the_o business_n for_o he_o make_v the_o change_n to_o be_v above_o nature_n 9_o and_o into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n there_o be_v long_a citation_n out_o of_o he_o but_o in_o these_o word_n lie_v the_o whole_a strength_n of_o they_o pr._n i_o answer_v several_a thing_n for_o clear_v of_o his_o meaning_n 1._o that_o st._n ambrose_n do_v parallel_v the_o change_n in_o the_o eucharist_n with_o that_o in_o baptism_n and_o to_o prove_v regeneration_n therein_o he_o argue_v from_o the_o miraculous_a conception_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o womb_n of_o the_o virgin_n but_o in_o baptism_n no_o body_n suppose_v 3._o the_o substance_n of_o the_o water_n to_o be_v take_v away_o and_o therefore_o it_o can_v hold_v as_o to_o the_o other_o from_o the_o supernatural_a change_n which_o may_v be_v only_o with_o respect_n to_o such_o a_o divine_a influence_n which_o it_o have_v not_o before_o consecration_n 2._o he_o do_v purposely_o talk_v obscure_o and_o mystical_o about_o this_o matter_n as_o the_o father_n be_v wont_a to_o do_v to_o those_o who_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v to_o these_o mystery_n sometime_o one_o will_v think_v he_o mean_v that_o the_o element_n be_v change_v into_o christ_n individual_a body_n bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n and_o yet_o present_o after_o he_o distinguish_v between_o the_o true_a flesh_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v crucify_v and_o bury_v and_o the_o sacrament_n of_o his_o flesh._n if_o this_o be_v the_o same_o what_o need_v any_o distinction_n and_o that_o this_o sacramentum_fw-la carnis_fw-la be_v mean_v of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v plain_a by_o what_o follow_v for_o he_o cite_v christ_n word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n 3._o he_o best_o explain_v his_o own_o meaning_n when_o he_o say_v not_o long_o after_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v a_o spiritual_a body_n or_o a_o body_n produce_v by_o the_o divine_a spirit_n and_o so_o he_o parallel_v it_o with_o that_o spiritual_a food_n which_o the_o israelite_n do_v eat_v in_o the_o wilderness_n and_o no_o man_n will_v say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o manna_n be_v then_o lose_v and_o since_o your_o author_n make_v the_o same_o st._n ambrose_n to_o have_v write_v the_o book_n de_fw-fr sacramentis_fw-la there_o be_v a_o notable_a passage_n therein_o which_o help_v to_o explain_v this_o for_o there_o he_o say_v express_o non_fw-la iste_fw-la 4._o panis_n est_fw-la qui_fw-la vadit_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la sed_fw-la ille_fw-la panis_n vitoe_n eternoe_n qui_fw-la animoe_v nostroe_v substantiam_fw-la fulcit_fw-la it_o be_v not_o the_o bread_n which_o pass_v into_o the_o body_n but_o the_o bread_n of_o eternal_a life_n which_o strengthen_v the_o substance_n of_o our_o soul._n where_o he_o not_o only_o call_v it_o bread_n after_o consecration_n which_o go_v to_o our_o nourishment_n but_o he_o distinguish_v it_o from_o the_o bread_n of_o eternal_a life_n which_o support_v the_o soul_n which_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o divine_a grace_n and_o not_o of_o any_o bodily_a substance_n p._n i_o perceive_v you_o will_v not_o leave_v we_o one_o father_n of_o the_o whole_a number_n pr._n not_o one_o and_o i_o hope_v this_o give_v a_o incomparable_a advantage_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n in_o point_n of_o tradition_n above_o transubstantiation_n when_o i_o have_v not_o only_o prove_v that_o the_o great_a of_o the_o father_n express_o deny_v it_o but_o that_o there_o be_v not_o one_o in_o the_o whole_a number_n who_o affirm_v it_o for_o although_o there_o be_v some_o difference_n in_o the_o way_n of_o explain_v how_o the_o eucharist_n be_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n yet_o not_o one_o of_o they_o hitherto_o produce_v do_v give_v any_o countenance_n to_o your_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n which_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n declare_v to_o have_v be_v the_o constant_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v as_o little_a ground_n to_o believe_v that_o as_o transubstantiation_n itself_o and_o so_o much_o as_o to_o this_o debate_n concern_v the_o compare_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o transubstantiation_n in_o point_n of_o tradition_n if_o you_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o say_v further_o as_o to_o scripture_n and_o reason_n i_o shall_v be_v ready_a to_o give_v you_o satisfaction_n the_o next_o opportunity_n finis_fw-la book_n late_o print_v for_o w._n rogers_n the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n true_o represent_v in_o answer_n to_o a_o book_n entitle_v a_o papist_n misrepresent_v and_o represent_v etc._n etc._n quarto_n three_o edition_n a_o answer_n to_o a_o discourse_n entitle_v papist_n protest_v against_o protestant_a popery_n be_v a_o vindication_n of_o papist_n not_o misrepresent_v by_o protestant_n 4to_n second_o edition_n a_o answer_n to_o the_o amicable_a accommodation_n of_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o representer_n and_o the_o answerer_n quarto_fw-la a_o view_n of_o the_o whole_a controversy_n between_o the_o representer_n and_o the_o answerer_n with_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o representer_n last_o reply_n 4to_fw-la the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o transubstantiation_n compare_v as_o to_o scripture_n reason_n and_o tradition_n in_o a_o new_a dialogue_n between_o a_o protestant_n and_o a_o papist_n the_o first_o part_n wherein_o a_o answer_n be_v give_v to_o the_o late_a proof_n of_o the_o antiquity_n of_o transubstantiation_n in_o the_o book_n call_v consensus_fw-la veterum_fw-la and_o nubes_fw-la testium_fw-la etc._n etc._n quarto_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o transubstantiation_n compare_v as_o to_o scripture_n reason_n and_o tradition_n in_o a_o new_a dialogue_n between_o a_o protestant_n and_o a_o papist_n the_o second_o part_n wherein_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n be_v show_v to_o be_v agreeable_a to_o scripture_n and_o reason_n and_o transubstantiation_n repugnant_a to_o both_o quarto_fw-la a_o discourse_n concern_v the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n in_o which_o the_o bishop_n of_o oxford_n true_a and_o only_a notion_n of_o idolatry_n be_v consider_v and_o confute_v 4to_fw-la the_o absolute_a impossibility_n of_o transubstantiation_n demonstrate_v 4to_fw-la a_o letter_n to_o the_o superior_n whether_o bishop_n or_o priest_n which_o approve_v or_o licence_n the_o popish_a book_n in_o england_n particular_o to_o those_o of_o the_o jesuit_n order_n concern_v lewis_n sabran_n a_o jesuit_n a_o preservative_n against_o popery_n be_v some_o plain_a direction_n to_o unlearned_a protestant_n how_o to_o dispute_v with_o romish_a priest_n the_o first_o part._n the_o four_o edition_n the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o preservative_n against_o popery_n show_v how_o contrary_a popery_n be_v to_o the_o true_a end_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n fit_v for_o the_o instruction_n of_o unlearned_a protestant_n the_o second_o edition_n a_o vindication_n of_o both_o part_n of_o the_o preservative_n against_o popery_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o cavil_n of_o lewis_n sabran_n jesuit_n a_o discourse_n concern_v the_o nature_n unity_n ae_v communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n wherein_o most_o of_o the_o controversy_n relate_v to_o the_o church_n be_v brief_o and_o plain_o state_v the_o first_o part._n 4to_fw-la these_o four_o last_o by_o william_n sherlock_n d._n d._n master_n of_o the_o temple_n imprimatur_fw-la guil._n needham_n
god._n but_o those_o who_o consider_v and_o know_v what_o god_n be_v and_o what_o he_o must_v be_v if_o he_o be_v god_n will_v find_v far_o great_a difficulty_n in_o make_v man_n to_o be_v god_n than_o in_o believe_v god_n to_o be_v make_v man._n for_o this_o imply_v no_o great_a difficulty_n than_o mere_o as_o to_o our_o conception_n how_o a_o infinite_a be_v can_v be_v so_o unite_v to_o a_o finite_a as_o to_o become_v one_o person_n which_o imply_v no_o repugnancy_n but_o only_o some_o thing_n above_o our_o capacity_n to_o comprehend_v and_o we_o confess_v ourselves_o puzzle_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o conceive_v how_o a_o finite_a spitit_fw-la which_o can_v pass_v through_o a_o body_n can_v be_v so_o unite_v to_o it_o as_o to_o make_v a_o man_n by_o that_o union_n yet_o we_o all_o acknowledge_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o but_o to_o suppose_v a_o creature_n capable_a of_o be_v make_v god_n be_v to_o overthrow_v the_o essential_a difference_n between_o god_n and_o his_o creature_n and_o the_o infinite_a distance_n between_o they_o which_o be_v of_o very_o pernicious_a consequence_n as_o to_o the_o great_a end_n of_o the_o christian_a religion_n which_o be_v to_o reform_v the_o world_n and_o to_o restore_v the_o distinction_n between_o god_n and_o his_o creature_n which_o by_o the_o prevalency_n of_o idolatry_n be_v almost_o lose_v in_o the_o world_n the_o supreme_a god_n be_v hardly_o discern_v in_o such_o a_o crowd_n of_o create_a and_o fictitious_a gods._n and_o this_o very_a argument_n be_v enough_o to_o turn_v my_o stomach_n against_o socinianism_n or_o arianism_n p._n i_o have_v think_v all_o man_n of_o sense_n among_o you_o have_v be_v socinian_o i_o have_v often_o hear_v they_o charge_v with_o be_v so_o pr._n you_o see_v how_o gross_o you_o be_v deceive_v notwithstanding_o your_o pretence_n to_o infallibility_n i_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o any_o deep_a reach_n but_o i_o see_v reason_n enough_o to_o be_v no_o socinian_n p._n let_v we_o return_v to_o our_o matter_n in_o hand_n what_o say_v you_o to_o those_o text_n which_o be_v say_v to_o be_v inconsistent_a with_o the_o literal_a sense_n of_o those_o before_o mention_v which_o relate_v to_o the_o unity_n between_o father_n and_o son_n pr._n what_o text_n do_v you_o mean_v p._n what_o say_v you_o to_o joh._n 10._o from_o the_o 30._o to_o the_o 39_o pr._n i_o wonder_v what_o it_o be_v produce_v for_o p._n it_o be_v say_v joh._n 10._o 30._o i_o and_o my_o father_n be_v one_o now_o it_o be_v high_o unreasonable_a to_o interpret_v these_o word_n literal_o because_o of_o those_o which_o follow_v pr._n how_o do_v that_o appear_v for_o v_o 31._o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o jew_n take_v up_o stone_n to_o stone_n he_o which_o show_v that_o they_o look_v on_o he_o as_o speak_v blasphemy_n but_o what_o blasphemy_n be_v it_o for_o christ_n to_o declare_v a_o unity_n of_o consent_n between_o he_o and_o his_o father_n which_o in_o truth_n be_v nothing_o but_o do_v his_o father_n will_n therefore_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o the_o jew_n do_v apprehend_v more_o in_o those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o they_o explain_v themselves_o v_o 33._o what_o they_o understand_v by_o they_o because_o that_o thou_o be_v a_o man_n make_v thyself_o god._n which_o show_v that_o they_o think_v not_o a_o unity_n of_o consent_n but_o of_o nature_n be_v mean_v p._n but_o christ_n answer_n show_v that_o he_o speak_v only_o of_o a_o god_n by_o office_n and_o not_o by_o nature_n v_o 34._o jesus_n answer_v they_o be_v it_o not_o write_v in_o your_o law_n i_o say_v you_o be_v god_n pr._n i_o pray_v go_v on_o and_o see_v how_o christ_n argue_v v_o 35_o 36._o if_o he_o call_v they_o god_n unto_o who_o the_o word_n of_o god_n come_v and_o the_o scripture_n can_v be_v break_v say_v you_o of_o he_o who_o the_o father_n have_v send_v into_o the_o world_n thou_o blaspheme_v because_o i_o say_v i_o be_o the_o son_n of_o god_n p._n this_o only_a show_n that_o christ_n have_v great_a reason_n to_o be_v call_v god_n but_o not_o that_o he_o be_v so_o by_o nature_n pr._n i_o pray_v go_v on_o still_o v_o 37_o 38._o if_o i_o do_v not_o the_o work_v of_o my_o father_n believe_v i_o not_o but_o if_o i_o do_v though_o you_o believe_v not_o i_o believe_v the_o work_n that_o you_o may_v know_v and_o believe_v that_o the_o father_n be_v in_o i_o and_o i_o in_o he_o p._n be_v it_o not_o say_v elsewhere_o that_o he_o that_o keep_v his_o commandment_n dwell_v in_o he_o and_o he_o in_o he_o 1_o joh._n 3._o 24._o will_v you_o hence_o infer_v a_o unity_n of_o nature_n between_o christ_n and_o believer_n pr._n i_o do_v not_o lay_v the_o weight_n on_o the_o phrase_n but_o as_o it_o be_v the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o dispute_n between_o christ_n and_o the_o jew_n and_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o this_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o three_o conference_n between_o christ_n and_o the_o jew_n upon_o this_o argument_n the_o first_o be_v john_n 5._o and_o then_o from_o christ_n saying_n the_o father_n work_v hitherto_o and_o i_o work_v v_o 17._o the_o jew_n infer_v v_o 18._o that_o he_o make_v himself_o equal_a with_o god._n in_o the_o second_o conference_n john_n 8._o he_o say_v before_o abraham_n be_v i_o be_o v_o 58._o and_o then_o the_o jew_n take_v up_o stone_n to_o cast_v at_o he_o after_o this_o follow_v this_o three_o conference_n john._n 10._o and_o this_o run_v again_o into_o the_o same_o point_n that_o he_o be_v a_o man_n make_v himself_o god._n and_o these_o conference_n be_v all_o public_a in_o or_o near_o the_o temple_n and_o this_o last_o be_v in_o solomon_n porch_n john_n 10._o 23._o a_o place_n of_o great_a resort_n and_o near_o the_o place_n where_o the_o sanhedrim_n sit_v who_o be_v the_o judge_n in_o the_o case_n of_o blasphemy_n now_o the_o force_n of_o my_o argument_n from_o hence_o lie_v in_o these_o thing_n 1._o that_o christ_n certain_o know_v that_o the_o jew_n do_v think_v by_o his_o discourse_n that_o he_o make_v himself_o equal_a with_o god._n 2._o that_o if_o it_o be_v not_o true_a it_o be_v notorious_a blasphemy_n and_o so_o esteem_v by_o the_o jew_n 3._o that_o such_o a_o mistake_n ought_v to_o have_v be_v present_o correct_v and_o in_o the_o plain_a manner_n as_o we_o find_v it_o be_v do_v by_o st._n paul_n when_o the_o man_n of_o lystra_n say_v the_o god_n be_v come_v down_o to_o we_o in_o the_o likeness_n of_o man_n for_o he_o run_v in_o present_o among_o they_o and_o say_v we_o be_v man_n of_o like_a passion_n with_o you_o act_v 14._o 11_o 15._o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o i_o to_o think_v that_o if_o christ_n have_v know_v himself_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a man_n he_o will_v have_v suffer_v the_o jew_n to_o have_v run_v away_o with_o such_o a_o mistake_n as_o this_o without_o give_v they_o the_o clear_a and_o plain_a information_n whereas_o in_o all_o his_o answer_n he_o vindicate_v himself_o and_o endeavour_n rather_o to_o fasten_v those_o impression_n upon_o they_o as_o appear_v by_o this_o conclusion_n of_o the_o last_o conference_n that_o you_o may_v know_v and_o believe_v that_o the_o father_n be_v in_o i_o and_o i_o in_o he_o do_v this_o look_n like_o correct_v a_o dangerous_a mistake_n in_o the_o jew_n and_o be_v it_o not_o rather_o a_o justification_n of_o that_o sense_n which_o they_o take_v his_o word_n in_o and_o in_o the_o first_o conference_n john_n 5._o our_o saviour_n be_v so_o far_o from_o do_v as_o st._n paul_n do_v that_o he_o challenge_v divine_a honour_n as_o due_a to_o himself_o that_o all_o man_n shall_v honour_v the_o son_n as_o they_o honour_v the_o father_n v_o 23._o from_o whence_o it_o follow_v that_o christ_n must_v be_v charge_v as_o one_o who_o be_v a_o mere_a man_n do_v affect_v divine_a honour_n or_o else_o that_o be_v god_n as_o well_o as_o man_n he_o look_v on_o it_o as_o just_o due_a to_o he_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o sense_n do_v your_o friend_n the_o socinian_o make_v of_o those_o word_n of_o st._n paul_n phil._n 2._o 6_o 7._o who_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o god_n think_v it_o not_o robbery_n to_o be_v equal_a with_o god_n but_o make_v himself_o of_o no_o reputation_n etc._n etc._n p._n the_o sense_n they_o give_v be_v this_o that_o he_o do_v not_o make_v a_o show_n or_o ostentation_n of_o his_o own_o greatness_n but_o studious_o conceal_v it_o and_o therein_o show_v his_o great_a humility_n pr._n but_o be_v there_o any_o greatness_n like_o that_o of_o divine_a honour_n and_o yet_o this_o he_o challenge_v to_o himself_o p._n but_o he_o know_v what_o the_o father_n design_v he_o for_o and_o so_o speak_v those_o thing_n by_o way_n of_o prediction_n pr._n he_o know_v
no_o creature_n can_v deserve_v divine_a worship_n and_o he_o deliver_v that_o as_o part_v of_o his_o own_o doctrine_n and_o therefore_o those_o word_n where_o he_o be_v say_v to_o make_v himself_o equal_a with_o god_n must_v be_v understand_v of_o nature_n and_o not_o of_o office._n p._n but_o st._n john_n 17._o 22._o say_v that_o christ_n pray_v to_o his_o father_n for_o his_o disciple_n that_o they_o may_v be_v one_o as_o we_o be_v one_o and_o that_o be_v not_o by_o unity_n of_o nature_n pr._n i_o grant_v it_o but_o our_o saviour_n there_o speak_v of_o a_o true_a but_o a_o low_a kind_n of_o unity_n or_o else_o the_o socinian_o must_v think_v every_o believer_n as_o capable_a of_o divine_a honour_n as_o christ_n himself_o if_o they_o take_v those_o word_n strict_o that_o they_o may_v be_v one_o as_o we_o be_v one_o p._n st._n paul_n say_v he_o that_o plant_v and_o he_o that_o water_v be_v one_o 1_o cor._n 3._o 8._o pr._n who_o doubt_v but_o there_o be_v other_o sort_n of_o unity_n beside_o that_o of_o nature_n but_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o unity_n of_o nature_n between_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n if_o we_o have_v no_o better_a argument_n against_o transubstantiation_n we_o will_v give_v over_o dispute_v p._n i_o know_v you_o have_v other_o argument_n for_o the_o trinity_n but_o they_o prove_v as_o little_a without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n as_o from_o those_o place_n where_o christ_n be_v call_v god_n as_o joh._n 1._o 1_o 2._o rom._n 9_o 5_o etc._n etc._n pr._n and_o i_o think_v the_o argument_n from_o those_o place_n very_o good_a and_o strong_a especial_o from_o john_n 1._o 1_o 2_o 3._o and_o it_o seem_v direct_o contrary_a to_o the_o whole_a design_n of_o scripture_n to_o call_v any_o one_o god_n over_o all_o bless_v for_o evermore_o as_o christ_n be_v call_v rom._n 9_o 5._o but_o he_o that_o be_v god_n by_o natuce_n p._n how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o john_n 1._o 1._o relate_v to_o any_o thing_n beyond_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o that_o christ_n the_o word_n be_v before_o john_n the_o baptist_n preach_v pr._n i_o desire_v any_o one_o to_o read_v the_o text_n impartial_o and_o he_o will_v find_v the_o socinian_n sense_n to_o be_v unnatural_a force_v obscure_a and_o jejune_n prove_v a_o thing_n of_o no_o moment_n at_o that_o time_n but_o the_o sense_n we_o give_v to_o be_v strong_a weighty_a consistent_a and_o of_o very_o great_a consequence_n at_o that_o time_n when_o the_o cerinthian_o deny_v the_o divinity_n of_o christ._n the_o sentence_n be_v short_a the_o word_n lofty_a and_o significant_a the_o manner_n of_o beginning_n unusual_a so_o that_o any_o one_o will_v expect_v some_o great_a and_o extraordinary_a matter_n to_o be_v say_v in_o these_o few_o verse_n but_o what_o a_o frustration_n be_v this_o if_o after_o all_o they_o intend_v no_o more_o than_o that_o although_o john_n baptist_n preach_v in_o public_a before_o christ_n yet_o that_o christ_n be_v in_o be_v before_o that_o which_o be_v a_o sense_n so_o mean_a so_o remote_a from_o the_o occasion_n of_o his_o write_n as_o it_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o ancient_n that_o nothing_o but_o a_o miserable_a necessity_n can_v make_v man_n of_o wit_n and_o subtlety_n to_o put_v such_o a_o sense_n upon_o st._n john_n word_n p._n but_o they_o deny_v there_o be_v any_o such_o occasion_n of_o st._n john_n writing_n as_o the_o cerinthian_o heresy_n at_o that_o time_n pr._n i_o know_v socinus_n do_v so_o but_o he_o may_v as_o well_o have_v deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o person_n as_o cerinthus_n and_o i_o think_v the_o cerinthian_a heresy_n not_o only_o to_o have_v be_v the_o occasion_n of_o st._n john_n write_n but_o that_o the_o understanding_n of_o it_o give_v the_o great_a and_o true_a light_n to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o evangelist_n show_v the_o force_n and_o importance_n of_o they_o p._n wherein_o i_o pray_v do_v that_o heresy_n consist_v pr._n i_o shall_v not_o meddle_v with_o other_o part_n of_o it_o but_o only_o what_o relate_v to_o the_o present_a subject_n and_o that_o lay_v in_o these_o thing_n 1._o that_o there_o be_v a_o supreme_a and_o unknown_a father_n who_o be_v before_o the_o beginning_n and_o therefore_o they_o call_v he_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d who_o be_v the_o fountain_n of_o all_o emanation_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 1._o 19_o 2._o that_o the_o world_n be_v not_o make_v by_o he_o but_o by_o a_o power_n at_o a_o distance_n from_o he_o call_v demiurgus_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 25._o and_o in_o the_o egyptian_a school_n where_o cerinthus_n be_v educate_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d word_n be_v one_o of_o the_o intermediate_v emanation_n between_o the_o father_n and_o the_o demiurgus_n iren._n l._n 1._o c._n 23._o 3._o that_o this_o world_n be_v in_o a_o state_n of_o darkness_n and_o confusion_n as_o to_o the_o supreme_a father_n of_o all_o only_o some_o few_o have_v some_o beam_n of_o light_n from_o he_o by_o which_o they_o know_v he_o 4._o that_o jesus_n be_v a_o mere_a man_n bear_v as_o other_o man_n be_v of_o joseph_n and_o mary_n but_o of_o extraordinary_a goodness_n wisdom_n and_o sanctity_n 5._o that_o the_o supreme_a father_n at_o his_o baptism_n do_v send_v down_o a_o divine_a power_n upon_o he_o in_o the_o shape_n of_o a_o dove_n which_o enable_v he_o to_o declare_v the_o unknown_a father_n and_o to_o work_v miracle_n which_o return_v to_o its_o own_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o fullness_n above_o when_o jesus_n suffer_v this_o be_v a_o short_a scheme_n of_o that_o heresy_n as_o deliver_v by_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o now_o let_v any_o one_o compare_n st._n john_n word_n with_o it_o and_o he_o will_v find_v his_o design_n be_v to_o countermine_v this_o heresy_n by_o two_o thing_n 1._o that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d word_n be_v eternal_a for_o the_o cerinthian_o say_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v not_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o make_v a_o great_a space_n of_o time_n between_o the_o eternal_a be_v of_o the_o father_n and_o the_o emanation_n of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d wherein_o he_o be_v in_o perfect_a silence_n as_o irenoeus_n express_v it_o l._n 1._o c._n 1._o and_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n do_v imply_v the_o eternity_n of_o the_o word_n but_o that_o be_v not_o all_o for_o he_o say_v it_o be_v with_o god_n and_o be_v god_n and_o be_v the_o demiurgus_n or_o the_o maker_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o revealer_n of_o god_n to_o mankind_n joh._n 1._o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 9_o 10._o and_o so_o there_o be_v no_o place_n for_o those_o several_a emanation_n between_o god_n and_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o demiurgus_n as_o the_o cerinthian_o say_v 2._o that_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o word_n be_v incarnate_a which_o he_o affirm_v v_o 14._o and_o the_o word_n be_v make_v flesh_n and_o dwell_v among_o we_o etc._n etc._n and_o be_v the_o only_o beget_v son_n of_o the_o father_n and_o so_o he_o not_o only_o cut_v off_o the_o other_o emanation_n but_o declare_v that_o jesus_n be_v far_o from_o be_v a_o mere_a man._n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n he_o bring_v in_o the_o testimony_n of_o john_n baptist_n v_o 15._o and_o apply_v what_o he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o person_n of_o jesus_n christ_n v_o 17._o now_o this_o being_n st._n john_n design_n his_o word_n afford_v a_o demonstration_n to_o we_o of_o the_o union_n of_o the_o divine_a and_o human_a nature_n in_o christ_n when_o he_o say_v the_o word_n be_v make_v flesh._n p._n but_o do_v not_o the_o scripture_n in_o other_o place_n imply_v that_o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n in_o christ_n to_o his_o father_n which_o be_v not_o consistent_a with_o such_o a_o equality_n of_o nature_n see_v heb._n 1._o 8_o 9_o 1_o cor._n 8._o 4_o 5._o 15._o 27_o 28._o rev._n 3._o 12._o pr._n the_o first_o place_n be_v a_o proof_n for_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o word_n be_v but_o unto_o the_o son_n he_o say_v thy_o throne_n o_o god_n be_v for_o ever_o and_o ever_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v true_a in_o the_o next_o verse_n it_o be_v say_v with_o respect_n to_o his_o office_n therefore_o god_n even_o thy_o god_n have_v anoint_v thou_o etc._n etc._n but_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v that_o christ_n be_v anoint_v as_o mediator_n and_o in_o that_o respect_n god_n be_v his_o god_n but_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o he_o that_o be_v mediator_n can_v have_v a_o divine_a nature_n in_o conjunction_n with_o the_o human_a the_o second_o place_n i_o suppose_v be_v mistake_v 1_o cor._n 8._o not_o 4._o and_o 5._o but_o 6_o verse_n but_o unto_o we_o there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n the_o father_n of_o who_o
be_v all_o thing_n and_o we_o in_o he_o and_o one_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n by_o who_o be_v all_o thing_n and_o we_o by_o he_o and_o this_o be_v one_o of_o the_o strong_a hold_n of_o the_o socinian_o but_o two_o consideration_n will_v take_v off_o the_o seem_a force_n of_o it_o 1._o that_o the_o apostle_n in_o his_o dispute_n with_o the_o gentile_a idolater_n concern_v who_o he_o speak_v v_o 4_o 5._o do_v utter_o deny_v any_o divinity_n in_o the_o being_n they_o worship_v instead_o of_o god_n when_o he_o say_v a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n and_o that_o there_o be_v none_o other_o god_n but_o one_o he_o know_v very_o well_o that_o they_o worship_v many_o v_o 5._o as_o there_o be_v god_n many_o and_o lord_n many_o among_o they_o but_o unto_o we_o christian_n there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n and_o one_o lord_n i._n e._n we_o have_v but_o one_o supreme_a god_n to_o who_o we_o give_v divine_a worship_n and_o instead_o of_o the_o multitude_n of_o mediator_n we_o have_v but_o one_o mediator_n and_o so_o his_o design_n be_v in_o opposition_n to_o their_o many_o god_n to_o assert_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n not_o so_o as_o to_o exclude_v a_o distinction_n of_o person_n but_o thereby_o to_o exclude_v other_o god_n as_o the_o proper_a object_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o unity_n of_o a_o mediator_n in_o opposition_n to_o their_o many_o lord_n 2._o that_o if_o this_o place_n exclude_v christ_n from_o the_o unity_n of_o nature_n with_o god_n it_o do_v exclude_v he_o from_o be_v the_o object_n of_o divine_a worship_n for_o it_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o god_n but_o one_o therefore_o no_o creature_n can_v be_v make_v god_n and_o to_o we_o there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n the_o father_n therefore_o the_o son_n can_v be_v god._n if_o therefore_o the_o name_n lord_n be_v take_v in_o opposition_n to_o god_n than_o christ_n can_v be_v god_n in_o any_o sense_n for_o we_o must_v have_v but_o one_o god_n but_o the_o plain_a meaning_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v that_o by_o one_o lord_n he_o mean_v one_o mediator_n by_o who_o alone_o we_o have_v in_o this_o new_a frame_n of_o thing_n by_o the_o gospel_n access_n unto_o god_n the_o father_n the_o three_o place_n 1_o cor._n 15._o 27_o 28._o speak_v plain_o of_o christ_n kingdom_n as_o mediator_n the_o four_o place_n rev._n 3._o 12._o where_o christ_n speak_v several_a time_n of_o my_o god_n prove_v no_o more_o than_o his_o word_n on_o the_o cross_n my_o god_n my_o god_n why_o have_v thou_o forsake_v i_o for_o sure_o christ_n may_v own_v a_o particular_a relation_n to_o god_n and_o interest_n in_o he_o as_o he_o be_v in_o human_a nature_n without_o overthrow_v the_o divine_a nature_n in_o he_o p._n but_o he_o own_v that_o though_o he_o be_v to_o be_v our_o judge_n he_o know_v not_o the_o time_n mark_v 13._o 32._o which_o seem_v inconsistent_a with_o the_o divine_a nature_n which_o know_v all_o thing_n pr._n the_o son_n there_o speak_v of_o be_v christ_n as_o endue_v with_o a_o human_a soul_n when_o he_o be_v upon_o earth_n which_o can_v not_o understand_v a_o secret_a so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o reach_n of_o man_n understanding_n without_o immediate_a revelation_n but_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a by_o virtue_n of_o the_o union_n of_o both_o nature_n that_o the_o divine_a nature_n shall_v communicate_v to_o the_o human_a soul_n of_o christ_n all_o divine_a mystery_n but_o as_o the_o human_a body_n be_v notwithstanding_o subject_a to_o passion_n and_o infirmity_n incident_a to_o it_o so_o the_o human_a soul_n may_v continue_v ignorant_a of_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n in_o this_o state_n both_o to_o let_v we_o know_v how_o great_a that_o secret_a be_v and_o that_o christ_n have_v the_o proper_a capacity_n of_o a_o human_a soul_n which_o can_v not_o extend_v to_o such_o thing_n without_o divine_a revelation_n p._n there_o be_v one_o argument_n more_o which_o seem_v to_o prove_v christ_n divinity_n and_o do_v not_o viz._n the_o make_n of_o all_o thing_n visible_a and_o invisible_a be_v attribute_v to_o he_o john_n 1._o 3._o heb._n 1._o 10._o col._n 1._o 16_o 17_o 18_o 19_o pr._n now_o i_o confess_v this_o do_v more_o than_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o be_v a_o very_a strong_a argument_n and_o that_o for_o this_o reason_n the_o apostle_n say_v the_o invisible_a thing_n of_o he_o from_o the_o creation_n of_o the_o world_n be_v clear_o see_v be_v understand_v by_o the_o thing_n which_o be_v make_v even_o his_o eternal_a power_n and_o godhead_n rom._n 1._o 20._o be_v this_o argument_n of_o the_o apostle_n good_a or_o not_o p._n no_o doubt_v it_o be_v pr._n then_o the_o creation_n of_o the_o world_n be_v a_o invincible_a proof_n of_o the_o true_a god._n p._n what_o follow_v pr._n then_o if_o the_o make_n of_o all_o thing_n be_v attribute_v to_o christ_n he_o must_v be_v true_a god_n but_o this_o be_v plain_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n in_o which_o the_o make_n of_o all_o thing_n be_v as_o clear_o attribute_v to_o the_o son_n as_o it_o be_v to_o the_o father_n all_o thing_n say_v st._n john_n be_v make_v by_o he_o and_o without_o he_o be_v not_o any_o thing_n make_v that_o be_v make_v john_n 1._o 3._o for_o by_o he_o be_v all_o thing_n create_v say_v st._n paul_n that_o be_v in_o heaven_n and_o that_o be_v in_o earth_n visible_a and_o invisible_a whether_o they_o be_v throne_n or_o dominion_n or_o principality_n or_o power_n all_o thing_n be_v create_v by_o he_o and_o for_o he_o col._n 1._o 16._o thou_o lord_n in_o the_o begin_n have_v lay_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o the_o heaven_n be_v the_o work_n of_o thy_o hand_n heb._n 1._o 10._o now_o compare_v these_o expression_n with_o those_o wherein_o the_o creation_n be_v attribute_v to_o the_o father_n the_o world_n be_v say_v to_o be_v make_v by_o bim_n rom._n 1._o 20._o that_o he_o have_v create_v all_o thing_n rev._n 4._o 11._o that_o of_o he_o and_o for_o he_o and_o to_o he_o be_v all_o thing_n rom._n 11._o 36._o and_o let_v any_o impartial_a mind_n discern_v the_o difference_n therefore_o we_o have_v as_o much_o reason_n from_o scripture_n to_o believe_v christ_n to_o be_v god_n as_o we_o have_v from_o the_o creation_n of_o thing_n to_o believe_v a_o god._n p._n but_o you_o do_v not_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o different_a expression_n in_o scripture_n concern_v the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n all_o thing_n be_v say_v to_o be_v of_o the_o father_n and_o by_o the_o son_n 1_o cor._n 8._o 6._o and_o that_o the_o father_n create_v all_o thing_n by_o jesus_n christ_n eph._n 3._o 9_o which_o prove_v no_o more_o than_o that_o the_o son_n be_v god_n instrument_n in_o the_o creation_n pr._n what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o god_n instrument_n in_o the_o creation_n do_v you_o think_v one_o creature_n can_v create_v another_o how_o then_o can_v the_o creation_n prove_v a_o infinite_a power_n if_o you_o believe_v the_o instrument_n uncreated_a than_o you_o must_v assert_v he_o to_o be_v true_a god_n by_o nature_n and_o then_o we_o have_v all_o we_o desire_v p._n but_o the_o socinian_o do_v not_o like_o this_o answer_n of_o the_o arian_n and_o therefore_o they_o interpret_v these_o place_n of_o the_o state_n of_o thing_n under_o the_o gospel_n and_o not_o of_o the_o creation_n of_o the_o world._n pr._n they_o have_v not_o one_o jot_n mend_v the_o matter_n for_o 1._o where_o the_o new_a creation_n be_v speak_v of_o some_o circumstance_n be_v add_v which_o limit_v the_o sense_n to_o it_o as_o when_o st._n paul_n say_v we_o be_v create_v in_o christ_n jesus_n unto_o good_a work_n that_o we_o shoul_n walk_v in_o they_o eph._n 2._o 10._o who_o can_v possible_o understand_v this_o of_o the_o old_a creation_n and_o so_o if_o any_o man_n be_v in_o christ_n jesus_n he_o be_v a_o new_a creature_n 2_o cor._n 5._o 17._o but_o in_o the_o other_o place_n the_o same_o expression_n be_v use_v which_o be_v attribute_v to_o the_o old_a creation_n without_o limitation_n from_o circumstance_n or_o from_o the_o context_n and_o occasion_n of_o they_o 2._o there_o be_v some_o thing_n say_v to_o be_v create_v by_o christ_n jesus_n which_o can_v relate_v to_o the_o new_a creation_n for_o by_o he_o be_v all_o thing_n create_v that_o be_v in_o heaven_n and_o that_o be_v in_o earth_n visible_a and_o invisible_a whether_o they_o be_v throne_n or_o dominion_n or_o principality_n or_o power_n col._n 1._o 16._o how_o be_v these_o create_v by_o preach_v the_o gospel_n when_o they_o be_v uncapable_a of_o the_o proper_a mean_n of_o it_o which_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n upon_o repentance_n and_o the_o renew_n and_o sanctifi_a grace_n of_o god_n p._n but_o st._n paul_n do_v not_o
in_o the_o one_o be_v intrinsical_a and_o substantial_a the_o other_o extrinsical_a and_o accidental_a and_o that_o hypostasis_fw-la be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o yet_o be_v most_o close_o unite_v with_o the_o human_a nature_n which_o be_v so_o different_a from_o the_o divine_a so_o that_o it_o be_v incomprehensible_a by_o we_o how_o in_o that_o union_n the_o nature_n be_v not_o confound_v or_o the_o hypostasis_fw-la divide_v pr._n suppose_v now_o we_o grant_v all_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o incomprehensible_a mystery_n in_o the_o incarnation_n what_o follow_v from_o thence_o have_v i_o not_o hitherto_o own_v that_o there_o must_v be_v something_o incomprehensible_a by_o we_o in_o what_o relate_v to_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o it_o be_v the_o less_o wonder_n it_o be_v so_o in_o the_o incarnation_n wherein_o a_o union_n be_v imply_v between_o a_o infinite_a and_o finite_a nature_n when_o the_o union_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o body_n though_o both_o finite_a be_v above_o our_o comprehension_n though_o we_o ourselves_o consist_v of_o soul_n and_o body_n so_o unite_v but_o what_o consequence_n be_v it_o if_o we_o be_v not_o able_a to_o explain_v this_o that_o then_o we_o must_v admit_v that_o the_o same_o body_n may_v be_v not_o mere_o in_o two_o but_o in_o ten_o thousand_o place_n at_o the_o the_o same_o time_n i._o e._n if_o we_o can_v explain_v the_o hypostatical_a union_n than_o all_o manner_n of_o absurdity_n must_v go_v down_o with_o we_o that_o relate_v to_o thing_n of_o a_o very_a different_a nature_n from_o it_o p._n i_o be_o glad_a to_o find_v you_o be_v set_v at_o last_o and_o that_o now_o you_o have_v a_o difficulty_n before_o you_o which_o you_o can_v never_o get_v through_o pr._n be_v not_o too_o confident_a i_o have_v only_o hitherto_o deny_v the_o consequence_n as_o to_o the_o difficulty_n of_o transubstantiation_n but_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o set_v aside_o the_o confusion_n of_o school-term_n i_o may_v be_v able_a to_o give_v a_o far_o more_o intelligible_a and_o reasonable_a account_n of_o the_o incarnation_n itself_o than_o you_o can_v ever_o do_v of_o transubstantiation_n p._n first_o show_v that_o it_o be_v possible_a and_o then_o explain_v the_o manner_n of_o it_o pr._n but_o let_v we_o in_o the_o first_o place_n agree_v what_o we_o mean_v by_o it_o p._n by_o the_o incarnation_n i_o mean_v the_o union_n of_o the_o divine_a and_o humane_a nature_n so_o as_o to_o make_v one_o person_n in_o christ._n pr._n if_o this_o be_v not_o possible_a it_o must_v either_o be_v 1._o because_o two_o nature_n different_a from_o each_o other_o can_v be_v unite_v to_o make_v one_o person_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o appear_v in_o the_o union_n of_o soul_n and_o body_n to_o the_o person_n of_o a_o man._n or_o 2._o because_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o a_o infinite_a nature_n shall_v be_v unite_v to_o a_o finite_a p._n how_o can_v there_o be_v a_o union_n possible_a between_o two_o being_n infinite_o distant_a from_o each_o other_o pr._n not_o in_o that_o respect_n wherein_o the_o distance_n be_v infinite_a but_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o destructive_a to_o either_o nature_n in_o such_o a_o union_n and_o the_o infinite_a nature_n do_v condescend_v to_o it_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v so_o unite_v to_o a_o intelligent_a finite_a be_v as_o to_o make_v one_o person_n together_o with_o it_o for_o in_o respect_n of_o union_n the_o distance_n be_v not_o so_o great_a between_o finite_a and_o infinite_a as_o between_o body_n and_o spirit_n p._n the_o distance_n be_v infinite_a in_o one_o case_n but_o not_o in_o the_o other_o pr._n i_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o they_o with_o respect_n to_o perfection_n but_o to_o union_n and_o a_o infinite_a distance_n in_o that_o must_v imply_v a_o absolute_a repugnancy_n which_o you_o can_v never_o prove_v for_o since_o body_n and_o spirit_n may_v be_v unite_v to_o make_v one_o person_n a_o infinite_a spirit_n may_v be_v unite_v to_o a_o finite_a nature_n p._n but_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o hypostatical_a union_n be_v impossible_a to_o be_v conceive_v pr._n let_v the_o thing_n be_v grant_v possible_a and_o the_o difficulty_n of_o conceive_v the_o manner_n may_v be_v as_o great_a in_o the_o union_n of_o soul_n and_o body_n will_v you_o undertake_v to_o explain_v that_o to_o i_o and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o believe_v it_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v your_o difficulty_n again_o which_o you_o object_n from_o bellarmine_n p._n that_o there_o shall_v be_v but_o one_o hypostasis_fw-la in_o two_o nature_n and_o that_o in_o the_o union_n the_o nature_n shall_v not_o be_v confound_v nor_o the_o hypostasis_fw-la divide_v pr._n all_o these_o difficulty_n arise_v from_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n hypostasis_fw-la which_o original_o signify_v a_o real_a be_v and_o not_o such_o which_o depend_v only_o on_o fancy_n and_o imagination_n from_o thence_o its_o signification_n be_v enlarge_v not_o only_o to_o thing_n real_a in_o opposition_n to_o mere_a appearance_n and_o creature_n of_o the_o mind_n but_o to_o such_o a_o thing_n which_o do_v subsist_v of_o itself_o and_o have_v not_o its_o subsistence_n in_o another_o as_o accident_n have_v so_o that_o a_o hypostasis_fw-la be_v a_o real_a substance_n which_o have_v subsistence_n in_o itself_o but_o such_o be_v of_o two_o kind_n as_o the_o greek_a father_n observe_v 1._o such_o as_o be_v real_a substance_n in_o themselves_o but_o yet_o be_v capable_a of_o be_v join_v with_o another_o to_o make_v up_o a_o person_n thus_o the_o soul_n and_o body_n have_v two_o different_a hypostasis_n and_o make_v up_o but_o one_o person_n of_o a_o man._n 2._o it_o be_v take_v for_o a_o complete_a individual_a subsistence_n which_o be_v not_o join_v with_o any_o other_o as_o a_o part_n and_o so_o hypostasis_fw-la be_v the_o same_o with_o a_o person_n which_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o complete_a intelligent_a individual_a hypostasis_fw-la and_o in_o this_o sense_n there_o can_v be_v but_o one_o hypostasis_fw-la in_o christ_n i._n e._n one_o person_n though_o there_o be_v two_o nature_n p._n but_o our_o divine_n say_v that_o the_o humane_a nature_n after_o the_o union_n have_v no_o hypostasis_fw-la it_o be_v swallow_v up_o by_o the_o divine_a pr._n i_o know_v they_o do_v but_o if_o they_o mean_v that_o the_o humane_a nature_n after_o the_o union_n lose_v that_o subsistence_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o humane_a nature_n it_o be_v impossible_a for_o they_o to_o avoid_v the_o eutychian_a heresy_n condemn_v by_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n but_o if_o they_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o that_o there_o be_v a_o true_a nature_n but_o no_o person_n save_v only_o that_o which_o result_v from_o both_o nature_n they_o then_o agree_v with_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n which_o condemn_v the_o eutychian_o for_o as_o much_o as_o the_o heresy_n of_o nestorius_n and_o eutyches_n differ_v in_o themselves_o they_o be_v both_o build_v on_o the_o same_o ground_n viz._n that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o true_a nature_n but_o there_o must_v be_v a_o person_n and_o that_o two_o nature_n can_v not_o make_v one_o person_n from_o whence_o nestorius_n assert_v there_o be_v two_o person_n in_o christ_n and_o eutyches_n deny_v that_o there_o be_v two_o nature_n p._n what_o do_v all_o this_o signify_v but_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n must_v determine_v whether_o there_o be_v two_o nature_n or_o two_o person_n in_o christ_n pr._n it_o seem_v then_o the_o whole_a business_n wherein_o the_o general_a council_n be_v so_o warm_o concern_v be_v only_o to_o make_v a_o ecclesiastical_a dictionary_n and_o to_o appoint_v what_o word_n be_v to_o be_v use_v and_o what_o not_o do_v you_o think_v then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o real_a heresy_n as_o nestorianism_n and_o eutychianism_n but_o only_o they_o happen_v to_o take_v the_o word_n nature_n and_o person_n in_o another_o sense_n than_o the_o church_n will_v have_v man_n use_v they_o p._n i_o trust_v the_o church_n for_o all_o these_o thing_n pr._n then_o if_o the_o church_n will_v have_v you_o affirm_v two_o person_n and_o one_o nature_n or_o two_o nature_n and_o one_o person_n it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o you_o p._n why_o not_o since_o the_o church_n must_v determine_v pr._n what_o if_o you_o have_v be_v to_o dispute_v with_o nestorius_n and_o eutyches_n p._n i_o will_v have_v tell_v they_o they_o must_v submit_v to_o the_o church_n about_o the_o use_n of_o word_n pr._n and_o they_o will_v have_v laugh_v at_o you_o for_o your_o pain_n for_o the_o controversy_n be_v real_o about_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n incarnation_n as_o the_o father_n prove_v and_o the_o council_n determine_v which_o in_o consequence_n be_v reject_v by_o both_o of_o they_o as_o i_o will_v evident_o prove_v if_o you_o have_v any_o long_a patience_n p._n i_o beg_v your_o pardon_n sir_n i_o