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sense_n scripture_n spirit_n word_n 6,083 5 4.6960 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A36727 A conference between an orthodox Christian and a Socinian in four dialogues : wherein the late distinction of a real and nominal Trinitarian is considered / by H. de Lvzancy ... De Luzancy, H. C. (Hippolyte du Chastelet), d. 1713. 1698 (1698) Wing D2417; ESTC R31382 78,348 146

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pardonable_a origen_n and_o other_o antenicenes_n make_v out_o the_o unity_n of_o god_n in_o a_o ternary_a of_o person_n though_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o equality_n say_v the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o dr._n bull_n pag._n 22._o unjust_a in_o this_o to_o origen_n and_o the_o rest_n i_o have_v some_o remark_n on_o that_o answer_n which_o i_o design_v to_o make_v public_a what_o the_o author_n have_v say_v concern_v the_o epistle_n of_o st._n barnabas_n and_o those_o of_o the_o holy_a martyr_n ignatius_n be_v far_o from_o invalidate_v their_o authority_n we_o must_v have_v more_o than_o suspicion_n and_o bare_a denial_n to_o illegitimate_a a_o book_n they_o be_v certain_o work_v of_o great_a antiquity_n and_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v such_o by_o the_o succeed_a age_n but_o what_o must_v we_o say_v of_o a_o person_n of_o his_o great_a erudition_n who_o pretend_v to_o answer_v a_o book_n full_a of_o all_o the_o testimony_n which_o those_o early_a time_n can_v afford_v 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shameful_a beg_n of_o the_o question_n every_o contester_n will_v call_v himself_o a_o fair_a reasoner_n socin_n what!_o be_v there_o no_o such_o thing_n then_o as_o fair_a reason_n be_v there_o not_o in_o man_n a_o equitable_a disposition_n to_o judge_v of_o and_o assent_v to_o the_o truth_n orthod_n yes_o certain_o but_o you_o have_v it_o not_o there_o be_v vast_a many_o text_n produce_v to_o assert_v the_o divinity_n of_o the_o son_n and_o holy_a spirit_n for_o we_o do_v not_o only_o allege_v one_o or_o two_o solitary_a place_n of_o scripture_n but_o we_o maintain_v also_o this_o to_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o christianity_n and_o teach_v in_o the_o scripture_n plain_o frequent_o irrefragable_o which_o be_v the_o way_n to_o reason_n fair_o in_o this_o case_n first_o it_o be_v to_o see_v the_o sense_n which_o offer_v itself_o in_o the_o text_n which_o we_o produce_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o bring_v in_o a_o instance_n or_o two_o rom._n 9.5_o st._n paul_n speak_v of_o christ_n say_v that_o he_o be_v over_o all_o god_n bless_v for_o ever_o the_o natural_a sense_n of_o the_o proposition_n be_v that_o he_o be_v true_o god_n over_o all_o and_o bless_a for_o ever_o be_v the_o notion_n which_o we_o have_v of_o a_o eternal_a be_v you_o can_v without_o a_o incredible_a violence_n make_v any_o other_o sense_n of_o that_o proposition_n the_o same_o be_v phil._n 2.6_o who_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o god_n think_v it_o not_o robbery_n to_o be_v equal_a with_o god_n that_o which_o the_o proposition_n natural_o offer_v be_v that_o christ_n be_v god_n none_o but_o a_o king_n can_v say_v that_o he_o think_v it_o not_o robbery_n to_o be_v equal_a with_o a_o king_n none_o but_o he_o who_o be_v god_n can_v pretend_v a_o equality_n with_o god_n second_o i_o must_v see_v whether_o that_o sense_n which_o offer_v itself_o so_o natural_o to_o i_o have_v the_o same_o effect_n on_o other_o people_n it_o be_v a_o mighty_a confirmation_n to_o i_o that_o i_o take_v a_o proposition_n right_a when_o the_o wise_a the_o good_a the_o inquisitive_a part_n of_o mankind_n take_v it_o as_o i_o do_v now_o our_o text_n have_v not_o only_o the_o advantage_n of_o a_o natural_a evidence_n but_o they_o have_v also_o another_o and_o that_o be_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n the_o church_n of_o god_n have_v speak_v as_o we_o speak_v understand_v as_o we_o understand_v believe_v as_o we_o believe_v it_o be_v the_o voice_n of_o the_o sacred_a council_n in_o their_o decision_n of_o the_o father_n in_o their_o write_n of_o the_o university_n in_o their_o chair_n and_o of_o all_o christian_n in_o their_o praise_n prayer_n and_o adoration_n you_o own_a it_o to_o i_o and_o you_o say_v that_o it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o socinian_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v a_o infallible_a divine_a and_o complete_a rule_n of_o faith_n and_o manner_n but_o it_o can_v never_o be_v so_o if_o there_o be_v not_o a_o universal_a sense_n in_o those_o proposition_n in_o which_o the_o faith_n be_v deliver_v for_o to_o who_o be_v it_o a_o rule_n even_o to_o all_o christian_n and_o how_o can_v christian_n follow_v this_o rule_n if_o there_o be_v not_o a_o common_a sense_n in_o which_o they_o may_v be_v unite_v but_o what_o be_v that_o sense_n but_o that_o which_o appear_v to_o the_o church_n in_o the_o proposition_n and_o become_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n a_o sense_n of_o so_o much_o the_o more_o weight_n and_o authority_n because_o no_o scripture_n be_v of_o private_a interpretation_n this_o with_o all_o man_n who_o pretend_v to_o any_o acquaintance_n in_o those_o matter_n be_v fair_a and_o ingenuous_a reason_v socin_n i_o thank_v you_o once_o for_o a_o argument_n in_o the_o behalf_n of_o transuastantiation_n and_o now_o i_o do_v it_o for_o tradition_n the_o denial_n of_o it_o be_v a_o protestant_a principle_n orthod_n you_o be_v so_o press_v by_o the_o evidence_n of_o what_o i_o offer_v that_o because_o you_o can_v answer_v you_o will_v endeavour_v to_o divert_v 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authority_n of_o all_o writer_n some_o you_o have_v load_v with_o little_a criticism_n as_o phil._n 2.6_o upon_o other_o you_o have_v trumpt_v new_a unnatural_a and_o incoherent_a explication_n as_o joh._n 1.1_o and_o follow_v dream_n of_o yesterday_n unknown_a to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o to_o any_o one_o writer_n in_o it_o other_o you_o have_v elude_v with_o poor_a allegory_n as_o col._n 1.16_o in_o a_o word_n there_o be_v scarce_o a_o part_n of_o scripture_n but_o what_o you_o have_v put_v to_o the_o rack_n and_o than_o you_o come_v to_o tell_v we_o of_o fair_a and_o ingenuous_a reason_n of_o your_o elaborate_a print_n to_o prove_v the_o unity_n of_o god_n which_o not_o christian_a ever_o deny_v the_o trinity_n of_o the_o divine_a person_n appear_v so_o visible_o in_o the_o sacred_a write_n that_o if_o you_o design_v to_o deal_v as_o a_o fair_a or_o ingenuous_a reasoner_n you_o must_v either_o embrace_v the_o doctrine_n or_o reject_v their_o authority_n socin_n i_o will_v do_v neither_o i_o be_o persuade_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o one_o but_o not_o at_o all_o of_o the_o other_o observe_v what_o the_o ingenious_a author_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n luzancy_n have_v say_v to_o he_o pag._n 44_o 45_o 46._o i_o will_v put_v it_o in_o as_o few_o word_n as_o i_o can_v and_o yet_o i_o hope_v without_o lose_v any_o thing_n of_o the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n you_o charge_v that_o upon_o the_o scripture_n which_o be_v no_o scripture_n at_o all_o and_o you_o oblige_v we_o to_o believe_v as_o the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o which_o be_v no_o word_n of_o god_n but_o only_o your_o inference_n from_o it_o you_o draw_v conclusion_n those_o conclusion_n you_o rest_v in_o and_o though_o they_o be_v no_o article_n of_o faith_n because_o only_o the_o work_n of_o your_o reason_n yet_o you_o propose_v they_o as_o faith_n to_o we_o i_o will_v fain_o ask_v whether_o your_o reason_n be_v more_o infallible_a than_o we_o or_o whether_o you_o have_v a_o privilege_n which_o we_o have_v not_o of_o make_v inference_n the_o trinity_n be_v no_o doctrine_n of_o scripture_n but_o only_o a_o inference_n from_o it_o may_v not_o i_o have_v the_o liberty_n either_o to_o make_v a_o contrary_a inference_n to_o you_o or_o to_o review_v your_o deduction_n to_o judge_v the_o consistency_n or_o contradiction_n of_o these_o inference_n i_o honour_v the_o scripture_n but_o i_o be_o not_o oblige_v to_o receive_v your_o argumentation_n these_o be_v not_o indeed_o his_o word_n but_o i_o be_o sure_a it_o be_v his_o sense_n get_v out_o of_o this_o as_o well_o as_o you_o can_v orth._n but_o pray_v what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n i_o ●an_v assent_v due_a to_o a_o plain_a and_o express_a proposition_n a_o inference_n or_o if_o you_o will_v call_v it_o a_o inference_n be_v it_o not_o the_o natural_a result_n of_o that_o plain_a proposition_n and_o must_v not_o whosoever_o have_v any_o share_n of_o understanding_n give_v the_o same_o assent_n to_o it_o which_o i_o do_v what_o be_v all_o our_o perception_n but_o inference_n and_o all_o our_o talk_n and_o conversation_n but_o conclusion_n the_o ploughman_n do_v it_o as_o much_o as_o the_o philosopher_n and_o there_o be_v proposition_n of_o that_o evidence_n that_o if_o offer_v to_o all_o mankind_n all_o mankind_n will_v agree_v in_o they_o the_o question_n be_v not_o here_o between_o your_o reason_n and_o i_o nor_o do_v i_o pretend_v to_o more_o infallibility_n than_o you_o in_o reason_v but_o i_o say_v that_o reason_n be_v so_o much_o the_o same_o in_o you_o and_o i_o that_o a_o plain_a and_o express_a proposition_n be_v offer_v we_o you_o and_o i_o must_v equal_o assent_v to_o it_o if_o you_o do_v not_o you_o wrong_v reason_n and_o be_v unjust_a to_o
c._n 13._o he_o tell_v you_o that_o the_o scripture_n deliver_v so_o manifest_o christ_n to_o be_v god_n that_o several_a heretic_n divinitatis_fw-la ipsius_fw-la magnitudine_fw-la &_o veritate_fw-la commoti_fw-la move_v by_o the_o great_a sense_n and_o truth_n of_o his_o divinity_n have_v confound_v he_o with_o the_o father_n but_o if_o we_o have_v no_o such_o proof_n as_o these_o there_o be_v still_o one_o which_o according_a to_o your_o late_a principle_n you_o can_v oppose_v i_o say_v your_o late_a principle_n for_o you_o change_v every_o day_n socin_n no_o you_o do_v we_o wrong_n we_o be_v still_o the_o same_o orthod_n i_o may_v at_o some_o time_n or_o other_o have_v a_o occasion_n to_o prove_v the_o defection_n of_o the_o outlandish_a socinian_o from_o socinus_n of_o you_o from_o the_o outlandish_a socinian_o and_o of_o yourselves_o from_o yourselves_o in_o your_o first_o and_o late_a print_n but_o let_v we_o not_o digress_v from_o the_o thing_n in_o dispute_n the_o proof_n which_o i_o speak_v of_o be_v the_o great_a council_n of_o nice_a socin_n what_o that_o council_n which_o have_v publish_v establish_v and_o infect_v the_o world_n with_o its_o infidelity_n as_o the_o answer_n to_o dr._n bull_n judicious_o observe_v pag._n 25._o orthod_n that_o first_o ecumenical_a council_n which_o can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a both_o of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o apostolical_a creed_n and_o of_o the_o father_n who_o they_o immediate_o succeed_v a_o council_n so_o venerable_a for_o its_o antiquity_n so_o reverence_v for_o the_o number_n of_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n who_o vote_v in_o it_o so_o highy_o honour_v by_o the_o follow_a age_n to_o this_o day_n do_v they_o know_v the_o apostolical_a creed_n or_o do_v they_o not_o if_o you_o say_v they_o do_v not_o you_o overthrow_v all_o that_o you_o can_v pretend_v from_o it_o a_o creed_n can_v neither_o be_v apostolical_a or_o universal_a which_o the_o nicene_n father_n be_v not_o acquaint_v with_o and_o if_o they_o do_v than_o your_o sense_n of_o it_o be_v not_o that_o of_o these_o primitive_a time_n for_o they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o interpret_n as_o you_o do_v jesus_n christ_n to_o be_v only_a man_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n to_o be_v only_o a_o energy_n or_o operation_n that_o you_o know_v how_o positive_o how_o earnest_o they_o assert_v they_o to_o be_v consubstantial_a to_o the_o father_n i_o may_v be_v mistake_v but_o if_o this_o way_n of_o reason_v be_v not_o plain_a i_o do_v know_v what_o can_v be_v plain_a socin_n but_o what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v with_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a or_o indeed_o with_o any_o council_n whatsoever_o we_o have_v innumerable_a objection_n against_o that_o and_o the_o follow_a council_n orthod_n i_o confess_v you_o speak_v as_o a_o socinian_n of_o the_o first_o edition_n thus_o socinus_n and_o his_o first_o disciple_n answer_v to_o those_o great_a authority_n thus_o do_v yourselves_o write_v in_o your_o first_o print_n the_o world_n indeed_o stare_v at_o you_o but_o however_o it_o have_v a_o air_n if_o not_o of_o reason_n at_o least_o of_o sincerity_n but_o a_o socinian_n of_o the_o second_o edition_n run_v another_o way_n i_o tell_v you_o that_o you_o change_v every_o day_n pray_v open_v the_o discourse_n concern_v the_o real_a and_o nominal_a trinitarian_n socin_n what_o then_o orthod_n there_o you_o may_v sin_v your_o condemnation_n in_o that_o particular_a out_o of_o your_o own_o mouth_n pag._n 4._o the_o author_n speak_v of_o the_o great_a lateran_n council_n observe_v that_o a_o doctrine_n be_v not_o heresy_n because_o reject_v by_o a_o great_a number_n of_o learned_a man_n or_o by_o a_o national_a council_n but_o only_o when_o censure_v by_o a_o general_n council_n the_o catholic_n church_n be_v never_o understand_v to_o speak_v but_o by_o a_o general_n council_n pag._n 5._o be_v not_o a_o general_n council_n the_o high_a court_n of_o the_o church_n her_o canon_n declare_v the_o faith_n her_o anathema_n heresy_n and_o pag._n 16._o a_o general_n council_n be_v the_o last_o tribunal_n on_o earth_n from_o which_o there_o lie_v no_o appeal_n pag._n 4._o he_o call_v this_o a_o incontestable_a argument_n now_o pray_v deal_v sincere_o and_o apply_v this_o to_o the_o nicene_n council_n no_o body_n ever_o yet_o dispute_v its_o universality_n it_o be_v assemble_v under_o and_o by_o the_o first_o christian_a emperor_n it_o represent_v the_o whole_a church_n the_o creed_n then_o of_o that_o council_n determine_v the_o sense_n of_o any_o precede_a creed_n whatever_o you_o can_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n be_v insignificant_a because_o such_o a_o determination_n come_v from_o the_o high_a tribunal_n on_o earth_n from_o which_o there_o lie_v no_o appeal_n upon_o the_o whole_a the_o church_n ever_o assert_v a_o trinity_n consistent_a with_o the_o unity_n of_o god_n and_o a_o unity_n inseparable_a from_o a_o trinity_n of_o person_n in_o one_o adorable_a and_o divine_a nature_n where_o be_v then_o again_o the_o first_o part_n of_o your_o distinction_n you_o charge_v we_o with_o teach_v a_o trinity_n which_o infer_v three_o go_n we_o say_v this_o be_v false_a this_o be_v impossible_a not_o only_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n but_o also_o from_o a_o authority_n which_o you_o dare_v not_o reject_v because_o you_o own_v yourselves_o that_o it_o be_v the_o high_a tribunal_n on_o earth_n from_o which_o there_o can_v lie_v no_o appeal_n socin_n this_o seem_v home_o indeed_o but_o yet_o not_o without_o exception_n for_o the_o unity_n assert_v by_o the_o nicene_n and_o post-nicene_n father_n be_v only_o a_o unity_n of_o monarchy_n a_o unity_n of_o love_n and_o agreement_n a_o unity_n of_o subordination_n and_o subjection_n to_o he_o who_o be_v the_o first_o god_n such_o a_o unity_n as_o be_v that_o of_o the_o individual_n of_o the_o same_o species_n this_o the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o dr._n bull_n be_v positive_a in_o pag._n 75._o he_o charge_v the_o father_n with_o this_o all_o over_o his_o 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field_n to_o exercise_v itself_o in_o for_o though_o it_o suppose_v the_o axiomata_fw-la the_o first_o principle_n of_o christianity_n the_o divine_a mystery_n to_o be_v so_o certain_a as_o not_o to_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o least_o doubt_n but_o to_o be_v admit_v with_o the_o most_o humble_a adoration_n and_o sincere_a and_o firm_a assent_n that_o can_v be_v yet_o there_o be_v some_o universal_a and_o some_o particular_a dependent_a inferior_a truth_n which_o it_o have_v the_o liberty_n to_o consider_v there_o be_v thing_n which_o we_o know_v by_o faith_n alone_o other_o by_o reason_n alone_o and_o other_o by_o faith_n and_o reason_n together_o of_o the_o first_o sort_n be_v the_o mystery_n of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n incarnation_n resurrection_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v of_o these_o that_o st._n ambrose_n de_fw-fr vocat_fw-la gent._n say_v excellent_o magna_fw-la est_fw-la fortitudo_fw-la consensionis_fw-la cvi_fw-la ad_fw-la sequendum_fw-la veritatem_fw-la auctoritas_fw-la 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this_o as_o a_o principle_n in_o their_o barbarous_a way_n of_o speak_v that_o habitus_n fidei_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la discursious_a sed_fw-la animus_n unico_fw-la actu_fw-la fertur_fw-la in_o objectum_fw-la materiale_a propter_fw-la formale_a which_o in_o plain_a english_a be_v this_o that_o faith_n depend_v not_o from_o reason_n and_o discourse_n but_o that_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n by_o the_o same_o act_n embrace_v the_o truth_n propose_v a_o secondary_a sort_n of_o a_o object_n upon_o the_o account_n of_o the_o first_o which_o be_v god_n reveal_v it_o to_o we_o of_o the_o second_o sort_n be_v whatsoever_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n but_o only_o serve_v to_o illustrate_v and_o confirm_v to_o defend_v and_o propagate_v it_o all_o our_o argument_n be_v the_o product_n of_o reason_n there_o be_v a_o divine_a oeconomy_n and_o coherence_n in_o the_o sacred_a write_n which_o it_o perceive_v and_o from_o which_o it_o draw_v inference_n a_o analogy_n of_o faith_n which_o by_o the_o concord_n and_o relation_n of_o the_o several_a part_n make_v up_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o divinity_n it_o be_v a_o judicious_a observation_n of_o st._n austin_n de_fw-fr trin._n lib._n 14._o c._n 1._o that_o as_o there_o be_v thing_n which_o can_v never_o be_v understand_v except_o they_o be_v believe_v so_o there_o be_v thing_n which_o can_v never_o be_v believe_v except_o they_o be_v understand_v and_o such_o be_v prophecy_n of_o which_o it_o be_v say_v 2_o pet._n 1.19_o we_o have_v also_o a_o more_o sure_a word_n of_o prophecy_n whereunto_o you_o do_v well_o that_o you_o take_v heed_n as_o unto_o a_o light_n that_o shine_v in_o a_o dark_a place_n until_o the_o day_n dawn_n and_o the_o day_n star_n arise_v in_o your_o heart_n a_o prophecy_n can_v be_v believe_v except_o reason_n have_v make_v way_n to_o faith_n by_o be_v convince_v of_o its_o accomplishment_n thus_o christ_n argue_v luk._n 24.44_o these_o be_v the_o word_n which_o i_o speak_v to_o you_o whilst_o i_o be_v with_o you_o that_o all_o thing_n must_v be_v fulfil_v which_o be_v write_v in_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n and_o in_o the_o prophet_n and_o in_o the_o psalm_n concern_v i_o for_o though_o prophecy_n have_v the_o sanction_n of_o the_o divine_a authority_n and_o be_v to_o be_v assent_v unto_o even_o as_o to_o its_o future_a accomplishment_n because_o none_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n can_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n yet_o when_o you_o tell_v i_o that_o it_o be_v accomplish_v it_o be_v altogether_o the_o work_n of_o my_o reason_n to_o examine_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o god_n by_o his_o prophet_n and_o indeed_o by_o the_o two_o first_o dispensation_n that_o of_o nature_n and_o that_o of_o the_o law_n have_v promise_v that_o a_o messiah_n shall_v come_v for_o the_o redemption_n of_o mankind_n the_o prophecy_n concern_v he_o be_v many_o and_o express_v some_o describe_v his_o nature_n other_o his_o person_n some_o his_o miraculous_a work_n other_o his_o heavenly_a doctrine_n some_o the_o time_n and_o 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speak_v to_o the_o heart_n as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o ear_n and_o convert_v as_o well_o as_o instruct_v we_o god_n have_v show_v himself_o no_o where_n better_o than_o in_o his_o word_n in_o his_o operation_n he_o act_n but_o in_o this_o he_o speak_v like_o god_n whosoever_o read_v attentive_o the_o holy_a scripture_n must_v needs_o upon_o the_o whole_a conclude_v that_o it_o be_v a_o work_n which_o infinite_o exceed_v the_o most_o refine_a reason_n the_o most_o intense_a capacity_n and_o the_o vast_a industry_n of_o man._n i_o will_v say_v no_o more_o only_o let_v i_o beg_v of_o you_o to_o lay_v this_o all_o together_o and_o then_o tell_v i_o whether_o i_o be_o a_o enemy_n to_o reason_n and_o whether_o it_o have_v receive_v any_o injury_n from_o i_o socin_n your_o way_n of_o speak_v show_v the_o excellency_n of_o reason_n and_o you_o make_v a_o admirable_a use_n of_o it_o against_o itself_o you_o leave_v i_o but_o one_o thing_n to_o desire_v and_o that_o be_v that_o i_o can_v be_v 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