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A93414 A gagg for the Quakers, with an answer to Mr. Denn's Quaker no Papist. Smith, Thomas, 1623 or 4-1661. 1659 (1659) Wing S4231bA; Thomason E764_2; ESTC R207100 18,205 20

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Parkers dayes 16. Presently you add that T. S. dared not profess openly that they received their commission from Popish Bishops of K. Henry VIII's time Ans. true because he dares not speak a falsity for they received it in the time of Edw. VI Though what you suppose had been no impossible thing since good Protestants in the dayes of Edw. VI had received valid baptisme as all men do acknowledg in Henry the eights reign 17. In answer to the rest of this be pleased to know that the antient Church believed contrary to your Popish novelty that all Bishops had spiritual jurisdiction as being successors to the Apostles And 't is only the interest of the Pope to deny it who is wont to make titular Bishops without jurisdiction to serve himself in his pretended Councils 18. I hope I need not tell Mr. D. who tells others 15. how they speak at Cambridge that a Master and a Family an overseer and a charge are relata rise and fall together but I must tell him that Bishop Barlow and Miles Coverdale had the warrant of all their Ecclesiastical Superiors who then were over them to make Bishops in the diocess of London and that Bonner was not their superior 19. To what you speake at large of Q. Elizabeths being a Lay-person and not being able to give any power c. I answer What power that Queen had and ought to have in Ecclesiastical matters you may see in the Articles of the Church of England which no Papist nor Anabaptist H. D. or W. J. W. J. or H. D. was ever able to disprove or durst say one word against it 20. Reading forward I am at a stand and must plainly confesse I know not what you mean by what followes viz. your comparing the common people and Masters of Families with the Queen that then was I know not what your asserting that these have as much power as the Queen can drive at but casting off all authority like your brethren at Munster 21. To your 6th I answer that if there be any Churches beyond our seas who count it their glory to want a succession of Bishops yea to cry shame upon it and to reject it as a superstitious relique of Popery and mark of Antichrist we are no more engaged to defend such people then the Quaker is engaged to defend the Papist or the Papist a Quaker nor so much as appears by this Apology which I am now answering 22. This I know that not only the Reformed Churches in their Confession of Ausburg and again in their Apology for that Confession cap. de ordine ecclesiastico cap. de potestate eccles. and in their other colloquies at Wormes and Ratisbon and divers of their books beside but likewise Mr. Calvin who subscribed the Augustane confession in his book de necessitate reformandae ecclesiae to Cardinal Sadolet his old friend and in his epistles to Archbishop Cranmer and Bishop Ridley and in his Institutions l. 4. c. 4. 4. And with him Mr. Beza too in his book de diversis gradibus ministr. c. 21. 23. I say I know and am as sure as a man that believes his eyes can be that these and Zanchy Diodati Cappellus Pet. Moulin Daillé and others the most learned French-men now living believe episcopacy and the government by Bishops to be lawfull at least And I am sure that Mr. T. S. if H. D. be so well acquainted with him as he pretends but I am told he confessed he did not know him so much as by sight the same hour that he owned this printed book to him will at his request give him a larger list of reformed forraign Divines on this subject and proofes that other protestant churches beside the English have a successsion of Bishops which I saw in his chamber But there is so much already printed of the L. Viscount Falklands Bp. Carleton and others against your ungrounded assertion that I shall deferr sending you a larger catalogue until you or your friend Knot the Jesuit who also hath writ against Episcopacy shall have answered Dr. Hamonds dissertations against Blondel otherwise than by your sword and sequestration 23. Your 7th conteining nothing to the purpose but a bare assertion that T. S. 16. and great numbers even of Episcopall men PRESBYTERIANS Independents and ALL professors besides Papists do refuse to take the oath of abjuration is in my opinion answered sufficiently till it be proved by a bare negation Though some of them have much more cause to refuse it than you who have taken away the former trial of Popery viz. Recusancy common by the Law to Papists Anabaptists and other Sectaries which names I hope you 'l not be angry at while you take them to your self p. 16. l. 14. 16. 24. In your 8th you argue against the oath thus No man can safely swear that he believes no purgatory unlesse he be as sure that there is no purgatory as that there is a God Ans. This looks like the saying of Fa. Knot against Chillingworth who thinks that what ever he believes in religion he believes with the same certainty wherewith he receives the highest articles of the Christian faith When passion and prejudice is laid aside I hope you 'l find time to consider whether if you were now disputing in the Divinity Schools you might not safely affirm that to be true which is your opinion in any matter of Religion and not expect that any Caviller who stands by and is no way concerned in the Act should thence inferr and cry out that you are as sure of it as that there is a God who made the world If this Caviller should go further single this assertion perhaps being only argumentum ad hominem out of your whole dispute and print a book against it would not he be as you say Mr. S. is not a little ridiculous And would not you your self take as little notice of him as Mr. Smith doth of you I should enlarge upon this your acception of the word believe but that Mr. Chillingworth hath said enough of it in his answer to your Brother Knot and T. S. in his defense of Chillingworth 25. In the last lines of this 12th page you have these words what do I know whether purgatory be revealed in Scripture or no You seem here plainly to profess that you do not know whether Papists or Protestants be in the right so far as to Gods revelation in Scripture which Protestants have alwayes made their rule By which we may judge what a Protestant you are And that Anabaptists either deny the H. Scripture to be their rule or affirm that they know no error in purgatory 26. To the 9th whereof I can scarce make common sence I might tell you that no Parliament is in any sense that which is signified by the word person But I rather answer that no Parliament can free any person from any oath of beliefe which he hath taken For example if one Parliament propound an