of_o gabr._n and_o pet._n lomb._n the_o one_o say_v it_o be_v not_o certain_a but_o it_o may_v seem_v probable_a that_o god_n reveal_v unto_o saint_n all_o those_o suit_n which_o man_n present_v unto_o they_o the_o other_o that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o soul_n of_o saint_n hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o their_o suppliant_n well_o be_v it_o so_o sir_n hum._n let_v it_o be_v uncertain_a as_o you_o say_v it_o be_v whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n or_o not_o yet_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o all_o that_o that_o our_o doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v uncertain_a for_o as_o bellar._n well_o note_v it_o may_v be_v good_a and_o profitable_a to_o invoke_v the_o saint_n though_o they_o themselves_o shall_v not_o hear_v we_o but_o only_o almighty_a god_n for_o they_o what_o be_v you_o the_o better_a then_o but_o beside_o it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v we_o or_o no_o that_o be_v it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o they_o know_v 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speak_v not_o doubtful_o but_o certain_o of_o invocation_n and_o so_o go_v on_o with_o his_o discourse_n prove_v that_o notwithstanding_o that_o almighty_a god_n be_v of_o himself_o most_o propitious_a and_o merciful_a yet_o that_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o the_o saint_n may_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o after_o that_o fall_v to_o discourse_v of_o the_o manner_n how_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n the_o like_a i_o may_v say_v of_o peter_n lombard_n who_o though_o he_o say_v only_o in_o those_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n yet_o for_o their_o hear_n or_o see_v our_o prayer_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o the_o angel_n do_v he_o make_v no_o doubt_n sicut_fw-la enim_fw-la angelisit_fw-la a_o etiam_fw-la sanctis_fw-la qui_fw-la deo_fw-la assistunt_fw-la petitiones_fw-la nostrae_fw-la innotescunt_fw-la in_o verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la quod_fw-la contemplantur_fw-la say_v he_o for_o as_o our_o prayer_n become_v know_v to_o the_o angel_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o they_o behold_v so_o also_o to_o the_o saint_n who_o stand_v before_o god_n so_o as_o here_o be_v something_o more_o sir_n humphrey_n with_o your_o good_a leave_n then_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o doctor_n though_o you_o be_v please_v to_o conclude_v out_o of_o they_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o but_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n though_o if_o there_o be_v but_o probability_n only_o it_o be_v more_o than_o you_o have_v for_o any_o point_n of_o your_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v you_o 10._o for_o caietan_n authority_n concern_v the_o miracle_n whereon_o the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n be_v ground_v it_o be_v true_a as_o he_o say_v the_o authority_n of_o they_o be_v but_o humane_a as_o rely_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n but_o what_o then_o ergo_fw-la we_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o the_o canonize_a saint_n be_v in_o heaven_n or_o no_o this_o be_v your_o conclusion_n and_o it_o be_v like_o one_o of_o you_o indeed_o but_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o the_o certainty_n of_o canonisation_n depend_v upon_o a_o more_o certain_a ground_n to_o wit_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a and_o continual_a assistance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n to_o who_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o suffer_v christ_n vicar_n use_v humane_a diligence_n and_o proceed_v prudent_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o that_o moment_n to_o err_v and_o the_o proof_n of_o miracle_n be_v only_o use_v that_o he_o may_v proceed_v prudent_o &_o upon_o good_a ground_n &_o in_o that_o sense_n miracle_n be_v say_v to_o ground_n the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n not_o that_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o one_o do_v whole_o depend_v on_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o other_o so_o as_o caietan_n help_v you_o not_o a_o jot_n to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n no_o more_o than_o do_v s._n aug._n and_o sulpitius_n in_o those_o authoritye_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o they_o for_o they_o speak_v not_o a_o word_n of_o any_o canonize_a saint_n and_o as_o for_o the_o place_n of_o s._n aug._n bellarm._n answer_v that_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o he_o which_o word_n perhaps_o you_o take_v hold_v of_o as_o if_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v it_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a answer_n or_o rather_o a_o grant_n of_o the_o authority_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o bell._n use_v that_o word_n out_o of_o modesty_n because_o as_o he_o say_v he_o can_v never_o find_v it_o in_o any_o work_n of_o s._n aug._n which_o notwithstanding_o he_o will_v not_o say_v peremptory_o it_o be_v not_o there_o but_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o s._n augustin_n sir_n humphrey_n tell_v we_o where_o out_o of_o your_o great_a read_n &_o then_o you_o shall_v find_v 3._o or_o 4._o several_a answer_n ready_a in_o bellarmine_n without_o any_o peradventure_o and_o indeed_o any_o man_n of_o ordinary_a wit_n will_v present_o see_v the_o place_n do_v not_o urge_v a_o whit_n for_o who_o do_v doubt_n but_o many_o dead_a man_n be_v mighty_o honour_v by_o some_o man_n here_o upon_o earth_n who_o soul_n be_v bury_v full_a low_a in_o hell_n another_o answer_n of_o bellarmine_n be_v that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o place_n in_o s._n aug._n it_o may_v be_v very_o well_o understand_v of_o the_o martyr_n of_o the_o donatist_n who_o be_v honour_v by_o those_o haeretique_n for_o martyr_n who_o soul_n be_v torment_v in_o hell_n as_o the_o same_o b._n saint_n say_v of_o they_o elsewhere_o 68_o aug._n ep_v 68_o vivebant_fw-la ut_fw-la latrones_fw-la honorabantur_fw-la ut_fw-la martyr_n they_o live_v as_o thief_n and_o be_v honour_v as_o martyr_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o our_o canonize_a saint_n be_v here_o any_o the_o least_o shadow_n thereof_o for_o that_o story_n of_o sulpitius_n it_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v one_o worship_v by_o the_o people_n for_o a_o martyr_n indeed_o but_o he_o be_v far_o from_o any_o canonisation_n of_o the_o church_n for_o as_o the_o story_n say_v s._n martin_n see_v the_o people_n worship_v a_o dead_a man_n &_o not_o know_v what_o he_o be_v nor_o have_v any_o certainty_n from_o those_o that_o go_v before_o of_o he_o he_o mislike_v their_o devotion_n and_o pray_v to_o god_n that_o he_o may_v know_v what_o man_n that_o be_v &_o so_o by_o the_o appointement_n of_o god_n the_o man_n appear_v and_o confess_v himself_o to_o have_v be_v a_o high_a way_n thief_n that_o be_v put_v to_o death_n by_o the_o hand_n of_o justice_n for_o his_o wickedness_n this_o be_v the_o story_n and_o this_o we_o allege_v as_o a_o reason_n among_o other_o why_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n be_v necessary_a in_o the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n that_o people_n may_v not_o be_v deceive_v in_o worship_v wicked_a man_n for_o saint_n give_v the_o honour_n dew_n to_o almighty_a god_n friend_n to_o his_o enemy_n it_o be_v therefore_o good_a sport_n to_o so_o a_o right_n learned_a knight_n as_o you_o be_v forsooth_o by_o a_o new_a strain_n of_o wit_n to_o bring_v it_o to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n wherein_o you_o must_v argue_v thus_o some_o people_n in_o s._n martin_n time_n do_v err_v in_o worship_v a_o dead_a thief_n for_o a_o saint_n without_o any_o sufficient_a reason_n or_o approbation_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la catholic_n may_v err_v in_o worship_v of_o saint_n canonize_v and_o authorize_v by_o the_o church_n upon_o great_a and_o evident_a proof_n of_o their_o holy_a life_n and_o death_n and_o upon_o many_o and_o manifest_a miracle_n be_v not_o this_o a_o trim_a argument_n to_o be_v print_v and_o reprint_v 11._o in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o come_v with_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o purgatory_n whereof_o you_o say_v s._n aug._n
what_o then_o what_o be_v this_o to_o many_o other_o point_n which_o we_o say_v can_v be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n be_v this_o a_o good_a consequence_n the_o church_n be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n ergo_fw-la all_o thing_n else_o and_o even_o scripture_n itself_o be_v know_v only_o by_o scripture_n sure_o no_o and_o yet_o this_o consequence_n must_v be_v good_a or_o else_o sir_n humphrey_n your_o argument_n be_v not_o good_a beside_o these_o word_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o scripture_n compare_v with_o other_o write_n that_o be_v that_o the_o church_n be_v know_v to_o we_o only_o by_o scripture_n not_o by_o other_o write_n whereof_o either_o none_o speak_v so_o clear_o of_o the_o church_n or_o none_o be_v like_o thereunto_o for_o authority_n which_o yet_o do_v not_o exclude_v other_o proof_n or_o mark_n of_o the_o church_n and_o indeed_o the_o church_n be_v most_o know_v and_o best_a prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n of_o any_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n as_o may_v 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neither_o give_v other_o answer_n nor_o any_o reason_n of_o this_o answer_n whereas_o he_o do_v both_o his_o reason_n why_o he_o think_v it_o not_o saint_n augustine_n be_v both_o because_o he_o can_v never_o find_v any_o such_o place_n in_o he_o &_o it_o be_v like_a he_o shall_v find_v it_o if_o it_o be_v there_o he_o have_v be_v so_o diligent_a a_o reader_n of_o s._n augu._n as_o appear_v by_o his_o work_n he_o be_v 9_o bell._n de_fw-fr sanct._n beat_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o as_o alsoe_o because_o no_o haeretique_n that_o object_v it_o do_v note_v the_o place_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v find_v as_o they_o be_v wont_v to_o do_v in_o their_o other_o objection_n and_o it_o be_v like_a will_v do_v in_o this_o if_o they_o can_v find_v it_o but_o because_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v a_o man_n so_o well_o read_v in_o s._n aug._n and_o stand_v so_o upon_o answer_n of_o this_o place_n do_v you_o but_o tell_v we_o where_o it_o be_v and_o you_o shall_v then_o see_v what_o we_o will_v say_v unto_o you_o mean_v while_o look_v a_o little_a better_o in_o bellar._n again_o and_o tell_v we_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o 3._o or_o 4._o other_o answer_n see_v also_o before_o cap._n 10._o the_o other_o place_n of_o saint_n augu._n be_v as_o you_o say_v touch_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n because_o s._n augu._n in_o those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n thou_o be_v peter_n and_o upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n take_v not_o peter_n and_o this_o rock_n to_o be_v all_o one_o but_o the_o rock_n to_o be_v our_o saviour_n himself_o and_o petrus_n to_o be_v a_o derivative_n only_o of_o petra_n to_o which_o you_o tell_v we_o stapleton_n make_v answer_n that_o it_o be_v lapsus_fw-la humanus_fw-la for_o want_v of_o knowledge_n of_o the_o greek_a and_o cause_v by_o the_o diversity_n of_o the_o two_o language_n latin_a and_o greek_a which_o answer_n though_o you_o relate_v in_o a_o slight_a fashion_n as_o if_o you_o take_v it_o to_o be_v in_o sufficient_a yet_o you_o neither_o do_v nor_o indeed_o can_v say_v against_o it_o if_o you_o know_v greek_n and_o latin_a or_o if_o you_o do_v not_o go_v but_o to_o some_o of_o your_o minister_n and_o get_v they_o to_o look_v in_o their_o own_o greek_a lexicon_n i_o mean_v set_v out_o by_o haeretique_n and_o see_v whether_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v a_o adiective_n and_o a_o derivative_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o a_o substantive_a signify_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n and_o let_v they_o look_v yet_o far_o into_o the_o original_a tongue_n itself_o to_o wit_n the_o syriake_n wherein_o our_o saviour_n speak_v 25._o lib._n 1._o ro_n pontif_n cap._n 25._o and_o see_v whither_o they_o be_v not_o more_o the_o same_o to_o wit_n the_o only_a word_n cephas_n in_o both_o place_n on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v well_o know_a saint_n augu._n profess_v no_o great_a skill_n in_o greek_a as_o he_o witness_v of_o himself_o in_o many_o place_n 165._o aug._n in_o psal_n count_v partem_fw-la donat_n &_o ep_v 165._o beside_o saint_n augu._n do_v not_o bring_v this_o exposition_n to_o derogate_v from_o saint_n peter_n primacy_n which_o he_o confess_v in_o 20._o place_n as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o where_o for_o proof_n thereof_o he_o use_v the_o very_a word_n petra_n which_o here_o he_o distinguish_v from_o petrus_n call_v the_o seat_n of_o peter_n this_o rook_n numerate_v sacerdotes_fw-la ab_fw-la ipsa_fw-la sede_fw-la petri_n ipsa_fw-la est_fw-la petra_fw-la quam_fw-la non_fw-la vincunt_fw-la superbae_fw-la inferorum_fw-la porte_fw-fr reckon_v say_v he_o to_o the_o donatist_n the_o priest_n from_o even_o the_o seat_n of_o peter_n that_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v how_o then_o do_v he_o deny_v s._n peter_n primacy_n and_o perpetuity_n of_o his_o sea_n again_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o may_v find_v other_o answer_n for_o saint_n augu._n himself_o in_o his_o retractation_n put_v both_o the_o explication_n wherein_o the_o word_n petrae_fw-la be_v speak_v of_o christ_n and_o of_o peter_n leave_v the_o choice_n to_o the_o reader_n allow_v both_o interpretation_n which_o you_o do_v not_o because_o one_o be_v flat_a against_o you_o whereas_o we_o do_v not_o reject_v either_o as_o be_v against_o we_o but_o only_o we_o show_v the_o one_o not_o to_o be_v so_o good_a because_o it_o stand_v not_o so_o with_o the_o original_a tongue_n which_o that_o saint_n be_v not_o so_o well_o skill_v in_o and_o literal_a sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o no_o haeretique_n can_v deny_v 4._o the_o 3._o place_n be_v out_o of_o s._n ignatius_n for_o proof_n of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n 26_o bellar._n de_fw-fr euchar._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 26_o one_o cup_n be_v distribute_v to_o all_o to_o which_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n make_v answer_n that_o in_o the_o latin_a book_n it_o be_v not_o find_v that_o one_o cup_n be_v give_v to_o all_o but_o for_o all_o against_o which_o you_o can_v say_v nothing_o but_o give_v i_o cause_n to_o say_v much_o against_o you_o for_o first_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o say_v one_o cup_n be_v give_v for_o all_o but_o say_v unus_fw-la calix_fw-la totius_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la one_o cup_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o be_v the_o true_a read_n and_o indeed_o another_o thing_n second_o though_o you_o make_v as_o if_o bellarmine_n do_v only_o bare_o say_v this_o without_o far_a reason_n or_o proof_n yet_o be_v it_o far_o otherwise_o for_o as_o for_o the_o read_n he_o say_v that_o though_o the_o greek_a have_v it_o as_o the_o haeretique_n common_o cite_v that_o be_v as_o you_o do_v here_o yet_o the_o true_a read_n be_v as_o the_o latin_a translation_n which_o we_o follow_v have_v it_o whereto_o he_o say_v there_o be_v more_o trust_n to_o be_v have_v then_o to_o the_o greek_a book_n of_o s._n ignatius_n which_o we_o have_v now_o whereof_o he_o bring_v this_o proof_n that_o the_o testimony_n cite_v out_o of_o he_o as_o we_o find_v in_o the_o work_n of_o s._n anastasius_n and_o theodoret_n agree_v better_o with_o our_o latin_a translation_n then_o the_o greek_a which_o be_v now_o extant_a which_o be_v a_o plain_a proof_n of_o the_o betterne_n and_o great_a pureness_n thereof_o as_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a greek_a edition_n beside_o that_o bellarmine_n prove_v this_o even_o out_o of_o the_o magdeburgian_o because_o they_o cite_v this_o very_a place_n at_o we_o do_v neither_o do_v he_o answer_v this_o authority_n only_o by_o the_o variety_n of_o the_o read_n but_o withal_o he_o give_v 2._o answer_n more_o one_o that_o s._n ignatius_n put_v all_o the_o force_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o cup_n thus_o that_o though_o many_o eat_v &_o many_o drink_n
of_o restraint_n though_o if_o there_o have_v be_v we_o may_v very_o well_o have_v warrant_v it_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o s._n hierome_n who_o do_v no_o way_n admit_v such_o free_a use_n even_o of_o the_o latin_a bible_n for_o have_v speak_v large_o and_o learned_o out_o of_o scripture_n of_o the_o hardness_n and_o obscurity_n of_o scripture_n paulin_n ep._n ad_fw-la paulin_n he_o complain_v that_o every_o body_n do_v presume_v to_o take_v read_v and_o teach_v it_o before_o they_o learn_v it_o themselves_o disallow_v that_o even_o such_o as_o himself_o shall_v go_v from_o saecular_a learning_n present_o to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o interpret_v they_o at_o their_o pleasure_n s._n hierome_n then_o think_v they_o hard_o and_o be_v not_o so_o free_a in_o allow_v the_o read_n of_o scripture_n as_o you_o be_v for_o if_o he_o do_v not_o allow_v the_o read_n thereof_o in_o latin_a to_o man_n and_o scholar_n how_o much_o less_o will_v he_o have_v allow_v it_o in_o english_a to_o woman_n and_o child_n beside_o it_o be_v no_o such_o crime_n to_o forbid_v the_o read_n of_o scripture_n to_o some_o sort_n of_o people_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o this_o testimony_n of_o this_o holy_a father_n who_o in_o the_o same_o place_n also_o say_v moreover_o that_o the_o begin_n of_o genesis_n with_o the_o beginning_n and_o end_n of_o ezechiel_n be_v not_o to_o be_v read_v by_o the_o jew_n till_o they_o come_v to_o 30._o year_n of_o age_n which_o kind_n of_o forbid_v be_v no_o derogation_n but_o a_o great_a commendation_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o i_o call_v it_o but_o a_o kind_n of_o forbid_v for_o it_o be_v far_o different_a though_o you_o make_v it_o all_o one_o from_o the_o forbid_v of_o haereticall_a book_n for_o these_o be_v forbid_v as_o wicked_a detestable_a &_o of_o themselves_o dangerous_a the_o other_o out_o of_o reverence_n and_o honour_n dew_n unto_o they_o and_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o danger_n which_o may_v come_v by_o they_o not_o of_o themselves_o but_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o weakness_n of_o the_o reader_n for_o want_v of_o necessary_a learning_n &_o humility_n both_o which_o a_o man_n that_o be_v to_o handle_v the_o scripture_n must_v come_v well_o provide_v of_o 4._o for_o cornelius_n agrippa_n it_o make_v no_o more_o matter_n what_o he_o say_v than_o what_o you_o say_v for_o it_o be_v but_o ask_v my_o brother_n if_o i_o be_v a_o thief_n but_o it_o be_v fine_a that_o these_o fellow_n can_v be_v invite_v by_o a_o general_a council_n with_o promise_n of_o all_o security_n that_o can_v be_v desire_v to_o come_v and_o propound_v what_o they_o can_v say_v out_o of_o scripture_n or_o any_o way_n else_o and_o yet_o when_o they_o come_v before_o a_o judge_n they_o will_v dispute_v forsooth_o and_o by_o dispute_v avoid_v the_o rigour_n of_o the_o law_n indeed_o i_o can_v blame_v they_o but_o if_o this_o seem_v reason_n to_o you_o why_o do_v you_o deny_v catholic_a priest_n the_o like_a liberty_n of_o disputation_n how_o often_o and_o earnest_o have_v they_o desire_v it_o but_o can_v never_o obtain_v it_o but_o neither_o even_o in_o that_o case_n with_o we_o be_v people_n deny_v any_o convenient_a liberty_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o credit_n to_o be_v give_v to_o cornelius_n agrippa_n for_o be_v a_o magician_n he_o may_v very_o well_o be_v say_v to_o have_v shake_v hand_n with_o the_o devil_n the_o father_n of_o lie_n which_o you_o yourself_o it_o seem_v know_v and_o suspect_v that_o his_o testimony_n will_v not_o pass_v for_o currant_n you_o tell_v we_o we_o shall_v hear_v our_o own_o author_n how_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o scripture_n for_o you_o tremble_v to_o speak_v it_o as_o your_o word_n be_v you_o tell_v we_o some_o say_v they_o be_v dead_a character_n a_o shell_n without_o a_o kernel_n a_o leaden_a rule_n a_o wood_n of_o thief_n a_o shop_n of_o haeretique_n imperfect_a doubtful_a obscure_a full_a of_o perplexity_n with_o many_o more_o epithet_n which_o i_o let_v pass_v these_o be_v of_o the_o very_o worst_a and_o especial_o the_o last_o 4._o for_o which_o you_o allege_v lessius_fw-la allege_v likewise_o for_o every_o one_o of_o the_o rest_n a_o several_a author_n whereto_o not_o to_o stand_v answer_v every_o one_o several_o the_o matter_n be_v the_o same_o of_o one_o and_o all_o i_o say_v in_o general_a that_o these_o thing_n be_v speak_v not_o of_o the_o scripture_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o that_o be_v consist_v of_o both_o word_n and_o meaning_n as_o it_o be_v life_n and_o soul_n together_o but_o of_o the_o bare_a word_n and_o letter_n only_o which_o haeretique_n still_o do_v and_o even_o have_v abuse_v as_o the_o devil_n himself_o do_v to_o our_o saviour_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v a_o wood_n of_o thief_n for_o as_o thief_n run_v into_o a_o wood_n to_o escape_v thereby_o so_o do_v haeretique_n run_v in_o all_o controversy_n to_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o scripture_n leave_v the_o true_a sense_n and_o frame_v a_o false_a one_o according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n 17_o tert._n de_fw-fr praes_fw-la cap._n 17_o which_o be_v that_o that_o tertullian_n say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o good_a to_o be_v do_v with_o haeretique_n by_o scripture_n for_o that_o either_o they_o deny_v the_o book_n or_o pervert_v the_o sense_n and_o whatsoever_o we_o say_v they_o deny_v or_o what_o we_o deny_v they_o defend_v and_o so_o a_o wood_n of_o thief_n and_o shop_n of_o haeretique_n dead_a character_n and_o the_o like_a be_v all_o one_o the_o meaning_n of_o all_o be_v so_o as_o these_o speech_n be_v not_o mean_v of_o the_o scripture_n proper_o in_o itself_o as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o as_o it_o be_v you_o or_o as_o it_o be_v make_v by_o you_o and_o other_o haeretique_n and_o yet_o alas_o good_a man_n you_o tremble_v to_o hear_v the_o word_n that_o do_v but_o express_v your_o own_o deed_n alac_n for_o you_o that_o your_o stomach_n be_v so_o queasy_a that_o it_o can_v endure_v to_o hear_v that_o which_o you_o be_v bold_a and_o hardy_a enough_o to_o do_v by_o your_o daily_a practice_n 5._o but_o because_o you_o be_v so_o dainty_a that_o your_o stomach_n turn_v at_o what_o our_o modern_a author_n say_v of_o you_o let_v we_o see_v whether_o it_o will_v brook_v any_o better_a what_o that_o ancient_a &_o learned_a father_n s._n hierome_n say_v let_v we_o see_v whether_o your_o tender_a conscience_n will_v be_v so_o scandalize_v at_o his_o word_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o be_v now_o at_o we_o gal._n hierom._n 1._o gal._n martion_n &_o basilides_n say_v he_o &_o caeterae_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la pest_n non_fw-la habent_fw-la dei_fw-la euangelium_fw-la quia_fw-la non_fw-la habent_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la sine_fw-la quo_fw-la humanum_fw-la fit_a euangelium_fw-la quod_fw-la docetur_fw-la nec_fw-la putemus_fw-la in_o verbis_fw-la scripturarum_fw-la esse_fw-la euamgelium_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o sensu_fw-la non_fw-la in_o superficie_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o medulla_n none_o in_o sermonum_fw-la folijs_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o radice_fw-la rationis_fw-la dicitur_fw-la in_o propheta_fw-la de_fw-fr deo_fw-la 2._o michae_n 2._o sermon_n eius_fw-la boni_fw-la sunt_fw-la cum_fw-la eo_fw-la tunc_fw-la scriptura_fw-la utilis_fw-la est_fw-la audientibus_fw-la cum_fw-la absque_fw-la christo_fw-la non_fw-la dicitur_fw-la cum_fw-la absque_fw-la patre_fw-la non_fw-la profertur_fw-la cum_fw-la sine_fw-la spiritu_fw-la non_fw-la eam_fw-la insinuat_fw-la ille_fw-la qui_fw-la praedicat_fw-la alioquin_fw-la &_o diabolus_fw-la qui_fw-la loquor_fw-la de_fw-fr scripture_n &_o omnes_fw-la haereses_fw-la secundum_fw-la ezechiel_n inde_fw-la sibi_fw-la consuunt_fw-la ceruicalia_fw-la quae_fw-la ponant_fw-la sub_fw-la cubito_fw-la universae_fw-la aetatis_fw-la etc._n etc._n grande_n periculum_fw-la est_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la loqui_fw-la ne_fw-la fortè_fw-la interpretatione_n perversa_fw-la de_fw-la evangelio_fw-la christi_fw-la hominis_fw-la fiat_fw-la evangelium_fw-la aut_fw-la quod_fw-la peius_fw-la est_fw-la diaboli_fw-la martion_n basilides_n and_o 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thus_o scotus_n not_o only_o teach_v transubstantiation_n himself_o but_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o make_v most_o frequent_a mention_n of_o the_o change_n and_o conversion_n of_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o scotus_n must_v have_v hold_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o substance_n thereof_o to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o s._n ambrose_n at_o the_o least_o and_o if_o so_o ancient_a then_o even_o from_o the_o beginning_n his_o meaning_n therefore_o in_o say_v it_o be_v determine_v of_o late_a in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n be_v only_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o bless_a sauiour_n body_n either_o by_o transubstantiation_n that_o be_v by_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n or_o otherwise_o so_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v 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be_v so_o whole_o you_o that_o maldonat_n expound_v a_o place_n in_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n say_v that_o he_o be_v persuade_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n and_o see_v that_o caluin_n expound_v the_o same_o place_n as_o he_o do_v he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o mind_n and_o for_o theodoret_n you_o say_v that_o valentia_n observe_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o consecrate_a element_n do_v remain_v in_o their_o proper_a substance_n and_o shape_n and_o figure_n he_o make_v the_o like_a answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o one_o or_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n before_o the_o question_n be_v debate_v do_v think_v less_o considerate_o and_o true_o of_o transubstantiation_n this_o be_v all_o that_o ever_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o much_o to_o your_o shame_n shall_v upon_o examination_n appear_v io._n aug_n er_fw-mi 26._o in_o io._n 26._o for_o s._n augustine_n then_o what_o be_v it_o that_o he_o say_v in_o favour_n of_o you_o in_o expound_v that_o verse_n of_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n where_o our_o saviour_n say_v your_o father_n have_v eat_v manna_n and_o be_v dead_a he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o their_o father_n that_o be_v the_o naughty_a and_o unbelieve_a people_n of_o the_o jew_n die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o in_o their_o soul_n because_o they_o in_o eat_v manna_n do_v consider_v only_o what_o it_o present_v to_o their_o outward_a sense_n and_o not_o what_o it_o represent_v unto_o their_o mind_n by_o faith_n whereas_o the_o good_a man_n among_o they_o as_o moses_n aaron_n phinees_n and_o other_o who_o he_o say_v be_v our_o father_n and_o not_o they_o do_v not_o die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o because_o they_o do_v not_o consider_v it_o only_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n but_o according_a to_o faith_n remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o figure_n and_o a_o figure_n of_o this_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o we_o have_v as_o the_o same_o holy_a father_n say_v express_o in_o the_o same_o place_n hunc_fw-la panem_fw-la significavit_fw-la manna_n manna_n signify_v this_o bread_n and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o judas_n and_o other_o bad_a christian_n which_o receive_v of_o the_o altar_n and_o by_o receive_v die_v because_o they_o receive_v it_o ill_o do_v not_o this_o make_n much_o for_o you_o now_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o see_v how_o whole_o s._n aug._n be_v you_o how_o he_o say_v that_o manna_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o this_o our_o heavenly_a bread_n that_o we_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o altar_n do_v not_o all_o this_o make_v fine_o for_o you_o but_o you_o will_v say_v then_o if_o it_o make_v nothing_o for_o we_o why_o do_v maldonate_fw-it say_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n he_o will_v have_v interpret_v otherwise_o i_o answer_v not_o that_o this_o interpretation_n be_v for_o you_o but_o because_o the_o other_o be_v more_o against_o you_o to_o wit_n thus_o whereas_o s._n augustine_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o they_o that_o do_v eat_v manna_n die_v to_o be_v because_o they_o do_v not_o eat_v it_o with_o faith_n maldonate_fw-it make_v the_o difference_n to_o be_v not_o so_o much_o between_o the_o person_n which_o do_v eat_v as_o between_o the_o food_n which_o they_o do_v eat_v say_v that_o our_o saviour_n make_v this_o a_o special_a prerogative_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n far_o above_o the_o manna_n that_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n give_v life_n to_o they_o that_o eat_v it_o which_o the_o manna_n do_v not_o give_v of_o itself_o and_o indeed_o with_o dew_n reverence_n be_v it_o speak_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n this_o interpretation_n be_v more_o suitable_a to_o the_o text_n and_o discourse_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o that_o whole_a chapter_n which_o be_v to_o compare_v and_o prefer_v that_o true_a bread_n which_o he_o say_v his_o heavenly_a father_n do_v give_v before_o that_o of_o manna_n which_o moses_n give_v their_o father_n it_o be_v more_o also_o against_o the_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n in_o regard_n it_o be_v more_o for_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n which_o they_o labour_v might_n &_o main_a to_o depress_v and_o that_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o caluin_n rather_o follow_v the_o former_a interpretation_n not_o for_o any_o love_n to_o truth_n or_o reverence_v which_o he_o bear_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n 27._o how_o false_a then_o and_o absurd_a be_v that_o scoff_a speech_n of_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o the_o next_o leaf_n of_o your_o book_n where_o you_o say_v ironical_o thus_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o corporal_a presence_n for_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o these_o day_n as_o if_o forsooth_o maldonate_fw-it do_v say_n that_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n concern_v the_o same_o if_o he_o have_v live_v now_o in_o these_o time_n you_o hereby_o insinuate_v as_o if_o s._n augustine_n think_v otherwise_o thereof_o then_o we_o now_o teach_v but_o how_o gross_o false_a this_o be_v may_v appear_v plain_o by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n whereof_o either_o s._n aug._n or_o maldonate_fw-it speak_v but_o how_o they_o that_o eat_v manna_n have_v dye_v and_o they_o that_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v live_v according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n which_o be_v clean_o a_o different_a thing_n wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v line_v s._n aug._n somewhat_o but_o maldonate_fw-it you_o be_v line_v much_o more_o by_o make_v as_o if_o he_o acknowledge_v s._n augustine_n to_o be_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v