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neither_o do_v nor_o indeed_o can_v say_v against_o it_o if_o you_o know_v greek_n and_o latin_a or_o if_o you_o do_v not_o go_v but_o to_o some_o of_o your_o minister_n and_o get_v they_o to_o look_v in_o their_o own_o greek_a lexicon_n i_o mean_v set_v out_o by_o haeretique_n and_o see_v whether_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v a_o adiective_n and_o a_o derivative_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o a_o substantive_a signify_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n and_o let_v they_o look_v yet_o far_o into_o the_o original_a tongue_n itself_o to_o wit_n the_o syriake_n wherein_o our_o saviour_n speak_v 25._o lib._n 1._o ro_n pontif_n cap._n 25._o and_o see_v whither_o they_o be_v not_o more_o the_o same_o to_o wit_n the_o only_a word_n cephas_n in_o both_o place_n on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v well_o know_a saint_n augu._n profess_v no_o great_a skill_n in_o greek_a as_o he_o witness_v of_o himself_o in_o many_o place_n 165._o aug._n in_o psal_n 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the_o explication_n wherein_o the_o word_n petrae_fw-la be_v speak_v of_o christ_n and_o of_o peter_n leave_v the_o choice_n to_o the_o reader_n allow_v both_o interpretation_n which_o you_o do_v not_o because_o one_o be_v flat_a against_o you_o whereas_o we_o do_v not_o reject_v either_o as_o be_v against_o we_o but_o only_o we_o show_v the_o one_o not_o to_o be_v so_o good_a because_o it_o stand_v not_o so_o with_o the_o original_a tongue_n which_o that_o saint_n be_v not_o so_o well_o skill_v in_o and_o literal_a sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o no_o haeretique_n can_v deny_v 4._o the_o 3._o place_n be_v out_o of_o s._n ignatius_n for_o proof_n of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n 26_o bellar._n de_fw-fr euchar._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 26_o one_o cup_n be_v distribute_v to_o all_o to_o which_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n make_v answer_n that_o in_o the_o latin_a book_n it_o be_v not_o find_v that_o one_o cup_n be_v give_v to_o all_o but_o for_o all_o against_o which_o you_o can_v say_v 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of_o restraint_n though_o if_o there_o have_v be_v we_o may_v very_o well_o have_v warrant_v it_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o s._n hierome_n who_o do_v no_o way_n admit_v such_o free_a use_n even_o of_o the_o latin_a bible_n for_o have_v speak_v large_o and_o learned_o out_o of_o scripture_n of_o the_o hardness_n and_o obscurity_n of_o scripture_n paulin_n ep._n ad_fw-la paulin_n he_o complain_v that_o every_o body_n do_v presume_v to_o take_v read_v and_o teach_v it_o before_o they_o learn_v it_o themselves_o disallow_v that_o even_o such_o as_o himself_o shall_v go_v from_o saecular_a learning_n present_o to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o interpret_v they_o at_o their_o pleasure_n s._n hierome_n then_o think_v they_o hard_o and_o be_v not_o so_o free_a in_o allow_v the_o read_n of_o scripture_n as_o you_o be_v for_o if_o he_o do_v not_o allow_v the_o read_n thereof_o in_o latin_a to_o man_n and_o scholar_n how_o much_o less_o will_v he_o have_v allow_v it_o in_o english_a to_o woman_n and_o child_n beside_o it_o be_v no_o such_o crime_n to_o forbid_v the_o read_n of_o scripture_n to_o some_o sort_n of_o people_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o this_o testimony_n of_o this_o holy_a father_n who_o in_o the_o same_o place_n also_o say_v moreover_o that_o the_o begin_n of_o genesis_n with_o the_o beginning_n and_o end_n of_o ezechiel_n be_v not_o to_o be_v read_v by_o the_o jew_n till_o they_o come_v to_o 30._o year_n of_o age_n which_o kind_n of_o forbid_v be_v no_o derogation_n but_o a_o great_a commendation_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o i_o call_v it_o but_o a_o kind_n of_o forbid_v for_o it_o be_v far_o different_a though_o you_o make_v it_o all_o one_o from_o the_o forbid_v of_o haereticall_a book_n for_o these_o be_v forbid_v as_o wicked_a detestable_a &_o of_o themselves_o dangerous_a the_o other_o out_o of_o reverence_n and_o honour_n dew_n unto_o they_o and_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o danger_n which_o may_v come_v by_o they_o not_o of_o themselves_o but_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o weakness_n of_o the_o reader_n for_o want_v of_o necessary_a learning_n &_o humility_n both_o which_o a_o man_n that_o be_v to_o handle_v the_o scripture_n must_v come_v well_o provide_v of_o 4._o for_o cornelius_n agrippa_n it_o make_v no_o more_o matter_n what_o he_o say_v than_o what_o you_o say_v for_o it_o be_v but_o ask_v my_o brother_n if_o i_o be_v a_o thief_n but_o it_o be_v fine_a that_o these_o fellow_n can_v be_v invite_v by_o a_o general_a council_n with_o promise_n of_o all_o security_n that_o can_v be_v desire_v to_o come_v and_o propound_v what_o they_o can_v say_v out_o of_o scripture_n or_o any_o way_n else_o and_o yet_o when_o they_o come_v before_o a_o judge_n they_o will_v dispute_v forsooth_o and_o by_o dispute_v avoid_v the_o rigour_n of_o the_o law_n indeed_o i_o can_v blame_v they_o but_o if_o this_o seem_v reason_n to_o you_o why_o do_v you_o deny_v catholic_a priest_n the_o like_a liberty_n of_o disputation_n how_o often_o and_o earnest_o have_v they_o desire_v it_o but_o can_v never_o obtain_v it_o but_o neither_o even_o in_o that_o case_n with_o we_o be_v people_n deny_v any_o convenient_a liberty_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o credit_n to_o be_v give_v to_o cornelius_n agrippa_n for_o be_v a_o magician_n he_o may_v very_o well_o be_v say_v to_o have_v shake_v hand_n with_o the_o devil_n the_o father_n of_o lie_n which_o you_o yourself_o it_o seem_v know_v and_o suspect_v that_o his_o testimony_n will_v not_o pass_v for_o currant_n you_o tell_v we_o we_o shall_v hear_v our_o own_o author_n how_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o scripture_n for_o you_o tremble_v to_o speak_v it_o as_o your_o word_n be_v you_o tell_v we_o some_o say_v they_o be_v dead_a character_n a_o shell_n without_o a_o kernel_n a_o leaden_a rule_n a_o wood_n of_o thief_n a_o shop_n of_o haeretique_n imperfect_a doubtful_a obscure_a full_a of_o perplexity_n with_o many_o more_o epithet_n which_o i_o let_v pass_v these_o be_v of_o the_o very_o worst_a and_o especial_o the_o last_o 4._o for_o which_o you_o allege_v lessius_fw-la allege_v likewise_o for_o every_o one_o of_o the_o rest_n a_o several_a author_n whereto_o not_o to_o stand_v answer_v every_o one_o several_o the_o matter_n be_v the_o same_o of_o one_o and_o all_o i_o say_v in_o general_a that_o these_o thing_n be_v speak_v not_o of_o the_o scripture_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o that_o be_v consist_v of_o both_o word_n and_o meaning_n as_o it_o be_v life_n and_o soul_n together_o but_o of_o the_o bare_a word_n and_o letter_n only_o which_o haeretique_n still_o do_v and_o even_o have_v abuse_v as_o the_o devil_n himself_o do_v to_o our_o saviour_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v a_o wood_n of_o thief_n for_o as_o thief_n run_v into_o a_o wood_n to_o escape_v thereby_o so_o do_v haeretique_n run_v in_o all_o controversy_n to_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o scripture_n leave_v the_o true_a sense_n and_o frame_v a_o false_a one_o according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n 17_o tert._n de_fw-fr praes_fw-la cap._n 17_o which_o be_v that_o that_o tertullian_n say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o good_a to_o be_v do_v with_o haeretique_n by_o scripture_n for_o that_o either_o they_o deny_v the_o book_n or_o pervert_v the_o sense_n and_o whatsoever_o we_o say_v they_o deny_v or_o what_o we_o deny_v they_o defend_v and_o so_o a_o wood_n of_o thief_n and_o shop_n of_o haeretique_n dead_a character_n and_o the_o like_a be_v all_o one_o the_o meaning_n of_o all_o be_v so_o as_o these_o speech_n be_v not_o mean_v of_o the_o scripture_n proper_o in_o itself_o as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o as_o it_o be_v you_o or_o as_o it_o be_v make_v by_o you_o and_o other_o haeretique_n and_o yet_o alas_o good_a man_n you_o tremble_v to_o hear_v the_o word_n that_o do_v but_o express_v your_o own_o deed_n alac_n for_o you_o that_o your_o stomach_n be_v so_o queasy_a that_o it_o can_v endure_v to_o hear_v that_o which_o you_o be_v bold_a and_o hardy_a enough_o to_o do_v by_o your_o daily_a practice_n 5._o but_o because_o you_o be_v so_o dainty_a that_o your_o stomach_n turn_v at_o what_o our_o modern_a author_n say_v of_o you_o let_v we_o see_v whether_o it_o will_v brook_v any_o better_a what_o that_o ancient_a &_o learned_a father_n s._n hierome_n say_v let_v we_o see_v whether_o your_o tender_a conscience_n will_v be_v so_o scandalize_v at_o his_o word_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o be_v now_o at_o we_o gal._n hierom._n 1._o gal._n martion_n &_o basilides_n say_v he_o &_o caeterae_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la pest_n non_fw-la habent_fw-la dei_fw-la euangelium_fw-la quia_fw-la non_fw-la habent_fw-la spiritum_fw-la sanctum_fw-la sine_fw-la quo_fw-la humanum_fw-la fit_a euangelium_fw-la quod_fw-la docetur_fw-la nec_fw-la putemus_fw-la in_o verbis_fw-la scripturarum_fw-la esse_fw-la euamgelium_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o sensu_fw-la non_fw-la in_o superficie_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o medulla_n none_o in_o sermonum_fw-la folijs_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o radice_fw-la rationis_fw-la 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of_o gabr._n and_o pet._n lomb._n the_o one_o say_v it_o be_v not_o certain_a but_o it_o may_v seem_v probable_a that_o god_n reveal_v unto_o saint_n all_o those_o suit_n which_o man_n present_v unto_o they_o the_o other_o that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o soul_n of_o saint_n hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o their_o suppliant_n well_o be_v it_o so_o sir_n hum._n let_v it_o be_v uncertain_a as_o you_o say_v it_o be_v whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n or_o not_o yet_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o all_o that_o that_o our_o doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v uncertain_a for_o as_o bellar._n well_o note_v it_o may_v be_v good_a and_o profitable_a to_o invoke_v the_o saint_n though_o they_o themselves_o shall_v not_o hear_v we_o but_o only_o almighty_a god_n for_o they_o what_o be_v you_o the_o better_a then_o but_o beside_o it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v we_o or_o no_o that_o be_v it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o they_o know_v 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speak_v not_o doubtful_o but_o certain_o of_o invocation_n and_o so_o go_v on_o with_o his_o discourse_n prove_v that_o notwithstanding_o that_o almighty_a god_n be_v of_o himself_o most_o propitious_a and_o merciful_a yet_o that_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o the_o saint_n may_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o after_o that_o fall_v to_o discourse_v of_o the_o manner_n how_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n the_o like_a i_o may_v say_v of_o peter_n lombard_n who_o though_o he_o say_v only_o in_o those_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n yet_o for_o their_o hear_n or_o see_v our_o prayer_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o the_o angel_n do_v he_o make_v no_o doubt_n sicut_fw-la enim_fw-la angelisit_fw-la a_o etiam_fw-la sanctis_fw-la qui_fw-la deo_fw-la assistunt_fw-la petitiones_fw-la nostrae_fw-la innotescunt_fw-la in_o verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la quod_fw-la contemplantur_fw-la say_v he_o for_o as_o our_o prayer_n become_v know_v to_o the_o angel_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o they_o behold_v so_o also_o to_o the_o saint_n who_o stand_v before_o god_n so_o as_o here_o be_v something_o more_o sir_n humphrey_n with_o your_o good_a leave_n then_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o doctor_n though_o you_o be_v please_v to_o conclude_v out_o of_o they_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o but_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n though_o if_o there_o be_v but_o probability_n only_o it_o be_v more_o than_o you_o have_v for_o any_o point_n of_o your_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v you_o 10._o for_o caietan_n authority_n concern_v the_o miracle_n whereon_o the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n be_v ground_v it_o be_v true_a as_o he_o say_v the_o authority_n of_o they_o be_v but_o humane_a as_o rely_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n but_o what_o then_o ergo_fw-la we_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o the_o canonize_a saint_n be_v in_o heaven_n or_o no_o this_o be_v your_o conclusion_n and_o it_o be_v like_o one_o of_o you_o indeed_o but_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o the_o certainty_n of_o canonisation_n depend_v upon_o a_o more_o certain_a ground_n to_o wit_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a and_o continual_a assistance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n to_o who_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o suffer_v christ_n vicar_n use_v humane_a diligence_n and_o proceed_v prudent_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o that_o moment_n to_o err_v and_o the_o proof_n of_o miracle_n be_v only_o use_v that_o he_o may_v proceed_v prudent_o &_o upon_o good_a ground_n &_o in_o that_o sense_n miracle_n be_v say_v to_o ground_n the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n not_o that_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o one_o do_v whole_o depend_v on_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o other_o so_o as_o caietan_n help_v you_o not_o a_o jot_n to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n no_o more_o than_o do_v s._n aug._n and_o sulpitius_n in_o those_o authoritye_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o they_o for_o they_o speak_v not_o a_o word_n of_o any_o canonize_a saint_n and_o as_o for_o the_o place_n of_o s._n aug._n bellarm._n answer_v that_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o he_o which_o word_n perhaps_o you_o take_v hold_v of_o as_o if_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v it_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a answer_n or_o rather_o a_o grant_n of_o the_o authority_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o bell._n use_v that_o word_n out_o of_o modesty_n because_o as_o he_o say_v he_o can_v never_o find_v it_o in_o any_o work_n of_o s._n aug._n which_o notwithstanding_o he_o will_v not_o say_v peremptory_o it_o be_v not_o there_o but_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o s._n augustin_n sir_n humphrey_n tell_v we_o where_o out_o of_o your_o great_a read_n &_o then_o you_o shall_v find_v 3._o or_o 4._o several_a answer_n ready_a in_o bellarmine_n without_o any_o peradventure_o and_o indeed_o any_o man_n of_o ordinary_a wit_n will_v present_o see_v the_o place_n do_v not_o urge_v a_o whit_n for_o who_o do_v doubt_n but_o many_o dead_a man_n be_v mighty_o honour_v by_o some_o man_n here_o upon_o earth_n who_o soul_n be_v bury_v full_a low_a in_o hell_n another_o answer_n of_o bellarmine_n be_v that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o place_n in_o s._n aug._n it_o may_v be_v very_o well_o understand_v of_o the_o martyr_n of_o the_o donatist_n who_o be_v honour_v by_o those_o haeretique_n for_o martyr_n who_o soul_n be_v torment_v in_o hell_n as_o the_o same_o b._n saint_n say_v of_o they_o elsewhere_o 68_o aug._n ep_v 68_o vivebant_fw-la ut_fw-la latrones_fw-la honorabantur_fw-la ut_fw-la martyr_n they_o live_v as_o thief_n and_o be_v honour_v as_o martyr_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o our_o canonize_a saint_n be_v here_o any_o the_o least_o shadow_n thereof_o for_o that_o story_n of_o sulpitius_n it_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v one_o worship_v by_o the_o people_n for_o 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therefore_o good_a sport_n to_o so_o a_o right_n learned_a knight_n as_o you_o be_v forsooth_o by_o a_o new_a strain_n of_o wit_n to_o bring_v it_o to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n wherein_o you_o must_v argue_v thus_o some_o people_n in_o s._n martin_n time_n do_v err_v in_o worship_v a_o dead_a thief_n for_o a_o saint_n without_o any_o sufficient_a reason_n or_o approbation_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la catholic_n may_v err_v in_o worship_v of_o saint_n canonize_v and_o authorize_v by_o the_o church_n upon_o great_a and_o evident_a proof_n of_o their_o holy_a life_n and_o death_n and_o upon_o many_o and_o manifest_a miracle_n be_v not_o this_o a_o trim_a argument_n to_o be_v print_v and_o reprint_v 11._o in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o come_v with_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o purgatory_n whereof_o you_o say_v s._n aug._n
index_n expurgatorius_fw-la you_o will_v acknowledge_v the_o novelty_n of_o your_o church_n and_o submit_v yourself_o with_o a_o implicit_a faith_n to_o the_o roman_a church_n so_o you_o for_o your_o counterchallenge_n sir_n humphrey_n have_v you_o mark_v the_o challenge_n well_o you_o may_v have_v spare_v it_o for_o the_o jesuit_n require_v you_o to_o perform_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o many_o on_o the_o catholic_a part_n have_v perform_v ready_a to_o your_o hand_n that_o be_v that_o you_o shall_v bring_v such_o a_o catalogue_n of_o succession_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n as_o we_o do_v many_o of_o we_o as_o sander_n bellarmine_n gualterus_n &_o other_o you_o ask_v by_o what_o authority_n we_o impose_v new_a article_n of_o belief_n upon_o man_n this_o question_n be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o i_o answer_v by_o deny_v your_o supposition_n for_o we_o do_v not_o impose_v new_a article_n upon_o man_n but_o defend_v the_o old_a against_o new_a 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often_o as_o he_o shall_v go_v about_o that_o business_n shall_v in_o like_a manner_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n make_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n as_o christ_n himself_o do_v see_v that_o neither_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o his_o drift_n be_v only_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a word_n in_o scripture_n whereby_o it_o be_v promise_v that_o either_o priest_n or_o lay_v man_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o consecrate_v &_o that_o though_o christ_n do_v himself_o consecrate_v &_o command_v his_o apostle_n so_o to_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o that_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o add_v any_o express_a promise_n that_o the_o same_o effect_n shall_v always_o follow_v whensoever_o any_o man_n shall_v offer_v to_o consecrate_v which_o be_v not_o against_o us._n for_o we_o gather_v that_o power_n to_o pertain_v to_o the_o apostle_n successor_n in_o priesthood_n out_o of_o the_o word_n 1._o council_n trid._n sess_n 22._o q._n 1._o hoc_fw-la facite_fw-la in_o meam_fw-la commemorationem_fw-la not_o bare_o but_o as_o they_o have_v be_v ever_o understand_v by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v against_o we_o that_o we_o may_v rather_o urge_v it_o against_o you_o upon_o the_o same_o occasion_n that_o bishop_n fisher_n do_v to_o wit_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o tradition_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n and_o so_o by_o this_o it_o be_v manifest_v how_o much_o you_o have_v abuse_v this_o holy_a bishop_n meaning_n as_o you_o do_v other_o two_o bishop_n that_o follow_v 18._o the_o one_o be_v gul._n durandus_fw-la bishop_n of_o mand_v out_o of_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o will_v prove_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o to_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n of_o this_o sacrament_n for_o what_o else_o you_o will_v have_v with_o he_o i_o see_v not_o but_o special_o because_o have_v cite_v he_o thus_o in_o english_a christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n by_o his_o heavenly_a benediction_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o word_n the_o bread_n be_v turn_v unto_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n then_o you_o put_v these_o word_n in_o latin_a tunc_fw-la confecit_fw-la cum_fw-la benedixit_fw-la they_o he_o make_v it_o when_o he_o bless_v it_o whereby_o you_o seem_v to_o put_v the_o force_n of_o this_o testimony_n in_o those_o word_n as_o if_o by_o they_o you_o will_v prove_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la that_o christ_n do_v not_o consecrate_v by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o that_o blessing_n but_o durand_n himself_o shall_v disprove_v you_o sir_n knight_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v benedixit_fw-la benedictione_n caelesti_fw-la &_o virtute_fw-la verbi_fw-la qua_fw-la convertitur_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la to_o wit_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la he_o bless_v it_o by_o the_o heavenly_a blessing_n and_o power_n of_o the_o word_n by_o which_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n 14._o durand_n rat_n cap._n 41._o n._n 14._o to_o wit_n this_o be_v my_o body_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la which_o last_o word_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v sir_n humphrey_n why_o you_o cut_v of_o but_o i_o need_v not_o ask_v for_o any_o man_n may_v see_v it_o be_v because_o you_o will_v not_o have_v that_o powerful_a benediction_n whereof_o this_o author_n speak_v to_o consist_v in_o those_o sacred_a word_n but_o durand_n both_o in_o this_o very_a sentence_n and_o often_o in_o the_o same_o place_n attribute_v most_o plain_o that_o power_n to_o those_o very_a word_n not_o to_o any_o other_o blessing_n as_o may_v appear_v in_o that_o he_o say_v that_o we_o do_v bless_v ex_fw-la illa_fw-la virtute_fw-la quam_fw-la christus_fw-la indidit_fw-la verbis_fw-la by_o that_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o word_n 19_o odo_n caemeracensis_n be_v the_o other_o bishop_n that_o follow_v who_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o cite_v and_o as_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n his_o word_n be_v these_o as_o you_o bring_v they_o christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n and_o then_o make_v that_o his_o body_n which_o be_v first_o bread_n and_o so_o by_o blessing_n it_o become_v flesh_n for_o otherwise_o he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v after_o he_o have_v bless_v it_o this_o be_v my_o body_n unless_o by_o blessing_n it_o he_o have_v make_v it_o his_o body_n which_o word_n you_o put_v in_o the_o margin_n in_o latin_a imperfect_o and_o translate_v even_o they_o corrupt_o benedixit_fw-la suum_fw-la corpus_fw-la you_o translate_v christ_n bless_v bread_n qui_fw-la priùs_fw-la erat_fw-la panis_fw-la benedictione_n factus_fw-la est_fw-la caro_fw-la which_o in_o true_a english_a be_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o by_o blessing_n be_v make_v flesh_n you_o translate_v otherwise_o as_o may_v appear_v by_o your_o word_n though_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o end_n you_o shall_v so_o
he_o bring_v these_o which_o you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v wherefore_o in_o this_o you_o come_v short_a of_o the_o very_a minister_n honesty_n how_o little_a then_o must_v you_o needs_o have_v last_o i_o answer_v this_o very_a authority_n be_v against_o you_o in_o the_o two_o thing_n in_o controversy_n between_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n both_o which_o it_o allow_v and_o be_v against_o we_o only_o in_o one_o not_o so_o proper_o in_o controversy_n to_o wit_n in_o that_o it_o say_v this_o change_n be_v wrought_v not_o by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o the_o benediction_n that_o go_v before_o which_o benediction_n it_o do_v not_o say_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o word_n or_o a_o deed_n and_o it_o be_v as_o like_a to_o be_v some_o word_n as_o otherwise_o but_o whether_o word_n or_o deed_n it_o be_v as_o easy_a to_o consecrate_v by_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n as_o by_o any_o other_o word_n or_o outward_a deed_n so_o as_o herein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o have_v no_o help_n from_o any_o man_n either_o salmeron_n or_o the_o grecian_n or_o even_o your_o friend_n chamier_n for_o he_o discover_v your_o bad_a deal_n 22._o after_o this_o matter_n of_o the_o blessing_n you_o come_v back_o again_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o transubstantiation_n out_o of_o scripture_n tell_v we_o that_o bellarmine_n say_v it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a place_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v it_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n as_o scotus_n say_v for_o though_o say_v bellarmine_n that_o place_n which_o we_o bring_v seem_v so_o plain_a that_o it_o may_v compel_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a yet_o it_o may_v just_o be_v doubt_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o see_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n as_o scotus_n have_v think_v the_o contrary_n in_o which_o word_n bellarmine_n say_v but_o what_o we_o grant_v before_o to_o wit_n that_o though_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n in_o the_o plain_a connatural_a and_o obvious_a sense_n infer_v transubstantiation_n yet_o because_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o some_o learned_a man_n they_o may_v have_v another_o sense_n which_o prove_v only_o the_o real_a presence_n without_o transubstantiation_n it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n they_o can_v enforce_v a_o man_n to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n out_o of_o they_o what_o of_o all_o this_o nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n sir_n knight_n though_o in_o translate_n this_o saying_n of_o bellarmine_n you_n have_v corrupt_v it_o in_o two_o place_n the_o one_o that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v one_o scripture_n or_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a you_o change_v the_o singular_a number_n into_o the_o plural_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v the_o scripture_n be_v so_o plain_a etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o corruption_n of_o you_o thereby_o insinuate_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n teach_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v plain_a and_o with_o out_o difficulty_n so_o as_o every_o body_n may_v understand_v they_o which_o indeed_o be_v a_o ordinary_a say_n of_o you_o protestant_n but_o as_o ordinary_o deny_v by_o we_o catholic_n the_o other_o be_v that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v man_n most_o learned_a and_o acute_a as_o scotus_n be_v you_o say_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n such_o as_o scotus_n which_o word_n the_o you_o can_v but_o know_v alter_v the_o sense_n much_o for_o it_o import_v as_o if_o the_o better_a part_n of_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n go_v that_o way_n which_o be_v false_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o cardinal_n word_n and_o meaning_n 23._o you_o tell_v we_o now_o in_o the_o next_o place_n that_o you_o will_v proceed_v from_o scripture_n to_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v say_v mighty_a matter_n out_o of_o scripture_n not_o have_v indeed_o say_v one_o word_n out_o of_o it_o either_o for_o yourself_o or_o against_o us._n well_o let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o the_o father_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n say_v you_o be_v a_o diligent_a reader_n of_o the_o father_n yet_o after_o great_a study_n and_o search_n return_v this_o answer_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v seldom_o mention_v in_o the_o father_n but_o sir_n you_o be_v no_o diligent_a reader_n nor_o faithful_a interpreter_n of_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n for_o his_o word_n as_o you_o yourself_o put_v they_o down_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n be_v thus_o indulgent_a alphon_n a_o castro_n lib._n 8._o verbo_fw-la indulgent_a de_fw-fr transubstantiatione_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la rara_fw-la est_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la scriptoribus_fw-la mentio_fw-la that_o be_v of_o the_o transubstantiation_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v sedome_n mention_v in_o ancient_a writer_n wherein_o he_o say_v true_a and_o you_o most_o false_a for_o though_o of_o transubstantiation_n there_o be_v rare_a mention_n yet_o of_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v most_o frequent_a mention_n as_o bellarmine_n show_v at_o large_a and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o a_o faithless_a interpreter_n 20._o de_fw-fr euchar._n l._n 3._o cap._n 20._o but_o if_o a_o man_n consider_v castro_n his_o meaning_n he_o shall_v find_v you_o to_o have_v abuse_v that_o much_o more_o than_o his_o word_n for_o his_o drift_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o show_v that_o though_o there_o be_v not_o much_o mention_n in_o ancient_a write_v of_o a_o thing_n or_o plain_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n that_o yet_o the_o use_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sufficient_a bring_v for_o a_o example_n this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n whereof_o he_o say_v there_o be_v seldom_o mention_n and_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n whereof_o say_v he_o there_o be_v more_o seldom_o mention_n and_o then_o make_v his_o inference_n upon_o it_o thus_o yet_o who_o but_o a_o haeretique_n will_v deny_v these_o thing_n you_o may_v then_o as_o well_o sir_n humphrey_n and_o better_o too_o in_o castro_n his_o judgement_n have_v deny_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o proceed_v from_o the_o son_n than_o the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v into_o christ_n body_n and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o no_o diligent_a nor_o understand_v reader_n of_o castro_n 24._o after_o he_o come_v one_o yribarne_v a_o disciple_n of_o scotus_n who_o word_n you_o also_o corrupt_a in_o the_o translation_n which_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o tell_v you_o of_o for_o the_o matter_n he_o say_v it_o be_v of_o the_o substance_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o of_o transubstantiation_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o hold_v with_o his_o master_n scotus_n who_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n till_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n for_o which_o you_o yourself_o confess_v he_o be_v censure_v by_o bellarmine_n and_o suarez_n which_o be_v answer_n enough_o for_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o the_o beginning_n we_o do_v not_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o defend_v every_o singular_a opinion_n of_o one_o or_o two_o doctor_n contrary_a to_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o other_o but_o beside_o i_o answer_v that_o scotus_n plain_o aver_v transubstantiation_n and_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n who_o use_v the_o very_a word_n of_o conversion_n which_o be_v all_o one_o with_o transubstantiation_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n respondeo_fw-la quod_fw-la nec_fw-la panis_fw-la manet_fw-la contra_fw-la primam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la nec_fw-la annihilatur_fw-la vel_fw-la resoluitur_fw-la in_o materiam_fw-la primam_fw-la 9.3_o sâ—â—t_fw-la 4._o do_v 1â—_n 9.3_o contra_fw-la secundam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la sed_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la et_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la multum_fw-la express_v videtur_fw-la loqui_fw-la ambrose_n cvius_fw-la undecim_fw-la authoritates_fw-la supra_fw-la adductae_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o plures_fw-la habentur_fw-la de_fw-fr consecrat_fw-mi do_v 2._o i_o answer_v that_o neither_o the_o bread_n remain_v against_o the_o first_o opinion_n nor_o be_v annihilate_v or_o resolve_v in_o to_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la against_o the_o second_o opinion_n but_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n s._n ambrose_n seem_v to_o speak_v very_o express_o out_o of_o who_o 11._o authoritye_n be_v bring_v before_o and_o more_o be_v to_o be_v have_v the_o consecr_n do_v 2._o 1._o s._n amb._n de_fw-fr iis_fw-la qui_fw-la mist_n initiant_fw-la cap._n 9_o &_o the_o sacrament_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 3._o &_o 4._o lib._n 6._o cap._n 1
thus_o scotus_n not_o only_o teach_v transubstantiation_n himself_o but_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o make_v most_o frequent_a mention_n of_o the_o change_n and_o conversion_n of_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o scotus_n must_v have_v hold_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o substance_n thereof_o to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o s._n ambrose_n at_o the_o least_o and_o if_o so_o ancient_a then_o even_o from_o the_o beginning_n his_o meaning_n therefore_o in_o say_v it_o be_v determine_v of_o late_a in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n be_v only_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o bless_a sauiour_n body_n either_o by_o transubstantiation_n that_o be_v by_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n or_o otherwise_o so_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v remain_v the_o church_n have_v determine_v that_o the_o word_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o former_a sense_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v by_o his_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n expound_v of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v she_o do_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n wherewith_o the_o faith_n be_v deliver_v to_o we_o to_o wit_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n 11.9.3_o v._o scot._n in_o 4._o sent._n do_v 11.9.3_o which_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o though_o it_o be_v also_o the_o common_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o beginning_n yet_o it_o may_v well_o be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v be_v de_fw-fr substantia_fw-la fidei_fw-la yribarne_n speak_v because_o it_o have_v not_o be_v so_o plain_o deliver_v nor_o determine_v in_o any_o council_n till_o greg._n the_o 7._o his_o time_n wherein_o it_o be_v first_o define_v against_o berengarius_fw-la and_o that_o but_o by_o a_o particular_a or_o provincial_a roman_a council_n which_o notwithstanding_o the_o article_n in_o itself_o may_v be_v ancient_a though_o not_o so_o express_o deliver_v as_o i_o declare_v more_o ample_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n 25._o you_o have_v little_a help_n then_o sir_n humphrey_n from_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n scotus_n and_o yribarne_v which_o although_o you_o have_v yet_o be_v not_o that_o sufficient_a for_o discharge_v of_o your_o credit_n you_o have_v promise_v we_o acient_a father_n against_o transubstantiation_n which_o these_o three_o be_v not_o for_o one_o of_o they_o to_o wit_n yribarne_n be_v perhaps_o now_o alive_a another_o to_o wit_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n live_v not_o pass_v 100_o year_n ago_o the_o three_o to_o wit_n scotus_n about_o 300._o year_n since_o which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o father_n as_o we_o ordinary_o speak_v of_o they_o wherefore_o bethink_v yourself_o at_o last_o you_o bring_v we_o a_o father_n or_o two_o to_o wit_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n tell_v we_o that_o s._n aug._n be_v so_o whole_o you_o that_o maldonat_n expound_v a_o place_n in_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n say_v that_o he_o be_v persuade_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n and_o see_v that_o caluin_n expound_v the_o same_o place_n as_o he_o do_v he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o mind_n and_o for_o theodoret_n you_o say_v that_o valentia_n observe_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o consecrate_a element_n do_v remain_v in_o their_o proper_a substance_n and_o shape_n and_o figure_n he_o make_v the_o like_a answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o one_o or_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n before_o the_o question_n be_v debate_v do_v think_v less_o considerate_o and_o true_o of_o transubstantiation_n this_o be_v all_o that_o ever_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o much_o to_o your_o shame_n shall_v upon_o examination_n appear_v io._n aug_n er_fw-mi 26._o in_o io._n 26._o for_o s._n augustine_n then_o what_o be_v it_o that_o he_o say_v in_o favour_n of_o you_o in_o expound_v that_o verse_n of_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n where_o our_o saviour_n say_v your_o father_n have_v eat_v manna_n and_o be_v dead_a he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o their_o father_n that_o be_v the_o naughty_a and_o unbelieve_a people_n of_o the_o jew_n die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o in_o their_o soul_n because_o they_o in_o eat_v manna_n do_v consider_v only_o what_o it_o present_v to_o their_o outward_a sense_n and_o not_o what_o it_o represent_v unto_o their_o mind_n by_o faith_n whereas_o the_o good_a man_n among_o they_o as_o moses_n aaron_n phinees_n and_o other_o who_o he_o say_v be_v our_o father_n and_o not_o they_o do_v not_o die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o because_o they_o do_v not_o consider_v it_o only_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n but_o according_a to_o faith_n remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o figure_n and_o a_o figure_n of_o this_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o we_o have_v as_o the_o same_o holy_a father_n say_v express_o in_o the_o same_o place_n hunc_fw-la panem_fw-la significavit_fw-la manna_n manna_n signify_v this_o bread_n and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o judas_n and_o other_o bad_a christian_n which_o receive_v of_o the_o altar_n and_o by_o receive_v die_v because_o they_o receive_v it_o ill_o do_v not_o this_o make_n much_o for_o you_o now_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o see_v how_o whole_o s._n aug._n be_v you_o how_o he_o say_v that_o manna_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o this_o our_o heavenly_a bread_n that_o we_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o altar_n do_v not_o all_o this_o make_v fine_o for_o you_o but_o you_o will_v say_v then_o if_o it_o make_v nothing_o for_o we_o why_o do_v maldonate_fw-it say_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n he_o will_v have_v interpret_v otherwise_o i_o answer_v not_o that_o this_o interpretation_n be_v for_o you_o but_o because_o the_o other_o be_v more_o against_o you_o to_o wit_n thus_o whereas_o s._n augustine_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o they_o that_o do_v eat_v manna_n die_v to_o be_v because_o they_o do_v not_o eat_v it_o with_o faith_n maldonate_fw-it make_v the_o difference_n to_o be_v not_o so_o much_o between_o the_o person_n which_o do_v eat_v as_o between_o the_o food_n which_o they_o do_v eat_v say_v that_o our_o saviour_n make_v this_o a_o special_a prerogative_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n far_o above_o the_o manna_n that_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n give_v life_n to_o they_o that_o eat_v it_o which_o the_o manna_n do_v not_o give_v of_o itself_o and_o indeed_o with_o dew_n reverence_n be_v it_o speak_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n this_o interpretation_n be_v more_o suitable_a to_o the_o text_n and_o discourse_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o that_o whole_a chapter_n which_o be_v to_o compare_v and_o prefer_v that_o true_a bread_n which_o he_o say_v his_o heavenly_a father_n do_v give_v before_o that_o of_o manna_n which_o moses_n give_v their_o father_n it_o be_v more_o also_o against_o the_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n in_o regard_n it_o be_v more_o for_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n which_o they_o labour_v might_n &_o main_a to_o depress_v and_o that_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o caluin_n rather_o follow_v the_o former_a interpretation_n not_o for_o any_o love_n to_o truth_n or_o reverence_v which_o he_o bear_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n 27._o how_o false_a then_o and_o absurd_a be_v that_o scoff_a speech_n of_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o the_o next_o leaf_n of_o your_o book_n where_o you_o say_v ironical_o thus_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o corporal_a presence_n for_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o these_o day_n as_o if_o forsooth_o maldonate_fw-it do_v say_n that_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n concern_v the_o same_o if_o he_o have_v live_v now_o in_o these_o time_n you_o hereby_o insinuate_v as_o if_o s._n augustine_n think_v otherwise_o thereof_o then_o we_o now_o teach_v but_o how_o gross_o false_a this_o be_v may_v appear_v plain_o by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n whereof_o either_o s._n aug._n or_o maldonate_fw-it speak_v but_o how_o they_o that_o eat_v manna_n have_v dye_v and_o they_o that_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v live_v according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n which_o be_v clean_o a_o different_a thing_n wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v line_v s._n aug._n somewhat_o but_o maldonate_fw-it you_o be_v line_v much_o more_o by_o make_v as_o if_o he_o acknowledge_v s._n augustine_n to_o be_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v
word_n transubstantiation_n or_o of_o the_o proof_n thereof_o by_o determine_v the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n and_o this_o it_o may_v be_v be_v it_o wherein_o tonstall_n also_o follow_v he_o if_o they_o mean_v otherwise_o the_o matter_n be_v not_o great_a for_o one_o single_a author_n or_o two_o contradict_v by_o other_o carry_v no_o credit_n with_o we_o in_o matter_n of_o belief_n though_o to_o say_v true_o tonstall_n be_v no_o schooleman_n but_o a_o canonist_n as_o cardinal_n pole_n answer_v he_o very_o well_o by_o letter_n upon_o another_o certain_a occasion_n wherein_o he_o do_v swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o true_a divinity_n as_o i_o have_v see_v by_o the_o letter_n of_o both_o in_o both_o their_o own_o hand_n erasmus_n be_v no_o author_n to_o be_v answer_v nor_o name_v as_o you_o know_v i_o have_v often_o tell_v you_o 33._o for_o the_o waldense_n and_o wickliff_n you_o do_v well_o to_o let_v they_o pass_v but_o the_o very_a name_n of_o they_o show_v you_o have_v a_o good_a 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into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n for_o he_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o change_n in_o this_o sacrament_n be_v no_o other_o than_o as_o the_o natural_a change_n of_o other_o substance_n one_o into_o another_o 3._o durand_n 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 3._o and_o that_o it_o be_v supernatural_a only_o for_o the_o manner_n because_o it_o be_v do_v in_o a_o instant_n and_o without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o natural_a cause_n and_o that_o as_o in_o these_o natural_a change_n of_o the_o element_n one_o into_o another_o or_o other_o mix_v body_n the_o form_n only_o be_v change_v the_o material_a part_n or_o subject_n as_o philosopher_n speak_v remain_v still_o the_o same_o so_o also_o that_o here_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n be_v change_v only_o the_o matter_n or_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n remain_v which_o yet_o he_o think_v to_o be_v sufficient_a to_o verify_v not_o only_o the_o realnes_n of_o christ_n presence_n but_o also_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o to_o that_o purpose_n he_o have_v these_o two_o express_a conclusion_n 1._o 4._o do_v 10._o q._n 1._o dicendum_fw-la say_v he_o quod_fw-la verum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la natum_fw-la de_fw-fr virgin_n &_o passum_fw-la in_o cruse_n est_fw-la realiter_fw-la in_o hoc_fw-la sacramento_n i_o say_v that_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n be_v real_o in_o this_o sacrament_n the_o other_o conclusion_n be_v this_o dicendum_fw-la quod_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vini_fw-la convertuntur_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la 1._o dur._n 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 1._o it_o be_v to_o be_v say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n whereby_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o hold_v a_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n by_o a_o true_a and_o real_a conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n or_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n discover_v also_o therein_o your_o cunning_a and_o delude_a corruption_n whereby_o you_o will_v make_v it_o seem_v to_o your_o reader_n that_o these_o two_o be_v all_o one_o the_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o substance_n of_o bread_n for_o so_o in_o the_o citation_n of_o durand_n sentence_n you_o gloss_n the_o word_n material_a part_n with_o this_o parenthesis_n of_o your_o own_o or_o substance_n whereas_o the_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o substance_n of_o bread_n be_v two_o thing_n for_o the_o matter_n in_o every_o compound_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o substance_n and_o the_o absolute_a denomination_n of_o such_o a_o specifical_a substance_n do_v not_o belong_v even_o to_o the_o form_n itself_o alone_o though_o it_o be_v the_o more_o noble_a and_o more_o essential_a part_n much_o less_o to_o the_o matter_n or_o material_a part_n for_o we_o do_v not_o say_v the_o form_n of_o fire_n or_o water_n be_v fire_n or_o water_n but_o it_o be_v that_o which_o give_v the_o be_v of_o fire_n or_o water_n to_o the_o material_a part_n or_o matter_n which_o of_o itself_o be_v so_o far_o from_o have_v any_o such_o denomination_n as_o some_o philosopher_n do_v scarce_o give_v it_o any_o proper_a be_v of_o it_o own_o or_o even_o the_o common_a name_n of_o ens_fw-la and_o all_o agree_v that_o it_o have_v no_o quality_n no_o active_a power_n nor_o force_n of_o itself_o to_o do_v any_o thing_n as_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a passive_a power_n 35._o wherefore_o though_o the_o matter_n of_o bread_n shall_v remain_v in_o this_o conversion_n or_o change_n yet_o can_v not_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n be_v say_v to_o remain_v so_o long_o as_o the_o form_n be_v change_v no_o more_o than_o all_o the_o bread_n and_o meat_n which_o you_o eat_v may_v be_v say_v to_o remain_v because_o the_o material_a part_n of_o all_o the_o bread_n beef_n mutton_n capon_n pheazant_n and_o whatsoever_o else_o you_o eat_v remain_v unconuert_v which_o as_o it_o be_v a_o great_a absurdity_n in_o any_o man_n to_o affirm_v so_o be_v it_o as_o great_a a_o one_o in_o you_o to_o affirm_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n in_o this_o sacrament_n shall_v not_o be_v convert_v though_o the_o material_a part_n shall_v remain_v for_o as_o the_o only_a change_n of_o the_o form_n in_o all_o natural_a conversion_n be_v sufficient_a to_o verify_v that_o this_o thing_n be_v change_v into_o that_o for_o example_n fire_n into_o water_n so_o may_v it_o be_v in_o this_o for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o manner_n of_o speak_v which_o i_o only_o urge_v in_o durand_n defence_n not_o that_o i_o allow_v his_o doctrine_n for_o this_o be_v his_o very_a reason_n why_o he_o do_v hold_v that_o opinion_n because_o he_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o verify_v not_o only_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o even_a transubstantiation_n also_o which_o very_o word_n he_o use_v in_o another_o place_n for_o make_v answer_n to_o a_o certain_a objection_n draw_v out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o s._n john_n damascen_n wherein_o that_o father_n say_v that_o the_o nature_n of_o bread_n be_v assume_v by_o christ_n as_o if_o by_o that_o manner_n of_o speak_v he_o shall_v seem_v to_o insinuate_v that_o the_o bread_n remain_v the_o same_o in_o nature_n be_v hypostatical_o unite_v to_o christ_n durand_n say_v thus_o 1._o durand_n in_o 4._o do_v 10â—_o q._n 1._o sicut_fw-la in_o baptismate_fw-la aqua_fw-la assumitur_fw-la ut_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la permanens_fw-la sic_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vinum_fw-la assumuntur_fw-la ut_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la tranfiens_fw-la quia_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o per_fw-la consequens_fw-la dicitur_fw-la aliquo_fw-la modo_fw-la uniri_fw-la divinitati_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la assumptionem_fw-la manente_fw-la natura_fw-la panis_fw-la aut_fw-la vini_fw-la sed_fw-la per_fw-la transubstantiationem_fw-la in_o humanitatem_fw-la priùs_fw-la assumptam_fw-la as_o in_o baptism_n water_n be_v assume_v as_o the_o permanent_a matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n so_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v assume_v as_o the_o transient_a or_o pass_a matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n because_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o consequence_n be_v say_v in_o some_o sort_n to_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o divinity_n not_o by_o assumption_n or_o hypostatical_a union_n the_o nature_n of_o the_o bread_n or_o wine_n remain_v but_o by_o transubstantiation_n into_o the_o humanity_n before_o assumpt_v which_o word_n declare_v his_o opinion_n both_o full_o and_o plain_o of_o the_o change_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o this_o sacrament_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n by_o transubstantiation_n 36._o but_o howsoever_o he_o fail_v in_o declare_v this_o transubstantiation_n in_o that_o he_o take_v not_o the_o whole_a substance_n of_o the_o bread_n to_o
general_n council_n as_o be_v the_o parliament_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n to_o which_o he_o have_v promise_v his_o special_a assistance_n but_o this_o be_v by_o the_o way_n 3._o now_o out_o of_o this_o authority_n which_o you_o grant_v to_o those_o ancient_a counsel_n i_o go_v a_o little_a far_o with_o you_o and_o ask_v what_o you_o can_v say_v more_o against_o the_o present_a church_n and_o present_a council_n of_o trent_n then_o against_o the_o church_n of_o that_o time_n &_o counsel_n of_o those_o time_n whatsoever_o you_o can_v say_v of_o the_o church_n now_o that_o it_o may_v err_v may_v as_o well_o be_v say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o that_o tyme._n for_o our_o sauiour_n promise_n for_o the_o perpetuity_n &_o infallibility_n thereof_o be_v as_o much_o for_o one_o time_n as_o another_o for_o our_o time_n now_o as_o for_o those_o then_o what_o you_o say_v now_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n that_o it_o be_v disclaim_v by_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n may_v be_v say_v much_o more_o of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a which_o be_v gain_v say_v both_o by_o more_o &_o other_o manner_n of_o man_n than_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n &_o the_o same_o may_v be_v also_o say_v of_o some_o of_o the_o rest_n &_o so_o forth_o of_o any_o thing_n else_o that_o you_o can_v object_v wherefore_o to_o conclude_v if_o it_o be_v not_o atheism_n to_o say_v then_o that_o by_o question_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o nicene_n decree_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v i_o see_v not_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v atheism_n to_o say_v the_o same_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n but_o you_o think_v it_o be_v atheism_n to_o deny_v the_o scripture_n alone_o to_o be_v sufficient_a for_o that_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o your_o inference_n but_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o all_o catholic_n say_v they_o be_v not_o so_o and_o yet_o they_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n and_o honour_n and_o worship_v he_o as_o 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not_o write_v which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v know_v by_o some_o in_o the_o church_n though_o not_o by_o all_o now_o for_o the_o curse_n which_o you_o be_v content_a shall_v light_v upon_o you_o if_o we_o show_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n to_o have_v be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n for_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ_n be_v not_o too_o forward_o to_o draw_v malediction_n upon_o yourself_o it_o will_v come_v fast_o enough_o to_o your_o cost_n it_o be_v a_o heavy_a thing_n than_o you_o be_v aware_a of_o to_o have_v the_o curse_n of_o a_o mother_n and_o such_o a_o mother_n as_o the_o church_n which_o do_v not_o curse_v without_o cause_n nor_o out_o of_o passion_n for_o as_o the_o scripture_n say_v maledictio_fw-la matris_fw-la eradicat_fw-la fundamenta_fw-la 3.11_o eccle._n 3.11_o the_o malediction_n of_o a_o mother_n do_v root_n out_o the_o foundation_n 4._o have_v thus_o praeface_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o come_v 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sacrement_n not_o confirmation_n because_o it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n not_o pennance_n &_o order_n because_o they_o have_v no_o outward_a element_n not_o matrimony_n because_o it_o be_v before_o christ_n time_n and_o be_v common_a to_o turk_n and_o infidel_n neither_o do_v you_o see_v forsooth_o how_o it_o can_v be_v a_o holy_a thing_n and_o yet_o forbid_v as_o it_o be_v to_o priest_n and_o from_o this_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o if_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o council_n take_v place_n than_o woe_n to_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o who_o you_o name_v these_o follow_v ambrose_n austin_n chrysostome_n bede_n isidore_n alexander_n of_o hales_n cyprian_n durand_n and_o bessarion_n this_o be_v your_o discourse_n 5._o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o your_o formet_fw-la definition_n it_o be_v a_o senseless_a one_o without_o ground_n in_o any_o father_n 16._o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr sâ—tâ—r_n in_o gen_fw-la cap._n 14._o &_o 16._o or_o other_o author_n but_o only_a kemnitius_n and_o caluin_n and_o which_o be_v large_o refute_v and_o prove_v most_o absurd_a by_o bellarmine_n to_o who_o i_o remit_v you_o for_o how_o can_v the_o sacrament_n be_v seal_n or_o give_v we_o aâ—â—urance_n of_o his_o word_n when_o all_o the_o assurance_n we_o have_v of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v his_o word_n this_o be_v idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la beside_o what_o promise_n be_v these_o that_o be_v seal_v or_o if_o they_o be_v seal_n what_o need_v we_o more_o seal_n or_o sacrament_n than_o one_o or_o if_o there_o may_v be_v more_o why_o not_o seven_o as_o well_o as_o two_o again_o how_o do_v we_o see_v the_o promise_n of_o god_n in_o the_o sacrament_n when_o a_o man_n have_v receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n what_o other_o assurance_n have_v he_o that_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v or_o that_o he_o be_v the_o child_n of_o god_n and_o heir_n of_o his_o kingdom_n than_o the_o word_n of_o god_n promise_v that_o virtue_n to_o the_o sacrament_n or_o how_o can_v any_o 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say_v you_o to_o this_o sir_n humphrey_n have_v i_o not_o just_a cause_n here_o to_o tell_v you_o your_o own_o but_o i_o forbear_v you_o 23._o extreme_a unction_n be_v next_o of_o which_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o that_o anoyl_v which_o the_o apostle_n use_v mar._n 6._o be_v not_o extreme_a unction_n &_o that_o caietane_n say_v the_o same_o of_o the_o anoyl_a which_o s._n james_n speak_v of_o 5._o p._n jacq_n 5._o likewise_o of_o hugo_n peter_n lombard_n bonaventure_n &_o altisiodorensis_n you_o say_v that_o they_o hold_v it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n well_o what_o of_o all_o this_o be_v it_o so_o that_o one_o think_v it_o not_o to_o be_v mention_v in_o s._n mark_v another_o not_o in_o s._n james_n other_o not_o to_o have_v be_v institute_v by_o christ_n what_o then_o do_v therefore_o any_o one_o of_o all_o these_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n nay_o do_v they_o not_o all_o say_v and_o maintain_v the_o contrary_n most_o express_o &_o which_o 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as_o both_o in_o one_o and_o other_o he_o do_v err_v for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o proof_n of_o those_o article_n out_o of_o scripture_n which_o be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o matter_n between_o you_o and_o we_o so_o do_v he_o not_o err_v for_o the_o thing_n themselves_o but_o have_v he_o live_v to_o see_v this_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n declare_v and_o this_o verity_n of_o extreme_a unction_n define_v out_o of_o hat_n place_n of_o s._n james_n by_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n 1._o conc._n try_v sess_n 14._o the_o extr_n unct_n c._n 1._o he_o will_v have_v submit_v his_o judgement_n 24._o as_o for_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n you_o say_v that_o soto_n tell_v we_o that_o ordination_n of_o bishop_n be_v not_o crue_o and_o proper_o a_o sacrament_n well_o be_v it_o so_o let_v soto_n say_v so_o do_v he_o deny_v the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n in_o the_o church_n other_o deny_v the_o four_o lesser_a order_n to_o be_v sacrament_n and_o some_o deny_v sub-deaconship_a to_o be_v so_o what_o then_o do_v they_o deny_v the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n in_o the_o church_n to_o be_v proper_o and_o true_o a_o sacrament_n as_o you_o do_v this_o be_v boy_n play_v sir_n humphrey_n there_o be_v a_o question_n among_o catholic_n concern_v the_o episcopal_a power_n and_o character_n whither_o as_o it_o be_v distinct_a from_o priesthood_n it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n of_o itself_o whether_o there_o be_v a_o new_a character_n or_o the_o same_o extend_a and_o the_o like_a some_o say_v i_o some_o say_v no_o what_o be_v this_o to_o you_o it_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o faith_n whereof_o we_o be_v not_o to_o dispute_v with_o you_o but_o keep_v you_o off_o at_o the_o staffe_n end_n or_o rather_o out_o of_o door_n when_o you_o be_v once_o receive_v into_o the_o catholic_a church_n we_o may_v admit_v you_o to_o speak_v of_o a_o school_n point_n not_o till_o then_o 25._o last_o about_o matrimony_n you_o make_v much_o ado_n first_o you_o tell_v we_o 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it_o upon_o that_o word_n sacramentum_fw-la but_o do_v caietan_n deny_v it_o to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n because_o it_o be_v not_o infer_v from_o that_o word_n no_o sure_o what_o then_o do_v you_o bring_v he_o for_o though_o it_o be_v not_o infer_v from_o this_o place_n may_v it_o not_o be_v infer_v from_o another_o or_o if_o neither_o from_o this_o nor_o other_o may_v it_o not_o be_v deduce_v out_o of_o tradition_n three_o you_o say_v that_o for_o a_o conclusion_n our_o own_o canus_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o he_o shall_v be_v account_v a_o fool_n who_o in_o so_o great_a difference_n of_o opinion_n will_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o establish_v a_o certain_a and_o know_a doctrine_n canus_n say_v rem_fw-la aliquam_fw-la certam_fw-la which_o you_o translate_v a_o certain_a and_o know_a doctrine_n which_o you_o may_v as_o well_o and_o as_o easy_o have_v translate_v any_o thing_n certain_a and_o more_o 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riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o 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presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o 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you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o 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have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o of_o those_o thing_n be_v the_o matter_n &_o which_o the_o form_n for_o example_n if_o a_o priest_n in_o baptism_n use_v true_a water_n and_o the_o right_a word_n he_o do_v administer_v a_o true_a sacrament_n though_o he_o shall_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n nay_o though_o he_o shall_v think_v the_o word_n to_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o water_v the_o form_n though_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n the_o other_o place_n of_o canus_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o matrimony_n contract_v without_o a_o priest_n be_v no_o sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o opinion_n the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n and_o of_o that_o kind_n of_o matrimony_n he_o consequent_o deni_v it_o to_o give_v grace_n but_o of_o matrimony_n absolute_o and_o as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o never_o make_v doubt_n see_v before_o his_o word_n 16._o the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
put_v under_o the_o elbow_n of_o all_o age_n it_o be_v a_o great_a danger_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n lest_o perchance_o by_o perverse_a interpretation_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v make_v the_o gospel_n of_o man_n or_o which_o be_v worse_o the_o gospel_n of_o the_o devil_n thus_o far_o saint_n hieromes_n word_n which_o i_o think_v without_o more_o ado_n may_v easy_o answer_v your_o whole_a argument_n for_o in_o they_o this_o holy_a father_n say_v as_o much_o or_o more_o as_o all_o those_o epithet_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o our_o several_a author_n put_v together_o and_o withal_o show_v in_o what_o sense_n they_o be_v to_o be_v take_v so_o as_o if_o you_o will_v say_v any_o more_o of_o this_o matter_n you_o must_v undertake_v the_o quarrel_n against_o saint_n hierome_n you_o may_v do_v well_o also_o to_o note_v the_o very_a first_o word_n martion_n basilides_n &_o caeterae_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la pest_n among_o who_o you_o have_v your_o part_n 6._o now_o for_o the_o 4._o last_o epithet_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o lessius_fw-la though_o they_o seem_v not_o such_o strange_a term_n as_o some_o of_o the_o rest_n yet_o they_o be_v far_o worse_o and_o more_o derogatory_n from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n if_o they_o be_v there_o as_o you_o say_v i_o have_v therefore_o more_o particular_o examine_v he_o whither_o he_o say_v so_o or_o no_o 11._o lesle_n consul_n quae_fw-la sit_fw-la fides_fw-la etc._n etc._n rat_n 11._o and_o whereas_o the_o word_n be_v all_o put_v down_o by_o you_o here_o as_o it_o be_v several_a epithet_n a_o man_n will_v have_v think_v they_o have_v be_v all_o so_o together_o in_o the_o author_n himself_o i_o say_v first_o that_o there_o be_v neither_o any_o such_o word_n lie_v together_o nor_o any_o such_o a_o part_n nor_o any_o one_o word_n of_o those_o that_o i_o can_v find_v in_o that_o whole_a place_n or_o reason_n which_o i_o may_v call_v a_o chapter_n for_o it_o be_v in_o manner_n of_o a_o chapter_n much_o less_o any_o of_o they_o utter_v of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n though_o the_o whole_a chapter_n or_o discourse_n in_o that_o place_n be_v only_o of_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o alone_o and_o of_o itself_o can_v not_o be_v a_o rule_n of_o faith_n which_o he_o prove_v by_o many_o reason_n one_o be_v because_o by_o it_o we_o can_v not_o judge_v of_o the_o scripture_n itself_o and_o so_o the_o very_a rule_n shall_v remain_v uncertain_a which_o ought_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o in_o this_o place_n he_o have_v the_o word_n incerta_fw-la which_o though_o it_o signify_v the_o same_o with_o some_o of_o the_o word_n here_o allege_v yet_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o word_n but_o yet_o here_o lessius_fw-la be_v far_a from_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v uncertain_a in_o itself_o that_o be_v that_o the_o doctrine_n thereof_o be_v doubtful_a but_o only_o that_o our_o rule_n will_v be_v uncertain_a to_o we_o or_o rather_o we_o uncertain_a of_o the_o rule_n because_o we_o can_v know_v the_o scripture_n by_o itself_o for_o example_n that_o this_o book_n be_v true_a scripture_n not_o supposition_n or_o feign_v or_o that_o this_o be_v the_o true_a meaning_n and_o sense_n thereof_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v no_o derogation_n to_o the_o scripture_n lessius_fw-la his_fw-la second_o reason_n be_v that_o that_o can_v be_v a_o certain_a rule_n which_o may_v be_v accommodate_v or_o fit_v to_o contrary_a doctrine_n as_o he_o say_v scripture_n be_v by_o several_a haeretique_n for_o establishment_n of_o quite_o different_a opinion_n his_o 3._o reason_n be_v this_o that_o can_v be_v a_o judge_n that_o can_v clear_o determine_v on_o which_o side_n sentence_n be_v give_v but_o leave_v it_o so_o that_o the_o party_n may_v still_o contend_v one_o affirm_v the_o sentence_n to_o be_v for_o he_o another_z for_o he_o and_o so_o he_o say_v be_v the_o scripture_n lay_v aside_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o church_n and_o father_n whereto_o he_o there_o bring_v also_o a_o example_n of_o two_o man_n who_o go_v to_o law_n will_v admit_v no_o other_o judge_n but_o the_o law_n book_n one_o bring_v one_o law_n clear_o for_o he_o as_o he_o think_v the_o other_o another_o law_n as_o clear_o for_o he_o in_o his_o judgement_n of_o which_o suit_n there_o can_v never_o be_v a_o end_n so_o four_o he_o show_v by_o experience_n that_o this_o rule_n of_o scripture_n be_v not_o sufficient_a for_o end_v of_o controversy_n because_o the_o lutheran_n caluinist_n and_o anabaptist_n be_v altogether_o by_o the_o ear_n yet_o every_o one_o allege_v scripture_n for_o himself_o last_o he_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n itself_o in_o no_o place_n send_v private_a man_n to_o seach_v the_o scripture_n in_o doubtful_a matter_n but_o to_o the_o church_n and_o pastor_n praeside_v therein_o 7._o this_o be_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o lessius_fw-la his_o discourse_n in_o that_o place_n wherein_o i_o will_v glad_o hear_v what_o word_n there_o be_v derogate_a from_o the_o dignity_n of_o holy_a scripture_n or_o any_o way_n condemn_v it_o of_o imperfection_n doubtfulness_n ambiguity_n and_o perplexity_n some_o of_o these_o thing_n may_v be_v true_o say_v and_o in_o a_o good_a sense_n as_o the_o doubtfulness_n or_o ambiguity_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n that_o i_o speak_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n not_o in_o itself_o but_o to_o us-ward_n but_o for_o the_o imperfection_n because_o that_o be_v a_o great_a matter_n with_o you_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o for_o neither_o do_v any_o catholic_a say_v either_o that_o or_o any_o thing_n else_o from_o whence_o it_o may_v be_v gather_v for_o it_o be_v not_o all_o one_o to_o say_v that_o it_o alone_o be_v no_o sufficient_a rule_n and_o to_o say_v it_o be_v imperfect_a for_o though_o you_o imagine_v that_o the_o all_o sufficiency_n or_o contain_v of_o all_o thing_n express_o be_v a_o necessary_a point_n of_o perfection_n you_o be_v deceive_v for_o than_o will_v it_o follow_v that_o the_o gospel_n of_o s._n matthew_n s._n mark_v and_o other_o particular_a book_n shall_v be_v imperfect_a and_o special_o that_o of_o s._n john_n wherein_o he_o say_v express_o that_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v neither_o if_o all_o the_o scripture_n do_v contain_v all_o thing_n in_o that_o manner_n as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o and_o so_o be_v perfect_a in_o your_o sense_n yet_o will_v it_o not_o even_o then_o be_v a_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o itself_o alone_o for_o it_o will_v still_o be_v a_o book_n or_o uriting_n the_o very_a nature_n whereof_o do_v not_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n or_o judge_n of_o controversy_n for_o a_o jugde_v must_v be_v able_a to_o speak_v to_o hear_v answer_v etc._n etc._n whereas_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o book_n or_o writing_n be_v as_o it_o be_v to_o leave_v itself_o to_o be_v read_v and_o expound_v by_o man_n for_o in_o case_n two_o man_n shall_v expound_v it_o different_o the_o nature_n thereof_o do_v not_o require_v that_o it_o shall_v say_v whether_o of_o the_o two_o expound_v it_o right_n the_o perfection_n therefore_o of_o it_o do_v rather_o consist_v in_o the_o truth_n fullness_n of_o wisdom_n profoundness_n majesty_n gravity_n efficacy_n authority_n and_o certainty_n then_o in_o contain_v all_o thing_n express_o as_o you_o require_v &_o so_o long_o as_o it_o have_v those_o perfection_n contain_v withal_o the_o principal_a matter_n pertain_v to_o faith_n and_o teach_v we_o a_o certain_a and_o infallible_a way_n whereby_o we_o may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o rest_n which_o be_v the_o church_n it_o can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v unperfect_a or_o to_o want_v any_o perfection_n dew_n thereunto_o and_o this_o may_v be_v answer_n sufficient_a to_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o section_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a more_o of_o such_o wise_a stuff_n for_o you_o tell_v we_o we_o decline_v scripture_n as_o unperfect_a the_o father_n as_o counterfect_v the_o protestant_n as_o haeretique_n our_o own_o author_n as_o erroneous_a of_o which_o there_o be_v not_o one_o true_a word_n but_o this_o that_o we_o decline_v protestant_n as_o haeretique_n for_o so_o we_o do_v indeed_o but_o for_o the_o rest_n it_o be_v most_o false_a for_o what_o catholic_n do_v ever_o decline_v the_o authority_n of_o our_o school_n divine_n or_o ancient_a father_n much_o less_o call_v the_o one_o erroneous_a or_o the_o other_o counterfect_a some_o one_o may_v have_v stray_v a_o little_a from_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o the_o rest_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a point_n or_o perhaps_o have_v be_v corrupt_v by_o haeretique_n and_o so_o we_o may_v decline_v that_o particular_a author_n in_o that_o particular_a point_n but_o call_v he_o erroneous_a or_o counterfect_a we_o do_v not_o nay_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v
uncertainty_n and_o novelty_n of_o his_o own_o for_o which_o end_n you_o produce_v 8._o several_a place_n six_z whereof_o i_o have_v answer_v before_o and_o there_o also_o show_v that_o some_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n to_o the_o purpose_n other_o most_o gross_o falsify_v the_o 1._o place_n to_o wit_n that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o faith_n because_o he_o can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o minister_n intention_n be_v answer_v and_o prove_v most_o foolish_a chap._n 10._o n._n 7.8_o etc._n etc._n the_o second_o place_n which_o be_v of_o transubstantiation_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n confess_v it_o probable_a that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n be_v answer_v in_o cap._n 9_o §_o 2._o n._n 22._o concern_v which_o i_o only_o note_v that_o in_o this_o place_n you_o have_v a_o new_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellar._n say_v only_o that_o it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o place_n of_o scripture_n so_o plain_a as_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n to_o enforce_v transubstantiation_n because_o some_o learned_a man_n as_o scotus_n do_v doubt_v thereof_o though_o bell._n say_v to_o he_o the_o scripture_n seem_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v it_o here_o you_o make_v he_o say_v it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v it_o which_o be_v clean_o another_o thing_n for_o to_o enforce_v a_o sense_n &_o bear_v a_o sense_n be_v two_o several_a thing_n neither_o do_v scotus_n or_o any_o divine_a else_o ever_o make_v question_n but_o that_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v that_o sense_n but_o whither_o that_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o obvious_a a_o sense_n as_o of_o itself_o to_o enforce_v the_o belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n the_o 3._o 10._o bell._n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 9_o &_o 10._o place_n which_o be_v of_o mass_n without_o communicants_n i_o pass_v over_o before_o as_o impertinent_a to_o the_o purpose_n and_o so_o i_o may_v do_v here_o but_o for_o the_o reader_n be_v full_a satisfaction_n i_o answer_v bellarmine_n say_v that_o mass_n be_v ordain_v both_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o god_n and_o to_o nourish_v the_o people_n with_o spiritual_a food_n in_o which_o respect_n as_o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o offer_v it_o to_o god_n though_o there_o be_v none_o to_o communicate_v but_o very_o lawful_a good_a and_o holy_a so_o be_v it_o more_o perfect_a and_o as_o i_o may_v say_v in_o a_o certain_a sort_n more_o lawful_a where_o be_v some_o to_o communicate_v for_o than_o it_o have_v both_o the_o end_n for_o which_o it_o be_v ordain_v now_o what_o do_v this_o make_v for_o you_o sir_n knight_n or_o against_o we_o as_o also_o that_o which_o follow_v here_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o express_a mention_n among_o the_o ancients_n where_o none_o do_v communicate_v but_o the_o priest_n alone_o but_o only_a conjecture_n for_o no_o more_o be_v there_o any_o express_a mention_n to_o the_o contrary_a that_o no_o priest_n may_v nor_o ever_o do_v say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n which_o unless_o you_o can_v show_v in_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o neither_o if_o you_o can_v show_v it_o shall_v you_o therefore_o say_v any_o thing_n for_o your_o own_o sacrificelesse_a communion_n which_o have_v no_o affinity_n with_o our_o mass_n the_o essence_n whereof_o consist_v in_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o communion_n in_o be_v a_o participation_n of_o the_o same_o sacrifice_n your_o protestant_a communion_n be_v but_o a_o bit_n of_o unblessed_a bread_n and_o no_o participation_n of_o sacrifice_n for_o you_o absolute_o deny_v all_o manner_n of_o visible_a sacrifice_n in_o the_o church_n now_o for_o bellarmine_n conjecture_n it_o be_v true_a he_o give_v they_o no_o other_o name_n but_o of_o conjecture_n but_o they_o be_v such_o as_o may_v with_o great_a probability_n persuade_v any_o indifferent_a man_n to_o conclude_v that_o many_o time_n and_o i_o may_v say_v much_o more_o frequent_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n then_o with_o they_o and_o the_o lest_o of_o they_o be_v such_o that_o if_o you_o have_v but_o half_a such_o a_o one_o for_o any_o point_n you_o hold_v you_o will_v vaunt_v it_o and_o triumph_n as_o if_o you_o have_v a_o unanswearable_a demonstration_n but_o be_v it_o so_o or_o be_v it_o not_o of_o some_o of_o the_o people_n communicate_v whensoever_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n what_o make_v it_o to_o our_o purpose_n which_o be_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n or_o not_o they_o do_v not_o will_v you_o say_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o ask_v what_o then_o may_v not_o we_o now_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n then_o must_v every_o body_n communicate_v now_o therefore_o every_o day_n all_o give_v their_o good_n away_o and_o live_v in_o common_a must_v every_o body_n do_v so_o now_o i_o believe_v sir_n knight_n you_o will_v not_o like_v that_o so_o well_o if_o the_o people_n devotion_n grow_v so_o cold_a as_o not_o to_o participate_v sacramental_o of_o the_o sacrifice_n must_v the_o priest_n grow_v so_o cold_a also_o as_o not_o even_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o his_o own_o and_o the_o people_n sin_n this_o be_v no_o good_a council_n sir_n humphrey_n almighty_a god_n reprehend_v it_o by_o his_o prophet_n 24.2_o isay_n 24.2_o that_o the_o priest_n be_v grow_v like_o the_o people_n sicut_fw-la populus_fw-la sic_fw-la sacerdos_n we_o can_v be_v glad_a sir_n if_o you_o can_v help_v to_o mend_v the_o people_n but_o not_o mar_v the_o priest_n which_o you_o will_v do_v enkindle_v their_o devotion_n not_o destroy_v their_o faith_n nor_o take_v away_o the_o holy_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n which_o afford_v many_o benefit_n even_o to_o not_o communicant_n though_o not_o so_o much_o as_o to_o they_o that_o do_v communicate_v sacramental_o but_o what_o do_v i_o in_o this_o discourse_n here_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o show_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o patronize_v you_o nor_o weaken_v us._n the_o two_o place_n follow_v touch_v prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n and_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v also_o answer_v before_o &_o be_v only_o of_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o argument_n with_o this_o the_o 6._o place_n which_o be_v as_o if_o bell._n teach_v your_o two_o sacrament_n be_v answer_v in_o two_o place_n upon_o several_a occasion_n fine_n chap._n 9_o §._o 4_o fine_a and_z ch_z 10._o fine_n and_o in_o both_o be_v show_v your_o notorious_a corruption_n both_o of_o word_n &_o sense_n 2._o now_o for_o your_o two_o last_o testimony_n which_o you_o bring_v not_o before_o i_o shall_v here_o examine_v one_o you_o tell_v we_o be_v touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n of_o which_o say_v you_o it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n 6._o bell_n lib._n 3._o the_o â—ustif_a cap._n 6._o that_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o faith_n &_o repentance_n be_v requisite_a that_o be_v a_o lively_a faith_n and_o earnest_a repentance_n and_o that_o without_o they_o no_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o you_o propound_v the_o matter_n very_o imperfect_o and_o ignorant_o in_o say_v thus_o touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n etc._n etc._n not_o tell_v we_o the_o particular_a controversy_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v this_o say_n of_o bellarmine_n there_o be_v more_o controversy_n than_o one_o between_o you_o and_o we_o as_o whither_o any_o thing_n be_v needful_a to_o justification_n beside_o faith_n or_o what_o faith_n it_o be_v that_o justifi_v and_o how_o and_o whither_o good_a work_n be_v necessary_a or_o no_o and_o how_o they_o concur_v for_o there_o be_v all_o these_o thing_n and_o more_o in_o question_n between_o you_o and_o us._n and_o a_o man_n will_v have_v think_v by_o your_o general_a title_n of_o faith_n and_o work_v it_o have_v be_v in_o proof_n of_o some_o of_o these_o that_o you_o have_v bring_v bellarm._n but_o it_o be_v for_o no_o such_o matter_n bellarmine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v handle_v a_o clean_a different_a question_n to_o wit_n whether_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o own_o grace_n and_o justice_n that_o be_v whether_o he_o be_v in_o the_o grace_n and_o favour_n of_o almighty_a god_n or_o not_o and_o for_o proof_n that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a thereof_o he_o bring_v diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n which_o imply_v a_o condition_n on_o our_o part_n in_o our_o justification_n as_o if_o we_o turn_v to_o god_n if_o we_o seek_v he_o in_o our_o whole_a hart_n if_o we_o do_v penance_n if_o we_o believe_v if_o we_o do_v his_o will_n etc._n etc._n god_n will_v turn_v to_o we_o forgive_v our_o sin_n and_o the_o like_a which_o condition_n say_v
the_o word_n the_o presence_n of_o christ_n depend_v upon_o their_o efficacy_n which_o they_o have_v by_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n as_o they_o be_v the_o form_n of_o this_o sacrament_n which_o may_v be_v separate_v from_o the_o signification_n though_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la it_o be_v not_o 1._o caiet_fw-mi in_o come_v 3._o p._n q._n 75._o a._n 1._o and_o so_o cajetan_v though_o he_o think_v not_o the_o bare_a signification_n of_o the_o word_n without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o presence_n of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n yet_o he_o doubt_v not_o to_o affirm_v with_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n allege_v the_o very_a word_n thereof_o quod_fw-la ipsorum_fw-la verborum_fw-la virtute_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o substantia_fw-la vini_fw-la in_o sanguinem_fw-la convertuntur_fw-la that_o by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o very_a word_n the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o wine_n into_o his_o blood_n so_o as_o caietan_n be_v nothing_o for_o you_o but_o very_o much_o against_o you_o 14._o but_o yet_o you_o go_v on_o confident_o tell_v we_o that_o you_o will_v produce_v cardinal_n bishop_n and_o schoolman_n to_o testify_v that_o there_o be_v no_o word_n in_o scripture_n to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n second_o that_o those_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v not_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o sacrament_n three_o that_o the_o ancient_a father_n do_v not_o believe_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n to_o be_v convert_v into_o christ_n real_a flesh_n four_o that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o believe_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la above_o 1000_o year_n after_o christ_n which_o four_o point_n how_o well_o you_o prove_v i_o must_v now_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n first_o note_v by_o the_o way_n that_o though_o you_o set_v they_o down_o several_o as_o if_o you_o mean_v to_o prove_v they_o in_o order_n one_o after_o another_o bring_v one_o cardinal_n one_o bishop_n and_o one_o schooleman_n at_o least_o for_o every_o one_o yet_o you_o neither_o observe_v order_n nor_o so_o allege_v author_n as_o shall_v appear_v though_o for_o the_o first_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n you_o need_v not_o many_o author_n if_o you_o add_v the_o word_n express_o thus_o that_o there_o be_v no_o word_n in_o scripture_n to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n express_o which_o word_n if_o you_o put_v in_o your_o proposition_n may_v pass_v for_o true_a if_o not_o it_o be_v false_a and_o without_o author_n for_o though_o all_o catholic_n save_v only_a caietan_n agree_v that_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n of_o themselves_o prove_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n presence_n yet_o all_o do_v not_o so_o agree_v that_o of_o themselves_o they_o prove_v transubstantiation_n for_o some_o think_v they_o may_v be_v verify_v though_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n shall_v remain_v together_o with_o christ_n body_n yet_o all_o agree_v that_o out_o of_o the_o word_n as_o they_o be_v understand_v by_o the_o church_n transubstantiation_n be_v also_o prove_v you_o may_v therefore_o have_v spare_v gabriel_n authority_n which_o you_o begin_v with_o in_o these_o word_n how_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o express_v in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o bible_n which_o i_o will_v have_v spare_v also_o but_o because_o i_o mean_v to_o lay_v open_a your_o falsehood_n in_o allege_v the_o same_o by_o half_n 40._o cab._n lect_n 40._o for_o thus_o he_o say_v notandum_fw-la quod_fw-la quamuis_fw-la express_v tradatur_fw-la in_o scriptura_fw-la quod_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la veraciter_fw-la sub_fw-la speciebus_fw-la panis_fw-la continetur_fw-la &_o a_o fidelibus_fw-la sumitur_fw-la tamen_fw-la quomodo_fw-la sit_fw-la ibi_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la a_o per_fw-la conversionem_fw-la alicuius_fw-la in_o ipsum_fw-la a_o sine_fw-la conversione_n incipiat_fw-la esse_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la cum_fw-la pane_fw-la manentibus_fw-la substantia_fw-la &_o accidentibus_fw-la panis_fw-la non_fw-la invenitur_fw-la it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o though_o it_o be_v express_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v true_o contain_v under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o receive_v by_o the_o faithful_a yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o express_v how_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v there_o whither_o by_o conversion_n of_o any_o thing_n into_o it_o or_o whither_o it_o begin_v to_o be_v there_o without_o conversion_n or_o turn_n the_o substance_n and_o accident_n of_o bread_n remain_v in_o which_o say_v of_o gabriels_n as_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o former_a part_n because_o it_o make_v clear_o against_o you_o so_o you_o may_v also_o have_v leave_v out_o the_o late_a as_o make_v nothing_o against_o we_o as_o be_v evident_a of_o itself_o without_o far_a declaration_n 15._o your_o next_o author_n be_v cardinal_n de_fw-fr aliaco_n who_o you_o tell_v we_o think_v it_o possible_a that_o the_o bread_n may_v remain_v with_o christ_n body_n and_o that_o it_o be_v more_o easy_a and_o more_o reasonable_a to_o conceive_v whereto_o i_o answer_v what_o then_o what_o be_v this_o to_o your_o purpose_n if_o you_o be_v a_o lutheran_n you_o may_v have_v a_o little_a colour_n but_o see_v you_o be_v a_o caluinist_n or_o protestant_n or_o some_o such_o i_o know_v not_o what_o it_o make_v nothing_o at_o all_o for_o you_o not_o even_o in_o show_n but_o be_v you_o caluinist_n protestant_n lutheran_n or_o what_o you_o will_v it_o make_v not_o for_o you_o suppose_v that_o may_v be_v possible_a more_o easy_a etc._n etc._n what_o be_v that_o to_o our_o purpose_n that_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o faith_n for_o faith_n do_v not_o stand_v teach_v metaphysical_a possibilitye_n or_o impossibilitye_n what_o may_v be_v or_o not_o be_v but_o what_o be_v or_o be_v not_o and_o which_o be_v chief_o to_o be_v consider_v though_o this_o author_n think_v that_o way_n more_o possible_a and_o more_o easy_a to_o be_v conceive_v according_a to_o humane_a capacity_n yet_o even_o herein_o he_o prefer_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n before_o his_o own_o as_o his_o very_a word_n by_o you_o cite_v do_v testify_v for_o he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v more_o easy_a and_o more_o reasonable_a to_o conceive_v if_o it_o can_v accord_v which_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n but_o what_o be_v this_o authority_n to_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n which_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n do_v it_o prove_v do_v it_o say_v that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n or_o that_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v not_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o so_o of_o the_o rest_n not_o a_o word_n of_o all_o these_o by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a you_o only_o look_v to_o say_v somewhat_o but_o care_v not_o what_o 16._o after_o this_o cardinal_n you_o bring_v bishop_n fisher_n who_o you_o may_v better_o have_v call_v cardinal_n fisher_n than_o some_o other_o who_o in_o this_o book_n you_o call_v cardinal_n for_o he_o be_v create_v cardinal_n indeed_o though_o he_o have_v the_o happiness_n to_o receive_v the_o laurel_n and_o purple_a robe_n of_o martyrdom_n in_o heaven_n before_o he_o can_v come_v to_o receive_v the_o honour_n of_o his_o cap_n and_o scarlet_a robe_n of_o his_o cardinalship_n here_o on_o earth_n but_o you_o say_v out_o of_o he_o that_o there_o be_v no_o word_n write_v whereby_o it_o may_v be_v prove_v that_o in_o the_o mass_n be_v make_v the_o very_a presence_n of_o the_o body_n &_o blood_n of_o christ_n you_o cite_v he_o in_o english_a and_o though_o in_o the_o margin_n you_o put_v the_o latin_a a_o little_a more_o true_o whereas_o you_o say_v in_o the_o english_a in_o the_o mass_n the_o latin_a be_v in_o nostra_fw-la missa_fw-la in_o our_o mass_n wherein_o you_o shall_v find_v some_o difference_n in_o this_o place_n yet_o you_o put_v the_o whole_a sentence_n so_o lame_o that_o a_o man_n will_v think_v the_o bishop_n by_o your_o cite_v he_o to_o be_v quite_o of_o another_o mind_n than_o he_o be_v for_o you_o will_v make_v one_o think_v he_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o real_a presence_n can_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n 4._o io._n roffen_n count_v captiu_fw-la babylo_n c._n 4._o whereas_o the_o 4._o chapter_n of_o the_o book_n here_o cite_v be_v whole_o employ_v in_o proof_n thereof_o against_o luther_n out_o of_o the_o very_a word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la this_o be_v my_o body_n by_o which_o he_o destroy_v lutheran_n companation_n and_o consequent_o establish_v our_o transubstantiation_n and_o teach_v plain_o both_o there_o and_o throughout_o this_o whole_a book_n that_o christ_n himself_o do_v change_v the_o bread_n into_o his_o own_o body_n and_o this_o out_o of_o the_o very_a word_n of_o scripture_n but_o in_o this_o 10._o chapter_n which_o you_o cite_v he_o prove_v that_o the_o true_a sense_n of_o the_o