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sense_n father_n son_n substance_n 1,728 5 9.0864 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A55108 A plea for the late accurate and excellent Mr. Baxter and those that speak of the sufferings of Christ as he does. In answer to Mr. Lobb's insinuated charge of Socinianism against 'em, in his late appeal to the Bishop of Worcester, and Dr. Edwards. With a preface directed to persons of all persuasions, to call 'em from frivolous and over-eager contentions about words, on all sides. Lobb, Stephen, d. 1699.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1699 (1699) Wing P2521; ESTC R217330 67,965 145

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in_o our_o place_n yet_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o we_o do_v not_o or_o can_v hold_v that_o he_o suffer_v in_o our_o stead_n otherwise_o than_o as_o it_o signify_v for_o our_o good_a only_a but_o what_o we_o do_v and_o consistent_o with_o ourselves_o can_v maintain_v his_o suffer_v in_o our_o stead_n in_o such_o a_o sense_n in_o which_o the_o socinian_o ever_o deny_v it_o shall_v through_o divine_a assistance_n be_v make_v appear_v in_o the_o second_o part_n of_o this_o discourse_n chap._n ii_o that_o christ_n do_v not_o suffer_v in_o the_o person_n of_o sinner_n but_o in_o the_o person_n of_o a_o mediator_n §_o 1._o this_o also_o he_o will_v have_v to_o be_v account_v among_o our_o error_n as_o appear_v not_o only_o from_o several_a passage_n in_o his_o appeal_n but_o also_o from_o his_o object_v this_o among_o other_o fault_n against_o the_o three_o paper_n in_o his_o report_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v so_o word_v as_o to_o be_v calculate_v to_o their_o meridian_n who_o hold_v that_o christ_n suffer_v only_o in_o the_o person_n of_o a_o mediator_n not_o in_o the_o person_n of_o sinner_n §_o 2._o that_o christ_n be_v a_o mediator_n and_o do_v suffer_v as_o or_o in_o the_o person_n of_o a_o mediator_n i_o will_v suppose_v be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o controversy_n betwixt_o the_o accuser_n and_o we_o all_o that_o can_v then_o remain_v as_o questionable_a be_v whether_o he_o suffer_v as_o or_o in_o the_o person_n of_o a_o sinner_n which_o be_v affirm_v shall_v also_o have_v be_v prove_v by_o this_o accuser_n we_o be_v only_a doubter_n or_o denier_n in_o this_o point_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v but_o only_o to_o hear_v his_o proof_n no_o rule_n i_o have_v yet_o meet_v with_o oblige_v we_o to_o any_o thing_n more_o §_o 3._o yet_o since_o he_o have_v not_o as_o might_n have_v be_v expect_v do_v his_o part_n or_o perhaps_o can_v not_o do_v it_o we_o shall_v more_o than_o do_v our_o own_o that_o it_o may_v appear_v what_o it_o be_v we_o do_v herein_o deny_v and_o upon_o what_o reason_n we_o do_v it_o and_o §_o 4._o in_o order_n to_o a_o better_a understanding_n the_o state_n of_o the_o case_n it_o shall_v be_v consider_v that_o the_o phrase_n itself_o be_v what_o the_o scripture_n be_v utter_o a_o stranger_n to_o we_o no_o where_o read_v in_o those_o sacred_a oracle_n either_o of_o christ_n sustain_n or_o suffer_v in_o the_o person_n of_o sinner_n and_o it_o be_v but_o reasonable_a for_o we_o when_o article_n of_o faith_n be_v propose_v to_o nay_o press_v upon_o we_o to_o hesitate_n about_o they_o can_n we_o be_v blame_v if_o we_o also_o deny_v renounce_v they_o unless_o scripture-evidence_n be_v produce_v for_o '_o they_o if_o their_o sense_n of_o this_o or_o any_o other_o phrase_n appear_v in_o the_o scripture_n we_o shall_v ready_o own_v that_o sense_n but_o the_o phrase_n itself_o can_v be_v think_v necessary_a while_o it_o be_v not_o there_o §_o 5._o but_o beside_o this_o be_v not_o only_o a_o humane_a phrase_n but_o a_o very_a obscure_a and_o ambiguous_a one_o and_o it_o be_v hard_a to_o conceive_v among_o the_o many_o sense_n it_o be_v capable_a of_o any_o one_o sense_n in_o which_o it_o may_v be_v tolerable_o apply_v to_o the_o present_a case_n we_o shall_v brief_o mention_v some_o of_o the_o more_o remarkable_a notation_n of_o the_o word_n person_n and_o pass_v by_o several_a other_o i_o shall_v only_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o vast_o differ_v sense_n in_o which_o the_o word_n be_v use_v by_o metaphysician_n and_o by_o civilian_n §_o 6._o the_o word_n person_n as_o make_v use_n of_o by_o metaphysician_n be_v design_v to_o express_v a_o individual_a complete_a intelligent_a substance_n thus_o every_o man_n and_o every_o angel_n be_v distinct_a person_n and_o christian_a philosopher_n transfer_v this_o account_n of_o the_o word_n person_n to_o christ_n as_o god-man_n yea_o and_o to_o the_o godhead_n itself_o when_o they_o use_v that_o term_n with_o reference_n to_o the_o sacred_a three_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n but_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v that_o christ_n suffer_v in_o the_o person_n of_o sinner_n for_o that_o in_o order_n to_o his_o suffering_n in_o any_o person_n one_o or_o other_o it_o be_v first_o necessary_a he_o shall_v assume_v that_o person_n now_o however_o he_o do_v assume_v the_o nature_n of_o man_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o it_o be_v not_o possible_a that_o he_o shall_v in_o this_o sense_n assume_v the_o person_n of_o any_o sinner_n sure_o this_o accuser_n himself_o will_v not_o dare_v to_o assert_v that_o christ_n be_v the_o individual_a substance_n of_o peter_n judas_n etc._n etc._n if_o not_o he_o be_v not_o their_o person_n and_o if_o not_o their_o person_n than_o he_o do_v not_o suffer_v as_o such_o §_o 7._o or_o if_o they_o shall_v refer_v we_o to_o civilian_n for_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n it_o be_v among_o they_o a_o very_o perplex_v and_o un-agreed_n term._n sometime_o they_o do_v only_o in_o general_n contradistinguish_v person_n to_o thing_n and_o make_v the_o word_n person_n to_o be_v equivalent_a to_o the_o word_n man._n thus_o zouch_n res_fw-la sunt_fw-la de_fw-la quibus_fw-la homines_fw-la agunt_fw-la personae_fw-la quae_fw-la agunt_fw-la in_o se_fw-la i._n e._n viri_fw-la &_o 8._o mulieres_fw-la qui_fw-la hominis_fw-la appellatione_fw-la continentur_fw-la yet_o according_a to_o other_o this_o term_n of_o person_n be_v not_o so_o extensive_a as_o that_o of_o man._n so_o personae_fw-la calvin_n tell_v we_o personae_fw-la appellatio_fw-la cum_fw-la hominis_fw-la appellatione_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la eadem_fw-la haec_fw-la enim_fw-la quam_fw-la illa_fw-la est_fw-la generalior_fw-la omnis_fw-la persona_fw-la est_fw-la homo_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la vicissim_fw-la ind_n persona_fw-la definitur_fw-la homo_fw-la qui_fw-la caput_fw-la habet_fw-la civil_a by_o caput_fw-la civil_a habens_fw-la he_o do_v not_o as_o some_o apprehend_v mean_v one_o that_o have_v a_o civil_a head_n or_o a_o superior_a in_o the_o state_n then_o indeed_o as_o they_o infer_v a_o king_n will_v be_v no_o person_n but_o what_o he_o and_o other_o civilian_n intend_v by_o it_o be_v one_o that_o have_v the_o liberty_n of_o a_o freeborn_a subject_n in_o the_o state_n and_o so_o be_v design_v only_o to_o exclude_v prisoner_n of_o war_n bondslave_n etc._n etc._n from_o be_v person_n thus_o caput_fw-la he_o explain_v himself_o at_o large_a qui_fw-la in_o eum_fw-la scil_n liberorum_fw-la ordinem_fw-la cooptatur_fw-la caput_fw-la jam_fw-la habere_fw-la dicitur_fw-la unde_fw-la servus_n qui_fw-la pro_fw-la lihertate_fw-la pretium_fw-la persolvit_fw-la pretium_fw-la pro_fw-la capite_fw-la solvere_fw-la dicitur_fw-la apud_fw-la plautum_fw-la &_o j._n consultos_fw-la frequentissime_fw-la i._n e._n ut_fw-la liceat_fw-la illi_fw-la caput_fw-la in_o ordinem_fw-la libertorum_fw-la habere_fw-la qui_fw-la si_fw-la postea_fw-la libertate_fw-la mulctetur_fw-la capite_fw-la minutus_fw-la dicetur_fw-la and_o thus_o also_o the_o learned_a pufendorf_n explain_v it_o persona_fw-la apud_fw-la j._n consultos_fw-la praeprimis_fw-la 19_o illa_fw-la dicitur_fw-la quae_fw-la caput_fw-la i._n e._n libertatem_fw-la personalem_fw-la habet_fw-la but_o this_o distinction_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v with_o reference_n to_o the_o suffering_n of_o christ_n in_o die_v he_o have_v a_o respect_n not_o only_o to_o jew_n but_o to_o gentile_n and_o among_o they_o not_o only_o to_o the_o learned_a greek_n but_o also_o to_o the_o more_o uncultivated_a barbarian_n and_o scythian_n not_o only_o to_o such_o as_o be_v free_a among_o they_o but_o also_o to_o the_o very_a bond_n slave_n rom._n 10._o 12._o 1_o cor._n 12._o 13._o gal._n 3._o 28._o col._n 3._o 11._o §_o 8._o again_o sometime_o they_o do_v by_o the_o term_n person_n intimate_a not_o absolute_o the_o man_n himself_o but_o the_o man_n respective_o consider_v with_o reference_n to_o the_o quality_n state_n or_o condition_n in_o which_o he_o stand_v so_o calvin_n ubi_fw-la supra_fw-la persona_fw-la tam_fw-la hominem_fw-la quam_fw-la qualitatem_fw-la hominis_fw-la &_o conditionem_fw-la significat_fw-la 4._o and_o more_o full_o pufendorf_n personae_fw-la morales_fw-la sunt_fw-la homines_fw-la considerati_fw-la cum_fw-la statu_fw-la svo_fw-la aut_fw-la munere_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la in_o vita_fw-la communi_fw-la versantur_fw-la now_o will_v this_o accuser_n say_v that_o in_o this_o sense_n christ_n do_v sustain_v and_o suffer_v in_o the_o person_n of_o sinner_n be_v he_o every_o one_o of_o those_o very_a man_n for_o who_o he_o die_v do_v he_o possess_v the_o place_n state_n condition_n quality_n of_o every_o individual_a sinner_n §_o 9_o but_o among_o political_a person_n to_o omit_v other_o sub-division_n there_o be_v one_o special_a kind_n which_o they_o call_v representative_a person_n and_o this_o i_o suppose_v may_v be_v intend_v when_o it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n suffer_v in_o the_o person_n of_o sinner_n under_o this_o rank_a the_o civilian_n do_v common_o reckon_v ambassador_n plenipotentiaries_n vice-roys_n etc._n etc._n as_o act_v in_o
the_o world_n but_o whether_o their_o leisure_n from_o great_a affair_n will_v permit_v they_o or_o indeed_o whether_o they_o shall_v account_v it_o worth_a their_o leisure_n to_o interpose_v in_o this_o matter_n or_o not_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o charge_n be_v such_o that_o how_o groundless_o soever_o it_o be_v advance_v it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v silent_a under_o it_o that_o which_o be_v apprehend_v more_o especial_o to_o require_v that_o this_o invidious_a reflection_n be_v take_v notice_n of_o be_v that_o this_o way_n the_o reputation_n of_o that_o most_o excellent_a person_n be_v undermine_v and_o his_o most_o valuable_a write_n as_o well_o as_o the_o ministry_n of_o those_o that_o in_o this_o matter_n be_v of_o his_o judgement_n be_v so_o far_o as_o in_o this_o accuser_n lie_v blast_v and_o render_v odious_a and_o useless_a and_o such_o as_o either_o have_v want_v opportunity_n to_o look_v into_o the_o socinian_n write_n or_o have_v not_o judgement_n sufficient_a to_o distinguish_v betwixt_o appearance_n and_o reality_n may_v be_v so_o far_o impose_v upon_o by_o the_o confidence_n of_o this_o accuser_n as_o to_o believe_v the_o charge_n advance_v against_o we_o for_o their_o sake_n therefore_o and_o our_o own_o to_o prevent_v their_o gild_n as_o well_o as_o to_o preserve_v our_o own_o reputation_n and_o usefulness_n and_o if_o possible_a also_o to_o undeceive_v this_o accuser_n and_o his_o brethren_n we_o think_v it_o fit_a and_o necessary_a that_o it_o be_v make_v appear_v there_o be_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n whereupon_o to_o censure_v mr._n baxter_n or_o those_o who_o he_o call_v his_o follower_n as_o socinian_o in_o that_o great_a and_o important_a article_n of_o christ_n satisfaction_n for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o we_o shall_v with_o reference_n to_o the_o suspect_a passage_n first_o manifest_v their_o agreeableness_n to_o truth_n and_o then_o show_v the_o no-advantage_n hereby_o give_v to_o the_o socinian_n cause_n now_o the_o passage_n this_o accuser_n and_o his_o brethren_n be_v so_o much_o afraid_a of_o and_o grieve_v at_o as_o he_o pretend_v we_o shall_v set_v together_o that_o we_o may_v see_v what_o they_o will_v in_o the_o whole_a amount_v to_o and_o they_o be_v these_o 1._o christi_fw-la perpessiones_fw-la quoad_fw-la rationem_fw-la reifuere_fw-la malum_fw-la naturale_fw-la perpessum_fw-la ex_fw-la occasione_n &_o causalitate_fw-la remota_fw-la peccatorum_fw-la generis_fw-la humani_fw-la he_o shall_v have_v add_v &_o proxime_fw-la ex_fw-la sponsionis_fw-la &_o consensus_fw-la proprii_fw-la obligatione_fw-la bax._n method_n theol._n pars_fw-la iii_o cap._n 1._o determ_fw-la 5._o p._n 38._o this_o will_v be_v the_o better_o understand_v if_o it_o be_v observe_v that_o the_o question_v he_o have_v before_o he_o be_v whether_o the_o suffer_a of_o christ_n be_v proper_o and_o formal_o a_o punishment_n for_o the_o determination_n whereof_o he_o do_v define_v punishment_n proper_o so_o call_v a_o natural_a evil_n that_o be_v a_o evil_a of_o suffer_v inflict_v for_o or_o on_o account_n of_o a_o moral_a evil_n i._n e._n the_o evil_a of_o sin_n and_o beside_o other_o distinction_n which_o he_o have_v premise_v he_o distinguish_v betwixt_o the_o suffer_a of_o the_o delinquent_n himself_o for_o his_o own_o sin_n in_o which_o case_n his_o sin_n be_v direct_o immediate_o and_o per_fw-la se_fw-la the_o cause_n of_o his_o suffer_v and_o this_o he_o tell_v we_o be_v punishment_n in_o the_o primary_n and_o most_o famous_a sense_n of_o it_o and_o the_o suffer_v of_o another_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o delinquent_n fault_n in_o which_o case_n though_o there_o be_v a_o suffer_v for_o sin_n yet_o that_o sin_n be_v more_o indirect_o mediate_o and_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la the_o cause_n of_o the_o suffer_v and_o therefore_o though_o it_o be_v punishment_n yet_o it_o be_v only_o in_o a_o secondary_a and_o analogical_a sense_n to_o be_v so_o call_v and_o this_o secondary_a sort_n of_o punishment_n be_v twofold_a it_o be_v either_o natural_a or_o voluntary_a the_o natural_a punishment_n for_o another_o sin_n he_o call_v that_o which_o follow_v upon_o the_o nearness_n of_o relation_n in_o nature_n betwixt_o the_o sufferer_n and_o the_o sinner_n as_o when_o child_n suffer_v for_o their_o parent_n be_v sin_n the_o voluntary_a be_v when_o there_o be_v a_o free_a consent_n and_o undertaking_a to_o suffer_v on_o the_o behalf_n and_o in_o the_o stead_n of_o the_o sinner_n though_o there_o be_v no_o previous_a relation_n to_o the_o sinner_n from_o whence_o he_o shall_v natural_o be_v oblige_v to_o suffer_v for_o he_o now_o he_o do_v and_o sure_o with_o very_o just_a reason_n conclude_v the_o suffering_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v of_o this_o last_o kind_n for_o that_o they_o be_v not_o the_o suffering_n of_o the_o delinquent_n himself_o and_o so_o not_o punishment_n in_o the_o primary_n and_o most_o famous_a sense_n of_o the_o word_n they_o can_v therefore_o only_o be_v punishment_n in_o a_o secondary_a and_o less_o proper_a sense_n and_o since_o even_o in_o his_o assume_v our_o nature_n christ_n be_v conceive_v miraculous_o by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o do_v not_o descend_v from_o adam_n by_o ordinary_a generation_n therefore_o in_o that_o secondary_a sense_n his_o punishment_n can_v not_o be_v the_o natural_a effect_n of_o adam_n sin_n it_o remain_v then_o that_o christ_n only_o be_v punish_v as_o a_o voluntary_a undertaker_n and_o the_o analogical_a punishment_n he_o undergo_v be_v inflict_v on_o he_o as_o a_o sponsor_n in_o our_o stead_n our_o sin_n be_v the_o ground_n and_o reason_n of_o his_o suffering_n yea_o the_o meritorious_a cause_n but_o not_o so_o near_o and_o immediate_o as_o they_o will_v have_v be_v of_o our_o own_o suffering_n for_o that_o his_o sponsion_n and_o consent_n do_v necessary_o intervene_v so_o that_o they_o may_v not_o unapt_o be_v call_v punishment_n though_o not_o so_o full_o and_o proper_o as_o the_o suffering_n of_o the_o sinner_n themselves_o may_v have_v be_v so_o call_v to_o this_o sense_n do_v that_o excellent_a person_n speak_v and_o this_o be_v little_a else_o than_o a_o translation_n of_o his_o latin_a word_n as_o will_v appear_v to_o any_o one_o that_o be_v capable_a and_o willing_a to_o consult_v the_o place_n refer_v to_o and_o this_o be_v the_o substance_n of_o what_o he_o afterward_o quote_v from_o he_o i_o shall_v need_v to_o be_v at_o no_o far_a trouble_n than_o only_o to_o recite_v the_o word_n 2._o and_o thus_o he_o go_v on_o peccata_fw-la nostra_fw-la fuere_fw-la causa_fw-la remota_fw-la passionis_fw-la christi_fw-la and_o again_o culpa_fw-la nostra_fw-la non_fw-la erat_fw-la causa_fw-la proxima_fw-la ejus_fw-la passionis_fw-la sed_fw-la tantum_fw-la remota_fw-la &_o occasio_fw-la once_o more_o at_o sensu_fw-la improprio_fw-la i._n e._n not_o in_o that_o most_o proper_a and_o primary_n sense_n in_o which_o they_o be_v impute_v to_o the_o sinner_n himself_o as_o may_v be_v collect_v from_o the_o immediate_o foregoing_a word_n per_fw-la meram_fw-la connotationem_fw-la dici_fw-la potest_fw-la peccata_fw-la nostro_fw-la christo_fw-la imputata_fw-la fuisse_fw-la viz._n quoad_fw-la reatum_fw-la paenae_fw-la &_o culpae_fw-la ut_fw-la ad_fw-la paenam_fw-la at_o non_fw-la in_o se_fw-la idque_fw-la tantum_fw-la remote_a non_fw-la quasi_fw-la peccata_fw-la nostra_fw-la paenas_fw-la christi_fw-la merita_fw-la essent_fw-la sed_fw-la quia_fw-la nisi_fw-la nobis_fw-la paenas_fw-la merita_fw-la essent_fw-la ille_fw-la paenas_fw-la non_fw-la dedisset_fw-la et_fw-la quia_fw-la paena_fw-la nulla_fw-la est_fw-la formaliter_fw-la nisi_fw-la propter_fw-la peccatum_fw-la ideo_fw-la quatenus_fw-la christi_fw-la passiones_fw-la fuere_fw-la paenae_fw-la analogice_fw-la fic_z dictae_fw-la peccatum_fw-la non_fw-la suum_fw-la sed_fw-la nostrum_fw-la non_fw-la causam_fw-la meritoriam_fw-la sed_fw-la quasi_fw-la procausam_fw-la meritoriam_fw-la &_o occasionem_fw-la connotabant_fw-la ibid._n determ_fw-la 7._o p._n 40_o 41._o 3._o he_o quote_v he_o again_o in_o english_a thus_o man_n sin_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o christ_n suffering_n as_o be_v loco_fw-la causae_fw-la meritoriae_fw-la for_o proper_o there_o be_v no_o meritorious_a cause_n the_o law_n be_v curse_n or_o obligation_n be_v another_o occasion_n as_o be_v miseriae_fw-la causa_fw-la removenda_fw-la christ_n voluntary_a sponsion_n or_o consent_n be_v the_o moral_a oblige_a cause_n universal_a redempt_n p._n 7._o again_o we_o must_v distinguish_v betwixt_o suffer_v exit_fw-la obligatione_fw-la legis_fw-la &_o merito_fw-la peccati_fw-la as_o we_o shall_v have_v do_v if_o we_o have_v suffer_v ourselves_o and_o suffer_v ex_fw-la obligatione_fw-la solius_fw-la sponsionis_fw-la propriae_fw-la as_o christ_n do_v without_o any_o merit_n or_o legal_a obligation_n his_o own_o sponsion_n be_v instead_o of_o both_o and_o our_o sin_n and_o obligation_n be_v but_o the_o occasion_n or_o loco_fw-la causae_fw-la meritoriae_fw-la ibid._n p._n 25._o again_o the_o law_n as_o bind_v we_o be_v the_o great_a occasion_n of_o christ_n death_n and_o loco_fw-la causae_fw-la obligatoriae_fw-la but_o not_o the_o obligatory_a cause_n itself_o christ_n own_a sponsion_n and_o his_o father_n will_n be_v the_o only_a proper_a