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A16337 A short and priuate discourse betweene Mr. Bolton and one M.S. concerning vsury. Published by E.B. by Mr. Boltons owne coppy Bolton, Robert, 1572-1631.; Bagshaw, Edward, d. 1662. 1637 (1637) STC 3249; ESTC S106474 41,120 88

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against Iulian Heare them also Saint Basil in Psal. 14. An ignoras inquit quòd major tibi peccatorum exurgat acervus quam sit accessus opum quem ex usuris venaris Knowest Thou not that a greater heape of sinnes growes upon Thee then is the accession of riches which thou hunts after by Usury Saint Gregory Hom 4. in Ecclesiast Aiatis inquit dixit Deus Crescite multiplicamini Auri autem faetus nempe faenus ex quonam consistit matrimonio c. Hic est ille partus quem parturit qui dem avaritia parit autem iniquitas obstetricatur inhumanitas This is that young One speaking of usury with which covetousnesse travailes Iniquity brings forth and Inhumanity playes the Mid-wife Saint Ambrose an other of those Worthy Men hath detested and discoursed against usury very excellently and eloquently in a whole Booke de Tobia in the 9. Chap. whereof Hee compares the Divell and an Usurer together Chap. 14. Silicitum est cur vocabulum refugis cur velamen obteris Si illicitum est cur incrementum requiris If usury be lawfull why doest Thou decline the name Why puts Thou a vaile over it If it be unlawfull why receivest Thou any increase Saint Hierom In Psal. 54. In lege usurae accipi prohibentur Vsura est plus accipere quam dare Taking of usury is forbidden in the Law And usury is to take more then was given And in Ezek. Chap. 18. page 538. Repetens ab his quibus tribuit meaning in the case of usury ampliùs quam dederat vivere non poterit sed in suo sanguine morietur Chrysost. Hom. 5. in Mat. pag. 38. Nihil praesenti usurâ turpius nihilque crudelius Si quidem hujusmodi faenerator negotiatur discrimina uberiores ut putat quaestus de alterius infaelicitate consequitur atque insuper quasi pietatis mercedem reposcit velut metuens ne immisericors fore videatur cum profectò pretextu miserendi atque opem ferendi majorem misero foveam crudelitatis effoderit speciejuvandi atterens inopem ac manum porrigendo deijciens quasi inportum ex tempestate suscipiens sed improviso turbine in multò magis crudele naufragium velut inter scopulos ac latentia saxa demergens I have given you a taste of those Worthy Men how worthily They cut the throate of your usury I might quote many more of the Fathers to the same purpose but that it is not my purpose but onely to let you seee how you have wounded your selfe at unawares by writing those passages out of Saint Austin I meane in this respect As Iulian the Pelagian became Saint Austins and their Opposite in Point of Pelagianisme So you proove Opposite to Austin and the same Worthies in Point of Usury But you have as you suppose some late Divines on your side And I will also suppose so for the present And oppose against them three hundred and eighteene the learnedest and greatest Divines in the whole Christian world congregated at Nicaea in the more pure and primitive times In the yeare of our Lord 325. or thereabouts condemning usury from those words Psal. 15. Qui pecuniam suam non dedit ad usuram Hee that putteth not His money out to usury Can. 18. I could name them every One unto you and so make a farre larger Catalogue then yours For here are 300. odds Yours being but 18. Nay in a word for any thing I can learne or know I may oppose in this Point all other Councells that ever mentioned it Fathers all the Learned of former Ages the whole Current of the Christian World from CHRIST unto our age None of which have stood for Usury for the space of fifteene hundred yeares after CHRIST But these you will say are Humane authorities And so are yours Yet mark the odds I oppose to your few supposed Patrons of Usury of late times the generall judgement of the Church for this fifteene hundred yeares For the covetousnesse of these times hath made a controversie which in former ages was never doubted of Nay I imagine you know who hath made it good Authority of all sorts divine and humane Ecclesiasticall and prophane naturall and morall Of all Ages old new midling Of all Churches Primitive Romane Reformed Of all Common-Weales Jewish Christian Heathenish Of all Lawes Forraine and Domesticall Nay M. S. Will you heare the words of one of your own Men whom you muster up in your Catalogue as One of yours I meane B. Iewell These are his words upon 1 Thess. Chap. 3. ver 6. pag. 80. But what speake I saith He of the ancient Fathers of the Church having produced many against Vsury There was never any Religion nor sect nor state nor degree nor Profession of men but they have disliked it Usury sc. Philosophers Greekes Latines Lawyers Divines Catholicks Hereticks All tongues and Nations have ever thought an Usurer as dangerous as a Theefe The very sence of nature prooveth it to be so If the stones could speake they would say as much These are the very words of One whom you pretend to be on your side But let us come to the Scriptures And dare you indeed M. S. stand to the triall of that pure and Heavenly Touchstone Consider then these places Exod. 12. 25. Levit. 25. 35 36. Deut. 23. 19. Psal. 15. 5. Ezek. 18. 13 17. And 22. 12. Pro. 28. 8. Luke 6. 35. Now M. S. against these many Places condemning Vsury bring you so much as One to allow it You are not able to bring One rightly understood Here is then as great odds in Divine as Humane Authorities What will you doe now Fall to your shifts In the Scriptures say you 1. Mention is made of the poore expressely and therefore you conceive and conclude that if you forbeare the Poore you may be an Usurer to the Rich. And for this purpose Usurers urge Exod. 22. 25. Levit. 25. 35. 1. May you not M. S. as well reason thus from ver 22. of the same Chap. Thou shalt not afflict any Widow or Fatherlesse Childe Here mention is onely made of the Widow and Fatherlesse therefore if these bee forborne Thou maist afflict a married woman or a childe that hath a Father May you not by the like reason proove it no sin to rob a rich Man because Prov. 22. 22. It is said Rob not the poore because He is poore Then all robbery is not forbidden but onely that towards the poore may you say and therefore we may rob the rich because He is rich and may well spare it You may clearely see the poorenesse and weakenesse of your collection by these three absurd paralell inconsequences Moses forbiddeth to oppresse an hired servant that is poore and needy Deut. 24. 14. therefore if He be rich and wealthy you may oppresse Him This is Usurers Logique See Psal. 82. 3 4. 2. In other places of Scripture as Psal. 15. 5. Ezek. 18. 13 17. And Chap. 22.
the Oke and sucks out the juice and sap that it cannot prosper So just doth the Vsurer pleasure the Borrower See before pag. 3. And pag. 1. 3. The kindnesse and good Thou doest to the Borrower in this case is like that which Thou shouldest doe to a man in a burning Ague in giving Him cold water to drinke for the present it refreshes Him but after it doubles His paine and increaseth His danger Whereupon saith Saint Ambrose The offering of the money is flattering and pleasant but the exacting of Vsury is most cruell and unmercifull 4. Heare Saint Chrysostome in His time For the same cunning and cavilling did also colour Vsurers covetousnesse then Noli m●hi dicere quaeso gaudet gratiam habet quod sibi soenore pecuniam colloces id enim crudelitate tuâ coactus fecit Doe not tell me saith He that He is glad and gives Theethankes because thou wilt let Him have money to use For He is constrained by thy cruelty to doe so But what say you to the case of Orphans What shall become of Fatherlesse Children Widowes and distracted men of their wits Suppose all these for their maintenance have a stock of money left them They being not able to imploy it How shall they be maintained but by the use of it For if they spend of their stock what will become of them when their stock is gone 1. I might well bee excused from answering this Objection at this time because our common Vsurers against whom I now purposely deale and dispute are not Babes and mad men except it bee spiritually but many times of great understanding and wisedome in worldly matters 2. If Vsury be sinnefull in it selfe it is evill in all though in some more in some lesse If it bee forbidden in GODS Booke as it is in many places directly and clearely what circumstances good meanings Motives End or any thing can make it lawfull Except the royall Prerogative of the mighty LORD of Heaven and Earth who is the Lawgiver and whose holy Will is the Rule of Justice interpose and declare it selfe otherwise as in the present point in the ●ase of strangers for a time Though therefore the reliefe of the fatherlesse and widowes be good yet must it not be done by Vsury For that is to do evill that good may ensue which is condemned by the HOLY GHOST Romanes 3. 8. 3. The Usurer should rather aske what shall become of those Orphanes and Widowes which have not stocke for whom not withstanding God doth graciously provide though they use no unlawfull meanes 4. There were Widowes Fatherles and men distracted amongst the Jewes in that excellent Common-wealth constituted by GOD Himselfe and yet no allowance of Vsury unto them If Almighty GOD in Wisedome had thought it meete to have tolerated Vsury in these persons He might as well have mentioned the same as He doth the toleration of lending to strangers But it seemes to have beene so farre from GODS meaning that in the very same place where He maketh a Law for the safe-guard of Orphanes and Widowes presently and immediately upon it is annexed the Law against Vsury Shall these then who are so well provided for by a speciall Law of GOD bee transgressors of the very next Law unto it 5. Widow-hood and Fatherlesnesse in respect of the former state of having Husband and Parents are a state of Humiliation for the outward condition of this life But by this unhappy Trade of Vsury they are made a state of exaltation For whereas in the daies of Husband and Parents their stocke by honest and lawfull negotiation was subject unto manifold perills and by perill unto great and daily losses The practise of Vsury now doth provide by sufficient Bonds against all these with great increase of gaine bonds so sufficient and absolute that except GOD dissolve them beyond all expectation they are strongly secured against any disaster or danger So against GODS Ordinance and intention labour to turne a crosse into Blessing 6. The LORD hath vouchsafed to Orphanes and Widowes a singular priviledge of many very gracious promises peculiarly made unto them let them therefore or their friends for them depend upon the gracious providence and promises of GOD in the use of lawfull meanes let them imploy their goods in some honest Trade or negotiation wherein they have as good cause to expect a blessing from GOD as any other Or let them deale by partnership or by annuities for their lives or purchase Lands or Rents for ever Or let some other honest course be taken which wise men can easily devise if they list and were as hearty for GODS glory as earthly gaine And let not children bee tainted and maintained with the contagious and insinuating sinne of Usury Exc. Well then saith the Worldling suppose for instance the stocke bee imployed in Partnership or any other course of Traffique in which the Orphanes stand to the hazard of the principall I would know in such a case what would become of the Fatherlesse Children if the principall perish were they not quite undone Rep. I answer who are wee that wee should exempt Orphanes from being subject to GODS providence and ordering Doe not all mens goods in the world depend upon GODS disposing and blessing Doe not all men stand to His providence and must be subject thereunto Shall Orphanes then onely be exempted that GOD shall have nothing to doe with their stocks but blesse He or curse He they must be sure to be provided for to have still so much certaine yearely and to have their principall secured This ought not to be Especially sith they are honoured with so many excellent particular promises of GODS providence and singular protection But some learned men allow it c. And so M. S. I come to survay your Hold for Usury the weakest of many rotten Ones You have marshal'd together eighteene 1. Suppose all these were on your side I oppose against them many moe very Worthy and Learned men in this Age the testimonies of all the learned in former Ages both Christian and Heathen the censures of Councels the authority of the Word of GOD. See before page 1 2. Nay heare your owne Man as you pretend Worthy Iewell But what speake I saith He of the ancient Fathers of the Church having produced many against Usury There was never sect nor state nor degree nor profession of men but they have disliked it Philosophers Greekes Latines Lawyers Divines Catholicks Hereticks All tongues and nations have ever thought an Usurer as dangerous as a Theefe The very sense of nature proveth it to be so if the stones could speake they would say as much The generall Current and consent of the Church for above this fifteene hundred yeares without Opposition hath condemned it what a weake hold then is your Handfull M. S. 2. Divines pretended for Usury deale with it as the Apothecary doth with poyson working and tempering