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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A12701 An ansvvere to Master Iohn De Albines, notable discourse against heresies (as his frendes call his booke) compiled by Thomas Spark pastor of Blechley in the county of Buck Sparke, Thomas, 1548-1616.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Marques de la vraye église catholique. English. 1591 (1591) STC 23019; ESTC S117703 494,957 544

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and_o think_v it_o needful_a ourselves_o before_o we_o take_v upon_o we_o to_o interpret_v they_o to_o ask_v wisdom_n of_o god_n and_o that_o hearty_o and_o faithful_o that_o we_o may_v wise_o true_o and_o sincere_o open_v they_o unto_o the_o people_n we_o know_v and_o say_v with_o basil_n 2._o libro_fw-la contra_fw-la eunomium_n that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v not_o in_o the_o sound_n and_o word_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o in_o the_o sense_n and_o with_o hierom_n upon_o the_o first_o chapter_n of_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o galathian_o we_o be_v ready_a always_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o gospel_n lie_v not_o in_o the_o word_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o in_o the_o sense_n not_o in_o the_o outward_a show_n but_o in_o theinward_a marrow_n not_o in_o the_o leaf_n of_o speech_n but_o in_o the_o root_n of_o reason_n now_o this_o sound_a sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n we_o take_v only_o to_o be_v that_o which_o the_o author_n thereof_o thereby_o intend_v for_o the_o better_a 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more_o follow_v namely_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o devil_n &_o heretic_n and_o other_o as_o you_o write_v have_v by_o wrest_v &_o wrong_a interpret_n the_o scripture_n always_o labour_v to_o countenance_v their_o heresy_n this_o we_o grant_v to_o be_v most_o true_a you_o see_v &_o yet_o thereby_o you_o have_v gain_v nothing_o against_o us._n for_o we_o stand_v still_o upon_o this_o &_o may_v do_v for_o all_o this_o that_o if_o we_o have_v the_o scripture_n indeed_o in_o true_a sense_n on_o our_o side_n thereby_o we_o and_o our_o do_n be_v so_o sufficient_o justify_v as_o that_o we_o need_v no_o further_a justification_n these_o five_o chapter_n as_o they_o tend_v to_o the_o proof_n of_o one_o and_o selfsame_o matter_n so_o have_v i_o think_v good_a joint_o to_o frame_v a_o answer_n to_o they_o together_o be_v it_o grant_v therefore_o unto_o you_o that_o all_o these_o heretic_n as_o you_o have_v write_v and_o report_v of_o they_o allege_v the_o scripture_n and_o consequent_o as_o hereupon_o you_o infer_v cap._n 26._o that_o one_o may_v see_v how_o the_o ill_a dispose_v may_v allege_v scripture_n in_o a_o corrupt_a sense_n to_o maintain_v such_o heresy_n as_o these_o to_o what_o end_n have_v you_o do_v all_o this_o it_o appear_v chap._n 22._o you_o enter_v first_o into_o this_o discourse_n to_o prove_v that_o though_o we_o have_v the_o scripture_n on_o our_o side_n which_o we_o allege_v yet_o we_o be_v not_o thereby_o sufficient_o defend_v and_o now_o hereupon_o only_o you_o will_v infer_v &_o conclude_v that_o a_o man_n may_v see_v how_o the_o ill_a dispose_v may_v allege_v scripture_n in_o a_o corrupt_a sense_n to_o confirm_v such_o heresy_n as_o these_o which_o we_o grant_v to_o be_v most_o evident_a and_o yet_o it_o remain_v undisprove_v that_o if_o we_o have_v the_o scripture_n which_o we_o allege_v on_o our_o side_n we_o be_v thereby_o sufficient_o defend_v for_o none_o of_o these_o nor_o any_o that_o allege_v scripture_n as_o they_o do_v though_o they_o 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for_o the_o relief_n of_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n wherefore_o to_o go_v on_o now_o we_o be_v come_v to_o examine_v origens_n testimony_n which_o be_v two_o only_o here_o cite_v for_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a by_o albine_n namely_o his_o 12_o homily_n upon_o jeremy_n and_o his_o 8._o book_n upon_o the_o roman_n cap._n 11._o in_o which_o place_n let_v they_o be_v read_v never_o so_o often_o there_o shall_v not_o be_v find_v so_o much_o as_o mention_v of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a indeed_o in_o both_o of_o they_o there_o be_v some_o mention_n of_o a_o purge_a fire_n but_o as_o i_o have_v show_v before_o in_o the_o first_o entrance_n into_o this_o point_n when_o i_o repeat_v the_o word_n of_o the_o author_n in_o these_o place_n none_o at_o all_o of_o the_o popish_a purgatory_n for_o in_o the_o first_o he_o speak_v of_o that_o fire_n that_o must_v consume_v our_o hay_n wood_n and_o stubble_n which_o he_o tell_v we_o be_v god_n who_o be_v a_o consume_a fire_n of_o such_o thing_n and_o 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that_o saint_n francis_n and_o other_o also_o have_v do_v and_o now_o can_v do_v the_o like_a or_o at_o least_o that_o he_o and_o his_o fellow_n have_v be_v fowe_o deceive_v that_o before_o now_o make_v it_o a_o distinct_a place_n from_o hell_n in_o earnest_n let_v they_o take_v heed_n who_o they_o have_v persuade_v hitherto_o &_o do_v hereafter_o that_o they_o go_v but_o thither_o and_o that_o they_o so_o they_o will_v take_v order_n they_o may_v be_v well_o pay_v for_o it_o will_v help_v they_o to_o ease_v there_o and_o out_o in_o the_o end_n that_o they_o find_v not_o indeed_o the_o popish_a purgatory_n they_o dream_v of_o in_o the_o end_n to_o prove_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o fire_n
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that_o book_n he_o say_v plain_o quod_fw-la tum_fw-la praeconiaverunt_fw-la postea_fw-la per_fw-la dei_fw-la voluntatem_fw-la nobis_fw-la tradiderunt_fw-la in_o scripture_n columnam_fw-la &_o fundamentum_fw-la fidei_fw-la futurum_fw-la that_o be_v that_o which_o first_o they_o preach_v after_o by_o the_o will_n of_o god_n they_o deliver_v unto_o we_o in_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o faith_n and_o in_o the_o three_o chapter_n of_o that_o book_n have_v before_o speak_v of_o the_o apostolic_a tradition_n he_o after_o show_v what_o he_o mean_v thereby_o namely_o this_o that_o god_n the_o maker_n of_o heaven_n and_o earth_n &c_n &c_n as_o he_o be_v describe_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n the_o apostle_n have_v teach_v to_o be_v the_o father_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n contrary_a to_o the_o fantastical_a frantic_a dream_n of_o valentinian_n so_o plain_o show_v that_o they_o that_o will_v even_o by_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o may_v learn_v 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it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o all_o the_o place_n &_o reason_n quote_v by_o he_o either_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n or_o father_n to_o bind_v we_o to_o yield_v obedience_n to_o their_o church_n ordinance_n their_o prelate_n commandment_n &_o to_o the_o point_v warrant_v only_o by_o their_o tradition_n their_o church_n have_v another_o foundation_n of_o her_o faith_n then_o the_o word_n write_v namely_o always_o their_o pope_n will_n as_o it_o have_v &_o the_o commandment_n of_o their_o prelate_n &_o tradition_n be_v not_o only_o beside_o but_o also_o often_o most_o gross_o contrary_a to_o that_o word_n of_o god_n write_v as_o i_o shall_v show_v in_o sundry_a place_n o_z i_o have_v do_v with_o albine_n in_o irenaeus_n judgement_n be_v but_o so_o many_o abusing_n and_o corrupting_n of_o their_o holy_a &_o good_a meaning_n and_o yet_o thus_o have_v to_o no_o purpose_n bestow_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o idle_a pain_n as_o one_o that_o have_v say_v enough_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o 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and_o torment_n of_o hell_n itself_o that_o origen_n speak_v of_o but_o to_o haste_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o point_n chrysostome_n and_o augustine_n be_v yet_o behind_o it_o may_v be_v these_o speak_v something_o more_o direct_o to_o the_o purpose_n it_o can_v be_v deny_v they_o do_v but_o the_o more_o a_o great_a deal_n be_v their_o weakness_n and_o fault_n and_o nevertheless_o you_o even_o where_o it_o be_v chrysostome_n be_v allege_v only_o in_o his_o three_o homily_n upon_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o philippian_n where_o speak_v as_o it_o be_v evident_a by_o his_o word_n of_o such_o as_o die_v in_o their_o sin_n and_o infidelity_n so_o that_o they_o go_v to_o hell_n where_o say_v he_o peccata_fw-la exuere_fw-la non_fw-la licet_fw-la that_o be_v they_o can_v put_v of_o their_o sin_n he_o exhort_v their_o friend_n alive_a to_o mourn_v bitter_o for_o such_o because_o they_o be_v with_o the_o damn_a all_o the_o day_n of_o their_o life_n that_o so_o the_o better_a they_o may_v take_v 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this_o comfort_n and_o leave_v altogether_o destitute_a of_o all_o help_n but_o of_o one_o that_o be_v that_o alm_n may_v be_v give_v in_o their_o name_n whereby_o some_o refresh_a might_n come_v unto_o they_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o ambrose_n do_v well_o in_o pray_v for_o gratian_n who_o yet_o die_v unbaptise_v yet_o this_o you_o will_v say_v be_v somewhat_o that_o he_o father_v the_o commemoration_n of_o the_o dead_a that_o he_o speak_v of_o upon_o a_o decree_n of_o the_o apostle_n i_o grant_v it_o be_v somewhat_o &_o more_o than_o you_o have_v hear_v his_o ancient_n tertullian_n have_v do_v or_o any_o other_o before_o he_o &_o yet_o be_v it_o somewhat_o or_o more_o you_o be_v neither_o somewhat_o nor_o any_o more_o near_o your_o purpose_n than_o you_o be_v in_o the_o beginning_n but_o to_o conclude_v with_o he_o though_o he_o &_o 20_o more_o such_o as_o he_o shall_v never_o so_o often_o tell_v we_o that_o it_o be_v decree_v by_o the_o apostle_n that_o in_o the_o celebration_n 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therefore_o he_o be_v not_o to_o think_v much_o if_o we_o refuse_v to_o credit_v he_o in_o this_o which_o he_o can_v never_o prove_v to_o be_v as_o he_o say_v by_o any_o sound_a proof_n either_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n or_o else_o where_o thus_o therefore_o to_o dismiss_v he_o let_v we_o see_v last_o of_o all_o what_o be_v bring_v we_o out_o of_o augustine_n to_o this_o purpose_n out_o of_o he_o three_o place_n be_v cite_v the_o first_o be_v out_o of_o his_o 2_o book_n de_fw-fr genesi_fw-la against_o the_o manichee_n cap._n 20._o where_o there_o be_v not_o a_o word_n speak_v of_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a only_o there_o say_v he_o speak_v of_o such_o as_o have_v not_o while_o they_o be_v here_o well_o till_v their_o field_n but_o let_v it_o be_v overgrowen_v or_o oppress_v with_o thorn_n that_o such_o after_o this_o life_n shall_v either_o have_v the_o purge_a fire_n or_o eternal_a pain_n by_o which_o purge_v fire_n what_o he_o understand_v it_o be_v hard_o to_o guess_v he_o 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