father_n be_v no_o protestant_n but_o mere_o papist_n wherein_o we_o may_v glory_v as_o reverence_v their_o sanctity_n admire_v their_o learning_n and_o honour_v their_o antiquity_n neither_o be_v it_o true_a as_o protestant_n use_v to_o suggest_v that_o catholic_n distrust_v their_o cause_n if_o it_o be_v commit_v to_o trial_n by_o scripture_n do_v therefore_o fly_v from_o it_o to_o father_n and_o doctor_n for_o as_o for_o all_o such_o point_n as_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n to_o scripture_n we_o appeal_v it_o be_v that_o we_o urge_v her_o literal_a sense_n and_o word_n have_v make_v we_o papist_n we_o therefore_o only_o recurre_v to_o father_n either_o for_o the_o better_a finding-out_a and_o understand_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o sundry_a difficult_a passage_n and_o text_n of_o scripture_n or_o for_o the_o true_a discern_v of_o several_a ecclesiastical_a tradition_n and_o doctrine_n teach_v and_o practise_v by_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o no_o where_n mention_v in_o the_o written_a word_n and_o as_o this_o be_v not_o most_o impious_o to_o oppose_v father_n to_o scripture_n or_o to_o fly_v from_o scripture_n to_o father_n so_o be_v it_o in_o these_o respect_v the_o most_o assure_a mean_n to_o give_v we_o satisfaction_n for_o as_o none_o ever_o leave_v more_o livelie_a monument_n of_o rare_a wit_n &_o profund_a knowledge_n or_o more_o shine_a testimony_n of_o great_a purity_n and_o sanctity_n in_o life_n or_o more_o astonish_a wonder_n and_o miracle_n in_o confirmation_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o doctrine_n than_o these_o ancient_a father_n so_o be_v there_o none_o ever_o furnish_v with_o so_o good_a mean_v either_o of_o know_v the_o apostle_n or_o the_o apostle_n preach_v as_o the_o apostle_n first_o heir_n and_o next_o successor_n the_o sweet_a fruit_n of_o their_o labour_n our_o holy_a father_n but_o to_o prosecute_v yet_o further_o this_o so_o lunatic_a proceed_n of_o protestant_n against_o these_o grave_a sage_n of_o christ_n catholic_n church_n what_o more_o indignus_fw-fr or_o injurious_a can_v be_v utter_v then_o that_o these_o so_o great_a doctor_n all_o of_o they_o unite_a member_n of_o one_o catholic_n church_n shall_v be_v at_o deadly_a war_n and_o dissension_n among_o themselves_o in_o important_a article_n of_o faith_n &_o religion_n yea_o that_o one_o and_o the_o same_o doctor_n shall_v contradict_v himself_o &_o that_o in_o matter_n fundamental_a &_o of_o great_a consequence_n and_o yet_o caluin_n blush_v not_o to_o say_v 7._o say_v in_o inst_z in_o praef._n ad_fw-la reg._n galliae_fw-la p._n 7._o those_o holy_a man_n be_v ignorant_a of_o many_o thing_n they_o often_o fight_v among_o themselves_o and_o sometime_o with_o themselves_o beza_n likewise_o speak_v of_o the_o ancient_a father_n in_o theodosius_n his_o time_n say_v 7._o say_v in_o inst_z in_o praef._n ad_fw-la reg._n galliae_fw-la p._n 7._o i_o confess_v as_o then_o there_o be_v most_o learned_a bishop_n 4._o bishop_n in_o now_o test_n praef._n ad_fw-la princip_n condens_fw-la p._n 4._o but_o this_o also_o i_o affirm_v etc._n etc._n that_o scarce_o any_o of_o they_o can_v be_v name_v who_o dissent_v not_o both_o from_o himself_o and_o other_o in_o many_o thing_n and_o those_o of_o great_a moment_n a_o thing_n incredible_a in_o such_o learned_a bishop_n if_o caluin_n and_o beza_n be_v not_o the_o broacher_n who_o seldom_o tell_v truth_n 419._o truth_n ep._n ad_fw-la rom._n c._n 14._o p._n 419._o melancthon_n also_o thus_o write_v of_o the_o father_n see_v they_o sometime_o speak_v contrary_a thing_n they_o must_v pardon_v we_o if_o we_o reprehend_v certain_a thing_n in_o they_o and_o 463._o and_o devotis_fw-la p._n 463._o though_o the_o father_n be_v wise_a and_o learned_a and_o see_v many_o thing_n say_v peter_n martyr_n yet_o they_o be_v man_n and_o can_v err_v and_o that_o chief_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o the_o father_n do_v not_o always_o agree_v among_o themselves_o and_o sometime_o one_o dissent_v from_o himself_o those_o father_n say_v 224._o say_v retractive_a from_o romish_a religion_n p._n 223._o 224._o d._n beard_n that_o live_v in_o the_o next_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o the_o first_o speak_v of_o this_o matter_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n very_o various_o and_o doubtful_o as_o if_o it_o be_v a_o doctrine_n which_o they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o say_v to_o and_o be_v not_o full_o resolve_v in_o three_o of_o those_o father_n which_o he_o allege_v though_o in_o some_o place_n they_o seem_v to_o allow_v that_o custom_n which_o be_v then_o bring_v into_o the_o church_n yet_o in_o other_o place_n they_o disallow_v the_o same_o yea_o and_o they_o be_v disapprove_v also_o of_o other_o that_o live_v in_o the_o same_o age._n thus_o true_a athanasius_n condemn_v invocation_n of_o saint_n etc._n etc._n &_o false_a athanasius_n allow_v it_o etc._n etc._n basil_n approve_v it_o but_o nazianzene_n doubt_v of_o it_o and_o epiphanius_n etc._n etc._n utter_o condemn_v it_o chrysostome_n in_o some_o place_n seem_v to_o allow_v of_o it_o in_o other_o he_o speak_v against_o it_o and_o so_o do_v augustine_n and_o the_o rest_n the_o like_a contradition_n d._n whitaker_n instance_v in_o s._n basil_n say_v 670._o say_v de_fw-fr sacra_fw-la scrip._n p._n 670._o basil_n fight_v with_o himself_o and_o 675._o and_o de_fw-fr princip_n christ_n dog_n l._n 2._o c._n 10._o p._n 675._o i_o oppose_v say_v lubbertus_n basil_n against_o basil_n and_o 678._o and_o ib._n p._n 678._o damascene_fw-la be_v contrary_a to_o himself_o yea_o 676._o yea_o ib._n p._n 676._o i_o oppose_v chrysostome_n against_o chrysostome_n of_o who_o also_o say_v whitaker_n 678._o whitaker_n de_fw-fr sacra_fw-la scrip._n p._n 678._o he_o be_v at_o variance_n with_o himself_o and_o 676._o and_o ibid._n p._n 676._o let_v we_o not_o attend_v what_o cyprian_n say_v but_o let_v we_o examine_v he_o by_o his_o own_o law_n yea_o of_o s._n augustin_n whitaker_n blush_v not_o to_o say_v 690._o say_v ibid._n p._n 690._o although_o in_o this_o he_o may_v be_v think_v to_o favour_v tradition_n yet_o in_o other_o place_n he_o defend_v earnest_o the_o perfection_n of_o the_o scripture_n of_o who_o also_o say_v d._n beard_n 413._o beard_n retractive_a from_o romish_n religione_fw-la 413._o augustin_n who_o they_o challenge_v for_o the_o great_a patron_n of_o this_o fire_n yet_o define_v nothing_o determinate_o of_o it_o but_o speak_v doubt_o and_o problematical_o and_o if_o he_o affirm_v it_o in_o some_o one_o place_n he_o leave_v it_o in_o suspense_n in_o other_o and_o utter_o deny_v it_o in_o a_o three_o d._n morton_n acknowledge_v that_o protestant_n 202._o protestant_n prot._n appeal_n l._n 2._o p._n 201._o 202._o have_v particular_o and_o by_o name_n observe_v that_o justinus_n ireneus_fw-la clemens_n tertullian_n origen_n cyprian_n and_o other_o albeit_o many_o time_n they_o plead_v for_o the_o free_a will_n of_o the_o corrupt_a nature_n of_o man_n yet_o be_v they_o sometime_o reduce_v unto_o the_o more_o orthodoxal_a hold_n write_v thereof_o more_o commodious_o belike_o as_o deny_v freewill_a but_o this_o be_v only_o a_o protestant_n or_o lie_a observation_n i_o must_v infer_v that_o as_o this_o so_o base_a proceed_n against_o the_o father_n do_v evident_o demonstrate_v and_o discover_v the_o unablenes_n of_o protestant_n in_o allege_v the_o father_n further_a against_o we_o than_o they_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v against_o themselves_o which_o all_o of_o judgement_n will_v confess_v to_o be_v nothing_o so_o do_v it_o alfo_o no_o less_o clear_o convince_v that_o protestant_n in_o their_o own_o conscience_n do_v find_v and_o know_v the_o father_n direct_o to_o condemn_v their_o opinion_n and_o to_o patronize_v papistry_n for_o otherwise_o they_o will_v never_o endeavour_v so_o foul_o to_o blemish_v they_o by_o urge_v contradiction_n with_o themselves_o which_o the_o mean_a writer_n though_o in_o trivial_a matter_n do_v ever_o scorn_n as_o too_o clear_a a_o argument_n of_o gross_a oblivion_n or_o worse_a inconstancy_n now_o from_o this_o conceit_n of_o the_o father_n ignorance_n and_o contradiction_n to_o themselves_o protestant_n doubt_v not_o to_o prefer_v their_o own_o modern_a writer_n for_o judgement_n knowledge_n and_o learning_n before_o the_o great_a &_o ancient_a doctor_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n so_o luther_n in_o his_o protestant_a humility_n thus_o speak_v of_o himself_o consolation_n himself_o lib._n ad_fw-la ducem_fw-la georgium_n and_o see_v colloq_fw-la lat_fw-la c._n the_o consolation_n since_o the_o apostle_n time_n no_o doctor_n or_o writer_n have_v so_o excellent_o and_o clear_o confirm_v instruct_v and_o comfort_v the_o conscience_n of_o the_o secular_a state_n as_o i_o have_v do_v by_o the_o singular_a grace_n of_o god_n this_o certain_o i_o know_v that_o neither_o austin_n not_o ambrose_n who_o be_v yet_o in_o this_o matter_n the_o best_a be_v equal_a to_o i_o herein_o 271._o herein_o tom._n 7._o serm._n de_fw-fr euersione_n jerusalem_n f._n 271._o the_o gospel_n
ancient_a papist_n in_o like_a for_o argue_v mr._n carth_n wright_n say_v that_o 18._o that_o reply_v part_n 1._o p._n 18._o the_o argument_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n which_o have_v interpret_v the_o scripture_n be_v the_o best_a reason_n in_o controversy_n of_o divinity_n be_v never_o hear_v of_o but_o by_o papist_n who_o strong_a tower_n be_v in_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o doctor_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v nothing_o more_o papistical_a than_o this_o assertion_n so_o that_o if_o protestant_n commit_v themselves_o to_o the_o trial_n by_o father_n they_o yield_v themselves_o prisoner_n to_o the_o strong_a tower_n and_o castle_n of_o the_o papist_n their_o enemy_n wherein_o what_o can_v they_o expect_v but_o ruin_n and_o confusion_n d._n whitaker_n affirm_v 423._o affirm_v cont._n dur._n li._n 6._o p._n 423._o the_o popish_a religion_n to_o be_v a_o patch_a coverlet_n of_o the_o father_n error_n sow_v together_o well_o then_o if_o our_o religion_n be_v believe_v by_o the_o father_n &_o from_o they_o deliver_v to_o we_o i_o be_o persuade_v that_o d._n whitaker_n admit_v this_o will_v place_v little_a hope_n in_o appeal_n to_o father_n for_o confutation_n of_o popish_a religion_n and_o though_o he_o false_o term_v our_o religion_n the_o father_n error_n yet_o thereby_o he_o plain_o grant_v the_o father_n to_o have_v believe_v and_o teach_v the_o same_o religion_n which_o we_o now_o profess_v and_o protestant_n impugn_v now_o the_o ancient_a father_n be_v thus_o acknowledge_v for_o papist_n i_o do_v not_o wonder_v that_o protestant_n contemn_v their_o authority_n and_o seek_v their_o disgrace_n with_o all_o contumely_n possible_a why_o may_v not_o d._n luther_n affirm_v 337._o affirm_v to._n 2._o wittemb_v l._n de_fw-fr seruo_fw-la arb._n p._n 434._o and_o the_o same_o book_n print_v in_o 8._o p._n 72._o 73._o 276._o 337._o the_o father_n of_o so_o many_o age_n to_o have_v be_v plain_o blind_a and_o most_o ignorant_a in_o the_o scripture_n to_o have_v err_v all_o their_o life_n time_n and_o that_o unless_o they_o be_v amend_v before_o their_o death_n whereof_o never_o protestant_a have_v yet_o the_o least_o intelligence_n they_o be_v neither_o saint_n nor_o pertain_v to_o the_o church_n but_o no_o doubt_n according_a to_o luther_n damn_a papist_n why_o may_v not_o he_o further_o avouch_v that_o ecclesiae_fw-la that_o in_o colloq_fw-la mensalibus_fw-la c._n de_fw-fr patrib_n ecclesiae_fw-la in_o the_o writing_n of_o hierome_n there_o be_v not_o a_o word_n of_o true_a faith_n in_o christ_n and_o sound_a religion_n tertullian_n be_v very_o superfluous_a i_o have_v houlden_v origen_n long_o since_o accurse_v of_o chrysostome_n i_o make_v no_o account_n basil_n be_v of_o no_o worth_n he_o be_v whole_o a_o monk_n i_o weigh_v he_o not_o a_o hair_n cyprian_n be_v a_o weak_a divine_a etc._n etc._n see_v how_o our_o old_a papist_n be_v betrample_v by_o a_o young_a protestant_n and_o yet_o no_o less_o resolute_a against_o they_o be_v jonam_fw-la be_v in_o jonam_fw-la pomerane_n our_o father_n whether_o saint_n or_o no_o i_o care_v not_o o_o zeal_n and_o reverence_n protestantical_a they_o be_v blind_v with_o the_o spirit_n of_o montanus_n by_o humane_a tradition_n and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n etc._n etc._n they_o teach_v not_o pure_o of_o justification_n etc._n etc._n neither_o be_v they_o careful_a to_o teach_v jesus_n christ_n according_a to_o his_o gospel_n still_o be_v the_o father_n reject_v as_o man_n blind_v with_o papistical_a opinion_n the_o centurist_n endeavour_v to_o discredit_v the_o whole_a multitude_n of_o doctor_n and_o father_n in_o every_o age_n begin_v even_o with_o the_o first_o age_n next_o after_o the_o apostle_n say_v 55._o say_v cent._n 2_o c._n 4._o p._n 55._o albeit_o this_o age_n be_v near_a to_o the_o apostle_n yet_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n begin_v to_o be_v not_o a_o little_a darken_v therein_o and_o many_o monstrous_a and_o incommodious_a opinion_n to_o protestant_n be_v every_o where_o find_v to_o be_v spread_v by_o the_o doctor_n thereof_o perhaps_o some_o cause_n thereof_o may_v be_v for_o that_o the_o gift_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o these_o doctor_n do_v begin_v to_o decay_v for_o the_o ingratitude_n of_o the_o world_n towards_o the_o protestant_n truth_n now_o as_o for_o the_o doctor_n of_o all_o age_n succeed_v they_o make_v a_o principle_n that_o the_o 17._o the_o cent_z 3._o c._n 4._o p._n 17._o further_o we_o go_v of_o from_o the_o apostle_n age_n the_o more_o stubble_n shall_v we_o find_v to_o have_v be_v add_v to_o the_o purity_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n so_o that_o all_o doctor_n and_o father_n since_o the_o very_a first_o age_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v discard_v by_o the_o centurist_n for_o stubble_n and_o papistical_a but_o luther_n will_v not_o rest_v until_o he_o have_v bring_v these_o stubble-doctour_n to_o hell_n for_o teach_v papistry_n 102._o papistry_n in_o deut._n c._n 13._o p._n 102._o satan_n say_v he_o have_v hitherto_o delude_v we_o by_o sign_n and_o lie_a wonder_n etc._n etc._n whilst_o contrary_a to_o the_o gospel_n we_o have_v admire_v pilgrimage_n apparition_n of_o spirit_n and_o cure_n at_o certain_a sepucher_n in_o so_o much_o that_o saint_n also_o err_v herein_o as_o augustin_n bernard_n hierome_n and_o many_o other_o &c._n &c._n certain_o damn_v as_o wicclif_n say_v unless_o they_o repent_v so_o that_o if_o papist_n be_v damn_v for_o believe_v the_o catholic_n faith_n they_o have_v for_o their_o companion_n hierome_n augustin_n bernard_n and_o many_o other_o most_o renown_a doctor_n of_o christ_n church_n and_o saint_n from_o this_o true_a conceit_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n be_v roman_a catholic_n protestant_n further_o disclaim_v from_o their_o interpretation_n and_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n refuse_v to_o stand_v to_o their_o judgment_n for_o the_o true_a understanding_n thereof_o thus_o than_o they_o write_v the_o sacred_a scripture_n say_v polanus_fw-la 56._o polanus_fw-la symphonia_fw-la c._n 1._o thes_n 6._o p._n 56._o be_v not_o to_o be_v interpret_v by_o father_n neither_o be_v the_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n to_o be_v judge_v by_o father_n the_o father_n be_v not_o the_o rule_n of_o expound_v the_o sacred_a scripture_n etc._n etc._n what_o be_v here_o say_v of_o every_o father_n alone_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o all_o the_o father_n join_v together_o as_o also_o of_o counsel_n that_o be_v though_o all_o father_n and_o counsel_n conspire_v together_o in_o their_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n agreable_o to_o the_o doctrine_n and_o belief_n of_o the_o catholic_n roman_n church_n yet_o protestant_n will_v not_o subscribe_v or_o admit_v the_o same_o but_o will_v valiant_o maintain_v all_o such_o exposition_n though_o most_o contrary_a thereto_o as_o be_v last_v coin_a at_o geneva_n or_o wittenberg_n or_o newly_a extract_v by_o some_o brother_n more_o illuminate_v in_o like_a and_o most_o provident_a manner_n argue_v our_o english_a puritan_n against_o doctor_n downham_n object_v against_o they_o that_o none_o of_o the_o father_n do_v ever_o understand_v the_o text_n than_o in_o question_n as_o puritan_n do_v downham_n do_v the_o puritan_n in_o their_o answ_n to_o d._n downham_n do_v not_o mr._n doctor_n know_v say_v they_o that_o to_o argue_v negative_o concern_v the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n from_o the_o authority_n of_o father_n be_v the_o practice_n of_o papist_n only_o and_o tax_v by_o learned_a writer_n against_o they_o etc._n etc._n if_o that_o manner_n of_o dispute_v be_v good_a we_o shall_v often_o loose_v more_o truth_n in_o take_v their_o interpretation_n etc._n etc._n carthwright_n term_v the_o seek_n into_o the_o holy_a father_n writing_n a_o 64._o a_o in_o bancroft_n survey_n of_o pretend_v discipl_n p._n 331._o 337_o and_o see_v chap._n 4._o p._n 64._o rake_v of_o ditch_n and_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o their_o authority_n the_o move_a and_o summon_v of_o hel._n parker_n assure_v we_o that_o 17._o that_o pref._n to_o his_o answer_n limbomastix_n and_o see_v iacob_n treatise_n p._n 1._o 3_o 54._o 81._o 68_o bilson_n sermon_n ps_n 323._o answ_n to_o broughâ—on's_n letter_n p._n 17._o if_o you_o allege_v the_o ancient_a father_n against_o they_o they_o will_v tell_v you_o roundly_o that_o their_o opinion_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o corrupt_a fancy_n of_o vain_a imagination_n of_o man_n toyish_a fable_n fond_a absurd_a without_o sense_n and_o reason_n and_o some_o stick_v not_o to_o call_v the_o father_n of_o the_o latin_a church_n the_o plague_n of_o divinity_n hence_o it_o be_v that_o the_o french_a protestant_n have_v enact_v it_o for_o a_o 4._o a_o disciplina_fw-la magistrorum_fw-la galliae_fw-la art_n 4._o law_n that_o no_o place_n be_v give_v to_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o old_a doctor_n for_o the_o judgement_n ad_fw-la determination_n of_o doctrine_n so_o clear_o be_v protestancie_n at_o a_o end_n if_o the_o father_n interpretation_n of_o scripture_n may_v stand_v for_o
good_a but_o yet_o further_o they_o doubt_v not_o to_o affirm_v the_o argument_n or_o consequence_n urge_v from_o the_o 92._o the_o puricans_n answ_n to_o d._n downham_n ser_n p._n 92._o receive_a opinion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n even_o from_o the_o apostle_n time_n unto_o our_o age_n to_o be_v liable_a to_o just_a exception_n so_o that_o though_o the_o father_n of_o all_o age_n up_o to_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o do_v all_o of_o they_o joint_o agree_v with_o our_o roman_a faith_n in_o their_o exposition_n and_o delivery_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n yet_o may_v one_o illuminate_v protestant_a except_o contemn_v and_o reject_v they_o all_o as_o not_o have_v the_o spirit_n nor_o interpret_n according_o to_o the_o analogy_n of_o the_o protestant_a faith_n but_o o_o most_o miserable_a and_o lamentable_a time_n o_o insolency_n most_o impious_a and_o incredible_a what_o the_o receive_a opinion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n even_o from_o the_o apostle_n time_n unto_o our_o age_n to_o be_v liable_a to_o just_a exception_n the_o father_n of_o all_o age_n during_o 1600._o year_n of_o all_o country_n though_o most_o distant_a in_o place_n and_o different_a in_o language_n and_o other_o condition_n of_o nature_n and_o government_n all_o of_o they_o to_o conspire_v in_o one_o opinion_n of_o truth_n &_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o all_o of_o they_o so_o foul_o and_o so_o gross_o to_o err_v as_o that_o a_o new-found_a protestant_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v it_o this_o this_o may_v a_o protestant_a often_o declaim_v but_o no_o man_n of_o judgement_n can_v possible_o believe_v he_o yea_o our_o protestant_n be_v so_o far_o out_o of_o love_n and_o like_n with_o the_o father_n as_o they_o painful_o labour_v to_o make_v the_o world_n to_o think_v that_o their_o commentary_n book_n and_o belief_n be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n and_o therefore_o to_o these_o they_o will_v ever_o appeal_v from_o the_o writing_n of_o man_n captain_n luther_n angliae_fw-la luther_n l._n contra_fw-la henricum_fw-la 8._o regem_fw-la angliae_fw-la say_v against_o the_o say_n of_o father_n man_n angel_n and_o devil_n i_o place_v not_o ancient_a consent_n nor_o the_o multitude_n of_o man_n but_o the_o gospel_n be_v the_o word_n of_o one_o eternal_a majesty_n which_o themselves_o be_v enforce_v to_o allow_v here_o i_o stand_v here_o i_o sit_v here_o i_o abide_v here_o i_o glory_n here_o i_o triumph_n here_o i_o insult_v over_o papist_n thomist_n henrician_n and_o all_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n much_o more_o over_o the_o say_n of_o man_n though_o never_o so_o holy_a and_o deceavable_a custom_n the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v above_o all_o divine_a majesty_n make_v with_o i_o so_o that_o i_o care_v not_o if_o a_o thousand_o augustins_n a_o thousand_o tertullia_n a_o thousand_o henries_n or_o papistical_a churches_n shall_v stand_v against_o i_o god_n can_v not_o err_v and_o deceive_v austin_n and_o cyprian_a as_o also_o all_o the_o elect_n may_v and_o have_v err_v my_o doctrine_n shall_v stand_v the_o pope_n shall_v fall_v here_o we_o have_v a_o man_n of_o livelie_a faith_n but_o yet_o hear_v he_o further_o gal._n further_o in_o comment_n in_o ep_v ad_fw-la gal._n no_o other_o doctrine_n be_v to_o be_v deliver_v or_o hear_v in_o the_o church_n than_o the_o pure_a word_n of_o god_n that_o be_v the_o sacred_a scripture_n let_v other_o doctor_n and_o auditor_n be_v accurse_v with_o their_o learning_n but_o here_o want_v charity_n neither_o be_v luther_n in_o this_o alone_a for_o zuinglius_fw-la likewise_o declaym_v 64._o declaym_v in_o explanat_fw-la artic._n 64._o present_o thou_o begin_v to_o cry_v father_n father_n the_o father_n have_v so_o deliver_v but_o i_o do_v not_o ask_v of_o thou_o father_n or_o mother_n but_o i_o require_v the_o word_n of_o god_n in_o like_a sort_n peter_n martyr_n 462._o martyr_n de_fw-fr votis_n p._n 462._o as_o concern_v the_o father_n judgement_n because_o our_o adversary_n the_o papist_n be_v accustom_v in_o this_o and_o other_o controversy_n always_o to_o provoke_v to_o they_o i_o therefore_o declare_v that_o to_o i_o it_o seem_v not_o the_o part_n of_o a_o christian_n to_o provoke_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o man_n from_o the_o scripture_n of_o god_n yea_o say_v he_o 476._o he_o ibid._n p._n 476._o as_o long_o as_o we_o rest_v in_o counsel_n or_o father_n we_o shall_v always_o be_v conversant_a in_o the_o same_o error_n and_o the_o like_a be_v teach_v by_o summerus_fw-la saying_n 1._o saying_n contr._n carolum_fw-la l._n 1._o c._n 1._o antiquity_n by_o which_o they_o affirm_v we_o be_v condemn_v be_v of_o no_o force_n for_o if_o they_o speak_v of_o a_o right_a believe_a antiquity_n by_o which_o we_o understand_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n the_o matter_n itself_o cry_v that_o it_o be_v for_o we_o but_o if_o they_o will_v understand_v the_o same_o of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o father_n we_o do_v not_o take_v it_o ill_a that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v condemn_v by_o they_o agreable_o hereunto_o write_v d._n whitaker_n 92._o whitaker_n contra_fw-la saunder_n p._n 92._o if_o you_o argue_v from_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n be_v they_o never_o so_o learned_a and_o ancient_a we_o yield_v no_o more_o to_o their_o word_n in_o cause_n of_o religion_n than_o we_o perceive_v to_o be_v agreeable_a to_o scripture_n neither_o think_v yourself_o to_o have_v prove_v any_o thing_n though_o you_o bring_v against_o we_o the_o whole_a swarm_n of_o father_n except_o that_o which_o they_o say_v be_v iustify_v not_o by_o the_o voice_n of_o man_n but_o by_o god_n himself_o and_o again_o 371._o again_o answ_n to_o camp_n reas_n 2._o p._n 70._o and_o see_v the_o like_a in_o abbot_n in_o his_o answ_n to_o his._n reas_n 10_o p._n 371._o we_o be_v not_o the_o servant_n of_o the_o father_n but_o the_o son_n when_o they_o prescribe_v we_o any_o thing_n out_o of_o the_o law_n and_o divine_a authority_n we_o obey_v they_o as_o our_o parent_n if_o they_o enjoin_v any_o thing_n against_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o heavenly_a truth_n we_o have_v learn_v not_o to_o hearken_v to_o they_o but_o to_o god_n you_o papist_n as_o vassal_n and_o base_a servant_n receive_v whatsoever_o the_o father_n say_v without_o judgement_n or_o reason_n be_v afraid_a as_o i_o think_v either_o of_o the_o whip_n or_o the_o halter_n if_o every_o thing_n they_o speak_v be_v not_o gospel_n with_o you_o again_o 21._o again_o against_o sanders_n de_fw-fr antichristo_fw-la p._n 21._o we_o repose_v no_o such_o confidence_n in_o the_o father_n writing_n that_o we_o take_v any_o certain_a proof_n of_o our_o protestant_n religion_n from_o they_o because_o we_o place_v all_o our_o faith_n and_o religion_n not_o in_o humane_a but_o in_o divine_a authority_n if_o therefore_o thou_o bring_v we_o what_o some_o one_o father_n have_v think_v or_o what_o the_o father_n universal_o altogether_o have_v deliver_v the_o same_o except_o it_o be_v approve_v by_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n it_o avail_v nothing_o it_o gain_v nothing_o it_o convince_v nothing_o for_o the_o father_n be_v such_o witness_n as_o they_o also_o have_v need_n of_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v their_o witness_n if_o deceive_v by_o error_n they_o give_v forth_o their_o testimony_n disagreege_v from_o scripture_n albeit_o they_o may_v be_v pardon_v err_v for_o want_n of_o wisdom_n we_o can_v not_o be_v pardon_v be_v green-witted_n protestant_n if_o because_o they_o err_v we_o also_o will_v err_v with_o they_o thus_o do_v this_o protestant_a doctor_n defend_v his_o reject_v the_o ancient_a father_n as_o write_v contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o upbraid_v we_o catholic_n for_o our_o due_a estimation_n of_o the_o same_o and_o so_o do_v protestant_n still_o labour_n in_o derogation_n of_o the_o father_n to_o oppose_v the_o sacred_a scripture_n and_o holy_a father_n as_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o but_o all_o in_o vain_a for_o who_o ever_o more_o due_o reverence_v or_o more_o careful_o preserve_v those_o heavenly_a writing_n than_o the_o ancient_a bishop_n and_o doctor_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n who_o more_o true_o translate_v they_o to_o their_o great_a pain_n &_o for_o the_o good_a of_o all_o succeed_a age_n than_o those_o learn_a father_n who_o in_o search_v the_o deep_a difficulty_n so_o frequent_a in_o they_o do_v more_o submit_v and_o captivate_v their_o judgement_n then_o these_o holy_a father_n who_o ever_o more_o press_v heretic_n with_o the_o weight_n of_o god_n word_n then_o those_o zealous_a father_n who_o ever_o write_v more_o large_a or_o more_o learned_a commentary_n and_o explanation_n thereof_o than_o the_o age_a father_n and_o be_v it_o then_o possible_a that_o the_o say_v father_n shall_v so_o direct_o contradict_v the_o sacred_a scripture_n as_o our_o protestant_n pretend_v but_o this_o so_o desperate_a &_o so_o unworthy_a deal_n against_o the_o father_n do_v clear_o convince_v that_o
have_v a_o good_a warrant_n to_o dissent_v from_o he_o you_o further_o admit_v that_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v the_o doctrine_n 27._o doctrine_n ib_a pag._n 27._o of_o s._n gregory_n and_o that_o his_o 28._o his_o ib_a pag._n 28._o not_o suffer_v image_n to_o be_v break_v when_o there_o be_v so_o public_a and_o general_a idolatry_n commit_v with_o they_o seem_v unto_o your_o osiander_n although_o not_o a_o direct_a yet_o a_o occasional_a approve_v of_o idolatry_n or_o rather_o a_o cloak_v thereof_o yea_o you_o admit_v further_o that_o 586._o that_o ib_a pag._n 586._o about_o the_o four_o hundred_o year_n image_n erept_v out_o of_o private_a man_n house_n and_o go_v into_o the_o public_a church_n stand_v there_o and_o as_o for_o relic_n you_o 583._o you_o ib_a pag._n 583._o wish_v that_o hierome_n have_v be_v a_o vigilantius_n in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o relic_n of_o saint_n you_o further_o affirm_v that_o the_o 38._o the_o ib_a pag._n 38._o apologist_n do_v true_o object_v that_o osiander_n note_v s._n gregory_n to_o have_v be_v a_o vehement_a urger_n of_o single_a life_n in_o the_o clergy_n you_o confess_v that_o 604._o that_o ib_a pag._n 604._o vigilantius_n and_o jovinian_a be_v condemn_v for_o impugn_v the_o unmarried_a life_n of_o priest_n and_o that_o the_o 480._o the_o ib._n pag._n 480._o council_n of_o nice_a restrayn_v they_o from_o marriage_n who_o be_v unmarried_a when_o they_o enter_v into_o order_n and_o 88_o and_o ib._n pag._n 88_o we_o find_v say_v you_o that_o the_o age_n next_o abut_a upon_o the_o apostle_n time_n do_v practice_v a_o perpetual_a vow_n of_o virginity_n you_o likewise_o avouch_v that_o 46._o that_o ib_a pag._n 46._o monachisme_n be_v a_o state_n of_o life_n great_o commend_v by_o s._n gregory_n who_o have_v be_v himself_o asleep_o monk_n and_o speak_v of_o ancient_a 89._o ancient_a ib_a pag._n 89._o votary_n you_o write_v that_o the_o apostle_n require_v in_o his_o widow_n the_o age_n of_o three_o score_n year_n and_o after_o time_n will_v not_o admit_v virgin_n under_o 25._o year_n old_a nor_o veiled_a nun_n till_o forty_o for_o which_o you_o cite_v several_a counsel_n as_o touch_v the_o fast_a of_o lent_n you_o write_v 303._o write_v ib_a pag._n 303._o this_o fast_a we_o confess_v be_v of_o great_a antiquity_n and_o &c._n &c._n have_v in_o general_a use_n and_o observation_n which_o s._n ambrose_n teach_v to_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o the_o divine_a institution_n of_o christ_n and_o 04._o and_o ib._n pag._n 04._o s._n augustin_n do_v sometime_o write_v of_o the_o forty_o day_n fast_o that_o it_o have_v a_o divine_a authority_n and_o where_o other_o protestant_n do_v charge_v we_o with_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o manichee_n and_o tatianist_n for_o abstain_v from_o certain_a meat_n upon_o prescribe_a day_n â—00_o day_n ib_a pag._n â—00_o yourself_o do_v clear_v we_o and_o defend_v we_o therein_o as_o also_o against_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o manichee_n 140._o manichee_n ib_a pag._n 139._o 140._o communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n and_o as_o concern_v ceremony_n you_o avouch_v that_o 53._o that_o ib._n pag._n 53._o in_o the_o innovate_a and_o multiply_v of_o new_a rite_n gregory_n himself_o be_v not_o the_o least_o agent_n and_o 58._o and_o ib._n pag._n 58._o be_v it_o know_v to_o all_o our_o adversary_n that_o the_o too_o many_o ceremony_n use_v by_o gregory_n can_v excuse_v their_o now_o far_o more_o multitude_n nor_o can_v some_o of_o his_o not_o good_a etc._n etc._n you_o charge_v he_o further_a to_o have_v use_v 53._o use_v ibid._n p._n 53._o superstitious_a manner_n of_o consecration_n of_o church_n in_o which_o 57_o which_o ibid._n p._n 57_o he_o indeed_o require_v light_n and_o as_o for_o holie-water_n you_o say_v that_o 5â—_n that_o ibid._n p._n 5â—_n true_a it_o be_v that_o aqua_fw-la lustralis_fw-la be_v use_v but_o &c._n &c._n as_o a_o invention_n of_o pope_n alexander_n who_o live_v an._n 109._o and_o it_o be_v apply_v in_o the_o day_n of_o gregory_n by_o augustin_n to_o the_o consecration_n of_o church_n together_o with_o prayer_n for_o the_o cast_v out_o of_o the_o filth_n of_o idol_n and_o devil_n and_o so_o likewise_o concern_v the_o mingle_n of_o water_n with_o wine_n in_o the_o chalice_n 142._o chalice_n ibid._n p._n 142._o you_o refer_v this_o new_a romish_a custom_n unto_o the_o say_v pope_n alexander_n the_o suppose_a author_n thereof_o last_o as_o touch_v freewill_a you_o acknowledge_v that_o 201._o that_o ibid._n p._n 201._o 201._o protestant_n have_v particular_o and_o by_o name_n observe_v that_o justinus_n ireneus_fw-la clemens_n tertulian_n origen_n cyprian_n and_o other_o albeit_o many_o time_n they_o plead_v for_o the_o freewill_a of_o the_o corrupt_a nature_n of_o man_n etc._n etc._n thus_o not_o be_v able_a to_o give_v other_o answer_n yourself_o confess_v with_o m._n brierlie_n that_o our_o catholic_n doctrine_n of_o the_o pope_n primacy_n of_o the_o pope_n not_o be_v antichrist_n of_o unwritten_a tradition_n of_o purgatory_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n of_o image_n relic_n of_o the_o unmarried_a life_n of_o priest_n of_o monk_n and_o nun_n of_o the_o fast_a of_o lent_n of_o mingle_v water_n with_o wine_n in_o the_o chalice_n of_o consecration_n of_o church_n of_o light_n in_o church_n of_o holie-water_n and_o freewill_a be_v all_o of_o they_o teach_v in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o not_o by_o any_o infamous_a and_o condemn_a heretic_n but_o even_o by_o the_o clear_a lamp_n of_o those_o age_n namely_o by_o s._n gregory_n s._n augustin_n s._n ambrose_n s._n hierome_n s._n leo_n s._n cyprian_n justinus_n tertulian_n origen_n victor_n alexander_n clemens_n ireneus_fw-la the_o council_n of_o nice_a the_o 3._o of_o carthage_n and_o other_o and_o so_o to_o conclude_v this_o first_o observation_n you_o see_v yourself_o that_o in_o steed_n of_o answer_n you_o make_v a_o good_a apology_n for_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o to_o leave_v this_o your_o so_o plain_a deal_n and_o to_o come_v to_o some_o of_o your_o more_o slippery_a trick_n whereas_o m._n brierlie_o object_v sundry_a protestant_a writer_n confess_v and_o reprove_v the_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o self_n same_o point_n and_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n now_o believe_v and_o practise_v you_o for_o your_o easy_a answer_n most_o common_o pass_v over_o all_o or_o most_o of_o the_o say_a testimony_n with_o deep_a silence_n not_o answer_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o unto_o they_o so_o that_o as_o unanswerable_a you_o conceal_v they_o in_o your_o answer_n but_o what_o child_n or_o idiot_n profess_v arianism_n pelagianisme_n donatism_n or_o the_o like_a may_v not_o with_o like_a facility_n have_v answer_v all_o the_o book_n and_o proof_n make_v by_o s._n athanasius_n s._n augustin_n s._n hilary_n and_o other_o learn_a doctor_n against_o the_o foresay_a heresy_n now_o to_o give_v you_o example_n hereof_o even_o in_o the_o first_o entrance_n m._n brierlie_a in_o his_o 1._o section_n intend_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o faith_n of_o s._n gregory_n and_o whereunto_o england_n be_v convert_v by_o s._n austin_n be_v the_o same_o with_o our_o now_o catholic_n faith_n confirm_v the_o same_o by_o the_o testimony_n and_o grant_n of_o d._n humphrey_n osiander_n the_o centurie-writer_n of_o magdeburg_n d._n fulk_n daneus_n m._n harrison_n and_o m._n bale_n the_o three_o first_o instance_v the_o same_o by_o many_o particular_a point_n of_o religion_n and_o the_o rest_n confess_v in_o general_a that_o our_o conversion_n by_o s._n gregory_n and_o s._n austin_n be_v to_o popery_n or_o the_o papistical_a faith_n now_o all_o this_o be_v comprehend_v by_o m._n brierlie_n his_o book_n within_o the_o compass_n of_o less_o than_o one_o quarter_n of_o a_o sheet_n of_o paper_n you_o spend_v in_o answer_n thereto_o above_o 60._o page_n and_o yet_o in_o never_o one_o thereof_o do_v you_o full_o and_o direct_o answer_v to_o any_o of_o your_o say_a author_n cite_v against_o you_o yea_o some_o of_o they_o you_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v or_o take_v the_o least_o notice_n of_o and_o the_o like_a may_v i_o show_v throughout_o your_o whole_a book_n at_o other_o time_n you_o admit_v that_o the_o protestant_a writer_n allege_v by_o m._n brierlie_n do_v indeed_o reprove_v the_o father_n for_o several_a point_n of_o papistry_n but_o therewith_o you_o be_v displease_v and_o oppose_v yourself_o against_o your_o own_o dear_a brethren_n charge_v they_o to_o have_v do_v the_o same_o without_o just_a cause_n and_o with_o great_a wrong_a and_o injury_n to_o the_o say_a father_n but_o now_o you_o go_v by_o the_o ear_n with_o very_a many_o protestant_n no_o less_o if_o not_o more_o renown_a than_o yourself_o and_o what_o man_n of_o ordinary_a sense_n and_o reason_n will_v not_o give_v more_o credit_n to_o