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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10399	Tvventy nine lectures of the Church very necessary for the consolation and support of Gods Church, especially in these times: wherein is handled, first, in generall concerning first, the name; secondly, the titles; thirdly, the nature, fourthly, the diuision of the true Church: secondly, of the visible Church ... and lastly, the application of it to all Churches in the world so farre as they are knowne to vs. By that learned and faithfull preacher, Master Iohn Randall, Batchelor of Diuinity, pastor of Saint Andrewes Hubbart in little Eastcheape, London, and sometimes fellow of Lincolne Colledge in Oxford. Published by the coppie perfected and giuen by the author in his life time; carefully preserued and adorned with notes in the margent, by the late faithfull minister of Christ, Master William Holbrooke.	Randall, John, 1570-1622.; Holbrooke, William.	1631 (1631)	STC 20683; ESTC S115641	423,199	550

bookes by the Scripture and not make any so of her selfe for this she cannot doe The third Position is this That as the Church cannot make any booke Canonicall which is not so of it selfe for she hath no power to deuise adde diminish or alter any part of Gods worship outward passages of Gods worship are much in her power as we shall see hereafter but that she may ordaine any part of his worship besides Scripture or affixe remission of sins or other supernaturall effects to the obseruations and ceremonies which she deuiseth all this is but will-worship hatefull to God and expresly forbidden Col. 2.23 Intolerable hath beene the presumption of the Church of Rome in both these For first they haue ordained besides Scripture Images satisfactons new Sacraments new intercessours new propitiatory sacrifices and sundry other parts of Gods worship and seruice Secondly euen to ceremonies of their owne deuising as to crossings processions ringing of Bels pennance and such like they haue ascribed forgiuenes of sinnes driuing away of Deuils and such like gracious effects wherein consists no small part of Gods worship The fourth point is concerning the customes of the Church custome we know preuailes much in matter of practice and many times they are very approuable and not to be varyed from but vpon good occasion yet in matters of Religion yeelding to customes hath bred much inconuenience as wee see amongst vs profaning the Sabbath by playing and walking in the streets and in the fields after the exercises is growen to such a custome as that men thinke it no sinne and so in other things And to speake plainely customes are but a carnall motiue apt to ouer sway the naturall man but of themselues besides Scripture they are no spirituall motiues to the true Beleeuer The ancient fathers tye vp customes in Religion thus short that they must be agreable to the truth so that where truth and customes agree there they are to be admitted else to be reiected Now what is truth Our Sauiour saith Gods Word is truth Iohn 17 17. then if there be any customes in matters of Religion besides the Scriptures which are the truth they must be abolished euen by the Iudgement of the Fathers whom the Papists would seeme to alleadge for these things yea but say they the Apostle Paul alleadgeth custome 1 Cor. 11.16 but how doth he alleadgeth them Against contentions because contentions are against the Word of God so that custome besides Scripture is nothing worth The last point is for matter of traditions Traditions are one mine Piller of Popery and if they leaue them once they will quickly leaue their Religion too Now if we vnderstand traditions in a general sense It intends the whole Doctrine of Saluation which from time to time hath beene deliuered from the fore fathers to the children of the Church And so we willingly embrace traditions as being the Doctrine contained in the word and so the speeches of many of the ancients are to bee expounded and doe make for traditions But in the particular sense as the Popish Church intends them that is vnwritten verities and matters besides Scripture then so there is no building on them If they be verities it is more then we know and being vnwritten we haue no warrant to receiue them to his point we say first eyther there were no such traditions at all or secondly if there were yet they were needlesse considering the sufficiency of the Scripture thirdly if they were needfull yet they were vncertaine lastly if they were certaine yet certainely they were but the words of men and not certainely the word of God First eyther there were none at all I meane for matter of substance yes say they for substance ye haue something by tradition as the Baptisme of Infants the change of the Sabbath and that so many bookes are Canonicall Scripture c. We Answer wee haue not these by tradition for they may sufficiently be proued by good consequence out of the Scripture As first for the Baptisme of Infants we haue the example of our Sauiour in Marke 10.14 And secondly for the Canon of Scripture we haue that place 2 Tim. 3.16 the whole Scripture is giuen by Inspiration from God c. yea but what place in the word saith that so many bookes are Canonicall I Answer euery booke beares witnesse of it selfe and this place of them all that they are Canonicall Thirdly for the change of the Sabbath we haue Reu. 1.10 where it is called the Lords day so that we haue Scripture enough for these things to satisfie an humble minded man that is not contentious Secondly if there were any such yet they were needlesse for supposing the sufficiency of Scripture which we haue proued before what neede vnwritten traditions besides Scripture Indeed before the Word of saluation was committed to writing It was needfull that it should be deliuered by word of mouth from man to man but the word being now written and hauing beene now written these 1610. yeeres and as much written as euer shall be what haue we to doe with traditions besides Scripture Thirdly if they were necessary yet they are vncertaine for how shall I know that the Apostles deliuered ought by tradition or that the Churches after them be they either de facto or de iure For that which is alleadged from the Apostle in the 2 Thess 2.15 keepe the Instructions yee haue bin taught eyther by word or by Epistle whereupon they say the Apostle left traditions and Epistle I Answere these words doe not imply any diuersity in the things he taught but onely in the manner of deliuery looke what he preacht he writte And whatsoeuer can be alleaged for the Churches after them is but the testimony of man we must know it by history and what certainety is there in that to repose my Saluation vpon Lastly if they were certaine yet all this while they were but certaine the traditions of men and certainely not the Word of God And therefore here is the damnable presumption of the Papists that they by name call them the Word of God vnwritten equall them both in authority to binde the conscience in necessity to be beleeued and obeyed with the written word common sence and reason which is endued but with the least touch of Religion will easily decide this controuersie If we adde heere to determination of councels consent of fathers decrees of Popes and other patches and faynings of Popish Religion the conclusion must be this that either there were none such or if there were they were not beside Scripture but according to it or else if they were besides Scripture then they were no matter of substances nor Saluation nor to be receiued as such The second Vse is for Instruction to teach vs what Vse 2 it is that our faith must be framed by and what euery truth is to be tryed by And that is

office of the mediator the third is concerning Images the fourth is concerning Iustification for the first which is her corruption in Doctrine concerning the Scripture which is the truth and ground of Religion they teach uery erroniously not onely that which disparageth them which yet is a presumptuous sinne but that which by consequence vtterly ouerthrows them First in that they dare deny the sufficiency of Scripture Secondly in that they peruert the truth of Scripture thirdly in that they disanulle the authority of Scripture First they deny expresly the sufficiency of Scripture whereas God hath deliuered them as a particular rule 2 Tim. 3.16 they say No It is not sufficient of it selfe they must be pieced and perfected by traditions No man dare adde to the will of a dead man and yet these are so shamelesse and presumptuous that they dare presume to adde to the sacred Testament of Iesus Christ thus they deny the sufficiency of Scripture Secondly they peruert the truth of Scripture teaching and deliuering first concerning the translation that none is to be admitted as authen●icall but the vulgar Latine translation which themselues confesse is sometimes faulty and doth misse of the meaning of the Holy Ghost secondly for the interpretation of Scripture they will admit of none but such as it pleaseth the fathers to giue who themselues acknowledge may and doe sometimes erre and are deceiued now to teach that an vntrue translation is the Text of Scripture and an vntrue interpretation to be the sense of Scripture what is this but to make the Scripture vntrue Third they disanull the authority and credit of the Scripture and that many wayes first teaching that the Apochryphall bookes which are knowne to containe certaine vntruthes to be Canonicall Scripture secondly equalling the traditions of men with the written Word of God and vrging them to be receiued with as great authority as the Word of God Now if the Word of God be of no more authority in matters of Saluation then the word of man it is very feeble and not worth trusting to Thirdly they goe further preferring the authority of the Church aboue the Scripture the Scripture say they is to beleeued for the authority of the Church that is as much as if they should say God is not to beleeued for his owne sayings but for the witnesse of man thus they disanull the authority and credit of the Scripture Now all these layd together see whether that may not be iustly taken vp against them which our Sauiour speaketh against the Iewes Iohn 8 47. he that is of God heareth Gods Word ye therfore heare them not because yee are not of God and Iohn 10.26.27 ye beleeue not because yee are not my sheepe my sheepe heare my voyce and I know them and they follow me Gods children heare his word and will not impeach the truth and credit of it the Popish faction will not heare it but will impeach the truth and credit of it and therefore they are none of Christs sheepe So much for their error in Doctrine concerning the scripture where wee see that their fountaines are corrupt and therefore we are like to finde but foule waters in their Channels Their second Error in Doctrine is concerning the direct office of the mediator God saith directly that there is but one Mediator betwixt God and man that is Christ 1. Tim. 2.5 they say there are many the blessed Virgin Mary and other Saints not onely praying for vs but to bee inuocated by vs doth not this iustle Christ out of his roome at least to sit so close that others must sit in commission with him in that office they would shift it off with this that they make the Saints mediators of intercession onely and Christ of Redemption and the Apostle say they when he saith there is but one Mediator c. hee meanes of Redemption not of intercession I Answere that the Apostle in that place speakes of a Mediatour of intercession for he speakes of Prayers and intercessions in the first Verse and as in reason he that is to make intercession for any must be able to reconcile them and to take away the enmity and to bring the parties whom he intercedes for into fauour else it would be a friuolous and vayne intercession and he that intercedes for any must be such an one as the person interceded doth appoint or at least approue of for that businesse euen so the Scripture propounds Christ alone to be intercessor in both these respects 1 Iohn 2.1.2 If any man sinne wee haue an Aduocat with the Father Iesus Christ the Iust and he is the propitiation for our sinnes He is our Aduocate or intercessor and our propitiation or reconciliation both and Iohn 16.23 whatsoeuer ye shall aske the Father in my name he shall giue it you hee doth not say whatsoeuer ye shall aske in my mothers name or in the Saints names but in my name And therefore both Redemption and Intercession are oft times in Scripture by name ioyned together as in that 1 Tim. 2.5 6 there is one Mediator betwixt God and man c who gaue himselfe a Ransome for all men Rom 8.34 who shal condemne vs it is Christ that died ye rather that is risen again who is euen at the right hand of God who also maketh intercession for vs so that we see to be mediator of intercession is as peculiar to Chrst as to be mediator of redemption They shift again say we pray to the Saints not as helpers but as intercessors onely but wee pray to Christ as intercessor and helper by his owne power too I answer yet still they make them intercessors then though not in the same degree and so they eyther iustle Christ out of his roome or set his mother and the Saints on the Bench with him but if therebe any other intercessors then either the intercession of Christ is imperfect or else the intercession of the Saints is superfluous But say they we doe no more to the Saints in heauen then yee doe to the Saints on earth and then the Apostle did to the Thessalonians in the 2 Thes 3.1 Brethren pray for vs c. I answer First wee haue a warrant for this Scripture but for the other wee haue none at all Secondly will any man say that the Apostle made them intercessors for him This were a disparagement to him no but hee intreats them to be fellow Suitors and ioint Petitioners to God with him and for him Thirdly the Saints that are aliue we haue accesse vnto and can vtter our mindes to them but so wee cannot to them that are deceased and therefore they that pray to them though it be but as fellow suitors they make God of them in that very fact that is they make them knowers of the desires of the heart for Prayer is the desire of the heart and to know that is proper to God

vnto vs the sufficiency Scrip● Thirdly such as forbid any addition to or detraction from the Scripture Fourthly such as condemne all Doctrine taught either without or besides the Scripture Rhemists 15 Acts ● The Papists say the church may coyne new articles of faith What authority the Church hath about articles of Faith Hyper 6● Hyper 54. Secondly that the Church make any booke to bee Canonicall Scripture Which the Papists hould this confuted by diuers reasons Thirdly that the Church hath power to deuise adde diminish or alter any part of Gods worship which the Church of Rome hath done prooued by diuerse things Fourthly concerning customes The fathers iudgement concerning customes Fifthly concerning traditions How and in what sense tradition is to bee receiued Answers to the Popish tenent concerning tradititions Answer 1. Ob. Answer wherin is shewed that the Baptisme of Infants the change of the Sabbath and that so many bookes are Canonicall Scripture and are not had by tradition but proued by good consequence out of the Scripture Answ 2. Answ 3. Their proofe out of 2 Thes 2.15 Answe Answ 4. The scripture the so onely rule of saith acknowledged to bee by all Churches generally Secondly the Scripture is the onely tryall of euery truth How euery matter of substance is to be found in the Scripture Concerning Churches power in matters of circumstance and they are of two sortes one of miracles and what is to be helde concerning the same Secondly of discipline and this is of two sorts either matter of d●scipline which is spoken of before or secondly matter of ceremonies and what the church hath power to doe therein The bounds the Church is to keepe in ordaining matters of ceremony 1. 2. Vse 2. 1. The ninth generall point concerning the Church viz. the application of all that hath bin spoken to all visible Churches in christendome that I know of The generall diuision of all churches that haue beene or are since our Sauiours time into Easterne and Westērne and this according to their sc●tuation Secondly according to their language and so some be greek and some latin Churches VVhether Schismaticall or hereticall Churches may be accounted true visible Churches What a Schismatike church is Hereticall Churches First what they are and when any particular man is to be reputed an Heretike Heresies of 2. sorts first such as ouerthrow the foundation What this fundation is Resol Those that deny directly this foundation or any part thereof cease to bee Christians and are no more visible Churcher The Greeke Churches be here spoken of and what weare to thinke of them 1. of the Greeke Churches generally disperse in most at the Easterne parts of the world Ortelius 100. Ortelius 97. 98. 108. Secondly the Greeke Churches which are more particularly and properly so called and what we are to hold of them deliuered in an obseruation Doct. The mayne error of the Greeke Churches The Greeke Churches better then the Popish-Church The Papists vnchatarible censuring the Greeke Churches answered The Greeke Churches not gu●lty of Schisme from Rome The Greeke Churches neuer subiect to the Romane Church One note of the Church as the Papists account it is found in the Greeke Church viz succession of Bishops The goodnes of God in perseruing of his Churches seene in the Greeke Churches vnder the Turke The miseries of the Greeke Church vnder the Turke in many particulars in regard of their persecutions in regard of the Religion of the Turks The Religion of the Turks 1. a pestilent Religion directly opposite to Christ 2. It ouerspreadeth a great part of the knowne world 3. It is a pleasing Religion For what it was that the Lord suffered such famous Churches to come to ruine applied to vs. The Western churches and first of those that acknowledge the Pope their head as the Church of Rome and those that hold with her and what ma● be said and held of her deliuered in two obseruations The church of Rome as now it standeth may in some sense be reputed a true visible Church A differen●e betweene the papacy or the pop●sh ●action and some better spirits amongst them in regard of whom the whole may be called a true Church The popish church doth not directly deny any part of the fundation but in outward shew of words affirme it The church of Rome hath beene a true Church The Papists by their Doctrine of iustification by workes must ouerthrow the foundation they by this ouer throw Christ not directly but by consequence Quest Answ It is not so great a sin to deny Christ directly as by consequence yet hee that doth this deserueth to be cut off from Gods mercy The Church of Rome compared with the Church of Israel 2. with the Church of the Iewes in our Sauiours times With the Church of Galatia Circumcision doth as neerely by consequence cut off from Christ as iustification by workes with the of Church Sardis Baptisme a true Sacrament in Rome and rightly administred there for the substance of it Those that were Baptised in the Church of Rome were lawfully Baptised Ob 1. Answ Ob. 2. Answ The ordinati of our Ministers from the Church of Rome and yet a lawfull ordination The question where the Church was before Luthers time answered The inconuenience preuented by acknowledging that the Church of Rome may be accounted a true Church What to thinke of our fathers that liued in the Popish Church They of the Popish Chu●ch are to ●e ●ud●ed rather mis-beleeuers then vnbeleeuers The 2. Obseruation wherein is further delired what may be sayd and held further of the church of Rome The Church of Rome so corrupt that it is not lawfull to ioyne with her This that is spoken against thee is in respect of the Pope and Popish factors Corruption of the Church of Rome reduced to 2. sorts 1. matter of Doctrine reduced to 1. part of the Doctrine Foure heads 1 concerning Scriptures And their error therein Three things 1 denying the sufficiency of the Scripture 2 Per●erting the truth of the Scripture 3 Disanulling the author●ty and credit of the Scripture many wayes 1 teaching the apochrypha●l bookes to be canonicall Scripture Secondly equalling traditions of men with the written word of God Thirdly preferring the authority of the Church aboue the Scripture Two heads wherein they orre in matter of Doctrine viz concerning the direct offices of the Mediator The Papists say there bee many mediators betwixt God and man The distinction of mediators of intercession and redemption answered Two things in a Mediator To be mediator of intercession is peculiar to Christ as well as to be mediator of redemption The popish sh●ft off praying to the Saints not as helpers but as intercessor Answered The popish reason for praying to the Saints departed drawn from our desi●ing the Saints on earth to pray for vs Answered The third head wherein the church of Rome erreth in doctrine and that is concerning Images The church of Rome an abominable whore deseruing

the Scriptures and plainenesse and constancy in it selfe is such that it requires that whosoeuer interpret them they must doe it according to the meaning of God in them and not their owne minde So much of the reasons Vse 1 The vses of this point are many The first is for matter of reproofe and that principally of the Papists and it meets with them two waies First it reproues their opinion and secondly their practice And first it reproues them for their opinion for they esteeme the Scriptures but a dead or killing Letter and the written Word but bare and dead Inke It is the Church say they that is the mouth of the Scriptures giuing it sound and sense and it hath no meaning but what shee pronounceth This is their wicked opinion but the faithfull haue spirituall eares they heare God himselfe speake euen in the written Word It is true that the Church sounds it to the outward eare but God speakes in it to the heart and conscience and they receiue it not as the word of man but as it is indeed the Word of God A dead letter doe they call them O horrible blasphemy Stephen calls them liuely Oracles Acts 7.38 and the Angell Acts 5.20 calls them words of life and Christ himselfe saith Iohn 5.39 that eternall life is in them and that they are witnesses of him If they be dumbe as they say they are then they giue but a slender witnesse of Christ but our Sauiour would haue vs to know that there is a liuing voyce in the Scripture as hee saith Iohn 6.63 the words that I speake are spirit and life I say not that this life is in the Scriptures simply but as it is in the Sacraments to the faithfull Receiuer that is by the promise of God and the presence of his Spirit It is true that the Church is the mouth of the Scriptures as Aaron was the mouth of Moses Exod. 4.16 Hee shall be thy spokes-man to the people hee shall be vnto thee in stead of a mouth and thou shalt be vnto him in stead of God And as the Prophets were the mouth of God Luke 1.70 as he spake by the mouth of all his holy Prophets c. thus the Church is the mouth of God and his spokes-man to the people and so farre shee is to be beleeued But that she is so the mouth of Scriptures as that what sense soeuer shee speakes must be esteemed the voyce of Scripture this is not to be beleeued No the Scripture is not dumb but speakes it selfe Rom. 10.11 the Scripture saith and Rom. 11.2 Wot ye not what the Scripture saith and most plainely Rom. 9.17 for the Scripture saith vnto Pharaoh c. that is God in the Scripture saith to Pharaoh so that the Scriptures are not dumb but the spirituall man heares God speake in them As it condemnes their opinion so secondly it condemns their practice and that in many respects and first in regard of their vulgar latin translation for they impose that vpon the Church as the authenticall Text and Word of God and in the councel of Trent they haue decreed that none may appeale frō it vnder any pretence and that vpon paine of Gods curse It is true that translations are Scripture so far as they goe with the originall Text but that any translation is to be equalled much lesse preferred to the originall Text wherein both the the matter and the words are Gods owne it is absurd And this is a sufficient motiue to any indifferent mans iudgement not blinded and besotted with mysts of preiudice and error that wee are in the right and they are in the wrong because we are willing to stand to the tryall of Gods own Text but they will onely stand to their owne translation refusing the other The second practice of theirs heere reproued is that all their expositors are slaues and vassalls to their Church for in all their interpretations either they must concurre to award with the sense that the Church hath already giuen or if they differ they must vaile Bonnet and say with submission of their iudgement to the church of Rome and then though they doe erre yet it is not damnable because they shew a willingnesse to be better aduised else they are Heretikes and Castawayes it were farre more grace in them to submit themselues to the iudgement of God with intreaty of pardon for that wee haue not attained to the full sense of his words for if any wrong be done therein it is most to him whose words wee haue mistaken and also wee must pray vnto him for further illumination who is the father of lights and in this they would shew themselues to be the good seruants of God whereas in the other they shew themselues to be the seruants and slaues of men Their third practice here reproued is this That in the oath which generally all Papists receiue they doe sweare to vnderstand Scripture onely so as the Fathers ioyntly do expound them and to receiue no other interpretation but that which they doe generally consent in No doubt but the Fathers ioyntly consenting and all agreeing in the exposition of a Scripture It is great reason to moue me to belieue that it is the true sense but yet it is no proofe that I should sweare to it but I aske what one place of Scripture is there that is not manifest by its owne light which is expounded one and the same way by all the Fathers If it be manifest by it selfe wee beleeue it for its owne light and not for theirs but if it be not manifest in it selfe then some one or other of Fathers dissent in the interpretation of it yea but say they if most agree then it is all one as if they all agreed But what if the most dissent from the best must we follow the most to doe euill But in the diuision of the Commandements they follow not the most but leaue all the rest of the Fathers and follow Austin who will haue but three Commandements in the first Table because hee had a conceit of a mystery of the Trinity to be in them But will they beleeue the most and leaue the best this is against Gods Commandement to follow the multitude to doe euill but thus they must doe or else they are foresworne See what dangerous plunges these desperate fellowes put themselues on to vphold the Churches transcendent authority in expounding of Scripture● but secondly what if they do all generally concur and yet misse in the right expounding of Scripture some of the best learned amongst the Papists challenge them so to doe and we can giue instance of it as in the dangerous heresy of the Millenaries vpon that place Reu. 20.4 that Christ should raign on the earth after the day of iudgement a 1000. yeers now if they follow the Fathers in this exposition wherein they generally erre they must forsake the truth if they

What things are to be warranted Warrants for the cautions conditions and carriage of the businesse are First more principall Secondly infer●our warrant Second head and in it fiue Rules The second Rule That is vncomely in one place which is decent in another What is to be reputed decent Order extends it selfe to two things First to things to be done Secondly to persons The third Rule Three wayes how peace is indangered The fourth Rule Three wayes how this rule is broken The fifth Rule The third head and that is the end And there be two kinds of them Two graces necessary for this First wisedome Secondly love When this Rule is swerved from Instances in divers duties Proofes are here vsed because omitted before The sixth generall things concerning the Church viz. the priuiledges of it In this head two points handled 1 handled by way of obseruation Reasons 2 things handled viz. the priuiledges of Church and they be of two sorts 1 humane 2 di●r these ●uers sorts generally of two sorts 1. In respect of others both friends and enemies 2. In respect of themselues 1 temporall priuiledges 2. Spirituall priuiledges these● of two sorts 1 common to all the members 2. proper to the true Beleeuers and these of two sorts 1. matters of present possession of diuers kindes 4 The workes God doth for the faithfull 2. matters of future certainties 2. other speciall priuileges added and intreated on 1. concerning the infallibe guidance of the Church by Gods Spirit and so whether the Church can erre or no either in manners or in Doctrine or in both or in neyther Errors of foure sorts 1. what a fundamentall Errors is Errors in smaller matters what they be Difference btw●eene them that erre in the foundation and them that erre in smaller matters The second thing is concerning the necessity of being a member of the Church if euer wee will attaine saluation and so whether any may be saued out of the Church or no. Extra fidem Ecclesiae Morn 451. The seuenth generall head in the doctrin of the church viz. the aduersaries and opposites of it This handled in 5. point ● Th● 〈…〉 that the Church of God hath many Aduersaries to oppose it deliuered in a Doctrine Sti●ting vp to many duties The second point what these aduersaries are and they are many 2. sort 3. sort 4. sort 5. sort 6. sort 7. sort 8. sort 9. sort 10. sort 11. sort 12. sort Vse 3. The third point which is how these Aduersaries oppose vs. The matter they strike at 1 against the persons of professors 2 against their profession The manner of their opposition ● secretly 2. open● 3. The means or weapons wherby they fight against Gods Children 1 carnall reasons and therein 2. Religious pretences and herein 1. Scriptures 2. that they are the Church 3. miracles 3. more grosse dealing The 4. point how the Church is to carry her selfe to her aduersaries 2. things to be done that we may be able to make a good fight What is to be done in it and therein 2. things The 2 worke to be done 2 thing how it is to be done The 5 point how the Lord carrieth himselfe to his Church and their aduersaries How God is with the saith full in many respects How God is against the enemies his Church many waies Vse 2. The 8. generall head of the Church viz. the power and auhority of it And in it 3. things to be spoken vnto 1. that there is a power 2. point what manner of power it is and in it things asserted 1 that it is not humane but diuine How we may know when the Church speakes true or false Two things asserted that power of the Church is not temporal but spirituall The 3. thing asserted that the Power of the Church is limited and scantled within the bounds of the Word The 4. thing asserted that the power of the Church is the greatest power on earth Kings are vnder the power of the Church though they be aboue the persons that exercise it The 3 point is what it is that the Church haue power in it is double 1. ouer persons and that 1 either as members either not come in to admitte Who are to be admitted The Act and meanes of admission This not to be renued vpon any falling away How far the Magistrate may compell Or to repell them Or secondly as come in to keepe them in or cast them out Or thirdly ouer members as Officers to choose or refuse place or displace Secondly the Church hath power ouer things and these either matters of substance as touching the Scripture and therein first touching the credit of the Scripture And herein whether the authority of Church bee greater then the authority of the Spripture Bellarmy de Verbo Dei interpret 246. The blasphemous speeches of the Papists concerning the Scripture without the approbation of the church The Church of Rome is that whore of Babilon The best positions of the Papists in this controuersie Answered How the Church is to be beleeued and obeyed Answered Reasons against it Reply How we must esteeme of the Scriptures How we must esteeme of the Church 4. Wayes how we may know the scripture to be the Scripture 6 Rules concerning our beleeuing what the Church saith of the authority of the Scripture The second thing the Church hath power in about the Scripture is th● sense of it and how farre it hath power therein Hieron in Epist ad Gelat cap. 1. Reprouing first the opinion of the Papists The Scriptures speake and haue a voyce How the Church is the mouth of the Scripture The Scripture not dumbe Secondly their practice first in regard of the vulgar latine translation imposed by them as the authenticall Text. Secondly in that all their Expositors are slaues and vassalls to their Church Thirdly in regard of the oath which generally all Papists rec●ue concerning the exposition of the Scripture The Fathers doe all generally concur and yet misse in the right expounding of the Scriptures Fourthly in that they rely vpon the iudgements of Councells and the Pope● in case the Church dissent First other mens and the Churches expositions are to be examined by vs. Ob. Answer 1. Rectract lib. cap. 18. Secondly in framing expositions of our owne we must come not as masters to teach but as schollers to learne to the Scriptures Directions to walke and be ruled by when wee seeke the sense of the Scripture they are of three sortes 1 some before wee come to expound the Scripture they are 7. Things to be obserued in the businesse it selfe How we may consulie with Gods Spirit What is the analogie of faith Things to be doue after Diuers obiections against this doctrine Ob. 2. Ob 5. Of the authority of the Church in matters besides the Scriptures and what is to be held therein The places that proue this are of foure sorts First such as ascribe th●s authority to God alone Secondly such as commend

and naturall Mother that Reas 5 brings forth a Childe of her owne body and after she hath brought it forth nourisheth it with her owne milke So likewise the Church that doth beget us by the Word of Truth and nourish us with the Sacraments is not shee a true Church Sixthly every Tree is knowne by the fruites Matth. 7.16 Reas 6 17. The false prophet is knowne by his false doctrine for so the place intends if that bee a sufficient marke to know them by then true doctrine is a sufficient marke to know the true Church by Seuenthly it is Christs presence that makes a true visible Reas 7 Church therefore the Word and Sacraments outwardly representing Christs presence so as nothing else doth and so making him notoriously present make a true visible Church Lastly frō the sufficient enumeration of the parts of a true Reas 8 visible Church it must be so none are members and parts of it but the Ministers and people now the Ministers doing their duties in dispensing Gods mysteries both for preaching the Word and administring the Sacraments they are the Ministers of Christ 1 Cor. 4.1 and the people doing their dutie in obeying that they teach at least outwardly they are the sheepe of Christ Ioh. 10.4 Now which of these markes might be spared or what other are Vse 1 there that neede to bee added Therefore where these are there is a true visible Church The vses of the point are these The first vse is matter of reproofe and that of many aduersaries First it reprooues such as except and say first that other Congregations besides Except 1 the true visible Church have these markes and therefore they are not sufficient nor infallible markes I answere Answ It is true that other Congregations pretend to haue these markes as what Heretikes or Schismatikes are there that will not say they have the Truth and right faith with them this is the generall claime of them all the Scriptures are ours and for us But this is a false pretence for when it comes to the tryall it will appeare that it is but their saying not that it is so in truth for either they will refuse some part of the Scripture or else they will mangle and deprave it or else they will take the Letter for the sense as the Papists doe in the matter of Transubstantiation this is my Body and other Heretikes that because it is said He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire therefore they baptize with fire taking the Letter of the Scripture instead of the sense of it Or else they adde somthing to the word as traditions and such like and so though they doe approue and take it in at the fore-doore yet they cast it out at the backdoore so that indeede they haue it not at all whatsoeuer they pretend we may say truly therefore that they challenge these markes but wee cannot say they are theirs but they still remaine the proper right of Gods true Church Wee know that the Divels policie and the depth of his subtiltie is to imitate apishly the courses of God that thereby hee may deceiue the more cunningly and therefore hee will counterfeit Gods owne markes and cognisance but wee must trie the Spirits 1 Ioh. 4.1 and the proofe will make all cleare for Sathan can transforme himselfe into an Angell of light and his Apostles can transforme themselues into the Apostles of Christ and his Ministers as though they were the Ministers of righteousnesse 2 Cor. 11.13 14 15. So then though these lay claime to these markes and say they are theirs yet they have no right to them it is but their vaine bragges their master Sathan himselfe alleageth Scripture and pretends it is for him but hee was shamefully discouered by our Sauiour for hee left out part of it and depraued it as wee may see Math. 4.6 7. And so the harlot Pro. 7.14 said I have peace-offerings this day I have paid my vowes therefore came I out to meete thee she pretends to pray but her intent was to play the harlot And so Zidkiah 1 King 22.24 braggs that hee had the Spirit of Prophecie when indeede it was a lying Spirit that was in his mouth So the Congregations of Heretikes and of Schismatikes lay claime to the Word and Sacraments and say they are theirs when as indeede they are not because they doe either refuse some part of them or depraue them or adde vnto them their owne Inuentions Secondly that except and say that many visible Churches haue Except 2 not these markes at least not all of them alwayes I answer yes they haue them all Answ and that alwayes in some measure more or lesse els they are not true visible Churches For the better vnderstanding hereof consider these two things first the different estate of Churches sometimes Gods Church doth thriue and flourish and then it hath all these markes without doubt Gods Word is truly preached the Sacraments rightly administred and obedience to them both is professed and yeelded and that in an high degree But sometimes a Church of God is not in such an excellent estate some are but in their beginings newly planted and so cannot haue all at once but hath euery thing in its order place first the Word is tendred to them then the people if they beleeue and submit themselues and professe obedience to it they are to be made partakers of the Sacraments First Baptisme and then the Lords Supper so far forth as it is a visible Church it hath all these marks these Church's are but in their beginnings and therefore they haue but the beginnings of these notes and markes Againe sometimes a Church is in a dying and decaying estate either by reason of Apostacie or persecution if the Church bee in a decaying state by Apostacie what shall I say to such Churches I say that so farre forth as these be true visible Churches so farre forth they retaine these markes if they be but the remainders of a Church then they haue the remainders of these markes if it bee a dying and a decaying Church then it hath dying and decaying markes So then these markes must be found in all true visible Churches according to the state of those Churches if it be a dying Church then the Word and Sacraments and Obedience are dying and decaying too but when it is quite fallen it ceaseth to be a true visible Church nor hath it these markes And so likewise in the time of persecution when the Church is so persecuted that there are none left to make open profession of the Faith and Religion of Christ yet so long as there are any that publikely suffer for the Gospell so long there is a true Church though troubled and brought low for by their suffering they professe obedience to the Gospell and though they are debarred of the publike vse of the Word and Sacraments yet the fruit and effect of them is still visible

and so they haue these notes and markes in some degree Secondly consider in what state or sense these markes are necessarily required in the Church they should be and sometimes are in the purest and soundest Churches in an high and excellent degree There is the true Word without tradition the true Sacraments none but those that Christ instituted true obedience without resistance to any part of the knowne Will of God and answerably this true Word must bee truely and soundly preecht these Sacraments onely so administred as Christ hath commanded without any addition and this true obedience truly professed without any sinister respect And this all Churches are to pray and labour for and thus it ought to bee in all true visible Churches but yet they are generally otherwise in all visible Churches in as much as all are subiect to errors and corruptions but yet so long as the true markes are found in any visible Church though they bee not so rightly and sincerely carried as they should the same is a true Church though not so pure as some others if they haue the true Word though mixt with some errors so they be not such as ouerthrow the foundation they are a true Church though more corrupt As for example the Church of Galatia embraced the true Word but not truly preached for they taught iustification by workes Gal. 3.1 2 3. and some thinke that they were then in the state of Apostacie and yet they were a true visible Church and are so called Gal. 1.2 So secondly for the Sacraments looke into the Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 11.22 to the end of the Chapter they had the Lords Supper but it was much depraued and not so sincerely administred as it ought to haue beene and yet they were a true Church and so for the Doctrine of the Resurrection a materiall point in Religion there were some that denyed it in the Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 15.12 and yet they were a true Church Lastly for profession of obedience the Church of Sardis Revel 3.3.1 had a name that she liued but was dead they were generally in the estate of Apostacie in that Church yet because they made profession of obedience though not sincerely and because some amongst them did truly professe as in the 4. ver therefore it is called a Church I speake not this to cherish any Church in the corruptions that they are in but onely to keepe vs from an vncharitable conceit of such a Church as not to esteeme it for a true Church because the Word is not so truely preacht nor the Sacraments so rightly administred nor profession of obedience so sincerely yeelded as it ought to be Thirdly they obiect and say that these are not more Except 2 knowne than the Church and so are disabled by your own rule before given from being the principall markes I answer they must be and are better known than the Church for seeing that onely is a true Church which professeth the true Faith as wee haue shewed before therefore wee must first know which is the true Faith before wee know which is the true Church and so as they must bee more knowne so they must bee first knowne I know a visible Church as a company of men not by their faith but as a Church by their faith only and their profession of it As I know a Musitian because of his Musicke not the Musicke by the Musitian And so much for reproofe of these first sort of Aduersaries that except against this Doctrine Secondly it reproueth others that obiect and say that there are other markes required as well as these as first Loue to the Brethren I answer This is a part of their obedience which they professe Secondly say they there Except 1 must bee a lawfull Ministery I answer that is presupposed and intended in the two former markes Answ when we say Except 2 that the Word must be truly preach'd and the Sacraments rightly administred Answ Yea but say they specially Discipline Except 3 that is an essentiall marke I answer That is a good marke Answ but not essentiall the Church hath a being and a wel-being Discipline is a note of the wel-being of the Church not of the true being of it for it is no part of the essence of the Church and so it is excluded from being a necessary marke of a true Church because it is not essentiall I confesse where that Discipline wants that God calls for in his Word that so farre that Church is an imperfect Church but yet not a false Church As a man sicke of the Palsey his sinewes are weak his hands tremble his ioynts are not soundly knit together this is a crazed and diseased man not a false man So that Church that wants Discipline is not well and soundly tied together in the ioynts and so is an imperfect Church not a false Church I speake not this as I said before to cherish any Church in their corruptions for they are to labour against them but yet let vs iudge charitably and not say Such a Church is a false Church when indeed it is but a bad Church Thirdly and lastly there are other aduersaries here reproued that obiect against this Doctrine and they are the Papists They obiect and say that these markes are not the principall but others are more required than these and that as better markes They alleage foure first Antiquity secondly Succession thirdly Multitude lastly Vnity or Consent These are strange markes of a true Church First for Antiquitie can that find me out the true Church then it would follow that euery ancient Church were a true Church and so the Church amongst the Turks should be a true Church because it is ancient therefore it is Antiquity of truth not of place or people Look what Church maintaines the ancient Doctrine of truth that is the true Church so that antiquitie separated from the truth is no note of a true visible Church Caine and Satan were ancient yet no true Church but ioyne this note with the Truth The true Word preach'd which is one of our notes and then it is a true marke Secondly for Succession What succession of Bishops or of men that sit in one Chaire Is this a Note without the Word or with it If they say without the Word that is fals●●f with the word then still they run vpon our notes and markes of the Church for wee say that Succession of true and sound Doctrine is a special Note of the Church Succession of it selfe is no Note it is as if a man should say This is my Horse because this is my Bridle as if his Bridle would not serue any other Horse Thirdly for multitude they make that a Note of the Church but it is quite contrary for generally the true Church is the fewest in number and for the most part the greater number are the worst and by this Rule in Christs time the Scribes and Pharises and Iewes were