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sense_n father_n scripture_n tradition_n 1,582 5 9.3519 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A05364 A consultation what faith and religion is best to be imbraced. Written in Latin by the R. Father Leonard Lessius, Professour in Diuinity, of the Society of Iesus. And translated into English by W.I. Lessius, Leonardus, 1554-1623.; Wright, William, 1563-1639. 1618 (1618) STC 15517; ESTC S105037 99,482 276

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away_o that_o make_v to_o the_o substance_n of_o doctrine_n all_o this_o can_v to_o be_v know_v by_o scripture_n but_o prove_v only_o by_o certain_a humane_a weak_a conjecture_n if_o you_o take_v away_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o whole_a foundation_n of_o our_o faith_n shall_v rely_v upon_o uncertain_a conjecture_n moreover_o the_o virtue_n and_o efficacy_n of_o the_o scripture_n consist_v not_o in_o the_o sound_n of_o the_o word_n but_o in_o the_o sense_n &_o meaning_n which_o be_v the_o life_n and_o soul_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o thousand_o controversy_n about_o the_o sense_n which_o can_v in_o any_o sort_n be_v decide_v by_o the_o scripture_n itself_o if_o you_o take_v a_o way_n tradition_n and_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o father_n as_o experience_n teach_v for_o about_o the_o sense_n of_o these_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la and_o of_o many_o more_o there_o be_v most_o eager_a disputation_n between_o the_o lutheran_n and_o caluinist_n etc._n etc._n if_o you_o say_v with_o caluin_n that_o the_o judgement_n touch_v the_o scripture_n and_o the_o understanding_n of_o they_o belong_v to_o a_o inward_a spirit_n this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o dictamen_fw-la of_o a_o internal_a spirit_n that_o be_v for_o the_o private_a judgement_n of_o every_o particular_a person_n to_o set_v down_o the_o first_o rule_n how_o to_o believe_v for_o every_o one_o may_v say_v that_o he_o have_v the_o spirit_n and_o by_o the_o inspiration_n thereof_o can_v judge_v and_o determine_v that_o this_o part_n or_o book_n be_v holy_a scripture_n and_o not_o that_o that_o this_o be_v the_o sense_n not_o that_o so_o a●_n lutheran_n out_o of_o his_o spirit_n give_v judgement_n ti_fw-mi in_o prologonou●_n testamer_n ti_fw-mi that_o s._n james_n epistle_n be_v a_o strawy_a epistle_n and_o the_o apocalyps_n of_o s._n john_n of_o doubtful_a authority_n but_o the_o caluinist_n out_o of_o his_o soiri●_n judge_v the_o one_o 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give_v sentence_n shall_v so_o do_v it_o as_o it_o can_v not_o be_v certain_o understand_v for_o whether_o party_n he_o pronounce_v the_o sentence_n but_o both_o party_n shall_v contend_v that_o the_o matter_n be_v adjudge_v and_o determine_v on_o their_o side_n and_o that_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o judge_n be_v express_o &_o plain_o pronounce_v for_o they_o such_o a_o one_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o all_o man_n can_v not_o be_v think_v a_o competent_a judge_n since_o no_o matter_n in_o controversy_n can_v be_v determine_v or_o end_v by_o sentence_n give_v by_o he_o for_o after_o sentence_n there_o will_v be_v as_o greata_fw-la contention_n about_o the_o sentence_n itself_o whether_o of_o they_o it_o may_v seem_v to_o favour_n as_o there_o have_v be_v before_o about_o the_o right_n that_o each_o party_n have_v and_o such_o a_o judge_n be_v holy_a scripture_n if_o you_o take_v away_o the_o church_n interpretation_n and_o declaration_n and_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o holy_a 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that_o neither_o of_o they_o desire_v the_o determination_n or_o decision_n of_o the_o cause_n and_o that_o neither_o admit_v other_o judge_n than_o his_o own_o judgement_n in_o the_o very_a like_o manner_n in_o this_o that_o they_o will_v not_o have_v any_o other_o judge_n then_o scripture_n and_o every_o one_o reserve_v the_o interpretation_n thereof_o to_o his_o own_o spirit_n they_o plain_o show_v that_o they_o have_v no_o will_n that_o the_o cause_n shall_v be_v decide_v or_o define_v by_o any_o lawful_a way_n nor_o to_o admit_v any_o judge_n but_o their_o own_o judgement_n four_o how_o very_o insufficient_a this_o rule_n of_o belief_n be_v experience_n itself_o plain_o teach_v for_o we_o see_v that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o end_n of_o controversy_n among_o they_o even_o about_o the_o great_a matter_n of_o faith_n since_o at_o this_o very_a time_n the_o lutheran_n caluinist_n
remission_n of_o synn_n they_o explicate_v of_o not_o imputation_n only_o not_o acknowledge_v any_o inward_a renovation_n by_o inherent_a justice_n and_o the_o infuse_a gift_n of_o god_n after_o which_o manner_n the_o catholic_n do_v hold_v that_o sin_n be_v forgive_v by_o these_o it_o be_v manifest_a how_o great_a a_o difference_n there_o be_v in_o the_o understanding_n of_o the_o creed_n see_v therefore_o that_o there_o be_v but_o only_o one_o truth_n and_o this_o in_o our_o consultation_n we_o have_v show_v to_o be_v among_o catholic_n it_o necessary_o follow_v ●●_o one_o god_n creator_n of_o all_o thing_n because_o his_o alcoran_n do_v teach_v he_o so_o which_o he_o think_v to_o be_v write_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n his_o faith_n albeit_o he_o believe_v that_o which_o be_v true_a rely_v upon_o a_o false_a and_o deceytfull_a reason_n by_o the_o force_n whereof_o he_o be_v move_v to_o believe_v many_o false_a and_o blasphemous_a thing_n as_o that_o there_o be_v not_o three_o person_n in_o the_o b._n trinity_n and_o that_o christ_n be_v not_o god_n and_o that_o christ_n be_v inferior_a to_o mahomet_n and_o that_o circumcision_n &_o the_o like_a be_v still_o to_o be_v keep_v that_o faith_n therefore_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o foundation_n be_v both_o deceitful_a and_o hurtful_a the_o same_o happen_v unto_o alheretike_n the_o which_o be_v suppose_v i_o urge_v the_o argument_n in_o this_o manner_n that_o faith_n which_o rely_v upon_o a_o false_a foundation_n albeit_o it_o believe_v something_n which_o be_v true_a can_v be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n but_o the_o faith_n of_o all_o the_o sect_n of_o this_o time_n rely_v upon_o a_o false_a foundation_n it_o can_v be_v therefore_o sufficient_a for_o salvation_n the_o first_o proposition_n be_v manifest_a in_o itself_o for_o how_o can_v that_o which_o be_v deceitful_a &_o uncertain_a be_v the_o foundation_n of_o our_o eternal_a 〈…〉_o how_o can_v the_o true_a religion_n where●●_n we_o please_v god_n be_v ground_v in_o a_o false_a deceitful_a faith_n true_o it_o be_v no_o less_o repugnant_a to_o reason_n then_o if_o thou_o shall_v say_v that_o truth_n be_v ground_v upon_o lie_n wisdom_n upon_o error_n and_o virtue_n upon_o folly_n the_o second_o proposition_n ground_n the_o faith_n of_o all_o sectary_n depend_v upon_o a_o false_a ground_n to_o wit_n that_o all_o sect_n be_v ground_v upon_o a_o false_a and_o deceitful_a foundation_n i_o prove_v in_o this_o manner_n for_o either_o they_o believe_v their_o opinion_n for_o the_o authority_n of_o their_o apostle_n luther_n caluin_n melancthon_n zwinglius_fw-la etc._n etc._n who_o they_o judge_v to_o be_v endue_v with_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n or_o because_o every_o one_o of_o they_o in_o their_o own_o private_a judgement_n do_v believe_v those_o thing_n to_o be_v contain_v in_o holy_a scripture_n or_o last_o because_o their_o own_o private_a spirit_n do_v inward_o testify_v unto_o they_o that_o those_o thing_n be_v true_a or_o that_o 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understanding_n of_o holy_a scripture_n the_o which_o far_o exceed_v the_o reach_n of_o man_n wisdom_n and_o reason_n many_o do_v answer_v that_o they_o do_v not_o rely_v upon_o their_o judgement_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o upon_o the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o can_v err_v scripture_n whether_o all_o sectary_n do_v rely_v upon_o the_o scripture_n wherein_o how_o miserable_o they_o be_v deceive_v by_o this_o appear_v because_o almost_o all_o the_o sect_n do_v say_v that_o they_o rely_v upon_o holy_a scripture_n whereas_o notwithstanding_o they_o differ_v among_o themselves_o in_o most_o of_o the_o matter_n one_o teach_v contrary_a unto_o another_o the_o which_o can_v by_o no_o mean_n come_v to_o pass_v if_o they_o do_v not_o rest_n upon_o their_o own_o judgment_n but_o upon_o the_o lawful_a and_o common_a understanding_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o the_o holy_a scripture_n be_v not_o where_o contrary_a unto_o itself_o neither_o do_v it_o any_o where_o disagree_v from_o 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which_o how_o deceitful_a oftentimes_o it_o be_v may_v easy_o be_v declare_v by_o the_o disagreement_n of_o so_o many_o sect_n for_o it_o be_v all_o one_o whether_o thou_o say_v that_o thou_o rely_v upon_o scripture_n as_o it_o be_v interpret_v by_o thy_o proper_a judgement_n or_o that_o thou_o rely_v upon_o thy_o own_o judgement_n precise_o in_o itself_o final_o the_o three_o reason_n whereupon_o many_o now_o adays_o do_v rely_v be_v most_o deceitful_a and_o scornful_a of_o all_o a_o manifest_a sign_n whereof_o be_v that_o among_o the_o anabaptist_n who_o above_o all_o other_o be_v guide_v by_o the_o instinct_n of_o the_o spirit_n there_o be_v the_o great_a variety_n of_o sect_n and_o disagrement_n of_o faith_n the_o which_o can_v not_o be_v but_o that_o the_o spirit_n whereupon_o they_o rely_v and_o by_o who_o they_o be_v govern_v be_v deceitful_a and_o variable_a the_o same_o also_o be_v to_o be_v see_v among_o caluinist_n and_o lutheran_n and_o among_o their_o sect_n and_o diverse_a faction_n for_o their_o own_o opinion_n be_v certain_a and_o evident_a unto_o every_o one_o of_o they_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o their_o own_o private_a judgement_n the_o which_o inward_o teach_v every_o one_o of_o they_o and_o affoard_v the_o testimony_n of_o truth_n unto_o every_o one_o of_o they_o whereby_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o this_o spirit_n be_v not_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n who_o can_v teach_v contraries_n or_o be_v opposite_a unto_o itself_o but_o it_o be_v a_o wicked_a spirit_n the_o spirit_n of_o error_n who_o be_v a_o liar_n from_o the_o begin_n and_o the_o father_n of_o lie_n who_o work_v in_o the_o child_n of_o incredulity_n of_o who_o the_o apostle_n say_v because_o they_o have_v not_o receive_v the_o charity_n of_o truth_n 6._o 2._o thess_n 6._o he_o will_v therefore_o send_v they_o the_o operation_n of_o error_n that_o they_o may_v believe_v in_o lie_n and_o in_o another_o place_n 4._o 2._o tim._n 4._o in_o
authority_n of_o a_o greek_a and_o latin_a copy_n in_o the_o dutch_a bible_n translate_v it_o thus_o hoc_fw-la significat_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la this_o signify_v my_o body_n in_o the_o 2._o act._n 27._o where_o it_o be_v say_v non_fw-la derelinques_fw-la animam_fw-la meam_fw-la in_o inferno_fw-la thou_o will_v not_o leave_v my_o soul_n in_o hell_n beza_n translate_v it_o thus_o non_fw-la relinque_fw-la cadaver_fw-la meum_fw-la in_o sepulchro_fw-la thou_o wiltnot_v leave_v my_o carcase_n in_o the_o grave_n change_v the_o greek_n word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v animam_fw-la into_o cadaver_n and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d orcum_fw-la into_o sepulchrum_fw-la and_o be_v not_o this_o think_v you_o to_o corrupt_v scripture_n caluin_n do_v so_o expound_v almost_o all_o the_o place_n of_o scripture_n whereby_o the_o ancient_a father_n do_v prove_v the_o trinity_n of_o person_n and_o the_o divinity_n of_o the_o son_n or_o the_o holy_a ghost_n that_o he_o do_v everuate_v all_o the_o force_n thereof_o wherein_o he_o do_v not_o alittle_o symbolize_v with_o the_o jew_n sabellian_o arian_n and_o macedonian_n again_o the_o 53._o whole_a chapter_n of_o isay_n which_o be_v manifest_o mean_v of_o the_o passion_n death_n and_o satisfaction_n of_o christ_n caluin_n expound_v it_o metaphorical_o of_o the_o grief_n and_o molestation_n which_o the_o jewish_a people_n by_o their_o sin_n do_v cause_n unto_o christ_n and_o what_o can_v be_v more_o violent_o or_o absurd_o speak_v or_o what_o can_v be_v more_o fit_o accommodate_v to_o the_o jew_n perfidiousness_n matth._n 19_o vers_fw-la 17._o where_o it_o be_v say_v si_fw-mi vis_fw-la ad_fw-la vitam_fw-la ingredi_fw-la serua_fw-mi mandata_fw-la if_o thou_o will_v enter_v into_o life_n keep_v the_o comaundement_n caluin_n will_v have_v this_o speech_n to_o have_v be_v utter_v by_o christ_n in_o a_o scoff_a manner_n or_o mockingly_a allo_fw-la ad_fw-la hebr._fw-la 5._o vers_fw-la 7._o exauditus_fw-la est_fw-la pro_fw-la sva_fw-la reverentia_fw-la he_o be_v hear_v for_o his_o reverence_n caluin_n expound_v the_o greek_a word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o signify_v metum_fw-la or_o dubitationem_fw-la fear_n or_o doubtfullnes_n and_o say_v that_o hereby_o be_v signify_v that_o christ_n be_v strike_v with_o so_o horrible_a a_o terror_n of_o death_n that_o he_o be_v ready_a to_o fall_v into_o delperation_n of_o his_o eternal_a salvation_n i_o omit_v many_o other_o place_n mounseur_fw-fr du_fw-fr plessis_n a_o principal_a caluinist_n in_o france_n in_o a_o little_a book_n of_o he_o which_o he_o publish_v of_o the_o supper_n of_o our_o lord_n have_v corrupt_v more_o than_o a_o hundred_o testimony_n of_o father_n &_o doctor_n partly_o by_o cut_v of_o and_o mangle_v their_o word_n and_o partly_o by_o add_v thereto_o of_o his_o own_o as_o also_o in_o this_o book_n of_o he_o he_o produce_v many_o argument_n which_o by_o school_n doctor_n as_o the_o manner_n be_v be_v object_v against_o the_o truth_n and_o afterward_o solue_v and_o answer_v by_o themselves_o as_o if_o they_o have_v be_v set_v down_o express_o by_o they_o for_o their_o own_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n of_o which_o fraud_n he_o be_v these_o year_n pass_v public_o convince_v in_o presence_n of_o the_o late_a king_n of_o france_n and_o many_o of_o his_o nobility_n by_o the_o bishop_n of_o eureux_fw-fr now_o cardinal_n as_o be_v well_o know_v to_o all_o france_n and_o the_o very_a same_o deceypt_n and_o craft_n do_v all_o their_o writer_n use_v when_o they_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v their_o opinion_n and_o doctrine_n out_o of_o the_o father_n moreover_o authoritye_n their_o allege_v of_o obscure_a authoritye_n this_o be_v another_o common_a trick_n among_o these_o man_n to_o wit_n that_o in_o cite_v the_o father_n opinion_n they_o do_v always_o omit_v their_o clear_a &_o perspicuous_a sense_n which_o may_v explicate_v and_o plain_o declare_v their_o mind_n and_o instead_o thereof_o they_o produce_v common_o some_o obscuren_n and_o dark_a sentence_n of_o they_o be_v they_o do_v but_o by_o chance_n and_o as_o it_o be_v by_o the_o way_n touch_v the_o controversy_n in_o hand_n of_o which_o fraud_n very_o many_o testimony_n be_v allege_v not_o only_o against_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o eucharist_n but_o against_o many_o other_o evident_a article_n of_o catholic_a faith_n also_o as_o for_o example_n against_o free_a will_n against_o internal_a justice_n against_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n against_o the_o authority_n of_o counsel_n etc._n etc._n and_o there_o be_v nothing_o so_o clear_a and_o evident_a in_o our_o faith_n which_o by_o certain_a obscure_a place_n of_o scripture_n or_o father_n may_v not_o seem_v to_o be_v impugn_a nor_o be_v there_o any_o thing_n so_o absurd_a which_o by_o that_o mean_n may_v not_o be_v defend_v for_o what_o be_v more_o absurd_a then_o to_o say_v that_o christ_n body_n be_v every_o where_o alwel_n as_o his_o divinity_n and_o yet_o do_v these_o man_n go_v about_o to_o confirm_v the_o same_o by_o many_o restimony_n both_o of_o scripture_n and_o father_n what_o be_v more_o absurd_a then_o to_o say_v that_o god_n be_v the_o author_n of_o all_o sin_n or_o that_o man_n have_v not_o free_a will_n and_o yet_o do_v they_o alleadg_n many_o obscure_a place_n both_o out_o of_o scripture_n &_o father_n to_o establish_v those_o their_o fancy_n y●_n they_o seek_v for_o truth_n why_o then_o do_v they_o omit_v those_o place_n which_o be_v plain_a and_o perspicuous_a and_o fly_v unto_o such_o as_o be_v obscure_a and_o dark_a &_o why_o do_v they_o not_o stand_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o doctor_n for_o explication_n thereof_o who_o be_v long_o before_o our_o time_n but_o will_v only_o rely_v and_o rest_v upon_o their_o own_o sense_n and_o interpretation_n when_o as_o any_o obscure_a speech_n of_o the_o father_n do_v but_o seem_v to_o favour_v they_o those_o they_o do_v diligent_o and_o ready_o produce_v and_o do_v endeavour_n to_o confir_n i_o their_o doctrine_n therewith_o but_o when_o catholic_n to_o the_o contrary_n do_v allege_v any_o thing_n out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o be_v evident_o against_o they_o than_o they_o make_v answer_v present_o and_o say●_n that_o the_o father_n be_v me●●_n and_o consequent_o subject_a to_o error_n but_o they_o rely_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o can_v err●_n y●_n you_o reply_v and_o say_v that_o the_o father_n do_v also_o rely_v upon_o the_o word_n god_n they_o answer_v that_o the_o father_n have_v not_o attain_a to_o the_o understanding_n of_o the_o divine_a word_n and_o therefore_o be_v deceive_v y●_n you_o ask_v they_o how_o they_o know_v that_o the_o father_n have_v not_o attain_a to_o the_o true_a sens●_n and_o understanding_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n &_o themselves_o have_v they_o answer_v that_o 〈◊〉_d be_v evident_a out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o how_o be_v it_o evident_a see_v there_o beso_fw-es many_o and_o so_o diverse_a interpretation_n among_o they_o and_o that_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n have_v interpret_v otherwise_o they_o they_o and_o the_o lutheran_n otherwise_o then_o the_o caluinist_n and_o they_o again_o otherwise_o then_o the_o anabaptist_n the_o interpretation_n say_v they_o be_v evident_a to_o he_o that_o have_v the_o spirit_n but_o to_o other_o not_z and_o thus_o do_v the_o patroness_n of_o every_o sect_n answer_n and_o reduce_v their_o final_a judgement_n of_o every_o controversy_n to_o a_o prin●●_n spirit_n therefore_o the_o caluinist_n say_v that_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n all_o the_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n all_o general_a counsel_n want_v the_o true-spirit_n of_o understand_v the_o scripture_n as_o also_o do_v the_o lutheran_n and_o anabaptist_n at_o this_o day_n want_v the_o same_o only_o themselves_o have_v the_o true_a spirit_n and_o to_o they_o it_o be_v special_o grant_v from_o above_o and_o therefore_o to_o they_o ●n_o be_v spirit_n be_v manifest_a in_o so_o much_o that_o whatsoever_o they_o teach_v that_o be_v the_o pure_a word_n of_o god_n the_o very_a sum_n thing_n say_v the_o lutheran_n to_o wi●_n that_o the_o counsel_n father_n &_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n do_v want_v this_o true_a spirit_n as_o also_o the_o caluinist_n &_o anabaptist_n do_v only_o to_o they_o it_o be_v grant_v and_o therefore_o say_v they_o it_o be_v evident_a and_o certain_a that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v agrable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o final_o the_o anabaptist_n do_v take_v away_o this_o spirit_n from_o all_o other_o and_o claim_v it_o as_o proper_a only_o to_o themselves_o but_o how_o absurd_a think_v you_o &_o void_a of_o reason_n be_v all_o these_o thing_n how_o incredible_a be_v it_o that_o all_o the_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v want_v the_o true_a spirit_n of_o understand_v scripture_n and_o that_o it_o shall_v begve_v now_o to_o the_o caluinist_n only_o or_o