by mistaking of the word Canonicall which is sometimes taken largely to signfie aswel the Bookes that might concerne the Rule of Manners as those which serue for the foundation of the doctrine of Faith in which sence your Father and Councell are to be vnderstood whereas the same word in the strict and proper signification doth only comprehend the Bookes which agree with the Canon of the Hebrewes according to the generall consent of the Ancient Fathers of all Churches before the dayes of Saint Augustine To this end hee sent no worse p Letter to T.H. pag. 62. Messenger to cleare this doubt then a person eminent both by name and place I meane that famous Cardinall Cajetan Ne turberis Nouitie saith he Si alicubi reperias libros istos inter Canonicos supputari Cum hac distinctione poteris discernere dicta Augustini scripta in Concilio Prouinciali Carthaginensi Hee tels you that they are thus to be vnderstood as also that none but Nouices in the writing of the Ancient Fathers will trouble themselues by making any question in so apparaÌ„t a truth Nick. Iabal hath well requited him for his paines I trow he hath sent the Cardinall away with a flea in his eare If Caietan had beene Pope hee would haue beene twice aduised before he had so rudely reiected his Oracles My fellow Iack Footeman would haue no great Maw to carry a Message to such a currish Swaine from whom hee expects no better entertainment Min. Caietan I wis had more wit in his little finger then Iabal in his whole body Beati Pacifici was his aime Should such hot-spurres as our Nouice haue beene made Arbitrators there would haue beene such a broyle amongst the Fathers as would not be easily reconciled For if you take away this fauourable most probable distinction you should soone see a field pitch'd betweene q Vide Admon praefix Concord Bibliorum per haered Wecheli Cyril Cyprian Origen r Si quid extra haec inuenitur inter adulterinos libros numerandum est Greg. Nazian Nazian zene Å¿ Anthonin Summ. maior Parâ— 3. tit 18. cap. 6. § 2. Hierome t Alij libri sunt qui non Canonici sed Ecclesiastici a maioribus appellati sunt eiusdem ordinis Tobiae Iudith et Machabaeorum libri Ruffi in Symbol fol. 575. Ruffinus Epiphanius u Sunt Canonici veteris testamenti libri viginti duo lâ—teris baebraicis numero parâ—s Aâ—ban ex Synopsi Athanasius Eusebius and Gregory on th' one side discarding them and Augustine the Councell of Carthage Trent on th' other part defending them When this pitch'd battel should haue beene fought the Romanists might haue sought our valiant Sanga vnder the Trundle-bedde till the hurly burly had beene at at end vnlesse they had pluckt him out by the heeles no perswasion would haue drawne him to shew his face they are all so peremptory and plaine against the Canonizing of these Apogriphall bookes This was not vnknowne to the Cardinal who was thereby induced to thinke that S. Augustine tooke the word Canonicall in the larger sence as comprehending the Ecclesiasticall writings within the verge thereof Ma. Had it beene an error an the Iewes not to haue receiued these bookes as they did the Law and the Prophets I cannot thinke but that Christ or his Apostles would surely haue reproued so notable a crime seeing they were not meale-mouthed in the reprehension of lesser faults And whereas we receiue this maine benefit by the Apostacy of the Iewes that therby the world seeing them enemies vnto the Messias cannot but giue the greater credence to the bookes of th' old Testament without suspect of partiality which otherwise might haue beene doubted the adopting of these other Apocriphall into the Canon were as much as in vs lieth to vilifie th' authority of their authentique records who may not improbably be thought to haue taken in those that were adulterine as well as to haue degraded those that are found to haue beene diuine Min. If all other reasons were mute me thinkes the Author Matter and Manner of the history might well make an ingenuous person very sparing in the defence The Author if wee may credit the x Vide Zanch. de diuin attrib lib. 4. ca. 4. enlarging Epitomizer of these bookes is y 2. Mac. 2.23 Iason Cirenaeus a z Spiritu sancto inspirati loquuti sunt sancti Dei homines 2. Pet. cap. 1. v. 21. heathen man for-sooth a fit Secretarie for the Court of heauen It seemes pen-men were then as scanty as sometimes a 1. Sam. c. 13. v. 19. Smiths in Palestine This must needs bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which requireth so much b 2. Mac. 2. v. 26. watching sweating and pains in the refining Calamus Scribae velociter scribentis would haue eased all this toyle which is not to bee feared where the Omniscient spirit is the Dictator As touching the matter it is wouen in a webbe of such palpable contradictions that a man who regardeth his credit would be sorry at his heart to bee taken tripping in such contrary tales One while c 1. Mach. c. 6. v. 16. Antiochus died for griefe in Babilon Another while hee was slaine in the Temple of d 2. Mac. c. 1. v. 13. Nanea where his head was cut off And yet is not Antiochus out of his paine As if he had as many liues as a Cat you shal see him stalke once more vpon this historicall Stage and then at last fall downe and dye with a most noysome stinking smell consumed with e 2. Mach. c. 9. v. 9. Ducit ad inferos â— educit wormes Indeede I must needs say he is very modest in the deliuery He writes not f Math. 7. v. 29. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as one who had the custody of the mint to warrant the mettle whereunto he had put his stampe but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pleasure and recreation of the reader Had he had the warrant of the spirit hee would haue spared the labour of begging fauor and suing out a pardon for which hee is faine to crowch to the Readers gentlenesse Ma. Then had the holy Father S. Augustin good cause to say that they are receiued profitably if they bee read Soberly For if they should bee read with a precipitate opinion as Canonicall Scriptures in the strict sence the many leakes which are transparant in them would goe very neere to sinke th' authority of the rest Iab It appeareth by that testimony against the Epistle of Gaudentius that the Christians gaue that authority to those h Pag. 55. bookes which the Iewes did not grant vnto them that the Church did set them vp in the throne from which the Synagogue had kept them which was the Imperiall throne of sacred Authority Otherwise S. Augustins opposition The Iews did not but The Church doth were vaine Ma. The
forsitan Iab Indeed he doth Hierogliphick my name of u Preface I.R. in English Latin and Hebrew making mee in the one Iack Roague in the other Iscarioth de Rubigine and Ishmael Rashacheh in the third wherwith he ioyneth the Sirnâ—me of Cecropidan Licaonite Nick. Hee saw you were x I.R.F. Trium literarum homo therefore for want of a better god-father hee made bold to fit your Appellation according to your praedominant quality And seeing there was no one word or single language able sufficiently to expresse your worth hee thought fit by his variety to make you knowne for a viperous Sesquipedalian in euery coast where the frothy Libell of such a namelesse miscreant should arriue Min. Had you saide shamelesse you had giuen him no more then his due What will he not spare to speake who dares auerre that the Fathers of former ages doe without the contradiction of any peremptorily deliuer the doctrine of Purgatory and the same exposition of this place touching pardon in the next world How waueringly S. Augustine speakes his Forsitan back'd with an Ignoranius doth sufficiently declare Macarius his dicotomy of two sole receptacles doth exclude any opinion of a third Chrysost tells vs that God y In Pre. e. in Isay quando peccata abolet nullam reliquam facit cicatricem Tertullian ioynes in the same peremptory assertion z Tertul. de Baâ—t exempt to reatu eximitur et poena What think you of S. Hierome doth he deserue to stand in your Kalendar of Fathers As hee crossed you in your foundation of the Machabees so doth hee mar your market and raze your whole building with this a In Psal 31. gradation Quod tegitur non videtur quod non videtur non imputatur quod non imputatur non punietur That which is couered is not seene that which is not seene is not imputed that which is not imputed shall not bee punished Where is now the generality of consent Is this your certainty without contradiction Doth S. Chrysostom expound this place of Mathew otherwise then thus Non effugient poenam they shall surely be punished Speaks he one word to countenance your sence You shold haue shewed your selfe farre more Ingenuous in answering to this as Durandus Antonius in the behalf of Indulgncees De Indulgentijs say they pauca dici possunt per certitudineÌ„ quia nec scriptura expresse de eis loquitur Sancti etiaÌ„ patres Ambrosius Hillarius Hieronimus Augustinus minime loquuntur de Indulgentijs Touching Indulgences the inseparable b Per modum Causae Concomitants of purgatory little can be said by way of certainty because neither Scripture doth expresly mention them neither do the holy Fathers speake of them at all With the like speech did the Knight present you out of c Roffâ—aâ—tic 18. contra Luth. Lett. to T. H. pag. 77. Roffensis vizt whosoeuer shall read the Greeke Fathers shall finde very rare or no mention of Purgatory Ma. It seems the Doctor hath either a better paire of spectacles or a more piercing sight Shall we imagine he hath beene more industrious in the perusall of th' auncient Records then that eminent Bishop or haue wee not rather iust cause to thinke him too much deuoted to Lensaeus his lines which hee rendreth word for worde without any further perusall of the truth It is the customary d Motiue T. H. pag. 169. in Mâ—rg trade of the Romanists to vouch opinions when they want the Authors books The view of the Fathers writings would haue stopped the passage and curtold the Philactery of this his insolent bragge Min. How willing they are to misunderstand the Fathers their like collection in wresting the words of S. Paul 1. Corin. 3.13 doth sufficiently proclaime There the Apostle tells vs that Euery mans worke shall be made manifest for the day shall declare it because it shall be reuealed by the fire and the fire shall try euerie mans worke of what sort it is From this Metaphoricall speech they e Motiue T. H. pag. 110. would inferre a litterall necessity of Purgatory fire But their grand Doctor saw so little colour for this that hee is driuen to put them beside this plancke Patres aliqui saith f Bellar. de Purg. lib. 2. ca. 1. hee per ignem non intelligunt ignem purgatorij sed ignem diuini iudicij Some of the Fathers doe not by fire vnder stand the fire of Purgatory but the fire of Diuine Iudgement When the Auncients speake of this fire the Catholique spirits traduce their words and thinke they haue gotten a great purchase Sure it is the fire whereof S. Paul there speaketh hath no affinity with the fire of Purgatory for that trieth euery mans worke this onely purgeth some mens persons euery mans worke is subiect to that fire as well gold siluer and precious stones as timber hay and stubble but as for the fire of Purgatory they make it capable of no other fuell then timber hay and stubble the defilements of veniall and mortall sinnes S. Pauls fire makes euery mans worke manifest the Popes fire burning in an obscure place is without all lustre and light Besides if they vnderstand the Apostle as speaking of a reall fire they must also grant that hee speakes of materiall gold and siluer c. If th' one be Metaphoricall there is no reason they should deny th' other to bee Allegoricall Ma. Your Inference hath the warrant of Quintilian In Allegoria saith he tenendum est illud vt quo ex genere rerum coeperis eodem desinas secus Inconsequentia foedissima erit But as I remember I haue read sundry fathers alleadged g Motiue T.H. pag. 110. that the Apostle doth there intimate the fire of Purgatory Min. Those testimonies of the Fathers which speake of the fire of the day of doome or of Diuine Iudgement which is ignis probaâ—s non purgans these wrangling Sophisters take with the left hand to support the purging and tormenting flames which the bellowes of their superstition hath kindled in the forge of credulity As for this fire here specified h In Locum sermo Christi est saith S. Amb. It is the word of Christ i In Psal 118. Ser. 18.3 opus quod ardere dicitur mala doctrina est The worke which is said to burne is euill doctrine S. Bernard though elsewhere somewhat ouerswayed with the currant of those times is yet content to imforme k Bern. serm de Lig. foen Stipul vs That the bitternesse of the soule the confession of the mouth the punishment of the body which are all in this life are that fire whereby the loose and negligent builder shall bee saued l Lib. 2. aduers Iâ—uin S. Hierome by this fire vnderstandeth the furnace of tentation whereby a man is tried in this life Iab The fathers may somtimes m Pag. 78. bring places of Scripture which haue other sence yea perhaps the sence that one or
other doth giue may not be the best which is to erre according to the Analogy of place not of faith Ma. The Knights answere is not yet refelled If the Doctrine of true faith depend vpon the soliditie of exposition it cannot be but they who may errein the Analogy of exposition of place may likewise faile in the Analogy of faith Laeso fuÌ„damine nutat Tota domâ— Iab This Distinction you n Ibid. vnderstand not when manie Fathers of the Church agree in the same exposition of Scripture without the contradiction of anie the same is to be thought the vndeniable sence of that place Ma. The Doctrine of the Romish Church is far more strict then you seeme to allow If the credit of the Ihesuite Chauasius o Profess orth sid §. 37 may beare any sway you are to stand to that exposition of Scripture and that vpon oath which is Secundum vnanimem consensum Patrum whereas you content your selfe with the agreeable consent of manie p Ad quem ibimus Fathers in the same exposition of Scripture How you will auoid perjurie or what time you had need take to the making of a Sermon following this rule I referre me to your most serious and sober thoughts he had need haue a good Librarie that will auoid the censure of your Church yea he may perchance burne all his bookes before hee shall set them agreed In this point wee will giue allowance to your position hauing produced more demonstratiue authorities for the nullifying then you for the ratifying of Purgatorie I confesse it will bee no easie matter for vs to prooue a contradiction in the exposition of the place especially amongest those who neuer heard of that Commentitious figment for how should they gain say that which was not so much as questioned in the more Ancient times It sufficeth vs that your sence hath no generall iustification in neyther of your grounds which are otherwise interpreted by the most and not peremptorily paraphrased for your purpose by anie of the best ranke Iab Caluins q Pag. 70 Arianizing wit though hee may find some plausible euasion cannot be excused of haereticali call rashnesse who dareth expound this text of Scripture Ego Pater vnum sumus I and the father are one of vnitie of consent and will not of nature and substance adding that the Ancients did abuse the same to proue the consubstantialitie of the Sonne of God Seing the vniforme consent of Fathers haue canonized that meaning of the words he cannot be a true Christian that will not neyther was Caluin that did not submit his Iudgement thereunto Ma. May the Fathers to proue this or that Catholique veritie bring in places of Scripture that haue other sence yea maie the sence that one or other doth giue not bee the best though the Doctrine thereby proued be true then iudge how base and iniurious an imputation you lay vpon Caluin fetching him by force within the compasse of hereticall Arianizme who was euer most aduerse to that viperous brood hauing no other crime to challenge him withall besides a religious modestie in forbearing to rack a parcell of Scripture for the vttering of that euidence which was more naturally deputed to the deliuery of other places The sacred writ is so plentifull in proofes for the confutation of that diuellish surmise that hee held it no good discretion to rayse a suspition of penurie or doubt by insisting vpon that which being not fully pregnant might bee auoided by the indifferent sence of another clause where the same phrase did occurre You may as well challenge Bellarmine Valentianus and other Ihesuites who in their Treatises concerning the Trinitie doe not approoue of manie interpretations of Scripture which were by the Fathers somewhat too liberally produced against the same Heresie of Arianisme As for the place now questioned the judgement of Caluin is that the word vnum cannot absolutely euince an Indiuidual vnitie of Essence because in the seuententh of Iohn vers 22. Christ prayeth vnto his father concerning the elect that they may be one as we are one where the word vnum cannot inforce an vnitie of Essence in respect of the elect and therefore not inferre an Indiuidual vnitie in respect of the father This Inducement of Caluin thus grounded vpon Analogie of Scripture doth at least acquit him from your Taxation of Rashnesse Might it stand with your leasure to peruse his diuers confutations of Arianisme you should find him plentifull in alleadging manie other more direct places to that end Iab Hee cannot bee a true Christian that would not submit his Iudgement to the vniforme consent of the Fathers Ma. This is your vsuall ostentation this is one of the bombasted Articles of your new Romish faith If this may be allowed as the touch stone of Christianitie all the sort of you will soone appeare to bee most professedly periured aboue all other Votaries in the world There are diuers places of Scripture expounded with vniforme consent of Fathers in cases of no small moment which are at this day r D. Mâ—rta de Iurisdict part 4. pag. â—73 Maldon com in Mat. 19. Platin. in Steph. vita rejected by your Church When you pull out this beame of Periurie out of your owne eye you may with better licence point at the mote of Rashnesse which you cast vpon Caluins brow Iab The vniforme consent of Fathers Å¿ Pag. 71 doth not require that euerie one none excepted should expressely teach the same Doctrine for then scarse in anie point could this vniforme consent be proued seeing all write not of the same point but it sufficeth that manie haue taught it without the contradiction of the rest and such is the exposition of this place for Purgatorie and for the dead in the next world Nick. O how curious the Doctor is in his limitations and preuentions hee would haue made a good Lawyer able to set all his neighbours together by the eares Hee is content to chop Logick with you by the clocke but to keepe himselfe from push of Pike he sets a dead hedge and a double quicke set in the way When he boasts of vniforme consent hee meanes not euerie father none excepted when hee speakes of teaching he supposeth it may be collaterally and not expresly Besides he would haue you learne that all who expound the same place doe not write of the same point Nay more if the corruptions of latter times haue put a Quillet vpon any learned mans pen vnlesse it bee contradicted by the writers of former ages who did not so much as suspect any such vnhatched Nouelties it must passe as currant not to be opposed whithout the tincture of heretical rashnesse This I take to be the project of Iabals mazed speech Ma. By my white Staffe the earnest of my neighbours loue and the Ensigne of mine office well noted He would lead vs into a Labyrinth and wot you what the taile of his assertion sauors more of
absurditie then the whole bodie thereof which you haue anatomized viz. Such is the exposition of this place for Purgatorie and for the dead in the next World Such is the exposition of the place so spectrically raysed and so dubitatiuely propounded by the Interpreters themselues and so thwarted by a whole Iurie of Catholike Doctors euen of the Latin Church that it affordeth no setled aboad for his future Remission to repose it selfe Iab S. Chrisostomes exposition is t Non effugient poenam not coÌ„trary to this for first it is not sure certain that vniuersally al such sinners are punished in this world many times they flourish prosper spend their whole liues in great Iollity as diuers persecutors Sodomites Apostates haue done which the Kt. names as sins Irremissible cals their autors sinners in grain Besides sin neuer to be remitted is more then to be punished in this world in the next for as S. August u Pag. 71 saies one may be punished both in this and in the world to come and yet haue his sin forgiuen at last The meaning then of S. Chrisostome is they shall be punished in this world without pardon and in the next world likewise without remission Min. Master Rachil you haue made so worthie a speech that I know not whether I should admire the volubilitie of your tongue the sublimity of your spirit or the quintessence of your witte first because you would haue somewhat to saie you enforme vs that S. Chrisostomes exposition is not contrarie to this where as it was only related as a different sence wherewith you might well haue contented your selfe for asmuch as so worthie a father and so faithfull an Interpreter did therein discouer not so much as a glimpse of forgiuenesse in the after-world which no doubt had it beene so necessarily obuious as you pretend he would in no wise haue omitted Secondly whereas Saint Chrisostome sayth that some capitall Malefactors are both tortured in this life and tormented in the life to come You are so saucie as to instruct him that this is not vniuersally true which if it hold in any as no probabilitie can exempt those Blasphemers in whome our Sauiour instanceth at least x Infidelitas â—psa poena magna est sibâ— Gâ—â— 3. cap. Ioan. from the griping of an vnquiet Conscience the fathers distribution must not bee subject to your checke Thirdly such is your quaint conceit that you taxe him for comming short of our Sauiours sence Sinne neuer to be remitted is more say you then to be punished in this World and in the next which is as much as if you should say Alas good Father Chrisostome where is now thy Eagles eyes wherwith thou wast wont to penetrate the most abstruse mysteries how farre art thou vnlike thy selfe in thy Commentarie vpon this place Shall y Aug. de Ciuit. Dei li. 21. cap. 13 Virgil and Plato by the light of nature find out a Purgatorie and are thy eyes so dimme not to discerne it in this Disiunctiue What will become of z Pag. 72 Etiam in â—ac quidem vita mortali purgatori as poenas essa confitemur Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 21. c. 13. Purgatorie Clemencie if nec in hoc saeculo nec in futuro be thus senced Hadst thou written thus vpon Marke 3.29 a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it had been somewhat tolerable but in ouerslipping such an opportunitie of backing vs in the principall ground of so gainefull a position to say the truth you were not well aduised Thus vnkindly though more couertly doe you handle Saint Chrisostome Nick. Hee makes some part of amends with his new-found distinction The meaning of Saint Chrisostome if his word may bee taken is this They shall bee punished in this World without pardon and in the World to come likewise without remission Ma. I haue read of certaine Marinors who vpon extremitie for want of ropes were faine to shaue a companie of women and make Cordage of their haire To the like exigent is the Doctor driuen For want of better tackling hee hath shaued a bald Fryar to borrow the shreads of a silly Distinction which he hath trimmed without skill and applied without art Nick. What difference is there I pray you betweene Skil and Art Ma. As much as betweene Pardon and Remission The Doctors memorie is answerable to his wit Erewhile hee said It is not sure that vniuersally all such sinnes are punished in this World now he recants saying They shal be punished in this world yea without pardon And to make vp the â—ime he addes In the next likewise without remission as if some sinnes not before forgiuen were then remitted which is the point now in question Is not this a neat Extinguisher Iab The Knight hath a distinction deuised by himself or his Ministers which he opposeth against our Catholike exposition He will grant b Pag. 72. sinnes pardoned in the next world and yet not yeeld one pennie to our Purgatorie boxe In this world sayth hee sinnes are fully pardoned quoad remission is applicationem and the selfe same sinnes shall be pardoned in the next World per Remissionis promulgationem This hee thinkes is the fiue fingers which will carrie â—way the sette from the Fathers Yet I dare say a man that hath beene conuersant in the Scriptures will iudge it no better then Noddie Ma. Quod facis Ingrato perit Your friendly Nod well requites the Knights courtesie His Aduersarie was desirous to conclude out of the former ground that Some sinnes were remitted in the world to come This Sir Edward for quietnesse sake was content to admit with the most fauourable construction hee could possibly finde acknowledging that as sinnes are here loosed by vertue of the Keyes through the particular application of the generall promises So at the restauration of the bodie in the last day the pardon formerly granted shall take full effect through the promulgation of the last joyfull sentence As it is here sealed to the conscience so shall it there be published to the World This he proueth by the rule of contraries the vnbeleeuing Reprobate is c Iohn 3. v. 18. said to be condemned d Per excaecationem vel propter certitudinem Gorran alreadie yet at the time of his dissolution he is awarded his paine nor can it be denied by any one acquainted with the Diuine Oracles but that hee shall receiue a further condemnation at the generall Doome when it shall bee said e Mat. 25.41 Discedite à me Maledicti in ignem aeternum In like manner though the Beleeuer bee here redeemed by the bloud of the immaculate Lambe yet his Sauiour speaking of the last day tels him that his f Luc. 21.28 redemption draweth neare And as Saint Paul sayth g Rom. 8.23 Wee that haue the first fruites of the Spirit doe euen sigh wayting for our adoption euen the Redemption of our bodie Min. The Doctor
vse May not such a Pilot as Dr. Iabal steere their vessells vpon the rockes and sandes how shall they know that this or that is the sence or Tradition of the Catholique church I see no remedy for them but to fly to Socrates Zozomen Eusebius Theodoret and the other Antiquaries for releife and then they must be well skilled in the tongues Nick. Yf there should be a grammar schoole erected for the feminine gender it would be a braue world Iabal would sue for the Vsher-shipp O how featly would he discipline their Albes There would be Tollo tollis sustuli The Girles will neuer consent to so harsh a motion they had rather speake true english at home then make false latin at Schoole vnder such an yll-faced Tutor Iab Had not m Pag. 58. Luther the first fruites of the protestants spirit Yet he erred most grossely that euen Zuinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope doth giue this testimony against him Thou Luther doest corrupt the worde of God thou art seene to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scriptures If he be so corrupt what translation or spirit of your church may your Ladies trust Ma. These are not the first fruites of your witlesse malice neither was Luther the first Coyner of our protestant faith which doth carry the right stampe of the most auncient sacred and primitiue truth Let the Scripture be the arbitrator of his writings then will your slaunder be soone silenced and supprest with shame As he was a man he might be subiect to some particular error which if Zuinglius reproued by warrant of the Scriptures it proceeded from his loue to the truth not out of hatred to his person And haue there not bene worse broyles among your scholasticall Diuines Haue not the positiue Constitutions of former Councells bene repealed by those that succeded Haue not the Popes Decrees bene censured and discarded by their successors Where was your Catholique spirit all that while It is in vaine to looke for a n Foelix qui minimis vrgetur heauen vppon earth Shall the whole fabrick be puld downe because a Wyndowe or a Chimney or a Tyle is misplaced He is a good Architect that leaues nothing to mend Zuinglius his reproofe may informe you that our Church is more deuoted to the Scriptures verity then to the most prime mans authority Iab This is o Pag. 98. 99. the felicity of our Catholike Ladies that by the worde of the Church they know certainlie which is the letter of the scripture Which your Ladyes like stray-sheepe must seeke on the topp of craggy mountaines as the Knight tearmeth the Hebrew language not without eminent daunger of an eternall downefall Nick. Here is a doe with the Ladies falling Yf you were their Gentleman Vsher should they not haue a stout supporter Stand to your tackling good Doctor Iab There is such a Ibid. confusion in your Church that as Irenaeus noted of auncient Heretikes one shall scarce find two that will spell the same sence out of the same wordes Ma. Why hath God giuen such diuersity of guiftes to his Church but that there should be q Quid in diuinis eloquiis largius vberius potuit diuinitus prouideri quam vt eâ—dem verba pluribus inte ligantur modu Aug. de Doct. Chris lib. 3. variety of applications Is not the Kings Daughter in fimbrijs aureis circumamicta r Psal 45.14 varietatibus Clad in a vesture wrought about with diuerse colours If the stuffe be the same t is no great matter though the lace and embrodery be not laid in all alike What contradictions can can you specify in their expositions Iab These foure Å¿ Pag. 99. wordes Hoc est corpus meum contayning not aboue fourteene letters you haue deuised aboue fower times fortie expositions so different as the Authors of the one damne the Fauorers of the other to Hell Ma. A fitt receptacle for all such loud lyars who care not what Crudityes they vomit vppon the bosome of the most eminent and innocent persons without either feare or shame Min. They that are conuersant in the writings of your Catholique Authors know that there is allmost as much difference among them about the three letters of this one sillable Hoc as is amongst the Protestants in the whole sentence Ma. If Mercury himselfe were amongst them with his rodd of truce all his Rhetorique would hardly teach them their t Quid dem quid non dem renuis tu quod iubet alter Concordes Iabal forgets how Leo the second condemned Pope u In Epist ad Imperat. ad fin 6. Synod Honorius for an Heretique Had Zuinglius serued Luthers bookes as Pope x Platina in Sabin Senens lib. 4. pag. 23. Sabinian did the workes of Gregorie his predecessor wee should haue an outcry against fiery spirits then he might more tolerably haue demaunded What shal your poore Ladies do in this combate Iab They may y Pag. 99. rashly perswade themselues that this or that exposition is the best but certaine of any thing they can neuer bee till they admit the Catholike Ladies A.B.C. the Churches authoritie learning of her the sence of whom they tooke the text Nick. When the men of Thessalonica z Act. 17.11 tried the Apostles Doctrine whether it were true or no did they send a Legate to learne the judgement of the Church of Rome Vnto whom did they repaire but vnto a Scrutabantur Scripturas him that had the wordes of life Our Ladies are not so raw in the Scriptures but that if there were such difference amongst our Ministers as you suppose they can take that which doth best agree with the Analogie of Faith and the Rule of Charitie The spirit of God is not so fixed to the Doctors chaire but that it is most free to make euen them of the lowest forme b Super Senes intellexi quia mandata tua quaesiui Psa 119 v. 100. wise vnto saluation Ma. I haue heard a worthie speech of Panormitan often alleaged to this purpose that there is more credit to be giuen to one c Plus credendum viro Laico afferenti Scripturas c. Laick that bringeth Scripture then to a generall Councell representing the vniuersall Church if it haue not the warrant of the word It is not long time since I read how Paphnutius by this meanes preuailed against a whole Synode and stopped the passage of the warrantlesse superstition of single life And not without great reason For if antiquitie be to bee respected or consent to be regarded the Prophets and Apostles haue the superioririe in both Min. Whereas he complaines of confusion and danger of misinterpretation for the magnifying of Tradition he forgets the censure of d Lib. 3. Cap. 2 Irenaeus vpon the prime Heretiques for the same quarrell e Difficilis paucisque conueniens eruditis Aug. aduers Iulian. l. 5. c. 1 Iulian the Pelagian thought by
contrary so it sorteth best with her honour who was the Mother of our Sauiour As for rebaptizing of those who were baptized by o Efficacia Sacramenti est ex institutioni ordinansis non ex sanctitate minâ—strantis Baptismus talis est qualâ—s ille iâ— câ—ius potestate datur non qualiâ— percuius ministerium datur Aug. in Ioh. â— Heretiques we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian yet not because he hath taught it but for that as him selfe saith Ex Euangelio profero certa documenta I haue sure p Eph 4.5 proofes out of the Ghospell Yea he pronounceth a q Cont. lit Petil. lib. 3. ca 6. curse vppon all such as teach any thing either of Christ or his Church or any other matter of faith besides that which is receyued from the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures I once heard a Papist exceedingly puzled with a speeck of his to r Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14. Maximinus Neque ego Synodum Nicaenam nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre Nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum auctoritatibus non quorumcumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione certet Min. Irenaeus Tertullian who had to doe with such refractory Heretiques as either denyed the purity of the Scriptures or traduced the perspicuity of them did both of them appeale to Tradition because they where challenged at that weapon by their aduersaries And by what Compasse did they saile first they proue that alone to be true and authenticall Tradition which was deliuered by Christ to the Apostles and by them to the Church by whome it was successiuely deriued to posterity Secondly they stand for no other Traditions but for the very same articles of faith which were contayned in the written worde Peruse Å¿ Irenae lib. 1. cap. 2.3 lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip haeret both their seuerall and specificall Enumerations of Traditions which the Church hath successiuely continued and you shall find them to iumpe in all respects with the Apostles Creede T is true they might haue proued them before competent Iudges by the authority of Scripture but as the Case stoode the authority of the Church was thought more preualent and the rather that they might shew the harmony thereof with the holy Scriptures Wherefore if you stand for such Traditions as they vrge it is fit your Bill should passe otherwise you must not take it ill if your Grace be stopt Iab Doe but t Pag. 105. read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius who will giue you a newer tune then that you haue piped vnto vs. That Author teacheth that diuerse vnwritten Traditions concerning Doctrine and Manners are in the Church which are not only profitable but in a manner necessary which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the authority of the Church which is very displeasing vnto God Your Dr. Feild grauntes that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written worde if they can proue any such vnwritten verities Ma. Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast your Ecclesiasticall orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead which you will sooner proue to be dreames then Apostolicall Traditions but the very same which Tertullian and Irenaeus haue recorded for such Dr. Feildes If touching the poynt in question carries the sence of an impossible Supposition which we haue reason to suspect till your Purgatory shewe a better pedigree If you can proue this to be one of those vnwritten TraditioÌ„s whereof Zanchius speaketh then we will according to Dr. Feildes aduise not much dissent from your Conclusion till then we must craue pardon Iab The u Pag. 107. places which the Knight alleadgeth to proue the Churches Doctrine in this pointe to be a Sathanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God and euacuating the Crosse of Christ are many but either so triuiall and knowne together with the Catholiques aunsweres or else so ridiculously applied wrung and wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head Nick. Then had you neede of a good head-peice to beare off the weight of the blowe whose sound maketh so great a battery Yet if none but learned mens heads be in daunger of breaking your rough-hewen skonce neede feare the lesse Well seeing my Mr. is arrested for bloud-shed he meanes to aunswere the action vpon Bayle And for want of a better Atorney let me craue a Coppy of your Plea Iab Shall x Pag. 108. I make the Analisis of his Rhetoricall arguments They be three Enthymems I thinke The first The Gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second The scule of Christ went downe to the nethermost hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong man and tooke his Fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish awaye Ma. The argument that once passeth your fingers is not dismissed without a torne fleece but seeing we must take it as you present it let vs heare your exceptions why it should vndergoe so triuiall and ridiculous a censure Iab Can you y Ibid. deny but many of your praedestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Gaoles What shall not Hell-gate preuaile against them shal the wal of a prison mew them vp Hath the soule of Christ gone downe into the nether-most Hell made no passage through Newgates Limbo where sometimes your Elect are kept Hath hee bound the strong man that hee should not harme and shall now a Hangman put them to death You perceiue I hope the vanitie of your Inferences Ma. Hee that lookes vpon them through your spectacles may read Absurdity indeed But that you may know the falsenesse of your Glasse by the mishapen Representation which it giueth to so well a proportioned face you must bee aduertised that the Knights argument was neyther so Wide-mouthed nor so Goggle-eyed as the picture which you haue drawne according to your own Idaea to resemble it He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world according to the intendement of the Scriptures alleaged you wrest it to their corrections in this life which haue their profitable vse His scope looks to the satisfying of Gods Iustice which Christ hath fully accomplished and not to those Chastisements which are as spurres to driue men to lay hold vpon that all-sufficient Sacrifice at which your Squint-eyed supposition doth glance Min. There are sundrie reasons why the Lord suffereth his Elect to vndergoe those bodily penalties First for the manifestation of his owne Iustice Secondly for their Correction humiliation and amendement that their Spirits may bee saued in the day of the Lord Thirdly for the Caution and Example of others Fourthly for the maintenance of publike tranquillitie and politique Societie
of those that were without that their mouthes might be stopped from blaspheming the justice of God Iab I will not b Pag. 119 stand to conuince you out of Scriptures nor out of Fathers only because the Knight stands vpon Athanasius whom he calls his Arbitrator and sayes that he will not affoord vs one sillable to saue our liues his ignorance shall receiue doome by his sentence euen in that verie Treatise Thus he writeth There is great difference betwixt Pennance and Baptisme he that repenteth ceaseth to sinne but still retaineth the c Ergo opera poenitentialia non sunt satisfactoria skars of his wound but he that is baptized putteth off the old man is then renewed from heauen and as it were borne againe by the Spirit of grace Doe you see how manie sillables this Father lendeth vs Ma. They wil scarce make a number I see not so much as a Cipher that can stand in your account He neyther nameth Purgatorie nor anie temporall punishment after the remission of the guilt of sinne Nay he rather seemeth to dash these conceits against the wall For if a man baptized bee renewed from Heauen and retaine no skarres then the plaister of Purgatorie may be cast out vpon the dung-hill as of no vse to those that continually make their repaire by a thirsting faith to those waters of comfort Obserue I pray you how strangely you goe to worke You haue made a great shew of exhorting vs vnto pennance and now you bring in Athanasius affirming that he that repenteth still retaineth the skars of his wound Time was when you could say In this d Pag. 115 penall Martyrdome namely the perpetuall victorie of our selues if you continue vnto death in the true Catholike Church I dare warrant you both from Hell and Purgatorie and grant you an immediate passage vnto Heauen How comes it now to passe that notwithstanding this penall Martyrdome there are skars and woundes still remaining May we be admitted to passe into Heauen immediately without these eye-sores in our soules You should rather for the effectuating of your purpose haue produced Saint e Lib. de poeni Augustines Panigyrick Poenitentia langueres sanat Leprosos curat Mortuos suscitat Or that of f De Laud. poen Cum homo compungitur Peccatum dispungitur Cyprian O poenitentia quid de te noui referam Omnia ligata tu soluis Omnia clausa tu reseras Omnia contrita tusanas Omnia confusa tu lucidas c. You speake of the Skars verie vnseasonably in my mind Min. These Holy Fathers may be easily reconciled Athanasius speakes of Pennance solely considered in it selfe according to the worke wrought and in this sence though a man giue his bodie to bee burned to satisfie for the sinne of his soule the skar of his sinne still remaineth The other two speake of Penance not as it is opposed to Baptisme but as it is conjoyned and made operatiue by the vertue thereof from whence the life and vigour of repentance is deriued So that Athanasius saies well that vnlesse a man be renewed from Heauen and bee borne againe by the Spirit of grace his pennance how great soeuer cannot doe awaie the skarres of his wound Iab I see not g Pag. 120 what else can bee imagined to remaine after pennance and not after Baptisme besides the guilt of temporall paine which wee must willingly vndergoe to satisfie for the sinnes after Baptisme which skars and wounds if we heale not in this life by plaisters of pennance they must bee scared in the next by Purgatorie fire Nick. Then must you bee sure to haue a turne in torrida Zona for Athanasius tels you that notwithstanding your penance you must stil retaine the skarres of your wounds Your better waie were to flie to the waters of Iordan where you shall bee sure to haue your leprosie fully cured then to trust to your owne penall satisfactions Now if you loue mee meddle no more with my Masters Arbitrator if you doe your Combe will be soone cut Ma. T is wel he wil now at length confesse that the guilt of temporall paine remaineth not after Baptisme It is not a quarter of an houre since he was of a contrarie minde Then h Pag. 119 death hunger thirst and other miseries were the penalties of originall sinne forgiuen vnto Christians in Baptisme Now he i Pag. 120 sees not what else can bee imagined to remaine after pennance and not after Baptisme besides the guilt of temporal pain But that the day weares away I would bee bold to aske him this question whether the vertue of Baptisme be not as great throughout the whole life of a Christian as it is at that moment when it is administred I will not so much vnder-value his sinceritie as to feare his deniall I dare say hee will not make the Sacrament of Regeneration lesse beneficiall vnto vs then the Mother Earth was vnto her Sonne Antaeus As oft as hee in the conflict with Hercules touched the earth his strength was renewed and as oft as wee bath our Soules in those medicinable waters by a Religious application of the bloud of Christ we are assured of the remission of our sinnes as well as if wee were at the instant baptized in that purifying Lauer. So that the guilt of temporall paine doth no more remaine after the pious application then it did after the first initiation Christ and his ordinances being the same Yesterday to day and for euer The cause taken away the effect ceaseth Iab This your k Ibid. Logicall Axiome faileth in a thousand examples The Sonne is an effect of the l Causasociata Father Cannot hee liue though his Father bee dead The fire causeth heat yet we see that heat doth remaine long time after the fire is put out That Principle is only true when not only the first being of the effect dependeth on the cause but also the conseruation thereof as the light of the Sunne which the Sunne doth not only bring forth but also conserue vanisheth away together with the same Nick. As I am a true Aristotelian I heard him not speake so wise a word this day The Sonne who is an effect of the Father may liue m Quatenus homo non quatenus filius though his Father bee dead And yet in these dayes filius pendet à patre in esse conseruari or else they would goe for the most part in thred bare coates Min. Wee doubt not but the Axiome admits many exceptions by reason of the diuers properties of causes some being efficient some materiall some formall and some finall Amongst Efficients some permanent some transient some principall some instrumentall some conseruant c. Yet must you not wind away with your Sophistrie There is a certaine Cause called Causa solitaria proxima adaequata of which sort is Sinne in regard of punishment for if the question be why man is punished it cannot possibly