own_o author_n and_o why_o may_v not_o he_o do_v the_o like_a to_o we_o for_o the_o reason_n be_v clean_o different_a they_o have_v no_o public_a authority_n which_o can_v define_v what_o be_v faith_n and_o what_o not_o but_o that_o be_v leave_v not_o only_o to_o every_o private_a doctor_n or_o minister_n but_o to_o every_o private_a lay_v man_n and_o woman_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o convince_a proof_n to_o urge_v one_o particular_a protestant_a doctor_n be_v authority_n against_o another_o there_o be_v not_o two_o among_o they_o of_o one_o opinion_n whole_o much_o less_o one_o bind_v to_o answer_n for_o the_o other_o yet_o we_o be_v fain_o and_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n use_v it_o because_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o may_v urge_v they_o authority_n of_o church_n they_o have_v none_o scripture_n they_o have_v indeed_o but_o so_o mangle_v corrupt_a pervert_v by_o translation_n and_o misinterpret_v according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n that_o as_o they_o have_v it_o it_o be_v as_o good_a as_o nothing_o tradition_n they_o have_v none_o counsel_n they_o have_v not_o any_o among_o themselves_o nor_o will_v stand_v to_o we_o consent_v of_o father_n or_o schoolman_n they_o care_v not_o for_o consent_v of_o doctor_n they_o have_v not_o among_o themselves_o nor_o can_v have_v without_o a_o head_n neither_o if_o they_o have_v will_v any_o man_n think_v himself_o more_o bind_v by_o that_o then_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n what_o then_o be_v leave_v but_o to_o urge_v they_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o such_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v for_o their_o brethren_n but_o with_o we_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a for_o we_o have_v diverse_a infallible_a rule_n of_o faith_n though_o all_o with_o some_o reference_n to_o one_o principal_a rule_n as_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n which_o be_v out_o of_o controversy_n tradition_n or_o common_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n counsel_n either_o general_a or_o particular_a confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a the_o authority_n of_o that_o holy_a see_v itself_o define_v ex_fw-la cathedra_fw-la though_o without_o either_o general_a or_o particular_a council_n the_o common_a and_o uniform_a consent_n of_o ancient_a father_n or_o modern_a doctor_n and_o schoolman_n deliver_v any_o thing_n unto_o we_o as_o matter_n of_o faith_n 15._o all_o these_o six_o rule_n of_o faith_n we_o acknowledge_v wherewith_o let_v this_o knight_n or_o any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n urge_v we_o we_o flinch_v not_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o authority_n but_o be_v ready_a to_o make_v good_a whatsoever_o be_v teach_v any_o of_o these_o way_n what_o folly_n then_o be_v it_o for_o a_o man_n to_o stand_v urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o private_a man_n who_o may_v straggle_v out_o from_o the_o rest_n though_o to_o go_v far_o than_o we_o need_v in_o such_o great_a liberty_n as_o we_o give_v protestant_n we_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o single_a doctor_n in_o a_o point_n wherein_o he_o be_v not_o contradict_v by_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n or_o which_o other_o catholic_n do_v not_o whole_o disavow_v what_o more_o can_v a_o man_n desire_n and_o yet_o again_o though_o the_o knight_n or_o any_o other_o protestant_n shall_v bring_v such_o a_o single_a author_n for_o his_o opinion_n yet_o be_v there_o such_o a_o main_a difference_n between_o he_o and_o they_o that_o no_o protestant_n can_v just_o plead_v that_o single_a catholic_a author_n to_o be_v whole_o of_o his_o opinion_n or_o belief_n in_o that_o point_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o other_o wherein_o they_o differ_v for_o the_o protestant_n hold_v his_o doctrine_n stiff_o not_o mean_v in_o any_o case_n or_o for_o any_o authority_n to_o change_v or_o leave_v it_o which_o be_v it_o that_o that_o make_v a_o man_n proper_o a_o haeretique_n whereas_o the_o catholic_a ever_o hold_v it_o with_o indifferency_n ready_a to_o leave_v it_o whensoever_o the_o catholic_a church_n shall_v determine_v otherwise_o which_o if_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v be_v but_o content_a to_o do_v we_o will_v bear_v with_o all_o his_o error_n because_o than_o they_o will_v be_v soon_o amend_v what_o little_a help_n than_o be_v he_o like_v to_o have_v from_o catholic_a author_n or_o what_o likelihood_n be_v there_o for_o he_o to_o make_v good_a his_o paradox_n or_o rather_o his_o most_o absurd_a heresy_n out_o of_o our_o own_o cardinal_n bishop_n doctor_n schoolman_n etc._n etc._n who_o he_o put_v all_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n as_o if_o the_o number_n be_v to_o be_v very_o great_a whereas_o god_n know_v they_o come_v very_o poor_a and_o single_a as_o shall_v appear_v and_o some_o be_v cardinal_n of_o his_o own_o create_v only_o as_o i_o shall_v after_o show_v but_o this_o he_o do_v for_o credit_n of_o his_o cause_n though_o it_o be_v with_o loss_n of_o his_o own_o 16._o and_o all_o this_o which_o here_o i_o say_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v suppose_v that_o indeed_o he_o cite_v catholic_a author_n and_o cite_v they_o true_o as_o here_o he_o promise_v which_o promise_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v true_a cite_n how_o he_o perform_v i_o shall_v afterward_o make_v manifest_a here_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v a_o word_n concern_v his_o author_n who_o he_o promise_v we_o shall_v be_v catholic_n whereas_o indeed_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o be_v either_o know_v haeretique_n or_o some_o such_o man_n as_o though_o with_o much_o ado_n they_o may_v pass_v for_o catholic_n as_o erasmus_n cornelius_n agrippa_n cassander_n and_o the_o like_a yet_o they_o give_v themselves_o so_o much_o liberty_n in_o they_o writing_n as_o they_o come_v to_o be_v note_v for_o it_o and_o their_o work_n forbid_v of_o which_o i_o will_v not_o therefore_o make_v any_o account_n as_o no_o other_o catholic_n do_v but_o when_o i_o come_v to_o such_o authoritye_n as_o there_o be_v many_o in_o this_o book_n i_o mean_v to_o make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o the_o author_n be_v condemn_v or_o book_n forbid_v in_o the_o index_n librorum_fw-la prohibitorum_fw-la the_o table_n of_o forbid_a book_n wherein_o i_o can_v but_o note_v sir_n humphrey_n ill_a favour_v and_o dishonest_a deal_n in_o pretend_v to_o cite_v only_o our_o own_o doctor_n and_o schoolman_n and_o yet_o afterward_o obtrude_a such_o as_o he_o know_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o so_o main_n exception_n and_o so_o to_o be_v by_o we_o disavow_v and_o reject_v as_o incompetent_a judge_n or_o witness_n 17._o but_o there_o be_v no_o other_o to_o be_v expect_v at_o such_o a_o man_n hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o will_v neither_o look_v for_o better_a nor_o say_v more_o of_o it_o but_o by_o this_o occasion_n add_v a_o word_n or_o two_o concern_v the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la which_o so_o much_o trouble_v the_o conscience_n of_o these_o man_n which_o be_v right_o understand_v no_o man_n of_o reason_n and_o judgement_n can_v be_v offend_v with_o it_o for_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o continuance_n of_o the_o same_o care_n which_o have_v be_v ever_o observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n for_o preserve_v of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o integrity_n of_o life_n from_o the_o corruption_n of_o haeretique_n and_o other_o wicked_a man_n who_o by_o book_n bring_v great_a prejudice_n both_o to_o faith_n and_o manner_n unless_o special_a care_n be_v use_v for_o praevent_v thereof_o of_o the_o necessity_n and_o justness_n of_o which_o course_n there_o be_v whole_a book_n write_v by_o diverse_a learned_a catholic_a doctor_n neither_o can_v any_o body_n dislike_v thereof_o but_o only_a haeretique_n who_o indeed_o find_v themselves_o mighty_o aggreive_v therewith_o as_o be_v by_o this_o course_n deprive_v of_o a_o chief_a mean_n of_o spread_v their_o wicked_a doctrine_n by_o book_n though_o indeed_o they_o have_v no_o more_o cause_n to_o complain_v then_o necromancer_n judiciary_n astrologer_n soothsayer_n witch_n magician_n and_o even_o bad_a catholic_n who_o publish_v naughty_a and_o lascivious_a book_n for_o this_o care_n of_o the_o church_n do_v extend_v to_o all_o whatsoever_o may_v be_v offensive_a or_o hurtful_a either_o to_o faith_n or_o good_a manner_n 18._o but_o because_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v needs_o have_v it_o that_o the_o bible_n be_v also_o forbid_a and_o the_o father_n writing_n appoint_v to_o be_v correct_v and_o raze_v i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o bible_n indeed_o it_o be_v not_o permit_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n to_o every_o body_n without_o any_o regard_n or_o distinction_n of_o person_n as_o it_o never_o be_v nor_o aught_o to_o be_v as_o be_v well_o prove_v by_o authority_n of_o father_n and_o reason_n in_o the_o preface_n of_o the_o rheims_n testament_n but_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o forbid_v but_o that_o it_o
gospel_n be_v rather_o to_o be_v have_v by_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_v of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n and_o prove_v it_o by_o this_o that_o if_o we_o lie_v aside_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o use_n of_o the_o church_n no_o man_n can_v be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o any_o priest_n now_o in_o these_o time_n do_v consecrate_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o same_o that_o he_o say_v after_o in_o other_o word_n in_o nostra_fw-la missa_fw-la in_o our_o mass_n that_o be_v mass_n in_o these_o time_n not_o say_v he_o that_o this_o matter_n be_v now_o doubtful_a but_o that_o the_o certainty_n thereof_o be_v have_v not_o so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_n of_o so_o long_a time_n which_o they_o have_v leave_v to_o posterity_n for_o say_v he_o again_o though_o christ_n of_o bread_n make_v his_o body_n and_o of_o wine_n his_o blood_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v by_o force_n of_o any_o word_n there_o set_v down_o that_o we_o as_o often_o as_o we_o shall_v attempt_v any_o such_o thing_n shall_v do_v it_o which_o unless_o it_o be_v so_o say_v we_o can_v he_o certain_v thereof_o these_o be_v his_o very_a word_n where_o you_o see_v how_o together_o he_o deliver_v two_o point_n of_o catholic_a doctrine_n the_o one_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o other_o of_o tradition_n for_o understanding_n of_o the_o scripture_n neither_o do_v he_o say_v that_o the_o real_a presence_n in_o our_o mass_n now_o a_o day_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n but_o not_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o without_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n which_o we_o acknowledge_v general_o necessary_a in_o the_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n neither_o do_v you_o therefore_o right_o argue_v the_o real_a presence_n be_v not_o prove_v so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n as_o out_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la not_o out_o of_o scripture_n this_o i_o say_v be_v a_o idle_a argument_n for_o the_o father_n interpretation_n &_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n do_v but_o deliver_v we_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n 17._o what_o then_o have_v you_o here_o out_o of_o bishop_n fisher_n to_o prove_v any_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n not_o one_o word_n for_o if_o his_o word_n do_v prove_v any_o thing_n they_o shall_v prove_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n not_o against_o transubstantiation_n which_o be_v your_o controversy_n and_o for_o those_o other_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o this_o same_o holy_a bishop_n and_o martyr_n for_o a_o conclusion_n thus_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturam_fw-la probari_fw-la it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n they_o discover_v your_o dishonesty_n most_o of_o all_o for_o by_o break_v of_o the_o sentence_n there_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n believe_v they_o have_v relation_n to_o the_o word_n next_o before_o by_o you_o cite_v as_o if_o the_o bishop_n do_v say_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a in_o our_o mass_n whereas_o there_o be_v a_o whole_a leaf_n between_o these_o two_o place_n but_o the_o only_a bare_a recital_n of_o the_o bishop_n word_n shall_v serve_v for_o a_o confutation_n which_o be_v these_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturan_n probari_fw-la quod_fw-la aut_fw-la laicus_fw-la aut_fw-la sacerdos_n quoties_fw-la id_fw-la negotij_fw-la tentaverit_fw-la pari_fw-la modo_fw-la conficiet_fw-la ex_fw-la pane_fw-la vinoque_fw-la christi_fw-la corpus_fw-la &_o sanguinem_fw-la atque_fw-la christus_fw-la ipse_fw-la confecit_fw-la quum_fw-la necâ—stud_fw-la in_o scripture_n contineatur_fw-la it_o can_v therefore_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o either_o lay_v man_n or_o priest_n as_o often_o as_o he_o shall_v go_v about_o that_o business_n shall_v in_o like_a manner_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n make_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n as_o christ_n himself_o do_v see_v that_o neither_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o his_o drift_n be_v only_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a word_n in_o scripture_n whereby_o it_o be_v promise_v that_o either_o priest_n or_o lay_v man_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o consecrate_v &_o that_o though_o christ_n do_v himself_o consecrate_v &_o command_v his_o apostle_n so_o to_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o that_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o add_v any_o express_a promise_n that_o the_o same_o effect_n shall_v always_o follow_v whensoever_o any_o man_n shall_v offer_v to_o consecrate_v which_o be_v not_o against_o us._n for_o we_o gather_v that_o power_n to_o pertain_v to_o the_o apostle_n successor_n in_o priesthood_n out_o of_o the_o word_n 1._o council_n trid._n sess_n 22._o q._n 1._o hoc_fw-la facite_fw-la in_o meam_fw-la commemorationem_fw-la not_o bare_o but_o as_o they_o have_v be_v ever_o understand_v by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v against_o we_o that_o we_o may_v rather_o urge_v it_o against_o you_o upon_o the_o same_o occasion_n that_o bishop_n fisher_n do_v to_o wit_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o tradition_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n and_o so_o by_o this_o it_o be_v manifest_v how_o much_o you_o have_v abuse_v this_o holy_a bishop_n meaning_n as_o you_o do_v other_o two_o bishop_n that_o follow_v 18._o the_o one_o be_v gul._n durandus_fw-la bishop_n of_o mand_v out_o of_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o will_v prove_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o to_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n of_o this_o sacrament_n for_o what_o else_o you_o will_v have_v with_o he_o i_o see_v not_o but_o special_o because_o have_v cite_v he_o thus_o in_o english_a christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n by_o his_o heavenly_a benediction_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o word_n the_o bread_n be_v turn_v unto_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n then_o you_o put_v these_o word_n in_o latin_a tunc_fw-la confecit_fw-la cum_fw-la benedixit_fw-la they_o he_o make_v it_o when_o he_o bless_v it_o whereby_o you_o seem_v to_o put_v the_o force_n of_o this_o testimony_n in_o those_o word_n as_o if_o by_o they_o you_o will_v prove_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la that_o christ_n do_v not_o consecrate_v by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o that_o blessing_n but_o durand_n himself_o shall_v disprove_v you_o sir_n knight_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v benedixit_fw-la benedictione_n caelesti_fw-la &_o virtute_fw-la verbi_fw-la qua_fw-la convertitur_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la to_o wit_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la he_o bless_v it_o by_o the_o heavenly_a blessing_n and_o power_n of_o the_o word_n by_o which_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n 14._o durand_n rat_n cap._n 41._o n._n 14._o to_o wit_n this_o be_v my_o body_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la which_o last_o word_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v sir_n humphrey_n why_o you_o cut_v of_o but_o i_o need_v not_o ask_v for_o any_o man_n may_v see_v it_o be_v because_o you_o will_v not_o have_v that_o powerful_a benediction_n whereof_o this_o author_n speak_v to_o consist_v in_o those_o sacred_a word_n but_o durand_n both_o in_o this_o very_a sentence_n and_o often_o in_o the_o same_o place_n attribute_v most_o plain_o that_o power_n to_o those_o very_a word_n not_o to_o any_o other_o blessing_n as_o may_v appear_v in_o that_o he_o say_v that_o we_o do_v bless_v ex_fw-la illa_fw-la virtute_fw-la quam_fw-la christus_fw-la indidit_fw-la verbis_fw-la by_o that_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o word_n 19_o odo_n caemeracensis_n be_v the_o other_o bishop_n that_o follow_v who_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o cite_v and_o as_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n his_o word_n be_v these_o as_o you_o bring_v they_o christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n and_o then_o make_v that_o his_o body_n which_o be_v first_o bread_n and_o so_o by_o blessing_n it_o become_v flesh_n for_o otherwise_o he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v after_o he_o have_v bless_v it_o this_o be_v my_o body_n unless_o by_o blessing_n it_o he_o have_v make_v it_o his_o body_n which_o word_n you_o put_v in_o the_o margin_n in_o latin_a imperfect_o and_o translate_v even_o they_o corrupt_o benedixit_fw-la suum_fw-la corpus_fw-la you_o translate_v christ_n bless_v bread_n qui_fw-la priùs_fw-la erat_fw-la panis_fw-la benedictione_n factus_fw-la est_fw-la caro_fw-la which_o in_o true_a english_a be_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o by_o blessing_n be_v make_v flesh_n you_o translate_v otherwise_o as_o may_v appear_v by_o your_o word_n though_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o end_n you_o shall_v so_o
brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n etc._n etc._n for_o this_o be_v your_o faith_n proper_o as_o you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n or_o church_n show_v your_o doctrine_n in_o all_o these_o point_n that_o be_v your_o denial_n of_o they_o to_o have_v be_v ancient_o and_o universal_o teach_v or_o even_o before_o luther_n time_n and_o you_o have_v say_v something_o which_o you_o not_o do_v i_o can_v but_o wonder_v to_o see_v you_o so_o silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o use_v your_o own_o word_n as_o to_o think_v you_o have_v say_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n we_o ask_v you_o the_o antiquity_n of_o your_o doctrine_n that_o be_v wherein_o you_o disagree_v from_o we_o and_o you_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o so_o much_o as_o agree_v with_o we_o which_o be_v to_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o own_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o shape_n yourselves_o a_o religion_n out_o of_o we_o and_o you_o plead_v the_o antiquity_n of_o we_o but_o that_o will_v not_o serve_v your_o turn_n that_o shape_n which_o you_o give_v it_o be_v the_o form_n and_o essence_n of_o your_o religion_n so_o long_o then_o as_o that_o be_v new_a your_o religion_n be_v new_a neither_o can_v you_o say_v the_o same_o of_o our_o point_n define_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v by_o ask_v where_o our_o church_n wasâ—_n where_o our_o trent_n doctrine_n and_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a creed_n be_v receive_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la before_o luther_n this_o you_o can_v likewise_o say_v to_o we_o for_o the_o define_n make_v not_o the_o doctrine_n new_a but_o bind_v man_n by_o authority_n of_o a_o council_n to_o believe_v what_o they_o do_v believe_v plain_o by_o tradition_n 32._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 32._o as_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v that_o the_o church_n by_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o counsel_n have_v do_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o what_o she_o have_v before_o receive_v by_o tradition_n only_o she_o shall_v also_o by_o writing_n consign_v to_o posterity_n nec_fw-la quicquam_fw-la conciliorum_fw-la suorum_fw-la decretis_fw-la catholica_fw-la perfecit_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la nisi_fw-la ut_fw-la quod_fw-la prius_fw-la a_o majoribus_fw-la sola_fw-la traditione_n susceperat_fw-la hoc_fw-la deinde_fw-la posteris_fw-la etiam_fw-la per_fw-la scripturae_fw-la chirographum_fw-la consignaret_fw-la of_o which_o see_v more_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n here_o 19_o after_o this_o you_o ask_v again_o if_o your_o doctrine_n lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o say_v you_o no_o romanist_n can_v deny_v if_o it_o become_v hide_v as_o good_a corn_n cover_v with_o chaff_n or_o as_o fine_a gold_n overlay_v with_o a_o great_a quantity_n of_o dross_n whether_o it_o must_v be_v therefore_o new_a and_o unknown_a because_o the_o corn_n be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n the_o gold_n from_o the_o dross_n before_o luther_n time_n and_o than_o you_o bid_v we_o because_o we_o call_v your_o doctrine_n novelty_n to_o remove_v the_o three_o creed_n the_o two_o sacrament_n the_o 22._o canonical_a book_n the_o 4._o first_o general_n counsel_n apostolical_a tradition_n and_o see_v whether_o our_o church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o poor_a and_o senseless_a carcase_n this_o be_v your_o learned_a discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v ask_v first_n what_o romanist_n do_v acknowledge_v your_o doctrine_n to_o have_v lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v ever_o any_o man_n write_v so_o do_v ever_o any_o man_n say_v so_o unto_o you_o nay_o what_o romanist_n have_v ever_o forbear_v upon_o occasion_n offer_v to_o deny_v and_o deny_v it_o again_o you_o teach_v not_o only_o those_o be_v two_o but_o that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n which_o what_o romanist_n ever_o acknowledge_v to_o have_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n one_o of_o your_o sacrament_n be_v a_o empty_a piece_n of_o bread_n and_o a_o sup_v of_o wine_n which_o what_o catholic_n will_v ever_o say_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n you_o allow_v 4._o counsel_n and_o but_o 4._o you_o allow_v 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o but_o 22._o will_n any_o catholic_a ever_o allow_v this_o to_o have_v be_v catholic_a doctrine_n take_v away_o your_o yet_o and_o then_o it_o may_v pass_v but_o than_o you_o take_v away_o your_o religion_n but_o here_o be_v one_o thing_n that_o give_v i_o much_o cause_n of_o wonder_n which_o be_v that_o you_o talk_v of_o tradition_n as_o distinct_a from_o scripture_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n that_o i_o do_v little_o expect_v from_o a_o man_n of_o your_o profession_n and_o i_o ever_o take_v you_o to_o be_v so_o fall_v out_o with_o they_o that_o you_o make_v the_o denial_n of_o they_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o your_o religion_n and_o that_o therefore_o you_o will_v not_o endure_v the_o word_n tradition_n even_o in_o holy_a scripture_n where_o it_o may_v be_v take_v in_o a_o good_a sense_n but_o always_o translate_v or_o rather_o falsify_v it_o into_o ordinance_n though_o both_o the_o latin_a and_o greek_a word_n do_v signify_v tradition_n most_o express_o but_o this_o your_o allow_v of_o tradition_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n that_o i_o reprehend_v in_o you_o though_o some_o puritan_n minister_n may_v perhaps_o not_o let_v you_o pass_v so_o gentle_o with_o it_o but_o that_o that_o follow_v to_o wit_n that_o you_o shall_v be_v so_o unaduised_a as_o to_o acknowledge_v your_o church_n or_o doctrine_n which_o you_o simple_o and_o confuse_o take_v for_o the_o same_o be_v very_o different_a as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v to_o have_v be_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o to_o have_v become_v hide_v like_o good_a corn_n cover_v with_o chaff_n and_o like_o gold_n cover_v with_o dross_n till_o luther_n time_n and_o yet_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v visible_a before_o that_o time_n be_v the_o corn_n see_v when_o it_o be_v cover_v with_o chaff_n the_o gold_n when_o it_o be_v cover_v with_o dross_n 20._o answ_n to_o cook_n rep_v ep_v dedicat_fw-la nu_fw-la 20._o 20._o my_o lord_n cook_n show_v himself_o somewhat_o wise_a when_o ask_v himself_o the_o question_n which_o we_o ask_v you_o to_o wit_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n he_o answer_v it_o make_v no_o great_a matter_n where_o it_o be_v so_o he_o be_v certain_a it_o be_v confess_v thereby_o that_o his_o church_n be_v indeed_o invisible_a but_o yet_o in_o be_v which_o because_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o persuade_v any_o man_n he_o bring_v a_o fine_a similitude_n of_o a_o wedge_n of_o gold_n dissolve_v and_o mix_v with_o brass_n tin_n and_o other_o metal_n which_o he_o say_v do_v not_o therefore_o loose_v his_o nature_n but_o remain_v gold_n though_o we_o can_v not_o determine_v in_o what_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n it_o be_v contain_v this_o be_v somewhat_o more_o like_a for_o a_o man_n by_o such_o a_o similitude_n to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o church_n may_v subsist_v invisible_o for_o the_o which_o nevertheless_o a_o catholic_a divine_a tell_v he_o his_o own_o very_o sound_o but_o for_o you_o sir_n knight_n to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n by_o such_o a_o similitude_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v believe_v unless_o a_o man_n do_v see_v it_o in_o print_n you_o labour_v to_o prove_v your_o church_n to_o have_v be_v visible_a before_o luther_n time_n and_o yet_o you_o confess_v she_o to_o have_v begin_v her_o visibility_n by_o luther_n for_o thus_o you_o ask_v be_v there_o no_o good_a corn_n in_o the_o granary_n of_o the_o church_n because_o for_o many_o year_n space_n till_o luther_n day_n it_o be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n to_o sever_v the_o corn_n from_o the_o chaff_n wherewith_o it_o be_v cover_v be_v to_o make_v it_o visible_a if_o then_o luther_n do_v first_o sever_v it_o he_o
thus_o scotus_n not_o only_o teach_v transubstantiation_n himself_o but_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o make_v most_o frequent_a mention_n of_o the_o change_n and_o conversion_n of_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o scotus_n must_v have_v hold_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o substance_n thereof_o to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o s._n ambrose_n at_o the_o least_o and_o if_o so_o ancient_a then_o even_o from_o the_o beginning_n his_o meaning_n therefore_o in_o say_v it_o be_v determine_v of_o late_a in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n be_v only_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o bless_a sauiour_n body_n either_o by_o transubstantiation_n that_o be_v by_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n or_o otherwise_o so_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v remain_v the_o church_n have_v determine_v that_o the_o word_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o former_a sense_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v by_o his_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n expound_v of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v she_o do_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n wherewith_o the_o faith_n be_v deliver_v to_o we_o to_o wit_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n 11.9.3_o v._o scot._n in_o 4._o sent._n do_v 11.9.3_o which_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o though_o it_o be_v also_o the_o common_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o beginning_n yet_o it_o may_v well_o be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v be_v de_fw-fr substantia_fw-la fidei_fw-la yribarne_n speak_v because_o it_o have_v not_o be_v so_o plain_o deliver_v nor_o determine_v in_o any_o council_n till_o greg._n the_o 7._o his_o time_n wherein_o it_o be_v first_o define_v against_o berengarius_fw-la and_o that_o but_o by_o a_o particular_a or_o provincial_a roman_a council_n which_o notwithstanding_o the_o article_n in_o itself_o may_v be_v ancient_a though_o not_o so_o express_o deliver_v as_o i_o declare_v more_o ample_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n 25._o you_o have_v little_a help_n then_o sir_n humphrey_n from_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n scotus_n and_o yribarne_v which_o although_o you_o have_v yet_o be_v not_o that_o sufficient_a for_o discharge_v of_o your_o credit_n you_o have_v promise_v we_o acient_a father_n against_o transubstantiation_n which_o these_o three_o be_v not_o for_o one_o of_o they_o to_o wit_n yribarne_n be_v perhaps_o now_o alive_a another_o to_o wit_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n live_v not_o pass_v 100_o year_n ago_o the_o three_o to_o wit_n scotus_n about_o 300._o year_n since_o which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o father_n as_o we_o ordinary_o speak_v of_o they_o wherefore_o bethink_v yourself_o at_o last_o you_o bring_v we_o a_o father_n or_o two_o to_o wit_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n tell_v we_o that_o s._n aug._n be_v so_o whole_o you_o that_o maldonat_n expound_v a_o place_n in_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n say_v that_o he_o be_v persuade_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n and_o see_v that_o caluin_n expound_v the_o same_o place_n as_o he_o do_v he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o mind_n and_o for_o theodoret_n you_o say_v that_o valentia_n observe_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o consecrate_a element_n do_v remain_v in_o their_o proper_a substance_n and_o shape_n and_o figure_n he_o make_v the_o like_a answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o one_o or_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n before_o the_o question_n be_v debate_v do_v think_v less_o considerate_o and_o true_o of_o transubstantiation_n this_o be_v all_o that_o ever_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o much_o to_o your_o shame_n shall_v upon_o examination_n appear_v io._n aug_n er_fw-mi 26._o in_o io._n 26._o for_o s._n augustine_n then_o what_o be_v it_o that_o he_o say_v in_o favour_n of_o you_o in_o expound_v that_o verse_n of_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n where_o our_o saviour_n say_v your_o father_n have_v eat_v manna_n and_o be_v dead_a he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o their_o father_n that_o be_v the_o naughty_a and_o unbelieve_a people_n of_o the_o jew_n die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o in_o their_o soul_n because_o they_o in_o eat_v manna_n do_v consider_v only_o what_o it_o present_v to_o their_o outward_a sense_n and_o not_o what_o it_o represent_v unto_o their_o mind_n by_o faith_n whereas_o the_o good_a man_n among_o they_o as_o moses_n aaron_n phinees_n and_o other_o who_o he_o say_v be_v our_o father_n and_o not_o they_o do_v not_o die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o because_o they_o do_v not_o consider_v it_o only_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n but_o according_a to_o faith_n remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o figure_n and_o a_o figure_n of_o this_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o we_o have_v as_o the_o same_o holy_a father_n say_v express_o in_o the_o same_o place_n hunc_fw-la panem_fw-la significavit_fw-la manna_n manna_n signify_v this_o bread_n and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o judas_n and_o other_o bad_a christian_n which_o receive_v of_o the_o altar_n and_o by_o receive_v die_v because_o they_o receive_v it_o ill_o do_v not_o this_o make_n much_o for_o you_o now_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o see_v how_o whole_o s._n aug._n be_v you_o how_o he_o say_v that_o manna_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o this_o our_o heavenly_a bread_n that_o we_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o altar_n do_v not_o all_o this_o make_v fine_o for_o you_o but_o you_o will_v say_v then_o if_o it_o make_v nothing_o for_o we_o why_o do_v maldonate_fw-it say_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n he_o will_v have_v interpret_v otherwise_o i_o answer_v not_o that_o this_o interpretation_n be_v for_o you_o but_o because_o the_o other_o be_v more_o against_o you_o to_o wit_n thus_o whereas_o s._n augustine_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o they_o that_o do_v eat_v manna_n die_v to_o be_v because_o they_o do_v not_o eat_v it_o with_o faith_n maldonate_fw-it make_v the_o difference_n to_o be_v not_o so_o much_o between_o the_o person_n which_o do_v eat_v as_o between_o the_o food_n which_o they_o do_v eat_v say_v that_o our_o saviour_n make_v this_o a_o special_a prerogative_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n far_o above_o the_o manna_n that_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n give_v life_n to_o they_o that_o eat_v it_o which_o the_o manna_n do_v not_o give_v of_o itself_o and_o indeed_o with_o dew_n reverence_n be_v it_o speak_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n this_o interpretation_n be_v more_o suitable_a to_o the_o text_n and_o discourse_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o that_o whole_a chapter_n which_o be_v to_o compare_v and_o prefer_v that_o true_a bread_n which_o he_o say_v his_o heavenly_a father_n do_v give_v before_o that_o of_o manna_n which_o moses_n give_v their_o father_n it_o be_v more_o also_o against_o the_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n in_o regard_n it_o be_v more_o for_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n which_o they_o labour_v might_n &_o main_a to_o depress_v and_o that_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o caluin_n rather_o follow_v the_o former_a interpretation_n not_o for_o any_o love_n to_o truth_n or_o reverence_v which_o he_o bear_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n 27._o how_o false_a then_o and_o absurd_a be_v that_o scoff_a speech_n of_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o the_o next_o leaf_n of_o your_o book_n where_o you_o say_v ironical_o thus_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o corporal_a presence_n for_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o these_o day_n as_o if_o forsooth_o maldonate_fw-it do_v say_n that_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n concern_v the_o same_o if_o he_o have_v live_v now_o in_o these_o time_n you_o hereby_o insinuate_v as_o if_o s._n augustine_n think_v otherwise_o thereof_o then_o we_o now_o teach_v but_o how_o gross_o false_a this_o be_v may_v appear_v plain_o by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n whereof_o either_o s._n aug._n or_o maldonate_fw-it speak_v but_o how_o they_o that_o eat_v manna_n have_v dye_v and_o they_o that_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v live_v according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n which_o be_v clean_o a_o different_a thing_n wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v line_v s._n aug._n somewhat_o but_o maldonate_fw-it you_o be_v line_v much_o more_o by_o make_v as_o if_o he_o acknowledge_v s._n augustine_n to_o be_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v
not_o in_o a_o proper_a and_o strict_a but_o a_o large_a sense_n only_o wherein_o as_o i_o agree_v with_o he_o for_o so_o much_o as_o perteyn_v to_o the_o wash_n itself_o so_o do_v i_o think_v that_o if_o a_o man_n read_v the_o place_n attentive_o he_o shall_v find_v that_o author_n by_o that_o wash_n to_o mean_a the_o sacrament_n of_o penance_n in_o a_o strict_a and_o proper_a sense_n for_o he_o give_v unto_o it_o the_o same_o power_n of_o remit_v of_o sin_n as_o to_o baptism_n he_o say_v it_o be_v institute_v for_o such_o sin_n as_o man_n shall_v fall_v into_o after_o baptism_n which_o he_o say_v can_v be_v iterate_v which_o be_v the_o proper_a attribute_n which_o we_o teach_v to_o belong_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o penance_n whereof_o that_o author_n make_v a_o long_a discourse_n i_o cite_v only_o these_o word_n follow_v for_o a_o sign_n of_o his_o meaning_n propter_fw-la hoc_fw-la benignissime_fw-la domine_fw-la pedes_fw-la lavas_fw-la discipulis_fw-la quia_fw-la post_fw-la baptismum_fw-la quem_fw-la svi_fw-la reverentia_fw-la iterari_fw-la non_fw-la patitur_fw-la aliud_fw-la lavacrum_fw-la procurasti_fw-la quod_fw-la nunquam_fw-la debeat_fw-la intermitti_fw-la for_o this_o most_o benign_a lord_n thou_o do_v wash_v thy_o disciple_n foot_n because_o after_o baptism_n which_o may_v not_o be_v iterate_v for_o reverence_n thereof_o thou_o hat_n procure_v another_o laver_n which_o must_v never_o be_v intermit_v by_o which_o it_o seem_v plain_a he_o do_v not_o mean_a that_o that_o wash_n be_v a_o proper_a sacrament_n itself_o but_o that_o it_o do_v signify_v another_o thing_n which_o be_v to_o take_v away_o sin_n after_o baptism_n which_o be_v to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n because_o it_o be_v to_o be_v institute_v by_o our_o saviour_n it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o laver_n and_o to_o have_v like_o force_n as_o baptism_n all_o which_o show_v it_o to_o be_v a_o true_a sacrament_n 13._o beside_o s._n cyprian_n you_o will_v needs_o bring_v s._n isidore_n with_o in_o compass_n of_o the_o curse_n for_o say_v you_o he_o account_v of_o 3._o sacrament_n to_o wit_n baptism_n chrism_n and_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n cite_v his_o 6._o book_n of_o etymology_n chap._n 18._o wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n according_a to_o your_o usual_a custom_n you_o do_v notable_o abuse_v this_o holy_a father_n for_o in_o that_o place_n he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o intend_v to_o speak_v of_o any_o sacrament_n at_o all_o but_o his_o only_a intent_n be_v to_o treat_v of_o the_o name_n of_o certain_a feast_n as_o the_o title_n of_o the_o chapter_n show_v which_o be_v this_o de_fw-fr festivitatibus_fw-la &_o eorum_fw-la nominibus_fw-la of_o feast_n and_o their_o name_n among_o which_o he_o put_v coena_fw-la dominica_n our_o lord_n supper_n which_o say_v he_o be_v so_o call_v because_o upon_o that_o day_n our_o saviour_n do_v make_v the_o pasch_fw-mi with_o his_o disciple_n which_o be_v celebrate_v even_o to_o this_o day_n as_o have_v be_v deliver_v &_o the_o holy_a chrism_n be_v make_v therein_o these_o be_v s._n isidor_n very_a word_n neither_o have_v he_o one_o word_n more_o in_o all_o the_o chapter_n of_o any_o sacrament_n where_o then_o be_v there_o any_o mention_n of_o baptism_n nay_o where_o be_v there_o any_o mention_n of_o our_o sauiour_n institution_n or_o celebration_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n but_o only_o that_o s._n isidore_n say_v that_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o pasch_fw-mi be_v observe_v to_o this_o day_n which_o because_o it_o can_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o paschal_n lamb_n give_v we_o cause_n to_o think_v that_o by_o our_o sauiour_n celebration_n of_o the_o paschal_n he_o understand_v the_o institution_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n which_o be_v now_o daily_o commemorate_a in_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n the_o chief_a or_o most_o clear_a mention_n here_o be_v of_o confirmation_n by_o the_o name_n of_o chrism_n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o signify_v by_o ancient_a author_n but_o all_o this_o that_o be_v say_v be_v not_o say_v by_o way_n of_o deliver_v any_o doctrine_n concern_v sacrament_n but_o as_o they_o have_v relation_n to_o such_o a_o feast_n be_v not_o this_o them_z a_o notorious_a abuse_n of_o s._n isidor_n authority_n but_o because_o you_o shall_v see_v plain_o that_o if_o he_o accidental_o or_o for_o some_o special_a reason_n make_v mention_n of_o those_o 3._o sacrament_n as_o it_o be_v like_a he_o may_v do_v as_o other_o father_n 19_o isid_n de_fw-fr offi_n eccles_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 16._o &_o cap._n 23._o cap._n 19_o be_v also_o wont_a that_o therefore_o he_o do_v not_o mean_a to_o limit_v the_o whole_a number_n of_o sacrament_n to_o three_o i_o will_v put_v you_o down_o one_o place_n where_o he_o mention_v two_o more_o of_o which_o there_o may_v be_v most_o doubt_n to_o wit_n pennance_n and_o matrimony_n for_o penance_n he_o make_v it_o a_o sacrament_n and_o compare_v it_o with_o baptism_n in_o these_o word_n sicut_fw-la in_o baptismo_fw-la omnes_fw-la iniquitates_fw-la remitti_fw-la ita_fw-la poenitentiae_fw-la compunctione_n fructuosa_fw-la universa_fw-la fateamur_fw-la deleri_fw-la peccata_fw-la ut_fw-la hoc_fw-la tegat_fw-la fructuosa_fw-la confessio_fw-la quod_fw-la temerarius_fw-la appetitus_fw-la aut_fw-la ignorantiae_fw-la notatur_fw-la contraxisse_fw-la neglectus_fw-la let_v we_o confess_v that_o as_o in_o baptism_n all_o iniquity_n be_v forgive_v so_o all_o sin_n be_v blot_v out_o by_o the_o fruitful_a compunction_n of_o penance_n that_o fruitful_a confession_n may_v cover_v what_o temerarious_a desire_n or_o ignorant_a neglect_n have_v contract_v where_o you_o see_v how_o to_o compunction_n and_o confession_n join_v together_o in_o this_o sacrament_n he_o give_v the_o like_a power_n of_o blot_v out_o sin_n as_o to_o baptism_n and_o for_o matrimony_n he_o say_v the_o three_o good_n or_o perfection_n thereof_o be_v fides_fw-la proles_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la fidelity_n offspring_n sacrament_n where_o beside_o the_o fidelity_n or_o mutual_a obligation_n which_o have_v ever_o belong_v to_o marriage_n before_o our_o sauiour_n time_n and_o still_o belong_v among_o infidel_n though_o the_o obligation_n be_v not_o so_o perfect_a among_o they_o he_o put_v down_o that_o special_a perfection_n of_o a_o sacrament_n though_o for_o this_o word_n sacrament_n perhaps_o you_o may_v wrangle_v but_o it_o be_v but_o wrangle_v as_o i_o shall_v by_o and_o by_o show_n by_o occasion_n of_o s._n austin_n like_a use_n of_o the_o same_o word_n but_o by_o this_o that_o have_v be_v say_v of_o the_o father_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o no_o word_n can_v be_v sufficient_a to_o declare_v your_o exorbitant_a bad_a deal_n in_o cite_v the_o father_n in_o this_o place_n &_o draw_v they_o with_o in_o compass_n of_o the_o council'_v curse_v they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o it_o for_o it_o do_v not_o command_v that_o whensoever_o a_o man_n name_v one_o sacrament_n he_o shall_v name_v all_o or_o that_o he_o shall_v say_v they_o be_v seven_o in_o number_n nor_o more_o nor_o less_o or_o that_o he_o shall_v say_v they_o be_v institute_v by_o christ_n but_o that_o no_o man_n shall_v say_v against_o this_o as_o indeed_o not_o one_o do_v for_o not_o one_o of_o all_o those_o you_o name_n say_v that_o there_o be_v not_o seven_o or_o that_o there_o be_v more_o than_o seven_o which_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o you_o dare_v so_o bold_o say_v contrary_a to_o the_o most_o sacred_a authority_n of_o so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n than_o which_o great_a be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v or_o imagine_v upon_o earth_n and_o this_o may_v serve_v for_o the_o father_n 14._o but_o before_o i_o have_v do_v with_o they_o in_o this_o point_n i_o must_v in_o a_o word_n take_v notice_n of_o one_o frivolous_a thing_n whereof_o you_o make_v a_o great_a matter_n and_o whereby_o you_o think_v to_o avoid_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v out_o of_o the_o father_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o 7._o sacrament_n which_o be_v that_o they_o use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n in_o a_o general_a signification_n for_o any_o sacred_a sign_n or_o for_o a_o mystery_n &_o such_o like_a wherein_o you_o be_v very_o copious_a to_o no_o purpose_n for_o we_o deny_v it_o not_o but_o only_o we_o deny_v that_o which_o you_o will_v build_v thereupon_o to_o wit_n that_o therefore_o they_o do_v not_o at_o any_o time_n use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n in_o the_o strict_a and_o proper_a sense_n when_o they_o speak_v of_o our_o other_o 5._o sacrament_n which_o you_o deny_v this_o i_o say_v we_o deny_v as_o a_o false_a fiction_n of_o you_o &_o your_o minister_n whereas_o you_o confess_v the_o father_n to_o use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n strict_o and_o proper_o when_o they_o speak_v of_o baptism_n and_o eucharist_n we_o show_v that_o they_o use_v the_o same_o word_n and_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n when_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o other_o sacrament_n join_v they_o with_o these_o two_o as_o i_o show_v before_o out_o
of_o s._n augustine_n where_o he_o have_v speak_v of_o those_o 2._o sacrament_n add_v and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n where_o any_o man_n of_o common_a sense_n may_v see_v he_o mean_v sacrament_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n neither_o do_v we_o ever_o gather_v any_o of_o they_o to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n out_o of_o the_o general_a word_n alone_o unless_o there_o be_v something_o to_o limit_v the_o signification_n thereof_o or_o that_o there_o be_v something_o add_v which_o show_v the_o proper_a effect_n of_o a_o sacrament_n and_o which_o can_v be_v do_v without_o it_o and_o in_o this_o manner_n sir_n humphrey_n you_o shall_v find_v plain_a and_o express_v proof_n for_o every_o one_o of_o these_o sacrament_n out_o of_o s._n augustine_n in_o bell._n which_o s._n aug._n you_o can_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o good_a &_o undoubted_a author_n 24._o bell._n the_o sacr_n in_o genere_fw-la cap._n 24._o wherefore_o i_o can_v but_o dread_a to_o think_v of_o that_o fearful_a curse_n which_o you_o draw_v upon_o yourself_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o paragraph_n where_o you_o be_v content_v the_o anathema_n shall_v fall_v upon_o your_o head_n if_o any_o man_n alive_a shall_v prove_v out_o of_o any_o ancient_a father_n or_o good_a author_n within_o a_o 1000_o year_n after_o christ_n that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o nor_o no_o few_o than_o 7._o sacrament_n for_o though_o s._n aug._n do_v not_o say_v there_o be_v 7._o in_o actu_fw-la signato_fw-la as_o scholar_n speak_v that_o be_v say_v there_o be_v 7._o and_o no_o more_o yet_o he_o do_v it_o in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la as_o by_o say_v this_o be_v a_o sacrament_n &_o that_o be_v a_o sacrament_n and_o of_o one_o in_o this_o place_n of_o another_o in_o that_o place_n as_o the_o holy_a scripture_n do_v of_o the_o 9_o quire_n of_o angel_n which_o all_o make_v up_o seven_o and_o no_o more_o which_o manner_n of_o reckon_v you_o be_v content_a with_o and_o allow_v for_o good_a and_o indeed_o can_v disallow_v for_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o that_o be_v the_o father_n manner_n of_o write_v such_o thing_n 3._o pag._n 149._o edit_n 3._o so_o long_o as_o we_o show_v the_o word_n sacrament_n to_o be_v take_v in_o a_o strict_a sense_n or_o that_o some_o other_o circumstance_n do_v show_v they_o speak_v of_o a_o sacrament_n proper_o 15._o now_o because_o you_o love_v malediction_n so_o well_o that_o you_o may_v be_v sure_a of_o it_o i_o will_v cite_v you_o two_o place_n out_o of_o s._n aug._n for_o two_o sacrament_n which_o you_o most_o doubt_n of_o and_o one_o special_o wherein_o there_o may_v be_v most_o difficulty_n these_o two_o be_v confirmation_n and_o matrimony_n 104._o lib._n 2._o cont_n litter_n petelia_n cap._n 104._o of_o the_o former_a he_o say_v thus_o sacramentum_fw-la chrismatis_fw-la in_o genere_fw-la visibilium_fw-la signaculorum_fw-la sacrosanctum_fw-la est_fw-la sicut_fw-la ipse_fw-la baptismus_fw-la the_o sacrament_n of_o chrism_n in_o the_o kind_n of_o visible_a sign_n be_v holy_a as_o baptism_n itself_o by_o which_o word_n it_o be_v most_o plain_a that_o confirmation_n be_v a_o visible_a sign_n holy_a in_o the_o same_o kind_n as_o baptism_n and_o therefore_o leave_v no_o place_n of_o doubt_n they_o need_v no_o further_a explication_n of_o matrimony_n the_o same_o saint_n speak_v in_o one_o place_n thus_o in_o nostrorum_fw-la nuptijs_fw-la plus_fw-la valet_fw-la sanctitas_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la quam_fw-la foecunditas_fw-la uteri_fw-la 18._o de_fw-fr bon_fw-fr coniug_v cap._n 18._o in_o our_o marriage_n or_o in_o the_o marriage_n of_o we_o that_o be_v of_o christian_n the_o holiness_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v more_o worth_a than_o the_o fruitfulness_n of_o the_o womb_n and_o in_o another_o thus_o 24._o cap._n 24._o bonum_fw-la nuptiarum_fw-la per_fw-la omnes_fw-la gentes_fw-la &_o omnes_fw-la homines_fw-la in_o causa_fw-la generandi_fw-la est_fw-la &_o in_o fide_fw-la castitatis_fw-la quod_fw-la autem_fw-la ad_fw-la populum_fw-la dei_fw-la attinet_fw-la etiam_fw-la in_o sanctitate_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la per_fw-la quam_fw-la nefas_fw-la est_fw-la etiam_fw-la intercedente_fw-la repudio_fw-la alteri_fw-la nubere_fw-la the_o good_a of_o marriage_n among_o all_o nation_n and_o all_o man_n be_v or_o consist_v in_o generation_n and_o fidelity_n of_o chastity_n but_o for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o people_n of_o god_n also_o in_o the_o holiness_n of_o the_o sacrament_n whereby_o it_o be_v utter_o unlawful_a even_o upon_o bill_n of_o divorce_n to_o marry_v to_o another_o which_o two_o place_n do_v evident_o convince_v marriage_n in_o christian_n to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n not_o only_o because_o he_o use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n which_o though_o it_o be_v general_a yet_o consider_v the_o particular_a circumstance_n and_o that_o the_o common_a use_n be_v most_o to_o take_v it_o for_o a_o sacrament_n proper_o may_v be_v some_o argument_n but_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o sanctity_n and_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o signification_n and_o insolubility_n insoemuch_o as_o this_o saint_n make_v the_o proper_a difference_n between_o our_o marriage_n and_o those_o of_o other_o to_o be_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o insolubility_n of_o our_o marriage_n which_o this_o saint_n attribute_v proper_o thereunto_o for_o the_o sanctity_n or_o holiness_n than_o it_o be_v manifest_a out_o of_o s._n augustine_n against_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n that_o marriage_n among_o christian_n be_v a_o holy_a thing_n and_o that_o it_o have_v some_o perfection_n in_o the_o new_a law_n institute_v by_o christ_n which_o it_o have_v not_o before_o both_o which_o thing_n you_o deny_v to_o belong_v thereunto_o and_o therefore_o exclude_v it_o from_o the_o number_n of_o the_o sacrament_n but_o false_o as_o you_o see_v which_o be_v enough_o against_o you_o 16._o now_o this_o sanctity_n can_v consist_v only_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o conjunction_n between_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n for_o it_o have_v that_o from_o the_o beginning_n 2.24_o genes_n 2.24_o when_o it_o be_v first_o say_v erunt_fw-la duo_fw-la in_o carne_fw-la una_fw-la they_o shall_v be_v two_o in_o one_o flesh_n which_o because_o it_o be_v verify_v by_o the_o carnal_a copulation_n of_o man_n and_o woman_n bind_v together_o by_o the_o band_n of_o mutual_a society_n may_v be_v find_v in_o all_o marriage_n though_o nothing_o so_o perfect_o as_o in_o christian_a marriage_n but_o this_o show_v that_o see_v this_o signification_n may_v be_v in_o other_o marriage_n the_o sanctity_n which_o s._n aug._n say_v be_v proper_a to_o our_o marriage_n can_v consist_v in_o that_o signification_n only_o but_o there_o must_v be_v another_o sanctity_n and_o a_o sanctity_n which_o may_v have_v relation_n to_o the_o person_n which_o can_v consist_v whole_o in_o that_o absolute_a insolubility_n which_o in_o christian_a marriage_n as_o divine_n say_v be_v a_o effect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o our_o saviour_n by_o his_o own_o word_n math._n 19.9_o sheweth_z that_o that_o be_v in_o some_o sort_n natural_a and_o belong_v to_o marriage_n even_o from_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o the_o world_n wherefore_o it_o follow_v clear_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n that_o there_o be_v some_o sanctity_n belong_v to_o this_o sacrament_n and_o sanctify_v it_o in_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o this_o conjunction_n of_o man_n and_o woman_n by_o the_o bond_n of_o marriage_n and_o here_o in_o this_o say_n of_o s._n aug_n may_v be_v note_v those_o three_o good_n which_o i_o speak_v before_o out_o of_o s._n isidore_n and_o which_o catholic_n common_o attribute_v to_o marriage_n proles_fw-la fides_n sacramentum_fw-la whereof_o the_o former_a two_o may_v pertain_v as_o s._n augustine_n say_v to_o other_o marriage_n the_o three_o only_a to_o christian_n and_o so_o all_o be_v clear_v which_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n i_o come_v to_o the_o schoolman_n and_o other_o author_n 17._o and_o first_o i_o begin_v with_o bessarion_n who_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v accurse_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n together_o with_o the_o father_n for_o say_v we_o read_v of_o two_o only_a or_o as_o you_o say_v in_o another_o place_n of_o only_o two_o sacrament_n which_o be_v deliver_v we_o plain_o in_o the_o gospel_n but_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n that_o in_o the_o allege_v or_o translate_n of_o these_o word_n you_o be_v bold_a to_o use_v your_o ordinary_a trick_n of_o legerdemain_n as_o i_o shall_v show_v bessarion_n word_n in_o latin_a as_o you_o yourself_o cite_v they_o in_o the_o margin_n be_v these_o haec_fw-la duo_fw-la sola_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la in_o euangelijs_fw-la manifestè_fw-la tradita_fw-la legimus_fw-la these_o two_o sacrament_n alone_o or_o only_o we_o read_v manifest_o in_o scripture_n which_o be_v a_o very_a true_a say_n for_o it_o be_v nothing_o more_o but_o this_o that_o we_o find_v these_o two_o sacrament_n express_o deliver_v and_o that_o we_o find_v none_o other_o or_o none_o of_o the_o rest_n so_o deliver_v that_o be_v plain_o whereas_o the_o meaning_n of_o
it_o as_o you_o translate_v be_v far_o otherwise_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v but_o only_o two_o sacrament_n in_o all_o for_o first_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o demonstrative_a pronoune_n haec_fw-la make_v the_o speech_n more_o general_a as_o if_o bessarion_n do_v say_v there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n whereas_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v any_o thing_n that_o way_n in_o these_o word_n of_o the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n in_o general_a but_o restrain_v his_o speech_n to_o these_o two_o in_o particular_a which_o rather_o import_v that_o there_o be_v other_o sacrament_n for_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v these_o two_o man_n come_v this_o way_n or_o these_o two_o horse_n belong_v to_o i_o will_v not_o any_o man_n gather_v that_o there_o be_v more_o man_n beside_o those_o two_o that_o come_v this_o way_n and_o more_o horse_n beside_o those_o two_o that_o i_o say_v belong_v to_o i_o for_o otherwise_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o add_v this_o determine_n or_o distinguish_v pronoune_n these_o unless_o there_o be_v other_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n from_o which_o they_o be_v to_o be_v distinguish_v second_o the_o word_n sola_o you_o place_n in_o a_o certain_a odd_a and_o crafty_a manner_n to_o make_v the_o sentence_n sound_n as_o if_o there_o be_v two_o sacrament_n and_o no_o more_o for_o you_o put_v it_o before_o the_o word_n sacrament_n whereof_o it_o follow_v that_o the_o negation_n include_v in_o the_o word_n sola_o fall_v upon_o the_o word_n sacrament_n as_o if_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n or_o two_o and_o no_o more_o whereas_o it_o be_v to_o fall_v upon_o the_o word_n expressè_fw-la tradita_fw-la express_o deliver_v that_o be_v to_o say_v that_o these_o two_o sacrament_n and_o none_o other_o be_v express_o deliver_v which_o be_v another_o thing_n neither_o will_v it_o serve_v your_o turn_n to_o say_v you_o place_v it_o in_o english_a as_o it_o be_v place_v in_o the_o latin_a for_o the_o place_n of_o word_n just_a so_o in_o english_a as_o they_o be_v in_o latin_a may_v many_o time_n alter_v &_o many_o time_n also_o make_v no_o sense_n at_o all_o and_o in_o translation_n the_o sense_n be_v chief_o to_o be_v regard_v three_o you_o put_v in_o the_o pronoune_n relative_a which_o of_o yourself_o and_o change_v the_o participle_n tradita_fw-la in_o to_o the_o verb_n traduntur_fw-la whereby_o of_o one_o proposition_n you_o make_v two_o in_o this_o manner_n we_o read_v of_o two_o only_a sacrament_n that_o be_v of_o two_o and_o no_o more_o which_o two_o be_v express_o deliver_v in_o the_o gospel_n whereas_o bessarion_n make_v but_o one_o proposition_n in_o which_o one_o alsoe_o his_o intention_n be_v not_o so_o much_o to_o affirm_v these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o be_v express_o deliver_v as_o you_o make_v it_o as_o to_o deny_v the_o other_o sacrament_n to_o be_v express_o deliver_v as_o shall_v far_o appear_v by_o his_o own_o word_n here_o then_o in_o this_o little_a sentence_n of_o not_o past_o a_o line_n in_o length_n you_o commit_v 4._o fault_n beside_o one_o which_o i_o pass_v over_o as_o not_o so_o much_o alter_v the_o sense_n one_o in_o leave_v out_o haec_fw-la another_o in_o put_v in_o quae_fw-la a_o three_o in_o change_v the_o word_n tradita_fw-la into_o traduntur_fw-la thereby_o make_v 2._o proposition_n of_o one_o a_o four_o in_o so_o place_v sola_o in_o the_o english_a as_o quite_o to_o alter_v the_o sense_n thereby_o make_v affirmative_n of_o negative_n and_o negative_n of_o affirmative_n the_o least_o of_o which_o in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o alteres_fw-la the_o sense_n can_v be_v excuse_v from_o corruption_n especial_o see_v it_o be_v by_o you_o express_o intend_v for_o you_o say_v that_o bessarion_n conclude_v with_o the_o protestant_n and_o for_o proof_n you_o bring_v his_o word_n thus_o translate_v which_o show_v that_o you_o intend_v his_o authority_n shall_v sound_v so_o as_o if_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n as_o you_o teach_v whereby_o you_o will_v lead_v your_o reader_n into_o a_o error_n which_o yet_o you_o do_v in_o such_o a_o manner_n that_o i_o can_v say_v but_o that_o a_o wary_a &_o careful_a reader_n may_v pick_v out_o or_o at_o least_o guess_v at_o bessarion_n true_a meaning_n but_o that_o be_v your_o cunning_n to_o have_v a_o double_a sense_n the_o one_o to_o deceive_v the_o simple_a and_o another_o to_o excuse_v yourself_o against_o the_o objection_n of_o the_o learned_a but_o you_o shall_v remember_v sir_n hum._n there_o be_v a_o woe_n in_o store_n for_o such_o cunning_a man_n 14._o eccles_n 2_o 14._o vae_fw-la duplici_fw-la cord_n &_o labijs_fw-la scelestis_fw-la et_fw-la manibus_fw-la malefacientibus_fw-la &_o peccatori_fw-la terram_fw-la ingredienti_fw-la duabus_fw-la vijs_fw-la woe_n to_o the_o double_a of_o hart_n and_o wicked_a lip_n &_o hand_n ill_o do_v &_o to_o a_o sinner_n go_v on_o the_o earth_n two_o way_n in_o which_o last_o word_n of_o go_v two_o way_n be_v touch_v this_o your_o cunning_n in_o this_o place_n though_o if_o you_o examine_v your_o conscience_n well_o you_o may_v find_v yourself_o guilty_a of_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o this_o sentence_n 18._o but_o now_o to_o bessarion_n i_o answer_v that_o in_o say_v that_o the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o eucharist_n be_v the_o only_a sacrament_n express_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n he_o come_v not_o near_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o council_n for_o that_o canon_n do_v not_o command_v we_o to_o believe_v that_o these_o two_o or_o more_o or_o less_o be_v deliver_v plain_o or_o not_o plain_o in_o scripture_n it_o leave_v that_o to_o the_o disputation_n of_o divine_n only_o it_o will_v have_v we_o believe_v there_o be_v 7._o sacrament_n that_o they_o be_v institute_v by_o christ_n that_o they_o be_v all_o proper_o sacrament_n against_o which_o bessarion_n have_v not_o a_o word_n but_o rather_o much_o for_o it_o for_o write_v that_o oration_n in_o defence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o show_v that_o the_o consecration_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v perform_v by_o word_n he_o prove_v it_o by_o the_o example_n of_o other_o sacrament_n thus_o conse_n bessar_n de_fw-fr verb._n conse_n hunc_fw-la modum_fw-la &_o apostoli_fw-la a_o saluatore_fw-la ut_fw-la crâ—dendum_fw-la est_fw-la &_o ab_fw-la apostolis_n sanct_n patres_fw-la postea_fw-la sumente_n in_o singulis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la sacramentis_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la materiam_fw-la propriam_fw-la sine_fw-la qua_fw-la nullo_n modo_fw-la fieret_fw-la quod_fw-la proponitur_fw-la ita_fw-la etiam_fw-la propriam_fw-la formam_fw-la statuerunt_fw-la quod_fw-la manifestum_fw-la est_fw-la si_fw-la quis_fw-la ad_fw-la chrismatis_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la mentem_fw-la converterit_fw-la this_o manner_n the_o apostle_n receive_v from_o our_o saviour_n as_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v and_o our_o holy_a father_n from_o they_o as_o in_o each_o sacrament_n they_o have_v appoint_v a_o proper_a matter_n without_o which_o that_o can_v be_v do_v which_o be_v purpose_v so_o also_o a_o certain_a form_n which_o be_v manifest_a if_o a_o man_n turn_v his_o mind_n to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o chrism_n by_o which_o word_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o beside_o the_o two_o sacrament_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o he_o acknowledge_v not_o only_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n in_o express_a term_n but_o the_o other_o sacrament_n of_o the_o church_n which_o you_o can_v but_o know_v to_o be_v the_o same_o 7._o which_o now_o we_o hold_v but_o what_o need_v any_o man_n more_o argument_n for_o bessarion_n belief_n in_o this_o point_n than_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n wherein_o he_o be_v a_o great_a man_n and_o wherein_o be_v deliver_v that_o decree_n of_o eugenius_n the_o 4._o to_o the_o armenian_n wherein_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n be_v precise_o and_o distinct_o teach_v with_o the_o uniform_a consent_n both_o of_o the_o latin_a and_o greek_a church_n so_o as_o impiety_n itself_o can_v find_v what_o to_o object_v against_o it_o 19_o thus_o then_o have_v deliver_v bessarion_n also_o from_o your_o worship_n be_v imaginary_a curse_n i_o come_v to_o the_o schoolman_n among_o who_o you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o promise_v your_o reader_n that_o he_o shall_v find_v as_o little_a unity_n as_o among_o the_o father_n which_o as_o you_o say_v in_o a_o evil_a sense_n as_o though_o there_o be_v not_o unity_n among_o the_o father_n so_o do_v i_o yield_v to_o you_o in_o a_o good_a sense_n to_o wit_n that_o as_o there_o be_v unity_n among_o the_o father_n in_o this_o point_n no_o less_o then_o in_o other_o of_o our_o faith_n so_o also_o the_o school_n divine_n their_o child_n succeed_v they_o have_v maintain_v this_o point_n no_o less_o than_o other_o with_o the_o same_o unity_n and_o consent_n as_o i_o shall_v show_v by_o answer_v your_o fond_a cavil_n though_o some_o schoolman_n out_o of_o the_o common_a ignorance_n and_o infirmity_n of_o mankind_n in_o some_o point_v not_o thorough_o discuss_v nor_o define_v by_o the_o church_n do_v
se_fw-la in_o scholae_fw-la disceptationem_fw-la incidisse_fw-la nec_fw-la oportere_fw-la catholicum_fw-la ad_fw-la eorum_fw-la argumenta_fw-la respondere_fw-la sin_n vero_fw-la argumententur_fw-la matrimonium_fw-la cum_fw-la sacris_fw-la caeremonijs_fw-la cum_fw-la sacra_fw-la materia_fw-la cum_fw-la sacra_fw-la forma_fw-la a_o sacro_fw-la ministro_fw-la administratum_fw-la quemad_a modum_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la romana_fw-la semper_fw-la usque_fw-la ab_fw-la apostolis_n administratum_fw-la est_fw-la si_fw-la hoc_fw-la inquam_fw-la argumententur_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la tunc_fw-la catholicus_n respondeat_fw-la fidenter_fw-la animose_n defendat_fw-la secure_a contra_fw-la pugnet_fw-la whither_o our_o opinion_n that_o be_v his_o own_o be_v true_a or_o false_a i_o stand_v not_o if_o the_o lutheran_n will_v dispute_v of_o this_o kind_n of_o marriage_n let_v they_o know_v they_o fall_v upon_o a_o school_n disputation_n and_o that_o a_o catholic_a be_v not_o to_o answer_n to_o their_o argument_n but_o if_o they_o argue_v that_o marriage_n administer_v with_o sacred_a caeremony_n sacred_a matter_n sacred_a form_n &_o by_o a_o sacred_a minister_n as_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v administer_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n even_o from_o the_o apostle_n time_n if_o i_o say_v they_o argue_v that_o this_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n of_o the_o church_n then_o let_v a_o catholic_a answer_n confident_o let_v he_o defend_v stout_o let_v he_o gain_v say_v secure_o so_o he_o 26._o now_o sir_n knight_n with_o what_o face_n can_v you_o allege_v canus_n against_o matrimony_n and_o that_o for_o a_o conclusion_n as_o you_o say_v though_o i_o say_v no_o for_o you_o have_v reserve_v yet_o a_o far_o loud_a lie_n to_o conclude_v with_o all_o which_o be_v concern_v vazquez_n who_o here_o you_o honour_n with_o a_o epithet_n call_v he_o our_o learned_a jesuit_n you_o say_v then_o he_o know_v well_o that_o neither_o modern_a divine_n nor_o ancient_a father_n do_v conclude_v matrimony_n for_o a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrament_n of_o the_o church_n and_o than_o you_o say_v he_o make_v a_o profession_n to_o his_o disciple_n that_o have_v read_v &_o consider_v s._n aug_n he_o find_v that_o when_o he_o call_v it_o a_o sacrament_n he_o speak_v not_o of_o a_o sacrament_n in_o a_o proper_a sense_n &_o that_o therefore_o he_o do_v not_o allege_v s._n aug._n his_o authority_n against_o the_o haeretique_n in_o this_o controversy_n this_o you_o say_v here_o whereto_o i_o will_v put_v your_o marginal_a note_n which_o you_o have_v pag._n 145._o which_o have_v relation_n to_o this_o place_n &_o it_o be_v this_o vazquez_n acknowledge_v matrimony_n to_o be_v no_o sacrament_n proper_o now_o to_o sever_v the_o true_a from_o the_o false_a vazquez_n indeed_o say_v that_o s._n aug._n speak_v of_o matrimony_n do_v use_v the_o word_n sacrament_n but_o in_o a_o large_a sense_n this_o be_v true_a but_o it_o be_v but_o vazquez_n his_o private_a and_o singular_a opinion_n not_o in_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n nor_o any_o thing_n near_o it_o but_o only_o of_o the_o meaning_n of_o one_o father_n in_o the_o use_n of_o a_o word_n which_o if_o it_o be_v take_v in_o such_o a_o sense_n be_v a_o good_a proof_n for_o a_o point_n of_o doctrine_n if_o not_o it_o be_v no_o proof_n against_o it_o but_o there_o may_v be_v other_o proof_n in_o the_o same_o father_n and_o other_o father_n may_v have_v that_o very_a word_n in_o in_o the_o proper_a sense_n but_o even_o this_o opinion_n of_o vazquez_n concern_v this_o word_n of_o s._n aug._n be_v contradict_v by_o all_o other_o catholic_a divine_n â—â—_o bell_n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr matr._n cap._n â—â—_o and_o bellar._n particular_o by_o diverse_a good_a reason_n show_v s._n aug._n to_o use_v this_o word_n proper_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o matrimony_n this_o be_v all_o that_o be_v true_a in_o your_o say_n of_o vazquez_n 27._o now_o i_o come_v to_o the_o false_a first_o ask_a you_o a_o question_n if_o vazquez_n say_v matrimony_n be_v no_o sacrament_n as_o your_o marginal_a note_n which_o i_o speak_v of_o before_o say_v i_o will_v know_v what_o controversy_n that_o be_v that_o vazquez_n say_v he_o have_v with_o haeretique_n and_o for_o proof_n whereof_o he_o do_v not_o bring_v s._n aug_n his_o authority_n of_o the_o word_n sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o judgement_n it_o be_v not_o effectual_a what_o think_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o not_o of_o matrimony_n and_o what_o controversy_n be_v it_o but_o whither_o matrimony_n be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n or_o no_o which_o haeretique_n deny_v and_o vazquez_n affirm_v else_o he_o can_v have_v no_o controversy_n with_o they_o about_o it_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o look_v about_o you_o for_o in_o this_o very_a place_n and_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v to_o show_v vazquez_n for_o you_o he_o show_v himself_o against_o you_o beside_o sir_n humphrey_n look_v again_o in_o vazquez_n to_o 4._o in_o 3._o p._n and_o so_o whether_o he_o have_v not_o one_o whole_a disputation_n express_o for_o the_o proof_n of_o matrimony_n call_v it_o a_o sacrament_n true_o and_o proper_o prove_v it_o by_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o other_o father_n though_o he_o forbear_v to_o use_v the_o authority_n of_o s._n augustine_n for_o the_o reason_n a_o fore_n say_v &_o reprove_v durand_n error_n for_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n univocal_o with_o the_o rest_n nay_o his_o express_a conclusion_n concern_v the_o same_o be_v this_o 3._o vazque_fw-fr de_fw-fr matr._n disp_n 2._o cap._n 3._o matrimonium_fw-la est_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la latiori_fw-la significatione_n pront_n est_fw-la signum_fw-la coniunctionis_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o ecclesiae_fw-la feed_v press_v &_o propriè_fw-la prout_fw-la est_fw-la signum_fw-la gratiae_fw-la sanctificantis_fw-la suscipientes_fw-la sicut_fw-la reliqua_fw-la sex_n matrimony_n be_v a_o sacrament_n not_o only_o in_o a_o large_a signification_n as_o it_o be_v a_o sign_n of_o the_o conjunction_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o church_n but_o precise_o &_o proper_o as_o it_o be_v a_o sign_n of_o grace_n sanctify_v the_o receiver_n as_o the_o other_o six_o and_o because_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o know_v well_o that_o neither_o ancient_a nor_o modern_a divine_n do_v conclude_v it_o for_o a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrament_n of_o the_o church_n i_o will_v add_v his_o other_o word_n in_o the_o same_o chapter_n which_o be_v these_o de_fw-fr sacramento_n in_o hac_fw-la significatione_n semper_fw-la hucusque_fw-la locuti_fw-la sumtis_fw-la &_o scholastici_fw-la locuti_fw-la sunt_fw-la &c._n &c._n quam_fw-la veritatem_fw-la graeci_fw-la semper_fw-la crediderunt_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la etiam_fw-la credunt_fw-la and_o of_o a_o sacrament_n in_o this_o signification_n always_o hitherto_o we_o have_v speak_v and_o other_o divine_n have_v speak_v which_o truth_n the_o grecian_n have_v ever_o believe_v &_o still_o believe_v so_o as_o not_o himself_o only_o but_o other_o divine_n also_o &_o even_o the_o greek_n or_o greek_a church_n not_o only_o do_v believe_v and_o speak_v but_o have_v believe_v and_o speak_v of_o matrimony_n be_v a_o sacrament_n in_o the_o proper_a and_o strict_a sense_n which_o consider_v what_o intolerable_a impudence_n be_v it_o in_o you_o to_o tell_v we_o that_o vazque_n shall_v say_v that_o neither_o modern_a divine_n nor_o ancient_a father_n do_v conclude_v matrimony_n for_o a_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v believe_v of_o any_o man_n but_o that_o we_o see_v it_o and_o with_o this_o i_o be_v think_v to_o end_v this_o §_o thereby_o to_o leave_v a_o good_a relish_n in_o the_o reader_n be_v mind_n of_o your_o honest_a and_o faithful_a deal_n the_o rest_n be_v nothing_o but_o such_o foolish_a stuff_n as_o you_o be_v wont_a to_o talk_v without_o rhyme_n or_o reason_n but_o only_o that_o there_o occur_v a_o place_n of_o bellarmine_n which_o you_o abuse_v so_o strange_o as_o that_o i_o can_v not_o pass_v it_o over_o without_o note_v it_o be_v thus_o 26._o you_o say_v touch_v your_o two_o sacrament_n they_o be_v know_v and_o certain_a because_o they_o be_v primary_o ordain_v by_o christ_n touch_v the_o other_o five_o they_o have_v not_o that_o immediate_a institution_n from_o christ_n whereupon_o say_v you_o the_o learned_a card._n note_v bellarmine_n in_o the_o margin_n be_v force_v to_o confess_v the_o sacred_a thing_n which_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o new_a law_n signify_v be_v threefold_a the_o grace_n of_o justification_n the_o passion_n of_o christ_n and_o eternal_a life_n touch_v baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n the_o thing_n be_v most_o evident_a concern_v the_o other_o five_o it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a so_o say_v you_o where_o in_o a_o few_o line_n you_o have_v so_o much_o falsehood_n so_o patch_v up_o together_o that_o a_o man_n know_v not_o well_o what_o to_o begin_v with_o but_o to_o begin_v you_o say_v your_o two_o sacrament_n be_v know_v and_o certain_a you_o mean_v know_v and_o certain_a that_o
answer_n be_v that_o polydore_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n but_o of_o those_o of_o the_o old_a who_o therefore_o he_o name_v veteres_fw-la patres_fw-la the_o old_a father_n and_o in_o particular_a name_v moses_n and_o ezechias_n the_o reason_n indeed_o why_o they_o do_v condemn_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v fear_n of_o idolatry_n but_o the_o reason_n of_o that_o fear_n be_v as_o he_o say_v because_o no_o man_n have_v see_v god_n they_o know_v not_o what_o shape_n to_o give_v he_o and_o discourse_v of_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n which_o be_v a_o figure_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o cross_n he_o say_v a_o long_a time_n after_o god_n put_v on_o humane_a sharp_a and_o be_v make_v man_n be_v see_v and_o know_v by_o mortal_a man_n and_o in_o that_o humble_a shape_n by_o his_o own_o power_n wrought_v miracle_n beyond_o credit_n the_o same_o whereof_o make_v man_n come_v flock_v unto_o he_o who_o do_v so_o behold_v and_o reverence_v his_o face_n without_o doubt_n shine_v with_o the_o brightness_n of_o divine_a light_n that_o they_o they_o first_o begin_v to_o paint_v and_o carve_v his_o effigy_n now_o already_o imprint_v in_o their_o mind_n and_o there_o tell_v to_o that_o purpose_n the_o story_n out_o of_o eusebius_n of_o the_o hemorrhoisse_n and_o 2._o picture_n of_o our_o saviour_n make_v by_o himself_o one_o send_v to_o abagarus_n the_o other_o give_v to_o veronica_n he_o also_o say_v thus_o it_o be_v a_o constant_a opinion_n that_o s._n luke_n do_v paint_v in_o certain_a table_n the_o figure_n of_o our_o lady_n which_o to_o this_o day_n be_v in_o some_o place_n keep_v most_o holy_o and_o worship_v most_o religious_o then_o relate_v out_o of_o eusebius_n how_o the_o image_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v frame_v and_o keep_v by_o christian_n cit_v the_o word_n follow_v out_o of_o he_o insignia_fw-la etenim_fw-la veterum_fw-la reseruari_fw-la ad_fw-la posterorun_v memoriam_fw-la illorum_fw-la honoris_fw-la horum_fw-la vero_fw-la amoris_fw-la iudicium_fw-la est_fw-la for_o the_o reserve_n of_o the_o sign_n mark_n or_o thing_n belong_v to_o the_o ancient_n to_o the_o memory_n of_o posterity_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o honour_n to_o they_o &_o love_v in_o these_o hence_o say_v polydore_n be_v grow_v worthy_o a_o custom_n of_o place_v in_o the_o church_n &_o reverence_v the_o statue_n as_o well_o of_o our_o saviour_n as_o his_o ss_z but_o because_o by_o the_o memory_n of_o saint_n as_o it_o be_v a_o example_n or_o sample_n set_v before_o our_o eye_n which_o the_o image_n represent_v man_n be_v stir_v up_o to_o virtue_n &_o imitation_n &_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o image_n pass_v to_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o original_a as_o s._n basil_n say_v therefore_o the_o father_n have_v not_o only_o admit_v that_o custom_n but_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o 6._o synod_n at_o constantinople_n under_o constantine_n &_o justinian_n the_o 2._o his_o son_n it_o be_v decree_v as_o may_v appear_v by_o the_o canonical_a decree_n that_o the_o holy_a image_n of_o ss_z shall_v be_v have_v in_o church_n &_o worship_v with_o great_a veneration_n be_v to_o ignorant_a people_n in_o place_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n whereto_o also_o frankincense_n be_v offer_v and_o taper_n be_v light_v and_o there_o add_v 2._o or_o 3._o counsel_n more_o decree_a the_o same_o again_o he_o conclude_v thus_o ecquis_fw-la igitur_fw-la tam_fw-la dissolutus_fw-la tantaque_fw-la audacia_fw-la praeditus_fw-la est_fw-la qui_fw-la velit_fw-la possitue_a dubitare_fw-la seu_fw-la aliter_fw-la somniare_fw-la ne_fw-la dicam_fw-la sentire_fw-la vel_fw-la cogitare_fw-la de_fw-la imaginum_fw-la cultu_fw-la ac_fw-la demum_fw-la sit_fw-la tot_fw-la long_o sanctissimorum_fw-la patrum_fw-la decreto_fw-la constitutum_fw-la what_o man_n be_v there_o therefore_o so_o dissolute_a and_o endue_v with_o so_o much_o boldness_n who_o will_n or_o can_v doubt_v or_o otherwise_o dream_n that_o i_o may_v not_o say_v judge_n or_o think_v of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n then_o at_o last_o have_v be_v approve_v by_o the_o decree_n of_o so_o many_o most_o holy_a father_n thus_o far_o polydore_n to_o who_o demand_n why_o may_v not_o i_o answer_v that_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v be_v the_o man_n so_o dissolute_a and_o audacious_a that_o dare_v not_o only_a dream_n but_o wake_v with_o all_o his_o wit_n and_o sense_n that_o he_o have_v about_o he_o and_o speak_v and_o write_v dare_v i_o say_v not_o only_o doubt_v of_o but_o absolute_o deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o not_o only_o this_o but_o even_o to_o bring_v thou_o o_o polydore_n virgil_n to_o witness_v with_o he_o against_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n condemn_v the_o same_o what_o will_v this_o author_n say_v to_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n if_o he_o be_v alive_a to_o see_v himself_o abuse_v by_o you_o and_o which_o be_v yet_o more_o even_o after_o dr._n white_n be_v convict_v of_o this_o dissolutenes_n and_o audaciousnes_n yet_o you_o will_v be_v at_o it_o again_o hereby_o a_o man_n may_v see_v there_o need_v no_o other_o confutation_n but_o only_a right_n cite_v of_o your_o own_o author_n 17._o for_o peresius_n his_o word_n be_v nothing_o against_o we_o for_o they_o touch_v only_o upon_o a_o school_n point_n whether_o the_o picture_n be_v to_o be_v adore_v with_o the_o same_o worship_n as_o the_o prototype_n or_o thing_n represent_v or_o with_o a_o inferior_a worship_n the_o former_a opinion_n only_o he_o deni_v because_o say_v he_o there_o be_v neither_o proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n of_o the_o church_n common_a consent_n of_o father_n or_o determination_n of_o a_o general_a council_n which_o very_a say_n of_o he_o be_v enough_o to_o condemn_v you_o who_o will_v not_o acknowledge_v sufficient_a authority_n in_o tradition_n father_n or_o council_n to_o believe_v a_o thing_n which_o you_o like_v not_o but_o to_o make_v it_o plain_o appear_v how_o much_o you_o wrong_v peresius_n in_o bring_v he_o against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n i_o will_v bring_v a_o place_n 2._o leaf_n before_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o he_o it_o be_v this_o manifest_a habes_fw-la etc._n etc._n imag_n peres_n de_fw-fr tradit_fw-la cap._n the_o imag_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n have_v be_v universal_o in_o the_o church_n from_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o the_o disesteem_v of_o they_o begin_v from_o forlorn_a and_o infamous_a man_n 500_o year_n after_o the_o church_n be_v plant_v and_o true_o if_o the_o worship_n and_o reverence_n be_v do_v devout_o and_o sincere_o this_o institution_n be_v holy_a and_o profitable_a which_o both_o apostolic_a tradition_n have_v introduce_v the_o use_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n affirm_v the_o consent_n of_o very_o famous_a and_o general_a counsel_n both_o in_o the_o east_n and_o west_n be_v add_v thereto_o which_o also_o even_o natural_a reason_n do_v dictate_v thus_o far_o be_v peresius_n his_o own_o word_n whereby_o any_o man_n may_v see_v whether_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o deal_v well_o with_o he_o or_o not_o to_o pretend_v his_o authority_n against_o our_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n pp_n agobard_fw-mi de_fw-mi pick_v &_o imaginib_fw-la in_o bibl_a pp_n 18._o now_o for_o agobardus_n who_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v great_a acount_n of_o if_o you_o consider_v he_o a_o little_a better_a you_o will_v find_v little_a cause_n he_o write_v indeed_o a_o book_n de_fw-fr picturis_fw-la &_o imaginibus_fw-la the_o whole_a drift_n whereof_o be_v only_o against_o the_o idolatrical_a use_n or_o abuse_v of_o image_n against_o which_o he_o speak_v very_o much_o by_o occasion_n of_o some_o abuse_n in_o his_o time_n as_o it_o be_v meet_v he_o and_o every_o good_a man_n shall_v and_o for_o the_o same_o end_n he_o bring_v many_o authoritye_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n all_o which_o speak_v plain_o against_o idolatry_n and_o likewise_o he_o bring_v that_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n understand_v it_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n which_o i_o allege_v in_o my_o second_o answer_n to_o that_o canon_n before_o to_o wit_n for_o avoid_v superstition_n in_o some_o young_a and_o unexperienced_a christian_n convert_v from_o gentility_n but_o for_o those_o word_n which_o follow_v in_o your_o citation_n of_o he_o to_o wit_n these_o there_o be_v no_o example_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n or_o father_n for_o adoration_n of_o image_n i_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o he_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o they_o be_v not_o join_v with_o the_o former_a as_o you_o here_o join_v they_o thus_o indeed_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n habuerunt_fw-la antiqui_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la imagine_v vel_fw-la pictas_fw-la vel_fw-la sculptas_fw-la sed_fw-la causa_fw-la historiae_fw-la ad_fw-la
riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o whole_a flower_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o learning_n and_o sanctity_n be_v gather_v together_o the_o splendour_n whereof_o be_v so_o great_a that_o your_o night_n owl_n haeretique_n dare_v not_o once_o appear_v though_o they_o be_v invite_v and_o promise_v to_o go_v and_o come_v free_o with_o all_o the_o security_n they_o can_v wish_v and_o for_o such_o a_o fellow_n as_o you_o to_o make_v yourself_o judge_v thereof_o what_o intolerable_a presumption_n be_v it_o it_o be_v presumption_n with_o you_o forsooth_o for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n upon_o the_o perpetual_a and_o constant_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o upon_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n be_v both_o of_o they_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o themselves_o there_o be_v withal_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o sense_n which_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v understand_v by_o catholic_a interpreter_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a time_n when_o that_o proof_n of_o forego_v writer_n can_v have_v no_o place_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n think_v he_o answer_v sufficient_o for_o defence_n of_o himself_o and_o offence_n of_o his_o contentious_a enemy_n 11._o 1._o cor._n 11._o when_o he_o say_v si_fw-la quis_fw-la videtur_fw-la contentiosus_fw-la esse_fw-la nos_fw-la talem_fw-la consuetudinem_fw-la non_fw-la habemus_fw-la neque_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la dei_fw-la if_o any_o man_n seem_v to_o be_v contentious_a we_o have_v no_o such_o custom_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o so_o much_o more_o may_v we_o now_o say_v of_o our_o long_a continue_a custom_n of_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n wherefore_o your_o exception_n sir_n humphrey_n against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o define_v this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n without_o such_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n as_o you_o require_v be_v vain_a as_o that_o be_v also_o false_a which_o you_o here_o again_o repeat_v that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
this_o very_a place_n which_o you_o so_o often_o repeat_v out_o of_o s._n paul_n to_o himself_o he_o answer_v it_o by_o expound_v the_o word_n praeter_fw-la in_o the_o same_o sense_n with_o contra_fw-la which_o stand_v very_o well_o also_o with_o the_o propriety_n of_o the_o latin_a word_n and_o for_o the_o greek_a it_o the_o same_o both_o here_o gal._n v._n 8._o and_o rom._n 16.17_o where_o there_o be_v a_o like_a sentence_n of_o s._n paul_n wish_v the_o roman_n to_o mark_n &_o avoid_v such_o as_o put_v scandal_n and_o stumble_a block_n contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o have_v receive_v the_o word_n i_o say_v be_v the_o same_o 1_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d with_o a_o accusative_a case_n which_o do_v signify_v as_o well_o if_o not_o better_a contra_fw-la then_o praeter_fw-la and_o in_o your_o own_o bible_n you_o translate_v it_o in_o that_o place_n to_o the_o roman_n contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n i_o see_v not_o therefore_o why_o you_o shall_v not_o understand_v it_o alike_o in_o both_o place_n but_o to_o return_v to_o s._n augustine_n the_o thing_n be_v so_o i_o may_v just_o ask_v of_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n whether_o you_o have_v not_o so_o often_o affront_v this_o holy_a father_n as_o you_o have_v repeat_v this_o sentence_n so_o contrary_a to_o his_o meaning_n in_o your_o own_o most_o false_a and_o absurd_a sense_n to_o the_o subversion_n of_o your_o reader_n draw_v his_o word_n from_o their_o true_a catholic_a sense_n which_o he_o have_v so_o often_o and_o so_o serious_o inculcate_v upon_o several_a occasion_n to_o the_o establish_n of_o your_o perverse_a and_o haeretical_a principle_n so_o much_o by_o he_o ever_o detest_v but_o there_o be_v a_o countinge_v day_n sir_n humphrey_n as_o little_a as_o you_o think_v of_o it_o for_o this_o &_o all_o other_o matter_n wherein_o also_o this_o saint_n will_v reckon_v with_o you_o in_o particular_a &_o you_o be_v like_a to_o feel_v the_o heavy_a doom_n of_o he_o and_o all_o other_o who_o you_o have_v so_o free_o affront_v in_o this_o kind_n but_o mean_v while_o i_o trust_v in_o the_o goodness_n of_o god_n by_o the_o prayer_n of_o this_o holy_a saint_n that_o those_o well_o mean_v people_n that_o shall_v take_v the_o pain_n for_o their_o own_o soul_n good_a to_o peruse_v this_o answer_n will_v be_v able_a thereby_o to_o discover_v and_o proclaim_v to_o other_o so_o much_o of_o your_o deal_n as_o that_o any_o thing_n you_o have_v say_v or_o shall_v ever_o say_v will_v be_v able_a to_o do_v little_a harm_n to_o any_o but_o such_o as_o shall_v wilful_o run_v upon_o their_o own_o ruin_n and_o so_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o shall_v make_v a_o end_n of_o this_o §_o and_o section_n wherein_o be_v contain_v the_o chief_a matter_n of_o your_o whole_a book_n so_o as_o i_o hope_v there_o will_v be_v less_a to_o do_v with_o that_o which_o follow_v 10._o chap._n 10._o of_o the_o 10._o section_n entitle_v thus_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversaries_n touch_v the_o infallible_a certainty_n of_o the_o protestant_a faith_n and_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o the_o romish_a chapter_n x._o 1._o sir_n humphrey_n have_v in_o the_o two_o former_a section_n prove_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o faith_n both_o in_o general_a &_o in_o particular_a as_o he_o will_v have_v we_o think_v come_v now_o to_o prove_v the_o certainty_n thereof_o and_o uncertainty_n of_o we_o where_o a_o man_n will_v expect_v he_o shall_v bring_v some_o new_a thing_n either_o reason_n or_o authority_n but_o he_o do_v neither_o but_o only_o upon_o the_o rot_a ground_n which_o he_o suppose_v he_o have_v lay_v very_o sound_o in_o the_o precedent_a section_n he_o go_v on_o very_o confident_o with_o the_o certainty_n of_o his_o faith_n and_o make_v a_o short_a preface_n how_o he_o have_v out_o of_o our_o own_o author_n prove_v that_o the_o faith_n &_o doctrine_n now_o teach_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o know_v informer_n age_n and_o that_o though_o the_o priest_n especial_o jesuit_n be_v bind_v by_o oath_n to_o maintain_v the_o papacy_n yet_o that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v deny_v but_o that_o we_o have_v testify_v against_o ourselves_o in_o behalf_n of_o his_o doctrine_n and_o howsoever_o we_o excuse_v the_o matter_n yet_o we_o be_v divide_v among_o ourselves_o and_o so_o want_v unity_n of_o faith_n after_o this_o preface_n i_o say_v he_o make_v a_o short_a review_v of_o our_o confession_n for_o he_o in_o matter_n of_o justification_n transubstantiation_n private_a mass_n sacrament_n communion_n in_o one_o kind_n prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n worship_v of_o image_n and_o indulgence_n upon_o which_o he_o call_v man_n &_o angel_n to_o witness_v that_o we_o have_v no_o antiquity_n &_o universality_n and_o that_o consequent_o we_o have_v resolve_v the_o grand_a question_n touch_v their_o church_n before_o luther_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o father_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n before_o luther_n tyme._n this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o almost_o half_a this_o section_n in_o all_o which_o i_o must_v appeal_v gentle_a reader_n to_o thy_o indifferent_a judgement_n whether_o there_o be_v a_o true_a word_n or_o no_o for_o suppose_v that_o thou_o have_v read_v what_o be_v go_v before_o thou_o will_v easy_o see_v that_o though_o it_o be_v not_o my_o task_n here_o to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n or_o universality_n or_o any_o thing_n else_o but_o only_o to_o answer_n the_o fond_a objection_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n yet_o i_o have_v accidental_o and_o by_o the_o way_n prove_v the_o same_o in_o most_o point_n and_o by_o the_o same_o author_n and_o place_n which_o he_o bring_v against_o we_o and_o his_o fail_v in_o his_o proof_n of_o our_o novelty_n be_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o his_o own_o novelty_n 2._o what_o a_o shameful_a boast_n than_o be_v it_o for_o he_o to_o say_v that_o most_o of_o our_o point_n now_o teach_v be_v unknown_a to_o antiquity_n for_o though_o some_o may_v perchance_o not_o have_v be_v so_o ancient_o define_v and_o consequent_o doubt_v of_o by_o some_o yet_o to_o say_v they_o be_v not_o common_o believe_v and_o much_o more_o to_o say_v they_o be_v not_o know_v can_v come_v from_o any_o man_n but_o such_o a_o blind_a but_o bold_a bayard_n as_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v for_o if_o one_o man_n or_o two_o doubt_n of_o a_o thing_n must_v it_o therefore_o be_v unknown_a when_o not_o only_o one_o or_o two_o on_o the_o other_o side_n but_o two_o for_o one_o or_o rather_o ten_o nay_o a_o hundred_o for_o one_o say_v the_o contrary_n now_o let_v he_o name_v that_o one_o of_o his_o point_n of_o faith_n here_o by_o he_o dispute_v wherein_o not_o only_o since_o it_o be_v define_v which_o be_v enough_o for_o our_o purpose_n but_o even_o before_o that_o we_o shall_v not_o bring_v he_o a_o great_a many_o that_o hold_v that_o way_n which_o it_o be_v define_v for_o every_o one_o of_o those_o that_o hold_v the_o other_o way_n how_o then_o can_v it_o be_v unknown_a the_o next_o thing_n in_o his_o praeface_n be_v of_o a_o oath_n which_o our_o priest_n especial_o jesuit_n take_v to_o defend_v the_o papacy_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v ask_v he_o where_o he_o find_v this_o oath_n he_o will_v not_o be_v able_a so_o ready_o to_o tell_v we_o though_o if_o he_o can_v i_o see_v not_o why_o any_o man_n shall_v be_v ashamed_a of_o it_o nay_o why_o he_o shall_v not_o glory_v of_o so_o heroical_a a_o act_n as_o be_v a_o oath_n whereby_o he_o bind_v himself_o to_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o authority_n whereon_o the_o weight_n &_o frame_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n and_o salvation_n of_o all_o soul_n from_o christ_n his_o own_o time_n to_o the_o very_a end_n of_o the_o world_n have_v do_v and_o still_o shall_v depend_v but_o this_o i_o only_a note_n for_o the_o knight_n ignorance_n for_o i_o believe_v the_o thing_n he_o will_v be_v at_o be_v the_o four_o vow_n of_o the_o jesuit_n whereby_o they_o special_o bound_v themselves_o in_o obedience_n to_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a to_o go_v in_o mission_n to_o any_o part_n of_o the_o world_n whether_o infidel_n or_o haeretique_n which_o be_v a_o little_a different_a at_o least_o from_o that_o which_o he_o talk_v of_o a_o oath_n to_o defend_v the_o papacy_n 3._o the_o three_o thing_n in_o his_o praeface_n be_v want_v of_o unity_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v us._n whereof_o i_o only_o say_v that_o as_o we_o confess_v there_o may_v be_v difference_n of_o judgment_n before_o a_o definition_n of_o faith_n so_o let_v he_o show_v the_o division_n after_o such_o definition_n let_v he_o name_v that_o man_n and_o we_o
apostasy_n and_o future_a damnation_n to_o each_o other_o this_o poor_a friar_n repent_v himself_o and_o thereupon_o come_v back_o to_o his_o monastery_n and_o do_v penance_n rather_o choose_v to_o suffer_v a_o little_a outward_a austerity_n then_o to_o carry_v about_o in_o the_o bottom_n of_o his_o soul_n such_o a_o inward_a assure_a testimony_n and_o belief_n of_o his_o eternal_a damnation_n as_o he_o see_v these_o two_o do_v i_o may_v say_v more_o of_o the_o man_n fine_a feat_n but_o there_o be_v book_n in_o dutch_a particular_o of_o they_o as_o i_o hear_v and_o so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o in_o this_o your_o learned_a buxhorne_n who_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o licentiate_a make_v a_o doctor_n as_o in_o all_o your_o other_o learned_a man_n that_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n hit_v the_o right_a vein_n and_o discover_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o their_o apostasy_n when_o he_o tell_v the_o university_n man_n it_o be_v not_o any_o chark_n or_o hammer_n that_o hold_v they_o back_o as_o i_o may_v say_v also_o it_o be_v not_o any_o raze_n of_o evidence_n that_o make_v boxhorne_n fall_v from_o his_o faith_n but_o that_o there_o be_v certain_a lutheran_n bait_n wherewith_o many_o of_o they_o be_v catch_v which_o be_v aurum_fw-la gloria_fw-la delitiae_fw-la veneres_fw-la gold_n glory_n delight_n and_o venus_n of_o which_o some_o be_v catch_v with_o one_o some_o with_o another_o and_o so_o you_o see_v this_o your_o learned_a professor_n have_v so_o deep_o swallow_v the_o last_o of_o the_o four_o bait_n that_o it_o make_v his_o stomach_n turn_v at_o the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o exhort_v he_o to_o contemn_v some_o of_o they_o as_o gold_n &_o glory_n and_o force_v he_o to_o forbear_v other_o as_o his_o base_a and_o bestial_a delight_n and_o so_o forsake_v all_o obedience_n to_o humane_a and_o divine_a law_n at_o one_o clapp_n become_v a_o rebel_n to_o his_o prince_n a_o apostata_fw-la to_o religion_n and_o enemy_n to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n therefore_o of_o such_o fellow_n there_o be_v no_o other_o account_n to_o be_v make_v but_o let_v they_o go_v as_o the_o scripture_n say_v of_o one_o of_o their_o chief_a leader_n 2.25_o act._n 2.25_o ut_fw-la abiret_fw-la in_o locum_fw-la suum_fw-la that_o he_o may_v go_v into_o his_o own_o place_n of_o the_o 14._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 14._o chap._n 14._o our_o adversary_n convict_v of_o their_o defence_n of_o a_o desperate_a cause_n by_o their_o blasphemous_a exception_n against_o the_o scripture_n itself_o chapter_n fourteen_o 1._o to_o this_o section_n the_o knight_n give_v a_o beginning_n by_o occasion_n of_o boxhorne_n word_n in_o the_o last_o section_n of_o a_o idol_n in_o the_o temple_n whereupon_o he_o very_o witty_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o we_o see_v the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n stand_v in_o the_o holy_a place_n we_o must_v fly_v to_o the_o mountain_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o s._n chrysostome_n say_v but_o yet_o he_o think_v we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o trial_n of_o scripture_n because_o say_v he_o be_v we_o not_o all_o eye_n witness_n that_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v call_v in_o question_n at_o the_o pope_n assize_n and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v of_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n in_o their_o gospel_n be_v not_o the_o sacred_a bible_n say_v he_o rank_v inter_fw-la libros_fw-la prohibitos_fw-la in_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o forbid_a book_n &_o then_o he_o bring_v corn._n agrippa_n complain_v of_o the_o inquisitor_n that_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v man_n to_o prove_v their_o opinion_n by_o scripture_n this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n which_o upon_o examination_n will_v prove_v as_o foolish_a as_o he_o think_v it_o witty_a i_o answer_v therefore_o that_o though_o catholic_n hold_v for_o most_o certain_a that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n nor_o that_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o all_o controversy_n can_v be_v decide_v as_o for_o example_n that_o in_o particular_a which_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o not_o yet_o for_o most_o thing_n now_o a_o day_n in_o controversy_n many_o catholic_n have_v offer_v to_o try_v the_o matter_n by_o only_a scripture_n some_o have_v also_o write_v book_n of_o good_a volume_n faith_n anchor_n of_o faith_n to_o show_v the_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o obvious_a sense_n to_o make_v positive_o for_o we_o &_o our_o doctrine_n in_o most_o point_n &_o against_o we_o in_o none_o whereof_o a_o man_n may_v also_o have_v a_o brief_a taste_n in_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o censure_n in_o the_o praeface_n in_o these_o point_n follow_v of_o supremacy_n real_a presence_n justification_n absolution_n vow_n tradition_n observance_n of_o the_o commandment_n satisfaction_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a prayer_n to_o saint_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o respect_n therefore_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o come_v to_o be_v so_o sure_a that_o we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o the_o trial_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o we_o ground_n many_o point_n upon_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o do_v not_o we_o ground_n other_o upon_o plain_a and_o express_v authority_n of_o scripture_n from_o which_o you_o be_v fain_o to_o fly_v run_v into_o this_o or_o that_o corner_n of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o figurative_a or_o tropical_a interpretation_n or_o even_o deny_v the_o very_a book_n of_o scripture_n nay_o what_o point_n be_v there_o that_o we_o do_v not_o bring_v better_a proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n for_o it_o which_o yet_o we_o need_v not_o than_o you_o can_v bring_v against_o it_o which_o yet_o be_v absolute_o needful_a on_o your_o part_n you_o stand_v so_o upon_o scripture_n as_o you_o do_v 2._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n at_o his_o assize_n for_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n this_o be_v a_o speech_n utter_v i_o suppose_v by_o you_o only_o in_o the_o fervour_n of_o a_o haereticall_a spirit_n wherein_o therefore_o a_o man_n be_v not_o to_o look_v for_o much_o truth_n but_o yet_o i_o may_v ask_v wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o do_v the_o pope_n question_n or_o condemn_v christ_n of_o obscurity_n &_o insufficiency_n what_o have_v christ_n leave_v write_v to_o be_v question_v or_o condemn_v his_o apostle_n &_o evangelist_n indeed_o have_v leave_v some_o thing_n in_o writing_n of_o which_o some_o be_v hard_a even_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o scripture_n itself_o 3.16_o 2._o pet._n 3.16_o for_o so_o say_v s._n peter_n of_o the_o epistle_n of_o s._n paul_n which_o say_v he_o the_o unlearned_a and_o inconstant_a do_v abuse_v as_o they_o do_v other_o scripture_n to_o their_o own_o perdition_n 14._o aug._n conf._n lib._n 12._o c._n 14._o and_o s._n augustine_n find_v so_o much_o difficulty_n in_o the_o first_o verse_n of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n which_o to_o a_o man_n seem_v be_v as_o easy_a as_o any_o other_o verse_n what_o soever_o that_o he_o be_v fain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o wonderful_a profoundness_n thereof_o it_o be_v s._n peter_n and_o s._n aug._n therefore_o that_o call_v to_o their_o assize_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o so_o and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v s._n paul_n &_o moses_n of_o obscurity_n not_o the_o pope_n &_o so_o for_o insufficiency_n if_o any_o body_n condemn_v it_o it_o be_v s._n john_n in_o say_v that_o 2.14_o 2._o thess_n 2.14_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v &_o s._n paul_n in_o willing_a the_o thessalonians_n to_o hold_v the_o tradition_n which_o they_o have_v learn_v whither_o by_o speech_n or_o letter_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n or_o writing_n they_o be_v the_o apostle_n &_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n that_o acknowledge_v that_o hardness_n of_o scripture_n or_o what_o soever_o it_o be_v which_o your_o worship_n be_v please_v to_o call_v insufficiency_n what_o impertinent_a flaunt_n be_v this_o then_o in_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o tell_v we_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o talk_v thus_o of_o assize_n and_o arraign_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v we_o know_v you_o be_v the_o son_n of_o a_o grand-iuror_n who_o it_o be_v pity_n you_o do_v not_o succeed_v in_o the_o place_n since_o you_o have_v the_o term_n so_o ready_a in_o your_o mouth_n 3._o but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_n i_o likewise_o answer_v you_o for_o our_o rank_v the_o bible_n in_o the_o first_o place_n of_o prohibit_v book_n as_o you_o say_v we_o do_v that_o it_o be_v false_a and_o false_a again_o for_o it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o such_o book_n only_o in_o the_o rule_n which_o concern_v the_o index_n there_o be_v mention_v how_o the_o free_a use_n of_o vulgar_a translation_n be_v not_o to_o be_v permit_v 4._o reg._n 4._o but_o for_o the_o latin_a vulgar_a translation_n there_o be_v no_o manner_n
put_v under_o the_o elbow_n of_o all_o age_n it_o be_v a_o great_a danger_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n lest_o perchance_o by_o perverse_a interpretation_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v make_v the_o gospel_n of_o man_n or_o which_o be_v worse_o the_o gospel_n of_o the_o devil_n thus_o far_o saint_n hieromes_n word_n which_o i_o think_v without_o more_o ado_n may_v easy_o answer_v your_o whole_a argument_n for_o in_o they_o this_o holy_a father_n say_v as_o much_o or_o more_o as_o all_o those_o epithet_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o our_o several_a author_n put_v together_o and_o withal_o show_v in_o what_o sense_n they_o be_v to_o be_v take_v so_o as_o if_o you_o will_v say_v any_o more_o of_o this_o matter_n you_o must_v undertake_v the_o quarrel_n against_o saint_n hierome_n you_o may_v do_v well_o also_o to_o note_v the_o very_a first_o word_n martion_n basilides_n &_o caeterae_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la pest_n among_o who_o you_o have_v your_o part_n 6._o now_o for_o the_o 4._o last_o epithet_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o lessius_fw-la though_o they_o seem_v not_o such_o strange_a term_n as_o some_o of_o the_o rest_n yet_o they_o be_v far_o worse_o and_o more_o derogatory_n from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n if_o they_o be_v there_o as_o you_o say_v i_o have_v therefore_o more_o particular_o examine_v he_o whither_o he_o say_v so_o or_o no_o 11._o lesle_n consul_n quae_fw-la sit_fw-la fides_fw-la etc._n etc._n rat_n 11._o and_o whereas_o the_o word_n be_v all_o put_v down_o by_o you_o here_o as_o it_o be_v several_a epithet_n a_o man_n will_v have_v think_v they_o have_v be_v all_o so_o together_o in_o the_o author_n himself_o i_o say_v first_o that_o there_o be_v neither_o any_o such_o word_n lie_v together_o nor_o any_o such_o a_o part_n nor_o any_o one_o word_n of_o those_o that_o i_o can_v find_v in_o that_o whole_a place_n or_o reason_n which_o i_o may_v call_v a_o chapter_n for_o it_o be_v in_o manner_n of_o a_o chapter_n much_o less_o any_o of_o they_o utter_v of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n though_o the_o whole_a chapter_n or_o discourse_n in_o that_o place_n be_v only_o of_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o alone_o and_o of_o itself_o can_v not_o be_v a_o rule_n of_o faith_n which_o he_o prove_v by_o many_o reason_n one_o be_v because_o by_o it_o we_o can_v not_o judge_v of_o the_o scripture_n itself_o and_o so_o the_o very_a rule_n shall_v remain_v uncertain_a which_o ought_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o in_o this_o place_n he_o have_v the_o word_n incerta_fw-la which_o though_o it_o signify_v the_o same_o with_o some_o of_o the_o word_n here_o allege_v yet_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o word_n but_o yet_o here_o lessius_fw-la be_v far_a from_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v uncertain_a in_o itself_o that_o be_v that_o the_o doctrine_n thereof_o be_v doubtful_a but_o only_o that_o our_o rule_n will_v be_v uncertain_a to_o we_o or_o rather_o we_o uncertain_a of_o the_o rule_n because_o we_o can_v know_v the_o scripture_n by_o itself_o for_o example_n that_o this_o book_n be_v true_a scripture_n not_o supposition_n or_o feign_v or_o that_o this_o be_v the_o true_a meaning_n and_o sense_n thereof_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v no_o derogation_n to_o the_o scripture_n lessius_fw-la his_fw-la second_o reason_n be_v that_o that_o can_v be_v a_o certain_a rule_n which_o may_v be_v accommodate_v or_o fit_v to_o contrary_a doctrine_n as_o he_o say_v scripture_n be_v by_o several_a haeretique_n for_o establishment_n of_o quite_o different_a opinion_n his_o 3._o reason_n be_v this_o that_o can_v be_v a_o judge_n that_o can_v clear_o determine_v on_o which_o side_n sentence_n be_v give_v but_o leave_v it_o so_o that_o the_o party_n may_v still_o contend_v one_o affirm_v the_o sentence_n to_o be_v for_o he_o another_z for_o he_o and_o so_o he_o say_v be_v the_o scripture_n lay_v aside_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o church_n and_o father_n whereto_o he_o there_o bring_v also_o a_o example_n of_o two_o man_n who_o go_v to_o law_n will_v admit_v no_o other_o judge_n but_o the_o law_n book_n one_o bring_v one_o law_n clear_o for_o he_o as_o he_o think_v the_o other_o another_o law_n as_o clear_o for_o he_o in_o his_o judgement_n of_o which_o suit_n there_o can_v never_o be_v a_o end_n so_o four_o he_o show_v by_o experience_n that_o this_o rule_n of_o scripture_n be_v not_o sufficient_a for_o end_v of_o controversy_n because_o the_o lutheran_n caluinist_n and_o anabaptist_n be_v altogether_o by_o the_o ear_n yet_o every_o one_o allege_v scripture_n for_o himself_o last_o he_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n itself_o in_o no_o place_n send_v private_a man_n to_o seach_v the_o scripture_n in_o doubtful_a matter_n but_o to_o the_o church_n and_o pastor_n praeside_v therein_o 7._o this_o be_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o lessius_fw-la his_o discourse_n in_o that_o place_n wherein_o i_o will_v glad_o hear_v what_o word_n there_o be_v derogate_a from_o the_o dignity_n of_o holy_a scripture_n or_o any_o way_n condemn_v it_o of_o imperfection_n doubtfulness_n ambiguity_n and_o perplexity_n some_o of_o these_o thing_n may_v be_v true_o say_v and_o in_o a_o good_a sense_n as_o the_o doubtfulness_n or_o ambiguity_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n that_o i_o speak_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n not_o in_o itself_o but_o to_o us-ward_n but_o for_o the_o imperfection_n because_o that_o be_v a_o great_a matter_n with_o you_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o for_o neither_o do_v any_o catholic_a say_v either_o that_o or_o any_o thing_n else_o from_o whence_o it_o may_v be_v gather_v for_o it_o be_v not_o all_o one_o to_o say_v that_o it_o alone_o be_v no_o sufficient_a rule_n and_o to_o say_v it_o be_v imperfect_a for_o though_o you_o imagine_v that_o the_o all_o sufficiency_n or_o contain_v of_o all_o thing_n express_o be_v a_o necessary_a point_n of_o perfection_n you_o be_v deceive_v for_o than_o will_v it_o follow_v that_o the_o gospel_n of_o s._n matthew_n s._n mark_v and_o other_o particular_a book_n shall_v be_v imperfect_a and_o special_o that_o of_o s._n john_n wherein_o he_o say_v express_o that_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v neither_o if_o all_o the_o scripture_n do_v contain_v all_o thing_n in_o that_o manner_n as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o and_o so_o be_v perfect_a in_o your_o sense_n yet_o will_v it_o not_o even_o then_o be_v a_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o itself_o alone_o for_o it_o will_v still_o be_v a_o book_n or_o uriting_n the_o very_a nature_n whereof_o do_v not_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n or_o judge_n of_o controversy_n for_o a_o jugde_v must_v be_v able_a to_o speak_v to_o hear_v answer_v etc._n etc._n whereas_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o book_n or_o writing_n be_v as_o it_o be_v to_o leave_v itself_o to_o be_v read_v and_o expound_v by_o man_n for_o in_o case_n two_o man_n shall_v expound_v it_o different_o the_o nature_n thereof_o do_v not_o require_v that_o it_o shall_v say_v whether_o of_o the_o two_o expound_v it_o right_n the_o perfection_n therefore_o of_o it_o do_v rather_o consist_v in_o the_o truth_n fullness_n of_o wisdom_n profoundness_n majesty_n gravity_n efficacy_n authority_n and_o certainty_n then_o in_o contain_v all_o thing_n express_o as_o you_o require_v &_o so_o long_o as_o it_o have_v those_o perfection_n contain_v withal_o the_o principal_a matter_n pertain_v to_o faith_n and_o teach_v we_o a_o certain_a and_o infallible_a way_n whereby_o we_o may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o rest_n which_o be_v the_o church_n it_o can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v unperfect_a or_o to_o want_v any_o perfection_n dew_n thereunto_o and_o this_o may_v be_v answer_n sufficient_a to_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o section_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a more_o of_o such_o wise_a stuff_n for_o you_o tell_v we_o we_o decline_v scripture_n as_o unperfect_a the_o father_n as_o counterfect_v the_o protestant_n as_o haeretique_n our_o own_o author_n as_o erroneous_a of_o which_o there_o be_v not_o one_o true_a word_n but_o this_o that_o we_o decline_v protestant_n as_o haeretique_n for_o so_o we_o do_v indeed_o but_o for_o the_o rest_n it_o be_v most_o false_a for_o what_o catholic_n do_v ever_o decline_v the_o authority_n of_o our_o school_n divine_n or_o ancient_a father_n much_o less_o call_v the_o one_o erroneous_a or_o the_o other_o counterfect_a some_o one_o may_v have_v stray_v a_o little_a from_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o the_o rest_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a point_n or_o perhaps_o have_v be_v corrupt_v by_o haeretique_n and_o so_o we_o may_v decline_v that_o particular_a author_n in_o that_o particular_a point_n but_o call_v he_o erroneous_a or_o counterfect_a we_o do_v not_o nay_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v
be_v wont_v also_o to_o say_v a_o man_n be_v better_a not_o hear_v mass_n at_o all_o than_o not_o to_o hear_v it_o devout_o or_o a_o man_n be_v better_a not_o to_o do_v such_o or_o such_o a_o thing_n than_o not_o to_o do_v it_o well_o or_o willing_o and_o the_o like_a though_o indeed_o in_o our_o judgement_n we_o think_v it_o better_o the_o thing_n be_v do_v though_o with_o some_o imperfection_n than_o not_o at_o all_o but_o this_o we_o say_v to_o signify_v the_o desire_n we_o have_v to_o see_v it_o well_o do_v or_o that_o we_o do_v not_o receive_v that_o content_n by_o the_o slender_a or_o slight_a manner_n of_o do_v it_o and_o this_o be_v the_o very_a truth_n of_o s._n chrysost_o say_n 10_o bell._n de_fw-fr miss_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 10_o as_o bell._n make_v it_o to_o appear_v plain_o both_o by_o a_o example_n out_o of_o scripture_n and_o by_o other_o argument'_v out_o of_o s._n chrysost_o himself_o which_o you_o may_v look_v better_o upon_o again_o and_o consider_v well_o with_o yourself_o whether_o you_o have_v deal_v well_o with_o bell._n in_o allege_v his_o bare_a word_n so_o as_o if_o he_o have_v give_v no_o reason_n for_o his_o say_n beside_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o s._n chrysost_o speak_v the_o very_a word_n which_o you_o allege_v so_o crude_o and_o harsh_o as_o you_o make_v he_o for_o he_o do_v not_o say_v plain_o that_o it_o be_v better_a not_o to_o be_v present_a at_o the_o sacrifice_n than_o not_o to_o communicate_v but_o to_o show_v the_o indignity_n of_o it_o bring_v a_o similitude_n of_o a_o man_n that_o shall_v invite_v a_o friend_n to_o a_o feast_n and_o that_o friend_n come_v shall_v only_a sit_v there_o and_o not_o eat_v a_o bit_n of_o meat_n ephes_n chrys_n hom_n 3._o in_o ep_n ad_fw-la ephes_n he_o ask_v whether_o in_o so_o do_v he_o do_v not_o put_v a_o affront_n upon_o his_o friend_n that_o invite_v he_o and_o be_v it_o not_o better_o say_v he_o that_o he_o have_v not_o appear_v at_o all_o wherein_o he_o say_v most_o true_o which_o for_o all_o that_o be_v but_o a_o similitude_n do_v not_o hold_v so_o rigorous_o in_o every_o particular_a last_o i_o see_v not_o what_o colour_n there_o be_v in_o this_o place_n to_o disprove_v that_o which_o you_o call_v private_a mass_n for_o if_o saint_n chrysostome_n have_v say_v it_o have_v be_v better_a for_o the_o priest_n not_o to_o say_v mass_n than_o not_o to_o have_v some_o to_o communicate_v with_o he_o it_o have_v be_v something_o but_o to_o say_v of_o the_o people_n that_o it_o be_v better_a for_o they_o not_o to_o be_v there_o than_o not_o to_o communicate_v i_o do_v not_o see_v by_o what_o consequence_n it_o can_v be_v draw_v against_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n especial_o see_v it_o be_v evident_a 5._o v._o durant_n de_fw-fr rit_fw-fr lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o n._n 5._o that_o this_o saint_n do_v say_v mass_n every_o day_n and_o many_o of_o his_o people_n do_v not_o communicate_v pass_v twice_o or_o thrice_o and_o many_o also_o not_o pass_v once_o in_o a_o twelve_o month_n 10._o the_o 9_o ancient_a author_n be_v prudentius_n who_o word_n you_o cite_v not_o but_o only_o say_v thus_o if_o we_o cite_v prudentius_n bellarmine_n answer_v i_o say_v no_o more_o of_o he_o but_o that_o he_o play_v the_o poet_n but_o what_o i_o pray_v you_o sir_n be_v the_o reason_n you_o forbear_v to_o cite_v prudentius_n his_o word_n or_o sense_n any_o man_n may_v easy_o guess_v there_o be_v something_o in_o the_o wind_n something_o that_o you_o think_v better_o conceal_v then_o discover_v but_o i_o shall_v for_o once_o supply_v your_o want_n herein_o first_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o section_n you_o tell_v we_o you_o will_v show_v how_o we_o elude_v or_o reject_v the_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n or_o to_o use_v your_o own_o word_n the_o record_n and_o real_a proof_n in_o father_n and_o other_o learned_a author_n touch_v the_o chief_a point_n in_o controversy_n betwixt_o us._n now_o let_v we_o see_v whither_o that_o for_o which_o prudentius_n be_v object_v in_o bellarmine_n be_v such_o or_o not_o the_o question_n in_o bellarmine_n be_v whether_o the_o damn_a soul_n in_o hell_n feel_v any_o benefitt_a by_o the_o suffrage_n of_o the_o live_n or_o no_o for_o the_o affirmative_a he_o bring_v some_o say_n of_o father_n which_o may_v seem_v to_o insinuate_v as_o much_o and_o among_o other_o two_o verse_n out_o of_o prudentius_n thus_o sunt_fw-la &_o spiritibus_fw-la saepe_fw-la nocentibus_fw-la paenarum_fw-la celebres_fw-la sub_fw-la styge_a feriae_fw-la the_o english_a whereof_o be_v that_o the_o wicked_a spirit_n have_v often_o time_n holiday_n that_o be_v some_o ease_n of_o their_o pain_n to_o which_o bell._n make_v no_o other_o answer_n indeed_o but_o that_o he_o play_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o poet_n now_o i_o ask_v you_o whither_o this_o be_v a_o chief_a point_n of_o controversy_n betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o it_o shall_v seem_v you_o take_v it_o so_o because_o you_o seem_v in_o all_o this_o section_n as_o if_o you_o allege_v only_o such_o as_o make_v for_o you_o in_o your_o controversye_n against_o we_o and_o your_o very_a word_n which_o you_o use_v here_o thus_o if_o we_o cite_v prudentius_n etc._n etc._n import_n as_o if_o you_o do_v cite_v prudentius_n for_o yourself_o in_o that_o matter_n whereto_o bellarmine_n answer_v yet_o it_o be_v plain_a on_o the_o other_o side_n that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o difference_n betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o in_o that_o matter_n for_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o any_o haeretique_n of_o this_o time_n say_v any_o such_o thing_n as_o that_o the_o damn_a find_v any_o release_n or_o ease_v of_o their_o pain_n by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o lyve_n what_o say_v you_o then_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o allege_v prudentius_n to_o very_o good_a purpose_n do_v not_o this_o show_v a_o strange_a contentious_a spirit_n in_o you_o that_o care_v not_o what_o you_o say_v whether_o it_o be_v to_o the_o purpose_n or_o not_o so_o it_o may_v seem_v somewhat_o against_o we_o though_o indeed_o it_o be_v not_o but_o now_o for_o bellarmine_n answer_n it_o be_v true_a and_o good_a and_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o poet_n word_n be_v not_o always_o to_o be_v so_o strict_o interpret_v nor_o truth_n to_o be_v altogether_o so_o exact_v at_o their_o hand_n as_o at_o other_o man_n the_o restraint_n which_o they_o be_v fain_o to_o use_v in_o the_o number_n of_o their_o verse_n give_v they_o a_o little_a more_o liberty_n in_o the_o matter_n 11._o the_o 10._o tertullian_n 6._o bell._n de_fw-fr eccl._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 6._o who_o word_n you_o do_v not_o alsoe_o cite_v but_o only_o say_v that_o if_o you_o object_v he_o bellarmine_n answer_v his_o authority_n be_v of_o no_o great_a account_n when_o he_o contradict_v other_o father_n and_o when_o it_o appear_v he_o be_v no_o man_n of_o the_o church_n his_o word_n i_o say_v you_o do_v not_o cite_v but_o yet_o in_o say_v if_o we_o object_v he_o and_o indeed_o in_o name_v he_o you_o seem_v as_o if_o you_o have_v some_o controversy_n with_o we_o in_o that_o point_n for_o which_o he_o be_v cite_v which_o be_v of_o the_o virginity_n of_o our_o b._n lady_n in_o our_o sauiour_n birth_n that_o be_v whether_o she_o be_v a_o virgin_n in_o the_o birth_n alsoe_o or_o not_o but_o though_o the_o haeretique_n of_o this_o age_n general_o speak_v very_o mean_o and_o contemptible_o of_o this_o most_o sacred_a virgin_n yet_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o your_o protestant_n be_v so_o earnest_a against_o her_o virginity_n as_o to_o make_v the_o contrary_a a_o point_n of_o your_o belief_n much_o less_o a_o chief_a point_n as_o you_o make_v all_o that_o you_o bring_v ancient_a author_n for_o in_o this_o place_n but_o for_o the_o matter_n it_o be_v this_o bellarmine_n speak_v of_o a_o authority_n of_o s._n ambrose_n his_o which_o may_v seem_v at_o first_o sight_n to_o make_v against_o the_o same_o then_o say_v that_o origen_n and_o tertull._n have_v something_o like_o also_o and_o so_o answer_v altogether_o he_o show_v of_o origen_n &_o s._n ambrose_n that_o they_o be_v not_o against_o we_o by_o expound_v those_o place_n which_o seem_v against_o it_o by_o other_o plain_a place_n out_o of_o they_o for_o tertullian_n he_o say_v his_o word_n be_v obscure_a nor_o much_o to_o be_v regard_v when_o he_o contradict_v other_o father_n and_o when_o it_o appear_v he_o be_v no_o man_n of_o the_o church_n which_o last_o word_n you_o translate_v false_o and_o withal_o leave_v out_o a_o authority_n of_o special_a moment_n the_o word_n false_o translate_v be_v these_o cùm_fw-la constet_fw-la since_o it_o appear_v whereas_o you_o say_v when_o it_o appear_v which_o be_v a_o different_a
sense_n for_o ask_v any_o schoolboy_n whether_o cùm_fw-la with_o the_o subiunctive_a and_o indicative_a mood_n be_v all_o one_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o leave_v out_o be_v s._n hierom_n authority_n which_o bellarmine_n allege_v thus_o see_v say_v he_o it_o be_v evident_a as_o saint_n hiero._n speak_v that_o he_o be_v no_o man_n of_o the_o church_n these_o be_v saint_n hierom_n very_a word_n here_o than_o you_o see_v again_o that_o it_o be_v saint_n hierome_n not_o bellarmine_n alone_a that_o do_v reject_v tertullian_n nor_o be_v saint_n hierome_n alone_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n in_o this_o opinion_n of_o he_o but_o almost_o all_o the_o father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v he_o be_v by_o his_o fall_n a_o great_a temptation_n to_o many_o 5._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 24._o hilar._n in_o comment_n in_o math._n cap._n 5._o and_o saint_n hilarius_n say_v there_o that_o tertullian_n late_a error_n do_v detract_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o authority_n from_o his_o approve_a writing_n so_o than_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n if_o bellarmine_n make_v small_a account_n of_o he_o where_o he_o contradict_v other_o father_n and_o so_o you_o may_v say_v that_o s._n hierome_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n and_o s._n hilarius_n reject_v and_o elude_v the_o father_n as_o well_o as_o bellarmine_n 12._o the_o 11._o be_v saint_n hierome_n of_o who_o you_o say_v that_o if_o you_o cite_v he_o canus_n make_v answer_n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n 11._o can._n de_fw-fr locis_fw-la lib._n 2._o cap._n 11._o but_o you_o tell_v we_o not_o where_o or_o upon_o what_o occasion_n you_o cite_v saint_n hierome_n no_o more_o than_o you_o do_v the_o three_o former_a father_n though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o that_o matter_n that_o canus_n speak_v of_o which_o be_v the_o canon_n of_o scripture_n you_o have_v saint_n hierome_n a_o little_a more_o before_o you_o in_o show_v then_o in_o any_o thing_n else_o or_o more_o than_o you_o have_v any_o other_o of_o the_o father_n yet_o i_o dare_v say_v you_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o stand_v to_o his_o judgement_n even_o in_o that_o very_a matter_n for_o though_o this_o saint_n reckon_v the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n according_a to_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o jew_n which_o you_o also_o follow_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v urge_v you_o with_o s._n hieromes_n authority_n even_o in_o this_o point_n i_o believe_v you_o will_v say_v the_o same_o or_o more_o than_o canus_n do_v to_o wit_n that_o he_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n for_o s._n hierosme_n allow_v the_o book_n of_o judith_n to_o be_v canonical_a scripture_n judith_n proef._n in_o judith_n though_o it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o jew_n canon_n which_o yet_o you_o reject_v and_o on_o the_o contrary_n he_o say_v of_o saint_n peter_n second_o epistle_n à _fw-la plaerisque_fw-la reijcitur_fw-la it_o be_v reject_v by_o most_o apost_n descript_n eccle_n verb._n petrus_n apost_n wherein_o yet_o you_o do_v not_o follow_v he_o this_o be_v for_o the_o matter_n now_o for_o the_o word_n you_o do_v not_o cite_v canus_n right_a for_o he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o saint_n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n though_o that_o be_v true_a as_o i_o shall_v show_v present_o but_o thus_o have_v allege_v caietan_n saying_n that_o the_o church_n do_v follow_v s._n hierome_n in_o reckon_v the_o book_n of_o scripture_n he_o deni_v it_o thus_o for_o neither_o be_v it_o true_a say_v canus_n that_o s._n hier._n be_v the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n in_o determine_v the_o canonical_a book_n which_o be_v most_o true_a s._n hierome_n be_v not_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o church_n be_v his_o rule_n judith_n hier._n praef_n in_o judith_n as_o appear_v in_o that_o he_o reckon_v judith_n among_o the_o canonical_a book_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o say_v s._n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n for_o determine_v which_o book_n be_v scripture_n which_o not_o and_o to_o say_v he_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n beside_o if_o canus_n have_v say_v s._n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n he_o have_v say_v most_o true_a and_o nothing_o but_o what_o holy_a s._n aug._n say_v in_o other_o word_n in_o a_o epistle_n to_o this_o same_o s._n hierome_n and_o speak_v even_o of_o his_o writing_n thus_o 19_o aug._n ep_v 19_o solis_n eye_v scripturarum_fw-la libris_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o have_v learned_a to_o give_v that_o fear_n and_o honour_n to_o those_o only_a book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v now_o call_v canonical_a as_o to_o believe_v most_o firm_o that_o no_o author_n or_o writer_n of_o they_o have_v err_v any_o thing_n in_o writing_n but_o other_o i_o read_v so_o that_o though_o they_o excel_v never_o so_o much_o in_o any_o holiness_n &_o learning_n i_o do_v not_o therefore_o think_v it_o true_a because_o they_o think_v so_o but_o because_o they_o have_v be_v able_a to_o persuade_v either_o by_o those_o canonical_a author_n or_o by_o probable_a reason_n that_o they_o say_v true_a and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o specify_v even_o s._n hierome_n himself_o and_o say_v unto_o he_o that_o he_o presume_v he_o will_v not_o have_v he_o so_o whole_o approve_v of_o his_o writing_n as_o to_o think_v there_o be_v no_o error_n at_o all_o in_o they_o the_o like_a he_o have_v in_o another_o place_n show_v plain_o that_o any_o private_a doctor_n may_v err_v 3_o lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr bap._n cont_n donat._n cap._n 3_o and_o consequent_o can_v be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n yet_o for_o all_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o such_o be_v very_o great_a in_o any_o thing_n wherein_o he_o agree_v with_o other_o or_o be_v not_o by_o they_o gain_v say_v for_o that_o be_v a_o token_n that_o what_o he_o say_v be_v the_o common_a tradition_n and_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v a_o sufficient_a rule_n be_v this_o then_o to_o reject_v and_o elude_v the_o father_n to_o say_v that_o one_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n if_o it_o be_v then_o do_v s._n aug._n reject_v and_o elude_v they_o it_o be_v plain_a therefore_o you_o do_v but_o cavil_n for_o why_o may_v not_o canus_n say_v the_o same_o of_o s._n hierome_n that_o s._n aug._n do_v 13._o after_o s._n hierome_n you_o come_v to_o justin_n irenaeus_n epiphanius_n and_o oecumenius_n who_o say_v you_o if_o you_o cite_v bellarmine_n answer_v i_o see_v not_o how_o we_o can_v defend_v the_o sentence_n of_o these_o man_n from_o error_n 6_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr sanct._n cap._n 6_o here_o again_o as_o else_o where_o you_o forbear_v to_o tell_v we_o the_o matter_n for_o which_o you_o cite_v they_o or_o who_o of_o your_o author_n cite_v they_o for_o this_o will_v have_v discover_v your_o falsehood_n and_o vanity_n the_o matter_n than_o be_v concern_v the_o damn_a spirit_n whether_o they_o suffer_v any_o punishment_n for_o the_o present_a time_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n or_o not_o these_o father_n think_v not_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o other_o father_n and_o of_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n be_v against_o they_o in_o it_o how_o then_o shall_v bellarmine_n excuse_v it_o from_o a_o error_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n bethink_v yourself_o well_o and_o tell_v we_o again_o whether_o this_o be_v any_o point_n controvert_v between_o you_o and_o we_o i_o know_v it_o be_v a_o thing_n which_o you_o may_v better_o maintain_v then_o most_o or_o perhaps_o any_o one_o point_n of_o your_o faith_n have_v these_o 3._o or_o 4._o father_n for_o you_o therein_o but_o yet_o i_o do_v not_o find_v by_o your_o 39_o article_n or_o any_o other_o sufficient_a authority_n that_o you_o hold_v that_o error_n much_o less_o as_o a_o chief_a point_n of_o your_o faith_n wherefore_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o say_v when_o you_o cite_v these_o father_n for_o you_o do_v not_o cite_v they_o neither_o be_v their_o error_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o controversy_n between_o we_o i_o note_v here_o also_o in_o a_o word_n that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v only_a he_o do_v not_o see_v how_o he_o can_v defend_v the_o opinion_n of_o justin_n irenaeus_n etc._n etc._n from_o error_n you_o make_v he_o say_v the_o opinion_n of_o these_o man_n as_o if_o he_o do_v speak_v but_o slight_o of_o the_o father_n which_o be_v a_o great_a wrong_n for_o though_o he_o do_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n and_o always_o approve_v the_o opinion_n of_o every_o particular_a man_n yet_o do_v he_o always_o speak_v with_o great_a reverence_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n as_o all_o catholic_n do_v 14._o last_o you_o come_v with_o salmeron_n say_v that_o if_o you_o produce_v the_o uniform_a consent_n of_o father_n against_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n salmeron_n the_o jesuit_n make_v answer_n weak_a be_v the_o place_n which_o be_v