Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	faith_n	reason_n	see_v	6,880	5	4.6981	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A03584	The ansvvere of Mr. Richard Hooker to a supplication preferred by Mr Walter Travers to the HH. Lords of the Privie Counsell	Hooker, Richard, 1553 or 4-1600.; Jackson, Henry, 1586-1662.	1612 (1612)	STC 13706; ESTC S104190	20,605	36

himselfe is by casting his load vpon my backe as if J had brought him by former cōferences out of hope that any fruit would ever come of conferring with me Loath J am to rip vp those conferences whereof he maketh but a slippery loose relation In one of them the question betweene vs was whether the perswasion of faith concerning remission of sinnes eternall life whatsoever God doth promise vnto man be as free from doubting as the perswasion which we haue by sence concerning things tasted selt and seene For the negatiue J mentioned their example whose faith in Scripture is most commended and the experience which all faithfull men haue continually had of themselues For proofe of the affirmatiue which he held J desiring to haue some reason heard no thing but All good writers oftentimes inculcated At the length vpon request to see some one of them Peter Martyr's common places were brought where the leaues were turned downe at a place sounding to this effect that The Gospell doth make Christians more vertuous then morall Philosophie doth make Heathens which came not neere the question by many miles 22 In the other conference hee questioned about the matter of reprobation misliking first that I had tearmed God a permissiue and no positiue cause of the evil which the schoolemen doe call malum culpae secondly that to their obiection who say If I be elected do what I will I shall be saued I had answered that the will of God in this thing is not absolute but conditionall to saue his elect beleeuing fearing and obediently serving him Thirdly that to stop the mouthes of such as grudge repine against God for reiecting castawaies J had taught that they are not reiected no not in the purpose and counsell of God without a foreseene worthinesse of reiection going though not in time yet in order before For if Gods electing do in order as needs it must presuppose the foresight of their being that are elected though they be elected before they bee nor only the positiue foresight of their being but also the permissiue of their being miserable because electiō is through mercy and mercy doth alwaies presuppose miserie it followeth that the very chosen of God acknowledge to the praise of the riches of his exceeding free compassion that when he in his secret determination set it downe Those shall liue and not die they lay as vglie spectacles before him as lepers covered with dung mire as vlcers putrified in their fathers loines miserable wor thie to be had in detestation shall any forsaken creature be able to say vnto God Thou didst plunge me into the depth and assigne me vnto endlesse torments onely to satisfie thine owne will finding nothing in mee for which J could seeme in thy sight so well worthie to feele everlasting flames 23 When J saw that Mr Travers carped at these things only because they lay not open J promised at some cōvenient time to make them cleere as light both to him and all others Which if they that reproue mee will not grant me leaue to doe they must thinke that they are for some cause or other more desirous to haue me reputed an vnsound man then willing that my sincere meaning should appeare and be approued When J was farther asked what my groundes were J answered that Saint Paules wordes concerning this cause were my groundes His next demaunde what Author J did followe in expounding Saint Paule and gathering the doctrine out of his words against the iudgement he saith of All Churches and All good writers I was well assured that to controule this over-reaching speech the sentences which I might haue cited out of Church confessions togither with the best learned monuments of former times and not the meanest of our owne were mo in number then perhaps he would willingly haue hard of but what had this booted me For although he himselfe in generalitie do much vse those formall speeches All Churches and All good writers yet as he holdeth it in pulpit lawful to say in generall the Painims thinke this or the Heathens that but vtterly vnlawfull to cite anie sentence of theirs that say it so hee gaue mee at that time great cause to thinke that my particular alleadging of other mens words to shew their agreement with mine would as much haue displeased his minde as the thing it selfe for which it had beene alleadged For he knoweth how often hee hath in publique place bitten me for this although I did never in any sermon vse many of the sentences of other writers and do make most without any having alwaies thought it meetest neither to affect nor to contemne the vse of them 24 He is not ignorant that in the very entrance to the talke which we had privatly at that time to proue it vnlawfull altogither in preaching either for confirmation declaratiō or otherwise to cite any thing but mere canonicall scripture he brought in The scripture is given by inspiration and is profitable to teach improue c. Vrging much the vigour of these two clauses The man of God and every good worke If therefore the worke were good which he required at my hāds if privatly to shew why I thought the doctrin I had delivered to be according to S. Paules meaning were a good worke can they which take the place before alleaged for a law condemning every man of God who in doing the worke of preaching any way vseth humane authoritie like it in mee if in the worke of strengthning that which I had preached I should bring forth the testimonies and the sayings of mortall men I alleaged therfore that which might vnder no pretence in the worlde bee disallowed namelie reasons not meaning thereby my own reason as now it is reported but true sound divine reason reason whereby those conclusions might be out of S. Paule demonstrated and not probably discoursed of only reason proper to that science whereby the things of God are knowne Theologicall reason without principles in scripture that are plaine soundly deduceth more doubtfull inferences in such sort that being hard they cannot be denyed nor any thing repugnāt vnto them received but whatsoever was before otherwise by miscollecting gathered out of darke places is thereby forced to yeeld it selfe and the true cōsonant meaning of sentences not vnderstoode is brought to light This is the reason which I intended If it were possible for mee to escape the Ferula in any thing I do or speak I had vndoubtedly escaped it in this In this I did that which by some is inioined as the only allowable but granted by all as the most sure and safe way whereby to resolue things doubted of in matters appertaining to faith and christian religion So that Mr Travers had here smal cause given him to be weary of conferring vnlesle it were in other respects then that poore one which is here pretended that is to say the little hope hee had of doing mee any good by conference

blind Alley or vttered where none was to heare it that had skill with authoritie to controll or covertly insinuated by some glyding sentence 8 That which I taught was at Paules Crosse it was not hudled in amongst other matters in such sort that it could passe without noting it was opened it was proued it was some reasonable time stood vpon I see not which way my L. of London who was present and heard it can excuse so great a fault as patiently without rebuke or controlement afterwardes to heare any man there teach otherwise then the word of God doth not as it is vnderstood by the privat interpretation of some one or two men or by a speciall construction receaued in some few bookes but as it is vnderstood by all Churches professing the Gospell by them all and therefore even by our owne also amongst others A man that did mean to proue that he speaketh would surely take the measure of his words shorter 9 The next thing discovered is an opinion about the assurance of mens perswasion in matters of faith J haue taught he saith That the assurance of things which we beleeue by the word is not so certaine as of that we perceiue by sence And is it as certaine Yea J taught as hee himselfe J trust will not deny that the things which God doth promise in his word are surer vnto vs then anything we touch handle or see but are we so sure certaine of them if we bee why doth God so often proue his promises vnto vs as hee doth by arguments taken from our sensible experience Wee must be surer of the proofe then of the thing proved otherwise it is no proofe How is it that if ten men doe all look vpon the moone every one of them knoweth it as certainely to be the moon as another but many beleeving one and the same promises all haue not one and the same fulnesse of perswasion How falleth it out that men being assured of any thing by sence can bee no surer of it then are whereas the strongest in faith that liveth vpon the earth hath alwaies need to labour and striue and pray that his assurance concerning heavenly and spirituall things may grow increase and be augmented 10 The Sermon wherein J haue spoken somewhat largely of this point was long before this late cōtroversie rose betweene him and me vpon request of some of my friends seene read by many amongst many some who are thought able to discerne and J never heard that any one of them hitherto hath condemned it as containing vnsound matter My case were very hard if as oft as any thing J speake displeasing one mans tast my doctrine vpon his only word should bee taken for sower leven 11 The rest of this discoverie is all about the matter now in question wherein hee hath two faults predominant which would tyre out any that should answer vnto every point severally vnapt speaking of schoole controversies and of my wordes sometimes so vntoward a reciting that hee which should promise to drawe a mans countenance and did indeed expresse the parts at leastwise the most of them truly but perversely place them could not represent a more offensiue visage then vnto me my owne speech seemeth in some places as he hath ordered it For answere wherevnto that writing is sufficient wherein J haue set down both my words and meaning in such sort that were this accusation doth depraue the one and either misinterpret or without iust cause mislike the other it will appeare so plainely that J may spare very well to take vpon me a new and a needlesse labour here 12 Only at one thing which is there to be found because Mr Travers doth here seeme to take such a speciall advantage as if the matter were vnanswerable hee constraineth me either to detect his oversight or to confesse mine owne in it In setting the question betweene the Church of Rome and vs about Grace and Iustification least J should giue them an occasion to say as commonly they doe that when wee cannot refute their opinions we propose to our selues such insteed of theirs as we can refute J tooke it for the best and most perspicuous way of teaching to declare first how far we doe agree and then to shew our disagreement not generally as Mr Travers his words would carrie it for the easier fast ning that vpon me wherwith saving only by him J was never in my life touched but about the matter only of iustificatiō for farther J had no cause to medle at that time What was then my offence in this case I did as hee saith so set it out as if wee had consented in the greatest and waightiest points differed onely in smaller matters Jt will not bee found when it commeth to the ballance a light differēce where we disagree as I did acknowledge that we doe about the very essence of the medicine wherby Christ cureth our disease Did J goe about to make a shew of agreement in the waightiest points and was J so fond as not to conceale our disagreement about this J doe wish that some indifferencie were vsed by them that haue taken the waighing of my words 13 Yea but our agreement is not such in two of the chiefest points as J would haue men beleeue it is and what are they The one is J said They acknowledge all men sinners even the blessed Virgin though some of thē free her from sinne Put the case J had affirmed that onely some of them free her from sinne and had delivered it as the most currant opinion amongst them that shee was conceaued in sin doth not Bonaventure say plainely Omnes ferè In a manner all men doe hold this both he not bring many reasons wherefore all men should hold it Were their voices since that time ever counted and their number found smaller which hold it then theirs that hold the contrary Let the question then be whether J might say the most of them acknowledged all men sinners even the blessed Virgin her selfe To shew that their generall receiued opinion is the contrarie the Tridentine Councell is alleaged peradventure not altogether so considerately For if that Councell haue by resolute determinatiō freed her if it hold as M. Travers saith it doth that shee was free from sin then must the Church of Rome needs condemne thē that holde the contrarie For what that Councell holdeth the same they all doe and must hold But in the Church of Rome who knoweth not that it is a thing indifferent to thinke and defend the one or the other So that by this argument the Councell of Trent holdeth the Virgin free from sinne Ergo it is plaine that none of them may and therefore vntrue that most of them doe acknowledge her a sinner were forcible to overthrowe my supposed assertion if it were true that the Councell did hold this But to the end it may clearely appeare how it neither holdeth this nor