and their Successors the true Ministers of the Gospell who by their preaching declare who have their sinnes pardoned and who not So as your colouring over your usuall evasion of the Papists about their merits which they say are not absolutely meritorious of themselves but as being dipped and dyed in Christs blood whence they receive the tincture of merit But as the merit of Christ is altogether immanent in himselfe and not transient to us but onely by Imputation through faith and not by any infusion or inherencie as Papists teach So the power of Priestly Absolution is so proper and peculiar to the Person of Christ that it is not communicative or derivative to any Creature No not I say to the Leviticall Priests who otherwise were Types of Christ. They onely offered sacrifices for sinnes but as Types and which could never take away Sinnes as the Apostle speakes And their Office was to discerne and judge of the Leprosie and to pronounce a man cleane or uncleane according to those signes and markes which God himselfe gave Now Leprosie was an Embleme of Sinne. And as those Ministers of the Old Testament did with the Leprosie namely pronounce or declare it onely to be or not to be So the Ministers of the Gospell are to declare unto beleevers the pardon of sinnes by those signes and markes which God hath set in his Word and to impenitent persons condemnation except they beleeve and repent But for power of Absolving men from Sinnes as to Say Thy Sins are forgiven thee that 's Christs voyce alone Never any of the Apostles used this voyce to any Thy Sins are forgiven thee but as Peter said to those that were pricked in their hearts and asked Men and Bretheren what shall we doe Repent saith he and be baptised every one of you in the Name of Iesus Christ for the Remission of Sins But to Say I absolve thee from thy Sins or Thy Sins are forgiven thee is onely his who can give Repentance and Faith These two Prerogatives are inseperable in Christ as Peter sheweth Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour for to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of Sinnes and we are witnesses of these things Saith he Now if you can prove that Christ hath made you Such Princes and Saviours as to give you a power which Symon Magus would have bought with his money to give Repentance to any man then I will without any more adoe confesse that you have also a power to forgive Sins Otherwise not till then by your assumed and usurped Priesthood and presumptuous yea blasphemous forgiving of Sins I Absolve thee you deny Iesus to be the Christ the onely Christ to wit the onely Priest who onely hath merit and power as to give Repentance so remission of Sins to whom he will And thus as you take upon you to be a Priest both by your profession and practise you are an Antichrist For who is a lyer but he that denyeth Iesus to be the Christ He is Antichrist Saith the Apostle Iohn Secondly neither were it any great difficulty to prove that you Prelates and that according to your owne Doctrine in many places of your Book do deny Iesus to be the Christ to wit the onely Prophet of his Church For you allow no beliefe that the Scripture is the voyce of Christ the Prophet except the voyce and Tradition of the present Church doe first usher it in And this Church must alwayes be meant of a Prelaticall Church No question of that And for Exposition and Sense of Scripture you deny that the Scripture it selfe and of it selfe hath sufficient light as at after we shall see at large and therefore you referre us either to the Exposition of the Primitive Church or the Decisions of Generall Councels for the right Sense of the Scripture Thus you doe akurōsa as Christ saith or make voyd and of no authority the voyce of Christ by your Tradition Nay you Say also That if a Generall Councel should Conclude and Decree an Errour yet all men ought to yeeld obedience at least externall thereunto till another Generall Councel equall to that shall reverse and correct it And by the way what if it shall make it worse or adde more Errours to it But thus doe you not deny Christ to be the onely Prophet of his Church of whom God Saith Heare Him Him onely His Word onely His Voyce onely when you do not take his Word to be light enough and to be sufficient to interpret it selfe but that you must have recourse to Generall Councels consisting of Prelates as your Oracles to decide all doubts and controversies of Faith Doe you not thus attribute a greater light to men then to the voyce of Christ GOD Saith of Christ that Prophet Heare him in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you but you say In all doubts and controversies of faith heare what a Generall Councel Saith yea though it determine Errours yet all men are bound to yeeld obedience thereunto Thus the expresse voyce and cleare word of Christ that Prophet must depend upon Men and those an Assembly of Prelates or Priests which Christ never ordained in his Church and not men upon It. And so in this respect also denying Christ to be the onely All sufficient Prophet to instruct and establish his Church in all Truth while you deny his word to be Autópistos and Autà rkes of selfe-Credit of it selfe to be beleeved and selfe-sufficient to shew and interpret it selfe you prove your selfe an Antichrist For who is a lyer but he that denyeth that Iesus is the Christ He is Antichrist Your Grace therefore is an Antichrist But I come to the third Instance to which I confesse I thought to have confined my selfe and not to have touched the other two in this place though they be no lesse proper then this which is That you Prelates both by Profession and Practise as you are Prelates doe deny Iesus to be the Christ in that you deny him to be the onely Lord and King of his Church For what is for Christ to be the King of and over and in his Church but as to exercise his Almighty power and Fatherly care and Spouse-like love in protecting and preserving his Church from all evills in comforting her in the midst of afflictions in supplying her with all necessary Graces and Blessings and in vindicating the cause of his People against all their Persecuters and Oppressors So also in bearing a Speciall Kingly Rule in and over their Soules and Consciences in all things concerning Faith in the Worship and Service of God So as the people of God doe and ought to acknowledge Christ herein their onely King and not to suffer their consciences to be captivated and insnared by any ordinance of Man whatsoever in point of faith and ceremonies in Gods service injoyning a necessary conformity thereunto 'T is Christs Prerogative alone in
by pregnant Comparisons ib. 83. How the Prelate hangs the Beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God necessarily upon the Authority of the present Church and other such poore inducements all but meere probabilities which may beget opinion but never beliefe 152 153 154 155. All examined and proved to be meere vanity in all which the Prelate destroyes all Faith and hope of Salvation 156. also 157. In what sense and way onely a Naturall Man being led by the Prelates hand as of the present Church to read the Scripture may be induced to beleeve it is the very word of GOD 154. 84. Further notorious blasphemies of the Prelate in derogating from Scripture as having no light but as a candle in a box of 12 in the pound till Tradition of the present Church doe light it Examined 157 158 159. How the Prelate perverts the Scripture and puts out the light of it 157. Other blasphemies of the Prelate against the Scripture Gods word and the Holy Ghost making his Church-Tradition the eyes inlightner 159 160 161. Gods own voyce in Scripture read and preached begets beliefe that it is Gods word 161. 85. The Prelates prosecution of this Argument in advancing his present Church Authority further confuted 162 163. 85 86. A Subtile and Sly evasion of the Prelate from the Jusuites true objection 164. A pretty tricke of Legerdemain 195. Scriptures full light teacheth a perfect knowledge against the Prelates Evasion 165 166. 87. The Prelates perverting of Scripture in his Babylonish confounding the Historicall with the Saving and justifying Faith as he alwayes doth and another Scripture in confounding the regenerate with the unregenerate 166. to 170. Whereupon the Replyer addes a notable Discourse of the nature of true Saving Faith 170 to 174 as namely of its admirable operations in the severall faculties of the Soule with its excellencie c. The Prelate Contradicts himselfe not knowing wherof he affirmeth Saving that by Faith he ever meaneth a false Faith whereby he destroyeth the true 173. The Sure beliefe of Scripture is a Christians sure comfort in trouble 172 173. 88. Hookers Sensible Demonstration so applauded by the Prelate throughly scanned and soundly proved to be false by most evident Demonstrations proving the Scripture to prove it selfe Gods word 174 to 177. The Prelates Ground from Nature being applyed to Scripture proved false and Christs Saying which the Prelate objecteth cleared 177 178. 89. Hookers stating of the Question commended by the Prelate for Tradition as the Key to open the Entrance to Scripture proved false in the Prelates sense and that Key to be a false pick-lock 178 179. 91. How the Prelate in charging the Pope for usurping Lordship over the world is taken tardy for doing the like himselfe over All England contrary to S. Peters rule alledged by the Prelate 180. 93. What assistance Lawfully sent Pastors and Teachers have ordinarily of God 180.181 95. The Prelate selfe-condemned ibid. 98. The Prelate belyes the Scripture to credit his Church-Tradition 182. Scripture little heholden to the Prelates Church-Tradition ib. His bold belying the Scripture as if that gave Authority to his usurped Church-Tradition ib. The Prelate catcht in his own Delemma or Net ibid. A Solecisme of the Prelate ibid. 100. The Prelate maliciously yoakes the precise party as he calls it with the Jesuite onely making that 10 times worse 183 184. The precise party with the Prelates factious silence Ministers vindicated from his wicked and false reproches 184 185 186. The Prelates 3 marks of his imagined Author of Ipswich Newes 186. The Prelates hypocriticall words and desperate deeds for Preaching how they agree and his cursed hypocrisie cryed shame of by his infamous practises 187. The Prelate knows not what true Preaching meanes 188. Difference between true Sermons and the Preachers for infallibility ibid. The Prelates Diabolicall malice against the true Preachers of Gods word 189. The Replyer at length forced by the Prelate to answre his compari-tween the Ancient Fathers and the best moderne Reformed Dison be vines for Preaching 190 191. Other Cavils of the Prelate answered 192 193. 104. The Prelate perverteth the Fathers to uphold Tradition still which they were against to the Prelates sense 194 195 196. Prelates Popish pretence of Scriptures deepnesse to draw men from them to seek to the Oracles of the present Church Tradition 196 to 199. With the mischiefes that may follow upon it ibid. The Prelates Popish zeale noted by occasion in his forcing all Bibles to be bound with Apochrypha 196 197. How the Prelate overthrows a true Principle and Maxime by a false 198. Grace makes Supernaturall truth more evident then Nature doth the Naturall 199. 106. Another excellent discourse of Saving Faith occasioned by the Prelate bewraying his profound ignorance herein 200 201 202. The Prelats bold belying and blaspheming Gods secret Councels 202. The Prelates broad blind Popish way 203. Fully confuted 203 204. 109. Prelate againe blasphemeth in belying Gods Councels 205. 1â—6 The Prelate hangs the Credit of Scripture upon mans opinions of Gods sufficiencie ibid. Mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie how vaine blind and impotent 206. The Prelate himselfe proved to have a blind opinion of God and of his Sufficiencie and consequently he is an Infidel not beleeving the Scripture to be Gods word 207 108. as which saith he depends on mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie 111. The Prelate still detracts from Scripture all along 208. 113. By the Prelates Doctrine the Faith of all the Apostles Martyrs ancient Fathers and Doctors which know no such Tradition of the present Church as a necessary prime inducement to lead them to the beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word is Hereticall and Schismaticall 206 210. Ergo the Prelaticall Church Schismaticall and Hereticall 115. Most notorious blasphemy of the Prelate against the Holy Ghost making him the Author of falshood as is shewed 211 212 213 214. Sundry probable Reasons layd down by the Replyer why the Prelate should as he doth chuse the light of nature as the Second to his Church Tradition to introduce beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word and of God to be God 212 213. No reverend perswasion of Scripture had till first the Tradition of of the present most Reverend Father commend it as Laudable 212. How the Prelate dallies with Romish Idolatry 211. How the Prelate hangs mans beliefe of God as of Scripture upon his Church Tradition 212. 116 The Prelates good inclination to mans free-will in beleeving The Prelates notorious and grosse hypocrisie pretending respect to the Scripture to be the motive of his tedious vain groundlesse and gracecâ—ssâ— discourse in disgracing and vilifying of it altogether and that as gâ—osly as ever any â—esuiâ—e did 215 216. The Prelaâ—es most wickâ—d perverting and abusing of Scripture 216 Wâ—o are his Christianly dâ—sposed men whom in his Discourse he â—ndâ—avoureth to satisfie ibid. 118. A nimble shift and put off of the Prelates 217. The absurbity of his Comparison of his
your whole Discourse So as I may see my Doom already set down in black and white that I must be Censured as one too busie or AllotroepÃoskopos playing the Bishop in anothers Diocese in our English Translation a busy body But I must beare it off with Head and Shoulders And as the Proverbe is Over Shooes over Bootes I have already waded through the Fords of your Dedicatory and now I must launch into the Deep of your Discourse And there 's now no returning Nor have I put my hand to the Plough to turn up your weeds by the roots to look backe or desist for feare to be censured as one too busie Yea all my businesse is about particulars and namely such as summed up together in the totall conclude you to be though not a profest Invader yet a most subtile and pragmaticall Enginer and underminer of that Truth of Christ in the Scripture which yet the Gates of Hell shall never prevaile against L. p. 4. Bellarmine of very great ability to make good any truth which he undertakes for the Church of Rome P. What one thing I pray which Bellarmine undertakes to make good for the Church of Rome as the Church of Rome is a truth I say as the Church of Rome For what he undertakes to make good for the Church of Rome properly must needs be some point of Popery or Popish Doctrine Otherwise he undertakes not to make it good as for the Church of Rome Now the Church of Rome as it is the Church of Rome namely the Papall Church holds not any one Saving Truth I say againe it holds not any one Saving Truth I shall prove this more particularly at after Yet you seem to intimate here that either all or most things so undertaken by him are truth But the contrary will appeare So as what things are in themselves false and erronious can by no humane ability either of that Champion of Rome Bellarmine or of the great Champion of the present Church of England be so made good as to deserve the name of Truth L. ibid. After Bellarmine hath distinguished â—o expresse his Meaning in what sence the particular Church of Rome cannot Erre in things which are de Fide of the Faith he tells us this Firmitude is because the Sea Apostolicke is fixed there And this he saith is most true P. Your last words here are somewhat darke whether we should take them for Bellarmines words he saith or for your owne assent therein And this he saith is most true This Later is the Likelier And then againe here is another doubt whether And this he saith is very true it be referred to the whole Sentence going before and alledged by you or onely to the Last Clause If to the whole Sentence then in Saying And this he saith is most true you assent that Romes infallibility consists in the Firmitude of the Sea Apostolicke fixed there Which you seem afterwards more expresly to contradict But if onely to the Last Clause your Speech hath reference And this he saith is most true then first you should have expressed it more Clearely and punctually as in some things you doe But taking it in the best sense you confesse it is most true that the Sea Apostolicke is fixed there thus you give occasion of Dispute about Peters being at Rome and of his being Bishop of Rome and if so whether consequently Rome be yet the Sea Apostolicke But because your words here are not Cleare enough and at after you declare your selfe herein more plainly what we have to say of this we will reserve to a fitter place L. p. 23. I shall ever be glad that the Church of England may have farre more able Defendants then my selfe P. Certainly the Church of England her selfe may be glad hereof to vindicate her Reputation which you by this your Defence have layd flat in the dust But May have seems to import that now she hath not at least now that Dr. White is dead Nor hath the Church of England any great cause to glory in either of you both as Defendants unlesse by the Church of England you understand that new Start-up Faction of Arminianized and Iesuited Atheists whose Standard-beares you have been and are to bring the whole Land backe againe to Rome and so to make a full League and Confederacie against the true Church of Iesus Christ. L. p. 29. Things not Fundamentall yet to some mens Salvation are neâ—essary P. How prove you this Seeing what is necessary to some mens Salvation is necessary to all and every mans Salvation And Fundamentalls onely to wit Such things as are de Fide of Faith are the onely things necessary to every mans Salvation According to the Athanasius his Creed Whosoever will be Saved it is necessary that he hold the Catholicke Faith which Faith unlesse a man keep whole and undefiled without doubt he shall perish everlastingly For the Catholicke Faith comprehends all Fundamentalls which to violate in any one particular overthrowes the Faith and cuts a man off from Salvation But your adding of other things besides and unto the Fundamentalls as necessary to Some mens Salvation doth necessarily inferre this Consequence that there be other things besides Christ which are necessary to Some mens Salvation And so you make Christ an insufficient Saviour to some men at least as to whose Salvation things not Fundamentall are necessary For things not Fundamentall are extra Christum out of or without Christ. Whereas the Scripture Saith of CHRIST That there is no Salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given whereby Dei sothenai emas we Must be Saved which words doe plainly evince that besides Christ nothing under heaven is necessary to any mans Salvation But give us some one particular instance of such things as being not fundamentall yet are necessary to some mens Salvation You tell us of certain I wot not what Deductions from the Articles of Faith which you make to be your Not-Fundamentall and yet necessary to some mens Salvation but for our better Information you particularize in nothing neither in the things nor in the persons for whose Salvation they are necessary but leave all in the Cloudes the fittest manâ—le to foldâ—up such foule and blind errours in L. p. 31. The Churches Declaration can bind us to peace and externall obedience where there is no expresse Letter of Scripture and Sense agreed upon P. By the Latitude of this Sentence you or your Church of England may as you have done by your Declaration prefixed to your Articles of Religion as before bind Ministers not to preach of those Doctrines of Grace as Election Predestination c. because though there be expresse Letter of Scripture for them yet the Sense is so farre from being agreed upon by your present Church as that you Say plainly they may be taken in two opposite Senses So as upon this your Churches Declaration of the ambiguities of your Articles you
shall set forth to the contrary I must crave pardon if it be not of the same faith with you And thus farre you allow any in the Church of England this liberty for your words are Is it not lawfull for any in the Church of England to say I conceive thus or thus of it c Although you adde L. p. 51. It is one thing to hold an opinion privately within himselfe and another thing boldly and publickly to affirme it P. I doe I confesse boldly and publickly affirme this my faith concerning this Article which my faith I doe assure my selfe is true being grounded upon good and cleare evidence of the Scripture on which my faith is built and not upon any thing of humane Authority And in making open confession of this my faith I doe therin follow the Rule of Scripture which saith Bretheren if any of you doe erre from the Truth and one convert him Let him know that he which converteth a Sinner from the errour of his way shall save a Soule from death and shall hide â— multitude of Sinnes Now what know I that this Declaration of my Faith with Reasons from the Scripture may by Gods grace be a meanes to convert if not your Lordship from your errour yet others or may preserve them from falling into it being dangerously entred into it by such an example as your selfe And however if it be lawfull for you boldly and publickly to affirme such things of beliefe which are not found to be in Scripture why may it not be as lawfull for me boldly and publickly to affirme the Contrâ—ry But the Scope of your Speech as I conceive is to maintaine your practise in punishing in High Commission such as expound this Article by and according to the Scripture L p. 53. For that all the Positive Articles of the present Church of England are grounded upon Scripture we are content to be judged by the joynt and constant beliefe of the Fathers which lived within the first foure or five hundred yeares after CHRIST when the Church was at the best and by the Councels held within those times and to submit to them in all those points of Doctrine P. But first as is before noted as you give accasion why have you made your Articles to be DÃpsucoi of a double sense So as in that respect how can you call them Positive being so perplexed in themselves And againe Whom doe you meane here by Wee I suppose you and your church of England You are contented to be Judged by Fathers and Councels within the first 500. yeares whether your Church-Articles be grounded on Scripture or not Are you contented so indeed Then you must be contented to undergoe the Censure of departing both from the judgement of the Scriptures as disavowing them for the onely rule of Faith and Doctrines to be tryed by and also from the joynt and constant beliefe both of Fathers and Councels within the first 500. yeares For their joynt constant and unanimous beliefe was that nothing besides the Scripture is to be Judge in matters of Faith And if you want leasure to read the Fathers doe but peruse the learned Discourses and Disputes of the Divines of the Church of England before your being a Prelate as Dr. Carleton of the Church De Ecclesia Dr. Whitakers forementioned Dr. White his way to the true Church Dr. Bilson yea and all those that have written of these Controversies and they will abundantly show this that it was ever held as a Principle and therefore not to be denyed nor needfull to be proved and which Dr. Carleton in his said Book proves never to have been altered till in and by the Councel of Trent That the Scripture is the sole rule of Faith But thus you and your Church of England are contented to be one and the Same Church with Rome in refusing the Scripture as the Sole Iudge of your Doctrines But will you be judged by the joynt and constant beliefe of Fathers and Councels within the first 500. yeares whether your Articles about Grace Election Predestination c. bearing as you Declare a double and opposite sense in their Pelagian and Arminian sense be according to the Scriptures or no If I name onely Augustine who was Pelagionorum Malleus that Hammer to knock down the Pelagians both the Fathers and Councels within those first 500. yeares did joyntly and constantly professe that which he writ to be the Beliefe of the whole Church it was so clearely and fully proved out of Scripture In so much as you may read in the Histories of the Councels as in Binius how that some Councels and Bishops of Rome set downe Large Passages in Augustins Tracts against the Pelagians as the Jugement of the Catholick Church and the particular Decrees and Acts of such and such councels If then you will stand to the Judgement of those ancient Fathâ—rs and Councels then you must at their Barre hold up that hand which was a chiefe instrument in drawing up the said Declaration which hath so enigmatized and darkened the Articles as they have no other Light left but a kind of twilight which inclines rather to the night then to the day rather to favour the Pelagian Heresie then the Orthodox verity But this being your language all along that you put not onely your Articles and the Articles of the Creed but the Mysteries also of the Scriptures to the Iudgement of the Primitive Church Fathers Generall Councels we will Supersede from speaking more of it in this place Again where you say that the Church was then at the best if you understand it during the age and time of the Apostles 't is most true but if of the Succeding ages within 500. yeares we may doubt of it or rather resolve the contrary unlesse you meane it comparatively to the ages after that wherein Antichrist and the Mystery of Iniquity began more brightly to shine forth and display themselves in the Roman Sea both in corruption of doctrine and of Gods worship beyond all excesse For you may know that within the space of the first 500. yeares the Church was so overgrown and pestered with the heresie of Arius as the world groaned under it wondering it was become an Arian as Hierome speakes Totus ingemuit mundus miratus se factum esse Arianum And among many corruptions and much unsoundnesse in Doctrine what multitudes of Superstitious devises and heathenish Customes not onely crept but crowded into the service of God Which Heathenish Rites as we find in B. Rhenanus his Annotations upon Turtullian were by the Christians in a kind of carnall policie admitted both because many ancient men being converted to Christianity such as it was could not easily part with their old Customes as also that thereby they might draw other of the Gentiles to become Christians Just such a policie as our new Doctors I meane of your Church of England have used in a pretence at least making us beleeve
for beliefe And you place the Authority of the Present Church in the forefront as a prime leader and inducer to this beliefe And this you inculcate very often and Say pag. 120 I confesse every where that Tradition introduces the knowledge of them And pag. 126. you tell the Jesuite A. C. saying Herein we goe the same way with you because we allow the Tradition of the present Church to be the First inducing Motive c. So as herein you jumpe with the Jesuite So then Authority of the present Church is the Prime Or as sometimes you call it Tradition or otherwhiles The voyce of the Present Church All comes to one reckoning Then to this Leader you muster up a troop of followers as here Ordinary Grace a mind morally induced and reasonably perswaded and before a mans owne Reason and humane Testimony morall perswasion Reason and Force of the present Church the Holy Ghost Conferring of the Scripture with it selfe and other writings And what then Then and not before the Scripture gives greater and higher Reasons of Credibility to it selfe then Tradition alone could give What No more effect for all this but a Credibility I expected you should with such a Troope under the command of such a Generall as the Authority Tradiâ—ion and voyce of the present Church have effected that Rockie Forâ— of mans heart to have yealded to open the Gates of his Infidelity to let in this Beliefe that Scripture is the word of God And can you obtaine no more then a Credibility Alas poore Scripture Can all Mans witty inventions advance thy credit which they have taken away no higher then to a Credibility But thus we may see the vanity of Mans wit when it hath cast away the truth This is right as the Preacher Saith Lâ—e this onely have I found That God made man upright but they have sought out many inventions So when men reject the word of the Lord what wisdome is in them Then they fall to their inventions like Michals stuffing her Image with Goates haire and laying it in the bed instead of David Or a right Embleme hereof we have in our First Parents when they had disrobed themselves of that plain simple seamelesse but glorious robe of their Innocencie having thus lost their uprightnesse wherein God made them presently they fall to their inventions they will supply the want of that robe with a many faire fresh Fig-leaves sowed together without either needle or thread vainly imagining that this would cover their shame when indeed it was a plain signe they had lost their Glory and yet could not hide their nakednesse So when a man hath lost the Truth he shall loose his wits in his manifold Inventions before he shal be able thereby to make up his losse Thus did the Church of Rome of old no sooner had they thrust out Gods word and the preaching of it out of their Temples but up goe their Images for Lay-mens Books and in comes crowding a multitude of Ceremonies the Inventions of man as if these would make amends with advantage instead of the holy Scriptures Just your practise in the Church of England at this day And just your like practise here When you have cast a black veile over the Scriptures native beauty and light disabling them as sufficient witnesses to prove themselves the word of God you invent here a number of things to stop our mouthes to make us beleeve that by these you will bring Mans naturall blindnesse to see and his infidelity to beleeve just nothing at all that the Scriptures are the word of God So as you deale with us here as some Parents doe with their Children take the piece of gold from them and please them with a handfull of deafe nuts Onely they doe it providently to preserve the Gold from being lost but you Popishly to destroy the Gold and to set up the painted dresse of your New-nothing Or you put out the Eyes of the Scripture and then light your Candle before it as after you tell us But let 's a little examine your words First I note here what a blind guide you commend to blind men to lead them to the beliefe of the Scriptures to be the word of God For what is it Certainty No Probabilty A man is probably led But of Probability we have spoken before And take this with you for a certaine truth Probability may beget an opinion but never a belief But by whom probably led By the Authority of the present Church What present Church Of the Prelates or Hierarchy ever But who gave you Authority to be a Church Or Suppose you were the true Church of Christ who gave you this Authority to take away from the Scriptures their sufficiencie of guiding men to the faith of them and to tie men to depend upon the Authority of the present Church thereby to be induced to beleeve the Scriptures And what 's your present Church Is it not the Same with that of Rome And is not this Authority which you arrogate Romish And what if your present Church with Rome shall induce us to beleeve the Apocryphall Bookes to be part of Scripture Or some word unwritten which you call Apostolick Traditions to be equall with the word written as you agree with Bellarmine in this Distinction of the word written and unwritten as before is touched And what if as you have given us too much proofe you should limit us in beleeving the Scripture what part to beleeve for Canonicall and what otherwise For as Hierome saith The Scripture consists more in the marrow of Sentences then in the barke of words more in the Sense then in the Syllables What say you then to the 4 th Commandement which your present Church denyes to be Morall for a Seventh day Sabbath and thereby overthrow the Sanctification of the Lords day What say you of the Doctrines of Grace which you have overthrowne by your Declaration before your Articles What of Altars and the like If herein you overthrow the Sense of Scripture doe you not proclaime to the world that such and such Scriptures are not Canonicall Or if the words be still holden for Canonicall yet it must be according to the Sense of your present Church As Paulus 4. the Pope in the End of the Councel of Trent tyes all Priests by oath to interpret the Scriptures no otherwise but according to the Sense of the Catholick Church the Summe whereof is the Decrees and Canons of Trent Is not thus the whole Scripture made voyd But come on let men be primely induced by the Authority of the present Church to wit of the Prelates or Hierarchy for no other Church you allow nor we you to be any other but of Antichrist by what Argument trow you is it likelyest they will be perswaded that the Scriptures are the word of God Will you give me leave to tell you my Opinion It is this in briefe When men upon
this Relator professeth and teacheth a blind Charity sutable to his Faith which he boldly affirmeth to be not a mistaken Charity in granting that a silly ignorant Papist so living and dying may be Saved by his Ignorance in that Religion conforming himselfe to his Religious life and on the contrary condemning such Protestants of stiffenesse and churlishnesse that are not of the same Charity with him though the Replyer proveth that there is no true Charity without true Faith and Verity And whereas the same Relator is shewed in this Reply to give much more liberty to your Majesties Protestant People to goâ— to the Romish Masse as being with him one and the same undiffering Religion with that of England then the Jesuite doth to his blind Romanist to come to the English Church And whereas the same Relator hath many passages wherein he makes a Generall Councell of Prelates Iudge in all Controversies of Faith ascribing unto them an Infallibility and in case they shall erre and that even in grosse things and points of Faith yet that all men are bound to yeeld obedience at least externall till another Generall Counsell equall to the former reverse those Errours whereupon by Consequence of this Prelaticall doctrine as the Replyer doth instance the Church of England it self is bound to observe the worship of Images and the forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament c. decreed in Generall Councels and not yet reversed by other Generall Councels equall to those And whereas the Relator calls Transubstantiation Purgatory and the forbearance of the Cup but disputable and Improbable Questions the nature of which is to be taken indifferently Pro and Con And whereas he never once in all his Relation calls the Romish-worship of Images and of the Sacrament or any other Idolatry in all the Romish Church but onely by the name of Superstition abstaining altogether from the name of Idolatry as if with him the Roman Church were no Idolatresse And whereas he much lamenteth the Seperation and rent between the Protestants and Rome with the continuance of it although with the Iesuite he confesse that errour in Faith is just cause of separation And whereas he the same Relator doth cunningly yet palpably enough in sundry passages of his Booke as also he hath openly done viva voce at the High-Commission-Board exclude all the Reformed Protestant Churches beyond the Seaes as no Churches of Christ as not admitting the Hierarchy Finally also in his Book quipping Luther and in him all the Reformed Churches as having made a rent not onely from Rome with her corruptions but even from the Catholick Church it selfe which indeed in the Relators sense and difinition of the Catholicke Church is most true to wit from the universall Hierarchy And whereas he the Relator doth every where highly extoll his Ceremonies in Gods worship as without which he saith there is no light left to shine before men that they may see his Devotion and so glorify GOD therein most foulely and odiously perverting and abusing the holy Text of Scripture uttered by CHRIST to a cleane other purpose as the Replyer hath noted all which Ceremonies being a will-worship after the Tradition and Commandement of men the Apostle doth utterly condemn as wherby the very merits of Christs death are made of none effect who in his death destroyed All Ceremonies in Religion obliging the Conscience and not onely the Leviticâ—ll but all other whatsoever of humane Ordinance as the Replyer clearely proveth So as it is not left to any Power on Earth to impose the least Ceremony yea though it be of nature indifferent to bind the Conscience in the service of GOD seeing all such imposition is Antichristian Tyranny And whereas all Prelaticall Hereticall and Antichristian Faction erected by the Prince of darkenesse against Iesus Christ and his Kingdome as is apparent both by their profession and practice wherein they have nothing at all yea not any one thing to show wherein they resemble either Christ or any one of his Apostles except Iudas Christs Kingdome being altogether spirituall and not of this world but the Hierarchy a meere carnall and worldly Kingdome onely guilded over with the bare name of spirituall And whereas the Relator throughout his whole Booke bewrayeth his most palpable and profound ignorance and notorious blindnesse in the whole mystery of Faith and all true divinity in so much as when ever he Cites Scripture he still perverts it to a wrong sense and is not able to bring any proofe either from Scripture or Common Reason except from some of his Jesuiticall Authors for any of his Paradoxes and strange doctrines delivering all without Book tanquam è Cathedra as but of some Papall unerring Chaire upon the Authority of his bare word and upon meere trust And whereas the Relator saith That worth once misled is of all other the greatest misleader and who of greater worth in the Church of England and in the Esteem of Great ones too then the Great Primate himselfe whose very word with many is taken as a divine Oracle So as if the Church and State of England will but pin their soules upon this Leaders sleeve he will not fayle to lead them in that way the issue whereof seem it never so right in the eyes of credulity will certainly prove to be as Solomon saith the wayes of death And whereas by the Relator sundry occasions are ministred to the Replyer of instancing divers practises charged upon the Prelate as the principall Agent or Instrument of setting up sundry Innovations in Religion in the Church of England all which have been done under his Primacie as The republishing under your Majesties Name the Book for liberty of profane Sports on the Lords day with pressing Ministers to read the Sayd Book in their severall Congregations and upon refusall extreamely persecuting them and thrusting them from their Ministry and meanes with their poore wives and children The authorizing and licencing of some Doctors Books which cry down the Morality of the 4 th Commandement for the Sanctifying of the Lords Sabbath day The setting forth of a New Order to restraine Preachers from Preaching in the Afternoones on the Lords dayes much pressed by the Prelates and their Officers in all their visitations The setting forth of a Declaration in your Majesties Name prefixed to the Articles of Religion which the Prelates practises plainly interpret to be for the restraining and prohibiting altogether the Doctrines of Saving Grace to be preached and wherein the genuine sense of those Articles touching Grace which formerly were universally interpreted to have but one sence agreeable to the Scripture is confounded with the heterodox hereticall doctrines of the Pelagians and Arminians so as none can tell what to make of those Articles saving that by this meanes the Orthodox Ministers must not preach the truth and the Adverse party and Faction may find footing and countenance for their groundlesse and gracelesse heresies and all this to the manifest
of your House-hold Gods With Sacred Corn and savory Salt by oddes Yea and every Schoole-boy knowes that Distich of old Cato Si Deus est animus nobis ut carmina dicunt Hic tibi praecipuè sit pura mente colendus If God as Poems say a Spirit be Then with pure mind let him be serv'd of thee And as the Roman Orator also said Non in Ambrosia Deus c. I doe not think saith he that God is delighted with Ambrosia or Nectar or such like sensuall delights in his Service Tuscul. Quaest. lib. 1. Thus you see how those Heathen even by the glimmering light of nature had a better opinion of God then our modern Prelates have or at least then our present Oracle of Canterbury hath shewed himselfe to have for how neere came they to that truth uttered by Christ God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth c. And if you propound the Jewes for example of State in the service of God first God commanded it and the magnificence of it was a Type of Christ and of his Spirituall Temples all glorious within Those Types are all vanished the truth being come And to revive that Service and those Types or to set up an Image of them you doe with the Jewes deny Christ to be come And for this Ierome shall answere you Si placeat aurum placeat et Iudaei If gold please you so well in the service of God let the Jewes also and Judaisme please you And the Poet Dicite Pontifices in Templo quid facit aurum Tell us you Pontificiall Priests what makes gold in the Temple And tell me whether was Adam and Eve more beautifull in Gods eyes and their own too having no other cloathing or ornaments upon them but their naked Innocencie then in their new devised fashion of Fig-leave-Aprons Although they now seemed gay with their borrowed leaves as the Crow with his borrowed feathers And surely this may be a very fit patterne to Sample your Church by For yours and Romes Church having lost their Primitive and Originall beauty of Innocencie Simplicity and Purity of Christs Spouse as the Love of God Saving Faith Soundnesse of Doctrine Sanctity of Conversation and Purity of his Worship which you have by so many of your Superstitions so miserably corrupted think you now to please GOD with a curious painted Service which serves to no other purpose then to please your owne fancie and other mens carnall senses Is not this a GREAT WITNES to the World of your notorious blindnesse and most grosse and palpable ignorance of the very nature of the Godhead who Is a Spirit and therefore will be worshiped in Spirit and truth And they who thus worship him in Spirit and Truth are the true Worshipers as the same Scripture Speakes and GOD seeketh such to worship him as is noted before So as that Inscription which the Apostle found upon that Altar in Athens Agnósto Theo To the unknowne God may it not be written as well upon your whole service which you dedicate to the unknowne God which being patched up like a Fooles gay Coate of so many diverse coloured shreddes wherein your service being dressed up you think it is wondrous pleasing to God doth not all this bewray that you doe all this service to a God whom you know not as whom your fancie frameth to be some carnall Man whose senses are delighted with such service as his Eares with Organs his Eyes with goodly Images curious wrought Copes rich Palls faire guilded Plate his Smell with sweet Incense his Majesty with siting upon your Stately High Altar as upon his Throne and to keep his Residence in your goodly Cathedrall as in his Royall Court May not then that which the Apostle thereupon Preached to the Athenian Philosophers be hereupon applyed to the Romish Rabbies and blind Prelates of Rome and of the Church of England Ye men of the Church of England I perceive that in all things ye are too Superstitious For as I passed by and beheld your Devotions marke your Devotions I found an Altar for blind Devotion cannot be without an Altar with this Inscription To the unknown God whom therefore ye ignorantly worship him declare I unto you God that made the world and all things therein seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth dwelleth not in Temples made with hands neither is worshiped with mens hands as though he needed any thing c. Forasmuch then as we are the Offspring of GOD we ought not to thinke that the Godhead is like unto Gold or Silver or Stone graven by art and mans devise And the times of this Ignorance GOD winked at but now commandeth all men every where to Repent Because he hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in Righteousnesse c. Now what say you to this all you blind Ceremony-Mongers Are you growne so stupid as not to be sensible how this toucheth you as much yea and much more then those Athenians What Are you so blind and senselesse as for all this to dreame that GOD accepts your ga◠Puppet-play as a Service of Piety done to him Nay GOD tooke so little delight in those Sacrifices and Rites which himselfe ordained in the Law and much lesse when the people rested in the outward performance and observance of them that he Saith Who required these things at your hands to tread in my Courts c. So also Psal. 50.8 I will not reprove thee for thy Sacrifices to have been continually before me I will take no bullocke out of thy house c. No Who so offereth me thanks and praise honoureth me and to him that ordereth his Conversation aright will I shew the Salvation of God Now consider this ye that forget God least I teare you in pieces and there be none to deliver Yea the consideration hereof brought Christ down from the bosome of his Father to offer up his body as the onely acceptable and All sufficient Sacrifice to put an end to all carnall rites and services If then Gods own Ordinances in the Law did not please him but that he must send his Sonne in the flesh to fullfill all things then what hope can you have that your vaine Superstitious devises should please GOD or that he should otherwise be affected with them but thereby to be provoked to send his Sonne the Second time in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God even all blind worshipers but much more willfully blind such as obey not the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ c. Then shall all your Sumptuous Ceremonies and Solemne Service be discovered and the rotten inside of your hypocriticall formalities be turned out to the view of all the world Like to Cardinall Campeius his Sumpter which with a justle in Cheape-side the girts bursting downe it falls and out fly the old Boots and Shooes and
Rome What thankes the Church of England may returne you I know not But thus did not any of your Predecessors ever And have you more Charity or more Devotion then they had And for the hope in you whereof you give account to the world and your faith testified wherein you have lived and resolve to dye I will say as Ierome said to the Pelagians Sententias vestras prodidisse Superasse est The discovery of your opinions is our victory So thus to give account of your hope and testifie your faith to all the world as that wherein you have lived and resolve to dye Let 's see by your own testimony now irrevocably upon Record what to judge of you formerly namely as of one Qui cum Lacte nutricis errorem Suxisse videatur who seemeth to have sucked in Errour with his Nurses Milke As the Orator Speakes of all naturall men and what to expect of you hereafter that as you have lived a most notorious Persecuter of the truth of Christ and of his Saints So we must look for it Still so long as you live And this is our victory that we have to deale with one who is not now any longer a disguised but unmasked Enemy of the true Faith and Religion of JESUS CHRIST And however you may flatter your selfe in regard of the World and favour in Court yet if you repent not of your former life but dye as you have lived you can have neither hope nor faith in expecting Gods blessing or favour And so I passe from your Dedicatory to your Discourse as followeth THE REPLIE TO THE RELATION OF THE CONFERENCE L. p. 2. IT is very fit the People should look to the Iudgement of the Church before they be too busie with particulars But yet neither the Scripture nor any good Authority denyes them some moderate use of their own understanding and judgement especially in things familiar and evident which even ordinary Capacities may as easily understand as read And therefore some particulars a Christian may judge without depending P. What you meane by Church you have told us before namely that wherein your Church of England and that of Rome are one and the same one Prelaticall and Hierarchicall Church out of which are excluded all those Reformed Churches which neither have nor acknowledge Prelates to be of divine Institution We have also made a Say of the difficulties So as it is no difficulty to divine what Christians we are like to prove in understanding and judgement in the mystery of Faith and Salvation when we must be limited to that narrow Scantling of some moderate use of our owne understanding and Iudgement and that but in things familiar and evident to every ordinary Capacity O poore Christians that for Understanding in the Scripture must be at the allowance of Antichristian Lords who would bring into bondage Gods people by Chaining them up in Darknesse and Ignorance and doe with them as Nahash the Ammonite answered the men of Iabeth Gilead On this condition will I make a Covenant with you that I may thrust out all your right eyes and lay it for a reproach upon all Israel But the Apostle exhorts Christians Saying Be not children in understanding howbeit in malice be children but in understanding Téleio ginesthe be perfect And Leaving the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ Let us goe on unto perfection And Strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age even those who by reason of use have their Senses exercised to discerne both good and evill But you allow Christians onely some moderate use of their owne understanding and that in things familiar and evident which men of ordinary Capacities may as easily understand as read So as what they read except with the very reading they doe as easily understand it as they read it they must not meditate further of it but in what they presently upon the reading understand not they must depend upon your Churches judgement So as you would exclude your Christians from being of those blessed men of whom David Speakes which delight in the Law of the Lord and in his Law to meditate day and night You would not have them with use to exercise their wits and Senses to discerne 〈◊〉 good and evill Yea the Apostle useth a word very emphaticall diâ— tò exin by an habituall use or long custome have their Senses gegumnasmâ—na exercised the word properly signifieth such an exercise as Wrastlers or such as contend for victory doe use which is with all their might and strength being train'd up unto it by long exercise So as the Scripture doth not onely not forbid but Commands and exhorts Christians to all diligence in the Study of the Scriptures That their hearts might be comforted being knit together in love and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the aknowledgement of the Mystery of God as the Apostle speakes And Let the word of God dwell in you richly in all wisedome teaching and admonishing one another c. And the Bereans are Said to be dugenésteroi more noble then those of Thesselonica in that they received the word with all readinesse of mind and searched the Scriptures dayly whether those things were so which Paul taught Loe â—ere they examined Pauls Doctrine by the Scriptures they depended not upon his bare word and therefore the Holy Ghost markes them forth for men of a more noble spirit But you would have your Christians to be poore and beggerly in the knowledge of the mystery of Christ and to be so base-minded as in all things which are not obvious to every Capacity to depend meerely upon your Church-Authority and Judgement So as what you meane hereby except to bring into your Church of England the Iesuiticall blind obedience captivating the peoples senses to your Dictates that they might pinne their Salvation and Faith upon your Priests Sleeve I cannot imagine Which will appeare yet more clearely at after Againe these words of yours are in Answere to the Jesuit's words namely That it was not for the Lady or any other unlearned Persons to take upon them to judge of Particulars without depending upon the Iudgement of the true Church To which all your Answere in full is as before Wherein you easily let the Jesuite slip and run away with this that the Church of Rome is that true Church on whose Iudgement for Particulars all unlearned Persons must depend But you understand the true Church to be that wherein you told us before your Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same And so for Rome to be a true Church you plainly confesse at after But your words here may stand you in very good Stead to be a faire Item to all the Readers of your Booke not to be too busie with the Particulars of it but first to look to the Iudgement of the Church of England whose mouth you seem to be in this
that coming as neare as you can to the Papists in their Ceremonies you shall thereby bring them to the Church And surely this is the ready way either to bring Papists to your Church or you to their Church But I say the Church was so pestered with Rites and Ceremonies even in Augustins dayes that he complained that Christians were now in a worse case and condition under the Gospel then the Iewes were under the Law for though their yoake was grievous yet those Leviticall rites were of Gods owne ordaining and commandement but Christians saith he are brought under an intolerable yoake of Ceremonies of mens devising and imposing But now on the other side if I should enter into a Comparison between the Reformed Churches since Luther and those Primitive and ancient Churches as aforesaid I know it would be very tedious to your Lordship and extremely move your Patience especially if I should by many degrees preferre Calvin Bezâ— Zanchius Iunius and many hundred more Worthies both for learning and piety and chiefly for Soundnesse in Doctrine in the Reformed Churches beyond the Seaes yea and not a few on this side as Cranmer Ridley Latimer Hooper all Martyrs Iewel Whitakers Reynolds Perkins with infinite more and all within one Century before such as those Centuries aforesayd produced whose Names for Envy-sake I forbeare to mention Lastly you say you are content to submit to them in all those points of Doctrine If you be then for Shame cleare away those Cloudes which the said Declaration hath over-cast your Articles withall and cast away your Arminian Pelagian sense and take off your Suspension of them and let them speak one single truth as they formerly did and as all understood them according to the Scriptures L. p. 62. The Catholicke Church we beleeve in our Creed to be the Society of all Christians P. What you beleeve is one thing But we beleeve the Catholicke Church of Christ in the Creed to be the number and Society of all the Elect as the next Article expounds it The Communion of Saints but not that Company of all Christians which you name and meane Christians in name and profession tag and ragge pell mell good and bad Papists and Protestants of which the greatest number are no true living members of the true Catholick Church the mysticall body whereof Christ is the Head and which by Faith onely we apprehend for we beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church but cannot discerne with our bodily eyes as we doe a visible Object This is that Church which Christ loved for which he gave himselfe that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word to present it to himselfe a glorious Church not having spot or wrinckle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish This we beleeve to be the Holy Catholicke Church and no other But thus indeed as you tell us before you make wider the Gates of the Catholicke Church then ever Christ made them or rather indeed you exclude the Catholicke Church of Gods Elect and set up a new Catholicke Church which may be seen but ought not to be beleeved L. p. 66. Agreed on for me also it shal be that Gods word may be written and unwritten P. Agreed on with whom Even with no lesse then Bellarmine For in the very next words you give us the reason why it is agreed upon for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten For Say you Cardinall Bellarmine tells us truely that it is not the writing or Printing that makes Scripture the word of God but it is the Prime unerring Essentiall Truth God himselfe uttering and revealing it to his Church that makes it Verbum Dei the word of God Doth Bellarmine say so And that truely And to what end I pray you doth the Cardinall say so Is it not to overthrow the Scripture for being the Sole word of God and to bring in another word of God which he calls verbum non Scriptum an unwritten word that is a word besides the Scriptures and equall to the Scriptures which is Romes unwritten Traditions And to this end and purpose Bellarmine using these words doth he tell you truely and is this the reason for which it is agreed on for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten Now though it be true that that which is spoken by God is his word though it be not written yet to us there is now no other word of God but that which is written that which is contained in the Scriptures And this word written is that alone which our Faith is grounded and settled upon According to that of Iohn Many other Signes truely did Iesus in the presence of his Disciples which are not written in this Booke But these things are written that ye might beleeve that Iesus is the Christ the Son of God and that beleeving ye might have life through his Name So as we are not to inquire further what Christ spake or did besides what we find written But your Lordship tells us before of certaine Traditions Apostolicall which it seems are that word of God which may be unwritten For you say If the Scripture be a Foundation to which we are to goe for witnesse if there â—e doubt about the Faith and in which we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as necessary in the Faith we never did nor never will refuse any Tradition that is Vniversall and Apostolicke for the better exposition of the Scripture And to this place you referre that which you say pag. 58. As for Tradition I have said enough for that and as much as A. C. where 't is truely Apostolicall From which words first we observe that you make but an If of the Scripture as a Foundation If the Scripture be a Foundation and If in it we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as If it were to be found in any thing else And Secondly how home you come to A C. the Jesuite in admitting Tradition Apostolicke to expound any doubt about the Faith and so with Bellarmine you are agreed for a word of God unwritten as well as written And you further adde here pag. 66. Speaking of the Scriptures their being written gave them no Authority at all in regard of themselves Written or unwritten the Word was the same But it was written that it might be the better preserved and continued with the more integrity to the use of the Church and the more faithfully in our memories So you Now 't is true that by the writing of the Scripturâ—s Gods word contained therein is preserved continued in integrity and the more faithfully kept in our mâ—mories But is thiâ— all Nay the very writing of them though it added no Authority to Gods word in regard of it selfe yet as the Scriptures are to us Gods word is of the greater Authority because written For we acknowledge no other word of God as
F 6 ly But since this Division say you nothing hath been done by you to discredit this Principle That the Scripture is the word of God No Nothing Not when you say The light which is in Scripture it selfe is not bright enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe Not when you say The Scripture is a light but as a Candle that yeelds no light till first it be lighted by Tradition of the present Church Not when you say That Scripture to be the word of God is not so demonstratively evident à priore that is of and by it selfe primarily as to inforce assent Not when you say Such a full light we doe neither say is nor require to be in Scripture as is in Prime Principles which carry a naturall light with them Is not this point blank against this Principle That Scripture is the word of God Not when you say God doth not require a full Demonstrative Knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word and therfore in his Providence hath kindled in it no light for that Not when you say That the Scripture cannot beare witnesse to it selfe nor one part of it to another And yet in all this and much more hath nothing been done by you to discredit this Principle That Scripture is the word of God Now let the Lord of the Scripture whose Word it is and all the Children of Truth be Judge in this matter against you G. 7 ly Yet you dare say more that you have given it all honour and ascribed unto it more sufficiencie as more then all even to the containing of all things necessary unto Salvation with satis superque enough and more then enough How enough and more then enough What A worke of Superarogation or superarrogancie rather Now fie for shame Will no bounds of Sober Speech contain your lawlesse spirit but that you must cast it in Gods dish That you had ascribed to his Word all honour and more sufficiencie and more then enough Had you yet turned Lyrinensis his word in the margent superque Abundantly it had been both more agreeable to reason and not lesse disagreeing with Grammer Certainly it had become you of all other to have qualified the construction of Satis superque better considering what palpable hand and harsh language you have dasht the Credit of Gods most holy Bible withall Extreames are not good And your Hypocrisie here is too grosly counterfeited Just as some Gentlewomans bad face for want of Art is daubed so much with laying on of Colours that it is ridiculous to every beholder And how say you in the truth of your heart were there any there that the Scripture containeth all things necessary to Salvation when it doth not containt tha assertion of yours That the Scripture is not known to be the word of God but by the Authority and Tradition of the present Church When yet this That the Scripture is the word of God is by your own expresse Confession one of the greatest Principles of beliefe H 8 ly For your going the same way with the Jesuites partly your whole Booke and partly all your practises doe Satis superque superabundantly witnesse Onely you say you cannot goe so farre in that way with them to make the present Tradition Alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten No not Alwaies Infallible I hope Onely somtimes perhaps Infallible when you say the word of God And if your present Tradition be not alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten I pray you is it at any time an unwritten word of God If it be then at such a time especially when its Infallibility is in Season is it not Infallible For Gods word is alwayes Infallible be it written or when he speaks it from heaven But when shall we se the time when you will prove your present Tradition to be a word of God unwritten or to have any Ground at all in written word of God the Scripture But if your present Church Tradition be not alwaies infallible but that somtimes at least it may deceive us certainly I conceive our safest course wil be alwayes to goe immediately and directly the shortest Cut to the Scripture it selfe which I am sure is alwaies Infallible and will never deceive us and not at any time to depend upon your present Tradition which is not alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten But me thinks I heare you say That you make not the present Tradition An Infallible word of God unwritten No not absolutely not Alwaies We understand English But if you could prove This your present Tradition to be but somtimes an infallible word of God unwritten in the use at least you put it to it were no great Mastery to conclude it to be in that case Alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten and so you should by this way of the Jesuites come full home to Rome But I hope you will more clearely and fully expresse your selfe in this grand point when to use your own words before It shall fit Time and Place In the meane time if this be not the genuine sense which I have picked but not stollen for the interpretation is Grammaticall and sensible out of your words then I confesse your meaning is more abstruse and mysticall then can be gathered from your manner of expression your words having a tang of that confusion of tongues at the building of that old Tower But the summe of it is Here is the grand difference between you and Rome She makes her Tradition alwayes a word of God unwritten unfallible you yours not Alwayes somtimes therfore and so it is blasphemy But at length pag. 127. the Lady calls you from the point of Church Tradition to heare what you will say of the Church of Rome whether you will Confesse it to be the Right Church And saith the Jesuite the Bishop granted that it was Now if the Lady were not dead as elswhere you tell us I should give her hearty thanks for being an occasion of delivering us out of this Purgatory-lake of your tedious irksome and endlesse Discourse of your present Tradition wherein otherwise it is to be feared you lye so long till you had been drowned in your own puddle or burnt up with your own hot zeale But let us heare your Answere to the Jesuites relation of what you granted L. p. 128. There is a great deale of difference between The Church and A Church and some between a True Church and a Right Church For the Church may import in our language The onely True Church and perhaps the root and ground of the Catholick And this I never did grant of the Roman Church nor never meane to doe But A Church can imply no more then that it is a member of the whole And this I never did nor never will deny if it fall not absolutely away from Christ. That it is a True Church I granted also but not a Right