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put_v under_o the_o elbow_n of_o all_o age_n it_o be_v a_o great_a danger_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n lest_o perchance_o by_o perverse_a interpretation_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v make_v the_o gospel_n of_o man_n or_o which_o be_v worse_o the_o gospel_n of_o the_o devil_n thus_o far_o saint_n hieromes_n word_n which_o i_o think_v without_o more_o ado_n may_v easy_o answer_v your_o whole_a argument_n for_o in_o they_o this_o holy_a father_n say_v as_o much_o or_o more_o as_o all_o those_o epithet_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o our_o several_a author_n put_v together_o and_o withal_o show_v in_o what_o sense_n they_o be_v to_o be_v take_v so_o as_o if_o you_o will_v say_v any_o more_o of_o this_o matter_n you_o must_v undertake_v the_o quarrel_n against_o saint_n hierome_n you_o may_v do_v well_o also_o to_o note_v the_o very_a first_o word_n martion_n basilides_n &_o caeterae_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la pest_n among_o who_o you_o have_v your_o part_n 6._o 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essay_n of_o your_o poor_a endeavour_n to_o make_v the_o world_n see_v it_o be_v no_o difficult_a matter_n for_o a_o mean_a lay_v man_n to_o prove_v the_o ancient_a visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a profession_n provoke_v thereto_o by_o a_o iesuit_n challenge_n to_o show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n that_o the_o protestant_n church_n be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n before_o luther_n and_o this_o you_o undertake_v to_o do_v not_o only_o out_o of_o the_o most_o orthodox_n father_n but_o alsoe_o out_o of_o the_o romish_a bishop_n doctor_n cardinal_n etc._n etc._n this_o essay_n of_o your_o labour_n sir_n humphrey_n be_v poor_a indeed_o not_o to_o stand_v complementinge_v with_o you_o as_o i_o shall_v after_o show_v and_o for_o your_o proof_n out_o of_o father_n and_o other_o writer_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n we_o shall_v there_o also_o see_v what_o once_o they_o be_v that_o be_v either_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n or_o out_o of_o author_n brand_v with_o the_o mark_n of_o 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to_o find_v out_o the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n more_o spiritual_a and_o less_o subject_a to_o the_o sense_n by_o that_o which_o be_v corporal_a and_o more_o subject_a to_o the_o view_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n for_o this_o be_v the_o way_n that_o all_o scholar_n in_o the_o teach_n of_o all_o science_n take_v to_o wit_n to_o begin_v with_o that_o which_o be_v know_v and_o evident_a and_o by_o it_o to_o come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o that_o which_o be_v hide_v according_a to_o aristotel_n doctrine_n 6._o and_o this_o have_v ever_o be_v the_o way_n which_o the_o holy_a father_n have_v take_v either_o in_o prove_v the_o catholic_a faith_n or_o disprovinge_v of_o heresy_n so_o tertullian_n marcio_n tertullian_n praescrip_n cap._n 32._o &_o lib._n 3._o car_n adu_fw-la marcio_n so_o irenaeus_n 43.45.46_o irenaeus_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 1.2.3_o &_o lib._n 4._o cap._n 43.45.46_o so_o cyprian_n 76._o cyprian_n ep_v 52._o &_o 76._o optatus_n parm._n optatus_n lib._n 2._o adver_v parm._n and_o most_o of_o all_o that_o great_a doctor_n s._n augustine_n 7._o augustine_n psal_n 2._o part_n don._n &_o ep_n 165._o &_o the_o util_a credend_a cap._n 7._o in_o several_a place_n and_o particular_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr utilitate_fw-la credenai_fw-la where_o write_n to_o his_o friend_n honoratus_n who_o he_o labour_v to_o draw_v from_o the_o manichaean_n heresy_n and_o put_v case_n that_o he_o do_v doubt_v what_o religion_n to_o follow_v he_o say_v without_o doubt_n he_o be_v to_o begin_v his_o enquiry_n from_o the_o catholic_a church_n proculdubio_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la catholica_fw-la sumendum_fw-la exordium_n for_o say_v he_o whereas_o there_o be_v among_o christian_n many_o heresy_n all_o which_o desire_v to_o seem_v catholic_n and_o call_v other_o haeretique_n there_o be_v one_o church_n as_o all_o grant_n if_o you_o regard_v the_o whole_a world_n refertior_fw-la multitudine_fw-la ut_fw-la autem_fw-la qui_fw-la noverunt_fw-la affirmant_fw-la 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own_o author_n and_o why_o may_v not_o he_o do_v the_o like_a to_o we_o for_o the_o reason_n be_v clean_o different_a they_o have_v no_o public_a authority_n which_o can_v define_v what_o be_v faith_n and_o what_o not_o but_o that_o be_v leave_v not_o only_o to_o every_o private_a doctor_n or_o minister_n but_o to_o every_o private_a lay_v man_n and_o woman_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o convince_a proof_n to_o urge_v one_o particular_a protestant_a doctor_n be_v authority_n against_o another_o there_o be_v not_o two_o among_o they_o of_o one_o opinion_n whole_o much_o less_o one_o bind_v to_o answer_n for_o the_o other_o yet_o we_o be_v fain_o and_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n use_v it_o because_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o may_v urge_v they_o authority_n of_o church_n they_o have_v none_o scripture_n they_o have_v indeed_o but_o so_o mangle_v corrupt_a pervert_v by_o translation_n and_o misinterpret_v according_a to_o 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all_o this_o which_o here_o i_o say_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v suppose_v that_o indeed_o he_o cite_v catholic_a author_n and_o cite_v they_o true_o as_o here_o he_o promise_v which_o promise_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v true_a cite_n how_o he_o perform_v i_o shall_v afterward_o make_v manifest_a here_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v a_o word_n concern_v his_o author_n who_o he_o promise_v we_o shall_v be_v catholic_n whereas_o indeed_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o be_v either_o know_v haeretique_n or_o some_o such_o man_n as_o though_o with_o much_o ado_n they_o may_v pass_v for_o catholic_n as_o erasmus_n cornelius_n agrippa_n cassander_n and_o the_o like_a yet_o they_o give_v themselves_o so_o much_o liberty_n in_o they_o writing_n as_o they_o come_v to_o be_v note_v for_o it_o and_o their_o work_n forbid_v of_o which_o i_o will_v not_o therefore_o make_v any_o account_n as_o no_o other_o catholic_n do_v but_o when_o i_o come_v to_o such_o authoritye_n as_o there_o be_v many_o 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name_v but_o by_o way_n of_o forbid_v they_o and_o by_o way_n of_o command_a bishop_n to_o reform_v such_o thing_n even_o as_o delegate_n of_o the_o see_v apostolic_a where_o there_o be_v need_n which_o be_v so_o apparent_a that_o the_o knight_n be_v fain_o to_o confess_v it_o after_o in_o these_o word_n neither_o do_v these_o man_n seek_v reformation_n in_o manner_n only_o but_o in_o the_o doctrine_n itself_o wherein_o together_o with_o the_o contradiction_n of_o his_o own_o former_a lie_n he_o tell_v a_o new_a one_o to_o wit_n in_o say_v that_o we_o seek_v a_o reformation_n in_o the_o doctrine_n whereof_o he_o name_v some_o particular_a point_n as_o private_a mass_n latin_a service_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v most_o false_a for_o the_o doctrine_n be_v the_o same_o still_o and_o ever_o be_v that_o though_o the_o fruit_n be_v great_a when_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n sacramental_o yet_o the_o mass_n in_o that_o case_n be_v neither_o unlawful_a not_o be_v 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that_o have_v ordinary_a common_a sense_n you_o condemn_v all_o mass_n the_o council_n allow_v it_o you_o condemn_v private_a mass_n the_o council_n approve_v that_o which_o you_o call_v private_a mass_n but_o deni_v that_o it_o be_v so_o call_v private_a as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o the_o council_n speak_v of_o mass_n the_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o new_a law_n you_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v it_o speak_v of_o your_o sacrilegious_a supper_n in_o our_o mass_n and_o communion_n as_o the_o council_n teach_v be_v offer_v and_o distribute_v the_o true_a real_a and_o substantial_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n jesus_n and_o what_o it_o say_v hereof_o you_o must_v mad_o will_v make_v i_o believe_v be_v speak_v of_o your_o empty_a and_o imaginary_a communion_n the_o council_n teach_v that_o the_o mass_n be_v not_o general_o to_o be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n you_o will_v all_o public_a prayer_n so_o make_v and_o therefore_o condemn_v the_o catholic_a church_n for_o celebrate_v in_o latin_a which_o the_o council_n allow_v o_o madness_n of_o a_o man_n then_o to_o talk_v thus_o as_o if_o the_o council_n come_v near_o to_o he_o when_o it_o say_v yea_o to_o his_o nay_o and_o nay_o to_o his_o yea_o 9_o but_o have_v thus_o substantial_o prove_v the_o council_n to_o agree_v with_o he_o and_o find_v other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o so_o evident_o against_o he_o he_o will_v needs_o have_v the_o council_n contradict_v itself_o and_o for_o that_o end_n bring_v certain_a contradiction_n as_o he_o wise_o take_v they_o to_o be_v one_o be_v that_o the_o pope_n in_o his_o bull_n of_o profession_n of_o faith_n say_v that_o the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n be_v most_o wholesome_a for_o the_o people_n for_o which_o he_o may_v have_v cite_v also_o the_o council_n more_o thou_o once_o and_o that_o yet_o the_o council_n confess_v the_o scandal_n that_o come_v by_o they_o be_v very_o great_a with_o out_o hope_v of_o reformation_n which_o be_v 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approve_v mass_n in_o a_o un_fw-mi know_v tongue_n and_o yet_o will_v have_v the_o priest_n especial_o upon_o sunday_n and_o holiday_n to_o declare_v some_o of_o that_o which_o be_v read_v or_o some_o mystery_n of_o the_o holy_a mass_n do_v not_o these_o two_o agree_v very_o well_o i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o the_o man_n mean_v 10._o and_o to_o conclude_v this_o wise_a section_n he_o talk_v somewhat_o of_o reformation_n hinder_v by_o some_o principal_a man_n as_o one_o nicolas_n scomberg_n a_o dominican_n cardinal_n cite_v four_o or_o five_o most_o haeretical_a book_n namely_o forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n and_o among_o they_o the_o history_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n not_o name_v in_o the_o index_n because_o it_o come_v out_o since_o but_o write_v by_o a_o arche-haeretique_a and_o no_o less_o detest_v by_o catholic_n then_o any_o of_o the_o rest_n which_o i_o pass_v over_o as_o of_o no_o account_n nor_o allege_v to_o any_o purpose_n as_o for_o reformation_n who_o can_v say_v it_o be_v hinder_v but_o only_o by_o haeretique_n for_o what_o else_o have_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v but_o reform_v all_o abuse_n of_o manner_n where_o it_o be_v or_o can_v be_v receive_v and_o for_o error_n of_o faith_n teach_v by_o haeretique_n it_o have_v utter_o condemn_v they_o and_o banish_v they_o from_o the_o ear_n of_o all_o catholic_n what_o reformation_n then_o have_v it_o hinder_v but_o the_o haeretical_a reformation_n whereunto_o cardinal_n scomberg_n say_v well_o if_o you_o and_o your_o history_n of_o trent_n say_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o way_n to_o yield_v a_o iott_n to_o haeretique_n for_o it_o be_v not_o indeed_o for_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o be_v to_o the_o contrary_a show_v thereby_o that_o the_o way_n to_o overcome_v haeresy_n be_v whole_o to_o resist_v it_o and_o though_o that_o thing_n which_o the_o haeretique_n teach_v or_o will_v have_v practise_v be_v before_o indifferent_a yet_o for_o their_o urge_v the_o same_o upon_o their_o haeretical_a ground_n it_o have_v be_v absolute_o forbid_v lest_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v yield_v to_o they_o and_o so_o confirm_v they_o or_o draw_v other_o to_o believe_v they_o or_o their_o doctrine_n who_o to_o reprehend_v and_o contradict_v the_o catholic_a church_n many_o time_n make_v thing_n of_o indifferency_n to_o be_v of_o necessity_n that_o they_o forsooth_o may_v seem_v the_o only_a wiseman_n in_o the_o world_n and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n subject_n to_o error_n which_o i_o can_v prove_v by_o many_o example_n if_o need_n be_v and_o herewith_o i_o make_v a_o end_n of_o this_o chapter_n wherein_o i_o have_v disprove_v the_o knight_n and_o convince_v he_o of_o manifest_a falsehood_n in_o both_o the_o thing_n by_o he_o pretend_v show_v in_o the_o one_o that_o the_o council_n acknowledge_v not_o any_o corruption_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o by_o haeretique_n and_o in_o the_o other_o that_o for_o corruption_n of_o manner_n which_o it_o acknowledge_v it_o have_v use_v all_o possible_a mean_n to_o redress_v they_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n 4._o section_n whereof_o the_o title_n be_v this_o that_o many_o learned_a romanist_n convict_v by_o the_o evidence_n of_o truth_n either_o in_o part_n or_o in_o whole_a have_v renounce_v popery_n before_o their_o death_n chapter_n four_o 1._o i_o can_v here_o before_o i_o go_v far_o ask_v what_o this_o make_v for_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o knight_n his_o church_n for_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a and_o that_o we_o do_v yield_v he_o his_o say_n that_o many_o have_v fall_v from_o the_o catholic_a faith_n to_o be_v protestant_n as_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o many_o have_v for_o otherwise_o there_o have_v never_o be_v any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n do_v this_o make_v his_o church_n visible_a in_o former_a time_n or_o do_v
acknowledge_v inhaerent_a justification_n which_o caluin_n deni_v though_o in_o this_o he_o err_v that_o he_o think_v that_o inhaerent_a justify_n form_n to_o be_v imperfect_a and_o insufficient_a of_o itself_o to_o make_v man_n the_o adoptive_a child_n of_o god_n without_o the_o imputative_a justice_n of_o christ_n which_o alsoe_o be_v not_o so_o much_o caluinisme_n as_o lutheranisme_n but_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v bellarmine_n excuse_v pighius_fw-la in_o another_o respect_n to_o wit_n because_o he_o do_v not_o obstinate_o defend_v the_o error_n as_o caluin_n or_o luther_n do_v which_o be_v the_o main_a difference_n for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o error_n but_o the_o obstinacy_n that_o make_v a_o haeretique_n and_o so_o you_o see_v sir_n knight_n you_o have_v not_o one_o true_a word_n in_o all_o this_o section_n but_o let_v we_o now_o see_v your_o next_o 5._o chap._n 5._o the_o knight_n 5._o section_n wherein_o he_o undertake_v to_o show_v how_o worldly_a policy_n and_o profitt_a hinder_v the_o reformation_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unexcusable_a in_o themselves_o chapter_n v._n 1._o of_o this_o section_n there_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v say_v for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o rave_v for_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o now_o he_o see_v trental_n mass_n diriges_fw-la requiem_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a indulgence_n purgatory_n etc._n etc._n make_v article_n of_o faith_n he_o despayr_v of_o reformation_n to_o which_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o good_a sign_n that_o he_o find_v at_o last_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o church_n so_o build_v upon_o a_o rock_n as_o no_o tempest_n or_o wind_n can_v shake_v it_o but_o rather_o that_o by_o storm_n and_o tempest_n it_o grow_v strong_a the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v strengthen_v against_o all_o haeretique_n by_o the_o great_a authority_n on_o earth_n to_o wit_n a_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a again_o he_o despair_n when_o he_o see_v maldonat_n say_v as_o he_o tell_v we_o practise_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o his_o church_n and_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n he_o that_o be_v maldonate_fw-it interpret_n a_o place_n of_o s._n john_n allow_v s._n augustin_n explication_n as_o most_o probable_a though_o he_o rather_o approve_v another_o of_o his_o own_o because_o it_o more_o cross_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o caluinist_n this_o be_v it_o that_o drive_v he_o in_o to_o despair_v alas_o poor_a sir_n humphrey_n be_v all_o your_o bravery_n come_v to_o this_o what_o your_o hart_n fail_v you_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n such_o a_o cause_n may_v well_o make_v you_o despair_n and_o by_o your_o despair_n you_o show_v your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v false_a for_o true_a doctrine_n lose_v nothing_o by_o be_v impugn_a but_o rather_o gain_v as_o experience_n show_v in_o the_o catholic_a faith_n of_o which_o be_v verify_v the_o say_n of_o the_o prophest_n 11.7_o psal_n 11.7_o eloquia_fw-la domini_fw-la eloquia_fw-la casta_fw-la argentum_fw-la igne_fw-la examinatum_fw-la probatum_fw-la terrae_fw-la purgatum_fw-la septuplum_fw-la word_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v chaste_a word_n silver_n examine_v by_o fire_n try_v of_o the_o earth_n purge_v seven_o fold_n fire_n try_v but_o consume_v not_o gold_n but_o dross_n it_o show_v to_o be_v dross_n by_o consume_v it_o for_o maldonat_n he_o approve_v and_o commend_v s._n augustin_n explication_n but_o add_v another_o of_o his_o own_o not_o contrary_a nor_o disagree_v though_o different_a from_o it_o he_o prefer_v it_o because_o it_o be_v more_o against_o a_o haeretique_n so_o it_o be_v like_o s._n aug._n himself_o will_v also_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a in_o these_o time_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o in_o expound_v of_o scripture_n he_o still_o have_v regard_n to_o the_o confutation_n of_o these_o heresy_n which_o then_o reign_v and_o in_o one_o place_n he_o advise_v io._n tract_n 2._o in_o ep_n 1._o io._n that_o those_o passage_n of_o scripture_n be_v most_o careful_o observe_v and_o remember_v which_o make_v most_o against_o haeretique_n 2._o after_o this_o the_o knight_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o foolish_a stuff_n which_o need_v no_o answer_n be_v but_o a_o bare_a recital_n of_o thing_n as_o for_o example_n our_o wrest_v the_o scripture_n his_o agreement_n of_o doctrine_n with_o the_o father_n nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n in_o this_o place_n and_o then_o he_o cry_v out_o against_o our_o alter_v the_o commandment_n which_o be_v before_o answer_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n prayer_n to_o saint_n and_o in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n which_o shall_v be_v afterward_o answer_v only_o in_o this_o place_n i_o note_v in_o a_o word_n this_o wise_a question_n of_o he_o what_o reason_n say_v he_o can_v be_v allege_v why_o a_o ignorant_a man_n shall_v pray_v without_o understanding_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v with_o a_o contrary_a demand_n to_o wit_n how_o a_o ignorant_a man_n that_o be_v one_o that_o want_v knowledge_n or_o understanding_n shall_v pray_v with_o understanding_n and_o so_o i_o leave_v he_o of_o the_o 6._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 6._o chap._n 6._o the_o common_a pretence_n of_o our_o adversary_n refuse_v reformation_n because_o we_o can_v assign_v the_o praecise_a time_n when_o error_n come_v in_o refute_v chapter_n vi._n 1._o here_o the_o knight_n be_v up_o again_o with_o his_o reformation_n and_o complain_v that_o we_o will_v not_o admit_v thereof_o nor_o acknowledge_v our_o doctrine_n erroneous_a unless_o he_o can_v assign_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o and_o by_o who_o the_o error_n come_v in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v he_o can_v do_v for_o he_o never_o go_v about_o it_o but_o only_o labour_v to_o disprove_v our_o exception_n against_o he_o by_o say_v that_o a_o man_n that_o be_v sick_a of_o a_o consumption_n ought_v not_o to_o refuse_v the_o help_n of_o the_o physician_n upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o can_v not_o tell_v the_o time_n and_o occasion_n when_o his_o body_n begin_v first_o to_o be_v distemper_v and_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n he_o say_v that_o when_o a_o man_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o pit_n and_o call_v to_o a_o passenger_n for_o help_n 19_o ep._n 19_o the_o passenger_n must_v not_o refuse_v to_o help_v he_o out_o upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o see_v not_o how_o he_o shall_v come_v to_o fall_v in_o he_o prove_v it_o also_o as_o he_o think_v out_o of_o scripture_n because_o in_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o cockle_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o enemy_n sow_v it_o when_o man_n be_v a_o sleep_n out_o of_o which_o he_o infer_v that_o they_o can_v not_o see_v or_o know_v he_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o defection_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o secret_a apostasy_n 13._o matth._n 13._o and_o therein_o he_o make_v the_o difference_n between_o haeresy_n and_o apostasy_n that_o haeresy_n be_v preach_v open_o so_o as_o the_o time_n and_o person_n may_v be_v name_v but_o not_o so_o this_o our_o secret_a apostasy_n haeresy_n work_v in_o the_o day_n apostasy_n in_o the_o night_n and_o then_o he_o reckon_v up_o some_o point_n as_o worship_v of_o image_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n and_o some_o other_o which_o he_o say_v be_v not_o so_o mean_v aâ—_n first_o as_o they_o be_v now_o practtize_v and_o believe_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o be_v his_o jolly_a discourse_n frame_v in_o his_o own_o brain_n pan_n and_o sure_o ground_v as_o you_o shall_v find_v upon_o examination_n thereof_o which_o now_o i_o come_v unto_o 2._o he_o compare_v the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n to_o the_o grow_v of_o a_o sickness_n in_o a_o man_n body_n and_o presume_v that_o because_o he_o say_v it_o we_o must_v therefore_o take_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o will_v have_v we_o for_o error_n he_o will_v present_o have_v we_o also_o fall_v to_o correct_v they_o without_o stand_v to_o examine_v far_o no_o more_o than_o a_o physician_n shall_v that_o come_v to_o a_o sick_a man_n but_o his_o comparison_n fail_v exceed_o for_o though_o there_o be_v some_o little_a likeness_n between_o the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n and_o grow_v of_o a_o disease_n in_o a_o man_n body_n because_o both_o begin_v little_a and_o stel_o and_o increase_v by_o degree_n yet_o to_o our_o purpose_n none_o at_o all_o for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o we_o shall_v fall_v to_o cure_v the_o disease_n without_o examine_v the_o cause_n though_o by_o your_o good_a leave_n sir_n knight_n good_a physician_n use_v to_o inquire_v of_o the_o cause_n effect_n and_o other_o circumstance_n of_o the_o sickness_n which_o they_o come_v to_o cure_v but_o whether_o this_o that_o you_o say_v be_v a_o disease_n or_o sickness_n be_v so_o or_o no_o
brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n etc._n etc._n for_o this_o be_v your_o faith_n proper_o as_o you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n or_o church_n show_v your_o doctrine_n in_o all_o these_o point_n that_o be_v your_o denial_n of_o they_o to_o have_v be_v ancient_o and_o universal_o teach_v or_o even_o before_o luther_n time_n and_o you_o have_v say_v something_o which_o you_o not_o do_v i_o can_v but_o wonder_v to_o see_v you_o so_o silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o use_v your_o own_o word_n as_o to_o think_v you_o have_v say_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n we_o ask_v you_o the_o antiquity_n of_o your_o doctrine_n that_o be_v wherein_o you_o disagree_v from_o we_o and_o you_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o so_o much_o as_o agree_v with_o we_o which_o be_v to_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o own_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o shape_n yourselves_o a_o religion_n out_o of_o we_o and_o you_o plead_v the_o antiquity_n of_o we_o but_o that_o will_v not_o serve_v your_o turn_n that_o shape_n which_o you_o give_v it_o be_v the_o form_n and_o essence_n of_o your_o religion_n so_o long_o then_o as_o that_o be_v new_a your_o religion_n be_v new_a neither_o can_v you_o say_v the_o same_o of_o our_o point_n define_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v by_o ask_v where_o our_o church_n wasâ—_n where_o our_o trent_n doctrine_n and_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a creed_n be_v receive_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la before_o luther_n this_o you_o can_v likewise_o say_v to_o we_o for_o the_o define_n make_v not_o the_o doctrine_n new_a but_o bind_v man_n by_o authority_n of_o a_o council_n to_o believe_v what_o they_o do_v believe_v plain_o by_o tradition_n 32._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 32._o as_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v that_o the_o church_n by_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o counsel_n have_v do_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o what_o she_o have_v before_o receive_v by_o tradition_n only_o she_o shall_v also_o by_o writing_n consign_v to_o posterity_n nec_fw-la quicquam_fw-la conciliorum_fw-la suorum_fw-la decretis_fw-la catholica_fw-la perfecit_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la nisi_fw-la ut_fw-la quod_fw-la prius_fw-la a_o majoribus_fw-la sola_fw-la traditione_n susceperat_fw-la hoc_fw-la deinde_fw-la posteris_fw-la etiam_fw-la per_fw-la scripturae_fw-la chirographum_fw-la consignaret_fw-la of_o which_o see_v more_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n here_o 19_o after_o this_o you_o ask_v again_o if_o your_o doctrine_n lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o say_v you_o no_o romanist_n can_v deny_v if_o it_o become_v hide_v as_o good_a corn_n cover_v with_o chaff_n or_o as_o fine_a gold_n overlay_v with_o a_o great_a quantity_n of_o dross_n whether_o it_o must_v be_v therefore_o new_a and_o unknown_a because_o the_o corn_n be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n the_o gold_n from_o the_o dross_n before_o luther_n time_n and_o than_o you_o bid_v we_o because_o we_o call_v your_o doctrine_n novelty_n to_o remove_v the_o three_o creed_n the_o two_o sacrament_n the_o 22._o canonical_a book_n the_o 4._o first_o general_n counsel_n apostolical_a tradition_n and_o see_v whether_o our_o church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o poor_a and_o senseless_a carcase_n this_o be_v your_o learned_a discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v ask_v first_n what_o romanist_n do_v acknowledge_v your_o doctrine_n to_o have_v lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v ever_o any_o man_n write_v so_o do_v ever_o any_o man_n say_v so_o unto_o you_o nay_o what_o romanist_n have_v ever_o forbear_v upon_o occasion_n offer_v to_o deny_v and_o deny_v it_o again_o you_o teach_v not_o only_o those_o be_v two_o but_o that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n which_o what_o romanist_n ever_o acknowledge_v to_o have_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n one_o of_o your_o sacrament_n be_v a_o empty_a piece_n of_o bread_n and_o a_o sup_v of_o wine_n which_o what_o catholic_n will_v ever_o say_v be_v teach_v 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be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a 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be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
apostasy_n and_o future_a damnation_n to_o each_o other_o this_o poor_a friar_n repent_v himself_o and_o thereupon_o come_v back_o to_o his_o monastery_n and_o do_v penance_n rather_o choose_v to_o suffer_v a_o little_a outward_a austerity_n then_o to_o carry_v about_o in_o the_o bottom_n of_o his_o soul_n such_o a_o inward_a assure_a testimony_n and_o belief_n of_o his_o eternal_a damnation_n as_o he_o see_v these_o two_o do_v i_o may_v say_v more_o of_o the_o man_n fine_a feat_n but_o there_o be_v book_n in_o dutch_a particular_o of_o they_o as_o i_o hear_v and_o so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o in_o this_o your_o learned_a buxhorne_n who_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o licentiate_a make_v a_o doctor_n as_o in_o all_o your_o other_o learned_a man_n that_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n hit_v the_o right_a vein_n and_o discover_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o their_o apostasy_n when_o he_o tell_v the_o university_n man_n it_o be_v not_o any_o chark_n or_o hammer_n that_o hold_v they_o back_o as_o i_o may_v say_v also_o it_o be_v not_o any_o raze_n of_o evidence_n that_o make_v boxhorne_n fall_v from_o his_o faith_n but_o that_o there_o be_v certain_a lutheran_n bait_n wherewith_o many_o of_o they_o be_v catch_v which_o be_v aurum_fw-la gloria_fw-la delitiae_fw-la veneres_fw-la gold_n glory_n delight_n and_o venus_n of_o which_o some_o be_v catch_v with_o one_o some_o with_o another_o and_o so_o you_o see_v this_o your_o learned_a professor_n have_v so_o deep_o swallow_v the_o last_o of_o the_o four_o bait_n that_o it_o make_v his_o stomach_n turn_v at_o the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o exhort_v he_o to_o contemn_v some_o of_o they_o as_o gold_n &_o glory_n and_o force_v he_o to_o forbear_v other_o as_o his_o base_a and_o bestial_a delight_n and_o so_o forsake_v all_o obedience_n to_o humane_a and_o divine_a law_n at_o one_o clapp_n become_v a_o rebel_n to_o his_o prince_n a_o apostata_fw-la to_o religion_n and_o enemy_n to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n therefore_o of_o such_o fellow_n there_o be_v no_o other_o account_n to_o be_v make_v but_o let_v they_o go_v as_o the_o scripture_n say_v of_o one_o of_o their_o chief_a leader_n 2.25_o act._n 2.25_o ut_fw-la abiret_fw-la in_o locum_fw-la suum_fw-la that_o he_o may_v go_v into_o his_o own_o place_n of_o the_o 14._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 14._o chap._n 14._o our_o adversary_n convict_v of_o their_o defence_n of_o a_o desperate_a cause_n by_o their_o blasphemous_a exception_n against_o the_o scripture_n itself_o chapter_n fourteen_o 1._o to_o this_o section_n the_o knight_n give_v a_o beginning_n by_o occasion_n of_o boxhorne_n word_n in_o the_o last_o section_n of_o a_o idol_n in_o the_o temple_n whereupon_o he_o very_o witty_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o we_o see_v the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n stand_v in_o the_o holy_a place_n we_o must_v fly_v to_o the_o mountain_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o s._n chrysostome_n say_v but_o yet_o he_o think_v we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o trial_n of_o scripture_n because_o say_v he_o be_v we_o not_o all_o eye_n witness_n that_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v call_v in_o question_n at_o the_o pope_n assize_n and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v of_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n in_o their_o gospel_n be_v not_o the_o sacred_a bible_n say_v he_o rank_v inter_fw-la libros_fw-la prohibitos_fw-la in_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o forbid_a book_n &_o then_o he_o bring_v corn._n agrippa_n complain_v of_o the_o inquisitor_n that_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v man_n to_o prove_v their_o opinion_n by_o scripture_n this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n which_o upon_o examination_n will_v prove_v as_o foolish_a as_o he_o think_v it_o witty_a i_o answer_v therefore_o that_o though_o catholic_n hold_v for_o most_o certain_a that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n nor_o that_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o all_o controversy_n can_v be_v decide_v as_o for_o example_n that_o in_o particular_a which_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o not_o yet_o for_o most_o thing_n now_o a_o day_n in_o controversy_n many_o catholic_n have_v offer_v to_o try_v the_o matter_n by_o only_a scripture_n some_o have_v also_o write_v book_n of_o good_a volume_n faith_n anchor_n of_o faith_n to_o show_v the_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o obvious_a sense_n to_o make_v positive_o for_o we_o &_o our_o doctrine_n in_o most_o point_n &_o against_o we_o in_o none_o whereof_o a_o man_n may_v also_o have_v a_o brief_a taste_n in_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o censure_n in_o the_o praeface_n in_o these_o point_n follow_v of_o supremacy_n real_a presence_n justification_n absolution_n vow_n tradition_n observance_n of_o the_o commandment_n satisfaction_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a prayer_n to_o saint_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o respect_n therefore_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o come_v to_o be_v so_o sure_a that_o we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o the_o trial_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o we_o ground_n many_o point_n upon_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o do_v not_o we_o ground_n other_o upon_o plain_a and_o express_v authority_n of_o scripture_n from_o which_o you_o be_v fain_o to_o fly_v run_v into_o this_o or_o that_o corner_n of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o figurative_a or_o tropical_a interpretation_n or_o even_o deny_v the_o very_a book_n of_o scripture_n nay_o what_o point_n be_v there_o that_o we_o do_v not_o bring_v better_a proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n for_o it_o which_o yet_o we_o need_v not_o than_o you_o can_v bring_v against_o it_o which_o yet_o be_v absolute_o needful_a on_o your_o part_n you_o stand_v so_o upon_o scripture_n as_o you_o do_v 2._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n at_o his_o assize_n for_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n this_o be_v a_o speech_n utter_v i_o suppose_v by_o you_o only_o in_o the_o fervour_n of_o a_o haereticall_a spirit_n wherein_o therefore_o a_o man_n be_v not_o to_o look_v for_o much_o truth_n but_o yet_o i_o may_v ask_v wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o do_v the_o pope_n question_n or_o condemn_v christ_n of_o obscurity_n &_o insufficiency_n what_o have_v christ_n leave_v write_v to_o be_v question_v or_o condemn_v his_o apostle_n &_o evangelist_n indeed_o have_v leave_v some_o thing_n in_o writing_n of_o which_o some_o be_v hard_a even_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o scripture_n itself_o 3.16_o 2._o pet._n 3.16_o for_o so_o say_v s._n peter_n of_o the_o epistle_n of_o s._n paul_n which_o say_v he_o the_o unlearned_a and_o inconstant_a do_v abuse_v as_o they_o do_v other_o scripture_n to_o their_o own_o perdition_n 14._o aug._n conf._n lib._n 12._o c._n 14._o and_o s._n augustine_n find_v so_o much_o difficulty_n in_o the_o first_o verse_n of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n which_o to_o a_o man_n seem_v be_v as_o easy_a as_o any_o other_o verse_n what_o soever_o that_o he_o be_v fain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o wonderful_a profoundness_n thereof_o it_o be_v s._n peter_n and_o s._n aug._n therefore_o that_o call_v to_o their_o assize_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o so_o and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v s._n paul_n &_o moses_n of_o obscurity_n not_o the_o pope_n &_o so_o for_o insufficiency_n if_o any_o body_n condemn_v it_o it_o be_v s._n john_n in_o say_v that_o 2.14_o 2._o thess_n 2.14_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v &_o s._n paul_n in_o willing_a the_o thessalonians_n to_o hold_v the_o tradition_n which_o they_o have_v learn_v whither_o by_o speech_n or_o letter_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n or_o writing_n they_o be_v the_o apostle_n &_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n that_o acknowledge_v that_o hardness_n of_o scripture_n or_o what_o soever_o it_o be_v which_o your_o worship_n be_v please_v to_o call_v insufficiency_n what_o impertinent_a flaunt_n be_v this_o then_o in_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o tell_v we_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o talk_v thus_o of_o assize_n and_o arraign_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v we_o know_v you_o be_v the_o son_n of_o a_o grand-iuror_n who_o it_o be_v pity_n you_o do_v not_o succeed_v in_o the_o place_n since_o you_o have_v the_o term_n so_o ready_a in_o your_o mouth_n 3._o but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_n i_o likewise_o answer_v you_o for_o our_o rank_v the_o bible_n in_o the_o first_o place_n of_o prohibit_v book_n as_o you_o say_v we_o do_v that_o it_o be_v false_a and_o false_a again_o for_o it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o such_o book_n only_o in_o the_o rule_n which_o concern_v the_o index_n there_o be_v mention_v how_o the_o free_a use_n of_o vulgar_a translation_n be_v not_o to_o be_v permit_v 4._o reg._n 4._o but_o for_o the_o latin_a vulgar_a translation_n there_o be_v no_o manner_n
that_o 2._o ap._n suar._n 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 49._o sect._n 2._o non_fw-la est_fw-la attendendum_fw-la ad_fw-la naturam_fw-la eorum_fw-la quae_fw-la videntur_fw-la sed_fw-la credendum_fw-la mutationi_fw-la quae_fw-la hîc_fw-la fit_a ex_fw-la gratia_fw-la we_o must_v not_o consider_v the_o nature_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v see_v but_o believe_v the_o change_n which_o be_v here_o make_v by_o grace_n as_o also_o that_o other_o place_n where_o he_o note_v it_o for_o a_o haeresy_n spring_v up_o among_o the_o grecian_n of_o some_o that_o do_v deny_v the_o eucharist_n to_o be_v the_o flesh_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n eucharistiam_fw-la &_o oblationes_fw-la non_fw-la admittunt_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la confiteantur_fw-la eucharistiam_fw-la esse_fw-la carnem_fw-la saluatoris_fw-la nostri_fw-la jesv_n christi_fw-la but_o not_o to_o stand_v long_o upon_o it_o 1._o dialog_n 3._o ut_fw-la habeatur_fw-la ap_fw-mi suar._n 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 46._o sect_n 1._o here_o be_v enough_o i_o trow_v to_o make_v it_o evident_a that_o theodoret_n in_o this_o point_n agree_v with_o other_o father_n and_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n 30._o and_o so_o much_o for_o these_o two_o father_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n which_o be_v the_o only_a ancient_a author_n it_o seem_v you_o can_v find_v of_o yourself_o but_o because_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v there_o be_v more_o for_o you_o and_o that_o our_o author_n acknowledge_v so_o much_o i_o must_v examine_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o cusanus_fw-la for_o that_o purpose_n for_o he_o be_v the_o only_a author_n which_o you_o here_o bring_v thus_o than_o you_o say_v their_o learned_a cusanus_fw-la be_v not_o so_o reserve_v in_o his_o opinion_n of_o the_o father_n he_o speakeht_v plain_o and_o open_o that_o certain_a of_o the_o ancient_a divine_n be_v find_v of_o this_o mind_n that_o the_o bread_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o transubstantiate_v or_o change_v in_o nature_n but_o remain_v still_o and_o be_v clothe_v with_o another_o substance_n more_o noble_a than_o itself_o so_o cusanus_fw-la as_o you_o cite_v he_o whereby_o you_o will_v make_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o cusanus_fw-la teach_v the_o father_n to_o be_v against_o transubstantiation_n and_o even_o as_o if_o it_o be_v cusanus_fw-la his_o own_a opinion_n for_o though_o you_o do_v not_o say_v it_o express_o yet_o you_o allege_v he_o in_o such_o manner_n that_o any_o man_n will_v think_v it_o but_o in_o this_o you_o play_v your_o part_n as_o you_o be_v wont_a to_o do_v for_o first_o where_o do_v cusanus_fw-la speak_v one_o word_n of_o the_o father_n he_o speak_v indeed_o of_o some_o ancient_a divine_n but_o of_o father_n not_o a_o word_n this_o then_o be_v false_a which_o you_o say_v that_o cusanus_fw-la be_v not_o so_o reserve_v in_o his_o opinion_n of_o the_o father_n see_v he_o be_v so_o reserve_v as_o not_o once_o to_o name_v they_o second_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o certain_a ancient_a divine_n it_o be_v true_a cusanus_fw-la have_v somewhat_o to_o that_o purpose_n but_o not_o just_a as_o you_o say_v for_o these_o be_v his_o word_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la intelligeret_fw-la panem_fw-la non_fw-la transubstantiari_fw-la sed_fw-la superuestiri_fw-la nobiliori_fw-la substantia_fw-la prout_fw-la quidam_fw-la veteres_fw-la theologi_fw-la intellexisse_fw-la reperiuntur_fw-la qui_fw-la dicebant_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la panem_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la esse_fw-la in_o sacramento_n etc._n etc._n if_o any_o man_n shall_v understand_v the_o bread_n not_o to_o be_v transubstantiate_v but_o to_o be_v overclothe_v with_o a_o more_o noble_a substance_n as_o some_o ancient_a divine_n be_v find_v to_o have_v understand_v who_o say_v that_o not_o only_a bread_n but_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o last_o word_n of_o christ_n real_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n you_o leave_v out_o because_o they_o make_v as_o much_o or_o more_o against_o yourself_o than_o the_o former_a of_o the_o remain_v of_o bread_n against_o us._n but_o for_o the_o ancient_a divine_n you_o need_v not_o have_v go_v so_o far_o as_o cusanus_fw-la you_o may_v have_v their_o name_n and_o error_n in_o our_o late_a schoolman_n 4._o suar._n disp_n 49._o sect_n 2_o 3_o 4._o three_o concern_v cusanus_fw-la his_fw-la own_o opinion_n there_o can_v be_v nothing_o more_o manifest_a than_o his_o true_a &_o constant_a belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n 446._o excit_fw-la lib._n 6._o edit_n basâ—â—_n 1565._o pag._n 522._o lib._n 4._o p._n 446._o in_o this_o very_a place_n he_o say_v ita_fw-la manent_fw-la accidentia_fw-la ut_fw-la prius_fw-la sed_fw-la substantia_fw-la conversa_fw-la est_fw-la the_o accident_n remain_v as_o before_o but_o the_o substance_n be_v change_v and_o in_o another_o place_n huius_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la institutio_fw-la ita_fw-la facta_fw-la est_fw-la per_fw-la christum_fw-la quod_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o vinum_fw-la in_o sanguinem_fw-la convertitur_fw-la pro_fw-la esca_fw-la spirituali_fw-la sub_fw-la speciebus_fw-la sensibilibus_fw-la the_o institution_n of_o this_o sacrament_n be_v so_o make_v by_o christ_n that_o the_o bread_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o wine_n into_o his_o blood_n for_o spiritual_a food_n under_o the_o sensible_a species_n or_o accident_n and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o with_o a_o large_a &_o excellent_a discourse_n express_v all_o thing_n now_o in_o controversy_n as_o transubstantiation_n i_o mean_v the_o very_a word_n concomitancy_n the_o efficacy_n of_o the_o very_a word_n christ_n manner_n of_o presence_n whole_a in_o the_o whole_a host_n &_o whole_a in_o every_o part_n thereof_o illustrate_v and_o prove_v all_o by_o reason_n and_o example_n of_o natural_a thing_n and_o this_o not_o brief_o or_o in_o one_o place_n only_o but_o so_o large_o &_o in_o so_o many_o place_n as_o a_o man_n by_o only_o open_v the_o book_n without_o a_o index_n may_v present_o find_v enough_o to_o show_v his_o catholic_a belief_n &_o confute_v your_o error_n what_o strange_a malice_n and_o boldness_n than_o be_v this_o sir_n humphrey_n so_o to_o lead_v your_o reader_n into_o tentation_n by_o make_v he_o believe_v cusanus_fw-la be_v for_o you_o i_o omit_v to_o note_v your_o ignorance_n in_o cite_v cusanus_fw-la his_o book_n exercit_fw-la that_o be_v either_o exercitiorum_fw-la or_o exercitationum_fw-la whereas_o he_o have_v no_o such_o work_n but_o excitationum_fw-la which_o by_o your_o great_a ignorance_n every_o where_o show_v i_o have_v good_a reason_n to_o think_v not_o to_o be_v the_o printer_n fault_n but_o you_o but_o here_o be_v a_o end_n with_o cusanus_fw-la in_o who_o you_o have_v no_o refuge_n more_o than_o you_o have_v in_o the_o father_n 31._o now_o then_o have_v do_v with_o scripture_n and_o father_n you_o come_v to_o the_o schoolman_n tell_v we_o that_o scotus_n teach_v that_o before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n transubstantiation_n be_v not_o believe_v as_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n which_o bellarmine_n disallow_v in_o he_o &_o suarez_n say_v that_o the_o schoolman_n which_o teach_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o very_o ancient_a be_v to_o be_v correct_v such_o as_o scotus_n be_v of_o durand_n you_o say_v that_o in_o like_a manner_n he_o &_o some_o of_o his_o fellow_n schoolman_n after_o he_o profess_v open_o that_o the_o material_a part_n or_o substance_n of_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n be_v not_o convert_v but_o that_o bellarmine_n condemn_v this_o doctrine_n for_o heretical_a yet_o excuse_v durand_n from_o be_v a_o haeretique_n because_o he_o be_v ready_a to_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n then_o let_v pass_v wickliff_n and_o the_o waldense_n you_o say_v our_o own_o proctor_n osiensis_n and_o gaufridus_n tell_v you_o that_o there_o be_v other_o in_o those_o day_n who_o teach_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n do_v remain_v and_o this_o opinion_n say_v they_o as_o you_o cite_v they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v reject_v last_o to_o come_v to_o this_o last_o age_n you_o say_v tonstall_n think_v it_o have_v be_v better_a to_o leave_v every_o man_n to_o his_o own_o conjecture_n for_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n whether_o it_o be_v by_o transubstantiation_n or_o otherwise_o as_o it_o be_v before_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n and_o erasmus_n say_v it_o be_v define_v but_o of_o late_a by_o the_o church_n these_o be_v all_o your_o author_n and_o your_o whole_a discourse_n out_o of_o schoolman_n 32._o to_o which_o i_o say_v first_o for_o scotus_n that_o i_o have_v sufficient_o answer_v that_o of_o he_o before_o in_o answer_v the_o testimony_n of_o yribarre_v his_o scholar_n 24._o sup._n hoc_fw-la §._o n._n 24._o where_o i_o show_v that_o he_o mean_v not_o so_o much_o of_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o doctrine_n for_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n as_o either_o of_o the_o
word_n transubstantiation_n or_o of_o the_o proof_n thereof_o by_o determine_v the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n and_o this_o it_o may_v be_v be_v it_o wherein_o tonstall_n also_o follow_v he_o if_o they_o mean_v otherwise_o the_o matter_n be_v not_o great_a for_o one_o single_a author_n or_o two_o contradict_v by_o other_o carry_v no_o credit_n with_o we_o in_o matter_n of_o belief_n though_o to_o say_v true_o tonstall_n be_v no_o schooleman_n but_o a_o canonist_n as_o cardinal_n pole_n answer_v he_o very_o well_o by_o letter_n upon_o another_o certain_a occasion_n wherein_o he_o do_v swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o true_a divinity_n as_o i_o have_v see_v by_o the_o letter_n of_o both_o in_o both_o their_o own_o hand_n erasmus_n be_v no_o author_n to_o be_v answer_v nor_o name_v as_o you_o know_v i_o have_v often_o tell_v you_o 33._o for_o the_o waldense_n and_o wickliff_n you_o do_v well_o to_o let_v they_o pass_v but_o the_o very_a name_n of_o they_o show_v you_o have_v a_o good_a mind_n to_o fill_v out_o your_o number_n of_o schoolman_n with_o they_o though_o for_o the_o waldense_n i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o they_o agree_v with_o you_o much_o in_o this_o point_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n for_o they_o have_v mass_n but_o once_o a_o year_n &_o that_o upon_o maundy_n thursday_n neither_o will_v they_o use_v the_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o 7._o pater_fw-la noster_n with_o a_o blessing_n over_o the_o bread_n whereas_o you_o may_v have_v your_o communion_n often_o and_o you_o use_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o 7._o pater_n as_o they_o do_v but_o what_o need_v i_o say_v more_o of_o they_o or_o the_o wickliffist_n either_o be_v know_v condemn_v haeretique_n 34._o now_o for_o durand_n he_o be_v a_o schoolman_n indeed_o and_o a_o learned_a one_o but_o yet_o not_o whole_o free_a from_o error_n in_o some_o point_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o of_o the_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n for_o he_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o change_n in_o this_o sacrament_n be_v no_o other_o than_o as_o the_o natural_a change_n of_o other_o substance_n one_o into_o another_o 3._o durand_n 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 3._o and_o that_o it_o be_v supernatural_a only_o for_o the_o manner_n because_o it_o be_v do_v in_o a_o instant_n and_o without_o the_o concurrence_n of_o natural_a cause_n and_o that_o as_o in_o these_o natural_a change_n of_o the_o element_n one_o into_o another_o or_o other_o mix_v body_n the_o form_n only_o be_v change_v the_o material_a part_n or_o subject_n as_o philosopher_n speak_v remain_v still_o the_o same_o so_o also_o that_o here_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n be_v change_v only_o the_o matter_n or_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n remain_v which_o yet_o he_o think_v to_o be_v sufficient_a to_o verify_v not_o only_o the_o realnes_n of_o christ_n presence_n but_o also_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o to_o that_o purpose_n he_o have_v these_o two_o express_a conclusion_n 1._o 4._o do_v 10._o q._n 1._o dicendum_fw-la say_v he_o quod_fw-la verum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la natum_fw-la de_fw-fr virgin_n &_o passum_fw-la in_o cruse_n est_fw-la realiter_fw-la in_o hoc_fw-la sacramento_n i_o say_v that_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o virgin_n and_o suffer_v on_o the_o cross_n be_v real_o in_o this_o sacrament_n the_o other_o conclusion_n be_v this_o dicendum_fw-la quod_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vini_fw-la convertuntur_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la 1._o dur._n 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 1._o it_o be_v to_o be_v say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n whereby_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o hold_v a_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n by_o a_o true_a and_o real_a conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n or_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n discover_v also_o therein_o your_o cunning_a and_o delude_a corruption_n whereby_o you_o will_v make_v it_o seem_v to_o your_o reader_n that_o these_o two_o be_v all_o one_o the_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o substance_n of_o bread_n for_o so_o in_o the_o citation_n of_o durand_n sentence_n you_o gloss_n the_o word_n material_a part_n with_o this_o parenthesis_n of_o your_o own_o or_o substance_n whereas_o the_o material_a part_n of_o bread_n and_o substance_n of_o bread_n be_v two_o thing_n for_o the_o matter_n in_o every_o compound_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o substance_n and_o the_o absolute_a denomination_n of_o such_o a_o specifical_a substance_n do_v not_o belong_v even_o to_o the_o form_n itself_o alone_o though_o it_o be_v the_o more_o noble_a and_o more_o essential_a part_n much_o less_o to_o the_o matter_n or_o material_a part_n for_o we_o do_v not_o say_v the_o form_n of_o fire_n or_o water_n be_v fire_n or_o water_n but_o it_o be_v that_o which_o give_v the_o be_v of_o fire_n or_o water_n to_o the_o material_a part_n or_o matter_n which_o of_o itself_o be_v so_o far_o from_o have_v any_o such_o denomination_n as_o some_o philosopher_n do_v scarce_o give_v it_o any_o proper_a be_v of_o it_o own_o or_o even_o the_o common_a name_n of_o ens_fw-la and_o all_o agree_v that_o it_o have_v no_o quality_n no_o active_a power_n nor_o force_n of_o itself_o to_o do_v any_o thing_n as_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a passive_a power_n 35._o wherefore_o though_o the_o matter_n of_o bread_n shall_v remain_v in_o this_o conversion_n or_o change_n yet_o can_v not_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n be_v say_v to_o remain_v so_o long_o as_o the_o form_n be_v change_v no_o more_o than_o all_o the_o bread_n and_o meat_n which_o you_o eat_v may_v be_v say_v to_o remain_v because_o the_o material_a part_n of_o all_o the_o bread_n beef_n mutton_n capon_n pheazant_n and_o whatsoever_o else_o you_o eat_v remain_v unconuert_v which_o as_o it_o be_v a_o great_a absurdity_n in_o any_o man_n to_o affirm_v so_o be_v it_o as_o great_a a_o one_o in_o you_o to_o affirm_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n in_o this_o sacrament_n shall_v not_o be_v convert_v though_o the_o material_a part_n shall_v remain_v for_o as_o the_o only_a change_n of_o the_o form_n in_o all_o natural_a conversion_n be_v sufficient_a to_o verify_v that_o this_o thing_n be_v change_v into_o that_o for_o example_n fire_n into_o water_n so_o may_v it_o be_v in_o this_o for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o manner_n of_o speak_v which_o i_o only_o urge_v in_o durand_n defence_n not_o that_o i_o allow_v his_o doctrine_n for_o this_o be_v his_o very_a reason_n why_o he_o do_v hold_v that_o opinion_n because_o he_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o verify_v not_o only_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o even_a transubstantiation_n also_o which_o very_o word_n he_o use_v in_o another_o place_n for_o make_v answer_n to_o a_o certain_a objection_n draw_v out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o s._n john_n damascen_n wherein_o that_o father_n say_v that_o the_o nature_n of_o bread_n be_v assume_v by_o christ_n as_o if_o by_o that_o manner_n of_o speak_v he_o shall_v seem_v to_o insinuate_v that_o the_o bread_n remain_v the_o same_o in_o nature_n be_v hypostatical_o unite_v to_o christ_n durand_n say_v thus_o 1._o durand_n in_o 4._o do_v 10â—_o q._n 1._o sicut_fw-la in_o baptismate_fw-la aqua_fw-la assumitur_fw-la ut_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la permanens_fw-la sic_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o vinum_fw-la assumuntur_fw-la ut_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la tranfiens_fw-la quia_fw-la materia_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o per_fw-la consequens_fw-la dicitur_fw-la aliquo_fw-la modo_fw-la uniri_fw-la divinitati_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la assumptionem_fw-la manente_fw-la natura_fw-la panis_fw-la aut_fw-la vini_fw-la sed_fw-la per_fw-la transubstantiationem_fw-la in_o humanitatem_fw-la priùs_fw-la assumptam_fw-la as_o in_o baptism_n water_n be_v assume_v as_o the_o permanent_a matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n so_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v assume_v as_o the_o transient_a or_o pass_a matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n because_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o consequence_n be_v say_v in_o some_o sort_n to_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o divinity_n not_o by_o assumption_n or_o hypostatical_a union_n the_o nature_n of_o the_o bread_n or_o wine_n remain_v but_o by_o transubstantiation_n into_o the_o humanity_n before_o assumpt_v which_o word_n declare_v his_o opinion_n both_o full_o and_o plain_o of_o the_o change_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o this_o sacrament_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n by_o transubstantiation_n 36._o but_o howsoever_o he_o fail_v in_o declare_v this_o transubstantiation_n in_o that_o he_o take_v not_o the_o whole_a substance_n of_o the_o bread_n to_o