world could speake more fully for vs Catholicks in this behalf then doth the Protestāt (2) In his cōsideration of the Papists reasons pag. 105. M. Powel in these wordes I grāt that from the yeare of Christ 605. the Professant companie of Poperie hath been verie visible and perspicuous Or (3) In his discourse vpō the Catalo of Doc. ī the epi. to the Reader Simon de Voyon affirming that Anno 605. when Pope Boniface was stalled in the Papal Throne thē falsehood got the victorie c. Thē was the whole world ouerwhelmed with the dregs of Antichristian filthines abominable superstistions and Traditions of the Pope then was that vniuersal Apostacie from the Faith foretold by Paul And (4) In his exposition of the Creed v. 1. pag. 266. M. Parkins hauing spoken of the second signe of Christs comming which there he maketh to be the reuealing of Antichrist in Boniface Anno 607. alleageth thē next after as a third signe and as being distinct frō the other a general departing of most men from the Faith saying respectiuely thereof during the space of nine hundred yeares c. the Popish Heresie so do Hereticks stile it hath spred it self ouer the earth and so vniuersally in his opinion through-out al parts of Faith that sayth he next afterwards and the faithful seruants of God were but as a handful of wheat in a mountaine of chaffe (8) In his Reioynder to Bristow p. 34 which can scarce be discerned And againe (5) Ib. p. 310. we say for the space of manie hundred yeares an vniuersal Apostacie ouerspred the whole face of the earth and that our Protestant Church was not then visible to the world but lay hid vnder the chaffe of Poperie and the truth of this the Records of al Ages manifest M. Morton (6) Protest Apeale p. 71. would euade these testimonies of M. Parkins by answering that he speaketh this only of the Article of the Popes Primacie and not in regard of so large continuance and general belief of the other points of our now Catholick Faith which yet is most vntrue Parkins speaking in general of a general departing from the Faith and of an vniuersal Apostacie In so much as the Protestant church or Religion was not according to Parkins then visible to the world In which sense also (7) In his Ansvver to a counterf Cath◠p. 36. D. Fulk confesseth that The very Religiō of the Papists came in and preuailed Anno Dom. 607. c. And so vniuersally that saith he The reuelatiō of Antichrist with the Churches flight into the wildernes was Anno 607. So clear and cōfessed it is that our now Roman Religion hath cōtinued vniuersally for these last thousand yeares A truth so euidēt also that most Protestāts do from thence inferre and auouch that al the Popes of Rome for these last 1000. yeares haue been Antichrists (9) De Antichrist in praef p. 1. 2. M. Powel affirmeth that the Pope hath been Antichrist at al times since Gregorie the Great According to (10) Cont. Bellar. par 1. pag. 371. Danaeus The Kingdome of that Antichrist hath now manifestly cōtinued more then nine hundred yeares from the Emperour Phocas to the time af Luther D. whitaker (11) De Eccles cōt Bellar p. 144. affirmeth Boniface the Third who liued Anno 607 and al his successours to haue been Antichrists (12) In his Answ to a counterf catho pa. 27. and in his confut of Purgatory pa. 344 and ParKins v. 1. pag. 266. D. Fulk auoucheth that the Popes from Boniface the Third were blaspemous Hereticks and Antichrists (13) In his treatise of Antic p. 4. D. Downeham auerreth that The whole row or rable of Popes frō Boniface the Third downeward were Antichrists (14) In his Tryal of the Romish cler pa. 330. M. wotton tearmeth Boniface the Third the first reuealed Antichrist And (15) Hist sacr par p. 189. Hospinian censureth him and al his successours to be verissimos Antichristos most true Antichrists D. whitaker (16) De eccl cōt 8. l. cōtro 2. q. 4. p. 144. deliuering his owne and other Protestants opinion herein sayth we affirme Gregorie the Great to haue been the last true and holie Bishop of that Church c. For those that followed were true Antichrists c. And because they aske and demand of vs some certain time we assigne them this to wit of Antichrist's first comming So manifest it is that al the Roman Bishops after these last thousand yeares being thus censured by so many Protestants for Antichrists haue no lesse professed and maintayned the present Roman Religion then Gregorie the Fifteenth who now gouerneth that Sea and is charged by Protestants to be Antichrist himself And as al the Popes for these last thousand yeares are thus censured for Antichrists so is the article of the Popes Primacie or supreme authoritie ouer the whole Church in al matters Ecclesiastical plainly acknowledged by D. Morton himself to be no lesse ancient For wheras M. Brierlie produceth the testimonies of Parkins Napper and Broccard for the continuance of our Roman Religion in general for these last thousand yeares D. Morton restraineth their meaning though vndeseruedly only to the point of the Popes Primacie saying (17) Prot. Appeal p. 71 The alleaged Authours speak of the Primacie of the Pope And againe 18 Ibid p. 72 Be it granted for so it is that the Papal Primacie beginning in Boniface the Third is now nine hundred yeares old So ancient and vniuersal is this so transcendent Article of the Popes Primacie in matters Spiritual A point of such importāce that D. Reynolds affirmeth therein (19) confe p. 568. the very being and essence of a Papist to consist And D. Whitaker auoucheth that (20) contra Duroe pag. 503. It is the head of Popish Religion of which almost al the rest depend But what more forcibly can be produced for the further confirming of our Churches foresayd cōtinuāce for these last 1000. yeares then the publick exercise of our Churches Liturgie the holy Sacrifice of the Masse during the foresayd time Seing not only according to D. Sutclif (21) Answear to Exceptions pa. 11. In the Masse the verie Soule of Poperie doth consist as also according to D. Whitaker (22) contra Duroe pag. 426. Nothing is more holie and diuine in our conceipt But withal the Masse including sundrie articles of our Catholick Faith as true external Sacrifice the Real presence of Christs Bodie and Bloud in the Eucharist Priesthood Prayer to Angels and Saints Prayer and Sacrifice for the dead and sundrie such like thereby doth plainely conuince the vniuersal continuāce of our Catholick Religion D. Luther (23) In colloquiis Ger. de Missae affirmeth that Priuat Masse hath deceiued many Saints and carried them away into errour frō the time of Gregorie for 800. yeares With him agreeth M. Tindal (24) Act. Mon. p. 1338 in
that the Church must be visible (15) Compend loc 24. p. 201. Gesnerus auoucheth that The external and visible Companie of those who are called Baptized and professe the name of Christ whereof Christ speaketh Math. 1.14 was neuer hid And a litle before he affirmeth that It can not be hid and be obscure (16) Serm. 4. fol. 90. M. Web likewise in his Sermons vpon the 2. Psalme inferreth the like from Math. 1.4 Crāmerus (17) Scholae Propheticae p. 381. teacheth that The State of the Church is painted out by similitude of a Mountaine whereby the Church is signified which neuer was nor can be hid but as a high Mountaine easily yeeldeth itself to be seen of al as Christ Math. 5.14 saith of a Cittie which placed vpon a Mountaine can not be hid These and sundrie other Protestants do not only defend the Churches Euer-visibilitie but they defend the same euen from the Scriptures themselues condemning the contrarie opinion of the Churches Inuisibilitie as contrarie to Scriptures and al ancient and moderne Writers From this so certaine and confessed a truth of the Churches Euer-visibilitie sundrie Protestants of special note do further inferre and teach the absolute necessitie of the Churches Euer-visibilitie to the remission of Sinnes and the Saluation of man plainly condemning to eternal damnation al such as liue and dye out of the visible Church of Christ To this end (18) Instit l. 4. c. 1. Sac. 4. Caluin writeth Because I intend to dispute of the visible Church let vs learne though with this one testimonie of our Mothers prayse how profitable yea how necessarie is the knowledge of her vnto vs seing there is no other entrance into life except she conceiue vs in her wombe except she bring vs forth except c. to conclude she defend vs vnder her custodie and gouernment vntil we dying c. Adde hereunto that out of her bosome no remission of sinnes is to be hoped for M. Parkins (19) Vol. 1. p. 308. teacheth that The Arke out of which al perished figured the Church out of which al are condemned c. out of the Militant Church there are no meanes of Saluation no preaching of the Word no Inuocation of Gods name no Sacraments and therefore no Saluation For this cause euerie man must be admonished euermore to ioyne himself to some particular Church c. D. Humfrey (20) Iesuit part 2. p. 242. cōfesseth that Secret aboades are not the Christian Conuocation c. because this Cōmunion of Saints is an open testification of Christianitie which open testification is necessarie to Saluation (21) De Ecclesia Milit. p. 36. 38. Molitox testifyeth that The inuisible Church of the Elect is latent in the visible Church and out of it can not be found as it is truly sayd out of the Church to wit the visible Church there is no Saluation c. Keckermanus (22) System Theolog. p. 408. vrgeth that The Church of the new Testament by reason of her Markes and external forme must alwayes be sensible and visible that so other Nations who are yet out of the Church may know to what Church they ought to adhere c. (23) Meth. Theolog. p. 552. Hiperius thus iustly demandeth Verily except these Signes were and that the true Church could be apprehended by Senses how could a man know to what Companie he should adhere for the obtayning of Saluation (24) Of the Church l. 1. c. 1. p. 3. Philip Mornay auoucheth that Into the visible Church al must retire themselues in this world that wil be gathered in the inuisible Church in the world to come Al this supposeth the necessarie visibilitie of the Church in al Ages seing in al Ages God hath prouided sufficient meanes for man's Saluation Yea it further conuinceth that supposing the Church could be inuisible at anie time that as then al the Professours and members therof dying should incurre damnation seing according to the truth and the iudgement of so manie Protestants out of the visible Church there is no Saluation To apply then this so certaine and necessarie Doctrine to the Roman and Protestant Church I haue formerly proued the Inuisibilitie of the Protestant Church in al Ages before Luther As namely euen at Luthers first appearing (25) See before l. 3. c. 1. by the testimonies of Luther himself of Morgēsterne Rhegius Miluius Bucer Caluin Camierus Dent Brightman Whitaker and Iewel as also in al Ages for these last 1000. yeares by the (26) See aboue l. 3. c. 1 confessions of D. Fulk Parkins Bale Bramlerus Simon de Voyon Powel and others And that it was no lesse inuisible during the time of the Primitiue Church (27) See before l. 3. c. 1. it is formerly acknowledged by M. Brightman Nappeir Carthwright Beza Fulk Cario Francus others Now to the contrarie the cleerest visibilitie of our Roman Church during al Ages since Christ is most plentifully testifyed and first for these last 1000. yeares (28) See before l. 1. c. 2. by Powel Symon de Voyon Parkins Fulk Danaus Whitaker Dowaham Wotton Hospinian and manie others And for the first 600. yeares (29) See before l. 1. c. 5. by Broccard Brightman Leigh Napper Winckelmanus Danaus Fulk Raynolds Caluin Zanchius Whitaker Ridley Iewel Bunnie Morton Parker Francus Field and seueral others So that my Conclusion may truly be that seing according to plaine Scriptures and the answerable acknowledgemēts of Protestant Writers the Church of Christ must euer continue visible in al Ages and times which the Roman Church hath euer the Protestant neuer performed that therefore not the Protestant but the Catholick Roman Church is the only true Church of Christ described in the Scriptures The third Proof from sacred Scriptures in Confirmation of the Roman Church and Confutation of the Protestant is taken from the Churches Pastours which must euer continue with lawful Calling Succession and with Administration of Word and Sacraments CHAPTER IIII. THE sacred Scriptures do plentifully further shew the necessarie Being Continuance Calling and Succession of Ecclesiastical Pastours In which respect God himself thus promiseth to his Church (1) Esay 59 2◠My Spirit which is vpon thee and the words which I haue put in thy mouth shal not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed from henceforth for euer As also (2) Ps 45.16 In steed of fathers children shal be borne to thee thou shalt make them Princes through al the earth (3) Esa 62.6 And vpon thy walles Ierusalem I haue appoynted watchmen al the day and al the night for euer they shal not hold their peace S. Paule (4) Ephes 4.11.12 assureth vs that our Sauiour hath placed Pastours to continue in his Church to the Consummation of Saincts til we al meet in vnitie of Faith that is for euer according to the exposition hereof by D.
no period or difference of time wherin the Church of Christ hath more gloriously shined either for puritie of Faith or Sanctitie of life then during the time of her primitiue being which according to the accompt (1) Ievvel in his Sermon at Paules Crosse And in his Reply p. 1. Humfrey in vita Iuelli p. 123. 124. VvitaKer Resp ad Ranones Campiani p. 90. of the learnedst ProtestaÌ„ts extended itself to the ful tearme of the first six hundred years after Christ our Sauiour his glorious Ascension In greatest confidence wherof D. Iewel whom M. Mason (2) Consecration of English Bish. p. 267 styleth and esteemeth a Iewel made his so aduenturous a Challenge when he publickly exclaimed at Pauls Crosse O Gregorie O Austin O Hierom O Chrysostom O Leo O Denis O Anaclet O Calixt O Paul O Christ If we be deceaued you haue deceaued vs this you taught vs c. And As I sayd before so I say now againe I am content to yeald and subscribe if anie of our learned Aduersaries or if al the learned men that be aliue be able to bring anie one sufficient Sentence out of anie old Catholick Doctour or Father or out of anie old General Councel c. for the space of 600. yeares after Christ which maketh agaynst anie one of 27. Articles by him there repeated and defended And this he protested to preach not as carryed away with the heate of Zeale but as moued with the simple truth This proffer of D. Iewel was so pleasing to D. Whitaker that he most valiantly renewed it in behalf of al Protestants (3) Resp ad Rat. CaÌ„p p. 90. And see p. 9. saying to our glorious Martyr Campian Attend Campian the speach of Iewel was most true and constant when prouoking you to the Antiquitie of the first six hundred years he offered that if you could shew but anie one cleare and playne Saying out of anie one Father or Councel he would grant you the victorie It is the offer of vs al The same do we al promise and we wil performe it With like courage steppeth forth (4) Of the Church l. 5. in his Appendix therto Part. 1. p. 33. D. Field We say sayth he with Bishop Iewel in his worthie Challenge that al the learned Papists in the world can not proue that either Gregorie or Austin held anie of these twentie seauen Articles of Popish Religion mentioned by him Neither wil D. Morton yeald a foot herein stoutly auouching that (5) Prot. Appeal p. 354. It hath been the common and constant profession of al Protestants to stand vnto the Iudgement of Antiquitie for the continuance of the first foure hundred years and more in al things Yea he further publickly professeth that (6) Protest Appeale p. 573. 574. Protestants in oppugning Doctrines which they cal new and not Catholick c. are so far from suffring the limitation of the first 440. years that they giue the Romanists the scope of the first fiue hundred or six hundred years as our Aduersaries themselues do acknowledge For D. Stapleton writing of the opinion of Luther Caluin and Melancthon sayth that they did yeald vnto the tryal of truth by the testimonie of Antiquitie for the space of the first Fiue or Six hundred yeares M. Campian a Iesuit reporting the Challenge of Bishop Iewel for the mayntenance of these Articles which he then propounded for Catholik sayth that he appealed vnto the Iudgement of Antiquitie for the first six hundred years And againe (7) Ibid. p. 512 Protestants in the disquisition of truth do not absolutely bound the name of Antiquitie within the compasse of the first Centurie of years but are content to allow it a longer extent and therfore in al Doctrines which are truly Catholick c. they refuse not to be tryed by the testimonies of the ancient Fathers in the first fiue hundred years after Christ Yea (8) Ib. p. 680. we repose our securitie in those two impregnable fortresses of the Catholick Faith one is the ancient Tradition of the Primitiue Church as the Protestants are confessed to professe c. So willingly do the learned Protestants prouoke and appeale to the Primitiue Church of Christ for the certayne tryal of truth in matters of Faith and Religion Al which they pretend to do because as Luther sayth (9) Tom. 2. Germ. f. 243. Epist ad Marchionem Branâ—eburg It is dangerous and horrible to heare or beleeue anie thing which is contrarie to the vnanimous testimonie of Faith and to the doctrine of the holie and Catholick Church which she from the beginning agreably kept for aboue One thousand fiue hundred years And as Chemnitius truly obserueth (10) Exam. par 1. f. 74. No man doubteth but the Primitiue Church receaued from the Apostles and Apostolical men not only the Text of Scripture but also the right and natiue sense therof wherupon sayth he (11) Ibid. p. 64. we are greatly confirmed in the true and sound sense of Scripture by testimonie of the ancient Church Which according also to other Protestants (12) Harmonie of Confess p. 400. Is the true and best Mistresse of Posteritie and going before lâ—adeth vs the way Yea sayth D. Beard (13) Retractiue from Romish ReligioÌ„ p. 372 without al question al truth was taught by the Apostles to the Primitiue Church and no part therof was left vnreuealed c. Besides it is as certayn that that Church which next succeeded the Apostles was the most pure and absolute Church whether for doctrine or manners matter or forme that euer was in the world and therefore to degenerate from that must needs be to degenerate from the puritie and sanctitie of Religion And againe it can not be denyed that c. though the Primitiue Age of the Church after the Apostles was most pestered with Hereticks yet euermore the truth preuayled both in regard of birthright and predominance D. Morton Declareth that (14) Protestant Appeale p. 513. In the maine question of discerning the true bookes of holie Writ the Protestants do appeale c. vnto the IudgemeÌ„t of the Primitiue Church attributing vnto it the right and Authoritie of assigning and determining what is the perfect Canon of Scriptures With whom agreeth Chemnitius saying (15) Exam. part 1. p. 69. Andradius affirmeth that the testimonie of the Church is either alwayes to be reiected or alwayes to be receaued I answer c. where the Fathers set downe this Tradition of the books of Scripture they proue it by testimonies of the Primitiue Church if with the same course of certayntie they shal do the like of other Traditions wherof sometimes they make mention it is to be respected and they are to be receaued by the same law D. Sarauia confirmeth the authoritie of the Primitiue Church from her special assistance by the Holie-Ghost saying The (16) De diuersis Ministrorum Gradibus p. 8. Holie-Ghost who gouerneth the Church is the best interpreter
iure diuino Yea M. Mason himself acknowledgeth and that from M. Fox that amongst (54) Consecration of the Bishops in England p. 264 And see Fox Act. Mon. Vol. 2. p. 1295. The Articles sent by Queen Marie to Bishop Bonner one was this Item Touching such persons as were heretofore promoted to anie Orders after the new sort and fashion of Orders Considering they were not ordered in verie deed the Bishop of the Diocesse finding otherwise sufficiencie and abilitie in these men may supply that thing which wanted in them before and then according to his discretion admit them to Minister Here though M. Mason would gladly inforce a different Glosse yet the words are most plaine that Queen Marie and the Church in her time censured such as were promoted to anie Orders after the new sort and fashion of Protestant Orders in K Edwards time were not ordered in verie deed So that stil it deserueth further search whence our present English Clergie as also other forraine Ministers haue obtayned true power and authoritie to preach administer Sacraments And as for Forainers as the Ministers in Germanie Denmark Holland the rest they are so cleerely and confessedly destitute of al true Ordination that M. Mason acknowledgeth that (55) Consec of Engl. Bish. Ep. Dedic wheras other Reformed Churches were constrained by necessitie to admit extraordinarie Fathers that is to receaue ordination from Presbiters or Ministers rather then to suffer the fabrick of the Lord Iesus to be dissolued The Church of England had alwayes Bishops to conferre Sacred Orders according to the ordinarie and most warrantable Custome of the Church of Christ So that no Protestant Ministers in the world haue anie ordinarie Calling or Ordination by Bishops but only the Ministers of England who yet beg and deriue al that which they haue from their imagined Antichrist himself as now shal be shewed Some Protestants therfore teach that they haue their Calling Ordination from the Church of Rome so D. Bridges (56) Defence of the GouernmeÌ„t p. 1276. speaking of our Catholick Bishops and their Calling vrgeth thus in our behalf If our Protestant Brethren wil make them but meer Lay-men then are neither they nor we anie Ministers at al but meer Lay-men also for who ordayned vs Ministers but such Ministers as were either themselues of their Ministerie or at least were made Ministers of those Ministers Except they wil say the people can make Ministers c. yea some (57) SileÌ„ced Ministers supplication of Anno 1609. p. 9. 10. 17. Puritans do reproue their Protestant Brethren for deriuing their Ministerie from the Church of Rome But (58) Cont. Dur. l. 9. p. 820. D. Whitaker exemplifyeth the same saying Luther was a Priest and Doctour according to your Rite or ordination c. And it is manifest that so also was Zuinglius Bucer Oecolampadius and innumerable others c. M. Parkins (59) Vol. 1. p. 737. speaking of the Calling of the first Preachers of the Protestant Ghospel argueth thus If they had no Calling neither haue we that are their followers But They had their Callings c. from the Romish Church itself for they were either Priests or Schoole-Doctours as in England Wiccliffe in Germanie Luther in Bohemia Iohn Husse and Hierom of Prage at Basil Oecolampadius in Italie Peter Martyr others And therefore these with manie others were ordayned either in Popish Churches or in Schooles c. And agayne We say the first restorers of the Ghospel in our times had their first Callings of them to wit the Papists M. Mason discoursing at large of this verie poynt of Ordination and in particular of the Ordination of our English Protestant Clergie confesseth first that the Roman Church hath euer had true power of Ordination (60) Consecration of the Bishops of England Ep. Dedic Such was the goodnes of God saith he that euen in the darknes of Poperie as Baptisme so the Ministerial function c. was wonderfully preserued for the Church of Rome by Gods special prouidence in her ordination of Priests retayned such Euangelical words as in their true and natiue sense include a Ghostlie Ministerial power to forgiue sinnes c. Thus the Church of Rome gaue power to her Priests to teach the truth c. which (61) Ibid. p. 262. Power saith he is a Rose which is found in the Romish wildernes but the plants therof were deriued from the garden of God It is a Riuer which runneth in Aegipt but the fountaine and Spring of it is in Paradise It is a Beame which is seen in Babilon but the original of it is from the Sphere of the Heauen Wherefore when your Priests returne to vs our Church paring away their Pollutions suffereth them to exercise their Ministerial function according to the true meaning of Christs word And agayne (62) Ibid. p. 262. we being content with their calling and commission of their function already committed vnto them do not reiterate their ordination and Imposition of hands And as Catholick Priâ—sts Apostated only through vice are here allowed for sufficient Ministers without al new ordination from anie Protestant SuperinteÌ„dent so doth M. Mason most seriously labour throughout his whole Booke to proue the ordination of the Protestant English Clergie to haue been certainly deriued from our Catholick Roman Church To which end acknowledging that (63) Ibid. p. 64. 65. 66. The whole Clergie of England at this day deriueth their Consecration from Cranmer he painfully laboureth to proue that Cranmer was appoynted by Pope Clement to be Archbishop of Canterburie and that he was Consecrated by three Catholick Bishops which Consecration was performed with wonted Ceremonies according to the vsual forme of the Romane Church which saith he continued al the dayes of King Henrie the Eighth euen when the Pope was banished yea he expresly concludeth his book thus (64) p. 267. Thus it appeareth that although we receaued our Orders from such as were Popish Priests yet our Calling is lawful So cleer it is that M. Mason would be glad to wring his Ministers Ordering from our Roman Church And the like is acknowledged taught by (è) Cath. Trad. p. 183. Buca loc com p. 509. Bernard in his Diswasion from Brownisme p. 144. Whyte in his way to the Church p. 404. Fotherby his Answer annexed to his 4. Sermons p. 81. Sutcliffe against D. Kellison p. 5. Sarauia of diuers Degrees of Ministers p. 9. sundrie other Protestants But here I can not but obserue by the way how strange it is that Protestants should thus much delight and please themselues in their Ordination from Cranmer a man so vicious inconstant and treacherous both to God and man Doth not D Godwin relate that (65) In Cranmsr p. 123. Being yet verie young he â—aryed and so lost his fellowship in Iesus Colledge in Cambridge Doth not Fox report that being Archbishop in his returne from Rome he brought with him a Dutch
Pudding Pye Being indeed no other but a mere Tergiuersation and idle Battologie of distracted perplexed and obstinate men not willing to yeeld or acknowledge the truth and yet not able a deny the certaintie therof Much agreable to that instabilitie and doubtfulnes which (31) Instit c. de fide p 148. And his like perplexed Sayings see Inst l. 4. c. 2. sec 11. 12. Caluin in the same matter expresseth in other words professing Neither simply to grant nor plainly to deny our Catholick Church to be the Church of God And yet such Confidence is placed in this extremest Refuge that in M. Parkins (32) Reform Cath. p 329. Whitak de Eccl. p. 165. Beza in Ep. Theol. ep 1. p. 15. Calu. lib. Epist ep 104 p. 222. his opinion it wil serue to stop the mouths of Papists who demand of vs where our Church was fourscore yeares before Luther For sayth he hereby They are answered that our Church hath been since the dayes of the Apostles and that in the verie midst of the Papacie But to omit that hereby is plainly granted and supposed that Papacie or the Roman Religion hath euer been since the dayes of the Apostles I wil now lay open this last receptacle wherinto our Enemies do so confidently retire And first when they say their Church was in the Papacie since the Apostles dayes they either meane that their Church continued in Popish Countries amongst the Papists without al external Communion with them in Church or Sacraments euen as Catholicks doe at this day in England Scotland Holland Turkie c. Or els that their Church was in the Papacie because she did Communicate with the Papists Church in al external offices Seruice and Sacraments thereof not being in anie external respect to be discerned from the Papists only reseruing in their inmost thoughts and secret Consciences the Faith of Protestants If they intend the first then had it been more congruously sayd that their Church was without the Papacie or neer to the Papacie or among the Papists or in Popish Countries but at no hand in the Papacie that implying the verie Faith and Religion of the Papists no more then a Catholick can endure to heare that the Roman Church or Religion is in the Protestancie Puritanisme Turcisme or the like Besides if the Protestant Church had been thus stil in Popish Countries with external Recusancie of al Popish Seruice Sacraments then we vrge againe as before for some one testimonie proofe or but shadow therof from anie one Writer Record or Monument of al those former Ages but herein they are most silent through their knowne confessed want of al such helpes And therefore they betake themselues to the second meaning of their Church being in the Papacie that is not being only in Popish Countries but in al external Communion and Profession either of Seruice Sacraments or other matters of Faith and Religion being and shewing itself only Papistical Agreably hereunto M. Parkins expounded himself saying (33) Reform Cath. p 328. The true Church hath been in the Roman Church as Corne in the heape of Chaffe And not seuered each from other in outward profession (34) Ib. p. 329. but mixed togeather for external societie like Chaffe and corne in one heape In which sense Osiander so great an Enemie of our Catholick Church that by no meanes (35) Epit. Hist Eccl. Ep. Dedic Cent. 6. p. 290. Cent. 7. 331 he wil acknowledge it for a true Church yet affirmeth that (36) Ep. Dedic Cent. 8. p. 2. In those darkned times the true Church was vnder the Papacie And that so that though (37) Cent. 16. part alt p. 1076. some godlie men inwardly disliked the Popish errours and Idolatrous Sacrifices yet they durst not alwayes openly professe the same (38) Ibid. 1072. Neither durst they freely professe their owne opinions except they would be burned or at least banished Yea these so godlie men sayth he (39) Cent. 8. Ep. Ded p 3. though they gaue not their mind to these Popish Idolatries yet they did not altogeather neglect the external rites and with a common custome as with a violent Streame they were carried away to do the same things with the Papists Many through feare of the Popish Tyrannie not daring to professe that they disliked the Popish worships whose infirmitie God tollerated and pardoned And so sayth he they communicated with the Popish Church in (40) Cent. 16 p. 1073. Cent 8. Ep Ded p 2. Ministerie of the Ghospel or the Word in the Bible in Baptisme in the Lords supper in taking Orders c. such saith he as those times did affoard c. And so thereby were most euidently no other then plaine Papists in al external Profession And according to this D. White also confesseth that these godlie men did not (41) Way to the Church p. 371. alwayes abandon the Communion of the Roman Church c. the Tyrannie of Rome suppressed them so that they could not manifest abroad to the world their dislike c. but by force and violence were constrayned to deuoure their owne Sorrow in the societie of their Aduersaries This external societie of Protestants with Papists in matters of Religion is further granted by the Protestant Molitor (42) Disquisitiones de Eccl. c. p. 114. who writing hereof sayth We affirme the Church in former Ages to haue layne hid in the midst of the Papistrie as in Caues neither durst it through the abominable Tyrannie of the Sonne of Perdition come forth to light Euen as yet to this day many faithful are in the midst of the Romish Babylon who lye hid there as in a Prison and for feare of danger dare not publickly professe the name of Christianitie So that the verie true and last resolued sense of the Protestant Churches being in the Papacie euer since the dayes of the Apostles importeth no more but that in the secretest corners of their harts they beleeued Protestancie and in al external Communion societie and conuersation they liued and dyed Roman Papists But if men had long studied for an answer most foolish and wicked what more apt then this For first no instance or proofe doe they or can they produce whereby to proue these external Papists to haue been indeed internal Protestants this being only a fiction or Imagination of their owne deuoyd of al testimonie Record or probabilitie whatsoeuer Secondly supposing it to be true doth it import or conclude anie lesse but that the sayd Imagined Church of Protestants in this sort being in the Papacie was a most dissembling and adulterous Church publickly denying in word and deed that verie Faith and Religion which inwardly it beleeued only to be true and committing and practising both in life and death manie foule supposed Superstitions and Idolatries with the Popish Church which they firmely beleeued to be most wicked and damnable And is it possible that an hypocritical Church is the Church of
good But yet further they doubt not to affirme the argument or consequence vrged from the (22) Puricans Answ to D. Downham's ser p. 92. receiued opinion in the Church of God euen from the Apostles time vnto our Age to be lyable to iust exception So that though the Fathers of al Ages vp to the Apostles themselues do al of them ioyntly agree with our Roman faith in their Expositions and deliuerie of the sense of Scripture yet may one illuminated Protestant except contemne and reiect them al as not hauing the Spirit nor interpreting according to the Analogie of the Protestant faith But O most miserable and lamentable times O insolencie most impious and incredible What the receiued opinion in the Church of God euen from the Apostles time vnto our Age to be lyable to iust exception The Fathers of al Ages during 1600. yeares of al Countries though most distant in place and different in language and other conditions of nature and gouerment al of them to conspire in one opinion of truth doctrine and yet al of them so fowly and so grosly to erre as that a new-found Protestant is able to discouer it This this may a Protestant often declaime but no man of iudgement can possibly beleeue him Yea our Protestants are so far out of loue and liking with the Fathers as they painfully labour to make the world to think that their Cōmentaries books and beleef were directly contrarie to the Sacred Scriptures and therefore to these they wil euer appeale from the writings of men Captaine Luther 23) L. contra Henricum 8. Regem Angliae saith Against the sayings of Fathers Men Angels and Diuels I place not ancient consent nor the multitude of men but the Ghospel being the Word of One Eternal Maiestie which themselues are enforced to allow Here I stand here I sit here I abide here I glorie here I triumph here I insult ouer Papists Thomists Henricians and al the Gates of Hel much more ouer the sayings of men though neuer so holy and deceauable custome The word of God is aboue al Diuine Maiestie maketh with me so that I care not if a thousand Augustins a thousand Tertullians a thousand Henries or Papistical Churches should stand against me God can not erre and deceiue Austin and Cyprian as also al the Elect may and haue erred My Doctrines shal stand the Pope shal fal Here we haue a man of liuelie Faith but yet heare him further 24) In Comment in ep ad Gal. No other doctrine is to be deliuered or heard in the Church then the pure word of God that is the Sacred Scripture Let other Doctours and Auditours be accursed with their learning but here wanteth Charitie Neither is Luther in this alone for Zuinglius likewise declaymeth 25( In Explanat Artic. 64. Presently thou beginnest to cry Fathers Fathers the Fathers haue so deliuered But I do not ask of thee Fathers or Mothers but I require the word of God In like sort Peter Martyr 26) De Votis p. 462. As concerning the Fathers iudgement because our Aduersaries the Papists are accustomed in this and other Controuersies alwayes to prouoke to them I therfore declare that to me it seemeth not the part of a Christian to prouoke to the iudgements of men from the Scriptures of God Yea saith he 27) Ibid. p. 476. As long as we rest in Councels or Fathers we shal alwayes be conuersant in the same errours And the like is taught by Summerus saying 28) Contr. Carolum l. 1. c. 1. Antiquitie by which they affirme we are condemned is of no force for if they speak of a right beleeuing Antiquitie by which we vnderstand Christ and his Apostles the matter itself cryeth that it is for vs but if they wil vnderstand the same of the authoritie of the Fathers we do not take it il that the word of God is condemned by them Agreably heerunto writeth D. Whitaker 29) Contra Sander p. 92. If you argue from the testimonies of men be they neuer so learned and ancient we yeeld no more to their words in cause of Religion then we perceiue to be agreable to Scripture Neither think your self to haue proued any thing though you bring against vs the whole swarme of Fathers except that which they say be iustifyed not by the voice of men but by God himself And againe 30) Answ to Camp Reas 2. p. 70. And see the like in Abbots in his Answ to His. Reas 10 p. 371. We are not the Seruants of the Fathers but the Sonnes when they prescribe vs anie thing out of the Law and Diuine authoritie we obey them as our parents if they enioyne anie thing against the voice of the heauenlie truth we haue learned not to hearken to them but to God You Papists as vassals and base seruants receiue whatsoeuer the Fathers say without iudgement or reason being affrayd as I think either of the whip or the halter if euerie thing they speake be not Ghospel with you Againe 31) Against Sanders de Antichristo p. 21. We repose no such confidence in the Fathers writings that we take any certain proof of our Protestant Religion from them because we place al our Faith and Religion not in humane but in Diuine authoritie If therefore thou bring vs what some one Father hath thought or what the Fathers vniuersally altogeather haue deliuered the same except it be approued by testimonies of Scriptures it auaileth nothing it gaineth nothing it conuinceth nothing for the Fathers are such witnesses as they also haue need of the Scriptures to be their witnesses If deceiued by errour they giue forth their testimonie disagreeging from Scriptures albeit they may be pardoned erring for want of wisdome we can not be pardoned being green-witted Protestants if because they erred we also wil erre with them Thus doth this Protestant Doctour defend his reiecting the ancient Fathers as writing contrarie to the Scriptures and vpbrayd vs Catholicks for our due estimation of the same and so do Protestants stil labour in derogation of the Fathers to oppose the Sacred Scriptures and holie Fathers as contrarie one to another But al in vaine for who euer more duly reuerenced or more carefully preserued those heauenlie writings then the ancient Bishops and Doctours of the Primitiue Church Who more truly translated them to their greatest paines for the good of al succeeding Ages then those learnedst Fathers Who in searching the deepest difficulties so frequent in them did more submit and captiuate their iudgements then these holy Fathers Who euer more pressed Hereticks with the weight of God's word then those zealous Fathers Who euer writ more large or more learned Commentaries and explanations therof then the aged Fathers And is it then possible that the sayd Fathers should so directly contradict the Sacred Scriptures as our Protestants pretend But this so desperate so vnworthie dealing against the Fathers doth cleerly conuince that