Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	church_n	universal_a	visible_a	1,862	5	9.6958	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00919	A Catholike confutation of M. Iohn Riders clayme of antiquitie and a caulming comfort against his caueat. In which is demonstrated, by assurances, euen of protestants, that al antiquitie, for al pointes of religion in controuersie, is repugnant to protestancie. Secondly, that protestancie is repugnant particularlie to al articles of beleefe. Thirdly, that puritan plots are pernitious to religion, and state. And lastly, a replye to M. Riders Rescript; with a discouerie of puritan partialitie in his behalfe. By Henry Fitzimon of Dublin in Irland, of the Societie of Iesus, priest.; Catholike confutation of M. John Riders clayme of antiquitie.	Fitzsimon, Henry, b. 1566.; Rider, John, 1562-1632. Rescript.; Rider, John, 1562-1632. Friendly caveat to Irelands Catholicks.	1608 (1608)	STC 11025; ESTC S102272	591,774	580

contrary to the will of God Let him bouldly snathe by force or fraud his neighbours substance for he will take nothing vnles god will Zuingl tom 1. in actis disp Tigurinae fol. 628. and approue Witnes thirdly Zuinglius Deus obligauit astrinxit se caelum tribuere non est opus vt pro eo assequendo laboremus God hath bound him selfe to giue vs heauen we need not trauayle to attayne it Luther tom 1. in c. 8. Math. For the fruits insuing such doctrin witnes again Luther De euangelio sic loquuntur quasi sint angeli sed si opera spectes sunt mere diaboli Iterū Credunt sicut sues sicut sues moriuntur they speake so of the gospell Idem narrat in 1. Cor. 15. fol. 161. 162. Calu. de Scandalis pag. 118 127. 128. Ibidem as yf they weare angels but yf you regard their woorkes they are mere deuils Agayne they beleeue like hoggs and as hoggs they dye Witnes agayne Caluin Pastores ipsi inquam pastores qui suggestum conscendunt c. turpissima sunt vel nequitiae vel malorum aliorum exempla Et tales scilicet in contemptu se esse apud plebem aut etiam ludibrij causa digito monstrari conqueruntur Ego autem potius vulgi miror patientiam quòd non eos luto stercoribus mulicres pueri opperiunt Our preachers our very preachers I say who entre into the pulpit c. are ether of wickednes or other euils moer filthye examples And such for soothe repyne to be contemned by the people and to be poynted at in derision But I more admyre the patience of the people that women and children do not load them with myre and dyrt Witnes thirdly Zuinglius Zuingl tom 1. fol. 115. Aestum carnis in nobis feruere negare non possumus cùm huius opera nos coram ecclesijs infames reddiderint VVe can not denye the heat of the fleash to be ardent in vs wheras the workes therof haue made vs infamous to the Churches To discend from the three principal pillers of protestantcie witnes Lewes Hetzer by Luthers relation defyler of fower and twenty marryed women Luth. in Colloq mensal fol. 415. Calu. con Libertin pag. 654. Erasm epist ad Frēs infer Germ. 1. pag. 82. besyde mayds Witnes Quintinus by the same reporter neying after women as stood horses after mares Witnes an apostata frier who as Erasmus recordeth marryed three wyues together But of this pudle sufficient is found in our first 17. number and litle obscuritie is ther in the mater Considering againe that besyd this Romain Churche no other profession hath any stabilitie or cōstancie in their whole doctrin in their sacraments of their scripturs Witnes besyde what is sayd toward the beginning of this examination 7. number of most principal protestants repentance and doubtfulnes of their courses Luther by Zuinglius his declaration appealing Zuingl de Luthero tom 2. resp ad Luth. in prefat Ad eos duntaxat libros quos intra quatuor aut quinque annos conscripserat to thes only of his owne books which he had written fower or fiue yeares before and no others Witnes of Zuinglius against him selfe saying Zuingl to 2. com de vera salsa relig c. de Eucharistia fol. 202. Retractanius igitur hic quae illic diximus tali lege vt quae damus anno aetatis nostrae 42. propendeant eis quae 40. anno dederamus VVe do therfor recant here what we sayd there by this condition that what we deliuer the 42. yeare of our age take place of what was giuen in the 40. yeare Witnes Beza Beza in Colloq Mōpel pag. 150. 268. 388. Fateor me multa scripsisse quae velem à me scripta non esse Vtinam memoria omnium earum aboleretur communi consensu I confess to haue written many things which I wishe had not bene written I would to god the memorie of them all weare abolished Witnes lastly all their translations their confessions their communion books their whole writings althoughe they weare assured as befor that they had all by true reuelation neuer twyse appearing in one lyknes And truely it is ane important point to be considered that thes men of all others the very cheefe leaders to this dance of reformations could not dwell constantly in their entreprise wheras the simple sort who lightly imbraced their doctrin aduentured to abyd fyer and swoord rather then to forsake it being according the prouerb who so bould as blind bayard not only more resolut therin then their preachers of whom few or none but fledd but also as euery one was most simple weauer glouer cobler and principaly women so were they therto most forward Sr. Ihon ould Castle Cromwell the Duke of Northumberland and others of the wyser sorte made by Fox martyrs For Acts Mon. of thes his Martyrs yet according to their wysdome whē they could liue no lōger in the libertie of the gospell they cryed peccaui and recanted their licentiouse beleefe but as I sayd obstineat idiots and willfull women dyed in their infidelitie Seuenthly they impugne this article of beleefe who after reuolting from such Churche as aforsayd had no other refuge to maintayne them selues from blame of noueltie particularitie and lightnes but to appeale to an inuisible Churche remoued from all senses lyke a Platonical Idea separated from all knowledge not extant in any country not mentioned in any historie in which noe voyce of epistle or gospell hath bene heard no sacraments ministred no men or women knowen and all this because their consciences informed them the true visible knowen ancient and vniuersal Churche wherin Christian name the scripturs and sacraments were preserued stood with vs against them Against which ther Fanatical Melanc in loc com c. de Ecclesia an 1561. Cal. 4. Instit c. 2. n. 2. Oecol n. c. 2. Isa Illyric in 1 Matth. Bren. in c. 17. Luc. Luth. in c. 9. c. 52.53 Isa tom 4. Buillng in Apoc. conc 62. 87. and poëtical imagination of a Churche inuisible all learned protestāts ernestly wrote Melancthon tearming it a monstruouse speeche Caluin Oecolampad Illyricus Luther Brentius Lutherus Bullinger and all others refuting and rebuking it as a desperat opinion proceeding from profound infidelitie Consider for gods loue this heauie and vrgent extreamitie by the way They who distrusted Christ words of his true and substantial being in the sacrament and many other mysteries of religion because a natural body say they could not be but in a visible and particular place and god him selfe not to be of power to dispose otherwyse of suche natural body they I say as more powerfull then god Martyr defens con Gard. par 1. obiect 147. obiect 7. dispose of all former Christians notwithstanding their natural bodyes in a congregation inuisible and out of all naturalitie and natural circumscribed places because they could name no visible citie prouince or Kingdome professing

thinke that he is Perseus on his wynged horse Pegasus trāsforming al● his aduersaries into stones that they can not discerne these prooft to be no proofs Cal. in 7. mat et in 9. 12 16 18. Ia c. 6. mac v. 16.17.18 in c. 26. mat In c. 2. Luc. 16. In Ioan. 1. Castal in pref Bibl. ad Edw 6. D. Whitg a pag. 31. ad 51. Stow chron pag. 1022. 1189. 1283. 1551. Melan. in loc con An. 1539. Fol. 8. 10. An. 1545. fol. 53. An. 1558. loco de filio Sebast. Fran. apud Bezam ep 6. Cartwr in 2. replie pag. 191. Ioan. 10.31 but of stupiditie in them alleaging them To ha●e the forsayd woords wel applyed in dede let them first procure that Caluinians leaue to doubt of the diuinitie of Christ. Let them be opposed to Castalio mistrusting the Messias to be yet come Let them be opposed to Atheists abounding euery where since reformation began Let them debarr that there be no successours to Francis Kett master of Art to George Paris and Ihon Lewes lately executed in England for denial of Christs diuinitie Let them confound Melancthon allowing but a parcel of diuinie nature to our Saluiour Let them cōfound Sebastia● Franck accompting Christ no more God then Socrates or Trismegistus Let them confound Cartwright saying the Iewes had bene fooles to accompt him their liuing God whom they did behould a seely aend miserable man These things are written that such should beleeue Iesus is the Sonne of God and that beleeuing they might haue life in his name To proue any thing against vs there can not possibly be any wyse application of them Rider 34. For that faith which can bee prooued to bee taught in Christs tyme and so receiued and continued in the primitiue Church for the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention must needs be the true auncient Apostolicall and Catholicque faith And that other faith that cannot be so proued is but base bastardly and counterfeit and I trust in Christ that the Reader easily shall perceiue before the ende of this small Treatise that this your opinion touching Christs carnall presence in the Sacrament and so in the rest of the other Positions was neuer taught by Christ nor once dreamed on by the auncient Fathers but inuented and deuised a thousand yeares after Christ by the late Church of Rome grounding their proofes onelie of an emptie sound of syllables without Apostolical or Catholicque sence enforcing both Scriptures and Fathers to speake what they and you pleased not what the holie Ghost and the Fathers purposed VVhether M. Rider hath condemned his Church to be base bastard and cownterfet Fitzimon All this app●areth in our 20. number or 30. number 34. YF any thing by him was vnaduisedly affirmed by this his verdict against his owne Church he hath especialy disconfited his profession For first therby he hath condemned Luther and Caluin and their adherents affirming them to haue bene first preachers of Christ and greatest doctours of trueth not only aboue the primatiue ●thers but aboue all that euer were or euer wil be whether they 〈◊〉 Apostles or noe Yf then the religion of the first fiue hundred ●●res be only true and all other but base bastard and counterfet ●w can this new religion Haddon in the end of his epistle Bale cent 1. pag. 66. 72 cent 8. pag. 678. Epistle to the Confer betwixt Latimer and Ridley-Harborough in the last oration which Haddon professed to haue bene ●t thirtie yeares knowen of which all English late writters ●compt Latimer to be the Apostle and saying Luther to haue bene not ●ly the reformer of abuses but the very Father of trueth but therby 〈◊〉 condemned Nay how are not the two most glorifyed Foxian ●artyrs Ridley and Cranmer therby cōdemned saying they would ●oue all the doctrin sett foorth by K. Edward to be more pure then ●y other vsed in England a 1000. yeares befor Is it not therby ●oth professed vnknowen till that time as also not to be the do●rin of Christ For had it bene knowen and his promise true of ●e inuincibilitie therof 16. Matth. it could neuer haue had a 1000. ●ares interruption And what may be sayd of the Prince of Condees ●●scription in his coyne of Golde Lud. XIII Dei gratia Francorum Rex ●imus Christianus Secondly all the disputations and monuments of all principall ●otestāts professing the primatiue Fathers of the first secōd third ●nd fowerth hundred yeares repugnant to protestantcie as appea●eth in the 30. nūber by induction are therby cōdemned Awnswer to Sawnders Rock pag. 248. 278. Beza conf Geneu c. 7. 12. Et in c. 2. ad Thes. Thirdly ●ll the learnedest protestants condemning the Church of the Apo●les tyme and saying Antichrist to haue then begunne and condemning ●l and euery of the Apostles them selues Euangelists and their ●nmediat disciples all these I say are therby condemned For yf ●ese were fauorable to protestantcye Cent. 1. l. 2. c. 10. col 558. 559. 560. Cal. in 1. Cor. c. 4. v. 4. c. 7. v. 9. Rom. c. 9. v. ● Quintin apud Resciā in pref nimistromachie Cent. 1. l. 2. c. 10. Vide Calu. loc cit Bullinger com in 19. 22. Apoc. Quintin loc cit Calu. apud Feuard pref in Ruth Beza de hist adultere Luth. tom 5. fol. 439 440. vitus Theod. pag. vlt. in nou test there had bene no occasion 〈◊〉 despise or disprayse them in such maner as to affirme such de●cts in S. Peter as by the Centuriasts who curiously and not only ●refully haue calculated 15. synnes of his by Beza by Illyricus are 〈◊〉 disparage him carefully and plentifully registred To affirme of 〈◊〉 Paul with Caluin that he was full of colde and heat of presumption te●eritie confusion and precipitation And with Quintinus that he was not a ●osē vessel but a brokē vessel with the Cēturiasts that he was impatiēt 〈◊〉 in desperation during his afflictiōs in Asia dissentiōs toward Barnabas hypo●tical toward Iames others To affirme of S. Ihon with Bullinger that ●his prōptnes to adore the angel he had synned in apostasie With Quintinus to ●arme him Iuuenē stolidulū a foolish youth With Caluin to distrust his 6. Cap. ●nd with Beza his 8. Cap. for vntrue To affirme of S. Iames that he was a ●ruerter of S. Pauls doctrin his epistle bastard coūterfet wicked vnapostolical To affirme with Luther Luth. pref ad nou test in ep Petri tom 3. Wittemb Calu. in c. 2. Mat. v. 15. c. 4. v. 13. c. 8. v. 17. c. 21. v. 9. c. 27. v. 9. Idem Act. 15. v. 40. Tower disp 4. dayes Conference Calu. in c. 21. Act. v. 23. the three first Euangelists to be apochriphal To affirme in particular with Caluin that S. Mathew abused distorted and alleadged vnaptly diuers citations That S. Marke was an Apostat and disloial not to be excused To affirme with Luther that S. Luke was excessiue

as any other not owt of his witt that wher ther is real presence ther also is corporal Secondly Oecolampadius saith Absurdum est si dicamus Christi corpus realiter in coena adesse Oecolamp libello de verbis Domini c It is absurd yf we say the body of Christ to be realy in the supper Fowerthly M. Rider him selfe aunswering the first of the six articles by act of parlament established Caueat before the fowerth proofe that ther is Christs real presence saith this article is sufficiently confuted Yf real presence was neuer in controuersie or denyed how could Lomas and Perne but beleeue it How could it be with Oecolampadius sayd to be absurd to affirme it How could M. Rider say that he denieth it not and yet that he had confuted it Let any frend of M. Riders but read Fox of Ihon Lambert Frith Tindal Barne Anne Askew and all the rest of Foxes principal martyrs to informe M. Rider of this fowle vntrueth and yf he being warned therof by them yet will not reforme it chyde him in my behalfe Secondly in the other vntrueth that I had changed the question why is he not more agreable in suche accusation Sometyme he maketh the state of the question to be betwixt corporal and spiritual sometyme betwixt real and figuratiue sometyme betwixt real and spiritual All is one with him spiritual and figuratiue but not with S. Paul Hebr. 10.1 1. Cor. 15.46 1. Cor. 10.11 graunting the Iewes had figurs and shadd owes in the owld testament but the only new testament to haue thinges spiritual Euery thing with M. Rider that is corporal is suddenly denyed to be spiritual but not with S. Paul saying Yf there be a corporal or natural body ther is also a spiritual Breefly I resolue him in two things First that the question is not altered by me for I inquyre whether Christ be corporaly in the B. Sacrament and not only figuratiuely truely and not only by imagination him selfe and not only his representation figure or appellation Secondly that affirming corporal and spiritual receauing not only to consist but to be requisit together as in all the progresse to be our intention and opinion shall God willing be manifested and is befor certifyed in the 12. nūber I am playnly opposit to protestants in this question who exclude not only the corporal but also the very spiritual being of our Saluiour in this Sacrament Yf you admire that I appeach you to vse the woord spiritual vniustly and deceitfully chafe not but listen and you shal discerne that I proue what I affirme and also defeat your opinion of all the mystie tearmes by you purloined to make your Lords supper vaynely seeme mystical I confesse my selfe to be sometyme offended with our learned Cōtrouertists because they suffre the aduersaries with out all right to chawnt or harp vpon euery mention of spiritual spiritual being of Christ in the B. Sacrament as being fauourable to them wheras indeed their doctrin is carnal not only by grosse and pharisaical conceauing of the woord Corporal but also by not induring the woord Spiritual to be belonging to that diuine mysterie which hetherto few seeme to haue duely obserued I dowbt not by the grace of God but to make it euident euen to the most slumbring eyes that they haue no title or interest in ether the corporal or spiritual or faythfull or figuratiue or Sacramental being in this mysterie Wherof now let these two proofes serue for a tast 〈◊〉 difference sayd the protestant martyrs betweene the faythfull and papists concerning the sacrament is that the papists say that Christ is corporaly vnder or in the forms of bread and wyne but the faythfull say that Christ is not there nether corporaly nor spiritualy Next saith Musculus the bread is the body of Christ nether naturaly nor personaly nor realy nor corporaly nor yet spiritualy Vide n. 96.108 nor figuratiuely nor significatiuely it remayneth after all these that we say the bread is the body of Christ sacramentaly As for Sacramentaly it also shal be recouered from them What occasion had I then to alter the question as yf Christ could not be sayd to be corporally in the Sacrament but therby should be denyed that he were spiritualy or yf he were founde to be spiritualy therby the protestāt opiniō should be fauored or my opinion disaduantaged S. August l. 3. de doctrina Christiana c. 10. Truely sayd S. Augustin when the mynde is preoccupated by any errour what soeuer the scripture hathe so the contrary they take it to be spoken Figuratiuely Which is verifyed in our aduersaries who being preoccupated by errour do strayne and wrest all woords owt of their natural signification by some figuratiue collusion to serue their turns especialy in affecting such as haue dowbtfull and ambiguous significations whether thy belong to them or no therby to lurke vnknowen in darknes As in our controuersie yf any as I sayd inferr Christ to be Corporaly and realy present they except against it yf they can finde that any spiritual woord or vnderstanding be implied together therwith as yf forsooth Corporal Spiritual cowld not in any wise to consist together but they to whom nether of both belong must not be ouerthrowē therby or by any of the rest that refuteth them Yf any suffrage of the Fathers testifie the same yf they finde the least mention of figure Sacrament or signe conioyned ther withall they seeme to be well defensed by such a target inferring thervpon that no veritie cowld be together both trueth and figure substance and sacrament body and signe although hundreds of assurances perswade the contrary and that the same as I sayd is made a safegard to their figure only only signification only representation Such reasoning may some tyme breed tediousnes but litle trauayle in refelling it wherof yf wisdome ouercome the tediousnes discretion shal moderat the trauayle Now at least appeareth how destitute their opinion is of spiritualitie and how pretending it hetherto in shew was to take a Iosephs cloak to a deceitfull cloaking of a synnfull dishonestie 36. GEntlemen you mistake vtterly Christs meaning Turne back to the 3● pag. and place the four last lines begining The bread which I c. as title to this 36. paragraph of M. Rider and then read as here followeth Gentlemen you mistake c. wresting Christs wordes from the spirituall sence in which he spake to the litterall sence which he neuer meant ancient Fathers neuer taught Primitiue Church of Christ for one thousand yeares at least after Christs ascention neuer knew or receiued For the words and phrases be figuratiue and allegorical therefore the sence must be spirituall not carnal For this is a generall rule in Gods booke ancient Fathers yea and in your Popes Canons and glosses that euerie figuratiue speech or phrase of Scripture must be expounded spirituallie not carnally or litterallie as anone more plainlie you shall heare But

his wonte towards the greatest mysteries of his passion ascension comming of the holy Ghost c. and not by institution It being cleere among Catholicks I will auerr it by protestāts Martyr in defens Eucha Con. Gardin par 3. pag. 644. 547. Bucer in c. 6. Ioan. in cap 26. Math. Ecpenceus in Apolog. That saith Peter Martyr which Christ promised in the sixt of Ihon that he performed in the last supper Martin Bucer vpon the very sixt of Ihon and else where craueth pardon of God that euer he had bewitched any with your opinion that Christ handled not his true real and corporal being by way of premonition in this Chapter Lyke repentance had also Peter Martyr for some tyme being of your imagination As also had Oecolampadius by his ovvne testimonie Oecolamp ad Land Hess 1529. Feuard in pref com in Ruth Vide in examine symboli n. 7. Calu. con Heshusium Beza in Creophagia Tygurenses con test Brency Micomius in S. Marc. pag. 150. Cureus in Spongia Daneus con Selneccerum Cautier pag. 186. c. Caueat a litle befor saying Vtinam pri●ceps illustrissime abscissa fuisset mihi haec dextera cùm primum inciperem de negotio Coenae Dominicae quicquam scribere I would most excellent prince that this right hand of myne had bene chopped off when I began first to wryte owght of the Lords supper Feuardent reporteth that Caluin misbeleeued S. Ihon to haue bene authour of this sixt chapter because it was to cleere against his imagination Yet Caluin him selfe in his booke against Heshusius approueth it to treat of the Sacrament So dothe Beza The ministers of Zurick Miconius Cureus Daneus Cautier c. So lastly doth most cleerly M. Rider not long befor against him selfe saying who soeuer dwel in Christ and Christ in them only eate Christs fleash and drinck Christs blood Which saith he being Christs woords in the sixt of Ihon verse 56. it were damnable to doubt of them Then suerly it can not be but damnable to doubt of Christs mentioning the Sacrament in the sixt of Ihon wherby he is eaten of vs dwelleth in vs and we in him I trust you will not deny now to haue bene aunswered to your full expectation and smal consolation For both S. August and Lyra contradicteth your information your brethren confute it and your selfe disproue it then which what fowler disgrace could happen to a wryter But I will make it yet fowler by ingadgeing your pretious Iuels credit Iwels replie against Harding art 5. Diuisione 3. pag. 323. whether Christ did not mētion the eating of his flesh in the 6. of S. Ihon or not he cōfidently saying That Christ in the sixt of S. Ihon speaketh of the spiritual eating by fayth by which his very fleash and very blood indeed and verily is eaten and drunken Notwithstanding we say that Christ afterward in his last supper vnto the same spiritual eating added also an owtward sacrament or figure Behould his assurāce that Christ did here treat of eating Christ and that his speache here belongeth to that he after ordayned Rider You are not onely taxed by Aug. to bee ignorant in the circūstance of the text but also in the sence of the text which is a grose thing in diuines 42. Now you shall heare Augustine tell you that this sixt of Iohn is to be taken figuratiuelie and allegoricallie and therefore spirituallie meaning that the speeches and phrases which Christ vsed be borrowed and translated from the bodie to the mind from eating and drinking to beleeving from chamming with the teeth to the beleeuing with the heart So that what eating and drinking is to the bodie that beleeuing is to the soule And as bread and flesh be meat corporall for the bodie so Christ our bread is made spirituall for the soule And as corporall meats are taken with the corporall mouth so are spirituall meates Christ crucified with all his benefits receiued with faith the mouth of the soule And therefore to teach all posterities how to expound these words of Christ hee giues a generall rule perpetually to be obserued in GODS church Saying (a) De doct Christ. lib. 3. cap. 16. Si praeceptiua locutio est c. If the Scriptures seeme to commaund an horrible or vile fact the speech is figuratiue The secōd proofe out of the sixt of Iohn and then alleadgeth your second proofe that you bring out of the sixt of Iohn for example Except you eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloud yee shall haue no life in you Facinus flagitium videtur iubere Christ in this place seemes to commaund a wicked and horrible act Figura est ergo It is therefore a figuratiue speech commaunding vs to keepe in mind that his flesh was crucified tormented for vs. Now examine Augustines exposition To eate corporallie reallie and substantiallie Christs flesh with our material mouths and to drinke his precious substantiall reall bloud with our bodilie lips is a horrible thing Therefore Christs words bee figuratiue So that by Augustines owne words your litterall sence carnall presence is wicked and horrible howsoeuer you cloake it with fained titles to blinde the eies and deceiue the hearts of simple Catholiques And if you would but read the fifth chapter of the foresaid booke you should see his Christian caueat he giues to Gods Church touching this point In principio cauendū est ne figuratā locutionē ad litterā accipias c. First of all you must beware that you take not a figuratiue speech according to the letter his reason followes for the letter that is the litterall sence killeth But the spirit that is the spirituall sence giueth life For when we take the figuratiue speech for a proper speech we make the sence carnall neither is there anie thing more fitlie calld the death of the soule Thus you see Aug. teacheth if you would learne that if the speech be proper the sence must bee litterall and carnall but if it be figuratiue it must bee misticall and spirituall and alleadgeth this your own text for the same So I would wish you either follow Augustines doctrine or else cease to vse Augustines and the rest of the Fathers names for in vsurping their names and peruerting their doctrine you abuse the Fathers and deceiue the Catholiques Your Bernard also in later times condemnes your absurd vnchristianlike exposition of this your owne text Ber. Serm. 33. inps Qui habitat Fol. 68. Col. 2. Vnlesse you eate the flesh of Christ c. He asketh the question Quid autē est manducare eius carnem bibere sanguinem nisi communicare passionibus eius eam conuersationem imitari quam gessit in carne What is to eate Christs flesh and drinke his bloud but to communicate with his passions and to imitate his holie conuersation in the flesh And then followeth Vnde hoc designat illibatum illud Altaris Sacramentum vbi

some perticuler persons quick or dead as the Priest pleaseth VVhether Christs woords teach Christs fleash to haue bene only giuen on the Crosse Fitzimon 44. THis argument auerreth effectualy the precedent attestations as being out of all the 19. moods and three figures allowed in philosophie For by haueing the medium or meane twyse in the predicato or later part of the propositions it should be in the second figure and being deformed in that figure it is excluded out of all the rest The deformation appeareth that the second proposition should haue bene and is not in this maner but the fleash of Christ in the Sacrament was not only giuen on the Crosse from which it varyeth by omitting all the former parte and exchangeing the being giuen on the Crosse into the being of a material Crosse The conclusion also is misshapen as which ought only to haue bene therfor the fleash of Christ in the Sacrament was not promised in the sixt of Ihon. Because I am Rom. 1.14 Debitor factus sapientibus insipientibus made a debtour to the learned and vnlearned I haue borrowed licence of the vnskillfull in Philosophie to haue in a start followed this mater in his kinde Now to the capacitie of all I aunswer to the first proposition The 19. vntruth that it is euidently the 19. vntrueth and against Christs expresse promise in the 6. of S. Ihon promising that besyd his giuing his flesh to be crucifyed he would also giue him selfe to be eatē of vs saying vnlesse you eate c. I aunswear to the next that it is true that Christs fleash in the Sacrament was not only giuen on the Crosse as being also giuen to be eaten in the Sacrament The conclusion is contayned in the premisses and so denyed or affirmed as the premisses All the residue is ether specified and reuersed in the 40. or 43. numbres or els being voyd speeches at randome need noe further resolution Behould beloued reader Ioan. 6. v. 51.53.55 to these woords of Christ this bread which I will giue is my flesh for the life of the worlde no woord of worthe or witt is replied but time Ioan. 14.6 cap. 7.17 and wynde wasted in most idle diuagations Is Christ the trueth are his woords as the Euangelist affirmeth the veritie why then the bread he gaue was his fleash not his figure then his fleash was not only crucified but also eaten then his fleash is meat truely and not figuratiuely To aunsweare therfor to these pregnant and infallible woords of Christ him selfe only that we mistake not shewing how the Fathers denye when and what they affirme apparently that Christs woords are spiritual and therfor not litteral and for other aunswer to digresse into reproaches to multiply woords to beat the wynde not shewing any defense or warrant of Scripture or Father for your figure only without veritie appellation only without substance representation only without commoditie such aunswearing I say is breefly Psal 4. v. 3. Diligere vanitatem querere mendacium to loue vanitie and to seeke lyes The third proofe of the Catholique Priests out of the sixth of Iohn to prooue Christs carnall presence in the Sacrament Catholicque Priests Vers 55. My flesh is meate truelie and my bloud is drinke trulie Rider 45. YF you should aske your boy in his Grammer rules a question if he aunswered not in the same case or by the same tense of a verbe that the● question is asked by you will count him a silie Grammatist But if you aske your Sophister a question in quid and hee aunswere in quale you will ta●● him for an improper and impertinent aunswere But most of all if a great Diuine be asked a question to prooue the manner of a thing and he neglecting or omitting that as too hard or impossible for him prooues the matter that was neuer demaunded or doubted of what will the Reader thinke of this matter this man and this proofe Surelie he must say either he vnderstandeth not the state of the question or else he is not able to prooue the question and so vseth this shameful shift i● steed of a sufficient proofe All the Catholiques in this kingdome expected to be satisfied by your aunswer touching the manner of Christs presence in the Sacrament whether it be carnal or spirituall and whether he must be eaten by faith spirituallie or the teeth carnally And your aunswere is as improper and impertinent as either Grammatist or Sophister for you leaue the maner of Christs presence which you should prooue and bring the matter of his presence which was neuer in question saying My flesh is meat truly c. How this your aunswere doeth relish of learning let the learned iudge When a● the Catholiques in the kingdome hang their soules on your saying Are these you contentments you giue them If they aske you how they must eate Christs fle● drinke Christs bloud then you tell them my flesh is meate in deed and my bloud 〈◊〉 drinke in deed Doe you aunswere their question or satisfie their conscience or resolue their doubts alasse no. Thus you haue dealt dallied and deceiued a long time Christs people with these your improper impertinēt vnprofitable nay vntrue aunsweres and yet you will be called Fathers Doctours and what not But I pray you tell me why you added not the next words of Christ you thought they were against you But if you had dealt as men hauing Gods fea● before your eies you would not haue staied there for the next verse plainely discouers your bad dealing with the simple people for that aunswereth their question and that would satisfie all good Catholiques in this point For if you aske there the holy Ghost this question how must Gods children eate Christes flesh and drinke Christs bloud he will aunswere you that whosoeuer dwels in Christ and Christ in him eates Christs flesh and drinkes Christs bloude but the faithfull onely dwell in Christ and Christ in them therefore the faithfull onely eate Christs flesh and drinke Christs bloud whether it be in hearing the word in baptisme or in the Lords Supper as you haue heard before If you had added this verse it h●● ouerthrown your carnall presence in the Sacrament and your orall eating of Chris● with your mouth teeth c. But as you wrong the Catholiques with an impertiti●● answere and as you abuse them by keeping backe the next words of Christ which expounds his owne meaning So heere you abuse your holie Father the Pope and your deare mother the Church of Rome in expounding this text contrarie to the Romane sence The second parte of the Catholicks first proofe by Scriptures 45. HEere in the woords of Christ is assured Fitzimon for the matter that it is fleashe and consequently not his appellation only for the manner that it is truely and consequently not figuratiuely only yet doth this proctor of the protestant profession only to cauill tell that the mater was

therefore figuratiue against your opinion You shall heare the Church of Rome deliuer her owne minde with her owne mouth which you cannot denie her wordes be these Ipsa immolatio carnis quae sacerdotis manibus fit Christi passio mors crucifixio dicitur non rei veritate sed significante misterio That offering of the flesh which is done by the hand of the Priest is called the passion death Dist. 2. de consecratione canon Hoc est pag 434 You cannot den●● but this Pop● was a Protestant and if this canon be Catholicke then is your carnall presence antichristian and crucifying of Christ but not in exactnesse of trueth but in misterie of that which was signified and the glosse there maketh most plaine against you Dicitur corpus Christi sed improprie vt sit sensus vocatur corpus Christi id est significat corpus Christi It is called the bodie of Christ but improperly that is figuratiuely that this be the sence it is called the bodie of Christ that is it signifieth the bodie of Christ Fitzimon 57. How M. Rider abused the decretals and how by them he receaued vtter destruction to his cause is demonstrated in the 46. number Yet now agayne he kicketh against the prick wel then doth the text and glosse say that the immolation of the preist is called improprely the passion and death of Christ Truly and so will all Catholicks say the same For who euer heard the masse of the preist to be proprely the cruental acte of the Iewes against Christ or called the cruental sacrifice on the Crosse This is as much against vs as when we graunt it to be true we loose no more therby then a candle doth in giuing light to another candle reseruing as much light in it selfe as if it had lighted none So although we affirme all that is now produced M. Riders sute is graunted and our light nothing deminished Rider 58. I will alleadge in this case other Popes and the faith of the Church of Rome in another age whereby the Reader may plainelie see that the auncient Popes and auncient Rome had the true succession in doctrine which we stand now on not that false succession of the place and a rotten worme-eaten chaire that you brag of De consecratione dist 2 Panis est in altare Glossa ibid. page 435. the glosse speaketh thus against your litteral sence of Hoc est corpus meum Hoc tamen est impossibile quod panis sit corpus Christi yet this is impossible that bread should be the body of Christ Not possible by their owne confession that bread should bee the bodie of Christ. Now gentle Reader see the wrong the late Popes and Priests offer to the Catholicks of this kingdome they would haue them imbrace that for faith which the old Church of Rome held for heresie that for possibilitie which she saith is impossible Why would you haue vs to beleeue that which you your selues say is impossible This all the Iesuits and Priests in Christendome cannot aunswere If you say these two Popes and the Church of Rome then taught the truth why doe you now dissent from the olde Romane faith If you saye the Popes and Church of Rome then erred you will be counted an hereticke and therefore in Gods feare confesse the trueth with vs and the olde Church of Rome and deceiue the Catholickes of this kingdome no more with this litteral sence of Hoc est corpus meum which you borrow from the late Popes and late Church of Rome and is a new error dissenting from the old Catholicke faith Fitzimon 58. Here is great want of integritie In the glosse alleaged is affirmed that the saying it is impossible that bread should be the body of Christ should be takē according to a sound maner to witt during the being therof bread For the saying that of bread is made the body of Christ Ita vt post consecrationem non sit iam ibi panis sed verum corpus Christi So that after consecration bread is ther no longer but the true body of Christ is towld to be the sound maner and meaning intended in the very same text and glosse Whether then can he seeme to any men Catholicks or others which had the face and conscience to misreport this glosse and to informe the decretals thus distroying protestantcie to stand for protestantcie woorthy to be houlden a lawfull Preacher or a faithfull witnes or conscionable informer or as being a godly spiritual honest preacher when so many others his betters are in great extremitie to haue yearly aboue 1500. raziers or cowmbs of corne besyds other commodities in such a choise deanry I know not how many vntruethes besyd all other faultines any other would skore vp in these woords which I calculat but for the 43 vntrueth only The 43. vntruth Let others imagin what discontentment and tediousnes any religious mynde might conceaue to incountre so contrarious a spirit or such a spirit of contradiction against knowen trueth 59. And I will adde one other Popes Canon Rider Corpus Christi quod sumitur de Altari figura est dum panis vinum videntur extra Dist 2. can Corpus Christi pag. 438. col 4. You cannot denie this Pope to be a protestant in this point veritas autem dum corpus sanguis Christi in veritate interius creditur The bodie of Christ which is taken from the Altar is a figure so long as the bread and wine are seene vnreceiued but the truth of the figure is seene when the bodie and bloud are receiued trulie inwardly and by faith into the heart Now the glosse in that place expoundeth the text and saith Corpus Christi est sacrificium corporis Christi alias falsum est quod dicit The bodie of Christ in the text signifieth the sacrifice of the bodie of Christ otherwise it is false Out of which I note the Church of Rome cals the outward Elements Christs bodie that is a figure of his bodie being not receiued though consecrated Secondly that the bodie of Christ wherof the Sacrament must be a figure The Popes glosse against the Popes text must be receiued by faith into the soule not by the mouth into the stomacke Now the glosse saieth the text is false vnlesse c. But I leaue the iarre to be reconciled by you who be the Popes friends yet this I say And Gelasius another Pope more auncient then those against Eut. is of this opinion Maledicta glossa quae corrumpit textum These three Popes and the Church of Rome in those dayes it was before the birth of your Transubstantiation and your carnall presence jumpt with all the old Fathers and the Primitiue Church that liued the first sixe hundred yeares after Christ and say it is called the bodie of Christ the flesh of Christ the passion and death of Christ but not rei veritate not indeed and

with what Christian courage and spirituall manhood ought we that professe to bee Christians reuenge our Christs death vpon his cruell bloudie and malicious enemies which so mercilessy put him to death Rom. 4. the last verse these enemies be our sinnes for he died for our sinnes which let vs mortifie nay murther them let vs kill surfetting by abstinence adulterie by continencie cruelitie by mercie hatred by loue couetousnesse by almes superstition by religion c. These and the like consorts of sinne put our Caesar Christ to death Therefore when we heare not Marcus Anthonius but anie man of God out of the booke of God preach vnto vs Christs bloudie passion that died in our quarrell 1. Cor. 11.22 and shed his bloud for our sinnes let the remembrance of his precious death and mercifull deliuerance put vs in minde to reuenge his death by killing our sinnes which slew our Sauiour and endeuour to serue him with all thankfulnesse in a life spirituall who hath deliuered vs freelie from death eternall Now see what comfort the Catholickes loose for the lacke of this Apostolicall rememberance of me ad this commeth by your omitting of that you should not passe without expressing the true tenour of it as you receiued it of the Lord for the profit of his Church Thus much touching the spirituall comforts concealed from the people by your skipping of Scriptures now let vs see what errours purposelie you seeke to couer by this course 85. By this sermon Fitzsimon you see what M. Rider could doe yf he were vrged for yf he be vrgerd he often promiseth wonders to delate vpon Christs passion Two things I say vnto him One that he mistaketh Christs woords do this in remembrance of me supposing it to be fullfilled by preaching For Christ at that tyme by M. Riders confession was not preaching but in action Secondly that to such glosing verbal and idle talkers thes are Caluins woords Our gospel of which we vawnt so much Cal. in cap. 1. ad Rom. wher is it otherwyse for the most parte then on the toung wher is the newnes of lyfe wher is the spiritual efficacie Note in thes last woords what others euer yet sacred and prophane called good woorks here in a puritanical phrase to be called spiritual efficacie Note next that M. Rider to the Scripture here misaplyed owt of the Acts of Apostles foisteth in a clause of his owne to witt not only vnto men wherof ther is no sillable in the new testament So great an itching vexeth him to corrupt and depraue that be it Canon or testimonie of Father or Scripture it selfe it must not passe without his falsification Thus much being sayd to this sermon I behowld nothing els worthy consideration therin For they are but friuolous woords hauing some speciem pietatis shew of pietie but denying the effect therof I am also in great dowbt whether this relation of the Romans reuenge against them that slew Cesar be not for the most part forged For as I remembre they fled and were not together slayne So that I admyre this mans mistaking all points of learning of Diuinitie of Philosophie of Geographie of Arithmatick of Histories as well sacred as prophan of Greeke of Latin of English of French of Orthographie of all and singular sciences and yet to take so much vpon him as some tyme to say I will lay downe what you are to beleeue in spyte of Pope and poperie some tyme to taxe others ignorance and at all tymes to talke Doctoraly Rider 86. First if you had put downe these words In rememberance of me and till I come these two had ouerthrowne your carnall presence Errors for if the bread wine must bee receiued in rememberance of Christ then bread and wine are not Christ substantiallie corporallie Mat. 28.6 and by way of transubstantiation And if Christ be risen as the Angell said and as wee in our Creed confesse and that we must receiue this Sacrament in his rememberance till he come then Christ being not come but to come is not nor cannot be carnallie and bodilie vnder the formes of bread and wine as you fondlie imagine Fitzsimon 86 At the margent of this number a notorious marke of errours is placed so that it is lyke ther should be some stuff contayned That these woords Do this in remembrance of me distroyeth all our persuasion it is so iust as cuius contrarium verum est for ther is not any clause wherby it is much more established First that he biddeth vs doe and not speake doth palpably subuert your late surmise of performance therof by a ministers sermon Secondly to bidd vs facere to doe in Scripture is not seldome but very often all one and to bidd vs to sacrifice as faciet vnum pro peccato he shall sacrifice or doe one for synne Leuit. 15. Luc. 2. and in the new testament vt sisterent eum Domino facerent secundum consuetudinem legis pro eo that they might present him to our Lord and sacrifice or doe for him according to the custome of the law Leuit. 12. Which commanded a lambe and pigeon or two pigeons or two turtles to be offred at such presentation as appeareth amply in Gods holy woord Conformably therto saith S. Cyprian Oportet nos obaudire S. Cyprian epist 63. facere quod Christus fecit we must be attentiue and to doe what Christ did who as is shewed the number next befor did sacrifice Martin pope subscribeth saying Martin Papa epist ad Burdegal c. 3. hoc eum ipse Dominus iussit nos agere in sui commemorationem For this our Saluiour commanded vs to doe or sacrifice in his remembrance in ara sanctificata vpon a sanctifyed altar Now to the argument of M. Rider Christ teacheth this to be done in remembrance of him therfor he is not substantialy present I aunswer that it is done in remembrance of his visible passion on the crosse which visible passion is noe longer present 1. Cor. 11.26 such to be the sence appeareth by S. Paul saying as oft as you shall eate this bread and drinke this cupp you shall anownce his visible death till he come Wherby appeareth this remembrance not to be ane impediment against the reiteration of his inuisible presence in the masse but only against it on the crosse Secondly I aunswer that the remembrance ther mentioned is to be referred not so much to Christs person absolutly as to his operation and institution at that tyme. For such to be the sence appeareth not only by Catholicks thervpon fownding their preisthood but also by Protestants thervpon grounding their authoritie to dispense the supper as they call it of the Lord. For no other warrant haue they in Scripture so to do but this only Lastly I aunswer to gather that one must be absent because he must be remembred is some what absurde Gods woord aduyseth vs not to forgett the

the centuriasts aforsayd is confessed that the Popes of Rome sommoned General Concils that they were the presidents in them that they confirmed them and some tyme in parte sometyme wholy Vide Cent. 2. cap. 7. Cent. 5. c. 7. c. when ther was occasion disanulled them Anacletus liuing in the first hondred yeares after Christs ascension sayd Sacro sancta Romana Apostolica ecclesia non ab Apostolis sed ab ipso Domino saluatore nostro Primatum obtinuit sicuti beato Petro Apostolo dixit Cap. Sacrosancta p. 1. d. 22. Tu es Petrus super hanc Petram edificabo ecclesiam meam The most holy Roman and Apostolick Church not by the Apostles but by our very Lord and Sauiour hath obtayned the Primacie as he sayd to B. Peter the Apostle Thow art Peter and vpon this rock will I build my Church Origen toward the same tyme sayth Quis esset altior Apostolorum eo qui est dicitur vertex eorum Orig. ho. 2. de Euangelistis VVho should be more high of the Apostles then he who is and is called their head The same question in lyke phrase is inquyred by S. Austin Who S. Aug. super Ioan. c. 6. as all others excepting only certain obscure Reformers that first denyed S. Peter to haue bene Pope of Rome and after vpon contrarie knowledge reuoked their denial do attribut to the Roman cheyre all prerogatiues of S. Peter as by diuers euidences yea and Imperial decrees is succinctly touched in the first and second title to this Rescript and not omitted in our aunswer to the Caueat And so the Fathers say S. Iren. l. 3. c. 3. S. Cypr. l. 4. ep 8. S. Hiero. ep 57. ad Damas. S. Aug. ep 162. S. Innoc. ep 93. inter epistolas S. Aug. S. Greg presat in con S. Prosper l. de Ingratis S. Irineus Euery Church must reyle to the Roman Church S. Cyprian It is the mother Church S. Hierome It is the chaire vpon which the Church is bulded S. Austin It hath the preheminence of the Apostolical chaire S. Innocēt According the ancient rule it should ouersee all Churches S. Gregorie By Gods appointement it is preferred to all Churches Prosper Rome by Pastoral honor is made the head of the world To all these thinke you will M. Rider haue nothing to aunswer yes I warrant you He hath aunswered alreadie All these are taken by the sownd and not by the sense The phrase is pretie and is a Riderian aunswer to all which yf you will not accept you must haue noe other because it is their opinion as euen Luther of the very sorte sayth Although they touch not one argument Luth. tom 7. defens verb. cene fol. 394. 397. yet that they haue aunswered the mater passing well and such is their gredines to defend their credit that it maketh them giddie and frantick in such sorte that what soeuer they take hould of though it be but a straw yet they imagin it to be a swoord or speare and that at euery stroake they kill thowsands A truer man could neuer haue spoken of them more truely in this the rather to be beleeued that none could be better acquainted with the Childrens disposition then their Father Sed vanis stolidus haec omnia parturit error Lucretius But their reforming error alloweth them noe other shifts That he affirmeth me to haue fallen in proofs from the Popes Iurisdiction to the largenes of the Popes possessions For the first part it is now detected to be what it is For the second I aske all reasonable vnderstandings how could I more pertinently satisfie his insidiouse article that the Pope claymed not temporal Iurisdiction ouer all Princes and their subiects in causes temporal then by rehearcing the few places wherunto he pretendeth temporal clayme Those I sayd to be Rome Cicilia Sardinia Corsica Terras citra Pharum Patrimonium Petri in Thuscia Ducatum Spoletanum Comitatum Venusinum Comitatum Sabinensem Marchiam Anconitanam Massam Trebariae Romandi lam Campaniam Maritas Prouincias illarumque terras loca Terras specialis commissionis Arnulphorum Bononiam Cesenam Ariminum Beneuentum Perusium Auenienam Ciuitatem Castelli Tudertum Ferariam Cl●macum Of which in some he hath noe temporal command as in Cicilia in others wherof many are but meane townes he so ruleth as they were neuer so much contented nor happie vnder other gouernement And consequently the greater credit may be giuen to the booke of dangerous positions Pagina 30. 97. that the rule of Puritans hath wrought more mischefe in Geneua in thirtie yeares thē the Pope of Rome in fiue hōdred He is noe papist that so speaketh but the author of a booke by publick authoritie in our late Queens dayes approued And it needeth noe confirmation to him that knoweth euen by Caluins owne confession and by many others that Caluin and Farell Calu. in epistolis were banished with this elogium out of Geneua Tyranni esse voluerunt in liberam ciuitatem they would haue bene tyrants ouer a free citie Of which their seditious and rebelliouse disposition all contryes wher they are cities or other places do witnes their rule in dede not to be Papal but Pharaonical and Pharisaical These forsayd territories I named principaly that all may behould noe Pope hetherto to haue claymed Iurisdictions in our parts ouer Princes and their subiects in causes temporal therby to iudge the better of the impertinencie of such malicious extrauagant inserted by my Caualiero and of the litle wysdome of our Challenor who to be a Doctor could fynde noe mater in Diuinitie or other science of disputation but owt of all diuinitie and partly contrary to it these only three ridiculous theses being in parte blasphemous paradoxes that Christ discended not into hell the Churche of Rome had apostated Irland was not Peters patrimonie 13. And last of all I pray you tell him Rider that I will not disgest his omissions in answering the matters in my Preface all of them being so materiall as those two testimonies out of August Agolertus complaint of the blasphemous errours of the Popes Antiphonarie which sheweth the heresie of the Pope pronounced by his owne Chaplen as also for the filthie life lewednesse of the Pope and his Cardinals exclaimed on by his owne Commissioners 1538. Prostibulum Meritricum as also that the Popes owne Pallace of Lateran by the Popes owne Proctor his confession is become a most filthie stewes these things he would omit foolishly frame to himself a By-matter out of the question to prattle on as against Luther but omitting to answere me in this point that I vrged him withall which was this That Luthers opinion of Consubstantiation is Poperie De Cons dist 2. cap. non prim in glossa tertia tenet And that Luthers foolish heresie was helde and maintained in Rome 273 yeares before Luther was borne as the Popes owne Records to the