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sense_n church_n scripture_n true_a 17,695 5 5.9223 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A66413 The Protestant's answer to The Catholick letter to the seeker, or, A vindication of the Protestant's answer, to the seeker's request Williams, John, 1636?-1709. 1688 (1688) Wing W2720; ESTC R2915 32,577 43

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he_o be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n with_o they_o indeed_o after_o all_o our_o author_n confidence_n in_o this_o matter_n and_o his_o question_v all_o thing_n if_o this_o be_v question_v he_o determine_v that_o which_o the_o great_a authority_n in_o his_o church_n the_o council_n of_o trent_n will_v not_o determine_v for_o when_o it_o have_v be_v sharp_o debate_v for_o and_o against_o these_o word_n be_v understand_v of_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v at_o last_o agree_v for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o both_o side_n neither_o to_o affirm_v nor_o deny_v it_o and_o to_o yield_v to_o those_o that_o deny_v it_o that_o they_o have_v father_n and_o doctor_n on_o their_o side_n and_o thus_o the_o council_n conclude_v however_o that_o discourse_n of_o our_o saviour_n joh._n 6._o be_v understand_v according_a to_o the_o divers_a interpretation_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o doctor_n sess_z 21._o c._n 1._o here_o our_o author_n take_v a_o great_a leap_n from_o pag._n 9_o of_o the_o answer_n to_o pag._n 22._o but_o because_o it_o be_v not_o amiss_o i_o shall_v follow_v he_o the_o protestant_a answerer_n put_v it_o to_o they_o to_o give_v as_o plain_a letter_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v christ_n be_v neither_o a_o door_n rock_n nor_o vine_n as_o he_o can_v that_o he_o be_v all_o three_o or_o that_o all_o christian_n be_v not_o turn_v into_o christ_n natural_a body_n when_o it_o be_v say_v ephes._n 5._o 20._o we_o be_v member_n of_o his_o body_n this_o he_o do_v to_o show_v that_o the_o phrase_n eat_v the_o flesh_n and_o this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v not_o of_o themselves_o sufficient_a to_o enforce_v we_o to_o take_v they_o in_o a_o proper_a sense_n since_o it_o be_v no_o more_o plain_o say_v except_o you_o eat_v the_o flesh_n etc._n etc._n and_o this_o be_v my_o body_n than_o it_o be_v say_v i_o be_o the_o door_n the_o vine_n etc._n etc._n now_o what_o course_n do_v our_o author_n take_v to_o assoil_v this_o let_v we_o see_v say_v he_o whether_o the_o parity_n betwixt_o i_o be_o the_o door_n the_o vine_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o bread_n be_v my_o flesh_n and_o this_o be_v my_o body_n without_o ever_o explain_v a_o syllable_n to_o the_o contrary_n here_o he_o be_v a_o little_a too_o forward_o for_o he_o be_v to_o remember_v that_o the_o thing_n require_v be_v to_o give_v as_o plain_a scripture_n to_o prove_v that_o christ_n be_v neither_o a_o door_n nor_o vine_n etc._n etc._n as_o there_o be_v for_o it_o he_o know_v who_o say_v it_o i_o will_v prove_v the_o catholic_n doctrine_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o i_o defy_v the_o world_n to_o prove_v the_o contrary_n cath._n answ._n to_o the_o seeker_n pag._n 1._o and_o that_o declare_v again_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o bring_v one_o text_n out_o of_o the_o whole_a bible_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o the_o sacrament_n cath._n letter_n pag._n 24._o if_o now_o he_o so_o expect_v than_o it_o may_v be_v so_o expect_v from_o he_o that_o he_o shall_v prove_v the_o negative_a and_o that_o by_o as_o plain_a a_o text_n he_o shall_v show_v christ_n be_v not_o a_o door_n or_o vine_n as_o we_o can_v show_v that_o he_o be_v i_o must_v confess_v i_o put_v he_o upon_o a_o ridiculous_a task_n but_o who_o can_v help_v it_o it_o be_v in_o his_o own_o way_n but_o to_o leave_v this_o trifle_n let_v we_o return_v to_o see_v his_o parity_n though_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v much_o better_v ourselves_o as_o for_o the_o door_n he_o say_v the_o text_n tell_v we_o it_o be_v a_o parable_n joh._n 10._o 6._o this_o parable_n speak_v jesus_n wherefore_o if_o the_o protestant_a answerer_n will_v be_v so_o kind_a as_o to_o produce_v plain_a scripture_n for_o this_o of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v a_o figure_n as_o i_o have_v do_v for_o the_o door_n be_v be_v a_o parable_n he_o will_v certain_o gain_v a_o proselyte_n of_o i_o as_o for_o gain_v he_o a_o proselyte_n by_o plain_a scripture_n i_o have_v reason_n to_o despair_v who_o declare_v beforehand_o that_o though_o the_o scripture_n be_v never_o so_o plain_a he_o will_v yet_o submit_v to_o thy_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n pag._n 4._o but_o where_o be_v this_o plain_a scripture_n for_o the_o door_n be_v be_v a_o parable_n he_o point_v to_o the_o verse_n but_o what_o be_v the_o parable_n he_o speak_v it_o be_v in_o the_o verse_n forego_v about_o a_o door_n i_o grant_v but_o not_o of_o christ_n be_v the_o door_n for_o that_o follow_v after_o ver._n 7._o then_o say_v jesus_n unto_o they_o again_o very_o very_o i_o be_o the_o door_n so_o that_o if_o he_o keep_v to_o his_o own_o way_n without_o explain_v a_o syllable_n he_o be_v where_o he_o be_v and_o christ_n may_v be_v as_o proper_o a_o door_n as_o we_o may_v proper_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ._n he_o go_v on_o in_o like_a manner_n of_o the_o vine_n christ_n say_v joh._n 15._o 1._o i_o be_o the_o true_a vine_n and_o my_o father_n be_v the_o husbandman_n as_o mat._n 20._o 1._o when_o he_o liken_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n to_o a_o housholder_n and_o so_o go_v on_o explain_v the_o same_o ver_fw-la 4._o as_o the_o branch_n can_v etc._n etc._n which_o if_o you_o read_v the_o chapter_n you_o will_v find_v to_o be_v more_o plain_a i_o perceive_v he_o be_v very_o serious_a and_o i_o be_o of_o his_o mind_n if_o the_o seeker_n read_v on_o he_o will_v find_v it_o plain_a that_o christ_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o vine_n and_o so_o say_v i_o if_o he_o read_v joh._n 6._o he_o will_v find_v it_o as_o plain_a that_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o proper_o to_o be_v understand_v but_o if_o word_n will_v oblige_v we_o without_o attend_v the_o sense_n and_o we_o must_v take_v they_o as_o we_o find_v they_o without_o explain_v a_o syllable_n than_o i_o say_v still_o it_o be_v as_o plain_o say_v i_o be_o the_o true_a vine_n as_o my_o flesh_n be_v meat_n indeed_o and_o according_a to_o our_o author_n way_n of_o exposition_n this_o can_v be_v no_o parable_n for_o say_v he_o you_o will_v find_v in_o all_o case_n christ_n speak_v not_o by_o parable_n without_o tell_v they_o it_o be_v so_o pag._n 12._o but_o here_o it_o be_v not_o so_o say_v for_o as_o before_o so_o after_o the_o word_n v_o 4._o as_o the_o branch_n etc._n etc._n he_o say_v v_o 5._o i_o be_o the_o vine_n he_o go_v on_o in_o like_a manner_n of_o the_o rcck_n that_o he_o be_v the_o cornerstone_n upon_o which_o the_o foundation_n be_v lay_v etc._n etc._n but_o how_o do_v he_o prove_v christ_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o rock_n according_a to_o his_o own_o way_n because_o say_v he_o he_o be_v a_o cornerstone_n and_o a_o foundation_n which_o be_v just_a as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v ask_v how_o he_o will_v prove_v without_o explain_v a_o syllable_n christ_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o cornerstone_n or_o a_o foundation_n and_o he_o shall_v say_v because_o he_o be_v a_o rock_n but_o what_o say_v he_o to_o the_o last_o instance_n to_o prove_v as_o plain_o christian_n be_v not_o turn_v into_o christ_n natural_a body_n when_o it_o be_v say_v we_o be_v member_n of_o his_o body_n ephes._n 5._o 20_o to_o this_o a_o answer_n be_v to_o be_v expect_v well_o after_o all_o his_o wind_n and_o turn_n his_o parity_n and_o without_o explaining_n and_o his_o read_n and_o his_o in_o like_a manner_n and_o his_o rule_n for_o understand_a parable_n the_o word_n be_v as_o plain_a and_o express_v that_o christ_n be_v a_o door_n a_o vine_n a_o rock_n and_o we_o be_v member_n of_o christ_n body_n as_o they_o be_v that_o we_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n and_o if_o one_o be_v proper_o to_o be_v understand_v there_o be_v as_o much_o reason_n from_o the_o mere_a word_n for_o the_o like_a understanding_n the_o other_o after_o this_o digression_n our_o author_n undertake_v the_o last_o argument_n of_o the_o protestant_a answerer_n viz._n arg._n 3._o here_o be_v nothing_o of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o rather_o the_o contrary_a for_o if_o the_o word_n be_v literal_o to_o be_v understand_v than_o they_o will_v rather_o infer_v the_o conversion_n of_o christ_n flesh_n and_o blood_n into_o bread_n and_o wine_n when_o he_o say_v i_o be_o the_o bread_n of_o life_n v_o 5._o my_o flesh_n be_v meat_n or_o bread_n indeed_o as_o to_o the_o first_o which_o be_v the_o conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o chief_a thing_n propose_v to_o he_o he_o have_v silent_o past_o it_o over_o perhaps_o he_o see_v here_o also_o no_o necessity_n of_o define_v or_o prove_v it_o to_o one_o that_o believe_v it_o not_o but_o to_o make_v up_o
this_o defect_n he_o give_v his_o adversary_n a_o grave_n reprimend_v that_o when_o he_o have_v just_a before_o say_v that_o these_o word_n have_v no_o special_a reference_n to_o the_o sacrament_n he_o shall_v now_o so_o apply_v they_o by_o a_o odd_a way_n of_o shufflng_n and_o why_o do_v he_o not_o as_o sharp_o admonish_v he_o for_o offer_v to_o show_v that_o the_o word_n may_v infer_v the_o conversion_n of_o christ_n flesh_n into_o bread_n for_o both_o alike_o belong_v to_o he_o our_o author_n it_o seem_v apprehend_v not_o all_o this_o be_v argumentum_fw-la ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la but_o how_o do_v he_o clear_v the_o point_n and_o show_v they_o infer_v no_o such_o conversion_n first_o he_o say_v for_o proof_n whereof_o that_o christ_n flesh_n be_v not_o turn_v into_o bread_n let_v we_o go_v to_o the_o word_n of_o conversion_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o methinks_v it_o will_v have_v better_o become_v he_o to_o have_v first_o prove_v the_o conversion_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o flesh_n from_o these_o word_n as_o for_o st._n john_n he_o grant_v that_o have_v the_o word_n be_v my_o flesh_n be_v bread_n indeed_o as_o his_o adversary_n will_v fain_o have_v they_o than_o he_o will_v have_v something_o on_o his_o side_n but_o if_o that_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o it_o and_o the_o word_n bread_n and_o meat_n be_v use_v by_o our_o saviour_n promiscuous_o then_o it_o be_v so_o far_o acknowledge_v and_o for_o that_o i_o shall_v refer_v our_o author_n to_o v_o 26_o 27._o but_o he_o will_v not_o allow_v v_o 48._o to_o look_v that_o way_n nor_o indeed_o will_v i._o but_o yet_o they_o will_v as_o soon_o prove_v christ_n turn_v into_o bread_n as_o the_o word_n the_o bread_n that_o i_o will_v give_v be_v my_o flesh_n will_v prove_v the_o bread_n turn_v into_o his_o flesh_n which_o they_o so_o little_o do_v that_o they_o rather_o will_v imply_v the_o contrary_a if_o understand_v literal_o as_o i_o have_v show_v pag._n 8_o but_o he_o conclude_v rather_o than_o differ_v i_o will_v join_v in_o opinion_n with_o the_o protestant_a answerer_n and_o these_o other_o divine_n and_o with_o he_o and_o they_o submit_v to_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n but_o where_o be_v this_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o protestant_a answerer_n sure_o our_o author_n be_v like_o he_o in_o aristotle_n that_o where_o ever_o he_o go_v fancy_v he_o see_v himself_o but_o what_o need_n be_v there_o to_o go_v to_o the_o church_n in_o this_o case_n for_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v think_v sense_n and_o reason_n sufficient_a to_o instruct_v man_n whether_o those_o word_n will_v prove_v that_o christ_n be_v turn_v into_o bread_n and_o we_o think_v sense_n and_o reason_n as_o sufficient_a to_o inform_v they_o whether_o the_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n will_v prove_v that_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o christ_n flesh._n i_o now_o think_v this_o matter_n have_v be_v at_o a_o end_n when_o the_o protestant_a answerer_n pass_v from_o this_o argument_n to_o the_o second_o text._n but_o our_o author_n have_v not_o yet_o do_v with_o he_o for_o he_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v one_o argument_n yet_o on_o which_o the_o gentleman_n seem_v much_o to_o depend_v pag._n 9_o when_o he_o say_v since_o if_o christ_n be_v not_o but_o where_o he_o entire_o be_v than_o say_v he_o he_o must_v be_v eat_v entire_o etc._n etc._n from_o whence_o he_o conclude_v the_o not_o be_v of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n because_o as_o he_o conceive_v he_o be_v not_o there_o entire_a for_o reason_n not_o scripture_n of_o his_o own_o p._n 14._o bless_v i_o think_v i_o where_o be_o i_o now_o in_o the_o land_n of_o oberon_n what_o shall_v i_o say_v he_o quote_v pag._n 9_o i_o hasty_o turn_v thither_o and_o there_o i_o be_v satisfy_v my_o memory_n have_v not_o yet_o forsake_v i_o the_o case_n be_v thus_o the_o answerer_n as_o be_v before_o observe_v to_o show_v the_o absurdity_n of_o our_o author_n appeal_n to_o the_o mere_a letter_n put_v several_a query_n to_o he_o out_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o he_o desire_v he_o to_o resolve_v in_o his_o own_o way_n without_o go_v to_o figure_n the_o last_o of_o which_o be_v this_o how_o he_o can_v literal_o interpret_v ver_fw-la 57_o he_o that_o eat_v i_o that_o hold_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v contain_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n together_o with_o the_o soul_n and_o divinity_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ._n since_o if_o christ_n be_v not_o but_o where_o he_o entire_o be_v than_o he_o must_v be_v eat_v entire_o this_o question_n among_o other_o be_v there_o drop_v by_o our_o author_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v apparent_a for_o he_o must_v either_o have_v acknowledge_v that_o the_o word_n he_o that_o eat_v i_o must_v be_v understand_v figurative_o and_o spiritual_o and_o not_o corporal_o or_o else_o that_o the_o soul_n and_o divinity_n of_o christ_n must_v be_v eat_v with_o his_o body_n or_o that_o the_o soul_n and_o divinity_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o the_o eucharist_n with_o his_o body_n the_o case_n i_o confess_v be_v hard_o to_o one_o that_o have_v somewhat_o else_o to_o respect_v than_o truth_n and_o therefore_o it_o become_v he_o to_o be_v silent_a but_o why_o he_o shall_v now_o bring_v it_o on_o the_o stage_n under_o another_o guise_n i_o can_v imagine_v when_o thus_o to_o resume_v it_o and_o pervert_v it_o must_v as_o much_o expose_v his_o insincerity_n as_o the_o omission_n of_o it_o before_o do_v his_o inability_n to_o answer_v it_o the_o reader_n will_v see_v that_o the_o argument_n and_o the_o conclusion_n be_v none_o of_o the_o answerer_n for_o that_o proposition_n where_o ever_o christ_n be_v there_o he_o entire_o be_v be_v a_o principle_n of_o our_o author_n and_o which_o be_v there_o make_v use_n of_o against_o he_o that_o profess_v to_o believe_v with_o the_o same_o faith_n he_o believe_v a_o god_n that_o in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v true_o and_o substantial_o contain_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n together_o with_o the_o soul_n and_o divinity_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n cath._n answ._n to_o seeker_n p._n 4._o and_o where_o our_o author_n find_v the_o conclusion_n i_o know_v not_o for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o protestant_a answer_n like_o to_o this_o that_o from_o thence_o conclude_v the_o not_o be_v of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n because_o he_o be_v not_o there_o entire_a however_o it_o may_v not_o be_v amiss_o to_o see_v how_o our_o author_n relieve_v himself_o say_v he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v and_o grant_v that_o christ_n be_v not_o but_o where_o he_o be_v entire_a and_o whether_o christ_n who_o be_v perfect_a god_n may_v not_o be_v entire_a in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o in_o many_o place_n at_o one_o and_o the_o same_o time_n be_v the_o query_n which_o if_o full_o resolve_v will_v overthr●w_v all_o his_o reason_a ware_n beside_o well_o how_o will_v he_o prove_v christ_n entire_o in_o the_o sacrament_n that_o be_v the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n with_o the_o soul_n and_o divinity_n that_o be_v forget_v before_o and_o so_o be_v not_o to_o be_v remember_v but_o if_o it_o may_v be_v accept_v for_o a_o full_a and_o entire_a answer_n he_o will_v prove_v his_o body_n may_v be_v entire_a in_o many_o place_n at_o one_o and_o the_o same_o time_n what_o he_o say_v of_o that_o belong_v to_o another_o place_n and_o shall_v there_o be_v consider_v p._n 29._o but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o his_o soul_n and_o divinity_n and_o to_o the_o literal_a sense_n of_o he_o that_o eat_v i_o and_o the_o argument_n the_o answerer_n press_v upon_o he_o he_o will_v be_v able_a to_o answer_v it_o when_o he_o can_v prove_v his_o proposition_n that_o christ_n be_v not_o but_o where_o he_o be_v entire_a for_o than_o his_o body_n must_v be_v omnipresent_v as_o well_o as_o his_o divinity_n which_o after_o all_o the_o may_v be_v his_o and_o his_o attempt_n to_o prove_v it_o possible_a for_o christ_n body_n to_o be_v in_o many_o place_n at_o one_o and_o the_o same_o time_n i_o suppose_v he_o will_v have_v no_o allowance_n to_o publish_v if_o he_o shall_v have_v the_o imprudence_n to_o maintain_v sect_n iii_o we_o be_v at_o length_n come_v to_o his_o second_o text_n to_o prove_v his_o real_a presence_n 3_o viz._n this_o be_v my_o body_n here_o the_o protestant_a answerer_n show_v how_o absurd_a the_o direction_n of_o the_o seeker_n be_v that_o his_o answerer_n shall_v produce_v their_o text_n without_o trouble_v themselves_o to_o tell_v the_o meaning_n on_o it_o because_o he_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n can_v never_o be_v the_o literal_a meaning_n of_o those_o word_n as_o for_o example_n say_v he_o where_o be_v there_o one_o word_n that_o the_o this_o whatever_n it_o mean_v be_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n