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it_o that_o authority_n which_o christ_n give_v it_o and_o that_o he_o believe_v his_o church_n to_o be_v above_o the_o scripture_n and_o profane_o allow_v to_o her_o a_o uncontrollable_a authority_n of_o be_v judge_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n for_o though_o there_o may_v be_v some_o truth_n in_o such_o consequence_n as_o these_o from_o their_o doctrine_n yet_o they_o be_v never_o charge_v upon_o they_o by_o we_o as_o their_o principle_n or_o faith_n which_o be_v the_o chief_a art_n he_o use_v in_o draw_v up_o these_o misrepresentation_n xv._n of_o tradition_n we_o charge_v they_o with_o make_v some_o unwritten_a tradition_n of_o equal_a authority_n with_o the_o scripture_n and_o believe_v they_o with_o a_o divine_a faith_n this_o we_o say_v derogate_v from_o the_o perfection_n of_o the_o scripture_n or_o the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n for_o if_o our_o rule_n be_v partly_o the_o write_v partly_o the_o unwritten_a word_n then_o the_o scripture_n or_o write_v word_n be_v but_o part_n 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receive_v p._n 9_o ed._n 1._o to_o this_o the_o reflect_a answer_n that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v receive_v here_o and_o all_o the_o catholic_n world_n over_o as_o to_o all_o its_o definition_n of_o faith_n p._n 5._o by_o which_o 5._o i_o suppose_v he_o mean_v that_o all_o english_a catholic_n do_v own_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o take_v their_o rule_n of_o faith_n from_o it_o but_o this_o be_v not_o what_o the_o answerer_n mean_v by_o that_o question_n whether_o english_a catholic_n single_o for_o themselves_o and_o in_o their_o private_a capacity_n own_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n but_o by_o what_o public_a act_n of_o church_n or_o state_n it_o have_v be_v receive_v in_o england_n as_o it_o have_v be_v in_o other_o catholic_n country_n the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v no_o representative_n in_o that_o council_n nor_o do_v by_o any_o after_o act_n own_o its_o authority_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v no_o authentic_a and_o obligatory_a rule_n here_o but_o allow_v the_o authority_n of_o this_o rule_n to_o determine_v what_o be_v popery_n and_o what_o not_o which_o the_o answerer_n allow_v reasonable_a enough_o consider_v that_o its_o definition_n of_o faith_n be_v receive_v all_o the_o catholic_n world_n over_o as_o the_o reflecter_n say_v the_o great_a difficulty_n be_v about_o the_o interpretation_n of_o this_o rule_n for_o not_o only_o we_o heretic_n interpret_v this_o council_n a_o little_a different_o from_o our_o author_n but_o catholic_n doctor_n themselves_o can_v agree_v about_o it_o now_o when_o other_o good_a catholic_n differ_v from_o he_o in_o explain_v the_o definition_n and_o decree_n of_o this_o council_n why_o must_v his_o sense_n and_o not_o they_o pass_v for_o the_o character_n of_o a_o papist_n pope_n pius_n iv._o do_v strict_o forbid_v any_o private_a man_n to_o interpret_v the_o council_n according_a to_o his_o own_o private_a sense_n and_o opinion_n but_o if_o any_o dispute_v happen_v about_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o their_o definition_n and_o decree_n he_o reserve_v the_o decision_n of_o it_o to_o the_o apostolic_a see_n and_o a_o very_a wise_a decree_n it_o be_v consider_v that_o many_o of_o their_o definition_n be_v pen_v in_o loose_a and_o ambiguous_a word_n on_o purpose_n to_o compose_v the_o dispute_n and_o difference_n of_o their_o divine_n who_o be_v many_o time_n very_o troublesome_a to_o the_o council_n that_o each_o party_n may_v think_v their_o own_o sense_n favour_v but_o then_o consider_v what_o ill_a consequence_n this_o may_v be_v of_o to_o suffer_v they_o to_o dispute_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n and_o wrest_v it_o to_o countenance_v their_o private_a opinion_n which_o will_v rather_o inflame_v than_o compose_v these_o dispute_n a_o fresh_a example_n of_o which_o they_o have_v in_o the_o dispute_n between_o catharinus_n and_o soto_n while_o the_o council_n be_v sit_v the_o pope_n very_o prudent_o forbid_v this_o that_o if_o they_o will_v still_o wrangle_v among_o themselves_o yet_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n may_v not_o be_v concern_v in_o it_o but_o now_o if_o their_o doctor_n do_v differ_v still_o about_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n and_o affix_v their_o private_a opinion_n on_o it_o and_o pope_n think_v fit_a rather_o to_o connive_v at_o these_o difference_n than_o to_o undertake_v to_o determine_v they_o why_o must_v any_o one_o of_o these_o different_a opinion_n be_v so_o make_v the_o character_n of_o a_o papist_n as_o to_o exclude_v the_o other_o if_o some_o and_o those_o of_o great_a note_n and_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n and_o not_o inferior_a in_o number_n to_o say_v no_o more_o be_v for_o the_o depose_n doctrine_n and_o other_o against_o it_o why_o must_v those_o only_o be_v think_v papist_n who_o deny_v this_o depose_n power_n and_o not_o those_o also_o who_o assert_v it_o whether_o it_o be_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n or_o not_o be_v a_o dispute_n between_o they_o and_o though_o our_o author_n deny_v that_o it_o be_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o that_o a_o papist_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o believe_v it_o yet_o those_o who_o be_v for_o the_o depose_n power_n assert_v that_o it_o be_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o with_o much_o great_a reason_n than_o he_o deny_v it_o and_o what_o authority_n have_v he_o to_o decide_v this_o dispute_n and_o who_o give_v he_o this_o authority_n do_v not_o his_o representation_n of_o a_o papist_n in_o this_o point_n depend_v upon_o his_o own_o private_a sense_n and_o opinion_n no_o he_o say_v 6._o he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o fault_n of_o interpret_n the_o council_n of_o trent_n in_o his_o own_o sense_n that_o he_o have_v only_o deliver_v it_o as_o it_o be_v interpret_v to_o he_o and_o to_o all_o their_o church_n in_o the_o catechism_n ad_fw-la parochos_fw-la compose_v and_o set_v forth_o by_o the_o order_n of_o the_o council_n and_o pius_n v._o for_o the_o instruction_n of_o the_o faithful_a in_o their_o christian_a duty_n touch_v faith_n and_o good_a manner_n in_o conformity_n to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n and_o be_v he_o sure_a that_o all_o his_o representation_n be_v conformable_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o this_o catechism_n may_v he_o not_o play_v trick_n with_o the_o catechism_n and_o expound_v that_o by_o a_o private_a spirit_n as_o well_o as_o the_o council_n well_o but_o he_o appeal_v in_o his_o conclusion_n to_o veron_n '_o s_o rule_n of_o faith_n and_o what_o of_o that_o how_o come_v veron_n rule_n to_o be_v so_o authentic_a as_o to_o justify_v any_o interpretation_n which_o agree_v with_o it_o why_o do_v not_o our_o author_n appeal_v to_o his_o own_o character_n which_o may_v have_v as_o much_o authority_n for_o aught_o i_o know_v as_o veron_n rule_n but_o beside_o veron_n he_o appeal_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o condom_n who_o draw_v up_o a_o like_a character_n in_o paris_n of_o the_o belief_n of_o a_o papist_n and_o what_o be_v the_o authority_n of_o this_o bishop_n character_n for_o bishop_n have_v no_o more_o authority_n to_o expound_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o be_v entire_o reserve_v to_o the_o apostolic_a see_n than_o private_a doctor_n yes_o the_o bishop_n of_o condom_n book_n have_v all_o requisite_a authority_n because_o the_o second_o edition_n be_v publish_v with_o several_a distinct_a attestation_n of_o many_o bishop_n and_o cardinal_n 7._o and_o of_o the_o present_a pope_n himself_o wherein_o they_o at_o large_a approve_v the_o doctrine_n contain_v in_o that_o treatise_n for_o the_o faith_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o conform_v to_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n i_o shall_v take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v as_o the_o reflecter_n say_v but_o what_o then_o have_v not_o cardinal_n bellarmin_n controversy_n as_o great_a a_o attestation_n as_o the_o bishop_n of_o condom_n exposition_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n do_v he_o not_o dedicate_v they_o to_o pope_n sixtus_n v._o and_o that_o with_o the_o pope_n leave_n and_o good_a like_n te_fw-la annuente_fw-la as_o he_o himself_o say_v and_o how_o much_o inferior_a be_v this_o to_o a_o testimonial_a under_o the_o pope_n hand_n and_o why_o then_o be_v not_o bellarmin_n controversy_n as_o authentic_a a_o rule_n for_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o catholic_n faith_n as_o the_o bishop_n of_o condom_n but_o melchior_n canus_n to_o who_o the_o reflecter_n refer_v we_o will_v have_v teach_v he_o that_o the_o pope_n private_a approbation_n be_v as_o little_a worth_n as_o any_o other_o bishop_n 5._o that_o the_o name_n of_o the_o apostolic_a see_v do_v not_o signify_v the_o pope_n in_o his_o personal_a capacity_n but_o act_v as_o it_o become_v the_o chair_n that_o be_v not_o give_v his_o own_o private_a sense_n but_o proceed_v in_o council_n with_o the_o advice_n of_o good_a and_o learned_a men._n and_o therefore_o that_o be_v not_o to_o be_v account_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o apostolic_a see_v which_o be_v give_v only_o by_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n private_o and_o inconsiderate_o or_o with_o the_o adulce_n only_o of_o some_o few_o of_o his_o own_o mind_n but_o what_o he_o determine_v upon_o a_o due_a examination_n of_o the_o thing_n by_o the_o adviâ—e_n and_o counsel_n of_o many_o wise_a men._n and_o therefore_o i_o doubt_v notwithstanding_o the_o present_a pope_n approbation_n he_o be_v a_o little_a out_o when_o he_o call_v this_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostolic_a see_n but_o the_o answerer_n do_v not_o only_o charge_v he_o in_o general_n with_o interpret_n the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o his_o own_o private_a sense_n and_o opinion_n but_o give_v some_o particular_a instance_n of_o it_o and_o i_o must_v now_o consider_v how_o the_o reflecter_n take_v off_o this_o charge_n 1._o as_o to_o invocation_n of_o saint_n 7._o
argument_n that_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v it_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n as_o he_o suggest_v but_o only_o that_o they_o want_v power_n to_o do_v it_o prince_n will_v not_o be_v depose_v now_o nor_o suffer_v those_o to_o be_v censure_v who_o deny_v the_o depose_v power_n but_o shall_v the_o bless_a hildebrandtime_n return_v again_o we_o shall_v quick_o see_v whether_o the_o depose_v power_n be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n or_o not_o what_o i_o have_v now_o discourse_v will_v abundant_o justify_v a_o argument_n which_o i_o find_v our_o reflecter_n much_o grieve_v at_o the_o answerer_n in_o his_o introduction_n p._n 14._o lay_v two_o passage_n together_o which_o he_o think_v will_v oblige_v they_o to_o own_o the_o depose_n power_n for_o in_o the_o papist_n misrepresent_v p._n 42_o the_o author_n say_v the_o order_n of_o the_o supreme_a pastor_n be_v to_o be_v obey_v whether_o he_o be_v infallible_a or_o not_o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o confess_v that_o pope_n have_v own_v the_o depose_n doctrine_n and_o act_v according_a to_o it_o and_o other_o be_v bind_v to_o obey_v their_o order_n whether_o infallible_a or_o not_o and_o consequent_o by_o the_o doctrine_n of_o their_o church_n to_o act_v when_o the_o pope_n shall_v require_v it_o according_a to_o the_o depose_n power_n to_o this_o the_o reflect_a answer_n that_o he_o only_o make_v a_o comparison_n between_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a power_n 16._o taht_v as_o in_o the_o civil_a government_n the_o sentence_n of_o the_o supreme_a judge_n or_o high_a tribunal_n be_v to_o be_v obey_v though_o there_o be_v no_o assurance_n of_o infallibility_n or_o divine_a protection_n from_o error_n or_o mistake_n so_o be_v he_o teach_v shall_v be_v do_v to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o supreme_a pastor_n whether_o he_o be_v infallible_a or_o not_o now_o he_o say_v it_o be_v as_o unjust_a from_o hence_o to_o infer_v that_o all_o the_o order_n of_o the_o pope_n must_v be_v obey_v as_o it_o will_v be_v to_o say_v that_o subject_n must_v obey_v their_o prince_n in_o every_o thing_n they_o command_v whether_o it_o be_v good_a or_o bad_a and_o i_o acknowledge_v his_o answer_n to_o be_v good_a if_o he_o will_v grant_v the_o depose_n decree_n to_o command_v a_o sin_n which_o he_o have_v never_o do_v yet_o and_o when_o he_o do_v it_o i_o will_v desire_v he_o to_o consider_v how_o to_o reconcile_v himself_o to_o his_o two_o friend_n bellarmine_n and_o canus_n who_o assert_v that_o pope_n and_o general_a council_n can_v make_v no_o sinful_a decree_n which_o shall_v relate_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n 2_o lie_n let_v we_o now_o consider_v what_o fault_n the_o reflecter_n find_v with_o the_o answerers_n way_n of_o proceed_v and_o they_o be_v reduce_v to_o four_o head_n 1_o sy_n he_o say_v that_o in_o some_o point_v the_o answerer_n own_v the_o doctrine_n which_o he_o have_v represent_v to_o be_v the_o faith_n of_o a_o roman-catholick_n to_o be_v the_o establish_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o in_o part_n that_o of_o the_o power_n of_o priestly_a absolution_n confession_n of_o due_a veneration_n to_o the_o relic_n of_o saint_n of_o merit_n of_o satisfaction_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o general_a council_n now_o here_o our_o reflect_a return_n to_o his_o old_a trade_n of_o misrepresent_v again_o for_o every_o one_o who_o will_v believe_v his_o own_o eye_n may_v soon_o satisfy_v himself_o that_o the_o answerer_n in_o these_o doctrine_n own_v nothing_o which_o be_v peculiar_a to_o the_o faith_n of_o a_o papist_n as_o distinguish_v from_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o all_o christian_n he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v that_o because_o protestant_n own_v that_o christ_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v therefore_o they_o in_o part_n own_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o christ_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v by_o image_n this_o be_v the_o very_a case_n here_o the_o answerer_n grant_v that_o christ_n give_v to_o the_o bishop_n and_o priest_n of_o the_o catholick-church_n authority_n to_o absolve_v any_o true_o penitent_a sinner_n from_o his_o sin_n 60._o and_o that_o such_o absolution_n be_v ratify_v in_o heaven_n therefore_o in_o part_n he_o own_v the_o popish_a doctrine_n of_o absolution_n which_o be_v a_o judicial_a and_o praetorian_a authority_n to_o forgive_v sin_n though_o we_o think_v that_o to_o absolve_v as_o a_o minister_n and_o as_o a_o judge_n be_v two_o very_a different_a thing_n as_o different_a as_o the_o king_n grant_v a_o pardon_n and_o the_o chancellor_n seal_v it_o which_o be_v a_o public_a and_o authentic_a declaration_n of_o the_o thing_n the_o answerer_n own_v the_o ancient_a practice_n of_o canonical_a confession_n 62._o as_o part_v of_o the_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n for_o public_a offence_n that_o be_v that_o those_o who_o have_v be_v guilty_a of_o any_o public_a and_o scandalous_a sin_n be_v not_o reconcile_v tooth_n church_n without_o make_v as_o public_a a_o confession_n and_o give_v public_a testimony_n of_o their_o sorrow_n and_o repentance_n therefore_o he_o in_o part_n own_v the_o auricular_a confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n there_o be_v little_a difference_n it_o seem_v between_o confess_v our_o sin_n to_o the_o whole_a congregation_n and_o in_o the_o ear_n of_o a_o priest_n he_o own_v the_o use_n of_o voluntary_a confession_n for_o the_o ease_n and_o satisfaction_n of_o the_o perplex_a mind_n of_o doubt_v or_o deject_a penitent_n and_o therefore_o he_o in_o part_n own_v the_o sacramental_a confession_n as_o necessary_a to_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n before_o god_n the_o answerer_n allow_v 40._o a_o due_a veneration_n to_o the_o body_n of_o saint_n and_o martyr_n i._n e._n a_o religious_a decency_n to_o be_v observe_v towards_o they_o which_o lie_v in_o avoid_v any_o thing_n like_o contempt_n or_o dishonour_n to_o they_o and_o use_v all_o such_o testimony_n of_o respect_n and_o decency_n which_o become_v the_o remain_v of_o excellent_a person_n and_o therefore_o in_o part_n he_o agree_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o relic_n just_a as_o much_o as_o a_o decent_a respect_n be_v a_o part_n of_o religious_a worship_n the_o answerer_n grant_v 55._o the_o necessity_n of_o good_a work_n in_o order_n to_o the_o reward_n of_o another_o life_n and_o if_o he_o will_v call_v this_o merit_n in_o which_o large_a sense_n the_o father_n sometime_o use_v that_o word_n we_o will_v not_o dispute_v with_o he_o about_o it_o but_o be_v this_o to_o own_o the_o popish_a doctrine_n of_o merit_n that_o the_o good_a work_n of_o justify_v person_n be_v true_o meritorious_a of_o the_o increase_n of_o grace_n and_o eternal_a life_n the_o answerer_n distinguish_v between_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o church_n before_o absolution_n 67._o according_a to_o the_o discipline_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n which_o do_v not_o use_v to_o reconcile_v public_a penitent_n till_o by_o a_o long_a course_n of_o penance_n and_o mortification_n they_o have_v give_v sufficient_a testimony_n of_o the_o sincerity_n of_o their_o repentance_n and_o have_v make_v some_o satisfaction_n for_o that_o scandal_n they_o have_v give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o justice_n of_o god_n for_o some_o part_n of_o the_o punishment_n to_o sin_n which_o be_v unremit_v the_o first_o we_o own_v as_o a_o very_a useful_a part_n of_o church_n discipline_n and_o wish_v the_o restore_n of_o it_o but_o the_o second_o we_o utter_o disow_v for_o there_o be_v no_o other_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o justice_n of_o god_n for_o sin_n but_o the_o meritorious_a death_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n whereas_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n take_v no_o notice_n of_o satisfaction_n in_o the_o first_o sense_n but_o have_v change_v the_o ancient_a discipline_n of_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o church_n into_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o justice_n of_o god_n for_o sin_n the_o answerer_n grant_v that_o true_o penitential_a work_n be_v please_v to_o god_n so_o as_o to_o avert_v his_o displeasure_n but_o deny_v the_o popish_a doctrine_n of_o satisfaction_n that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o compensation_n by_o way_n of_o equivalency_n between_o what_o we_o suffer_v and_o what_o we_o deserve_v and_o be_v this_o in_o part_n to_o own_o his_o doctrine_n of_o satisfaction_n the_o answerer_n own_v the_o right_a and_o necessity_n of_o general_n council_n upon_o great_a occasion_n if_o they_o be_v true_o so_o which_o have_v be_v 91._o and_o may_v be_v of_o great_a use_n to_o the_o christian_a world_n for_o settle_v the_o faith_n heal_v the_o breach_n of_o christendom_n and_o reform_v abuse_n and_o that_o the_o decree_n of_o such_o council_n ought_v to_o be_v submit_v to_o where_o they_o proceed_v upon_o certain_a ground_n of_o faith_n and_o not_o upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n but_o this_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n concern_v council_n
which_o own_v the_o authority_n of_o all_o council_n call_v by_o the_o pope_n and_o confirm_v by_o he_o though_o as_o we_o say_v neither_o free_a nor_o general_n and_o ascribe_v a_o unerring_a infallibility_n to_o they_o and_o so_o put_v a_o end_n to_o all_o inquiry_n into_o the_o ground_n of_o their_o faith_n we_o be_v sorry_a we_o be_v at_o such_o a_o distance_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o there_o be_v few_o thing_n beside_o the_o common_a principle_n of_o christianity_n wherein_o we_o can_v own_v any_o part_n of_o their_o doctrine_n and_o if_o we_o own_v no_o more_o than_o the_o answerer_n have_v do_v i_o think_v the_o reflecter_n have_v no_o great_a reason_n to_o glory_n in_o it_o 2_o lie_v the_o reflect_a charge_n the_o answerer_n with_o appeal_n from_o the_o definition_n of_o their_o council_n and_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n to_o some_o expression_n find_v in_o old_a mass-book_n ritual_n etc._n etc._n what_o this_o &c._n &c._n mean_n 11._o i_o can_v tell_v for_o i_o find_v but_o one_o instance_n of_o this_o in_o the_o whole_a answer_n relate_v to_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n that_o famous_a hymn_n o_o felix_fw-la puerpera_fw-la nostra_fw-la pians_fw-la scelera_fw-la jure_fw-la matris_fw-la impera_fw-la redemptori_fw-la o_o happy_a mother_n 35._o who_o do_v expiate_v our_o sin_n by_o the_o right_n of_o a_o mother_n command_v our_o redeemer_n be_v find_v in_o the_o old_a paris_n missal_n which_o the_o answerer_n himself_o have_v see_v and_o as_o balinghem_n a_o jesuit_n say_v in_o the_o missal_n of_o tournay_n liege_n amiens_n artois_n and_o the_o old-roman_a now_o i_o confess_v i_o shall_v not_o have_v think_v it_o so_o great_a a_o fault_n to_o have_v take_v the_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n from_o their_o missal_n be_v they_o never_o so_o old_a for_o their_o missal_n be_v not_o like_o private_a book_n of_o devotion_n but_o be_v the_o allow_v and_o approve_a worship_n of_o their_o church_n as_o our_o liturgy_n be_v and_o therefore_o be_v either_o the_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n at_o present_a or_o once_o be_v so_o and_o if_o it_o be_v damnable_a to_o own_o that_o the_o virgin_n be_v more_o powerful_a than_o her_o son_n or_o can_v command_v he_o which_o seem_v to_o be_v a_o argument_n of_o great_a power_n it_o be_v very_o hard_a to_o charge_v it_o upon_o a_o infallible_a church_n that_o her_o public_a office_n do_v once_o contain_v damnable_a error_n for_o sure_o she_o be_v not_o infallible_a then_o which_o may_v bring_v her_o infallibility_n into_o question_n still_o and_o therefore_o old_a missal_n have_v so_o much_o authority_n still_o that_o nothing_o contain_v in_o they_o aught_o to_o be_v think_v damnable_a and_o yet_o the_o answerer_n do_v not_o appeal_v from_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n to_o old_a mass-book_n for_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v never_o condemn_v this_o hymn_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n of_o it_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n in_o her_o decree_n for_o invocation_n of_o saint_n faith_n nothing_o in_o particular_a of_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o yet_o all_o roman_a catholic_n make_v a_o vast_a difference_n between_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o virgin_n and_o other_o saint_n how_o then_o shall_v we_o learn_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n but_o from_o her_o practice_n from_o her_o public_a office_n and_o hymn_n and_o tho_o since_o heretic_n have_v be_v inquisitive_a into_o these_o matter_n they_o have_v reform_v some_o of_o their_o hymn_n yet_o they_o have_v never_o condemn_v the_o old_a one_o and_o if_o he_o remember_v the_o answerer_n in_o the_o same_o place_n tell_v he_o a_o notable_a story_n whereby_o he_o may_v guess_v at_o the_o sense_n at_o least_o of_o the_o govern_v part_n of_o their_o church_n still_o that_o a_o book_n which_o be_v write_v by_o a_o gentleman_n ten_o year_n since_o to_o bring_v the_o people_n to_o a_o bare_a ora_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n 36._o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v approve_v that_o it_o be_v condemn_v at_o rome_n and_o vehement_o oppose_v by_o the_o jesuit_n in_o france_n and_o a_o whole_a volume_n publish_v against_o it_o 3_o lie_v he_o complain_v that_o the_o answerer_n appeal_v from_o the_o declaration_n of_o their_o council_n and_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n to_o some_o external_n action_n as_o in_o case_n of_o respect_n show_v to_o image_n and_o saint_n upon_o which_o 12._o from_o our_o external_n adoration_n by_o construction_n of_o the_o fact_n viz._n kneel_v bow_v etc._n etc._n you_o be_v willing_a to_o conclude_v we_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n as_o if_o a_o true_a judgement_n can_v be_v make_v of_o these_o action_n without_o respect_n to_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n who_o direct_v they_o and_o of_o the_o person_n that_o do_v they_o the_o paragraph_n in_o the_o answer_n p._n 21._o to_o which_o the_o reflecter_n refer_v we_o be_v but_o a_o short_a one_o and_o if_o he_o have_v think_v fit_a to_o answer_v it_o it_o will_v have_v clear_v this_o point_n he_o say_v to_o worship_n stock_n or_o stone_n for_o god_n as_o far_o as_o we_o charge_v they_o with_o any_o such_o thing_n signify_v to_o give_v to_o image_n make_v of_o wood_n and_o stone_n the_o worship_n due_a only_o to_o god_n and_o so_o by_o construction_n of_o the_o fact_n to_o make_v they_o god_n by_o give_v they_o divine_a worship_n and_o if_o they_o will_v clear_v themselves_o of_o this_o they_o must_v either_o prove_v that_o external_n adoration_n be_v no_o part_n of_o divine_a worship_n notwithstanding_o the_o scripture_n make_v it_o so_o and_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o mankind_n look_v upon_o it_o as_o such_o even_o jew_n turk_n and_o infidel_n or_o that_o their_o external_n adoration_n have_v no_o respect_n to_o the_o image_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n or_o that_o divine_a worship_n be_v due_a to_o the_o be_v represent_v it_o may_v be_v likewise_o give_v to_o the_o image_n and_o how_o then_o can_v the_o gnostic_n be_v condemn_v for_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n which_o bellarmin_n confess_v and_o be_v affirm_v by_o irenaeus_n epiphanius_n st._n austin_n and_o damascen_n wherein_o now_o do_v the_o answerer_n appeal_v from_o the_o declaration_n of_o their_o council_n and_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n to_o external_n action_n do_v the_o council_n forbid_v such_o external_n act_n of_o adoration_n as_o kneel_v bow_v offer_v incense_n &_o c._n to_o be_v pay_v to_o image_n no_o it_o enjoin_v it_o do_v the_o council_n then_o deny_v that_o the_o worship_n which_o be_v pay_v before_o the_o image_n have_v regard_n to_o the_o image_n no_o both_o the_o trent_n council_n and_o catechism_n teach_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n the_o whole_a mystery_n of_o this_o pretend_a appeal_n from_o their_o church_n and_o council_n to_o external_n action_n be_v no_o more_o than_o this_o that_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o give_v such_o worship_n to_o image_n to_o be_v give_v the_o worship_n due_a to_o god_n to_o image_n and_o the_o answerer_n consider_v the_o nature_n of_o those_o external_n act_n of_o adoration_n know_v not_o how_o to_o excuse_v they_o from_o it_o but_o have_v put_v he_o into_o a_o way_n of_o do_v it_o if_o he_o can_v if_o he_o can_v either_o prove_v that_o external_n adoration_n be_v no_o part_n of_o divine_a worship_n or_o that_o they_o do_v not_o give_v this_o external_n worship_n to_o image_n or_o that_o divine_a worship_n be_v due_a to_o the_o be_v represent_v it_o may_v likewise_o be_v give_v to_o the_o image_n then_o he_o will_v grant_v that_o they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o worship_v stock_n and_o stone_n for_o god_n but_o till_o he_o can_v do_v this_o he_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o interpret_v such_o action_n as_o all_o mankind_n beside_o themselves_o interpret_v they_o but_o our_o reflecter_n do_v not_o like_o this_o he_o be_v for_o judge_v of_o action_n by_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n that_o direct_v they_o and_o of_o the_o person_n that_o do_v they_o well_o and_o what_o be_v their_o intention_n in_o it_o be_v it_o not_o to_o worship_n image_n yes_o this_o be_v the_o intention_n and_o the_o express_a declaration_n of_o their_o church_n right_n but_o their_o church_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o break_v the_o second_o commandment_n and_o to_o commit_v idolatry_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o therefore_o you_o ought_v not_o to_o charge_v this_o upon_o they_o very_o true_a nor_o do_v ever_o any_o man_n in_o the_o world_n intend_v to_o commit_v idolatry_n we_o charge_v they_o not_o with_o any_o such_o intention_n but_o if_o they_o worship_v image_n we_o desire_v to_o know_v how_o they_o excuse_v themselves_o from_o break_v the_o second_o commandment_n and_o commit_v idolatry_n whether_o they_o be_v idolater_n or_o not_o let_v god_n judge_n but_o
we_o think_v we_o shall_v be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n if_o we_o do_v it_o and_o that_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o we_o can_v comply_v with_o such_o practice_n i_o will_v only_o desire_v to_o know_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o such_o thing_n as_o external_n and_o visible_a idolatry_n if_o there_o be_v it_o must_v consist_v in_o external_n and_o visible_a action_n for_o we_o can_v never_o know_v what_o man_n intention_n be_v but_o by_o their_o action_n and_o than_o if_o man_n do_v such_o action_n as_o be_v idolatrous_a how_o can_v the_o intention_n excuse_v they_o from_o idolatry_n especial_o no_o intention_n can_v alter_v the_o nature_n of_o action_n which_o be_v determine_v by_o a_o divine_a or_o human_a law_n for_o then_o man_n may_v murder_v or_o commit_v adultery_n or_o steal_v or_o forswear_v themselves_o and_o yet_o avoid_v the_o sin_n and_o guilt_n of_o such_o action_n by_o intend_v to_o do_v no_o evil_a in_o they_o if_o then_o the_o external_n act_v of_o kneel_v or_o bow_v to_o or_o before_o a_o image_n direct_v such_o action_n to_o the_o image_n be_v call_v worship_v of_o they_o and_o be_v forbid_v in_o the_o second_o commandment_n without_o any_o regard_n to_o what_o intention_n man_n have_v in_o do_v so_o we_o put_v no_o other_o interpretation_n upon_o such_o action_n but_o what_o the_o divine_a law_n put_v upon_o they_o and_o if_o they_o will_v venture_v to_o expound_v they_o otherwise_o and_o think_v to_o justify_v themselves_o in_o do_v forbid_a action_n by_o their_o good_a intention_n they_o think_v they_o may_v but_o we_o dare_v not_o as_o for_o what_o he_o say_v that_o these_o action_n such_o as_o bowing_n kneel_v 12._o etc._n etc._n be_v in_o themselves_o indifferent_a and_o capable_a of_o be_v pay_v to_o god_n and_o man_n i_o ready_o grant_v it_o but_o be_v there_o then_o no_o way_n to_o distinguish_v between_o civil_a and_o religious_a worship_n between_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o man_n i_o will_v tell_v he_o one_o infallible_a distinction_n allow_v by_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o mankind_n viz._n the_o worship_n of_o the_o invisible_a inhabitant_n of_o the_o other_o world_n though_o with_o such_o external_n act_v as_o may_v be_v pay_v to_o creature_n have_v always_o be_v account_v religious_a worship_n civil_a respect_n be_v confine_v to_o this_o world_n as_o all_o natural_a and_o civil_a relation_n which_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o civil_a respect_n be_v but_o we_o have_v no_o intercourse_n with_o the_o other_o world_n but_o what_o be_v religious_a and_o therefore_o as_o the_o different_a kind_n and_o degree_n of_o civil_a honour_n be_v distinguish_v by_o the_o fight_n of_o the_o object_n to_o which_o they_o be_v pay_v though_o the_o external_n act_n and_o expression_n be_v the_o same_o as_o when_o man_n bow_v the_o body_n and_o be_v uncover_v you_o know_v what_o kind_n of_o honour_n it_o be_v by_o see_v who_o be_v present_a whether_o their_o father_n their_o friend_n or_o their_o prince_n or_o some_o other_o honourable_a person_n so_o the_o most_o certain_a mark_n of_o distinction_n between_o civil_a and_o religious_a worship_n be_v this_o that_o the_o one_o relate_v to_o this_o world_n the_o other_o to_o the_o invisible_a inhabitant_n of_o the_o next_o but_o god_n allow_v we_o to_o worship_n no_o invisible_a be_v but_o himself_o which_o will_v unavoidable_o confound_v the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o creature_n if_o the_o reflecter_n can_v give_v i_o any_o one_o instance_n of_o any_o nation_n in_o the_o world_n which_o do_v not_o account_v the_o worship_n of_o all_o invisible_a being_n to_o be_v religious_a i_o will_v own_v myself_o mistake_v and_o if_o all_o worship_n of_o invisible_a being_n be_v divine_v and_o religious_a worship_n this_o put_v a_o end_n to_o this_o dispute_n and_o abigail_n may_v fall_v down_o on_o her_o face_n before_o david_n and_o the_o beggar_n in_o lincolns-inn-field_n may_v beg_v upon_o their_o knee_n as_o the_o reflecter_n argue_v without_o any_o constructive_a idolatry_n but_o so_o can_v a_o papist_n who_o pray_v to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n to_o saint_n peter_n and_o saint_n paul_n now_o they_o be_v in_o a_o invisible_a state_n with_o all_o the_o external_n sign_n of_o worship_n and_o adoration_n except_v sacrifice_n which_o we_o can_v give_v to_o god_n himself_o and_o as_o for_o his_o instance_n of_o joshua_n fall_v down_o before_o the_o angel_n when_o he_o can_v prove_v that_o this_o be_v only_o a_o create_a angel_n and_o that_o joshua_n take_v he_o for_o no_o more_o we_o will_v consider_v it_o far_o now_o if_o to_o worship_n any_o invisible_a be_v be_v to_o give_v divine_a honour_n to_o it_o then_o to_o be_v sure_a to_o worship_v the_o image_n of_o such_o a_o invisible_a be_v must_v be_v religious_a worship_n also_o for_o if_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o image_n be_v refer_v to_o that_o invisible_a be_v who_o the_o image_n represent_v it_o can_v be_v civil_a but_o religious_a honour_n 4._o the_o last_o complaint_n be_v that_o the_o answerer_n appeal_v from_o their_o council_n and_o sense_n of_o their_o church_n to_o the_o sentiment_n of_o some_o private_a author_n and_o this_o i_o confess_v be_v a_o just_a exception_n against_o the_o answer_n if_o it_o be_v true_a but_o i_o challenge_v he_o to_o give_v any_o one_o instance_n of_o it_o wherein_o the_o answerer_n have_v set_v up_o the_o judgement_n of_o private_a author_n against_o the_o declare_a sense_n and_o judgement_n of_o their_o council_n and_o church_n he_o have_v indeed_o quote_v several_a of_o their_o author_n and_o to_o very_o good_a purpose_n as_o to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o what_o the_o practice_n of_o their_o church_n be_v and_o what_o opinion_n wise_a man_n among_o they_o have_v of_o such_o practice_n to_o which_o purpose_n he_o cite_v some_o french_a author_n wicelius_n and_o vives_n p._n 27_o 28._o which_o our_o reflecter_n be_v so_o much_o grieve_v at_o or_o to_o give_v a_o historical_a account_n of_o the_o state_n of_o the_o controversy_n what_o it_o be_v before_o and_o what_o since_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o about_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n p._n 17._o about_o the_o necessity_n of_o confession_n p._n 61._o or_o about_o the_o sense_n and_o interpretation_n of_o some_o controvert_v text_n of_o scripture_n or_o to_o state_n the_o notion_n of_o thing_n express_v but_o not_o define_v by_o the_o council_n as_o what_o merit_n be_v p._n 57_o for_o though_o the_o church_n have_v define_v the_o good_a work_n of_o justify_v person_n to_o be_v true_o meritorious_a yet_o it_o have_v not_o tell_v we_o what_o true_a and_o proper_a merit_n be_v and_o therefore_o we_o must_v learn_v this_o from_o the_o allow_a and_o receive_v definition_n of_o their_o divine_n thus_o the_o council_n have_v determine_v due_a honour_n and_o worship_n to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n but_o have_v not_o determine_v what_o this_o due_a honour_n and_o worship_n be_v and_o therefore_o we_o have_v no_o way_n to_o know_v it_o but_o by_o appeal_n to_o the_o general_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o their_o divine_n which_o be_v not_o to_o oppose_v the_o sentiment_n of_o private_a author_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n but_o where_o the_o church_n have_v not_o explain_v herself_o to_o learn_v her_o sense_n as_o well_o as_o we_o can_v from_o their_o most_o approve_a divine_n thus_o the_o council_n have_v decree_v the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n but_o have_v not_o define_v in_o what_o case_n and_o to_o what_o purpose_n they_o may_v be_v use_v and_o therefore_o when_o the_o representer_n say_v confident_o that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o relaxation_n of_o canonical_a penance_n the_o authority_n and_o especial_o the_o argument_n of_o greg._n de_fw-fr valent._n and_o bellarmin_n be_v good_a against_o he_o though_o not_o against_o their_o church_n have_v their_o council_n define_v it_o p._n 66._o when_o he_o assert_v that_o indulgence_n be_v not_o sell_v the_o tax_n of_o the_o apostolic_a chamber_n be_v good_a authority_n against_o he_o especial_o if_o those_o who_o sell_v indulgence_n receive_v the_o money_n only_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o alm_n which_o be_v allow_v by_o the_o council_n and_o when_o he_o deny_v that_o indulgence_n do_v concern_v the_o remission_n either_o of_o mortal_a or_o venial_a sin_n the_o answerer_n may_v well_o appeal_v to_o the_o very_a form_n of_o the_o pope_n bull_n which_o not_o only_o grant_v the_o remission_n of_o sin_n but_o in_o some_o case_n the_o plenary_a and_o most_o plenary_a remission_n of_o sin_n thus_o in_o what_o case_n the_o pope_n can_v dispense_v and_o in_o what_o not_o be_v not_o determine_v by_o the_o council_n and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n of_o know_v how_o large_a this_o power_n be_v but_o by_o appeal_n to_o the_o practice_n of_o pope_n in_o grant_v dispensation_n and_o