Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	church_n	rome_n	true_a	4,812	5	5.9762	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A82522	The defence of sundry positions & scriptures for the Congregational-way justified: or An answer to an epistle written by Mr. Richard Hollingworth, unto S.E. and T.T. wherein he (in many particulars) chargeth them with injurious dealing against God, and against himselfe, in that booke of theirs, called A defence of sundry positions, &c. Containing a vindication from such charges and aspersions so laid upon them. As also a briefe answer to his large (if not unreasonable) demands, to have scripturall, or rationall answ. given to his 112 queries. / By Sam: Eaton teacher Tim: Taylor pastor [brace] of [brace] the church at Duckenfield in Cheshire. Published according to order.	Eaton, Samuel, 1596?-1665.; Taylor, Timothy, 1611 or 12-1681.	1646 (1646)	Wing E120; Thomason E346_4; ESTC R24943	33,505	50

be occasion we shall annexe And whereas you say this is but one example of many as we know none at all so if there be any of moment we perswade our selves we should have met with them under his charge for you spare not to give many instances of the same kinde when you apprehend it makes for your advantage 6. The sixth charge undertakes to prove that we have a saculty and make much use of it to turne the proofe over to you When I shew you say you where the proofe of the Position from the text alledged is defective and require you to supply that defect you then turne it over to me to prove the contrary as 1 Cor. 16. 1. When I say the Churches of Galatia might for ought you alledge to the contrary be combined one to another the substance of your answer is without proofe we connot grant it And that you may more plaufibly put the businesse off your selves you leave out the words for ought you alledge to the contrary Answ A little besore we were told that to prove some positions by other scriptures and arguments than those annexed to the Positions as to your intent in the preface was a by matter And it was wished that we might keepe close to those scriptures and positions till they were cleared but in this place though we answer your arguments and consequently make good the proofes annexed and when we have done tell you that without proofe we cannot grant such a Classicall Combination in Galatia as is in Scot●●n● and in Holland yet we are arraigned as departing from rule and reason because we turne the probative part over unto you Is not our part defensive onely of these Positions and scriptures And if we deliver the scriptures of the doctrine contained in the Positions any thing in your examinations contained notwithstanding we doe Sportamquam nacti sumus ornare Performe what we have undertaken And though when we doe more if solidly and truely your selfe and all the lovers of truth are so much the more our debtors yet if we doe thus much onely you have no cause to ensure us 2. As for you Forasmuch as you afford such hard quarter to the Positions as to make them by interpretation a helping of God counterfeiting of the King of Kings hand and an addition to his word since he that makes a charge must prove it we thought you were bound these arguments in your examination failing either to make out your charge by other arguments or at least confesse that you have wronged the Authors of such Positions and the truth it selfe and therefore we put you upon proofe 3. As we put nothing off our selves that belonged to us so we never left out those words for ought you alledge to the contrary for any such end as you suggest But for brevity sake and because we thought there was nothing materiall to the businesse in hand either for your advantage or our disadvantage contained in them For though if you understand it in a sense nothing to the purpose viz. The Churches of Galatia might be combined for ought we alledge to the contrary meaning God could have combined them so he could have made Rome Paris or Madrid the place of an Oecumenicall Congregation for worship and government It is true yet if you meane the Churches of Galatia might be combined for ought we alledge to the contrary meaning there is nothing in the proofe made in the Position that inferres the non combination of the Churches of Galatia we say it is your oversight to assert it And we turne not over the proofe to you but having confuted the supposed proofe to the contrary vve send you to seeke new arguments or yeeld us the cause 7. The last charge is of a great wrong to your selfe and the truth of God as you say viz. That we curtall and clip your answers and arguments not onely the supplement but the substance and strength of them folding them up in obscure c. sometimes omitting them with a Censure You aske us a little after Do● you not omit that which you know to be pertinent while you transcribe and largely answer something lesse pertinent Answ What may be done through oversight vve knovv not but vve have omitted nothing pertinent of purpofe or advisedly D●lus late● in generalibus your ●en generall charges we cannot but take to be great injuries and the issues of a spirit of de●raction since you would beare the world in hand that they are so many that they would too much enlarge this Epistle augmenting it in sundry pages If you had spared your Queries at this time and left roome for the discovery of these supposed unc●ndide passages you had done your selfe no lesse right and us much lesse wrong And if you had but barely cited the pages and lines where such passages are found would this have swell'd up your Epistle to many pages more But let us consider the instance you give and leave the Reader to guesse at the rest for it s more then probable you would single out the grossest you could finde And first concerning the omitting of the seven particulars in position 24. Which you plainely affirme we left out least the Reader had we subscribed them should have expected a● answer We rendred another reason which we have the cleare testimony of our consciences for was the true reason why we left them out and that which you obtend no reason at all yet as though you did communicate with God in his incommunicable excellency of being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the searcher of the heart you affirme that theresore we left them out least the Reader had we transcribed them should have expected an answer We say againe if we give you for granted those seven particulars or rather seven generall heads including in them many particulars improve you them ●o the best advantage of your Presbyterian cause in opposition to the doctrine included in the 24 position For those particulars how many soever they be are no parts of the discipline left by Christ to the Church which the position saith in the essentials of it is unchangeable and therefore the position may be defended though those particulars be granted And for this cause we shall desire to be excused with you and nothing feare incurring prejudice with the Reader though we did not transcribe your seven tedious impertinencies to the cause in hand 2. We say further in that we transcribed them not we rather spared you then advantaged our selves for there is something in all of them that is either doubtfull or justly liable to exceptions For you undertaking to shew the differences betweene the Apostolicke Churches and ours say 1. The Jewish Ceremonies were then scarce dead at least not buried hence we are not bound to circumcise We answer This Legall right of Circumcision was never on foot among the Apostolick gentile Churches nor were they bound any more to it then we are now therefore

enterteises which serve for ornament and yet possibly may yeeld some contributions of strength also yet so that if they should be removed the building would remaine firme These amongst the learned are usually types doubtfull parables and darke prophesies which they bring in when they have solidly proved a point by sound argument before Thus it falls out with the Elders of New England who being demanded whether they did allow or thinke fit to allow and settle any certaine stinted maintenance upon the Ministers answer that there is nothing done that way amongst them and their practise they defend by two reasons which must needes inferre the unfitnesse of the contrary course at least to them which may be resolved into these two Arguments 1. Arg●If the Condition of the Ministers and the Churches to which they belong may vary then it is unfit to settle a certaine and stinted maintenance for the Ministery But c. Ergo. 2. Arg t If Christ our Lord hath appointed no such thing as stinted maintenance then it is unfit for the Church to settle stinted maintenance But c. Ergo. Upon these two pillars is the fabrike of their practise borne up yet to adde some probable lustre to what was well proved before they adde the opinion of some Divines concerning Revel 8. 8 9. and they speake doubtfully of the place as not thinking it fit confidently to lay this burden upon it But say they if those writers be not deceived which so expound that scripture as for our parts we know not but they expound it truly c. They say not confidently that the exposition is true but that they know not the contrary and if it be so then it may be truly gathered that the bringing in of setled endowments and eminent preferments into the Church hath beene the corruptions and to some t●● destruction of such as lived by them both Church Officers and members And we have endeavoured to shew the probability of this interpretation but dare not speake definitively of it Yet the Position in the leter of it undertakes no more than what you Brother grant viz. that Revel 8. 8 9. is applyed by some good Authors to those times in which Constantine brought setled endowments into the Church and yet we are still beaten as though what the Elders intended viz. to cast a probable lustre upon what was solidly proved before we had not clearely delivered this text of scripture and by consequence must be guilty of belying God and counterfeiting the King of Kings hand which is the language of the preface and so make us a laughing stock to some and the objects of hatred to other vulgar readers For this cause we must of necessity discover your dealing in this businesse 2. It is said of Amaleck that he met Israel in the way and Deut. 25. ●8 smot the hindermost of them even all that were feeble behind them so you Brother shew a singular dexterity in passing by the two fore-mentioned reasons and fall upon the probable argument drawne from this place the hindermost and most feeble of all the rest 3. Againe what they speake hypothetically and by way of supposition you make use of thetically and by way of position and so that it may well leave the ordinary reader under this apprehension that we have no other argument to build our dislike of stinted Church maintenance upon but this place For your scope is apparently not onely to vindicate the scriptures from abuse but also to confute these positions of the Congregationall way 4. Once more whereas the Elders shew that this place is applyed to those times wherein Constantine brought setled endowments into the Church with ampla praedia large possessions you Brother leave out ampla praedia and mention onely setled maintenance whereas the place may be understood in the latter sense as well as in the former For there were certaine Revenues belonging to the Churches before Euseb lib. 10. 1. 5. Constanstine his time as may appeare out of the imperiall constitution directed to Anilinus wherein he saith We have already decreed the same that the possessions belonging to the Churches aforetime should be restored And againe provide that if either gardens or houses or other possessions whatsoever have belonged to the tytle of their Churches all the same be speedily restored to them againe Lastly Give us leave to tell you that we conceive you are not a little injurious to the Elders of New-England and learned Master Forbes and others whilest you affirme that Constantines donation as you seeme to understand it is the foundation of this exposition because you would imply that they beleeve such a donation of Constantine to be a truth which is such an impudent fiction that all wise men no sooner heare it but abhorre it For those which say d. c. fund de El●c Sext. Chro. vol. 2. least affirme that Constantine gave the City of Rome to Silvester the Pope and his successours and others are not ashamed to avouch that he gave all the Westerne Empire And this donation is mentioned by Gratian in the Decretalls this also is censured by Nauclerus to be but Palea because it is manifest that Constantine gave Italy and other Kingdomes of the West to his sonnes by his last will and testament No● not of this Donation but of other maintenance which Constantine bestowed not upon the Bishop of Rome alone but upon other godly Bishops and Ministers throughout his Empire are the Elders of New-England Master Forbes and others to be understood Eightly say you And Position 7 doe you manifestly cleare that 2 Cor 8 5. doth pertinently and powerfully prove that every member at his admission doth promise to give himselfe to the Church to be guided by them when you say the practise of the Churches of Macedonia is by way of allusion made use of and the Argument is a Comparatis For you know allusions and comparisons are not argumentative Answ Why doe you the second time after admonition given by us in our former booke leave out that without which neither can the Churches directing nor the members following direction be lawfull For the Elders of New-England say not that a Church member is to give himselfe up to the Church to be guided by her according to will but according to God But these words according to God you leave out 2. If to answer all your Reasons to the contrary be to defend this Position by vertue of this text we have done it produce if you can any thing which hath the least appearance of an Argument in it which we have not answered 3. We have shewed that the case of the Macedonian Churches 2 Cor. 8. 5. is paralell with the case of a member giving himselfe up to be guided by the Church according to God For as God gave Paul and Timothy to direct the Churches of Macedonia according to God so God hath given particular Churches to direct their severall members according