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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	church_n	prove_v	scripture_n	5,357	5	6.6789	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A77292	Dr Durie's defence of the present ministry, being compared with the gospel and gospel ministry, turnes into smoke, and vanisheth As is made to appear in the ensuing treatise, by a witnesse of the gospel, John Braine.	Brayne, John.	1649 (1649)	Wing B4322A; ESTC R231104	35,215	40

Gospel order for as in Nature a man is first a child before a man though in honour a man is mentioned before a child so in the spirituall estate of Christians likewis● 3. As for that the Evangelist is said to be double I have already answered it to an objection already made there-against P. 16. Dr. All these following conjectures are so silly and so little worth the consideration that no wise man will spend time to refute them Resp Sir I did not spend the hundreth part of time to refute your prudential Presbyterian Government which hath but little of the Gospel patern in it at all Sir I tooke it a broad call your brethren to put it together againe if you can I provoke you to it and do not blind the eyes of the world and say They are silly things I will charge you with it your Wit and Learning cannot do it and therefore to save your credit you slight it but this will not serve you alway there is a day comming God will call you to an accompt for your Stewardship Luke 16.2 P. 16. on Colos 3.10.12.15 Dr. What he meanes by this example and to what purpose it is alledged I know not but I am sure he makes inferences from the Apostles words which are meer fancies and no wayes consistant with the Apostles mind in this place alledged for the Apostle doth not speak of the estate of the Church as it was a society but of the duty of every beleever as he is a member in Christ Resp 1. For the alledging it I did it to that purpose before I ever read Dionysius that he doth who shall tell you for me why I alledged it Dionysius chap. 6. Eccl. Hierar prioris autem vestis posi●io alteriusque assumptio migrationem illam à media vita licet sacra ad perfectionem significat sicut in divina regeneratione promotionem judicabat a purgata vita ad contemplautem illuminan●emque habitum illa vestis caudentis immutatio This was a received truth when Presbyterian Government as now it is was hid in the bottome of that bottomlesse pit 2. That the Church here is spoken of as to a Society I will maintaine according to my brief Analisis and exposition made on the whole Epistle in my Treatise of The Resurrection of fallen Churches as is made to appear which I provoke you to object against if you can P. 17. Dr. Suppose all these in the Paragraphs to be true how will the inference be made good that an Evangelist is a perpetual and ordinary ministry in the Church Resp 1. Methinks you should deal honestly with the truth and say they are true or shew wherein they are false to what purpose is your arguing in this kind else 2. How the inference will be made good that the Evangelist is a perpetual ordinary officer lieth at the Assembly door proved in my Letters waiting when you wil be at leisure to give them an Answer an● especially in that particular we have a proverb no man is so blind as he that will not see you need not enquire how Mr Doctor P. 17. 1 Thes 2.1 Our entrance Dr. From the particle our to infer were ministers joyned with him is no true ground the Apostle speaks of himself alone in the plurall number in many places 2 Cor. 10.1 2 3 4. and chap. 1. v. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 and elsewhere Resp 1. That the Apostle in this place had others joyned with him is clear Eph. 2.19 Paul Silvanus Timothy are those he calleth us and our in the whole Epistle 2. The Apostle speakes indeed himself but for Timothy and himself Timothy is joyned with him 3. By that chap. 1. with that whole le●ie of verses in our is the Church mentioned 〈◊〉 as in we Timothy and Paul in verse 1. Which proves he had others joyned with him and reason and sence will tell wherein ministers are one in the Scripture sence P. 18 Apply hence we may c. Dr. From the premises you may as wel conclude that there is a four-fold or five-fold administration in the ministry for if the number of Pauls co-adjutors be the medium of the argument then so many helpers as he had so many administrations there are hence it is clear you are an ex●reamly weake man Resp Sir would it not be a wonderful shame that such a stronge man like that Philistime should be overcome by weak means nay weaknesse it self Sir if you wil not boggle with the truth I wil mainetaine that the Apostles helpers are the medium of the argument so that you understand it of such as at one and the same time and in one Church only did help him in the Ministry but who would think you would take all 〈◊〉 his helpers in several Churches to be accounted of as in one Church doe you 〈◊〉 the word in simplicity and Godly sincerity now I appeal to God and your conscience in these things P. 18. Comming to shew how the Extraordinary and Ordinary Administrations differ Dr. Haec omnia gratis dicta and doe not con●●●● with that which hath been said formerly Resp Et tibi gratis concessa for before I only spake of the ordinary Church Ministry now of ordinary and extraordinary also and so you are never the wiser At first Christ administred to Apostles Apostles and Prophets to Evangelist Pastors and Teachers Evangelists to men Pastors to youth Teachers to infants Object You inserted not the Pastor and his administration Resp As the Apostle 2 Tim. 1.12 putting downe the two extreams of the Church Ministry comprehends the rest so in the first and last of the ordinary Church ministry is comprehended the middle P. 19. Dr. These allusions are no ground for a divine institution which at all hath not been shewed Ergo Resp Allusions nor nothing besides are any thing with you that serve you not Rom. 2.20 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the Babe is under the Teachers ministry or administration the Pastor helps on to perfect us as youth that under the administration of the Evangelists ministry we may be men in Christ Eph. 4.11.12.13 applied to the whole Church ministry P. 21. John 21.15 16 17. Dr. This is like the rest of your arguments to find Misteries where there are none and to build arguments upon them is all along your way it may be granted and is a truth that there is a distinction between Lambs and Sheep and between the● feeding and feeding of Sheep 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differunt modo the first is properly to feed them with meat the other rule and guide them but all these duties are recommended to one and the same man and this instalement of Peter in his office by sufficient grounds to infer that which you would gather from thence in the same Pastoral and Doctrinal charge and this is to be done without the coyning of a new office Resp Mr. Doctor you must

is the main work and the princip●ll And this is all that the Apostle in the place doth intend and not to distinguish preaching and baptizing so as if they did belong to severall offices and administrations You do in this as in most of your other allegations rack the Scriptures and make it speak that which it never meant Resp 1. Mr Doctor At the close ends still with some Monstrum hor rendum intending that when this prog in the dark was carried up and down the Reader wherever he opened the Book and perused his notes should apprehend that and all the rest to be abominable stuffe without more looking after it as some of late formerly my Friends told some of my Congregation that the Mininisters made but a mock of my Books chiefly occasioned doubtlesse through the Doctors silly notes and notions 2. Whereas you say to baptize was not the main work for which the Apostles were sent nor for which ministers are appoynted I know none denies it But Mr Doctor the Question is where it were to be done or not 2. Where it were to be done but by ministers ordinarily that were sent or called to do it or not 3. The Apostle saith he was not sent to do that 1 Cor 1.17 that is ordinarily and then where others were not sent thereto the Apostle baptized few 1 Cor 1.14 16 and yet in Corinth Act 18.8 many hearing believed and were baptized Your Countryman Rutherford a man of judgment saith in his Treatise of Church-Government some other hence in Corinth did baptize beside Paul and can you think he did it in the same Church with him without Commission And did not this Commission he had in some kind give the Apostle cause to say being in ordinary Church-fellowship with the other he was not sent to Baptize but Evangelize and cals him co-worker with him working in the same Church Paul taught in prove the contrary if you can 4. I distinguish not teaching from baptizing but the Teachers by their administrations the Teacher teacheth as well as the Evangelist though not the same doctrine nor to the same people 5. The Apostle not I distinguisheth Evangelizing from Baptizing Baptism being a peculiar act of the Teachers ministry and in a especiall kind distinguishing him 6. If this were so common to all why did not Peter baptize the first Gentiles men that received the holy spirit but comand others to do it A● 10.48 P. 28. In saying he was not the Apostle implyeth some are sent to baptize Dr. Do you think that any are sent to baptize and not to preach Mr Doctor have you my Book to read and do you ask that question Or did you send to Mr Ellis to answer you for me Do you find any such thing in all my Book Is not the contrary set down in many places Sir it seems you would beg me say so because you cannot make my Book do it Are things at this ebb with you Mr Doctor Dr. If the purpose of sending is primarily to preach and secondarily to baptize then the Apostle saith right that his commission was rather to intend the preaching work then the Baptizing of Disciples Resp 1. Mr Doctor What if this be not the purpose what then doth the Apostle say wrong it's 〈◊〉 no wrong to me if you say so of my writings if you are so saucy to say so of the Apostles but Mr Doctor we know your mind which is this That if the Apostles or any else say otherwaies then you would have them say they say wrong but when they say as you would have them say then they say right yea right or wrong 2. It was primarily to preach but it was to men without the Church before Baptism and secondarily baptize and yet Mr Doctor the Apostle is wrong in your sense 1. Here he speaks of Baptizing first as the first and Evangelizing after 2. This was to a Church constituted even Corinth and tended to perfect them after the Church admission in the faith of the Gospel being baptized already Dr. In your paragraph foregoing you say that baptizing was and the Doctrine of B●ptism the Doctors work as appears Heb. 6.1 and why not the Pastors and the Evangelists or the Apostles do all that either of these do Resp Mr Doctor Your why not hath no cause in it why they yea or the Apostles themselves should do it ordinarily yet for these causes not 1. Because God for edification and order ordered it otherwaies 2. By a Gospel law God hath committed to each one his dispensation in his proper place Sir if a man had asked Moses why may not the Levites do that the Priests do the Priests do that the high Priests do would he not have said it was otherwaies in your pattern God will not have it so and what else could he have said for who hath been his Counsellour Dr. Heb 6 1. The fundamentals of the Doctrine of Christ are reckoned up and hath the Evangelist nothing to do with them to publish them I wonder at this weaknesse and at the whole sequel of this discour●e Resp Mr Doctor The Evangelist hath to do with them as a beleiver but to teach these to the society of strong men in Christ he hath not I do not know where you will say the Apostle saith right or wrong in saying so as you did before but so he saith Heb 6.1 Leaving therfore the word or Doctrine of the beginning of Christ let us be carried on unto perfection and after _____ Mr Doctor what is here meant by this not again laying the foundation if not that they were not to be taught again to perfect men by the Evangelists as they before had been by the Teacher to his babes P. 29. Nicodemus John 3.12 Dr. What although Christ doth speak of earthly and heavenly things in respect of the ma●ter doth it therfore follow that he who teacheth the one may not meddle with the other These consequences are so senslesse that a man doth not know what to say of them Resp Mr Doctor See Joh. 3.3 1. There is mention of a man one that is in the condition of all mankind before regeneration meerly naturall 2. Regeneration is required of him as the means 3. Before this he cannot see the Kingdom of God in himself or in Church communion as the end for these are aimed at as ●n vers 5. is set out by water for the visible Kingdom or administrations of that Kingdom and then the Holy Ghost for the inward 1 In the former estate he is of the earth earthly as the first Adam was 1 Cor. 15.47 to whom Christ sheweth what that estate is and what is required to come out of it 2. In the Kingdom estate are Heavenly things ministred which Christ doth not minister to them not born again and shews why not because if they could not believe that Doctrine or teaching did so mediatly concern their state and condition how should they believe that concerned the