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sense_n church_n part_n visible_a 1,675 5 9.3112 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A31663 An impartial account of the Portsmouth disputation with some just reflections on Dr. Russel's pretended narrative : with an abrigdment of those discourses that were the innocent occasion of that disputation / by Samuel Chandler, William Leigh, Benjamin Robinson. Chandler, Samuel.; Leigh, William.; Robinson, Benjamin, 1666-1724. 1699 (1699) Wing C1933; ESTC R24745 96,620 125

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commission_n and_o that_o the_o apostle_n never_o do_v baptize_v any_o other_o than_o adult_v believer_n question_n l._n then_o i_o hope_v we_o may_v argue_v from_o christ_n own_o word_n do_v he_o speak_v pertinent_o or_o impertinent_o if_o pertinent_o how_o come_v he_o to_o say_v of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n unless_o he_o mean_v the_o visible_a church_n which_o alone_o make_v sense_n of_o the_o text._n but_o be_v this_o a_o answer_n to_o my_o question_n to_o say_v that_o adult_n believer_n be_v only_o intend_v in_o the_o commission_n rus._n yes_o if_o your_o question_n relate_v to_o water_v baptism_n l._n if_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n in_o part_n consist_v of_o infant_n than_o infant_n ought_v to_o be_v baptize_v but_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o etc._n etc._n rob._n pray_v mr._n russel_n which_o of_o mr._n leigh_v proposition_n do_v you_o deny_v l._n give_v i_o a_o answer_v direct_o rus._n i_o demand_v a_o exposition_n what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n again_o l._n i_o mean_v the_o church_n and_o kingdom_n of_o god_n here_o on_o earth_n rus._n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n l._n i_o prove_v it_o from_o the_o forecited_a scripture_n if_o by_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n mat._n 19_o be_v signify_v the_o church_n visible_a here_o on_o earth_n then_o infant_n do_v in_o part_n make_v up_o the_o church_n but_o &c_n &c_n therefore_o etc._n etc._n rus._n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n l._n if_o we_o must_v make_v good_a sense_n of_o scripture_n than_o it_o must_v so_o signify_v but_o etc._n etc._n rus._n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n of_o your_o major_n l._n if_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n can_v be_v take_v in_o any_o other_o signification_n to_o make_v good_a sense_n of_o it_o in_o that_o place_n than_o it_o must_v so_o be_v take_v but_o it_o can_v &c_n &c_n therefore_o rus._n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n l._n if_o you_o can_v produce_v no_o other_o good_a interpretation_n that_o can_v make_v good_a sense_n of_o that_o 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evil_a than_o they_o be_v not_o capable_a to_o be_v make_v disciple_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o man_n but_o they_o have_v no_o knowledge_n etc._n etc._n therefore_o etc._n etc._n chan._n here_o you_o trick_n all_o this_o while_n i_o tell_v you_o by_o disciple_n i_o mean_v incomplete_a one_o and_o such_o as_o be_v give_v up_o in_o order_n to_o be_v instruct_v in_o the_o school_n of_o christ._n i_o require_v you_o to_o prove_v that_o these_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v because_o not_o capable_a of_o instruction_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o men._n rus._n what_o do_v i_o care_v what_o you_o mean_v we_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o commission_n of_o christ._n will._n the_o scripture_n say_v they_o must_v be_v disciple_n according_a to_o the_o commission_n rus._n we_o be_v talk_v of_o the_o prerequisites_n to_o baptism_n therefore_o it_o be_v plain_a according_a to_o what_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o and_o the_o argument_n be_v express_v and_o full_a according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o text_n that_o they_o must_v be_v make_v disciple_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o man_n if_o they_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v for_o in_o mark_n christ_n commission_v to_o go_v into_o all_o the_o world_n and_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o every_o creature_n in_o mat._n 28._o they_o be_v to_o disciple_n all_o nation_n and_o then_o to_o baptize_v they_o now_o if_o infant_n be_v not_o capable_a of_o be_v make_v disciple_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o man_n than_o they_o be_v not_o capable_a subject_n of_o baptism_n now_o you_o deny_v this_o consequence_n of_o the_o major_n which_o i_o prove_v thus_o consequent_a if_o infant_n have_v no_o knowledge_n to_o discern_v between_o good_a and_o evil_n than_o they_o be_v not_o capable_a of_o be_v make_v disciple_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o man_n but_o etc._n etc._n rob._n by_o his_o former_a distinction_n he_o
we_o have_v a_o rule_n now_o mr._n chandler_n if_o you_o please_v you_o may_v take_v the_o part_n of_o a_o opponent_n and_o prove_v our_o practice_n to_o be_v agreeable_a to_o scripture_n mr._n chandler_n turn_v opponent_n arg._n 1._o chand_n visible_a church_n member_n ought_v to_o be_v baptize_v but_o some_o infant_n be_v visible_a church_n member_n therefore_o some_o infant_n etc._n etc._n rus._n adult_a believer_n may_v but_o not_o infant_n rob._n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o purpose_n we_o be_v upon_o which_o of_o mr._n chandler_n proposition_n do_v you_o deny_v rus._n let_v he_o repeat_v his_o argument_n chand_n visible_a church_n member_n ought_v to_o be_v baptize_v according_a to_o christ_n commission_n but_o some_o infant_n be_v visible_a church_n member_n therefore_o etc._n etc._n rus._n i_o deny_v the_o major_n baptize_v chand_n that_o all_o visible_a church_n member_n be_v to_o be_v baptize_v according_a to_o christ_n commission_n i_o prove_v thus_o if_o there_o be_v no_o precept_n or_o example_n in_o all_o the_o word_n of_o god_n since_o christ_n ordain_v baptism_n that_o make_v any_o other_o ordinance_n the_o visible_a mean_n of_o encring_a a_o person_n into_o the_o visible_a church_n then_o visible_a church_n member_n ought_v to_o be_v baptize_v but_o there_o be_v no_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o rus._n this_o be_v to_o say_v because_o they_o be_v member_n therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v make_v member_n chand_n no._n because_o they_o be_v member_n they_o ought_v to_o be_v solemn_o recognise_v as_o member_n like_o the_o coronation_n of_o a_o king_n he_o be_v a_o king_n before_o he_o be_v ●_z but_o he_o be_v crown_v that_o he_o may_v be_v own_a as_o king_n will._n if_o baptism_n be_v the_o initiate_a ordinance_n into_o the_o church_n than_o they_o be_v not_o church_n member_n before_o chand_n i_o say_v baptism_n be_v the_o solemn_a invest_n sign_n rus._n that_o baptism_n be_v a_o initiate_a ordinance_n i_o grant_v rob._n this_o argument_n be_v bring_v to_o prove_v that_o visible_a church_n member_n ought_v to_o be_v baptize_v will._n i_o deny_v that_o infant_n be_v visible_a church_n member_n in_o their_o infancy_n again_o l._n i_o will_v prove_v that_o some_o infant_n be_v church-member_n in_o their_o infancy_n suffer_v little_a child_n to_o come_v unto_o i_o for_o of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n mat._n 19.14_o hence_o i_o argue_v those_o that_o belong_v to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n i._n e._n the_o church-militant_a here_o upon_o earth_n be_v visible_a church-member_n but_o some_o infant_n belong_v to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n ay_o e._n the_o church-militant_a here_o on_o earth_n therefore_o will._n i_o deny_v the_o minor_n that_o text_n prove_v it_o not_o l._n if_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n can_v be_v take_v any_o otherwise_o in_o this_o text_n to_o make_v good_a sense_n of_o the_o text_n than_o it_o must_v be_v so_o take_v i._n e._n for_o the_o church-militant_a here_o on_o earth_n but_o it_o can_v be_v take_v any_o otherwise_o to_o make_v good_a sense_n of_o the_o text._n therefore_o &c_n &c_n and_o this_o i_o prove_v by_o a_o induction_n of_o particular_n there_o be_v various_a acceptation_n of_o this_o expression_n the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n sometime_o it_o signify_v the_o law_n and_o promise_n of_o the_o kingdom_n it_o do_v also_o signify_v the_o grace_n by_o which_o we_o observe_v those_o law_n and_o believe_v those_o promise_n thus_o it_o be_v represent_v by_o a_o grain_n of_o mustardseed_n sometime_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n and_o sometime_o it_o signify_v the_o church-militant_a hence_o therefore_o i_o thus_o argue_v if_o in_o this_o place_n it_o can_v neither_o signify_v the_o law_n and_o promise_n of_o god_n kingdom_n nor_o the_o grace_n by_o which_o we_o observe_v those_o law_n and_o embrace_v those_o promise_n nor_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n than_o it_o must_v signify_v the_o church-militant_a here_o upon_o earth_n but_o it_o can_v signify_v either_o of_o the_o former_a therefore_o it_o must_v signify_v the_o last_o viz._n the_o church-militant_a will._n i_o deny_v the_o minor_n i_o say_v it_o signify_v the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n l._n if_o it_o be_v nonsense_n so_o to_o understand_v the_o word_n than_o they_o be_v not_o so_o to_o be_v understand_v but_o its_o nonsense_n &c_n &c_n for_o then_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n must_v consist_v in_o part_n of_o poor_a little_a weak_a thing_n such_o as_o infant_n be_v whereas_o after_o death_n all_o be_v perfect_a in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n whatever_o they_o be_v here_o on_o earth_n will._n i_o think_v it_o have_v be_v to_o such_o belong_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n chand_n mat._n 19.14_o in_o the_o greek_a it_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n l._n that_o be_v of_o such_o it_o consist_v in_o part_n if_o we_o mention_v the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n or_o france_n and_o say_v of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o part_n it_o consist_v of_o these_o will._n i_o deny_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o part_n consist_v of_o these_o if_o they_o be_v neither_o member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n nor_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n than_o the_o church_n do_v not_o in_o part_n consist_v of_o these_o but_o &c_n &c_n therefore_o etc._n etc._n opponent_n l._n i_o answer_v now_o you_o relinguish_v my_o medium_fw-la but_o far_o if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n at_o all_o than_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n visible_a but_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o etc._n etc._n will._n i_o deny_v the_o minor_a i._n e._n that_o they_o be_v visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n l._n there_o be_v two_o sort_n of_o member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n there_o be_v member_n in_o foro_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la and_o member_n in_o foro_fw-la caeli_fw-la in_o which_o of_o these_o sense_n do_v you_o deny_v they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n will._n if_o by_o the_o church_n you_o mean_v the_o visible_a church_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n here_o for_o about_o four_o or_o five_o line_n there_o be_v great_a confusion_n in_o what_o our_o scribe_n have_v write_v but_o this_o i_o take_v to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o it_o l._n if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n in_o any_o sense_n than_o they_o be_v member_n of_o a_o particular_a or_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o if_o of_o a_o particular_a then_o of_o the_o universal_a which_o include_v it_o and_o therefore_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n in_o some_o sense_n and_o for_o proof_n hereof_o i_o return_v to_o my_o argument_n which_o you_o have_v not_o be_v able_a to_o answer_n of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n i._n e._n the_o church_n militant_a will._n i_o distinguish_v as_o to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n it_o be_v there_o mean_v of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n l._n if_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n then_o it_o be_v nonsense_n but_o by_o the_o way_n the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n either_o be_v put_v for_o the_o happiness_n or_o subject_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n if_o the_o happiness_n than_o the_o word_n must_v run_v thus_o of_o such_o little_a child_n be_v the_o happiness_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n if_o the_o subject_n than_o thus_o of_o such_o little_a child_n be_v the_o subject_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o glory_n now_o neither_o of_o these_o be_v sense_n therefore_o can_v be_v mean_v but_o my_o first_o interpretation_n stand_v good_a still_o will._n i_o distinguish_v between_o a_o right_a title_n and_o possession_n here_o be_v a_o vacancy_n three_o thing_n it_o be_v true_a faith_n give_v a_o right_a to_o baptism_n according_a to_o the_o commission_n a_o profession_n of_o that_o faith_n give_v a_o right_a to_o the_o administration_n of_o that_o ordinance_n and_o it_o be_v the_o commission_n that_o authorise_v the_o administrator_n rus._n this_o text_n you_o produce_v have_v no_o relation_n at_o all_o to_o the_o commission_n nor_o be_v baptism_n in_o the_o least_o intend_a in_o the_o text._n l._n mr._n russel_n i_o will_v propose_v this_o question_n to_o you_o whether_o both_o what_o christ_n say_v and_o do_v together_o with_o what_o the_o apostle_n say_v and_o do_v be_v the_o best_a explication_n of_o christ_n commission_n and_o then_o whether_o i_o may_v not_o argue_v from_o christ_n own_o word_n for_o visible_a church_n membership_n and_o so_o for_o baptism_n rus._n i_o do_v allow_v that_o what_o christ_n say_v and_o do_v and_o what_o the_o apostle_n say_v and_o do_v be_v a_o very_a good_a interpretation_n of_o the_o commission_n of_o our_o lord_n and_o i_o do_v say_v that_o only_o adult_a person_n be_v intend_v in_o the_o
a_o word_n of_o the_o consequence_n which_o be_v still_o deny_v but_o be_v go_v on_o upon_o the_o antecedent_n antecedent_n he_o take_v no_o notice_n at_o all_o of_o the_o distinction_n but_o go_v on_o to_o prove_v that_o infant_n can_v be_v complete_a disciple_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o men._n men._n here_o follow_v a_o general_n laughter_n laughter_n this_o be_v the_o consequence_n that_o have_v be_v still_o deny_v and_o no_o proof_n offer_v offer_v but_o the_o dr._n ought_v to_o have_v prove_v either_o that_o there_o be_v no_o incomplete_a disciple_n or_o that_o they_o be_v exclude_v from_o the_o commission_n for_o bap●●●_n because_o they_o have_v no_o knowledge_n etc._n etc._n etc._n here_o the_o dr._n neither_o deny_v that_o paul_n do_v declare_v the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n in_o his_o sermon_n nor_o assert_n that_o all_o kc_n preach_v be_v leave_v on_o record_n record_n this_o word_n it_o be_v may_n either_o refer_v to_o paul_n declaration_n or_o to_o baptism_n and_o this_o ambiguity_n cause_v some_o confusion_n afterward_o afterward_o here_o the_o dr._n be_v to_o prove_v the_o consequent_a and_o he_o go_v on_o to_o prove_v the_o antecedent_n antecedent_n the_o dr._n will_v ramble_v and_o we_o rath●r_v follow_v than_o leave_v he_o and_o give_v the_o word_n all_o nation_n suppose_v by_o the_o word_n it_o he_o mean_v baptism_n baptism_n who_o doubt_v this_o and_o what_o be_v it_o to_o the_o purpose_n purpose_n remember_v he_o do_v not_o mention_v any_o here_o to_o who_o he_o have_v declare_v the_o council_n etc._n etc._n but_o the_o ephesian_n he_o mention_n jew_n and_o greek_n because_o there_o be_v greek_n or_o hellenist_n at_o ephesus_n and_o many_o other_o place_n up_o and_o down_o as_o well_o as_o jew_n and_o we_o do_v question_v but_o he_o do_v declare_v the_o whole_a council_n etc._n etc._n and_o therefore_o infant_n baptism_n but_o say_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o be_v leave_v on_o record_n as_o preach_v by_o paul_n especial_o to_o these_o ephesian_n when_o there_o be_v other_o good_a scripture_n proof_n for_o it_o but_o the_o dr._n make_v a_o long_a harangue_n only_o to_o bring_v over_o his_o own_o argument_n again_o which_o he_o can_v not_o make_v good_a good_a here_o our_o scribe_n be_v imperfect_a and_o i_o can_v remember_v what_o ought_v to_o be_v insert_v but_o the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n be_v not_o remove_v remove_v how_o many_o time_n have_v the_o dr._n be_v tell_v what_o we_o mean_v by_o complete_a disciple_n disciple_n and_o thus_o to_o spend_v time_n he_o will_v have_v his_o long_a argument_n over_o again_o again_o a_o excellent_a proof_n i._n e._n turn_v the_o conclusion_n into_o a_o question_n question_n observe_v he_o fall_v upon_o the_o minor_n not_o a_o word_n of_o the_o major_a major_a here_o the_o dr._n wave_v the_o distinction_n that_o he_o may_v wrap_v up_o himself_o and_o the_o auditory_a in_o confusion_n confusion_n here_o the_o dr._n se●ms_v willing_a to_o turn_v off_o the_o disputation_n to_o original_a sin_n with_o those_o of_o his_o profession_n d●n●_n d●n●_n here_o be_v a_o fallacy_n he_o will_v now_o suppose_v his_o own_o conclusion_n and_o the_o sum_n of_o what_o we_o deny_v before_o before_o he_o be_v here_o to_o prove_v the_o consequence_n and_o he_o bring_v a_o instance_n to_o prove_v the_o antecedent_n and_o but_o bare_o assert_v the_o consequent_a consequent_a what_o be_v a_o man_n authority_n in_o this_o case_n but_o his_o judgement_n judgement_n the_o people_n laugh_v not_o because_o erasmus_n '_o s_o name_n be_v mention_v but_o because_o he_o say_v erasmus_n write_v in_o english_a english_a mr._n leigh_n since_o the_o disputation_n have_v acknowledge_v himself_o guilty_a of_o a_o mistake_n in_o call_v the_o eunuch_n a_o proselyte_n of_o the_o gate_n whereas_o he_o be_v probable_o of_o the_o church_n and_o such_o a_o one_o infant_n be_v account_v church-member_n but_o the_o dr._n have_v not_o the_o sense_n to_o discover_v this_o mistake_n mistake_n 2_o thes._n 3.10_o 3.10_o mr._n leigh_n mistook●●_n word_n be_v will_v not_o but_o it_o come_v to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d for_o infant_n have_v power_n and_o will_n both_o alike_o alike_o reader_n observe_v the_o argument_n from_o luk._n 14._o be_v ●●_o ope_v and_o what_o mr._n rus._n here_o say_v far_o have_v be_v answer_v before_o in_o the_o word_n all_o nation_n usque_fw-la ad_fw-la nauseam_fw-la nauseam_fw-la the_o contrary_a whereof_o have_v not_o yet_o be_v prove_v prove_v mat._n 19.14_o 19.14_o here_o be_v no_o notice_n take_v of_o the_o distinction_n only_o the_o old_a thing_n assert_v assert_v beside_o constantine_n father_n be_v a_o pagan_a and_o constantine_n have_v a_o desire_n to_o be_v baptise_a in_o jordan_n because_o christ_n be_v be_v the_o dr._n allow_v it_o to_o be_v the_o first_o 600_o y●●rs_n as_o i_o remember_v remember_v observe_v by_o believer_n be_v before_o understand_v a_o christian_a believer_n by_o themselves_o wherever_o they_o speak_v of_o believe_v as_o necessary_a to_o baptism_n neither_o be_v the_o word_n when_o in_o any_o other_o sense_n beside_o it_o be_v grant_v before_o that_o jew_n and_o pagan_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v till_o adult_v and_o both_o christ_n and_o his_o ●●●●●r_n be_v jew_n at_o the_o time_n of_o his_o birth_n birth_n indeed_o the_o people_n laugh_v both_o way_n way_n mark_v that_o the_o dr._n deny_v that_o visible_a church_n member_n ought_v to_o be_v baptize_v baptize_v the_o major_n be_v drop_v and_o he_o deny_v the_o minor_a after_o a_o while_n you_o will_v find_v the_o major_a silent_o take_v up_o again_o again_o he_o answer_v not_o my_o argument_n by_o mak●●●●ood_a sense_n of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d ●ny_v other_o way_n 〈◊〉_d now_o ●_z rule_v 〈◊〉_d ●●ns_n opponent_n opponent_n here_o he_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o the_o second_o part_n which_o be_v the_o main_a of_o my_o question_n question_n here_o the_o dr._n can_v not_o tell_v what_o to_o say_v and_o therefore_o will_v have_v all_o over_o again_o again_o reader_n to_o repeat_v all_o this_o be_v nauseous_a but_o because_o the_o dr._n can_v do_v nothing_o else_o be_v will_v force_v we_o to_o it_o it_o and_o thus_o to_o no_o purpose_n but_o to_o spen●_n time_n mr._n russel_n will_v have_v the_o same_o over_o again_o again_o this_o poor_a dry_a evasion_n you_o see_v he_o have_v before_o and_o i●_n behold_v to_o his_o old_a friend_n danvers_n for_o for_o here_o he_o shift_v the_o respondency_n and_o turn_v opponent_n which_o we_o give_v way_n to_o because_o they_o can_v do_v nothing_o else_o else_o here_o he_o drop_v his_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o church_n membership_n be_v not_o the_o ground_n of_o baptism_n baptism_n observe_v how_o he_o leave_v his_o argument_n and_o run_v to_o what_o have_v be_v wear_v threadbare_a before_o before_o the_o poor_a man_n run_v again_o from_o consequence_n ●o_o express_v word_n though_o consequence_n be_v allow_v before_o before_o remember_v this_o refer_v to_o the_o subject_n only_o not_o the_o m●in●●●_n m●in●●●_n now_o you_o see_v the_o dr._n very_o plain_o take_v the_o opponency_n because_o he_o can_v do_v nothing_o else_o contrary_a to_o his_o most_o false_a assertion_n in_o his_o narrative_n narrative_n a_o wise_a answer_n from_o a_o silly_a doctor_n be_v it_o not_o not_o this_o be_v full_o answer_v before_o therefore_o it_o be_v tedious_a for_o scribe_n to_o write_v it_o it_o here_o be_v a_o vacancy_n in_o the_o note_n of_o our_o scribe_n scribe_n here_o observe_v again_o dr._n russel_n will_v shift_v the_o opponency_n on_o we_o we_o reader_n observe_v that_o the_o dr._n ground_n his_o practice_n upon_o two_o argument_n link_v together_o viz._n the_o resemblance_n between_o dip_v and_o a_o burial_n and_o primitive_a practice_n mr._n chandler_n deny_v this_o resemblance_n between_o dip_v and_o burial_n to_o conclude_v for_o dip_v and_o he_o ought_v to_o have_v prove_v that_o it_o do_v but_o instead_o thereof_o he_o insist_o upon_o his_o second_o argument_n draw_v from_o primitive_a 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i_o say_v they_o be_v not_o church_n member_n de_fw-fr jure_fw-la will._n be_v they_o deny_v any_o privilege_n rob._n according_a to_o what_o you_o say_v just_a now_o they_o be_v deny_v baptism_n be_v that_o no_o church_n privilege_n baptism_n will._n such_o as_o be_v visible_a member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n be_v qualify_v with_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n etc._n etc._n l._n i_o deny_v it_o viz._n that_o they_o be_v always_o so_o will._n it_o be_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o charity_n so_o l._n such_o as_o be_v a_o generation_n of_o viper_n be_v not_o qualify_v with_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n and_o so_o be_v not_o church_n member_n according_a to_o your_o own_o assertion_n rob._n especial_o such_o as_o be_v know_v to_o be_v a_o generation_n of_o viper_n will._n if_o our_o lord_n jesus_n do_v disciple_n such_o as_o be_v church_n member_n before_o they_o be_v baptize_v than_o church_n membership_n be_v not_o the_o ground_n of_o baptism_n but_o etc._n etc._n l._n we_o distinguish_v between_o the_o jewish_a church_n and_o the_o christian_a church_n and_o then_o i_o distinguish_v between_o infant_n church_n membership_n and_o adult_a church_n member_n now_o christian_a church_n membership_n be_v a_o ground_n of_o baptism_n sharp_a the_o anabaptist_n moderator_n you_o say_v infant_n be_v church_n member_n church_n member_n upon_o their_o apostasy_n ought_v to_o be_v excommunicate_v when_o be_v any_o admit_v into_o church_n membership_n in_o their_o infancy_n excommunicate_v upon_o their_o apostasy_n rob._n there_o be_v with_o we_o as_o with_o the_o jew_n ancient_o a_o two_o fold_v excommunication_n excommunicatio_fw-la major_n and_o excommunicatio_fw-la minor_n as_o to_o the_o first_o which_o be_v a_o solemn_a cut_v off_o from_o the_o universal_a church_n i_o question_v whether_o our_o law_n give_v we_o the_o liberty_n of_o practise_v it_o and_o as_o to_o the_o second_o which_o be_v a_o suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n supper_n i_o do_v not_o see_v that_o to_o be_v needful_a in_o the_o case_n before_o we_o leigh_n to_o mr._n sharp_a we_o be_v not_o now_o talk_v about_o the_o management_n of_o church_n member_n but_o who_o be_v the_o person_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v esteem_v so_o far_o it_o be_v needless_a ●●_o exclude_v those_o from_o adult_n church-membership_n who_o never_o offer_v themselves_o to_o it_o it_o be_v as_o if_o we_o shall_v shut_v our_o door_n against_o a_o person_n who_o never_o attempt_v a_o entrance_n to_o this_o mr._n sharp_n make_v no_o reply_n wil._n minister_n be_v to_o baptise_v none_o but_o those_o that_o be_v disciple_v by_o the_o word_n of_o the_o commission_n before_o chand_n here_o be_v the_o consequence_n of_o it_o wil._n no_o here_o be_v no_o genuine_a consequence_n the_o commission_n mention_n no_o more_o but_o disciple_n and_o believer_n and_o if_o you_o can_v find_v one_o person_n more_o beside_o disciple_n and_o believer_n do_v it_o before_o rus._n it_o do_v appear_v by_o all_o that_o have_v be_v say_v that_o our_o practice_n be_v allow_v rob._n not_o your_o practice_n l._n we_o do_v not_o allow_v your_o practice_n unless_o to_o such_o as_o have_v not_o be_v baptize_v m●in●●●_n will._n we_o agree_v that_o those_o that_o be_v not_o baptize_v aught_o to_o be_v baptize_v you_o be_v bind_v to_o baptize_v none_o but_o such_o as_o you_o be_v bind_v to_o preach_v to_o l._n i_o deny_v it_o rus._n have_v infant_n the_o use_n of_o reason_n chand_n no._n narrative_n rus._n if_o infant_n without_o understanding_n be_v capable_a of_o be_v make_v disciple_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o man_n then_o may_v the_o beast_n of_o the_o field_n but_o the_o beast_n of_o the_o field_n may_v not_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o l._n i_o appeal_v to_o all_o present_a be_v it_o as_o proper_a to_o take_v pig_n and_o dog_n to_o school_n as_o little_a child_n of_o a_o year_n and_o half_a old_a be_v those_o so_o capable_a of_o the_o parent_n be_v resignation_n and_o master_n acceptation_n as_o these_o if_o infant_n may_v keep_v the_o charge_n of_o the_o sanctuary_n from_o a_o month_n old_a and_o upward_a they_o may_v be_v esteem_v believer_n and_o disciple_n but_o etc._n etc._n rus._n i_o wonder_v you_o will_v maintain_v ●he●hing_n upon_o such_o silly_a foundation_n not_o l._n pray_v answer_v the_o last_o argument_n rus._n there_o be_v nothing_o of_o christ_n commission_n in_o it_o l._n unless_o we_o can_v prove_v infant_n baptism_n in_o the_o close_a of_o one_o of_o the_o evangelist_n no_o proof_n be_v to_o be_v allow_v will._n i_o think_v it_o be_v to_o be_v argue_v according_a to_o the_o commission_n it_o but_o i_o see_v etc._n etc._n rob._n if_o you_o be_v of_o mr._n russel_n mind_n than_o you_o may_v turn_v your_o child_n out_o to_o the_o dog_n and_o pig_n and_o beast_n of_o the_o field_n it_o be_v most_o insufferable_a i_o never_o hear_v such_o a_o expression_n in_o my_o life_n but_o you_o may_v see_v what_o the_o principle_n of_o anabaptist_n natural_o lead_v man_n to_o here_o the_o anabaptist_n be_v shameful_o nonplus_v mr._n leigh_n apply_v himself_o to_o the_o mayor_n and_o governor_n in_o this_o manner_n you_o see_v they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o answer_v our_o first_o argument_n but_o be_v entire_o gravel_a the_o rule_n of_o disputation_n oblige_v we_o to_o go_v no_o far_o in_o the_o opponency_n yet_o we_o will_v be_v at_o your_o command_n we_o have_v six_o argument_n more_o at_o hand_n if_o you_o please_v we_o will_v proceed_v to_o offer_v they_o or_o if_o you_o please_v we_o will_v proceed_v to_o the_o second_o question_n sharp_a anabaptist_n moderator_n let_v we_o have_v a_o precept_n or_o a_o example_n rob._n a_o precedent_n we_o need_v not_o give_v here_o be_v a_o precept_n bring_v and_o yet_o no_o answer_n give_v to_o it_o rus_n what_o precept_n rob._n that_o which_o by_o undeniable_a consequence_n oblige_v we_o to_o it_o though_o there_o be_v not_o in_o express_a word_n a_o requirement_n that_o we_o baptise_v infant_n one_o will_v have_v think_v mr._n russel_n shall_v have_v allow_v though_o they_o be_v not_o capable_a of_o duty_n yet_o they_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o privilege_n here_o a_o answer_n to_o our_o last_o argument_n be_v again_o and_o again_o call_v for_o but_o none_o give_v rob._n pray_v mr._n chandler_n let_v no_o more_o time_n be_v lose_v but_o proceed_v to_o another_o argument_n arg._n 2._o chand_n if_o some_o infant_n be_v the_o disciple_n of_o christ_n then_o according_a to_o the_o commission_n of_o our_o lord_n some_o infant_n be_v to_o be_v baptise_a but_o some_o infant_n be_v disciple_n therefore_o etc._n etc._n rus._n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n chand_n those_o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o scripture_n call_v disciple_n be_v disciple_n but_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o scripture_n call_v some_o infant_n disciple_n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v disciple_n rus._n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n chand_n i_o prove_v it_o from_o that_o text_n act_v 15.10_o now_o therefore_o why_o tempt_v you_o god_n to_o put_v a_o yoke_n upon_o the_o neck_n of_o the_o disciple_n upon_o infant_n the_o yoke_n of_o circumcision_n be_v lay_v they_o be_v call_v disciple_n rus._n i_o deny_v that_o text_n prove_v it_o chan._n if_o this_o yoke_n be_v lay_v upon_o the_o neck_n of_o the_o disciple_n than_o infant_n be_v disciple_n but_o &c._n &c._n therefore_o etc._n etc._n rus._n ●_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o text_n either_o 〈◊〉_d or_o intend_v chand_n the_o dispute_n be_v occasion_v by_o some_o false_a teacher_n that_o have_v say_v except_o christian_n be_v circumcise_a a●●●●p●_n the_o law_n of_o moses_n they_o can_v not_o be_v save_v now_o say_v the_o apostle_n why_o do_v you_o lay_v a_o yoke_n upon_o the_o neck_n o●_n the_o disciple_n &c_n &c_n this_o yoke_n be_v the_o yoke_n of_o circumcision_n which_o be_v lay_v on_o the_o neck_n of_o some_o infant_n rus._n no_o infant_n can_v be_v here_o intend_v for_o those_o who_o be_v call_v disciple_n in_o this_o verse_n be_v call_v brethren_n and_o believer_n in_o the_o 9_o the_o verse_n and_o therefore_o it_o can_v not_o intend_v infant_n l._n we_o will_v read_v verse_n the_o first_o except_o you_o be_v circumcise_a after_o the_o manner_n of_o moses_n now_o i_o ask_v you_o what_o be_v the_o manner_n of_o moses_n rus._n to_o cut_v the_o foreskin_n of_o their_o flesh._n l._n suppose_v we_o be_v to_o teach_v this_o people_n as_o the_o judaize_v christian_n do_v they_o except_o you_o be_v circumcise_a after_o the_o manner_n of_o moses_n you_o can_v be_v save_v no_o doubt_n but_o they_o will_v understand_v the_o manner_n of_o moses_n to_o intend_v not_o only_o all_o the_o circumstance_n of_o it_o but_z that_o their_o child_n must_v also_o be_v circumcise_a this_o be_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o moses_n here_o i_o will_v form_v this_o argument_n if_o those_o be_v call_v disciple_n