maintained Fourthly In the true Church of Christ the true doctrine of Jesus Christ the Prophets and Apostles in matters fundamentall is kept but so as the living members may erre both in doctrine and manners and others in societie with them may erre grossely impenitently finally And thus the Church of England doth keepe the doctrine of w Chaloner Credo Sanct. 2 part subject The church in respect of its outward part as it enters the Creed is not onely an outward profession of a doctrine or discipline but a profession of the same under the notion of truth And that the Church in this sense is invisible Gregory de Valent. confes in his third Tom. upō Thomas disp 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect 16. and Bellarm in his third Book de Eccles ca. 15. Bilson Christ subject par 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad elect reprobate hath no such promise but shee may erre only the chosen of christ which are the true members of his body properly called his Church they shall not erre unto perdition c. Christ the Prophets and Apostles intirely without addition or alteration though in the government and administration there be many things amisse though in the societie there be many who be not qualified as sheepe humble and meeke but fierce and cruell Fifthly No societie is the Church of Christ which retaineth not the true worship of God but in the true Church of God his pure worship may be stained with rites and ceremonies which might well be spared and are justly disliked Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists and all other sorts and sects of men And thus in the Church of England the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained though the Nonconformists dislike and the Conformists groane under some ceremonies not abandoned The onely knot here to be unloosed againe is your slander against the Nonconformists in that you charge them to say that the Church of England doth not retaine the true worship of God And now I shall desire you calmely to consider how according to your principles you can untie a knot or two if they should be knit for you in this wise First He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ who grossely perverteth the Scripture falsifieth Authors deceiveth with aequivocations condemneth the true worship of God as pernicious idolatrie and the x Jewell upon the first to the Thes chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father and in the Lord Iesus Christ it is the company of the faithfull whom God hath gathered together in Christ by his Word and by the holy Ghost to honour him as he himselfe hath appointed This Church heareth the voyce of the Shepheard It will not follow a stranger but flyeth from him Of this Church Hieron in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possidens c. societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies and laboureth to draw Christians from the communion of Saints which ought to be kept and maintained Examine your writings in the feare of God and adde the proposition wanting Secondly He is no true Minister who derives his authoritie from them that are not able to give it But he that derives his authoritie from the people derives it from them that have no authoritie to give it You know the conclusion and where it will light Thirdly The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ the Kings Daughter quickened by the Spirit married unto Christ gentle meeke humble retaining the true worship of God without addition or alteration and keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace But the societie of Separatists is not the true flocke of Christ quickned by the Spirit humble meeke gentle keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace These properties doe not agree to all and every one in that societie in truth according as in the former propositions you say they belong to the true Church of God If you shall be able to maintaine the former propositions against men as you vaunt I doe not beleeve you shall be able to unloose these few knots CHAP. V. SECT I. IT may be some will expect that I should write something of their Lecturers Can. Neces of Separat pag. 49 50. and the rather because they in the judgement of many are thought to be the best Ministers Of their life and doctrine I say nothing But as for their Ministery surely it is new and strange For the Originall of their name manner of entrance and Administration is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures and I thinke never before heard of till in these latter broken and confused times Therefore it is no marvell when the Question hath beene propounded to some of them as it was by the Pharisees to John Who art thou That they have not been able for their life to answer to answer the point Neither could agree among themselves what kinde of Ministery it is that they have taken up And being hard pressed for resolution they have ingenuously confessed that unlesse they be Evangelists they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament This I write upon my owne certain knowledge the persons I thinke are yet living whose names for some reason I forbeare to expresse Howbeit I can and will doe it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion I doe not thinke it strange that they should thus speake for indeed I know not what they can say better in defence of their standing Pastours I am sure they will not say they are For First They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them Secondly They performe not the office thereof for they agree with the people onely to preach and not to administer either the seales or censures to them Thirdly Their comming unto the people is in a strange sort for they make a covenant each with other for some certaine yeares and when that time is out both parties are free and so may leave one the other and doe many times but a true Pastour may not doe so For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheepe till he see the Wolfe comming But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship comming towards them Fourthly He that is a Parson or Vicar is taken generally for the Minister of the place And truely howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian as the Nonconformists say yet in many respects they doe better resemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatsoever Therefore not without just cause Neces of Discipl pag. 74. doe the Reformists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers And affirme that they are neither Pastours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of ANSVVER THis point concerning Lecturers I have purposely deferred unto this place because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension
Stay against straying s 13. p. 124. 125. Iere. 23.6 Prov. 5.3 Mat. 7.15 Ioh 104 5. Phil. 3 2. See Stay against Sect. 12. pag. 116 117 118 119. s â—â— p. 112 113 Ioh 4.23 Rom. 12.12 Numb 16. Isal 50.18 1 Tim. 5.22 〈◊〉 against Stray sect 6 pag. 81.82 sect 13. pag. 89. Matth. 28.19 20. Luk. 10.16 〈◊〉 Theâ—â— 2.2 3 4. Revel 13 14 9 12. 18.4 is certainly a breach of the Second Commandement For what doe they but indeed set up an Idoll yea and bow downe unto it who serve God in and by a devised and usurped Ministery In Song 1.7 8. The faithfull entreat Christ to be shewed where he by his Ministery with his Spirit Word Seales Censures c. feedeth his Flock that there they might place themselves for Instruction and Government and not turn aside to the flocks of his companions that is the congregations of false Christs and false Prophets which came in his Name saying I am Christ and deceive many Againe Ephraim is joyned to Idolls What were they among others they were Priests which Jeroboam ordained for the high Places What follows let him alone that is have no communion with him either in his false Ministery or other Idolatry Often doe the Prophets Christ and his Apostles forbid men to heare those which thrust themselves into ministeriall offices not being sent of God and from the Church To communicate in a false ministerie is to doe a vaine worship and therefore unacceptable altogether unto the Lord. In this men doe abet the party in his sin and so make it their owne by imputation and inwrap themselves in the same guilt with the offender God hath promised no blessing to his Word but in his own Ordinance though I confesse he may yea and doth grant oft times that through his infinite Godnesse which no man can challenge by an ordinary promise To doe otherwise is to rebell grievously against the Lord and to uphold what in us lyeth that which the Lord will consume therefore as no good Subject should assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civill justice to the Kings Subjects no although he administer the same never so legally justly impartially except the same person had a commission from the King so to doe so neither ought the Subjects of Christs Kingdome A dumb Mâ—â—sterâ—e being unlawfull and false is to be separated from their Ministers for the greatest part are dumb Ministers Câ—â— Necess of Separ pag. 42. to partake with any person whatsoever in the dispensation of any Spirituall ordinance though in it selfe never so holy without sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and Soveraigne King of his Church Christ Jesus Such as have spirituall communion in a false Ministery doe embrace the bosome of a stranger and so commit spirituall whoredome against the Lord. Christ setteth it downe as a propertie of his sheep to be observed that they follow not strangers but flie from them for that they know not their voice ANSWER THis Reason is grounded upon the complaint which Nonconformists make of some great abuses in the Ministery but in them it is not to be understood of all Ministers Where are the words or what be they that condemne all the Ministers for some that say all Ministers are unlawfully admitted for some or that there is none good because some are bad If there be no words that carry with them any such sense then you do wrong to your brethren The Lord blesse and encrease an hundred fold the godly wise learned grave Ministers of this Church T. C. repl 1. pag. 25. And so others in their complaints are to be understood Nolo autem 〈◊〉 quis existimet per ea quae ecclesiasticorum permissa sunt me omnes prorsus ecclesiasticos nullo excepto comprehâ—ndere velle Nic. Clem. Specul Eccles nor to inferre a nullitie of the Ministery It is nor to be understood of all Ministers for amongst them there be many learned wise godly and painfull as the truth is and they acknowledge duly called and approved whose Ministerie God hath sealed and blessed It doth not inferre a nullitie of the Ministerie of others for even the idle unlearned scandalous being in the roome of Ministers are Ministers to others though not to themselves and their Ministery so long as they Minister the things of God is effectuall to the people of God If then your meaning be that the whole Ministery of the Church of England is false impure unlawfull according to the principles and complaints of the Nonconformists it is notorious If that the Ministerie of the Church of England in generall is a nullitie by reason of some maims and defects found therein which they desire might be redressed in that also you doe them apparant wrong In the Proposition as it is set down that we may understand the sense thereof two things are to be considered 1. What is meant by a false Ministerie 2. What it is to communicate in a false Ministerie In plaine and distinct dealing a false Ministery is not to be confounded with a maymed defective or impure Ministery for as the Gospel may be preached truly when it is taught impurely so may the Ministery be true for substance when it is impure in some respects But seeing in your language every unlearned scandalous negligent Minister is a false Minister and the Ministerie which he executeth is a false Ministery therefore to omit further contestation about the word It must be noted That a false Ministery is twofold 1. Absolute viz. such as is no wayes appointed of God in respect of the substance of the office whereunto he is set apart as if a Minister be called to preach pernicious and damnable doctrine or to offer Sacrifice propitiatory for quick and dead and this Ministery is a meere nullitie 2 Comparative or in some respect as that which is maymed in the qualities or care of the party chosen or designed as if a man unlearned scandalous idle be chosen if he feed not the flock or teach without power and authoritie And this Ministery is defective but of force and efficacy to the people of God for substance it is of God for the good of his flock and what is done in the administration is done by the authoritie of God but the persons themselves if in no measure qualified are not allowed and approved of God The second phrase To communicate in the false Ministery may import two things First to communicate in the sinnes of the Ministery Iniqua lex est quae se exammari non patuur Tert. in Aâ—ol Non tam vi cogere homines ad obsequium quam ratione persuadere debenteae leges quae scribuntur a pio nomotheta Dan polit Christ lib. 5. cap. 3. Course of confor pag. 149. Gratian. Decr. 1. dist 12. cap. 1. Bilson Christ Subject par 2. p. 353. 354. Quomodo vero discedimus ab impiâ—s hominibus Morum dissimilitudine Si
the mouth of one witnesse though his testimony were received yet may no man be condemned See Beza annot Maier in Matth. 18.7 both their owne and Neighbouring Churches so did the Ancients The Ordination of Bishops by themselves alone or their Chaplaines and that of many at a clap so did the Ancients The thrusting of Ministers upon the people without their knowledge or consent so did the Ancients The ordination of Ministers without cure or charge so did the Ancients The ignorance idlenesse pride luxurie pompe covetousnesse contention and schisme of such as thrust themselves rashly ambitiously profanely into offices by favour monie flatterie or other corruption so did the Ancients They reprove these and such like abuses and humbly seek and sue for reformation but tolerate what they cannot amend and hold communion with the Churches of God in the Ordinances of Religion and so did the Ancients And if the Ancients did neither lay the grounds of Separation nor walke contrary to their owne Principles in holding communion it is great ignorance at least to charge the Nonconformists as if they walked not according to their owne rules when they doe not separate Nay if the Non-conformists should not disallow both your positions and practice of Separation they should not walke agreeable to their owne Principles or the truth of Scripture For you hold the power of the keyes originaliter and executivè is given to the community of the faithfull many or few yea though but two or three joyned together in a Church way This the Nonconformists approve not You hold it is necessary and essentiall to the calling of a Minister that he be approved chosen and ordained only by that congregation where he is to administer This the Nonconformists altogether dislike You hold all Ministers that be not chosen and ordained after your forme propounded to be unlawfull Idol Antichristian Ministers This the Nonconformists judge to be Antichristian The consequence of your Positions is this That since the Church of the New Testament was established upon the earth there was scarce a true lawfull Ministerie to be found where with the faithfull might lawfully hold communion in the worship of God This the Non-conformists doe detest and abhorre Of other your positions in the Sections following SEC III. CAN. Stay against Stray Sect. 1. pag. 4 5. WHatsoever God hath bestowed upon his Church as her priviledge the same is to be found in his Word But it is not mentioned there that Beleivers as their priviledge ought to heare Antichristian Teachers The proposition is unquestionably certaine by these Scriptures Psal 19.7 2 Tim. 3.15.16 Isai 8.20 Ioh. 15.17 Act. 20.27 Besides Contra Gentes this is the unanimous consent of learned writers The Scriptures saith Athanasius doe helpe us with the knowledge of every truth c. The first part which is only controversall is evident and cleere Anno. in 1 Cor. 10. §. 21. in 1 Reg. cap 5. v. 19. by these Scriptures Levit. 17.3.4 Deut. 12.5 Prov. 5.8 Hos 4.15 Matth. 7.15 2 Cor. 7.15 16 17. Rev. 18.4 Song 1.6 7. To this all sorts of Writers assent Zanch. on Phil. 3.2 The Authors of the Admonition pag. 27 c. Yea the Papists themselves Rhemists and Doway Translators ANSWER THe sinewes of this Argument are cut already in the first Section if ever it had any and therefore a few words may now suffice In this reason you take for granted that which is most false little lesse than blasphemie to wit that all Ministers in the Church of England be Antichristian For they are in respect of the substance of their office the Ministers of Jesus Christ set apart to preach the Gospel dispense the Sacraments and administer the Discipline of the Lord Christ and many of them the approved servants of Christ furnished with gifts from above sent forth by authoritie to preach the Gospel of God and dispense his Sacraments which they faithfully execute according to commission received from their Lord and Master the King of the Church who worketh by them and blesseth their labours if ever ordinary Ministers had cause to speake of and rejoyce in the blessing of God to the praise of his name But to let that passe Antichristian Teachers if I must speak in your owne language be of divers sorts 1. Such as be not called in every point according to your platforme or at least whose calling is in any respect maymed or defective though they be godly learned painfull every way fit set apart by authority and approved by the Church If Antichristian Teachers be taken in this sense true Beleevers living in societies with them are bound to heare the Word and partake in the Sacraments because they be the ordinances of the Lord Jesus who is present knocking at the doore of the heart and will come in and sup with them that open unto him So long as wee teach the same doctrine which the Apostles did we have the same povver and authority to Preach which they had Bâ—s Chrill 〈◊〉 part 3. p. â— Look what reasons soever can be alledged to prove that Christians ought to joyne together in holy communion the same will strongly convince that ordinarily or occasionally we must hold societie with such Ministers in the ordinances of piety and godlinesse And if this Ministerie be Antichristian divers if not most worthy Martyrs of Jesus Christ that have withstood Antichrist unto blood have stood under some ordinances in their first originall Antichristian or of men in some respects which did not overthrow though it might be some blemish unto their Ministerie 2. Such as be not rightly called by men because not rightly furnished with gifts or faithfully executing their place or teaching erroneous doctrines and traditions of men but yet set apart to an office which is of God and in communion of men professing the true Faith are called Antichristian Ministers And if it be taken in this sense the faithfull are bound in conscience to heare such if they live in their societies because they be the Ministers of Christ in a sort though they be not approved of him and doe his worke for the good of them that be heires of salvation But in so doing they doe not communicate with the Ministers of Antichrists apostasie but with the Lord Christ in his holy ordinance by such meanes as he hath appointed Hieron l. 1. Com in Eph. ad Galat. cap. 1. Hierome noteth that there are foure sorts who are employed in the businesses and affaires of Almighty God The first such as are sent neither of men nor by men but by Jesus Christ The second such as are sent of God but by man The third are such as are sent of man and not of God who are they that are ordained by favour of Men not rightly judging of the quality of them who are to serve in this calling Who yet are not simply denyed to be sent of God as if they had not commission from him but
therefore only because if the choosers and ordainers had done their duties they should have made a better choice For being sent by men that have authoritie though abusing the same wee cannot say they have no true or lawfull Ministery for then were all ministration of the Sacraments and other sacred things void performed by scandalous ungodly Ministers and such as by sinister meanes get into these holy places The fourth are of such as are neither sent of God nor of men nor by men but runne of themselves and have no calling at all who are neither Ministers of Christ for themselves nor others Thus farre Hierome 3 Such are Antichristian Ministers as teach false doctrine be set apart to an office meerely of men contrary to the Word of God and live in communion and societie with men professing reall idolatrie as members of that societie though somewhat of God be joyned in this their profession Whereunto may be referred such as being tried are found to be false Prophets censured and cast out of the Church by them that have authority Of which sort are those Hereticks which are condemned of their own conscience and after once or twice admonition are to be shunned 4 Such are Antichristian as be meerely from men dispense onely the things of Antichrist and have nothing of God at all If by Antichristian Teachers be meant false Prophets Thom. Becon his humble supplicat unto God c. written in Queen Martes daies Vol. 2. Purge our temples of all Popish abominations of ceremonies of Images of Altars of Copes of Vestments of Pixes of Crosses of Censers of Holy Water buckets of holy Bread Baskets of Chismatories c. above all Idolatrous Priests and ungodly ignorant Curates Chaloner The Orig. and progr of Haeresie This change of their use by occasion of Altars and other ceremomes which crept in as also by reason of the figurative speeches of the Ancients c. produced in the end a doubt of the change of the substance c. The Pope first Breve in this third and fourth acceptation I grant the faithfull must hold no communion with them because God hath forbidden it and these are false Prophets who have no calling teach their owne dreames minister not the things of God but of men and either never were members of the true Church professing the intire faith or upon their discoverie are cast forth as unsavorie salt And this the passages of Scripture quoted to prove the controversall part as you say doe confirme Whereunto answere hath been given already And the authours of all sorts alledged doe consent for it is most manifest they speake of false Prophets who have no calling teach false doctrine were never members of the Church or springing up and continuing in the Church for a time are censured and cast out that they might not molest tare and devoure the Flock But in this sense the Ministers of the Church of England be not Antichristian that which is spoken against false Prophets cannot be applyed unto them And here consider how plentifull you are in proving that which was never questioned as that the Scripture is perfect to make the man of God wise unto salvation that false Prophets must not be heard or beleeved that the Faithfull must come out of Babylon c. But that the Ministerie of the Church of England is Antichristian and the Teachers false Prophets as the Scripture useth the word in the Texts alledged this we must take upon your bare word or most grievous misapplication of the holy Text. Paul the Fift you say in a certaine Bull sent to the Catholikes in England chargeth them by all meanes not to goe to the Parish Churches or heare their Sermons least they incurre the wrath of God If this testimony will stand in any steed the Pope himselfe doth not esteeme our Parish assemblies Antichristian for then his Catholikes should not incurre the wrath of God by going unto them And what you can gaine by this witnesse I know not unlesse it be to shew that how contrary soever you seeme to be unto the Pope or Antichrist yet in this you consent and agree with him to condemne Christian communiâ—â—â—â—â— in our Assemblies in the holy exercises of Religion CAN. 〈◊〉 p 6 〈…〉 to it 〈…〉 bring 〈…〉 himselves undâ—â— greater curse by using their to agues and pens to raise up againe one part of the Kingdome of the Beast which the Lord before had consumed with the breath of his mouth Nay the sentence of the Pope is milde in comparison of that brand which you set upon communicating the ordinances of God in our assemblies viz. That it tendeth to the putting down of our true King Christ Jesus and to raise up Antichrist againe that bloody Tyrant which bold ignorant censure must needs worke the soule of every sober minded Christian to suspect that in defence of this cause you consulted with furie more than with truth and hoped to winne more with swelling words of vanity than weight of reason But my purpose is to try your strength and for unadvised censures vaine scoffes and mis-application of common received Truths I will leave you to the examination of your owne conscience SECT IV. CAN. Stay against Sect. 3. pag. 16 17. Sect. 2. pag. 14 Sect. 4. pag. 62. Sect. 7. pag. 89. TO worship God in any other way or manner than he hath in his Word prescribed is unlawfull But to heare Antichristian Ministers in false Churches is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed The Major No man dares denie I assure my selfe For it is manifest and certaine by the whole course of the Scripture Deut. 12.8 Levit. 10.20 Psal 119.133 Mic. 7.18 Hos 9.15 Ioh. 4.23 Matth. 15.3.4 Col. 2.8 2 Joh. 16.17 Moreover all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this for a Truth Zanch. explic in Coloss 2.23 tom 4. pag. 319. Luther com in Galat. cap. 6. pag. 871. Brent in Amos. cap. 4. Touching the second part J may spare all proofs and send them to their own consciences That this hearing is a worship the same is manifest and cleere to any that have an eye of reason Howson serm in Psal 118. p. 7. and any light of Religion shining in them None to my knowledge saving a Popish Parasite or two ever held otherwise That this worship is done in a way and manner which the Lord never appointed it is as cleere as the Sun at noon day and cannot with any modest face be denyed c. ANSWER THis is an old garment new turned and the same answer which was made to the former might suffice to this wherein the thing to be proved Bâ—ls Christ. subj part 4 p. 345. God hath not charged us to be curious in searching his Essence but to be carefull in observing his Will He neither takes nor requires any thing at our hands beside his Worship That it we yeeld him according to his Will we
the Altar is put for Christ in the Ancients Ignat. ad Magnesian To one Altar to one Lord Iesus Christ Ad Philadel one Altar to all the Church Iren. adv haeres l 4 ca. 34. est Ergo Altare in caelis Euseb Hist lib. 10. cap. 4. and the flesh of the peace-offering But that all Ordinances of the Church done out of a true constituted Church in your sense should be altogether unlawfull or that the Ordinances are tyed to your Church constitution as the Sacrifices were to the Temple that we reade not and how then shall we be perswaded of it Remember your owne request Let the Scripture speake in the points betweene us for without it nothing is to be affirmed and beyond it nothing to be concluded Principally of old the Temple shaddowed Christ in and through whom we must present our service unto God and then the Church of Christians but that the externall constitution of a Congregationall societie is represented thereby in such sort as if it be thus or thus constituted it should be lawfull to joyne with them but if this or that externall rite be lacking it should be unlawfull to joyne in the worship of God is most unprobable In all ages the Lord hath had his Church in which he hath beene worshipped But evermore the faithfull were not to bring their sacrifices to the Tabernacle or Temple And if the Lord had chosen not that place for sacrifice other service pleasing and acceptable might and ought to bee performed in other places Therefore that Sacrifices should prefigure all Ordinances and exercises of the Christian Church Fulke in Matth. 23. Sect. 7. The Lords Altar that was in the Temple was a figure of Christs onely true sacrifice once offered Bishop Babin comfort notes upon Exod. 27. and the Tabernacle and Temple the externall frame and constitution of a Church is an unwritten tradition It is more reasonable a great deale to compare the externall frame of the Iewish Church with the outward order which God hath instituted for the Evangelicall Churches and worship with worship substance of Religion with substance and then it will follow that as the faithfull and religious Iewes might and ought to hold societie in the Ordinances of Religion when many things were amisse in the externall frame and constitution of the Church as the Priests idle covetous prophane the people dissolute impenitent rebellious so the faithfull in the Christian Church must hold Communion in the Ordinances of Grace though in the constitution of the Church the Officers and members much be out of order Doway annot in 3. booke of Kings pag. 7 15. The Doway glosse hath much more probbaility than yours To conserve unity say they there was but one Tabernacle one Altar for sacrifice in the whole people of Israel Wherupon when the two tribes and an halfe on the other side Iordan had made a severall Altar all the Tribes that dwelt in Canaan suspecting it was for Sacrifice sent presently to admonish them Aug. Epist 48 Quis non impudentissemè c. vid page seq Omnis ea distinctio in re Theologica est inanis fictio quae ex Dei mentiri nescis authoritate non accipitur quaeque rem ipsam de qua agitur tollit c. Martin de persona Christ page 632. c. but what end shall we have if every man upon his owne head may devise or Coyne significations of Gods Ordinances What is this but to bring in a new word to set up Sacraments upon our own heads Herein we say to you and them as you to your opposite I require the voyce of the Shepheard Read it mee out of the Prophets Shew it mee out of the Psalmes c. In the interpretation of the Types and Figures of the Law mens judgements if the Scripture goe not before them are of small credit Can. Stay Sect. 3. Pag. 20.21 If that be true in the Philosopher Opposit a sunt simul natura Arist Topic l. b. 6. Bonum est cujus contrarium est malum Rhetor. l. 1. If vvee take a strâ—ct vievv and enquirie of that Ministery Worship and Government vvhich they left at Dan Bethel it will appear evidently that the same was not more salfe idolatrous and unlawful than the present Ministerie worship and Government of the English Assemblies is by the Non-conformists affirmed to be Jeroboams Apolog in his Arrovv against Idolatry CAN Necess of Sep. p. 85.86 87 88. Course of Comfor p. 161.162 Opposite things in nature are alike Againe That is good whose contrary is evill It must needs followes that as some Churches are visibly true in respect of faith and order so others may bee true too having outward order albeit the members thereof have no faith at all The which assertion is not to bee answered but abhorred The tenne Tribes which departed from the Lord from his Temple Sacrifices Priests Altar and other holy signes of his presence at Ierusalem from the time and still after were not Gods Church so the Scriptures shew Hos 2.2 and 2 Chron. 15.3 Ier. 3.8 Amos 9.7 c. And the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethel were not in respect of faith and Doctrine more corrupt than the other now is Mr. Amsworth and the Non conformists affirme that the Apostate Iewes could justifia their way and course of Religion as well if not better than the other ANSWER The Philosophicall Maxime to which you have reference is Arist. de Caelo lib. 2. cap. 3. Text. 19. Posito une contrariorum ponitur alterum But as you cite it It is as hard to be found as your translation is to be understood That it is not universall appeareth out of Arist himselfe who putteth down the contrary Maxime as true and certaine Arist Gategor l. c. 11 de contrar Non necessarium est Si contrariorum alterum sit alterum esse Nam si omnes sint sanitas quidem erit morbus non erit So in the first Creation of all things all things were very good and there was nothing evill All things created are finite in act but amongst things created there neither is nor can be a naturall infinite Truth and false-hood good and evill Piety and Idolatry are opposite and that before ever false-hood evill or Idolatry had any being in the world Contraries we know expell one another Or if one be necessary in the subject the other cannot be in it at least in the intense degree as if fire be hot it cannot be cold Now it is necessary that every thing created be finite and good as created and therefore good had a being before evill If it be objected that opposites are relatives and relatives are together in nature the answer is they are relatives secundum dici as they speake not secundum esse which may bee said to be together in nature Not that both are in act existent out of their causes but because the nature of
vvhat need is there to lay dovvne their false office I cannot say of this mans Logicke as Aristotle did of Theodorus his making Epithites It is his vvhole art CAN. Stay p. 27. that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time provided hee onely teach the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then hee sinneth not and so consequently no just cause of his comming out from among them ANSWER Ill might you twit your adversarie with his little skill in Logicke unlesse it was done in policie to hide your own loosenes in this and the like arguments For though it be not an Idolatrous act to preach the truth of the Gospell in a false Church in other respects it may be sinne to continue a member in that societie and so also to teach the Gospels Truths As it may be scandalous and offencive an appearance of evill A man may doe that whereunto he is not called from an evill mind Also it may bee sinne to continue in a false Church though a man teach nothing but the truth of the Gospell because he cannot professe all maine and fundamentall truths or that border thereupon nor testifie against all corruptions grosse haereticall reallie Idolatrous which in Conscience cannot bee tolerated or borne withall without grosse hypocrisie or dissimulation or hee cannot keep himselfe from the tincture of Idolatrie in practicâ— As for example though it be not an Idolatrous act for a Popish Priest to preach the Gospell or administer the Sacraments of Baptisme yet it is not lawfull for a Christian to remaine as a member in that society because he cannot partake with them in the Ordinances but he shall commit reall Idolatrie or must dissemble many grievous and hatefull abominations which cannot bee dissembled and shall bee thought to bee of the same Religion with them or of no Religion c. The multitude of Authors which you quote against hearing false Prophets or continuing in false Churches doe they not give other reasons why wee ought to separate from them or doth any one ever lay this down as a truth or foundation of separation In the page following you alledge sixe reasons which you say may bee applyed against the going with others to an Idol ministerie Church or worship c. But if they bee of any strength this reason whereof now wee speake is nought worth for they are directly crosse Here you say If in preaching the truth of the Gospell he doe no Idolatrous act he sinneth not but there you say he sinneth many other wayes But in all this you take that for granted which we confidently denie sc That our Churches worship or Ministerie is false and Idolatrous And therefore taking the proposition in your sense we say It is not only lawfull but necessary to remaine Ministers or members of some Churches which lye under your censure as false and Idolatrous but indeed are the true Ministers and Churches of Iesus Christ graced with his presence covered with his banner and beautified with his Ordinances and tokens of love And that which you call an unblessed standing wee make no question but it is approved and blessed of Christ and therefore regard your reviling the lesse Can. Stay Sect. 5. Pag. 73. If a man performe an action in a state and of publike nature he is to be considered in respect of himselfe as is that state and according to the publike Ordinances For if the state be false and the officer unlawfull it is familisme for him to say I know this state is set up against the Lord Iesus Christ and every commer here to worship according to the constitution is an Idolater but I will have in my selfe a secret meaning from the rest Id. page 77. Seeing false Churches and false Ministers are reall Idols set up by earthly Princes c. Whosoever comes and bovves before those Idols cannot escape the just blame of Idolatry Id. pag. 73. This is a sure thing and let it bee noted No administration performed in a state and by a power and constituted office can be sought desired and received but in so doing the doer ipso facto really approves of that state power and office bee the same lawfull or unlawfull And as for any mans saying to the contrary it is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne Head and will prove as good as the miracles which Iannes and Iambres wrought even meanes to harden his owne heart and some others as they did Pharaohs by doing them ANSWER You say it is an easie thing to Conquer CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 66. Wee are no such Children as to give the cause so avvay CAN. Necess of sep p. 226. But this vvee cannot give him though hee begge it shamefully because the thing is othervvise as their ovvne vvritings manifest CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 74. Calfeh against Mart art 3. page 86. if begging might procure it and if confident assertions will carrie a matter you will not goe without it But we must not be driven from the Church the Ordinances and worship of God communion with Christ and societie of Saints by an emptie blast of words No though you shamefully boast you have proved it by our owne writings Doe you thinke your bold impudent asseveration that any mans saying to the contrarie is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne head will make us by and by yeeld to your definitive sentence for which you can produce neither Scripture nor reason nor authoritie but your owne as if your ipse dixit Pope-like were to be rested in Wee are no such Children We are not to be feared with rattles You must bring better matter than your vaine fictions and sounder proofe than vaine repetitions of the same things over and over or else you must expect small credit to bee given unto your words They that joyn together in the worship of God Ambr. in Luk. 6. c. 9. Fides Ecclesiae imprimis quaerenda in quâ si Christus habitator sit haud dubiè legenda c. sed siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuat nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat ne quam labem perfidiae posâ—it aspergere deserenda est Sadeel de legit Minist vocat p. 6. Aug. Ex. 166. Our heavenly Master gave us vvarning before hand to make the people secure touching evill overseers lest for their sakes the chaire of vvholesome doctrine should be forsaken And Tract in Ioh. 46. The Lords fold hath some overseers that bee Children some that be hirelings ordinances of Religion they approve the faith protessed in points fundamentall the worship performed for the substance Ordinances administred and the truth of Ministerie for substance whereby these things are dispensed For of necessitie if the doctrine of salvation be restored the lawful use of the ministery is restored also Where God is truelie called upon in the Congregation and the Sacraments
of God 2. Their qualification for this office their care in execution and other accessories which may be added of man If for substance of office their calling be of God wee are bound to hold communion with them though in the qualification execution and other adhering circumstances some things bee amisse which it is not in our power to redresse This our Saviour Christ hath expressely taught and made knowne unto uâ— both by his Doctrine and example as hath beene shewed already Hereunto this one thing may be added that many Pastors and teachers in the Church of England be called qualified and doe carry themselves in their charges and places according to the direction of IESVS CHRIST the chiefe shepheard of his sheepe and other for substance of Ministery are Pastors and Teachers CAN Stay Sect. 6. pag 79. If to heare Antichristian Ministers bee to serve God in and by an Ordinance If in preaching the truths of the Gospel in a false Church no Idolatry bee done then may a man vvorship God in a vvay of his ovvne devising blamelesse Id. §. 5. page 77. way or institution devised by Idolaters and with Idolaters then it is unlawfull But the first is true Therefore the second The proposition is undeniable by the Treatisers owne confession you should have said the assumption for if the Treatisers words prove ought they must be applyed thereunto As for the proposition they speake not to it at all But forwardnesse here and in many other places hath made you forget your tearmes of Art He that heares the Ministers of the Bishops sending and of the Parishes sent to he heares in the sense of the Scripturs false Prophets Id page 81. Such as hearken to Antichrists Ministers do therein approve of Antichrists unlavvfull povver over the false Church and the Divels donation or his putting of that povver into his eldest sonâ— hâ—nd Id. §. 6. p. 84. But it is not lawfull to heare false Prophets The Major is proved clearly in defencâ— of our twelfth objection The Minor is certaine by these reasons 1. The hearing of false Prophets is forbidden in the word of God c. ANSWER You busie your selfe to weave the Spiders web which is good for little long in weaving but soone swept downe Our Ministers be not Antichristian Ministers nor false Prophets in the Scriptures sense because they preach the whole counsell of God in all points necessary to salvation and rightly dispense the seales of the Covenant by authoritie derived from Jesus Christ the Lord and King oâ— his Church the great Shepheard of his Sheep At least they are set apart to this office which was never deemed Antichristian in the Church of Christ But if we take these words Antichristian Ministers and false Prophets in your sense for you use them in a peculiar dialect then it is not only lawfull but necessary to heare such as you call Antichristian Ministers For it is commanded in the word and acceptable service unto God the meanes to build up the Church It is to hold communion with God to reverence his name to lay hold upon Christ and lodge him in our bosome It sheweth that a man is one of Christs sheep because hee heareth his voice and a member of his sheepfold the servant of the most high God it manifesteth love and zeale to God and is ordinarily blessed to the soul and conscience of the dutifull hearer And in that which you alledge to the contrary you misalledge Scripture speak evill of the truth revile the heritage of the Lord and grievously wound your owne conscience The religion professed and worship performed in our assemblies is true not only in respect of the object but of nature use and end and whatsoever circumstances are necessarilie required to lawfull worship And the false Prophets mentioned in Scripture are of one sort yours of an other even the true Ministers of Jesus Christ But let us turne over to the twelvth objection to heare the cleare proofe of that which here you affirme for thither you send us CAN Stay §. 12. p. 116 117. The Treatiser as you call him propounding this objection of yours that the Scriptures of the old and new Testament warne Gods people of false prophets which the Ministers of that Church are having an unlawfull calling maketh answer 1 By denying that the Scriptures warn men simply not to hear false Prophets i.e. any false prophet whatsoever And then propounds a distinction of fals Prophets that some fals Prophets were in the Church of God and these might be heard as they had place in the Church till they were orderly repressed or at least discovered others were not in the Church but simply without and these were not to be heard This is the plaine and direct answer of the Treatiser as every man may perceive that is not grosly ignorant or wilfully blind But see how you jest and dally with it unconscionably when you had nothing to answer 1. You say he peremptorily denyeth the whole objection and so consequently affirmes that all false Prophets may be heard But what new Logicke is this whereby we may learne to draw such consequences In former times it hath beene thought reasonable to deny an universall negative or affirmative proposition when they hold not true in all Individuals No false prophet is to be heard This proposition may justly be benyed if any false Prophet may be heard though all might not 2 You adde presently and with the same breath He unsaith what hee said before But this is a palpable and grosse calumny For he said not that all false Prophets might be heard by all nor denyeth what hee granted at the first that some may be heard but plainly implyeth a distinction of false Prophets which I can hardly thinke you did not perceive though you be pleased so to pervert his words If there appeare any deep and inextricable riddle in the words you may fitly apply to your selfe what in this very place you report of Marcus Antonius's souldiers who unawares fell upon an hearb that greatly distempered their heads You tell us Id pag. 116. The Treatiser since he lighted upon his Gourd he is not like himselfe in his other writings and I can easily believe it for in his other writings for separation he is insolent censorious scornfull and slighty In this mild Christian and for the most part more substantiall As you deale with your Treatiser to scorne what you cannot answer so you doe with others in this very argument and that much more absurdlie Master Br. in maintenance of the Ministerie of the Church of England The unreasonab of separation p. 2 3 4 7. as it is established by Law distinguisheth betweene the substance of the Ministerie and the execution thereof the essentiall parts of the Ministery and some accidentall circumstances adhering unto them by man For substance saith he the present Ministerie of our Church assemblies is the very Ministerie which Christ hath set in
no this is evident your inferences in this point are not correspondent to their Principles nor can be deduced from them as in the beginning you promised And then upon what bottome doth this reason stand or by what prop is it underset but your own bare affirmation which is much too weake to beare so great a weight Whosoever meanes z Can. Neces of Separat pag. 210. you say to settle well the conscience especially in a maine point of faith and Religion ought necessarily to bring good proofes from Scripture for the things whereof he speaketh For otherwise men must give no trust unto his words or if they doe it must be unadvisedly And what thinke you then if men upon your bare word give credit unto this argument is it not unadvised You bid a Bilson difference part 1. pag. 20. What we say without proofe reject you without answer If that rule may stand we need no further confutation of the rest of your Apologie for there besides taunts termes I see nothing prove the contrary if any man be able But that is not to ground the conscience upon Gods truth If your assertion be not taught in holy Scripture it is an unwritten tradition an humane invention a dreame of your owne in your conceit false worship and flat Idolatry though your opposites be able to say nothing against it but this that it is not taught of God What the Nonconformists will say to this argument you know not but hitherto they have said nothing or as good as nothing It is well you say not both Propositions are theirs as you doe in the former with as little truth as if you had said it here But if you had perused their writings against Separation as you have observed what sharp words they let fall against the corruptions in our Church and Liturgie you might have knowne that they say somewhat and somewhat to the purpose not worthy your answer but what can never be truly answered First Discipline they say is taken two wayes First Largely for the whole order pertaining to the gathering and governing of a Church the ordering of divine worship and manner of men And in this sense b Bilson perpet Ch. govern cap. 1. pag. 3. Order and Discipline the very nurse and mother of all peace and quietnesse as well in divine as in humane Societies assemblies though it be not the life or spirit that quickneth the Church yet doth it fasten and knit the members thereof as joynts and sinewes do the parts of our bodies Id. ca. 9. The Gospell must be preached the Sacramēts must be frequented for which purpose some must be taken to the publique service and ministery of the Church c. Neither onely the lack of the Word and Sacraments but the prophanation and abuse of either how greatly doth it endanger the state and welfare of the whole Church of Christ yea the casting of holy things to dogs and of pearles before swine how dreadfull a judgement doth it procure as well to the consenters as presumers A little Leaven sowreth the whole masse So that power to send Labourers into Gods harvest and to separate prophane persons for defiling the mysteries and assemblies of the faithfull must be retained and used in the Church of Christ unlesse we will turne the house of God into a den of theeves c. Act. 2.41 42.44 45 46 47. 11.20 21.26 13.43.48 14.1.21 22 23. Discipline is neither the matter nor forme of the Church but an inseparable propertie and so there can be no Church without some Discripline Secondly It is taken strictly for the administration of the censures in which sense it is not absolutely necessary to the being but to the well-being and safetie of the Church Secondly They answer that by divine right the power of the keyes is given to every compleat Apostolicall Church but the execution of this power may be wanting either through their negligence or because they are hindred as in Sardis Thyatira Ephesus c. And this is to the purpose for the Question is of the power to execute the Discipline of Christ and not of the simple right to execute it And in your opinion the execution of Discipline is absolutely necessary to the being of the Church without which it can neither be gathered nor subsist Take your owne comparison unlesse the body doe both receive food and purge out excrements it is not possible it should subsist and live If therefore Sardis Pergamus Thyatira c. continued the true Churches of Christ when the greater sort would not and the better could not purge out excrements or all were grossely negligent it followeth that the execution of discipline or power to execute discipline is not absolutely necessary to the being of the Church Thirdly The Church of England wanteth not the discipline of Christ for substance either in respect of right or execution though it be not administred as it ought These are the Answers which they give and they are too heavie to be spurned away with scorne when ever you shall try their weight Thus I might dismisse your first band as being put to flight already But I will spend a little time to examine both propositions And for the first it is to be noted that the word Church to let passe other significations is taken First For the communitie of the faithfull few or many two three or more men or women without guides or officers for beleevers dispersed and scattered by persecution spoyled of their guides or such as being newly called never had guides set over them are yet the true Church of Christ Secondly The societie of the faithfull joyning together in the ordinances of worship under a lawfull Pastour is a true Church though defective in many officers and ordinances required to the perfection of the Church Thirdly A c Bilson ibid. ca. 1. The internall regiment that God hath by his Spirit and truth in the hearts of the faithfull is the true kingdom of christ cannot be varied is not questioned in the Church of England But there is a necessitie also of externall goverment which respecteth the appointing of meete men and repelling of unmeete to be trusted with the heavenly treasures of the Word and Sacraments As also the good using and right dividing of so precious Iewells committed to their charge competent number of faithfull people joyned in societie under lawfull Pastours Teachers and Elders to watch over rule feed and guide them in the waies of God are a true and compleat constituted Church of Jesus Christ The word Discipline also is used two wayes as hath been said First In a larger sense as comprehending all order and behaviour concerning a Church in outward duties and so among the rest the daily planting and building by the calling and offering of the Word by the Ministers and the hearing receiving and obeying by the people As military discipline is put for the whole art or manner of
what if you doe not reade that Diotrephes was an unlawfull and Antichristian Minister you reade that he usurped over the faithfull hindred the due execution of Church-censures abused excommunication prated against the Brethren and practised a false government And if the want of discipline or neglect of due execution prove a Church to be no Church the faithfull in that societie were bound to separate If the Church had not the power of government at this time if we may beleeve you or receive your position they were no church if they had power in their hands and suffered it to be abused their sinne was the greater And if you take a view of your dealings in this or other particulars vilifying what you are not able to confute and wresting mens words contrary to their plaine meaning if your paper blush not I can hardly thinke but your conscience will smite SECT II. IF the Church of England hath not Christs keyes Can. Neces of Separat pag. 154. shee is not his saith Mr D. But the Church of England hath not Christs keyes saith Mr Brightman and y Syons plea. 111. others Therefore shee is not his house and consequently to be separated from ANSVVER YOur former reasons out of Mr D. I passe over because they have been answered already and are here thrust in to no purpose but onely to cover the insufficiency of your reply His answer was the want of discipline though an integrall part is no sufficient ground of separation This z Can. Neces of Separat p. 152 153. you offer not to disprove by any substantiall reason but with railing and reproach to disgrace wherein whether you more wound your own conscience or hurt your adversary be judge your selfe a Can. Neces of Separat pag. 212. 1 Pet. 3.9 Rom. 13.21 You say truely It is a Christian part not to render rebuke for rebuke and a thousand times better were it to sustaine even a legion of reproaches than for a man by turning though but one to give cause of suspition that evill hath got some part of conquest over him But if you looke into your own writings you shall finde them stuffed with insolent boasting scornfull taunts and reproaches unbeseeming your place person and a good cause I dare say all the Nonconformists that ever wrote in the cause of discipline never went in practise so much against their Principles as you in this one particular goe against your profession in the foresaid passage and a good conscience The matter in hand betwixt you and Mr D. is the absolute necessitie of Church-discipline to the being of a Church To what end then doe you bring That the Book of common-prayer used in the Assemblies of England is an infectious Liturgie Romish-stuffe a devised service raked out of three Romish Channells That the Ministery of the Church of England is unlawfull and Antichristian That the Ministery worship and government of of England are corruptions Doth this make ought to confirme your position or weaken the answer which was truely given But some thing must be said whether to or besides the purpose it matters not Another stratageme b Can. Neces of Separat pag. 153. you put in practice in the same place not very commendable You would seeme to confute the D. out of himselfe What say you if it appeare that Mr D. arguments doe lead rather to separation and that he speaketh one thing and practiseth another would not this be a strange sight especially to himselfe Now whether this be so we will here try by some reasons in his owne moode and figure But though the moode and figure be his the reasons be your owne and not his and the conclusions unjustly drawne from the Premises as the D. answered and we have shewed before Perhaps in warre stratagems may be of use but in the cause of God such cunning devices are dangerous symptoms This I note to entreat your serious reexamination of what you have done and now I come to the argument here propounded whereunto I make answer as you relate it for I have not the D. Booke to search out what he hath written The power of the keyes is twofold Concioualis Judicialis as it is usually called The first consists in the preaching of the Gospell wherein the kingdome of heaven is opened to the penitent sinnes remitted life promised and heaven shut to the obstinate which is the sword and the scepter of Christ whereby he saveth his people 2 Cor. 1.21 2 Cor. 10.4 Isa 11.4 Rom. 1.16 and conquereth his enemies beateth downe every strong hold pâ—ireeth to the division of foule and spirit and of the joynts and marrow and judgeth the very cogitations and thoughts of the heart These effects Christ executeth by his Word even when it is not assisted by the c To excommunicate is to remove the wicked irrepentant from participation of the Lords Supper least by sacrilegious presuming to violate that Table the ungodly should condemne themselves and defile others Bilson perpet gov cap. 9. discipline spoken of Now if it be rightly understood the Church of God cannot be without this key For the Church is gathered by the Word and is a company or societie which hath received the Word in profession at least and doth possesse it and amongst whom it dwelleth The Judiciall power of the d Excommunication is a meere spirituall punishment reacheth no further by Gods word than to take from offenders the remission of their sinnes by wanting the Word and Sacraments untill they repent Bilson Christian. part 3. pag. 52. keyes is the power of government which consisteth principally in the right ordering and dispensation of Church censures and so of the manners and necessities of all men which agreeth not to any one member nor to the communitie of the faithfull nor to any one singular governour but to the Ecclesiasticall Senate yet with due respect had to the communitie of the faithfull In the first sense the Church of England hath the power of the keyes e Cyp. lib. 1. epist 3. I hardly perswade the people yea I am forced to wrest it from them before they will suffer such to be admitted Bilson perpet gov c. 9. Great reason had those godly Fathers to see the whole Church satisfied before they released the sentence of excommunication c. and so doing they shewed not what right the multitude had to sit Iudges with the Bishop but what â—â—e themselves had to remove from the people all occasions of stumbling Id. pag. 113. If you take Excommunication for removing the unruly from the civill societie of the faithfull untill they conforme themselves unto a more Christian course of life I am not altogether averse that the whole Church should concurre in that action c. See August contr Par Ep. 1 l. 2. ca. 1. Can. Stay Sect. 12. pag. 123. not so much as is to be desired but in an eminent sort and that with Gods
that clause you greatly wrong the Nonconformists and reformed Churches in charging them with this position For it is their direct assertion to the contrary that for want of orderly administration of discipline Christians are not to separate from the true and sound Churches of Jesus Christ Your phrase likewise of placing themselves about the throne of God is in no sort approved of them or of the truth it selfe As if none were placed about the throne of God or God did not graciously vouchsafe his presence unto or reigne over any assembly wherein discipline is not rightly and orderly in all points administred But here it must be noted that the power of government must be considered either in respect of the substance of it or the orderly manner of administration as was said before And a thing or office is called Antichristian in two respects First as whatsoever is not of Christ is Antichristian in which sense they of the Separation call all stinted Liturgies Antichristian Secondly as that which is derived from the authoritie and headship of the great Antichrist of Rome and dependeth upon him as his owne institution is Antichristian And to apply these things to the purpose if we take the word Antichristian in the first signification the true Church of God may be under Antichristian government in respect of the manner of dispensation of the censures that is the dispensation of the censures may be committed to such persons as are not instituted approved and set apart of Christ for that purpose and in such manner As if it be committed to an usurped power over the Brethren or to some few of many or to such as be ignorant prophant or the like It is true the light hath no fellowship with darknesse nor truth with falshood but in this life light in men is miked with darknesse and the best Christians infected with errours of Antichristianisme In many of the Martyrs of Jesus Christ both before since the revelation of Antichrist their knowledge was mingled with more darknesse and their Christianitie with more antichristianisme if you will so call it than can be found in our Church and Ministery Jos 5.7.9 See Iun. annot It is true the faithfull must labour every one in his place to bring in the ordinances of God and reforme abuses but if they cannot prevaile they must not cut themselves off from the body and excommunicate the societie For if the Church may want yea neglect the use of the Sacraments for a time and yet continue the true g Hieron in Tit. 1. Amb. in 1 Tim. 5. Bils perpet c. 11. Gratian. Decret cap. 15. qu. 7. ca. 2.5 6 7. Concil Turon 2. c. 7. Nic. Abbas Panor in decret Gregor 9. de consuetud cap. 4. Olim presbyteri in communi regebant ecclesiā ordinabant Sacerdotes Cypr. epist 6. or lib. 3. epist 10. lib. 1. epist 9. Concil Carthag 4. ca. 23. Tho. 1. 〈◊〉 qu. 71. art 5. ad tertium Bonav in 1 sent dist 48. art 2. qu. 1. in resol Scor. in 3 sent dist 9. qu. unica n. 4. Church of God then it may want the orderly use of discipline in respect of the officers by whom and the manner how it should be duely exercised For the politicall guiding of a Church by the censuring discipline is not to be compared to the want neglect of the Seales If the Church shall thinke good to keepe in a member which some private man judgeth worthy to be excommunicated must he cut off himselfe or cast out the offender contrary to the order If the Power of government be exercised by the whole body of the Societie which I conceive to belong onely to the Colledge Ecclesiasticall must I needs separate from them as no Church of Christ Affirmative precepts binde perpetually but not to all times to disposition and readinesse alwayes but to practice onely when time place and opportunitie occurreth For example a man is ever obliged to thinke the truth if he know it but not either to professe or speake the truth at all times Of affirmative duties some are absolutely necessary in men of age and discretion without which there can be no salvation as beliefe in Christ and repentance from dead works Others are necessary when God giveth h Neither doe I know what warrant any ordinary Minister hath by Gods word in such a case so to draw any such Church or people to his private ministry that therby they should hazzard their outward state quiet in the Common-wealth where they live when in some cōpetent measure they may publikely with the grace and the favour of the Magistrate injoy the ordinarie means of their salvation Vnreasona c. pag. 61. Aug. epist contr Parm. lib. 3. cap. 2. Bezacontr Eras de Excom Feild of the Ch◠lib. 1. cap. 17. Eccl. Lugdun lib. de tenenda verit script post medium in Biblioth patr tom 4. par 2. edit 4. opportunitie and calleth a man forth thereunto as profession of the faith by joyning our selves to the Church of God and partaking of the Sacraments Others oblige in a time free which doe not oblige in a time not free as when urgent necessitie the circumstance of time and place the state and condition of things doe restraine and keepe backe As the exercise of Ecclesiasticall discipline against open obstinâte offenders is an affirmative dutie imposed by divine law upon the Governours of the Church or as you say upon the whole Societie But it lyeth not upon this or that particular member to doe it or separate when others be remisse and either be not perswaded of or doe neglect their dutie and will not be drawne unto it They be not of the lowest ranke who thinke it may and ought to be forborne when it cannot be used without open and unavoidable schisme When a doctrinall errour of lesse importance and small evill consequence prevaileth in a Church by publique authoritie it is not the dutie of a private Teacher publiquely to strive against it to manifest apparent schismes but rather in a milde and peaceable manner to cure them and peaceably to tolerate some things when the good of Gods Church doth call for and require it Who doth not calmely and peaceably moderate that which he thinketh but is readie incontinent to contentions dissentions and scandals although he have not an hereticall sense most certainly he hath an hereticall minde And though the i The Apostleanever erected planted publike Churches and Ministers in the face of the Magistrate whether they would or no or in despite of them But such in respect of the eye of the Magistrate were as private as might be Vnreasonablenesse of Separat pag. 59. Government of the Church dependeth upon the ordinance of God yet it is not for every particular and private man to set up that order in societies professing the faith publiquely and established by Law against the mind and pleasure of the Christian Magistrate And
time a 〈◊〉 in the Laâ—â—d with whom they 〈◊〉 not have 〈◊〉 covenant it is probable if they had beene grosse Idolaters without all knownledge of the true religion 〈◊〉 King of 〈…〉 his fault carried himself 〈…〉 businesse of Abraham as a man not altogether destitute of the true stare of God That the true Religion was maintained in the family of Shâ—â— is acknowledged by all sorts but in that family it was greatly corrupted for the Scripture testifieth that 〈◊〉 the father of Abraham and the father of Nachor and Abraham himself before his calling served other Gods Jâ—sh 24.2 The Church of God did spread in the family of Abraham to whom God gave Circumcision as the seale of the righteousnesse of faith but the members thereof were as well they that were bought with his money as they that were borne in his house For so we reade that God commanded and Abraham tooke Ismael his sonne and all that were borne in his house and all that were bought with his money that is every man childe among the men of Abrahams house and he circumcised the foreskin of their flesh Not onely Abraham and his seede but all that lawfully appertained unto him and were in his power did partake of the seale of the covenant as such as formerly had been or now were received into covenant And by analogie we may gather that not onely the children of beleeving parents but of Infidels if they come lawfully into the power and hand of Christians to be trained and brought up by them in the Christian faith ought to be admitted into Baptisme Now in what sense Ismael and some others in Abrahams family might be esteemed holy 〈◊〉 others judge Esau was a member of Isaacs family which was the visible Church of God in those times Gen. 25.31 32 33. Heb. 12.19 after that he had sold sold his birth right for a â—esse of pottage and many other wayes had discovered himselfe so to walke as a man could hardly judge him to be truely holy Gen. 35.22 49.3 4 5 6 7. 34.25 38.25 26. The family of Jacob was received into covenant according to the pleasure and dispensation of God and all his sonnes were members of the visible Church when foule offences were amongst them unrepented of Gen. â—7 2 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 detrâ—â—â— eos crimine malo Not to mention the facts of Ruben Simon and Levi and Jâ—dah it is noted of the sonnes of Zilpah and â—ilkah that they runne into slander whereof we cannot thinke they repeated suddenly Joseph his Brethren conceived such hatred against him that they first conspired to kill him but changing their minds therein they sold him unto the Isâ—elites The whole body of Israel was a peculiar people Lev. 20.24 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of whom every one was by the word of God separated into the covenant of mercy and if the whole Nation was the people of God every particular person in that Nation did stand under the same relation But what the state and condition of that people was when they were admitted into Church covenant wee may learne from the holy Scripture When I passed by thee I saw thee polluted in thine owne bloud Ezek. 16.6.8 and I said unto thee when thou wast in thy bloud Thou shalt live even when thou wast in thy bloud I said unto thee Thou shalt live Now when I passed by thee and looked upon thee behold thy time was as the time of love and I spread my skirts over thee and covered thy filthinesse yea I sware unto thee and entred into covenant with thee 1 Reg. 8.53 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith the Lord God and thou beâ—amest 〈◊〉 When God brought Israel out of Aegypt by the hand of Moses his servant he separated them to himselfe from among all the people of the earth Act. 7.38 for an inheritance and every singular person in that huge multitude was a visible member of that Church Exod. 32.8 9.22 Deut. 4.3 9.7 8. Psal 106.7.13 14.19 2â— 28 Num. 14.22 Act. 7.39 40 41 42. Amos. 5.25 26. Josh 5.7 8 9. Deut. 29.4 and all of them by profession Saints or holy the flock of God But oftentimes they sinned and rebelled against the Lord being a stubborne and stiffe-necked people uncircumcised in heart unbeleeving forgetfull of Gods workes despising his covenant idolatrous which had neither eyes to see nor eares to heare nor an heart to under stand And what probabilitie is there that this whole people was truely holy in the judgement of charitie or so faâ—re as man can judge or that they ceased to be the Church of God when they had grossely corrupted their wayes If the true Church be gathered of Saines onely externally and so 〈◊〉 as man 〈◊〉 judge and of them alone framed at of the subject 〈◊〉 which is onely true whilest it 〈…〉 such and false when it degenerateâ— from this dispositionâ— and so as 〈◊〉 and pâ—â—trified stuffe to 〈◊〉 cast out of the 〈◊〉 let it be considered how the Congregation in the Wildernesse could be the true Church of God which so oft 〈◊〉 Act. 7.38 and in many particular sinned against the Lord. It is more true Exod. 24.3.7 the Church and every member thereof outred into Covenant either expresly or implicitely to take God for their God and to keepe the words of the Covenant and doe them to seeke the Lord with all their hearts and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse Deut. 29.4 But Moses saith of them that entred into Covenant that they had not eyes to see nor eares to heare nor an heart to understand and with many of them God was displeased because they obeyed not his vâ—â—yâ—e Deut. 29.10 11 12. Yee stard this day all of you saith Moses before the Lord your God your Captaines of Tribes your Elâ—â—ers and your Officers with all the men of Israell your little ones your â—ives and thy stranger that is in thy Caâ—p from the 〈◊〉 of thy woâ—d to the 〈◊〉 of thy water That thou should 〈◊〉 â—nto the Covetant 〈◊〉 the Lord thy God c. But he testifieth against them also Deut. 32.5 6.15 16. that they had corrupted themselves that their spot was not the spot of his children that they were a froward and perverse generation a foolish people and â—â—wisâ— who forsoâ—ke God that 〈◊〉 them and regarded not the strong God of their salvation Iosh 5.5 6 7. Joshua circumcised all the people which were borne in the Wildernesse for all that time that Sacrament was neglected and his fact is approved But we reade not of any inquiry that was made of all that great multitude what worke of grace God had wrought in every mans soule and it is very improbable that there was not one who did not give good hope of sound and true cleaving unto the Lord with all his heart Psal 78.55 56 57. When God had
6. 8. Beza epist 81. Quid interim misera Dei ecclesia nempe haec tunc erat ipsius cōditio quae olim in Israele temporibus Eliae delirescentibu◠in spelūca fidelibus Dei Prophetis et qualis rum erar quum everso Dei templo jugi cessante sacrificio captiva in Babylone teneretur Servabat tamen Dominus renascituri suo tempore populi semen Manebat salvus in papatu Baptismus in patris filij Sp. Sancti nomen c. decayed and corrupt Church If any of our men deny the Churches wherein our Fathers lived to be the Churches of God their meaning is limited in respect of the prevailing faction that was in the church and including them and all the wicked impieties by any of them defended in which sence their negative is to be understood These things standing thus might not the christian Magistrate take away the Idoll of the Masse injoyne the reading of the Scriptures in a knowne tongue appoint that prayer should be made to God onely in the mediation of Jesus Christ and take order that the Sacrament of the Supper might be administred in both kindes * 2 Chron. 17.7 8 9 10. according to the institution Might he not n Nabuchadneezer made a law That no man should blaspheme the God of Shadrac c. Dan. 3.29 Darius that men trēble feare before the God of Daniel Dan. 6.26 Joshua made a covenant with the people that they should put away their strange gods Ios 24.23 Asa destroyed Idolatrie commanded the people to serve and seeke the Lord 2 Par. 14.3 4. 15 8 9 10 c. Jehosaphat sent Princes to teach in the Cities of Judah with them Levites 2 Chro. 17.7 8 9. 19.4 Hezekiah sent to all Israel Iudah that they should come to the house of the Lord 2 Par. 30.1.6 Also he took away the high places 2 Reg. 18.4 Iosiah brake downe the altars of Baal and brought backe the people to the worship of God 2 Chron. 34.3 4 5.7 29 30 32 33. Polonia Russia Lithuania was forced at the commandement of their Rulers to forsake their ancient Idols and receive Baptisme Munster Cosmograph fol. 894.902 and divers good Princes maintained long and sharpe warres of purpose to compell the Saxons and Vandals to the faith Idem lib. 3. fol. 719.743 It is a strange new kind of preaching for Bishops to drive men to beleeve with whippings as Bonner did but in Princes who beare the sword and are Gods Lievetenants not onely to procure peace between men but also by Lawes to maintaine Religion towards God we neither did nor doe dispraise moderate correction when need so requireth August Epist 127. Idem contra Erescon lib. 3. cap. 50. Idem contra lit Petilian lib. 2. cap. 86.83 Codex lib. 1. tit 5. de Haeretic Socrat. lib. 1. ca. 34. Gr. lat 21 22. Euseb de vità Const lib. 1. cap. 37. Theoderet lib. 5. cap. 20. Multa enim cogit ferre necessitas quae tamen non probantur command all people throughout his Dominions professing the faith to learne the grounds of Religion to call upon the Name of the Lord to heare his Word and to worship him truly and purely according as the Lord himselfe hath appointed And when the people could not or were carelesse and negligent might he not provide meanes for their instruction and edification in the faith of the Lord Jesus This the Christian Magistrates did amongst us by authority from God They provided that the Scriptures should be read in a known language in all Congregations Ministers injoyned to catechise in the grounds of Christian Religion the Gospell was preached in many places disputation was profered to the learned for satisfaction If these things be advisedly confidered we shall heare no more from the Brethren of the Separation that our Church was gathered without the Word by meere Proclamation not called but made up a Church in one day at the commandement of the evill Magistrate at least no man that hath truly tasted of the Word of life will be moved with such like cavills unlesse it be to condemne their rashnesse and unthankfulnesse so much the more It might here be added that before reformation many did earnestly desire it some lay hid all the dayes of Queene Mary who never came to the Masse but trained up their children and servants at home in the grounds of Christian Religion others fled into forraine parts some met together in private in their owne Countryes as they had opportunitie and many groaned under that bondage in which they were held all which did gladly welcome the truth when it shined forth and rejoyced when they might joyn in the Congregation understand their prayers heare the Scriptures and be instructed in the principles of faith and holinesse And if I should say that at the first reformation there were more godly learned painfull Preachers that endeavoured to bring forward the people in the wayes of godlinesse by an hundred to one than ever wane of your Separation since the Gospell shined unto the world I conceive you shall not be able to finde an Hyperbole in the speech And now suppose in this great and admirable worke such a course to be held as cannot be justified in all things shall this make a nullitie of that which is prosperously effected by the blessing of God If ignorant Ministers should not have beene set over the people when better could not be had if people should not have been admitted to the Lords Supper before better instruction in the grounds of Christian Religion when yet the Law doth presuppose them in some sort instructed If prophane and notorious wicked persons which should have been cast out unlesse they had repented were received into communion without any due course held before to reform and amend them this argueth o Beza epist 1. ad Dudetium Valentinian the elder was a good man worthy the Empire being himself of the Nicene faith Theod. lib. 4. ca. 5. Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 6. and yet he molested not any that were of the contrary faith neither thought he it good to change Ecclesiastical laws into better or worse Sozom. li. 6. ca. 20. Socrat. l. 4. c. 1 and made a Law that every man that would might have two wives himselfe gave the first example in taking two Socrat. l. 4. Gr. ca. 30. lat ca. 16. Can. Neces of Separat p. 175 176 1 Reg. 6.17 18. 2 Chron. 1.8 9. imperfection in the reformation and just cause that we should strive forward to perfect what was happily begun but proveth not the assemblies to be Antichristian or the reformation to be of no worth and validitie Looke through all the Reformations mentioned in Scripture or recorded in other Antiquities and set if this reformation be a nullity whether ever there was a reformed church in the world for any continuance SECT II. THe materiall Temple was a type of the visible Churches under the
Gospell Now we read that it was built from the very foundation â—f costly stones of Cedars Algum Firre and the like choice and speciall trees and those all prepared aforehand hewed and perfect for the building so that neither hammer nor axe nor any toole was to be hea din the house in the building of it no common or vile thing was used towards it neither might any polluted person enter it and offer untill he had repented and embraced the faith 2 Chron. 23.19 Levit. 22.19 27.11 and beene cleansed from his filthinesse By the gates of the house were Porters set to keepe the unworthy out Vpon the Altar there might be offered no uncleane beast no nor that which was cleane having a blemish upon it What in all this was signified Onely this Such as will build a spirituall house for the Lord to dwell in must be an holy people for he is of that infinite puritie that he will not vouchsafe his speciall presence unto prophane companies which joyne themselves together and therefore let it be far from all men to prepare a place for him with such trash or to defile his holy things with such uncleane persons or to offend his nostrills with the stinke of such sacrifices ANSVVER IF this reason be ought worth not only such as would build a spirituall house to the Lord for his Majestie to dwell in but such as would preserve it being built must be an holy people holy in truth and not onely in the judgement of charitie for he is an holy God who will not be worshipped of the hypocrite or prophane will not take the wicked dissembler by the hand will not heare the prayers of them that with delight looke unto iniquitie If the Temple was built from the very foundation with costly stone hewen and prepared after it was built it must be kept from all pollution And then if the Temple was a type of the visible Church in such sense as this reason affirmeth it must be gathered of a people truely holy and separated from the world and onely of such so that if any hypocrite shall craftily creep into it or any wicked person be tolerated afterwards it must cease to be a Church August de Baptis contr Petilian ca. 14. in Epist 1. Joh. Beda in epist 1 Iob. Glossa ordinar Sic sunt ficti in ecclesia quomodo humores mali in corpore quando evomuÌ„tur releuatur corpus sic qudndo excunt mali relevatur Ecclesia which is directly contrary to the whole current of Scripture and to that which your selfe many times affirme The Temple is thought to be a type of Christ of a Christian of the Church but whether of the true Catholique Church whereof every member is a living stone elect and precious or of the visible congregationall assembly consisting of good and bad sincere and hypocriticall professors it may well be questioned For the visible Church is not built all of costly stones hewen and prepared Therein many persons inwardly polluted doe offer though outwardly they appeare cleane and some may be suffered to offer which inwardly and outwardly appeare to be uncleane And if it was a type of the visible Church it must be considered how farre the signification is to be extended and wherein the resemblance standeth For as it appertaineth to God onely to designe a type so it is peculiar to him alone to expound or notifie the p A dispute par 3. cap. 8. pag. 169. Men may never at their pleasure ascribe to any rite whatsoever a holy signification of some mysterie of faith or dutie of pietie signification of the type wherein it consisteth It is an addition prohibited for us to interpret divine instituted types upon our owne heads without ground and warrant from God The common Rule is good if rightly limited Theologia symbolica non est argumentativa which you had need to study better for here and else-where throughout your bookes you thrust such significations of types used in the old Testament upon your Reader as are not taught in Scripture not for the matter it selfe consonant to the q August contr 2. Gaudent epist l. 2. cap. 25. Did God or man tell it you If God reade it unto us out of the Law the Prophets and Psalmes the Apostolicall or Evangelicall Writings Reade it if you can which hitherto you never could but if men have said it or rather no man but your selfe behold the device of men behold what you worship behold what you serve behold wherfore you rebell you rage you waxe madde Bils Christ. subject pars 3. pag. 22. You promised full proofes out of the Word of God c. and now you come with empty figures of your own applying without truth or coherence Amb. Epist. lib. 5. ep 31. The mystery of Heaven let God himself teach me which made Heaven not man which knew not himselfe whom should I rather beleeve concerning God than God himselfe Scripture and your whole frame of arguing is drawne from similitudes and comparisons which is the most popular but deceitfull and loose kinde of reasoning if they be not rightly drawne and well proportioned Let this particular in hand be for example and let us grant you more than you will defire scil That the Temple was a type of the visible Church and that all the members thereof ought to be holy truly holy and not in appearance onely sincere Christians in the sight of God and in the judgement of charitie alone Saints and faithfull in truth and not onely in profession and conversation in some measure answerable be it that no uncleane thing must be offered upon the altar that no hypocriticall service shall be accepted Hence it will not follow that the societie is no visible Church of God where such are tolerated or that the pure and unfeigned worship of the faithfull shall not be accepted when it is tendered in a societie amongst whom there be some rebellious which hate to be reformed If the Temple be a type of the visible Church as it was built from the very foundation of costly stones what can it signifie in your sense but that the spirituall house of the Lord must consist of them that are truely holy faithfull and called so that they should need neither axe hammer nor any toole so you presse the matter to fit or square And then by your owne confession we are to expect no Church upon the earth if ever there hath beene any For in the visible Church hypocrites are and have been mixed with the faithfull as rubbish or counterfeit with costly stones which could have no place in the Temple * Can. Stay sect 4. pag. 33. Thus I might say to you as you to your Pistoler The man is snared in his owne words and may say with the Poet Heu patior telis vulnera facta meis If the Temple might be a type of the Church this notwithstanding then it shewes onely what the Church
ought to be not what it is of whom it doth consist as prime chiefe principall members partakers of all the Royalties and priviledges thereof and not who are tolerated and suffered there as members in an inferiour degree or as maimes and blemishes And then you must lie under the just imputation of abusing this instance to another purpose not agreeable to the truth Can. Neces of Separat pag. 195. It will not be found that ever wee have denied but many hypocrites may be in the true church yea of open and vile transgressors but here lyeth the point If any man shall affirme that the same may be first gathered of knowne lewd and unconverted men that indeed we deny utterly c. When you are pressed with the examples where wicked and ungodly men were tolerated in the Church and did beare chiefe sway and possessed the greatest places and office in the Church you fly to this that you plead against the first building of a Church of such wicked and ungodly men and here you say He that will build a spirituall house to the Lord and the orderly gathering and planting of the members of them were all holy But if this reason be of any force it concludes for the coÌ„tinuance of the Church as well as the first planting or gathering that the members thereof must be truly holy And if this be not more cunning than beseemeth the sincere handler of Gods Word in a matter of such importance let the indifferent consider SECT III. THe reasons upon which our proposition is grounded are these Neces of Separat pag. 176 177. Psal 50.16 Isa 35.8 Zach. 14.21 Rev. 21. ult first All wicked men are forbidden expresly by the Word of God for medling with his ordinance or covenant Now if men to escape temporall punishment are afraid to transgresse against the Lawes of worldly Princes much more fearefull should they be to breake his who is the King of Kings and will inflict for it upon their soules and bodies torments eternally 2. That which destroyeth a Church and makes it either to become a false Church or no Church at all cannot be a true Church or be true matter whereof it is made But men visibly wicked and prophane make the Church a Synagogue of Satan Babylon Sodome Aegypt and so be spied out and removed 3. It is against sense and common reason that a Church should be constituted of unholy people For as in a materiall house the wood and stone must be first prepared and then laid orderly in the building So in the spirituall men and women by the word of God must necessarily be first reformed before they are any way fit to have any place therein 4. They which have no right to the holy things of God in the Church are not to be admitted into it neither is that Church which is so gathered rightly constituted Matth. 7.6 But men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God in the Church And therefore that Church which is gathered of such is not rightly constituted 5. They cannot performe the services and duties of members Eph. 2.1 for they are spiritually dead If a Master will who covenant with one to be his servant which hath in him no naturall life much lesse c. 6. They have not Christ for their head and therefore cannot be of his body For as in the naturall body there must first be a naturall 〈◊〉 of the parts with the head before there can be day action of naturall conjunction Ioh. 15.2.4 Rom. 8. betweene the head and the members and one member and another so in the spirituall body the members must be first united with Christ the head and became one with him before they can any way partake in his benefits Rom. 7.2 Hosâ—a 2.19 20. or have communion one with another as members of the sâ—me body 〈◊〉 him the head 7. They are altogether uncapable of this covenant For as a woman which hath beene once a wife cannot marry againe with another man untill her first husband be deceased or shee from him lawfully divorced So neither can these be married to the 〈◊〉 till they have mortified their corruptions and put the world and Satan away unto which they were before as it were married 8. The godly and wicked are contraries guided and lead by different causes Now true contraries are not capable of one and the same forme ANSVVER THe best way to be secure from the force of your darts is to run unto the marke For here we have reasons numbred up which have weight in them for some purpose some of them at the least but direct them to your marke and they recoyle backe upon your selfe When you have reckoned up first second and third c. the conclusion is ever wanting and not so much as one premise which lookes to the right conclusion to be confirmed The thing to be proved is this that it is no true Church of God which is not planted gathered or built of Saints onely but that consequence will never follow from those premisses For every thing in those Reasons must as well be applied to the continuance of the church as to the first gathering and planting of it The wicked are expresly forbidden to meddle with the covenant or ordinances of God men visibly wicked make the church a Synagogue of Satan Men must be hewen and reformed before they are fit to have any place in the Church of God Men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God Bilson perpet govern ca. 10. p. 147. With open reproving by the Word excluding from the SacrameÌ„ts such as notoriously sinned Pastours and Prophets might intermeddle the people might not It was no part of their charge but in banishing of malefactors from all fellowship and company both civill sacred with the faithfull Pastours were to direct the people to assist and execute that judgement The Apostles doe not leave it to the peoples liking as a matter indifferet till they have coÌ„sented but enjoyneth it as a necessary duty and coÌ„maÌ„deth them in the nameÌ„ of Christ Iesus to withdraw themselves from every brother that walketh inordinately c. Where there wanteth à beleeving Magistrate the Pastour shall not doe wisely to proceed to any such rigour against wilfull and obstinate sinners without the knowledge and consent of the people Euseb hist lib. 6. cap. 34. Theodoret. lib. 5. cap. 17. Bilson Christian subject part 3. pag. 81 82 83 86. The Question is not whether Bishops shall receive Kings with open and obstinate vices to the Lords Table but whether they shall chase them from their Kingdomes or no we mislike not repentance in Princes but resistance in subjects c. But marke what care Augustine will have observed how and when discipline should be administred They cannot performe the duties of members they have nor Christ for their head they are uncapable of the covenant
with the triumphant church And not by all sorts as in outward societie and profession are linked together who yet are not excluded from the societie in respect of profession nor denied to be members of the Church in their kinde or in a sort such as are called onely by externall vocation are members in their kinde of that company called or externally selected but not true members of the Church militant nor militant members of the Church catholique whereof Christ is the head And thus the church is a company of faithfull people sincere upright walking with God which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked livers not as living members of Jesus Christ but as members in a sort of the visible societie as members in the church by outward profession but not of the true militant church SECT V. BEfore I end this point Neces of Separat p. 179 180 181. Babel no Bethel pag. 108. Chall ca. 1. pag 33 34. I will here lay downe some few Syllogismes intirely made up between the Inconformists and Conformists all concluding the forenamed position That Church which hath not a lawfull Ministery is not a true visible Church But the Church of England hath not a true lawfull Ministery Ergo The Church of England is not a true visible Church The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists Sutcl Chal. pa. 40. and answ to the except pag. 65. as Burton Sutcliffe The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists as we have in the first chapter largely shewed The true visible Church of Christ is a societie of beleeving and faithfull people and a communion of Saints so say the Conformists But the Church of England is not a societie of beleeving and faithfull people a communion of Saints thus write the Nonconformists see page 169. Ergo the Church of England is not the true visible Church The true Church is the Kings daughter described in Psalme 45. But the Church of England is not the Kings daughter so described Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ Burton answer to Hicholia pag. 100. The proposition is laid downe by the Conformists whereby they prove Rome a false Church The Assumption is the Nonconformists For if they say the truth their members have not those qualities belonging to the Kings daughter neither the Priest nor people See pag. 15.16 39.137 â—â— 69.170 The true Church of Christ is the flocke of Christ 〈◊〉 the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition say the Conformists is undeniable BurtoÌ„ in the same Booke pag. 99. Song 1.6 7 Act 20.28 Joh 10.16 Theâ—e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles compared with Joh. 10.3 4.27 Christs flocke heare his voice and live it and follow it But the Church of England submitting to aâ— unlawfull Minisstery worship and discipline heare not Christs voice nor know nor acknowledge nor follow it but the voyce of Antichrist The Church of God doth keepe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration or corruption thus the Conformists Sutcl Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg 9. But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration and corruption say the Nonconformists Sec pag 108 Ergo shee is not the Church of God No societie can be tearmed Gods Church which retaineth not Gods true worship this the Conformists But the Church of England doth not retaire Gods true worship say the Nonconformists See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo The same Booke pag. 13. arg 19. shee cannot be tearmed Gods church The true Church consisteth not of fierce Lyons Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beasts But of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble gentle c. So say the Conformists But the English Church doth consist of Lyons Id. pag. 27. arg 〈◊〉 Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beast's and not of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble and gentle c. Thus the Nonconformists see pag. 31. c. 145.169 Therefore it is not the true Church Here the Reader seeth cleerely how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors make up intire Syllogismes of Separation And how they will be able to loose these knots I know not except by revoking utterly their own grounds which if either of them doe yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintaine them against men ANSVVER YOu please your selfe with the same Song which here we have over againe and againe tuned with the same art But that which you talke of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors your slanders set aside is idle and toyish For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists The Conformists Majors as they are truely meant the Inconformists doe assent unto And the abuse of ignorance idlenesse prophanenesse both of Ministers people whereof the Nonconformists complaine the Conformists doe acknowledge and bewaile And your selfe a little after in a matter of the same nature affirme that herein you say no more than what in effect is fully acknowledged Can. Neces of Separat pag. 193. by the Nonconformists Conformists the Church of England the learned generally and all the reformed Churches upon earth and for proofe you quote the same Authors you here all edge And why then doe you trifle thus with the Conformists Major and Inconformists Minor Did the sound of those words please you so well But let the Majors and Minors be whose they will no intire or perfect Syllogismes of Separatisme can be made up of them but such as ignorance in not understanding or an evill conscience in perverting or falsifying their sayings doth conclude They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots and if they understand their owne principles they cannot but untie them But how you can free your selfe from the guilt of an evill conscience unlesse you recant what you have written repent of your Separation and acknowledg the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists by misreporting perverting and falsifying their principles as you call them I leave to your serious consideration and the reexamination of what you have done For the right understanding of the Conformists propositions Iâ— speake in your phrase against the Church of Rome we must note That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholique Church of Christ here on earth under the Pope the Head in which sense their propositions are to be understood For the true catholique militant Church is a faithfull people a communion of Saints the flocke of Christ that heareth his voyce keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles without addition or alteration and worshippeth God truly according to his will And there is truly and properly no member of the militant Church catholique which doth not
their servant from whom you derive your office and authoritie and from whom you receive your Commission your Ministery in that respect is no lesse false and antichristian than theirs that derive it from the Bishops Secondly If Lecturers have received ordination from the Bishops and be called and chosen by the people their calling is just and lawfull according to the rules of Scripture and their Ministery heavenly and from above if they preach the intire faith and feed the flocke of God For they preach the pure doctrine of salvation not by authoritie from men but by commission from the chiefe Shepheard and Bishop of our soules their calling may be justified by the Word and warrant of truth which shall stand for ever the more hainous and fearefull is your sinne in matching the Ministery of such men to the idolatry of Jehu Thirdly You are bold to affirme That no Church under Heaven hath power from Christ to ordaine such a kinde of Ministery c. And it is true the Church hath no power to ordaine any Ministery for Christ is the Author and institutour of the Ministery for his Church But your meaning is That this kinde of Ministery is against the Scripture not ordained and then if we call for your proofe we have nothing here but I deny it Can. Neces of Separat pag. 217. You take up Mr Br. how well it becomes you let the Reader judge as a bold Sophister because he makes flat deniall of expressed truthes As thus I say it is false I deny it c. As if the weight of an argument were sufficiently removed by empty denials But when you should make proofe of what you affirme it sufficeth you to say I deny or this proves it not or I have proved from their writings when you have falfified them onely And if an empty deniall be not sufficient answer to an empty affirmation it is very strange Bilson Christ subject par 1. p. 41. I may justly say to you as Dr Bilson to the Papist whom he answered If great vaunts were sound proofes the victory were yours you have words and cracks at will they cost you nothing SECT III. THat it is so I prove it thus Neces of Separat pag. 53. That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give But none may lawfully bestow the Ministery of a Lecturer Therefore that Ministery is unlawlawfull The Assumption for shame cannot be denied if the nature of it be considered For as we but even now said their Lecturers take no charge of a flocke upon them they make covenant weâ—h the people but for a certaine time the peculiar worke of a Minister is not by the people laid upon them weither expected of them If any object that they preach the Word To this Dr Ames gives an answer fully that the preaching of the Gospell is not a worke peculiar to a Minister for such as are private men and out of office may and ought to preach the Word as occasion is offered and not onely privately but saith he in the publique Congregation c. ANSVVER VVE have here the same thing over againe and when all is said it is but this I deny it or I say it The assumption cannot for shame be denied The proposition rightly understood is true and sound but it may carry divers constructions As first the meaning may be That Ministery is for substance unlawfull which none may lawfully give to such or such persons scil to such as be unfit or prophane And in this sense the proposition is not sound For the Ministery is unlawfully committed to an ungodly man an hypocrite but the Ministery it selfe is heavenly and from above Or the sense may be That Ministery is unlawfull which men may not lawfully give virtually or formally And then it is weake For Pastours and Teachers are the gifts of Christ unto his Church from whom they receive their office and not from men Or it may beare this sense That Ministery is unlawfull which none may lawfully give in such forme and manner as it is executed And then it is lyable to exception For of right the power of administration of the Seales and Censures of the Church belong to the Pastours Teachers and Governours of the Church when in the execution of this office they may be hindred It is lawfull to be an assistant or helper to a Pastour for a time when it is not lawfull to give the office of Ministery to a man for a time onely and then to expire To the assumption The Lecturers of whom we speak have derived their office from the Lord Jesus Christ by the Ministery of his Church as instruments their entrance into it lawfull the service and worke it selfe holy the manner of performing it warrantable and the authoritie they have received the same which Christ hath communicated to the Ministers of the Gospell To publish the truth by way of instruction or exhortation is not peculiar to the Ministers of the Gospell but by authoritie 〈…〉 â—â—culiar to the Minister For the Scripture joyneth together the preaching of the Word and dispensation of the Seales as both belonging to the Officers Math. 28.19 1 Cor. 1. who have received commission from Jesus Christ And if private persons may preach the Word in this sense we see no reason why they may not administer the Sacraments likewise and so the Governours of the Church shall have power to doe nothing which every private member of the societie may not doe as well as they But Lecturers preach the Gospell by authoritie and as men set in office by the Lord of the harvest And this may suffice to shew the vanitie of such exceptions as are taken against our Church Ministery and worship to prove it to be no true Church worship and Ministery and how untruly and unjustly the Nonconformists are charged to lay the grounds of that 〈◊〉 and affected Separation which some have run into To examine what argument is returned to Dr Ames Mr Daw Mr Br is needlesse for nothing of weight is said against them but the same things vainly repeated with insolent scoffes and reproaches as if by evill speaking you hoped to get the victory It is to be observed generally you say Can. Neces of Separat pag. 211. that those which stand for bad causes doe after this sort still reproach the Adversaries Thus doe the Papists the Protestants so the Protestants the Puritanes and so they us as here and in other writings usually Now I would entreat you to review your two books and speake in good earnest whether in scoffing reproaching falsifications you doe not ordinarily exceed all men that ever you met withall Consider seriously and then let conscience be Judge whether it be the note of a good or evill cause c. FINIS A Table of some principall Points handled in this Treatise In the first Part. Concerning a false Ministerie and communicating therein p. 3 4. Nonconformists lay not the grounds