vniuersall both in time and place §. 4. See Aug. in Psal 92. continued throughout all Ages and dispersed in all places in which sense onely the Church is Catholicke and one then it is a point of faâ—th and not of sight For it is visible totally at any one time or place to any mortall eyes Some part thereof being in Europe some in Asia some in Africa for place some part in heauen triumphant some on earth militant some not yet in the world for time We beleeue therefore that there is one Catholicke Church we see but a small part of it that is one vniuersall company of Christians spread ouer the whole earth and continuing from the Apostles times till the day of Iudgement part whereof is now in heauen part on earth and part yet to come called to be professors of Gods worship and partakers of his glory through Iesus Christ his sonne And though this whole company be neuer visible to men at once yet some parts thereof liuing vpon earth are alwayes visible to men by their persons and profession some at one time some at another some in one Countrey some in another as the Church of Jerusalem and of Antioch of Rome Corinth Galatia c. In the Apostles times the seuen Churches of Asia in S. Iohns time the Churches of England France and other Nations in our time §. 5. Secondly if you take the Church for the company of Christians liuing in any one particular Age and thereunto apply the propheticall promises you must admit a threefold distinction one of the parts of the Church another of the promises appliable to the seuerall parts and a third of the times wherein they are to be fulfilled For a D. VVhite Reply to Fisher pag. 52. most of the promises though in generall termes made to the Church in common to shew what the whole is in respect of Gods outward vocation or what the office and duty of the whole Church is yet doe appertaine formally and indeed onely to the better part of the common subiect As your owne Doctors teach b Cornel. de â—apide com Esa cap. 2. v. 4 Cum Deus aliquid Synagoga vel Ecclesiae permittit quamvis amplâ— vniuersal bus vâ—rbis â—â— tamen de bonis proba tantum qui saeâ—â—s amicitiam cum deo promittente paâ—iscente seruant intelligendum The Scriptures giue vs a distinction of the Called and Chosen saying Many be called but few chosen Mat. 20.16 The Called are the Professors and the Profâ—ssors saith your c Bellar. de Ecclesâ— militant lib. 3. cap. 2. §. nostra autem sententia Bellarmine are the members of the true Church though they be reprobi scelesti impij reprobates wicked and impious For saith he to be a member of the Church there is not necessarily required any inward vertues but onely outward profession But I hope you will not say that to this company in grosse these promises doe belong of purity vnspottednesse eternall life but onely to the better part thereof that is the Chosen that truely beleeue and holily liue according to Christs doctrine which company because who they are is onely knowne to God the discerner of the hearts and not to men who see onely their persons and profession but not their hearts may well be called in respect of men The invisible Church as visible to God onely The Holy Ghost describing the true members of the Church calls them such as should be saued Acts 2.47 The Lord added to the Church such as should be saued And this is the ordinary doctrine of d Aug. de Bapt. contra Donatisâ—as lib. 6. cap. 3. Auari raptores faencratores inuidi malevoli ad sanctam ecclesiam dei non pertinent quamvis esse videantur illa autem columba vnica pudica casta sponsa sine macula ruga hortus conclusus sons signatus paradisus cum fructu pomorum c. non intelligitur nisi de bonis sanctis iustis intimâ—m supereminentem spiritus sancti gratiam habentibus S. Augustine that true godly men such as shall be saued are the only heires of the promises the couetous rauenous vsurers enuious malevolous do not belong to the holy Church of God though they seeme to be in it That onely Doue that chaste and pure Spouse without spot or wrinkle that garden inclosed fountaine sealed paradise of Pomegranats c. is not vnderstood but of the good holy and iust such as haue the inward and supereminent grace of the holy spirit Thus Saint Augustine Againe e Aug. ib. lib. 7. cap. 51. he saith All things considered I thinke I shall not rashly say that some are so in the house of God that they are also the very house of God which is said to be built vpon a Rocke which is called his onely Doue his faire Spouse without spot or wrinckle c. for this is in the good faithfull The like De vnitate eccle cap. vlt. Epist 48. De Bapt. cort Donat. lib. 5. c. 27. in praesatione in Psal 47. De doctr Christiana lib. 3. cap. 22. In the rules of Tychonius De corpore Domini bipartito and holy seruants of God euery where dispersed and yet conioyned in spirituall vnity and in the same communion of the Sacraments whether they know one another by face or not And it is certaine that others are said so to be in the house that they belong not ad compagem domus to the frame of the house nor to the society of fruitfull peacefull righteousnesse but as the chaffe among the Corne c of whom it is said They departed from vs but they were not of vs. In many other places Saint Austen hath the like Insomuch as Bellarmine being ouerpressed with the Scriptures and Fathers and especially Saint Augustine §. 6. cannot but yeeld and saith in plaine tearmes f Bellar. de eccle milit lib 3 cap. 2. §. notaâ—dum autem that wicked men without any internall vertue are no otherwise members of the Church then our excrements and diseases are parts or members of our bodies as our hayres our nayles and euill humours in our bodies and elsewhere g Ib. cap. 9. §. Ad vltimum aâ—o malos non esse membra viva corporis Christi hoc significari illis scripturis obiectis He saith that euill men are no other then dead members of Christs body and hee citeth many learned Papists that say Malos non esse membra vera nec simpliciter corporis ecclesiae sed tantum secundum quid aequivocè That euill men are not true members nor simply of the body of the Church but onely after a sort and equiuocally His Authors alleadged there are Iohannes de Turrecremata Alexander de Ales Hugo B. Thomas Petrus à Soto Melchior Canus alij I will conclude this point with Saint Augustine who saith h Aug lib. 2. contra Creâ—conium
vsed was worse then the vse of the law of Nature that Bishops sinned in buying their admission of the pope of Rome that no man was bound to beleeue or to be subiect to the Church of Romes determination that the begging of Friers was idle and impious that it was not necessary to saluation to beleeue that Christs body was materially in the Sacrament And many other things against the vnsoundnesse of the Papacy Yea madnesse contra Papatus insaniam At last he was condemned of heresie by the slaues of the popish Bishops 1457. Bale cent 8. cap. 19. ex Thomae Gascoigni Dictionario Theologico 34 Iohn Capgraue Doctor of Diunity in Oxford complained much of the impious tyranny of the prelates and priests hirelings exposing their sheepe to the Wolues seeking their wooll and milke but not their soules c. 1460. Bale cent 8. cap. 1. 35 Henry Parker Fellow of All-Soules Colledge in Oxford preached at Pauls Crosse against the pride brauery and ambition of Prelates so flat contrary to Christs pouerty and humility And at the peoples entreaty he wrote and published his Doctrine to the great shame of the Prelates For which he endured long imprisonment and want 1470. Leland in Catalogo virorum illustrium Bale cent 8 cap. 29. These few for a taste I giue you excerpted out of a great number which that one famous Vniuersity of Oxford afforded Whereof you may reade more plentifully in Master Powels Preface alledged To search and alleadge the Records of that other famous Vniuersity of Cambridge and the rest of England would not be fruitlesse but I hope to you needlesse Antiquus This is full enough so many learned men Preachers Doctors Bishops and Worthies of all sorts out of one Vniuersity with the danger of their state honour liberty and life setting themselues publikely against the corruptions crept into the Church must needs argue the corruptions to be great publike and necessary to be reformed and I am fully satisfied that it was so But happily this Reformation might haue beene performed without such a breach rent schisme and scandall as you Protestants haue made by your departing from that ancient famous Church of Rome §. 16. Antiquissimus Oh sir you must know that this Reformation was sought for euen at the Popes hands with great humility and earnestnesse both by Luther himselfe at the first and also by many other learned men This appeareth by 〈◊〉 Commencaries History of â—he Councell of â—râ—â— Onuphâ—â—â— Sâ—rius Thuaâ—â—us and oth r Histories of those times States and Prâ—nces yea by the Emperour himselfe with much instance And Pope Aâ—rian the sixt was well inclined thereunto confessing ingenuously that the Church was mightily ouer-runne wâ—th corrup ions For reformation whereof diuers conferences were appointed in Germany as not onely our Sleidan but your Surius and Thunâ—nus report And Pope Clement the seuenth promised Reformation to the Emperour Châ—rles the fift and three Cardinals Caieâ—â—â— Pole and Contarene were deputed to giue aduice for this Reformation After many delayes againe Anno 1537. Historie of the Councell of â—rent Pope Paul the third appointed foure Cardinals and fiue other Prelates to consider the demaunds of the Protestants and to collect the abuses of the Church and Court of Rome and to deuise Remedies to correct them And of these abuses they gathered great numbers which are set downe at large in the twelfth booke of Sleâ—dâ—ns Commentaries But all this came to nothing For when vpon due examination the Cardinals found many things too nearely touching the quicke the Reformation thereof would vncurably wound the Sea of Rome ouerthrow and vndoe the greatnesse of their wealth and worldly estate and when they consulted deepely thereof with the Pope See D. Wâ—ite against â—â—â—er pag. 10â— 1â—7 there followed a conclusion and a plot quite contrary In regard of the principall things That nothing should bee reformed but all should be iustified since a thorow-reformation would spoyle them and a halfe-reformation would not content the Protestants and yet would giue the world occasion to thinke They might erre in many things if they reformed some Now therefore the proceeding must be changed At first many of their Diuines opposing Luther laboured to proue all their Doctrines Ceremonies and Gouernment by the Scriptures now they find it cannot be Therefore the Scriptures must be cryed downe disgraced disabled as ambiguous and insufficient to teach and guide the Church And the Church to wit their owne onely Church of Rome must be exalted aboue the Scriptures That Church must giue authority to the Scriptures yea and sense also so that no sense of the Scripture shall be receiued but that which that Church alloweth For that Church only cannot erre See B. Andâ—eweâ— aâ— Apâ—loâ—â—am respâ—â—â—â— pag. 259 and therfore they that admit the Scriptures to be the onely Iudges and Rules of Doctrine and Discipline are bad Diuines little better then Hereticks Enemies to the Church From hence came those base speeches from their Doctors Eckius Hosius contra 〈◊〉 lib. 3. pâ—g 148. 〈◊〉 sâ—â—gâ—â—â—us That the Scripture hath no authority but from the Church Hosius No more force then Aesops Fables without authority from the Church Pighius the Scripture is of it selfe but a Nose of Waxe which may be writhen euery way Costerus compares it to a sheath Costeranchir dâ— saâ—â—a script cap. 1. §. huius script pa 44. B llar de verbo Dâ—i lâ—b 4. câ—p 9. in â—alce Concil Trid. sess 4. Pighius controv 3. pag 92 Hiâ—â—arch epist nunc Mulhus disp 2. de fide pa. 21. See D. White against Vishâ—r pag 92. admitting any Dagger Wooden or Leaden The Iesuite Salmeron saith Tradition is the sure rule of Faith by which the Scriptures are to be tryed And Bellarmine saith the best way to try which be true traditions which be false is the authority of the Church of Rome So that now to speake in their Dialect or meaning The Church of Rome is the Queene and the Scripture her slaue That Church hath now two seruants of equall authority Scripture and Tradition and therefore that Churches Councell of Trent saith Scripturas Traditiones Ecclesiae pari pietatis aspectâ— ac reuerentiae suscipit veneratur We receiue the Scriptures and Traditions of the Church with equall affection and reuerence Nay no great matter what the Scripture saith for their Tradition must interpret it If the Scripture say Drinke yee all of this Matth. 26 27 their Tradition saith not all but the Clergy onely and not all the Clergy but he that ministreth it onely So what their Priests teach must be receâ—ued and obeyed whether out of Scripture or Traâ—ition Tolet. casuum conscientiae l b 4. cap. 3. p â—53 Cardinall Tolet saith The people may merit ar Gods hand in beleeuing an Heresie if their Teachers propound it for their obedience is meritorious And Stapleton They must not regard quid but quis not what is the matter but who
goodnesse who calleth things that are not as though they were euen in that Ministery gaue grace vnto his Saints Bishop Carlton wrote a booke of purpose entituled Consensus Ecclesiae catholica contra Tridentines to shew that although the doctrine of Christian Religion was much altered in the chiefest Articles of Faith by Fryers yet a great number of godly learned men held the ancient truth and preserued the Church vntill the times of Reformation and that the Reformed Churches still continue the same and are separated onely from the Roman Court so farre as the Roman Court had separated it selfe from the Roman Church and that our Fathers and Ancestors liuing dying in the Roman Church had sufficient meanes to bring them to saluation And this he sheweth in the seuerall discourses of the principall fundamentall points of faith See of this matter also Bishop Vsher De successione Ecclesiarum cap. 6 § 8 9. and his Sermon And Archbishop Abbot against Hill Reason 5. § 28. And Mr. Richard Hookers discourse of Iustification §. 2. Their Reasons are I. The corruptions in the Roman Church sprung not vp all at once nor came to their full height vntill these late yeres and were not so dangerous in their Spring as in their full growth and strength D. Field book 3. chap. 6. Of the Church Append to the 5. booke part 3. pag. 8. c. II. They were not generally receiued by all men nor as the vndoubted determinations of the Church but controuerted and variously disputed among the learned and holden with great liberty of iudgement by the greatest Doctors as appeares by thier owne bookes of Controuersies written by Bellarmine Suares Azorius c. which confute their owne writers as much as they doe Protestants and by those 27 points which D. Field mentions in his Appendixe to the seuenth Chapter of the third booke of the Church printed at the end of the fourth booke for had they beene the vndoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would haue holden them vniformely entirely and constantly as they held the doctrine of the Trinity and other articles of the Faith As long therefore as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall and in other things were suffered to abound in their owne sence there was no such danger in holding the right faith III. Our forefathers held the true foundation of Religion that is Iustification and Saluation by Iesus Christ his merits onely and so were taught ordinarily in their bookes of visitation and consolation of the sicke * As we shall shew in the article of Iustification and they erred onely in points inferiour of lesse moment and danger which defaced indeed and blemished but did not nullifie or take away the beeing of the Church Diseases in the heart braine liuer and vitall parts are dangerous and deadly but wounds or blemishes in the fleshly sensuall or organicall parts onely as the hands feet eares eyes c. doe onely impaire the beauty and actions but endanger not the life nor cut of hope of recouery Greg. Nissen de opific. hom cap. vlt. It is Saint Gregory Nissens Simile So saith he it is with the Church of God and Religion A man is a man while he hath life though he be sore diseased as Naaman was in his leprosie IIII. They misliked and derided as Chawcers plowman many of their ceremonies and idle things as holy water pardons relickes c. and deplored the greater corruptions and abuses and cryed for reformation most readily receiuing it when it came V. In what they erred they erred ignorantly Aug de vtilitate credendi ad Honorat Idem epist 162. ad Donat. with mindes ready to be reformed vpon better information Saint Augustine puts a difference betwixt Heretickes and them that beleeue Heretickes And he saith They that defend an opinion false and peruerse without pertinacious animosity especially which not the boldnesse of their owne presumption hath begotten but which from their seduced and erroneous Parents they haue receiued and themselues doe seeke the truth with care and diligence ready to amend their errour when they find the truth they are in no wise to be reckoned among Heretickes This was the case of our fathers vnder the Papacy VI. If any did erre in points fundamentall as long as they denyed not the foundation directly See of this more chap. 4. sect 3. for that is plaine infidelity or apostacy and quite cuts them off from the Church if they did it onely vpon meere ignorance with a mind ready to reforme their errour vpon better instruction those were still the accounted members of the true Church For this was the case of the Corinthians denying the resurrection of the dead 1 Cor. 15.10 and of the Galatians erring dangerously about Iustification Gal. 3.3 4 5. 5.4 whom yet Saint Paul calles Churches of God 1 Cor. 1.2 Gal. 1.2 and doubtlesse he would not haue taken such paines to write vnto them except he had so thought them and had hope to find them tractable and recouerable §. 3. Antiquus Sir I heartily thanke you I need heare no more nor trouble you any longer since you allow the Church of Rome to be the true Church of God wherein saluation may be had and you alledge great Doctors of your owne side and good reasons for it I am satisfied I haue no reason to cleaue to your Church which all our Catholickes condemne for hereticall and schismaticall and to leaue the Roman which you acknowledge to be the true Church wherein saluation is to be had The Roman Church is iustified on all hands by friends and enemies to be safe yours is condemned of all but your selues I will take my leaue See this more at large in D. Field in the places before alledged and B. Carlton Iurisdiction consensus c. Antiquissimus Stay good sir and draw no more out of my words then they yeeld you I spake of the Church of Rome as it was till Luthers time and you conclude of the Church of Rome as it is now Deceiue not your selfe there is great difference betwixt them betwixt the times then and now and betwixt that Church then and now In those times the errours of our forefathers were of meere ignorance what they perceiued to be euill they misliked they desired knowledge they wished many things reformed and gladly embraced reformation when they found it comming But now it is all otherwise now men are admonished of their errours offer is made them to be better instructed and yet either they dote on their owne old opinions vnwilling to be instructed in the reuealed truth or after sufficient knowledge and conviction for some worldly respects they wilfully and obstinately persist in their old errours and which is farre worse they hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth Saint Cyprian saith if any of our predecessors Cypr. ep 63. §. 13. either of ignorance or simplicity
Tridentine faith is not so old as Luther neuer seene in the world of many yeares after his death CHAP. 2. Answering the vaine alleadging of some words and customes and corrupt alleadging of the Fathers words against Protestants § 1. Obiection None alleadged in the former chapter agree with Protestants in all things ergo are not of their Church or Religion 2 Answered It is no consequent For so also euery one of them differed from the present Romish Religion and yet are accounted theirs Protestants haue iustly abstained from some words and phrases of some Fathers 3 And also haue left off some ceremonies and customes 4 As the Church of Rome hath left many knowne to be ancient and thought to be Apostolicall 5 Which confutes the vanity of W.G. his booke and shewes his owne alleadged authors by his owne argument to bee none of his Church and Religion 6 By the same argument many Fathers for example Athanasius Ierom Gelasius Gregory Chrysostome Augustine are plentifully proued to be against the present Church and Religion of Rome 7 Foure seuerall wayes at the least the Romish make shew of the Fathers to be for them The first by alleadging counterfeit books falsely bearing the Fathers names Many examples hereof 8 The second by corrupting the bookes which the Fathers wrote putting words in or out and altering the text to speake contrary to their meaning 9 The third by blinding or perverting the sense of the Fathers sentences by glozes and interpretations 10 The fourth by citing the Fathers to proue that which is not in question §. 1. Antiquus NOw that you haue said what you can or will to shew that Protestants had a sufficient visible Church in all Ages since Christ I reply you neuer had any For neither the Fathers nor Greeke Church nor Waldenses nor the Church of Rome before Luthers time were of your Religion Campian Ratio 5. For the Fathers it was Mr. Campians fifth reason why he challenged combate with the Protestants because all the Fathers backed him Ad Patres si quando licebet accedere confectum est praelium If we may try it by the Fathers the fight is at an end For they are as sure ours as Pope Gregory the 13. These and the other three sorts euery one of them either in many points or at least in one or other differed from you As the Rhemists say in their Annotation vpon Rom. 11. ver 4. We will not put the Protestants to proue that there were 7000 of their sect when their new Elias Luther began but let them proue that there were seuen or any one his either then or in all Ages before him that was in all points of his beleefe Thus the Rhemists §. 2. Adrationes Campians G. Whitakeri responsio ad rationem 5. Antiquissimus The vanity of Campian you may see by D. Whitakers answer who shewes that euery one of the Fathers whom Campian picked out and named held points directly against him and for vs. Euen Dionysius Cyprian Athanasius Basil Nazianzin Ambrose Ierom Chrysostome Austen Gregory The vanity of your Rhomists and other lipellers following them is palpable in that they thinke euery smal point of doctrine or practice yea euery small rite or ceremony vsed by some and not vsed by others makes a difference of their Religion We doe not deny but that we haue left off and disused diuers traditions ceremonies and phrases which were vsed in the ancient Church but we constantly affirme we carefully and entirely hold all the substance of doctrine and all things necessary for saluation not onely for the essence but for the perfection beauty and ornament of the Church so that notwithstanding the things left off wee are wholy and fully of the Primitiue and ancient Religion Aâ—tiquus Why haue you left off any words and phrases of the ancient Fathers if you hold their doctrine why forsake you their words Antiquissimus Bellar. De cultu Sanctorum lib. 3 cap. 4. Ad testim patrum dico De Romano Pontif. lib. 3. cap. 13. §. Ratio autem cur Apostoli in Scripturis nunquam vocant sacerdotes Christianos sacerdotes sed solum episcopos presbyteros c. See Here. cap. 5 sect 9. See this matter handled aâ— large by B. Morton Appeal lib 2. cap. 7. B. Andreâ—es Ad Bellarmini Apologiam Responsio cap 8. pag. 184. Because those words are now taken to signifie such doctrines as then they intended not Their doctrine we hold though some of their words we doe not so frequently vse you vsurpe those words but refuse their doctrine Your Bellarmine tels vs truly that the Apostles and first Christians abstained from the words Temple and Priests vsing the words Ecclesiae Episcopi Presbyteri And thus Iustinus Ignatius and the other most ancient Fathers vsed to speake The reason was lest people might vnderstand them as if they meant that the Iewish ceremonies continued with the Temple of Salomon and the sacrificing Priests But afterwards in Tertulliâ—ns time when the danger of that misconceit was worne out Christians began to call Presbyters and Bishops by the name of Priests c. So that the words which the Apostles and first Fathers neuer vsed for feare of mistaking the following Fathers ordinarily vsed hoping after that long disusing they should not be mistaken they vsed the words Priests or Sacerdotes altars sacrifices oblations and such like not properly but by allusion to the Priests altars and sacrifices of the Iewes which were types figures and as it were foretokens or foreprophesies of Christs sacrifice offred once by himselfe for the sinnes of the whole world which was the Antitype verity of those of the Jewes and was continually to be remembred againe as oft as the blessed Sacrament of his Body and Blood was celebrated â—useb demonstr Evang. lib. 1. c. 10. Chrysost hom 17. in Hebr. Ambr. in Epist ad Hebr. 10. 〈◊〉 August in Psal 75. Jdem lib. 20. aduers Faustum Manichaeum cap. 21. tom 6. Thus the Fathers haue expressed their owne meanings Eusebius Christ hath offered a marvailous sacrifice for the saluation of vs all commanding vs to offer vnto God a memoriall instead of the sacrifice of his Body and Blood Chrysostome wee offer vp the same sacrifice which Christ offered or rather a remembrance thereof the like hath Ambrose Augustine saith when we doe not forget our Sauiours gift is not Christ daily offered for vs Christ was once offered for vs and by that memory he is so daily sacrificed for vs as if he daily renued vs. And more fully Sacrificij nostri vera caro caro Christi olim in veteri lege per victimas pollicebatur in passione vero Christi in cruce per veritatem reddebatur at hodie in nostre sacrificio per sacramentum memoriae celebratur Sententiarum lib. 4. distinctio 12. lit g. The Master of the Sentences asketh whether that which the Priest holdeth may be called properly a sacrifice or
proued by â—criptures Fathers and Councels that no mortall man had power to giue a dispensation for a man to marry hâ—s brothers wife and told the Pope they had brought also other learned men out of England which were ready by dispensation to maintaine it The Pope promised sundry times a day of disputation but after many delayes giuing them good entertainement he made Cranmer his â—enitentiary and dismissed them Then the rest returning Cranmer was sent by the Kings appointment Embassadour into Germany to the Emperour where hee drew many to his side and among the rest Cornelius Agrippa While hee was in Germany Archbishop Warhan dyed and the K. sent for Cranmer to make him Archbishop of Canterbury who delayed his returne partly for businesse and partly for conscience and feare that he should be vrged to receiue the Bishopricke as from the Popes Donation when the right or Donation was in the King As he plainely told the King after his comming home But yet the matter was so handled that both with the Kings and the popes consent Cranmer was made Archbishop There are many letters from the pope soâ—â— to the King some to Cranmer in fauour of Cranmer recorded in the Register of Cranmer fol. 1 2 3. and related in Master Masons Booke lib. 2. cap 6. Whereof one for his Consecration runnes thus Clement Bishop 〈◊〉 our welbeloued sonne Thomas elect of Canterbuty Weâ— grant he eâ—câ— to thee that thou mâ—â—st â—â—â—eiue the gift of Consecration of whatsoeuer Catholicke Prelate thou wilt so he enioy the fauor and communion of the Apostolicke See two or three Bishops enioying the like fauour and communion being sent for and assisting him in this businesse Dat. Bouon 1532. Pontificatus numeri decimo And he was accordingly consecrated March 30. 1533 24. H. 8. by three Bishops to his Lincolne John Exon Hâ—yâ—ry Assaph I hope there can be no quarrell picked against this Consecration The most busie-headed Iesuite of our times Robert Parsons acknowledgeth Cranmer a true Bishop in his three Conuersions part 3. pag. 340. Antiquus But did not Cranmer take the oath to the Bishop of Rome at his Consecration as his predcessors had done and afterwards brake it Sanders de schis lib. 1 cap. 58. Mason lib. 2. cap. 7. Ex Regist Cran. fol. 4. b. Antiquissimus Indeed your D. Sanders so slanders him as if he had taken it simply and absolutely which he did not but with a protestation often made and repeatâ—d plainly and publikely first in the Chapter-house secondly kneeling before the high Altar in the hearing of the Bishops and people at his consecration thirdly in the very same place and in the very same words when by Commission from the Pope they deliuered him the Pall. The summe of the protestation was this That hee intended not to binde himselfe to any thing which was contrary to the Law of God or contrary to the King or Common wealth of England or the Lawes and prerogatiues of the sâ—me nor to restraine his owne liberty to speake consult or consent in all and euery thing concerning the Reformation of Christian Religion the Gouernment of the Church of England and the prerogatâ—ue of the Crowne or the commodity of the Common-wealth And euery where to execute and reforme such things which he should thinke fit to be reformed in the Church of England And according to this interpretation and this sense and no otherwise he professed and protested that hee would take the oath Sect. 5. Antiquus Well I am satisfied for Cranmer What say you to the rest of that time for he alone could not consecrate Antiquissimus I say first the Bishops in King Henries time which had beene consecrated before the renouncing of the popes authority lost not their power of consecrating afterwards For their Character is indeleble and cannot bee nullified by schisme heresie or censure of the Church being a thing imprinted in the soule by God and not by Man as the Councels h Concil of Florence Trent cited by Bellar. De Sacram in genere lib. 2. cap. 19. and your owne Doctors i Bellarmine in the same chapter De Rom. pont lib. 4. c. 10. § Respondeo falsissimum esse in fine he saith Quis ignorat Catholicorum baptizatos ab Haereticis verè esse baptizatos similiter ordinatos vere esse ordinatos quando ordinator vere episcopus fuerat adhuc erat saltem quantum ad Characterem teach Secondly I say that by the Statutes made in the 25 yeare of King Henry 8 it was ordained that euery Bishop should be consecrated by three former Bishops and with all due ceremonies And this is acknowledged by your k De schis lib. 3 pag. 296. D. Sanders and was duly performed in all Consecrations as of Cranmer of Canterbury 1533. Lee of Liechfield 1534. Browne Archbishop of Dublin 1535. Wharton of Assaph 1536. Holgate of Landaffe 1537. Holbecke of Bristow 1537. Thurlby of Westminster 1540. Wakeman of Glocester 1541. Bucklsy of Bangor 1541. Bush of Bristow 1542. Kitchin of Landaffe 1545. Euery one consecrated by three Bishops at the least and with all due ceremonies So that of King Henries time both by the statute De jure and by Records De facto you may be fully resolued that according to your owne rules all were true Bishops that were consecrated either before or after the schisme as you call it nd so they were acknowledged that liued still in Queene Maries time they that had beene thus consecrated in King Henries time were acknowledged I say by all your Catholickes and by the Pope himselfe to be rightly consecrated neither needed they any new consecration as B. Bouer Bishop Thurlby and Cardinall Pole But Thurlby made Bishop of Westminster in King Henries time was translated to Norwich by King Edward and to Ely by Queene Mary and made of her priuy Councell And Anthony Kitchin made Bishop of Landaffa in King Henries time so continued in King Edward and Queene Maries time and till his death in the fift yeare of Queene Elizabeth without any new orders or consecration the first being sufficient and in all times vndoubted Also Reginal Poole Archbishop of Canterbury Thomas Watson Dauid Pole Iohn Christoferson made Bishops in Queene Maries time deriued their Consecration from Bishops which were made in the time of the pretended schisme and some of them from Cranmer himselfe Now then if you allow them for Canonicall you must allow their consecrators also to be Canonicall Sect. 6. King Henries Bishops then being thus cleared come we to King Edwards time wherin the Bishops formerly made and then continuing are cleared also to bee truely Consecrated and the Priests also formerly made and continuing in King Edwards time must be acknowledged to be rightly ordered and therefore to be capable of consecration to be made Bishops as were Ridley Hooper Ferrar. These therefore being consecrated by three Bishops became true Canonicall Bishops and so were all throughout King
mother and the deceiuers themselues be confounded and ashamed of the books they haue so falsely written and all Godly people be confirmed in the truth so manifestly cleared from forgeries which obscured it All which I hope the rather because the Papist prisoners in Framlingham castle in Queene Elizabeths time said to the Protestant Ministers if you can iustify your calling we will all come to your Church and be of your Religion r Mason lib. 1. cap. 3. in fine pag. 20. Sect. 9. Antiquus Well Sir be it that your English Clergy was canonically ordained and consecrated yet what say you to the Protestant Ministers in other countries which could haue no Bishops to ordaine them But as our learned men say they ordained one another very disorderedly and insufficiently Antiquissimus You draw mee to a Digression impertinent to the Church of England to speake of other countries in whose affayres I am not sufficiently acquainted and am loth to meddle It may be your learned men wrong them as they haue done vs. But if what they say be true It was your Popes fault so auerse from all reformation that did driue the Reformers in those countries to that necessity that either one Minister must ordaine another or else the Churches must be without many profitable Ministers By the way because you dislike our word Minister as we doe your word Priest vsed in your sense for sacrificing Priest Though the word Minister bee vsed by the b Bellar. de Rom. pont li. 3 cap. 13 pag. 392. § Ratio autem cur Apostoli in Scripturis nunquam vocant sacerdotes Christianos sacerdotes sed solum episcopos presbyteros Apostles in the New Testament for Minsters of the Gospell and the word Priest neuer vsed at all by them no nor by the most ancient Fathers as c Bellar decultu Sanctorum lib. 3. cap. 4. § Ad testimonium Patrum dico pag. 275. See before chap. 2. § 2. Bell. himselfe confesseth I will to auoyd offence to both vse the word Presbyter which the Apostles vsed and which I see our late learned writers do more willingly frequent to signifie such as haue taken full orders in the Church of God But note you also by the way that our fault is very small in vsing sparingly the termes of some later Fathers and vsing commonly the words of the Apostles yours is very great in forsaking and deriding the word of the B B. Apostles and preferring the words of some Fathers and vsing them contrary to their meaning But Then I doubt not to affirme that Orders giuen to Presbyters by Presbyters onely in times of necessity when Bishops cannot be procured to giue them are of full validity and sufficiency For the giuing of orders was appointed to Bishops not of absolute necessity but for their greater honour and for the better gouernment and preseruation of peace and vnity in the Church and for those and the like reasons it is fit that course be obserued when possibly it may But when it cannot we must consider that euen Bishops themselues doe not giue orders by any other power then is found in any other Presbyter Not by their power of Iurisdiction for they may ordaine Presbyters liuing out of their Iurisdiction but by vertue of their orders onely whereby they stand Presbyters Which is manifest by this that Bishops and Suffragans which are not Presbyters cannot giue orders which they neuer receiued therefore seeing the power of giuing orders is from the vertue of the orders formerly receiued which vertue is in euery presbyter as well as in a Bishop and therein Priests Bishops and Popes are all equall d See D. Field lib. 3. cap. 39. in medio alledging many Schoolmen to this purpose Then for want of Bishops to giue orders Presbyters may giue them For that is but a breach of decency and honourable conueniency whereby that thing is tyed to some chiefe Presbyters namely to Bishops which otherwise all Presbyters may doe But to the validity of the orders it maketh nothing what Presbyter soeâ—er giueth them The best learned in the Church of Rome in former times agreed to this Aâ—machanus e Armachanus lib. 11. in 4. Armenorum cap. 7. a worthy Bishop saith If all Bishops failed by death Sacerdotes minores possent Episcopum ordinare Inferior Priests might ordaine a Bishop And Alexander of Hales f Halensiâ— part 4. q. 9. memb 5. art 1 cited by D. Field ib. saith that many learned men in his time and before were of opinion that in some cases and in some times Presbyters may giue orders and that their ordinations are of force though to do so not being vrged by extreme necessity cannot be excused from ouer-great boldnesse and presumption And why not orders by ordinary presbyters as well as Baptisme by meaner persons For your Doctors in times of necessity allow Baptisme which is a principall Sacrament to be administred not onely by Bishops and Priests but by Deacons or any Laiks Baptized yea Laiks vnbaptized and very Pagans if they knew and preforme the Rites of Baptisme and women also by any person that is Homo rationalis and intendeth to doe as the Church would doe The Baptisme preformed by them is sufficient effectuall and needs no rebaptization as Bellermine teacheth at large g Bellarm. de baptismo lib. 1. cap. 7. If this will not suffice you may see more in Doctor Fields h D. Field lib. 3. cap. 39. lib. 5. cap. 56. and Master Masons bookes i Mason lib. 1. Sect. 10. Antiquus Sir you may not thinke that your priuate Reason and iudgement can ouersway the iudgement and determinations of graue learned and holy counsels Antiquiss Far be from me the presumption to thinke so Yet giue vs leaue to see what we see and to say what we know we see it in your owne learned mens books and know it to be your owne practise oftentimes to breake the Canons both of ancient Councels and of the Apostles If Protestants do it in times of necessity condemne them not for necessity hath no law it is so great a tyrant that it will not suffer the Law to stand Your men are faine sometimes to yeeld vnto it Your k This appeares plainly by Greg. Epistles lib. 12. Iud. 7. epist 31. rectified by Bede of D. Stapletons owne iudicious edition translation though other copies somewhat differ See Mason lib. 2. cap. 5. pag. 61. Gregory the great Bishop of Rome sending Augustine the Monke into England who was not vntill afterward made Bâ—shop of Canterbury appointed him to ordaine the first Bishops himselfe alone in case the Brittan Bishops opposed him and that of the English or Saxons there were no Bishops and that the French Bishops would be slacke and vncertaine of ayding him And accordingly himselfe alone ordained Melitus the first Bishop and by the assistance of Melitus onely hee ordained Iustus the second and when there was a Canonicall number then
sheweth § 1. An obiected description of the excelâ—ency of the Church and a necessity of the perpetuall succession and visibility thereof § 2. That for a thousand yeares and more our Church was all one with the Roman § 3. After that corruptions grew intollerable in the Roman Church many yet misliked them and held the truth § 4. The whole Catholicke Church can neuer be visible to men at once but parts of it may and must § 5. The promises of purity and eternall life do not belong to all the called but to the few chosen which to men are invisible though their persons and profession be visible § 6. And this Bellarmine and many other Romanists yeeld §. 1. Antiquus YOu shew no wisedome in disgracing thus the Church of Rome for you must deriue your Church from it or else you haue no succession from the Apostles and consequently no Church at all and therefore no possibility of saluation You that so much glory in the Scriptures doe you not marke how the Scriptures describe the Church calling it a Ephe. 2.19 the City of our Lord b Ib. Hebr. 3.2 6. the house of God c Cantic 4.12 a Garden enclosed a spring shut vp a fountaine sealed d Psal 80.8 our Lords vineyard of his owne planting e 1 Tim. 3.15 the pillar of truth f Psal 27.13 the land of the liuing g Cantic 4.15 the fountaine of liuing waters h Eph. 6.25 c. the Spouse of Christ who gaue himselfe for it who sanctifieth and clenseth it and maketh it a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle that it may be holy and without blemish and to omit other titles i 1 Pet. 3.20 compares it to the Arke of Noe out of which there is no saluation from the deluge of sinne And to the end that by it all men may come to the knowledge of the truth and be saued it must be visible conspicuous and mounted aloft as a City vpon a hill k Mat. 5.14 seene of all the world shining to all the world so continuing to the end of the world with continuall succession of holy gouernment teaching administring the Sacraments without interruption For if it be hidden or inuisible any time how can it teach the people conuert Pagans dispence Sacraments glorifie God lead men to saluation Therefore the holy â—criptures describe this Church to be most ample conspicuous and not onely gracious but glorious l Psal 45.9 This Queene is all glorious in a vesture of gold wrought about with diuers colours to whom the daughter of Tyre and all Nations bring gifts signifying the magnificence of the Church gathered of all the Gentiles m Esay 2.2 3 4 18 20. cap. 49.5 6 7 23. 60.3 4 c. It is the holy mountaine of the Lord to which all Nations shall come and Kings and Queenes should come and doe homage vnto it n â—sal 72.8 c. Micah 4.1 Dauid magnifies this Church as extending from Sea to Sea and from the Riuer to the worlds end adding that the Aethiopians should fall downe before the great Messias the Kings of Tharshish and of the Iles should bring presents the Kings of Arabia of Saba should offer gifts yea all kings should fall downe before him and all Nations should serue him The Messias himselfe saith o Ioh. 12.31 32. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out and I if I be lifted vp from the earth will draw all men vnto me Meaning by his passion to draw all Nations of the world from heathenish Idolatry to become members of his holy Church Now instead of this conspicuous glorious Church you Protestants obtrude vnto vs an obscure latent invisible Church vnseen in the world for more then a thousand yeares or rather neuer seene before Luthers time But if these prophesies of the Scriptures concerning the glory and amplitude of the Church be true as they are most true then is the conspicuous Church of Rome the true Church and your so long latent visible Church the false §. 2. Antiquissimus The wisâ—dome which we vse is not grounâ—ed vpon vnsound policies but vpon standing to the sound truth which is great and will preuaile the disgraces of the Romish Hierarchy we either reade in your own Authors who write them necessario potiùs quam libenter as wrested from them by the truth rather then of any itching humour to disgrace it or wee obserue them with our owne eyes so manifest that they cannot be hid so bad that they cannot be excused The propheticall promises to the Church which you alledge wâ—th all reuerence we doe acknowledge and we confesse that within the first thousand yeares after Christ before â—atan was loosed Reuel 20.2 and 7 8. the most of them werâ— fulfilled and principally in the first ageâ— of thâ—t period when the Church was by the Apostles and their successors propagated to the Gentilâ—â— and plantâ—d in all Nations and while the Church of Rom tauâ—ht the same pure doctrine which we now doe and while your Church and ours and all other particular Churches in the world were one Catholike Church And although some errours and abuses began to creepe into the Church of Rome within that time and weâ—e by many espyed and reprooued yet were they not imputed to the whole Church of Rome but to a faction breeding in it Neither were they so great â—t so largely spred or so strongly defended or of such regard as to make any such breach or manifest sepâ—r tâ—on as in the following ages ensued So that in tâ—e firâ—â— thousand of yeares the holy prophesies by you alleaâ—geâ— make nothing more for your Church then ours â—otâ—ing more against our Church then against yoâ—rs yours and ours being then both one Church §. 3. Sâ—conâ—ly wee affirme that when the Church of Rome grew vntollerably corrupt by mens traditions and new inuâ—â—â—ions especially in the Hierarchy thereof there wanted not multitudes of good Christians both separated from the community thereof that followed their better teachers and professed still the pure ancient Doctrine and other multitudes also liuing in community with the vnsound Romish gouernours groning vnder their corruptions and longing for reformation which made a full sufficient visible Church to whom the propheticall promises belonged and in whom they were fulfilled so much as was intended by them Which that you may the better vnderstand Handled in this section consider first more thorowly the nature of the promises and state of the Church as it must be in these later ages and secondly the state of our Church fully agreeing thereunto and the state of yours disagreeing You that cannot endure to heare of any kind of invisibility of the Church Handled in the second section must of necessâ—ty admit of some kinde thereof or else you involue all in confused obscurity First if you take the Church for the whole Catholicke Church that is