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A70165 Iudahs ioy at the oath layd out in a sermon on the 2 Chro. 15, 15 for Englands example in embracing the parliamentary covenant with readinesse and rejoycing : hereunto is annexed a briefe and moderate answere to The protestation protested, discovering the unsoundnesse of that interpretation of the nationall covenant, and the weaknesse of the grounds there suggested for separate and independant churches / by Iohn Geree ... Geree, John, 1601?-1649. 1641 (1641) Wing G597; ESTC R16455 37,528 68

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In this Authors Answers to his owne Quaery what shall be substituted instead of Prelacy Liturgy and Ceremonies many things deserve examination First whereas he saith considering the Church of England to be none other then a National Church its uncapable of constitution This word Nationall Church I finde often used and much put upon it and yet neither is it a Scripture phrase nor do any give us a certaine exposition of it if by it they understand a Church that hath some common Nationall Worship by some common Pastor at some common place as all the Jewes had the same High Priest and Temple and all the Males were to meete thrice a yeare at the place which God should choose In which respect I conceive the Church of the Iewes was properly termed a Nationall Church in this sense Christians have no Nationall Churches But he seemes to make a National Church to be when an whole Nation is taken into a Visible Church or Churches having all of them the outward profession of Religion which he saith is impossible now because particular Visible Churches consist of none but Visible living members and visible Saints under Christ the King of Saints But here I would faine know the reason why it is necessary that the members in a particular Church should be of better mettall then the members of a Nationall Church doth not God require by his precepts as much of a Nationall Church and say as much of them as of a particular Church See Exodus 19.4 5 6 7 8. how often is that Priest on the Nationall Church of the Iewes Be yee holy or Saints for I am holy The very same charge that is prest on Christians 1 Pet. 1.14 15 16. where no more is required of the members of Christian particular Churches then of the members of the Iewish Nationall Church and are not the members of the Iewish Nationall Church called holy or Saints aswell as be commanded to be so How often is this reason given by the Lord for you are an holy people See Deut. 7.6 14● 21 26 19. And many other glorious things are spoken of the church of the Iewes Ie. 2 5. Ps 1354 And was not Christ their King Psa 44 4. If he were slayne from before the Foundation of the world and the Redeemer of he Church under the Law was he not their King too What difference then doth Scriptures make betweene the members of a Nationall and particular Church and who dares distinguish where the Scripture doth not If they Answere that the Nationall Church of the Iewes were holy in Profession or are called holy in regard of some that were so indeed the denomination being from the better part will not nay must not that answere serve us were all the members of the Apostolicall Churches Visible Saints otherwise then by profession what those that were carnal in Corinth Cap. 3. and defrauders and scandalous contenders too C. 6. Those that were drunk whē they came to the Sacrament too Those that denyed the Resurrection too 1 Cor. 15 12. and those that had not repented of their uncleannesse fornication and Lasciviousnesse too 2 Cor. 12 21. And those that traduced the Apostle too Cap. 11. Then what shall deny the visibility of a Saint or a living member So I might aske touching some in the Ancient holy Church of Rome Romans 16 17 18. And the like of some in the Church of Philippi Cap. 3.18.19 So likewise in the Church of Sardis Revel 3 1 4. and Laodicea Revel 3 16 c. Can these be sayd to consist of Saints or holy people any more then the Iewes must they not have the Title of Saints in regard of their Profession or the denomination from the better part Can Sardis in any other respect have the name of a Golden Candlestick And then I would know againe for what reason it should be more dishonorable to Christ to be the head of a Congregation that are not all Visible Saints further then by profession and outward conformity then to be the head of a Nation where all are not Visible Saints or why Christians should be in more danger for being one by Profession in a Congregationall body then Christ and Prophets for being one with such as were not Visible Saints in a Nationall body these I confesse are Riddles to mee Nay I conceive that though all that doe professe holynesse and life should in duty be so yet Christ in the parable of the Tares and wheate showes it will not be so and a generall seperation is not to be attempted till the end of the world for the Tares signifie the workers of Iniquitie that grow are to be gathered out of the Kingdome of him who is stiled the King of Saints and out of what Kingdome but the Kingdome parabolized The Kingdome of Heaven Math. 13 24 41. and these Tares were not secret Hypocrits for the Servants did discerne them and tell the Master of them and not the Master the Servants nor doth it any way crosse us that the field is interpreted the world as though the wicked and Godly should be in the world together but in distinct societies For this cannot be Why should the Servants wonder to see the wicked in the world how could the Tares come after the wheat as they are said to doe seeing the wicked were in the world before the Godly in the Church see verses 25 27 Why should the Servants consult about the wicked in the world What have they to do with those that are without yea if the wheate and the Tares be thus interpreted there must by this parable be nothing but wheate in the Church no Chaffe no Judas no hypocrite for all but the tares are righteous and shall shine as the Sun in the Kingdome of the Father verses 41.43 But why then is the Field interpreted to be the world A. For good reasons because the visible Church was not to be limited to Judea but extended to the whole world that would entertaine it Secondly the word of this Kingdome ver 19. was to be Preached in the world and by the word of this Kingdome this Kingdome wa● to be gathered in the world in which Kingdome should appeare the Tares with the Wheat These things are so suitable to Christs words scop that I do not at al doubt but that this is the true exposition of this parable Nor doth the Argument so confidently held out against it any whit overthrow it if you thus interpret the parable say some you must of necessity exclude all Church Censures and so crosse other plaine Scriptures A. There is no such necessity in it neither for its a rule in interpreting parables we must not extend them beyond their scope now we must know wicked men are of two rankes one ordinary that though they have no grace visible yet they are formal Professors not guilty of Crimes others that are guilty of notorious crimes as the incestuous person c.
they thinke and justly That the use of the Liturgy in the whole forme of it as a compleate service of GOD to be many waies vitious yet they think the use of some of the formes there which are without exception and most suited to the peoples wants to be in themselves lawfull Notwithstanding though not for his Arguments to prove them Popish yet for the exposition of the Protestation they refuse them and not only refuse them but lay imputation on those that use them as breakers of their Vow and Protestation Now as I have proved no use of the Service-Book is against the Protestation so nor the use of some prayers in such a manner out of the Booke can as I conceive be justly termed Popish for suppose that the forme we use be in the Masse-Book why may we not aswell ask the same Christian Graces that Papists and we both conceive to be necessary to a Christian soule as expresse the same faith touching the Trinity or any other point wherein we agree in the same words and that without the guilt or imputation of Popery And againe he that doth thus use the Booke not according to the whole frame of it but selecting what is most holy nor according to the set words of it but with liberty of correcting the expressions which to our times seeme harsh and unsutable doth hereby as I conceive avoid his second Argument the imposition makes it not Popish to him because he useth it with liberty of conscience To this we may add further There is I conceive a true and usefull distinction to be made of humane constitutions some are helps and so are in genere boni good in their kind the other have no ground but meere imposition and so are in genere mali in their kind evill Now formes of Prayer are humane helps and so good in their kind Prayer is an Ordinance of GOD it requires a forme of words especially in publique all men are not able to conceive a forme and therefore a composed forme to them is an helpe The forme of words in Prayer is not the service but modus the manner of serving God in that Ordinance and so good in its kind Now for the Governors of the Church where there is need of a form to tye to one forme which they conceive pure of purpose to exclude others which they conceive corrupt is I conceive no usurpation upon Christ And this was the end of our Godly reformers in appointing this Prayer Booke Now though many men need not this helpe and it may be can conceive better expressions yet being that formes are human helps and not in themselves evill I conceive we may use some of the Prayers without sin for though it s often said that we may not do evill that good may come thereon yet I never heard it proved that we may not sometime do a lesse good and not the greater for peace and order and to enjoy the greater good at other times more fully and freely This giveth me satisfaction and I beleeve many godly and so prevents division from the Church Assemblies which is desirable for breaches if they be not necessary are justly scandalous If any dissent from us we shall be more ready to contend with GOD then them with God I say that he would move the Parliament to remove this forme so excepted against and corrupt in the generall composure of it and what ever other they prescribe not exactly to tie the well guifted to it but leave a liberty to vary as God shall enable them as I have heard it hath been in our deare Sister Church of Scotland Or if they tie them to any forme that they will rather tie them to the matter then the words to prevent the broaching of errors in Prayers which some thinke was the first occasion of set formes There be Haereticall Prayers as well as Sermons A Socinian may vent his Haeresy against the person of Christ or the grace of Christ An Anabaptist may vent his Haeresy against the Magistrates of Christ or Ordinances of Christ in his Prayer as well as Preaching therefore the Governors may justly tie them to set heads of Prayer though they leave a liberty to the able to use their own expressions so Haeresy shal be prevented and no breach of liberty justly pretended but this I refer to the wisdome of that Honorable Court Another Evill of this Treatise which needed cure it hath bred in some and nourisht in others an opinion that our Churches are not Churches nor our Ministers true Ministers nor our Sacraments to be participated without sinne whereby some are drawne to and others confirmed in a neglect of the servants and service of God which is no small evill that deserveth cure Give me leave therefore a little to examine his grounds His first assay against our Churches is in the close of the proose of his third point the Discipline of our Church to be Antichristian whence he concludes we want Discipline and from the Book-prayer and pell mell admission to the Sacrament he affirmes in his judgment we want true Sacraments and that the Preaching of the word be generally corrupted then it wants a third marke of a Visible Church for answere I conceive a distinction suggested by the assertor of the Scotch Discipline to be very true and here pertinent P. 196. A Visible Church may be considered either Metaphysically or politically It is one thing to consider men as living Creatures indued with reason another thing to consider them as Magistrates Masters Fathers servants c. So it is one thing to consider a Visible Church in her essentialls as a Society of men and women separated from the blind world by divine vocation and professing together the Gospell of Iesus Christ another thing to consider it as a compleate politicall body in which the power of Spirituall government and jurisdiction is exercised som governing some governed Now a Church that wants government or hath one that is corrupt may be a true Church in the former sense though not in the latter being a tru Church in the former sense her mēbers may communicat together in these holy things which fall under the power of order which may be called Sacra mystica as word prayer Sacraments though not insuch things as are under the power of jurisdiction For his objections about Sacraments the first I hope hath received already sufficient answere For his second objection of Pell mell admission to the Sacrament if he dispute against the Church of England in generall he must consider what her Lawes are not what the practise of some is It s true the Law enjoynes all to come but it s as true that the same Law forbids those that are in contention or are otherwise offensive to the Congregation to be admitted till satisfaction given So the command is generall that men may not be let alone in prophanenes and the admission is restrained that men may not