Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
sense_n church_n member_n visible_a 3,354 5 9.6016 5 true
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41334 A sober reply to the sober answer of Reverend Mr. Cawdrey, to A serious question propounded viz. whether the ministers of England are bound by the word of God to baptise the children of all such parents, which say they believe in Jesus Christ, but are grosly ignorant, scandalous in their conversations, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church dicipline ... : also, the question of Reverend Mr. Hooker concerning the baptisme of infants : with a post-script to Reverend Mr. Blake / by G.I. Firmin ... Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.; Hooker, Thomas, 1586-1647. Covenant of grace opened. 1653 (1653) Wing F966; ESTC R16401 67,656 64

There are 3 snippets containing the selected quad. | View original text

church_n why_o do_v you_o not_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o word_n almost_o which_o imply_v there_o may_v be_v some_o government_n without_o it_o but_o it_o will_v not_o go_v on_o so_o strong_o nor_o comfortable_o but_o cast_v what_o you_o have_v say_v into_o a_o syllogism_n and_o see_v how_o i_o recall_v it_o if_o expliciteness_n of_o covenant_n be_v requisite_a to_o the_o esse_fw-la of_o church-government_n ●hen_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n be_v requisite_a to_o the_o esse_fw-la formale_a of_o a_o church_n but_o the_o antecedent_n be_v true_a ergo_fw-la i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o the_o consequence_n but_o for_o church-government_n try_v you_o what_o you_o can_v do_v only_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o christianity_n and_o implicit_a covenant_n i_o have_v try_v it_o and_o find_v it_o not_o sufficient_a but_o the_o other_o i_o have_v have_v good_a experience_n of_o but_o for_o church-convenant_a a_o few_o word_n first_o set_v we_o hear_v apollonius_n speak_v who_o be_v a_o presbyterian_a 17._o page_n 17._o concedimus_fw-la foedus_fw-la aliquod_fw-la tacitum_fw-la seu_fw-la virtuale_fw-la esse_fw-la inter_fw-la membra_fw-la unius_fw-la &_o ●jusdem_fw-la particularis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la externae_fw-la quo_fw-la obligantur_fw-la ad_fw-la mutua_fw-la illa_fw-la officia_fw-la praestanda_fw-la quae_fw-la à_fw-la membris_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la visibilis_fw-la ad_fw-la particularem_fw-la svam_fw-la ecclesiasticam_fw-la communicnem_fw-la exiguntur_fw-la quod_fw-la nempe_fw-la suis_fw-la pastoribus_fw-la corum_fw-la curae_fw-la &_o disciplinae_fw-la subess●●●undum_fw-la publicum_fw-la divinum_fw-la cultum_fw-la frequentare_fw-la cadem_fw-la lege_fw-la &_o jurisdictione_n ecc●●●●sticae_fw-la gubernare_fw-la velint_fw-la ex_fw-la quo_fw-la foedere_fw-la etiam_fw-la jus_o sibi_fw-la acquirunt_fw-la ad_fw-la illa_fw-la qua_fw-la buic_fw-la particulari_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la eju●qu_fw-la membris_fw-la sint_fw-la propria_fw-la &_o altis_fw-la eccles●is_fw-la particularibus_fw-la now_o comp●tunt_fw-la this_o man_n speak_v rational_o and_o those_o word_n be_v worth_a the_o observation_n ex_fw-la quo_fw-la foedere_fw-la jus_o sibi_fw-la acquirunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n so_o that_o all_o the_o right_a and_o power_n that_o officer_n or_o particular_a church_n have_v over_o their_o member_n arise_v from_o this_o covenant_n and_o this_o be_v certain_a for_o suppose_v one_o be_v a_o christian_n and_o suppose_v he_o own_o church-discipline_n yet_o how_o do_v i_o in_o particular_a come_v to_o be_v bind_v to_o dispense_v baptism_n or_o lord_n supper_n to_o he_o more_o than_o any_o other_o minister_n or_o how_o do_v i_o and_o this_o church_n in_o particular_a more_o than_o another_o come_v to_o have_v power_n over_o another_o in_o respect_n of_o discipline_n but_o by_o his_o covenant_n consent_v call_v it_o what_o you_o will_v with_o i_o and_o this_o church_n and_o not_o with_o another_o for_o else_o he_o will_v say_v though_o i_o do_v own_o church_n discipline_n yet_o who_o give_v you_o power_n over_o i_o more_o than_o another_o officer_n or_o church_n for_o i_o to_o say_v you_o dwell_v in_o my_o barish_n be_v a_o silly_a answer_n unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o parish_n be_v by_o divine_a institution_n to_o such_o a_o end_n there_o be_v those_o in_o my_o parish_n that_o come_v not_o to_o hear_v i_o nor_o ever_o choose_v i_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n nor_o will_v own_o the_o church_n in_o this_o time_n of_o reform_v but_o i_o shall_v think_v it_o absurd_a to_o tell_v they_o you_o dwell_v in_o this_o parish_n therefore_o you_o be_v bind_v to_o hear_v i_o etc._n etc._n one_o word_n more_o about_o parish_n i_o will_v put_v this_o question_n it_o be_v a_o practice_n in_o england_n for_o a_o patron_n to_o present_v of_o late_a i_o know_v where_o a_o godly_a minister_n be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n yet_o it_o be_v a_o sequestration_n the_o incumbent_n die_v the_o gift_n fall_v into_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o patron_n he_o be_v a_o idle_a companion_n turn_v out_o the_o godly_a minister_n and_o put_v in_o another_o that_o be_v etc._n etc._n the_o people_n with_o one_o consent_n do_v declare_v against_o he_o and_o oppose_v he_o at_o his_o come_n yet_o it_o seem_v because_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n will_v have_v it_o so_o this_o man_n be_v he_o that_o have_v the_o place_n but_o be_v he_o therefore_o their_o pastor_n because_o he_o pre●chech_v in_o their_o parish_n i_o think_v it_o be_v strange_a for_o any_o man_n to_o affirm_v it_o and_o this_o practice_n be_v very_o common_a i_o hope_v the_o mere_a parish_n do_v not_o make_v he_o their_o pastor_n nor_o the_o people_n his_o member_n this_o be_v a_o woeful_a plague_n to_o godly_a people_n and_o teach_v the_o way_n to_o separation_n though_o it_o will_v not_o justify_v other_o where_o the_o case_n be_v not_o the_o same_o doctor_n ames_n tell_v we_o of_o a_o vinculum_fw-la speciale_a which_o he_o call_v foedus_fw-la 32._o medul_a thiol_n cap._n 32._o and_o so_o as_o no_o man_n be_v right_o admit_v into_o the_o church_n but_o by_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o promise_v of_o obedience_n and_o this_o apollonius_n own_v pag._n 13_o 14._o the_o belgic_a church_n see_v something_o in_o it_o 9_o apol._n c._n 1._o p._n 9_o that_o it_o be_v conclude_v upon_o in_o six_o synod_n that_o those_o who_o come_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n shall_v promise_v express_o to_o be_v subject_a to_o discipline_n and_o have_v the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o godly_a officer_n especial_o make_v all_o those_o who_o come_v into_o their_o parish_n and_o will_v have_v either_o baptism_n or_o supper_n to_o declare_v their_o choice_n of_o they_o for_o their_o officer_n and_o subjection_n to_o all_o christ_n ordinance_n they_o may_v have_v have_v more_o strength_n against_o the_o separation_n indeed_o they_o have_v strength_n enough_o against_o most_o of_o they_o who_o have_v own_v the_o minister_n and_o constant_o attend_v and_o receive_v the_o ordinance_n from_o they_o of_o which_o i_o have_v speak_v elsewhere_o further_o i_o shall_v much_o desire_n that_o those_o who_o oppose_v the_o church-covenant_n will_v lay_v down_o a_o church-member_n in_o his_o estentiall_a cause_n than_o they_o teach_v clear_a as_o for_o profession_n christianity_n or_o what_o you_o will_v call_v this_o be_v but_o the_o causa_fw-la materialis_fw-la of_o a_o church_n member_n for_o it_o be_v not_o man_n quâ_fw-la sio_fw-la for_o then_o all_o but_o man_n quâ_fw-la profess_v as_o saint_n visible_a that_o be_v the_o materialis_fw-la causa_fw-la this_o then_o be_v not_o the_o formalis_fw-la causa_fw-la for_o to_o have_v the_o same_o thing_n to_o be_v causa_fw-la materialis_fw-la &_o formalis_fw-la respectu_fw-la ejusdem_fw-la effecti_fw-la be_v strange_a therefore_o till_o i_o see_v a_o better_a i_o must_v say_v that_o this_o christian_n consent_v or_o covenant_v with_o this_o particular_a church_n and_o these_o officer_n in_o it_o to_o walk_v according_a to_o the_o gospel_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o formal_a cause_n of_o this_o church-member_n in_o some_o sense_n we_o may_v say_v the_o matter_n do_v distinguish_v thing_n a_o lump_n of_o gold_n from_o a_o lump_n of_o clay_n differ_v material_o but_o one_o golden_a vessel_n differ_v not_o from_o another_o but_o per_fw-la formam_fw-la christian_n as_o visible_a saint_n or_o church_n constitute_v of_o such_o differ_v material_o from_o all_o other_o society_n of_o man_n but_o how_o one_o church_n a_o golden_a candlestick_n differ_v from_o one_o another_o but_o per_fw-la formam_fw-la i_o know_v not_o which_o be_v this_o that_o our_o congregationall_a man_n speak_v of_o act._n 5.13_o of_o the_o rest_n dare_v none_o join_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d what_o be_v that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o glue_v they_o to_o the_o church_n they_o be_v not_o scare_v from_o own_v of_o christ_n or_o love_v of_o the_o disciple_n they_o may_v hear_v the_o apostle_n preach_v etc._n etc._n there_o be_v something_o express_v sure_a much_o more_o now_o when_o so_o many_o church_n the_o same_o word_n be_v use_v of_o the_o prodigal_a luke_n 15.15_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o covenant_n between_o master_n and_o servant_n be_v the_o glue_n that_o join_v each_o to_o other_o so_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v it_o must_v be_v here_o you_o tell_v i_o epistle_n epistle_n that_o the_o relation_n of_o christian_n one_o to_o another_o be_v not_o free_a but_o after_o a_o sort_n natural_a as_o that_o of_o father_n and_o child_n i_o be_v there_o speak_v of_o church-government_n how_o we_o come_v to_o have_v power_n etc._n etc._n now_o it_o seem_v by_o you_o it_o be_v as_o natural_a for_o any_o christian_n to_o be_v under_o my_o power_n in_o particular_a and_o this_o church_n in_o particular_a as_o for_o a_o child_n to_o be_v under_o his_o father_n government_n and_o i_o may_v natural_o claim_v this_o official_a power_n over_o he_o whether_o he_o will_v choose_v i_o or_o not_o nay_o though_o he_o declare_v he_o will_v not_o own_v i_o for_o a_o officer_n this_o be_v strange_a doctrine_n be_v his_o relation_n to_o i_o
natural_a as_o i_o be_o a_o officer_n or_o free_a as_o for_o the_o explicitenesse_n of_o the_o covenant_n i_o have_v see_v so_o much_o order_n and_o comeliness_n in_o church_n by_o reason_n of_o it_o that_o if_o i_o can_v ever_o attain_v it_o i_o will_v and_o so_o will_v m_o gawdry_n have_v he_o see_v what_o i_o have_v seeen_n in_o n._n england_n yet_o i_o will_v not_o null_a all_o church_n for_o want_n of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n i_o can_v distinguish_v between_o esse_fw-la and_o melius_fw-la esse_fw-la m._n hudson_n shall_v wind_v up_o all_o 19_o vi●dici_fw-la cath._n pag._n 19_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o mutual_a consent_n of_o person_n within_o such_o a_o vicinity_n to_o join_v together_o constant_o in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n under_o the_o inspection_n of_o such_o and_o such_o officer_n be_v requisite_a to_o a_o particular_a congregation_n now_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o examine_v a_o little_a what_o you_o have_v write_v against_o reverend_a m._n hooker_n since_o the_o providence_n of_o god_n have_v join_v i_o with_o so_o holy_a and_o learned_a a_o man_n o_o that_o i_o have_v his_o mantle_n much_o of_o his_o discourse_n fall_v in_o with_o i_o and_o so_o your_o answer_n to_o he_o serve_v against_o i_o but_o that_o part_n i_o shall_v let_v alone_o his_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o person_n none_o confederate_a 12._o survey_v part_n 3._o pag._n 11_o 12._o and_o so_o in_o our_o sense_n not_o member_n of_o the_o church_n do_v entitle_v their_o child_n to_o the_o seat_n of_o baptism_n be_v one_o of_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n their_o parent_n though_o godly_a be_v yet_o unwilling_a to_o come_v into_o church-fellowship_n you_o make_v very_o great_a use_n of_o these_o word_n that_o person_n non_fw-la confederate_n be_v in_o his_o sense_n no_o member_n of_o a_o church_n now_o sir_n let_v i_o move_v one_o question_n whether_o only_a person_n that_o be_v in_o explicit_a confederacy_n be_v to_o be_v esteem_v in_o m_o hooker_n sense_n member_n of_o a_o church_n if_o m._n hooker_n have_v express_v the_o contrary_a as_o he_o have_v most_o full_o pag._n 47_o 48._o of_o his_o first_o part_n and_o in_o preface_n pag._n 11._o where_o he_o say_v express_o the_o faithful_a congregation_n in_o england_n be_v true_a church_n then_o that_o can_v be_v m._n hokers_n sense_n in_o pag._n 47_o 48._o he_o show_v how_o the_o covenant_n be_v act_v after_o a_o double_a manner_n explicit_o and_o implicit_o and_o there_o show_v how_o it_o be_v act_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n then_o add_v this_o mr._n r._n can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o as_o our_o opinion_n and_o profess_a apprehension_n and_o i_o will_v entreat_v the_o reader_n to_o observe_v once_o for_o all_o that_o if_o he_o meet_v with_o such_o accusation_n such_o a_o accuser_n be_v mr._n cawdrey_n that_o we_o nullify_v all_o church_n beside_o our_o own_o that_o upon_o our_o ground_n receive_v there_o must_v be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o world_n but_o in_o new-england_n or_o some_o few_o observe_v this_o set_v up_o late_o in_o old_a that_o we_o be_v rigid_a separatist_n etc._n etc._n such_o bitter_a clamour_n a_o wise_a meek_a spirit_n pass_v by_o they_o as_o a_o unworthy_a and_o ungrounded_a aspersion_n etc._n etc._n then_o show_v that_o implicit_a and_o explicite_fw-la be_v but_o adjunct_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o in_o some_o case_n a_o implicit_a covenant_n may_v be_v sully_v sufficient_a can_v any_o man_n live_v speak_v more_o clear_o than_o mr._n hooker_n and_o can_v any_o man_n live_v speak_v more_o perverse_o than_o mr._n caw_n answ_n epistle_n to_o sob_v answ_n that_o mr_n hooker_n deny_v all_o church_n where_o there_o be_v not_o a_o explicit_a cowenant_n to_o return_v to_o his_o question_n two_o thing_n i_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o observe_v in_o it_o 1._o by_o person_n non-confederate_a he_o do_v not_o mean_a godly_a parent_n that_o be_v not_o confederate_a explicit_o but_o if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o true_a church_n walk_v in_o church_n fellowship_n though_o there_o be_v not_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n but_o implicit_a mr._n hooker_n do_v not_o look_v on_o these_o as_o fall_v under_o his_o question_n so_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o such_o now_o this_o be_v most_o clear_a by_o what_o i_o have_v allege_v out_o of_o he_o hence_o there_o be_v not_o one_o syllable_n of_o the_o word_n explicit_a put_v into_o the_o question_n and_o afterward_o the_o same_o page_n when_o mr._n hooker_n show_v why_o he_o incline_v to_o the_o negative_a be_v move_v thereto_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o church-govenant_a he_o do_v not_o say_v explicit_a church-covenant_n yet_o see_v how_o mr._n cawdrey_n interpret_v these_o word_n that_o be_v 185._o diatr_n 185._o indeed_o the_o necessity_n of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n and_o in_o page_n 184._o he_o have_v state_v the_o question_n thus_o whether_o the_o infant_n of_o believer_n not_o in_o covenant_n explicit_a with_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n may_v be_v baptize_v this_o be_v none_o of_o master_n hooker_n question_n hence_o first_o those_o argument_n which_o mr._n cawdrey_n have_v draw_v up_o in_o his_o diatr_n with_o mr._n hooker_n from_o the_o infant_n of_o the_o godly_a member_n of_o our_o church_n here_o in_o england_n they_o all_o labour_n with_o the_o disease_n call_v ignoratio_fw-la elenthi_n for_o he_o have_v change_v the_o question_n and_o do_v not_o speak_v ad_fw-la idem_fw-la 2._o hence_o second_o all_o that_o pain_n mr._n cawdrey_n spend_v to_o prove_v that_o child_n may_v be_v baptize_v by_o virtue_n of_o grandfather_n or_o adoption_n if_o he_o can_v make_v it_o out_o that_o they_o may_v be_v so_o yet_o if_o such_o a_o grandfather_n or_o person_n who_o adopt_v be_v confederate_a and_o walk_v in_o church-fellowship_n though_o not_o explicit_o confederated_a this_o do_v not_o trouble_v mr._n hooker_n question_n if_o that_o grandfather_n or_o person_n who_o adopt_v be_v not_o confederate_a than_o the_o question_n fall_v upon_o they_o indeed_o not_o else_o mr._n hooker_n question_v then_o concern_v only_o such_o godly_a parent_n as_o be_v member_n of_o no_o particular_a visible_a church_n and_o be_v no_o member_n but_o come_v to_o join_v with_o a_o church_n now_o the_o question_n will_v be_v what_o explicitenesse_n may_v be_v require_v 2._o the_o second_o thing_n i_o observe_v in_o his_o question_n be_v that_o the_o godly_a parent_n be_v unwilling_a to_o come_v into_o church-followship_a and_o here_o lie_v the_o pinch_n of_o the_o question_n but_o this_o plain_o imply_v that_o church_n fellowship_n be_v to_o be_v have_v and_o this_o person_n be_v require_v by_o he_o to_o who_o be_v offer_v his_o child_n to_o be_v baptize_v to_o join_v in_o church_n fellowship_n baptise_v act_n 5.13_o there_o be_v a_o church_n and_o join_v to_o it_o i_o doubt_v not_o before_o the_o apostle_n will_v baptise_v if_o church_n fellowship_n be_v not_o to_o be_v have_v then_o how_o shall_v his_o willingness_n or_o unwil_n inguesse_fw-mi be_v know_v let_v there_o be_v a_o object_n bonum_fw-la or_o malum_fw-la which_o the_o will_n shall_v choose_v or_o reject_v hence_o than_o if_o there_o can_v be_v no_o answer_n else_o give_v to_o what_o mr._n ca._n urge_v from_o the_o jailor_n who_o be_v baptize_v though_o not_o confederate_a this_o trouble_v not_o the_o question_n if_o there_o be_v no_o church_n which_o do_v require_v he_o to_o join_v in_o fellowship_n have_v there_o b●en_o a_o church_n in_o philippi_n and_o paul_n have_v require_v he_o to_o join_v in_o fellowship_n with_o the_o church_n and_o the_o jailor_n will_v not_o then_o indeed_o mr._n ca_o have_v bring_v something_o against_o mr._n hooker_n if_o paul_n will_v have_v baptize_v he_o but_o yet_o mr._n ca._n will_v force_v it_o upon_o mr._n hooker_n that_o he_o must_v mean_v it_o of_o a_o explicit_a confederacy_n whether_o he_o will_v or_o no_o 5._o diatr_n p._n 200._o mr._n stone_n know_v his_o mind_n vid._n ch_n 5._o yea_o though_o he_o have_v express_o speak_v to_o the_o contrary_a but_o what_o be_v his_o ground_n this._n in_o n._n england_n say_v he_o they_o refuse_v to_o admit_v either_o our_o member_n though_o godly_a to_o the_o lord_n supper_n or_o their_o child_n to_o baptism_n unless_o they_o enter_v their_o express_a covenant_n this_o be_v the_o ground_n one_o passage_n i_o observe_v you_o call_v the_o godly_a one_o our_o member_n but_o do_v you_o look_v on_o they_o as_o your_o member_n who_o be_v go_v 3000._o mile_n from_o you_o never_o to_o see_v you_o more_o where_o you_o can_v never_o have_v any_o inspection_n over_o they_o let_v they_o walk_v as_o they_o will_v i_o be_o sure_a they_o do_v not_o think_v you_o be_v their_o officer_n nor_o do_v call_v you_o so_o how_o then_o they_o shall_v be_v still_o your_o member_n i_o can_v tell_v let_v therefore_o mr._n hooker_n speak_v for_o himself_o
first_o be_v fall_v yet_o for_o you_o have_v yield_v the_o argument_n i_o pray_v what_o be_v the_o question_n i_o must_v set_v it_o down_o because_o of_o these_o two_o answer_n you_o give_v to_o my_o two_o next_o argument_n which_o you_o mighty_o contemn_v contrary_a they_o do_v but_o say_v they_o believe_v in_o he_o when_o whole_a conversation_n manifest_v the_o contrary_a the_o q._n be_v whether_o be_v this_o bare_a profession_n of_o say_v in_o christ_n for_o thousand_o in_o england_n do_v but_o bare_o say_v it_o that_o they_o believe_v in_o he_o they_o know_v nothing_o of_o faith_n nor_o of_o christ_n only_o the_o name_n such_o a_o one_o their_o father_n or_o some_o body_n tell_v they_o of_o i_o give_v you_o some_o instance_n before_o tho_o parent_n be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandulous_a and_o refuse_v to_o subject_n to_o church_n discipline_n sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o man_n and_o continue_v he_o a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n the_o first_o argument_n stand_v as_o yet_o my_o second_o argument_n be_v this_o if_o this_o bare_a profession_n be_v sufficient_a then_o nonen_fw-mi can_v be_v cast_v out_o for_o the_o vile_a sin_n heresy_n etc._n etc._n because_o he_o be_v the_o same_o now_o as_o when_o he_o be_v admit_v you_o answer_v the_o consequence_n be_v unsound_a and_o the_o proof_n like_o it_o you_v be_v very_o nimble_a methinks_v but_o why_o so_o unsound_a for_o when_o he_o be_v first_o admit_v upon_o his_o profession_n no_o such_o scandal_n appear_v but_o now_o it_o do_v there_o he_o be_v not_o the_o same_o that_o he_o be_v when_o admit_v to_o this_o i_o say_v by_o profession_n you_o either_o mean_v such_o a_o profession_n as_o you_o have_v mention_v above_o in_o this_o page_n as_o i_o think_v you_o do_v and_o so_o you_o speak_v not_o ad_fw-la idem_fw-la or_o if_o you_o mean_v such_o a_o profession_n as_o the_o question_n stare_v mention_n than_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o so_o for_o either_o gross_a ignorance_n or_o scandal_n do_v appear_v unless_o you_o mean_v that_o just_a at_o that_o time_n when_o he_o come_v to_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o he_o do_v believe_v in_o christ_n be_v do_v not_o manifest_v any_o scan_v ●ll_o to_o you_o be_v not_o drink_v or_o do_v not_o swear_v or_o show_v uncleanness_n etc._n etc._n just_a a●_n that_o time_n for_o so_o those_o who_o come_v to_o require_v baptism_n for_o their_o child_n do_v not_o come_v drink_v or_o swear_v etc._n etc._n in_o that_o very_o instant_a time_n but_o before_o they_o came_v you_o will_v and_o when_o the_o child_n be_v baptize_v can_v swear_v etc._n etc._n and_o it_o be_v well_o if_o divers_a be_v not_o drink_v if_o they_o have_v boon_n companion_n to_o join_v with_o some_o have_v be_v little_o better_o so_o that_o for_o all_o your_o haste_n the_o argument_n be_v sound_v enough_o but_o so_o be_v no●_n your_o answer_n the_o three_o argument_n you_o say_v be_v like_o the_o former_a very_o weak_a i_o pray_v leave_v out_o ve●y_o and_o let_v weak_a be_v enough_o it_o be_v possible_a it_o will_v not_o prove_v weak_a what_o be_v the_o argument_n a_o rebel_n oppose_v christ_n in_o his_o visible_a kingdom_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o because_o no_o subject_n you_o answer_v be_v be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v admit_v if_o no_o member_n before_o sir_n what_o be_v the_o q._n whether_o be_v such_o a_o bare_a profession_n etc._n etc._n fit_a to_o make_v etc._n etc._n to_o make_v a_o member_n then_o this_o be_v not_o sit_v your_o pen_n have_v affirm_v but_o then_o the_o argument_n be_v not_o very_o weak_a but_o very_o strong_a to_o prove_v one_o part_n of_o the_o question_n yourself_o acknowledge_v it_o in_o your_o first_o word_n and_o so_o you_o have_v do_v before_o p._n 16._o but_o say_v you_o he_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v continue_v till_o trial_n of_o reformation_n be_v pass_v sir_n you_o say_v above_o in_o this_o page_n that_o a_o bare_a profession_n with_o the_o mouth_n that_o he_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n though_o visible_o he_o live_v like_o a_o infidel_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o qualify_v a_o man_n to_o be_v make_v or_o continue_v a_o member_n the_o question_n speak_v of_o such_o a_o bare_a profession_n if_o you_o will_v say_v a_o moral_a conversation_n though_o gross_o ignorant_a will_v serve_v the_o turn_n there_o have_v be_v as_o good_a and_o now_o be_v among_o infidel_n and_o those_o who_o do_v profess_v christ_n for_o drunkenness_n swear_v etc._n etc._n uncleanness_n lie_v steal_v disobedience_n to_o parent_n when_o grow_v up_o etc._n etc._n be_v as_o bad_a and_o worse_o than_o infidel_n indian_n will_v shame_v they_o so_o that_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o his_o professton_n be_v not_o that_o which_o do_v continue_v he_o a_o church_n menber_v but_o the_o church_n continuance_n or_o impotency_n if_o the_o church_n go_v about_o to_o reform_v and_o can_v not_o as_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o hierarchy_n if_o it_o be_v the_o sufficiency_n of_o his_o profession_n keep_v he_o in_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v you_o may_v let_v he_o alone_o when_o power_n be_v in_o your_o hand_n to_o cast_v he_o out_o most_o of_o this_o page_n be_v speak_v to_o before_o 18._o page_n 18._o only_o to_o two_o proposition_n as_o you_o call_v they_o of_o i_o you_o answer_v that_o which_o constitute_v a_o church_n continue_v a_o church_n if_o then_o a_o bare_a profession_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o member_n nor_o be_v it_o enough_o to_o continue_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n you_o answer_v both_o proposition_n be_v faulty_a the_o minor_a for_o we_o have_v prove_v that_o a_o profession_n of_o faith_n nothing_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a will_v constitute_v a_o member_n and_o so_o a_o church_n of_o many_o member_n though_o all_o hypocrite_n but_o sir_n the_o profession_n of_o faith_n you_o speak_v of_o here_o be_v not_o the_o profession_n of_o faith_n the_o question_n speak_v of_o for_o the_o question_n speak_v of_o such_o a_o profession_n as_o have_v gross_a ignorance_n or_o open_a scandal_n appeat_v therefore_o you_o speak_v not_o ad_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o all_o hypocriter_n there_o be_v as_o m._n car●wright_n say_v difference_n between_o tare_n and_o acorn_n goat_n and_o swine_n the_o major_n be_v faulty_a say_v you_o because_o more_o be_v require_v to_o a_o first_o admission_n 19_o page_n 19_o then_o to_o a_o continuance_n in_o the_o church_n as_o be_v evident_a in_o man_n of_o year_n convert_v from_o infidel_n a_o personal_a profession_n of_o faith_n be_v necessary_a to_o such_o but_o their_o child_n be_v admit_v and_o continue_v without_o it_o sir_n you_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o more_o be_v require_v to_o the_o admission_n than_o the_o continuance_n of_o the_o same_o person_n speak_v ad_fw-la idem_fw-la there_o shall_v seem_v rather_o that_o more_o be_v require_v to_o continuance_n then_o admission_n for_o be_v long_o under_o mean_n he_o shall_v have_v attain_v more_o in_o that_o time_n than_o he_o have_v when_o first_o admit_v you_o say_v child_n be_v admit_v and_o continue_v without_o personal_a profession_n i_o grant_v it_o but_o admit_v it_o seem_v they_o be_v and_o sure_o that_o be_v because_o they_o be_v repute_v in_o the_o parent_n for_o visible_a saint_n holy_a 1_o cor._n 7._o but_o now_o holy_a sit_v matter_n for_o a_o church_n let_v they_o continue_v such_o as_o they_o be_v repute_v to_o be_v at_o their_o admission_n and_o it_o be_v well_o enough_o no_o more_o shall_v be_v require_v or_o it_o there_o be_v any_o difference_n it_o be_v this_o more_o be_v require_v to_o their_o continuance_n for_o they_o to_o their_o admission_n be_v require_v to_o be_v but_o visible_a saint_n by_o virtue_n of_o their_o parent_n repute_v such_o for_o their_o sake_n but_o for_o their_o continuance_n they_o must_v when_o grow_v up_o manifest_a actual_o they_o be_v such_o or_o else_o be_v cast_v out_o so_o more_o be_v require_v for_o continuance_n then_o admission_n and_o so_o your_o proposition_n be_v false_a for_o your_o last_o clause_n in_o that_o paragraph_n there_n be_v another_o way_n to_o reform_v a_o constitute_v church_n but_o corrupt_v than_o first_o to_o constitute_v a_o church_n viz._n discipline_n i_o know_v not_o what_o sense_n to_o make_v of_o it_o i_o suppose_v there_o be_v some_o ●●our_n in_o the_o printer_n but_o i_o find_v no_o errata_fw-la print_v and_o so_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o say_v to_o it_o i_o say_v let_v discipline_n be_v exercise_v and_o so_o the_o church_n reduce_v to_o their_o first_o constitution_n viz._n to_o be_v such_o as_o church_n ought_v to_o be_v i●perceive_v your_o next_o head_n be_v to_o oppose_v this_o you_o have_v no_o government_n settle_v you_o may_v have_v it_o if_o you_o will_v as_o i_o say_v before_o party_n refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o it_o say_v you_o than_o