it which is not a little fault in determining contraverted points while as he speaks thus allowed mater of the Visible Church For mater of a Visible Church may be said to be allowed in a double sense or relation viz. either in regard of what is incumbent to a man himself by way of duty before God or in regard of what is requisite in him by way of qualification in the outward Ecclesiastick Court whereupon the Church may and ought to proceed in admitting him to the externall communion of the Church I confesse that none are mater of a Visible Church allowed in the former sense or relation but such as are not only so far as men most spirituall can discern or judge but also in very deed true converts and beleevers It s a mans duty in professing Christianity and adjoyning himself to the Church of Christ to beleeve with his heart as he professeth with his mouth otherwise he is matter not approven not allowed of God But I beleeve its another thing to enquire what is mater of the Visible Church allowed in the latter sense and thinks that advised men among our Brethren of the Independent way will say the same in the generall Yet I trow it shall be found afterward that the strength and stream of our Authors Arguments runs in the former and so are little to the purpose of the Controversie between us and our Brethren touching the mater of the Visible Church section 7 To make way for a more clear discovery of this and to the effect we may in the whole ensueing disput know what we are doing and not fight in the dark Andabatarum more it is necessary before we proceed further to open up and bound the state of the controversie which Mr. Lockier hes not done I cannot tell upon what intention or if upon any design at all and not rather out of pure neglect or some other such thing If he say he was Preaching to people and not Disputing in the Schoole and that therefore it was not needfull nor becoming Scholastically to state a controversie I Answ Whether in Pulpit or Schoole his purpose was to draw his hearers of this Nation from a Doctrine which they had learned and professed before the world to a new way Sure ingenuous dealing would have required that the Doctrine of this Church which he intended to refute and to take them off should been once at least plainly and simply propounded and presented before them This he doth not all along but in effect speaks so indirectly as if we allowed all meer professours whatsoever to be members of the Visible Church Well what he hes not done we shall endeavour according to our weaknesse to do and shall deal more liberally with his side then he hes done with ours Now then let these considerations be premised section 8 1. Let it be considered that this controversie is not about the Members of the Mysticall Invisible Church or of the Church according to its inward state but of the Members of the Visible Church as such or of the Church according to its external state The Church Mysticall Invisible or according to its inward state is the societie of men effectually called unto saving communion with Christ to which doth belong in the intention and purpose of God all the promises of spirituall blessings pertaining to life and salvation The Church Visible and considered according to its externall state is the societie of men professing true Christian faith and Religion for communion in the outward exercises of the Worship and Ordinances of God Admission of members into the Church Invisible is the work of God by the operation of the Spirit in Effectuall Calling and ingraffing men into Christ Admission of members into the Church Visible and according to its externall state is committed to the Pastors and Rulers of the Church who being men and so not seeing the inward constitution and condition of hearts must look at things obvious to the senses in their administration of this work Whence one may be orderly and lawfully admitted a member of the Church Visible who is not a member of the Church Invisible And about this our adversaries I conceive at least such as are most sound and intelligent amongst them will make no controversie Further it is to be observed that the question and controversie between us and the Independent Brethren much differs from that which is debated between the Papists and the orthodox concerning Church-members The state of thâ— controversie with Papists which they and namely Bellarmine involve with many Sophismes is truely and really this as the judicious Ames hes well observed Bellar. Enerv. lib. 2. de Ecclesia cap. 1. thesi 10 others have not so well considered whether the whole multitude of professours comprehending as well unregenerate hypocrites and reprobats as true elect believers be that Church of Christ to which properly doth belong all these excellent things spoken of the Church in Scripture viz. that it is redeemed by Christ the Body of Christ the Spouse of Christ quickened acted and led by tâ—e Holy Spirit partakers of all the spirituall blessings so that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it Albeit Papists dare not state the question in these terms yet the affirmative thereof is the thing they intend that they might obtain a Catholick Visible Church at all times illustriously visible infallible and unfailable and that there Romane is it But it is a far other matter that is debated between us and our present adversaries viz. what persons are to be admitted and accounted to belong to the Church Visible according to its outward state So that these who shall make use of Arguments used by Orthodox Writers in shewing that not wicked hypocrites and reprobates but only the elect true beleevers are members of Christs Church against us for affirming that all who outwardly do seriously professe the Christian faith are to be admitted and accounted members of the Visible Church they are clearly in a great mistake and impertinency section 9 2. Consider we are to distinguish Visible Church-membership in actu primo and in actu secundo I must crave leave to use these terms and shall explain what I mean by them By the actus primus of Church-membership I mean such a state and condition of a person as makes that now he is not to be reckoned and looked upon by the Church Pastors or Professours as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. without but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not as a stranger and alien but as a Brother 1 Cor. 5. 11 12. And consequently may and ought to be overseen cared for and fed by the Pastours and Rulers of the Church as a part of the flock and by private professours dealt with in duties of Christian fellowship according to their and his capacitie The actus secundus of Visible Church-membership is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fruitio i. e. the fruition and actuall use of Church priviledges ordinancâ—
There seemeth to me in Mr. Lockiers words here somewhat very like the Arminian apostacy of Saints while you hold fast saith he the practice and power of what you professe and when you let it go c. is he indeed of this judgement that men may have the practice and power of godlinesse and afterward let it go If he say he meaneth of such as have had it so far as men could judge c. well this qualification if in any place should have been mentioned here where without it there might be so readily an apprehension of apostacy from true grace But tell me doth the Apostle when he saith if ye hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of hope firm unto the end mean thus if ye have and hold fast these things so far as men can judge What vestigium of this appeareth in the Text Nay is not the Apostle in that whole Chapter speaking of grace to be performed and held fast in veritati rei * Which if he wil have to be the requisite qualification of the matter of of the visible Church in the Ecclesiastick Court he may as soon get a Visible Church as a new World in the Moon or Mr Mores Vtopia in very deed Was there ever any Interpreter that expoundeth him otherwise SECTION IV. The Authors Texts which he calls hints and shadows of his Doctrine section 1 THe first is Mat. 16. on which place the Author thus note these things 1. That Christ doth not speak here of the Invisible Church For he speaks of the power of the keyes binding and loosing on earth the Invisible Church is the greatest part in heaven and they which are in earth considered as one with them as one intire universall Body whereof Christ is the Head are not capable of Visible and limited Discipline therefore I judge we are to gather from Christs Words that he speaks by way of anticipation of that visible order which he did purpose to institute after his departure by his Apostles whereof Peter was one 2. Observe of what mater he saith this building should be viz. of such as have a faith which flesh and bloud cannot reveal and to a body thus constitute is the power of the keyes and both these represented and personated to us in Peter I do not find the learned and Orthodox of latter times apply this place to the Invisible Church and I think I am not then a forcer of the Scripture in the sense I gave of it section 2 Answer I wonder much how this has fallen from the Authors mouth and Pen that he saith he doth not find the learned and Orthodox of latter times to apply this place to the Invisible Church Do not all the learned and Orthodox Writing against the Papists on the Controversie of the Church refute the Papists expounding it of the Visible Church and prove it to be understood of the Invisible Church and every member thereof and do not the learned Orthodox commonly Writing against the Arminians upon the controversie of perseverance apply it to the Invisible Church and use it as one of the prime Arguments for proving the certain finall perseverance of true Beleevers See these noted on the Margin Whittaker de Ecclesia centies notentur praesertim illa loca q 1. c 1. Ecclesia aliquando totum corpus electorum fidelium sanctorum significat ut cùm in Symbolo dicitur Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam sic in hoc loco Math. 16. 18. c. 13. par 1. per tot q. 2. c. 1. he propoundeth the Question with the Papists thus De Ecclesiâ in Petra aedificatâ quaeritur inter adversarios nos sitne visibilis an invisibilis And part 3. he determines according to the Protestant Doctrine that it is invisibilis c. 2. Bellarminus dicit Calvinum non potuisse unum Scripturae locum proferre ubi nomen Ecclesiae invisibili Congregationi tribueretur Resp inquit falsum hoc esse nam Ecclesia aliquanâ—o invisibilem Congregationem significat ut in hoc ipso loco quem tractamus Super hanc Petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam q. 3. c. 2. §. 2. 2 â— Adversargumentum sumitur ex iis locis in quibus nomen Ecclesiae expersse ponitur ut Math. 16. 18. 1 Tim. 3. 15. in utroque loco inquit Adversarius agitari de Ecclesia visibili tamen ipsam veritatem audivimus asserentem portas inferorum non praevalituras Resp inquit Whitt illam quidem Ecclesiam de qua loquitur Christus nunquam posse deficere sed quod assumit illam Ecclesiam de qua loquitur Christus esse visibilem illud affirmo esse falsissimum Here is a plain and round contradiction to M â— Lockiers note upon this place Joan. Alsted suppl Chamier de Eccles nat l. 1. c. 17. par 2. Resp 2. Duo ista loca N. Math. 16. 18. 1 Tim. 3. 15. agunt de Ecclesia Catholica invisibili seu interna quae constat ex solis bonis neque enim Ecclesia visibilis quae constat ex bonis malis est fundata super Petram Anton. Wall Loc. Com. de Ecclesia militant on the question An Ecclesia possit errare in Ans to the 2d. Obj. of Papists upon this place Math 16. 18. Negamus inquit hunc locum esse intelligendum de Ecclesia visibili sed universali invisibili cui proprie competit haec firmitas insuperabilis The Orthodox in Colloq Hagien and Amesius in his Coron presse it as a prime place for the perseverance of Saints We might instance very many moe but we need not the thing is known to all acquainted in Orthodox Writers Nay some eminent Papists themselves have acknowledged that is spoken not of the Visible Church but of the Invisible Ferus non loquitur de Ecclesiâ ut communiter sumitur pro his qui Christiani dicuntur sive boni sint sive mali sed de Ecclesiâ secundum Spiritum quae solos electos complectitur So Cajetan on the same place Adversus Ecclesiam quae constat ex Congregatione fidelium unâ side spe charitate c. Mr. Lockiers reason brought to prove that it is not spoken of the Church Invisible is but weak which will appear the better if it be put into form for it is somewhat confusedly propounded by himself as I conceive it may be thus That Church is understood here which is capable of visible limited Disciplin but the Church Invisible is not capable of this Therefore c. Ans 1. How is the Major or first Proposition proven By insinuation thus He speaks of the power of the keyes binding and loosing on earth What thence Ergo he speaks before of such a Church as is capable of visible limited Discipline If I deny the Consequence how will he prove it I do not see it nor think he shall ever be able to make it out 2. But to passe the Proposition let 's see the proof of the Assumption The
Invisible Church is the greatest part in Heaven and they which are in earth as one with them as one entire universall body whereof Christ is the Head are not capable of c. Ans 1. That part of the universall Church which is in Heaven is impertinently brought on the stage here Christ is speaking of those that are yet to be built or are a building therefore we say He is speaking of such as are on earth 2. Albeit that part of the Invisible Church that is on earth be not capable of visible and limited Discipline formally considered as such i. e. as the Invisible Church nor yet collectively considered as one intire body yet the Invisible Church materially i. e. these that are the Invisible Church being also a part of the Church visible and considered distributively in parrs may be capable of visible Discipline David Peter John and the rest who make up the Church Invisible as they are also outward Professours with others are capable of visible Discipline O! then you will say why Are they not spoken of here I will build my Church as they are a visible Church Ans It doth not necessarly follow for to persons standing under diverse considerations one thing may be attributed according to one consideration and another according to another section 3 As to his 2d. Observation 1. It is contrair in it self to Truth that the visible Church is to consist only of such as have a faith he means fidem quâ creditur or taken subjectivè for we shal grant it of faith quae creditur or taken objectivè which flesh and blood cannot reveal i. e. true saving faith The Church may consist of such as have not that faith and the Author addeth not here his qualification of so far as men can judge neither can it be admitted here 2. Qualifie it as he will it is a meer violenting of the Text sundry Interpretations by diverse have been given on these words Vpon this Rock will I build my Church but I think few or none ever before our Author gave such an interpretation as this The visible Church shall be constitute only of such as have true saving faith in them so far as men can judge Certainly whether we take the Church Invisible or the Church Visible to be meant here under the name of the Church Mr. Lockiers sense cannot have place For 1. Understanding by the name of Church the Church Invisible in that sentence Vpon this Rock will I build my Church Christ is not speaking of gathering and constituting a certain incorporation or society in the state and condition of such an incorporation or society and how persons of whom it is to be made up must be antecedently qualified that they may be capable of admission to be constituent members thereof but speaking of his own act of efficacious grace put forth in deed with the Ministry of the Gospel upon the hearts of some persons whom he cals his Church because they are called out from amongst the rest of the world to himself which doth not suppose them antecedently having faith and taking them as such state them in a society But indeed is the very giving to them that faith and stating them in an impregnable condition of grace and salvation Whether by this Rock we understand that faith which Peter confessed or Christ the object of that faith or Peter himself considered in regard of his Ministry of the Gospel or the Gospel Preached by him as some of the Orthodox do certainly this is the meaning of building the Church upon the Rock supposing that which I do incline most to with the most part of Reformed Divines that by the Church is meant the Church Invisible 2. If by the name of the Church here be understood the Church Visible as some later Orthodox Divines have expounded it namely judicious and learned Hudson in his acurate and elaborate Vindication of the Essence and Vnity of the Catholick Visible Church Yet it will little avail Mr. Lockiers purpose 1. Because it is a particular Congregation and the qualification of members to be admitted thereunto that he is speaking of all along under the name of a visible Church But supposing this place to speak of the visible Church it cannot be understood of a particular visible Church or Congregation but must of necessity be understood of the Catholick visible Church because it is such a Church as is to stand firm and impregnable that the gates of hell cannot prevail against it but any particular Church may be prevailed against 2. Taking the name of the Church so here the meaning of the whole sentence upon this Rock I will build my Church is nothing else but this as the learned Author but now cited well observeth that the Profession and Doctrine of this Truth that the Messiah is already come that this Jesus is the Messiah this Jesus the Messiah is the Son of God the Doctrine and confession that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh 1 Joh. 4. 2 3. and the beleeving that I am he saith Christ Joh. 8. 24. is the foundation whereon the Church of the New Test is to be built out of all which nothing more can follow as to the qualification of members of the visible Church of the New Test then this that when as the Jews under the Old Test beleeved in an indefinite Messiah to come now under the New Test none can be of the Christian Church but such as beleeves and confesses that the Messiah is come c. Now I appeal to all the Orthodox World if Mr. Lockier his commenting upon this place be not a forcing of the Text. As for what he addeth that to a body thus constitute i. e. a Visible Church so constitute as he hes been saying is the power of the keyes given and both these represented and personated to us in Peter To passe I cannot well understand how it can be said that the power of the keyes could be represented and personated in Peter possibly the Church might be represented and personated in him This belongeth not to our present Question and therefore we passe it now trusting with the Lords assistance afterward to evidence that both assertions viz. that the power of the keyes were given to a Church Visible I mean the collective Church and so to it is as the subject and that Peter in receiving them here did represent and personat the Church are groundlesse section 4 The next shadow or hint is Rev. 11. 1 2. And there was given me a Reed c. Hereupon the Author maketh much adoe 1. He layeth down grounds by Interpreting particulars in the words 1. Saith he by the Temple is meant the Visible Church the state and welfare of which though most infested of any publick condition shall not be left and ruined but be carefully looked to and raised from its corruptions intrusions and ruines made by unsound men This is confirmed by a Testimony of Marlorat hunc in
upon them but these viz. over whom Elders and Officers are set to attend and feed c. are called the Church Redeemed with the Blood of God The conclusion is suppressed but according to the terms of the premisses It can be no other then this Ergo the Church here spoken of must needs be visible And this we may and do grant and yet without any prejudice or disadvantage for that may well stand with this assertion that only the Elect or the Church Invisible are intended by that name Church when it is said there to be bought by the blood of God For why because the Elect or Invisible Church is visible i. e. persons seen and obvious to the outward senses Physically visible and certainly Mr. Hooker speaks of no more in his Major and the proof thereof unlesse they do see them and know them c. the thing that he should have concluded was this Ergo they are called redeemed by the blood of God as the visible Church or according to their Visible Church state but that will not be inferred upon his premisses If any man will say his argument may be upon the terms taken in it mended and urged to the point thus These over whom Officers and Elders are set to attend and feed by Doctrine and Discipline must needs be a Visible Church and that considered according to its Visible State and as Visible but these over whom Elders and Officers are set c. are called the Church Redeemed by the Blood of God Ergo these called the Church Redeemed c. must needs be a Church Visible and that as such and considered according to its Visible State Then I say yet the conclusion toucheth not us for these that are called the Church Redeemed may be granted to be a Church Visible and that considered as visible viz. in relation to some other adjunct of it distinct from that epithet contained in the subject of the conclusion viz. the denomination of Redeemed by the Blood of God and this argument as thus formed carrieth no more But yet if one shall infer the conclusion thus Ergo. these are called the Church Redeemed by the blood of God as a Church Visible or considered according to their Visible Church state Then I say this putteth the Syllogisme out of the wits and whole frame of it takes the medium into the conclusion for the minus extremum or attribute of the assumption for the Syllogisme is in the third figure and jumbles the majus extremum and minus extremum the attribute of the Major Proposition and the attribute of the assumption together in the attribute of the conclusion and so makes the Syllogism in whole to consist of four terms in a word let any man take these premises of Mr. Hookers mend them shape and change them as he will he shall never be able to infer the conclusion that should be inferred to his purpose that the Church Visible is called the redeemed by the blood of God as it is visible or according to its visible state section 9 But saith he if any man say that the Elect are only there intended by that name I answer that conceit is contrary to the very strain of the words and scope of the Text for they must attend 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the whole flock The charge puts no difference between person and person nor most their care be different nay upon this ground the Elders should not know what their care was nor upon whom they should bestow it for they might reply Lord we cannot search into thy secrets who are Elect and Invisible Saints we cannot discern them and therefore we cannot tell how to feed them whereas by the current and common sense of the Scriptures taking redeemed and sanctified as visibly though not really such the stream of the Text runneth pleasantly without the least appearance of doubt Answ 1. Reverend Mr. Hooker affirmeth more then he proves well in calling that answer a conceit contrary to the stream of the words and scope of the Text. His first Argument comes to this much All these are of the Church which is said to be redeemed by the blood of God whom the Elders and Officers are required to attend But the Apostle requires them to attend all the flock without putting difference between person and person ergo all the flock i. e. every one of the Visible Church are of that Church which is said to be redeemed c. Ans What ever might be said of his Interpretation of the flock to be the Visible Church as Visible we deny the necessity of the Major Proposition The flock as it is the object of the Ministers externall charge and administration of Ordinances may be of a larger extent and comprehension then is the signification of the Church as it standeth under that attribute of being redeemed by the blood of God And that you may see that is not my conceit see it expresly given by worthy and Learned Whittaker in answer to Bellarmine proving that the Church is Visible from this very Text de Eccles q. 2. c. 2. Resp ad locum 5. particulares Ecclesiae such as was Ephesus of which the Apostle is speaking Christi Religionem profitentes dicuntur Ecclesia Synecdochicâ—s propter sanctos nimirum electos qui in iis sunt sed quia Pastores non possunt electos à reprobis discernere itaque totum caetum pascere regere curare debent judicium Deo relinquere where it is evident that this Learned Author understood that that whole Congregation or flock of the Ephesians which the Pastours are required to attend is called that Church which is redeemed not properly but synecdochically because of a part of it and that is in effect as much as to say not the whole flock but a part of it is the Church redeemed by the blood of God The second argument nay upon this ground the Elders should not know c. To say it with reverence to the memory of the Author is clearly to any body of common judgement exceedingly weak For 1. How followeth that if the Church redeemed by the blood of God be the Elect only then the Elders should not know what their care was nor upon whom they should bestow it for it must have this for a reason of it that Church which is said to be redeemed is the only object of the Elders care which they are required to attend This we deny we say they are part of it with Whittaker 2. How weak is that they might reply we cannot search into thy secrets to perceive who are Elect and therefore we cannot tell how to feed them Then it seems by the Reverend mans reasoning when our Lord laid that charge upon Peter Joh. 20. feed my Sheep my Lambs which are no other but these same he speaks of Joh. 10. 26 27. i. e. only elect ones v. 27 28 29. he might have replied Lord I cannot search thy secrets to know who are
But hence it followeth not that there must be such a homogenealnesse in the Church Visible as Mr. Lockier meaneth that it be endued with true faith and have the Spirit dwelling in their hearts And as to the reason of the connexion of the proposition we answer such a homogenealnesse is not requisite for such a derivation as is from a head politicall to its politicall body this derivation being only morall by commands prohibitions and the like morall actings But Christ is not a Head in the latter sense as the head in the naturall body is to the Church Visible as such nor is the Visible Church a body to him in this sense but only vocatione activâ and in externall profession Neither is that derivation from Christ unto the Church whereby it groweth up in the Lord unto the Church as a Visible Church or considered according to its visible constitution But unto the Church Invisible internall Mysticall as such section 5 His 2d Reason is thus shortlie If the Visible Church be the Church of the Living God the pillar and stay of truth and consequently such as should bear up the truth into the World and be a stay to truth holding it out firmly and faithfully in the midst of all tryalls and such as in which God lives and dwells and walks Then none can be mater or members of the Visible Church but real Saints For why Doth God live and dwell in dead persons who only make a Profession of Religion Will such persons be a stay to truth and the things of God Will they be a stay to truth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 firmamentum as the firmament to the stars who fall from Heaven themselves And so how can God have glory in the Church throughout all ages But the Visible Church is the Church of the Living God the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim. 3. 5. in which God lives dwells walks Ergo c. Ans Mr. Lockier still in this as in all his other Arguments shews that in propounding his Doctrine he added that qualification truely gracious so far as men can judge but dicis causa and in shew to avoid for a while the odium of the greatest Anabaptists Tenent of the mater or members of the Visible Church For such as may be gracious and Godly so far as men can judge mens judgement being not infallible in this as himself confesseth may be destitute of the power of Godlines in their hearts and so such as will not hold out truth firmly in the midst of all trials may be but dead persons and so such as in whom God doth not live walk and dwell 2. As to that first property and character attributed to a Visible Church from 1 Tim. 3. 15. by Mr. Lockier First I would aske him if in good earnest he meaneth that to be a property of a Visible Church rightly constitute in its mater as it should be that it will bear up the truth and things of God firmly and faithfully to the world in the midst of all trials Sure this is the very thing that Papists alledge from this place for the unerrabilitie and indefectibilitie of the Visible Church against which all Protestant Divines disputes Yea it is much more for Papists attribute this only to the Catholick Church Visible acknowledging that all particular Visible Churches may erre and make defection and let the truth and things of God fall down excepting only the Roman Church because they make it to be the Catholick Church virtually but Mr. Lockier acknowledges no Church Visible but an Independent Congregation and will have this to be the property of any particular Visible Church and therefore propounds the subject of his conclusion here thus a Church Visible i. e. any Visible Church now let me put him further to it either there was never a Church Visible rightly constitute for mater from the beginning seeing all the first constitute Churches have made defection and let truth fall down which if he say besides that it is absurd in it self I ask why then did he a little before bring us paterns of right constitute Churches from these first mentioned in Scripture Or if they were right constitute how comes it that they made defection and did not bear up and hold out the truth and things of God but did let them fall If he answer that came to passe because they kept not a right constitution for their mater I repone that taks not away the force of the Question For that same if it was so was a not bearing up and holding out firmly and faithfully the things of God and so the Question returneth upon this 2. But to answer directly to the place though Interpreters have some variety amongst themselves about the meaning of it Yet never one of them acknowledges that Interpretation which Mr. Lockier gives but opposeth it and refuteth it in Papists Some indeed expone the attribute the pillar and ground of truth much as he doth but these by the Church to which it is attributed undâ—rstand not the Visible Church but the Invisible of Elect. So Whittaker de Eccles q. 3. c. 2. illa quidem Ecclesia quae est columna firmamentum veritatis nunquam potest deficere Sed quod assumit adversarius illam Ecclesiam esse Visibilem illud affirmo esse falsissimum Invisibilem enim esse affirmo demonstro c. and often otherwhere Others again understand the subject as he doth by the Church to be meant the Visible Church of Ephesus but these expone the attribute the pillar and ground of truth not of what the Church Visible will do alwayes de facto but what is its duty and dignity elogium hoc Ecclesiae dignitatem officium describit Non autem quod in ea perpetuâ luce fulgeat Gomar specul ver Eccles c. 2. So Wal. loc com de Eccles milit Resp 1. Hoc dicitur de Ecclesia Ephesinâ que tamen periit 2. Ergo respectu officii sic vocatur See more concerning this place in learned Gomar in the place cited also in his commentar upon the Gallatians c. 2. in the second Tome of his works pag. 244 245. where you have an excellent discourse of the diverse Orthodox Interpretations thereof both ancient and moderne Divines We passe here Camer Interpretation of this place joining these words pillar and ground of truth not with that which goeth before but that which followeth section 6 For the 2d property and character out of the 2 Cor. 6. 16. We Ans With all Protestant Divines that it is not the Visible but the Invisible Church that is the Temple of the living God in which he liveth dwelleth and walketh See Whittaker de Ecâ—ces q. 1 c. 11. pag. 442. To omit many other Arguments for proof of this take but this one from the Text the Temple of the Living God in this place is taken in such a sense as that it is spoken and praedicated of singular persons severally as well as collectively and joyntly But if it signifie the Visible Church
and acts of outward Christian fellowship This distinction is of necessary consideration in this controversie For it is certain one may be actually a member of the Visible Church in actu primo and yet not actually injoy the use and exercise of all and every Church priviledge and ordinance whereunto Church-membership gives him a right in habitu Because unto the fruition of the actuall exercise of some priviledge and ordinance there may be required an especiall condition which may be a man wanteth through some physicall incapacitie or some morall defect As under the Old Testament persons that were undoubted members of the visible Church of Israel yet might for some legall pollution as an issue of blood touching of a dead body c. been debarred from the publick Assemblies of the Church and Sacrifices for a time untill they were cleansed from the pollution according to order instituted by God So also one who is an acknowledged member of the Visible Church being overtaken with a scandalous fault and not carrying himself obstinatly but submitting himself may be kept from the actuall exercise and use of some Ordinances untill the scandall be sufficiently removed yet still as is acknowledged on all hands continue a Church-member in actu primo and it hath been constantly held by Orthodox Divines untill Anabaptists arose that Children under the Old Test being born in the Church were then and now being born in the Christian Church are even while under the years of discretion members of the Visible Church Although neither then they were nor now are capable of actuall use and exercise of all Church-priviledges and Ordinances Therefore it is one thing to enquire what is requisite to constitute one capable of Church-membership simpliciter and in actu primo and another to enquire what is requisite to make one immediatly capable of actuall use and exercise of all and every Church-priviledge and Ordinance whereunto Church-membership doth entitle him section 10 3. Consider we must difference between that which is required of a man by way of duty in foro Dei that he may adjoyn himself unto Church-communion and participate Ordinances in such a manner as is necessary for his own salvation and approving himself to God and that which is required of him by way of qualification in foro Ecclesiastico that the Church may lawfully and orderly admit him to their externall communion and thereafter respect account and deal with him as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. amongst these that are within The reason of this distinction is clear because the duty of a man that will so adjoyn himself into the communion of the Church as is requisite for salvation and for approving himself therein to God doth no doubt reach formally and directly the inward man the frame and acting thereof But the qualification requisite in the Ecclesiastick Court whereupon the Church is to proceed in admitting or acknowledging men Church-members doth consist formally and directly at least only in somewhat outward and apparent to men For it is a sure rule de occultis non iudicat Ecclesia as is confessed by Hooker Survey Part. 1. c. 2. pag. 15. speaking of the same purpose and by Mr. Lockier himself pag. 55. section 11 4. Consider There is an holinesse relative or adherent and an holinesse absolute and inherent The holinesse relative and adherent consisteth in the separation of a thing from a common use and dedication of it unto some holy use or end Holinesse absolute or inherent consisteth in qualities or actions of a person agreeable to the Law of GOD. In the former way the stones of which the Temple was built are called stones of holinesse Lam. 4. 1. So the Temple it self the Vessels consecrated to the Worship of God the City of Jerusalem are called holy In like manner persons in a speciall way set apart for the Worship of God as the Priests and Levites and especially the High Priest are called holy In like manner the whole People of Israel are said to be holy Deut. 33. and to be sanctified by God Exod. 31. 13. Lev. 8. 8. and 21. 8. and 22. 32. Because to wit God by entering in Covenant with them had separated them from other people and Adopted them to be a peculiar People for himself in the same sense 1 Cor. 7. 14. The Children born of one Parent at least a beleever i. e. a Professour of Christian Religion are called holy because they are comprehended in the Covenant made with and imbraced by the Parents for themselves and theirs and so are to be esteemed as among Christians separated from prophane people and dedicated to God Again holinesse is either inward and true which consisteth in the inward renovation of the soul faith hope love and other supernaturall habites and their elicite acts Or externall which consisteth in the Profession of the true and Orthodox Religion and a conversation so far as comes under mens knowledge ordered according to the rule of Gods Commands as is competent to humane weaknesse i. e. without scandall at least contumacy and obstinacy in some given scandall and comprehendeth also in it that holinesse relative and of dedication Further it is worthy diligent observation here that when it is said the Church is a societie of visible saints this may be understood in a double sense for the Epithete visible may either be taken as a note signifying not the nature of the form which gives the denomination of Saints or holy but an adjunct thereof viz. the notoreitie and manifestation of it before men In which sense if it be taken in that description visible Saints are such as by outward manifest and evident signes and tokens are perceived and acknowledged to be endued with true inward holinesse and grace of regeneration Or it may be taken as a note signifying the very nature and kind of the form i. e. holinesse which giveth that denomination In which sense if it may be taken then men are said to be visible Saints in so far as they are adorned with externall holinesse although abstract from that internall and true grace of regeneration section 12 The state of the Controversie then lyeth in this to expresse it as plainly as I may what is requisite in a person as the necessary qualification in the Ecclesiastick Court whereupon he is to be received or acknowledged as a member of the Visible Church and is to be accounted as not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. among these that are without but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. among those that are within and so over whom the Pastors and Rulers of the Church should watch and care to feed him by the Ordinances of Christ according to his capacity and to whom private Christians ought to perform duties of Christian communion according to their stations viz. whether reall internall grace of regeneration repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ at least such evident signs thereof manifested and approven upon acurate examination
Passage of Scripture that holds forth a rule or warrand of any larger latitude touching admitting of members into the fellowship of the Visible Church then what is said of these Churches He must prove then the assertion in the latter sense viz. that these Churches were constitute of persons all truely godly as far c. formally considered as such and under no other consideration in their in-taking and being reckoned members in their outward visible societie If he could prove this of any one of them we should go over to his side of the controversie But now see how he proveth this nay all that is brought or can be brought by him is only this that the Apostle Writing to these Churches calleth them saints beleevers sanctified in Christ Iesus and the like which should we grant to mean inward true grace of regeneration and to be spoken not of the whole body collectively and confuse only giving the denomination of the whole from the better part but distributively of all and every one of them yet nothing else could necessarily be concluded from this but that they were such de facto and quo ad eventum and not that they were gathered and received into the externall fellowship of these Churches formally upon this and no other account that they were such reall internall truely regenerate saints The Apostles in the place cited speaks not nor intimates one word concerning the order of proceeding or account whereupon the proceeding was made in the visible externall constituting and setting up of these Churches or admitting of members into them neither doth Mr. Lockier so much as once assay to make a proofe of this point only after he hes cited some passages concerning the Corinthians he saith pag. 22. end and pag. 23. begin that these expressions should import that they did constitute gather together upon any other account but as there was the true grace of God evident as far as men could judge I cannot indeed see Alas 1. Is this to prove that which being the very main pinch of the Question to say no more for it but you cannot see how it was not done so 2. But I forbear to exaggerat this way of reasoning We are sure he might see in Scripture how persons were gathered and received into the fellowship of the Visible Church upon another account and trust by the Lords assistance ere we have done to let it be seen by such as will not shut their eyes upon the light of the Word Thus we have said already doth sufficiently discover the weaknesse and nullity of the inductive Argument to the point in controversie And I must say I wonder that Learned men such as I do with all respect acknowledge our Independent Brethren to be should have put such confidence in it section 3 But 2. Let 's see if he can prove that all these Churches were de facto and quo ad eventum constitute and made up of persons all truely Godly so far as Godly and discerning men could make judgement such as upon tryall would give evidence of the true grace of God in them as far as men could judge First then for the Romans is cited chap. 1. vers 6 7 8 9. where they are written to by Paul who surely was able to discern in spirituall maters and durst not complement with persons in things of eternall concernment under the styles of the called of Iesus Christ called Saints beloved of God these whose faith is spoken of through all the World and the Apostle writes to all that are at Rome and thanks God for them all and made mention of them all in his prayers Well what hence I cannot think saith he that a faith of so high esteem with Paul and of such renown through the Christian World and the mater of such servent Prayer should mean only a temporary faith Why Some of these were such as laid down their neck for Paul Rom. 16. 4. the rest surely in danger of their own necks every day by their profession living in the mouth of that Tyranne Nero as Paul calleth him it should be Lion or Dragon as Iohn calls all Heathen Emperours of that place Answ 1. We will not say it is a temporary faith he speaks of we grant it to be a saving persevering faith and for confirmation of this he might added a stronger ground from the Text then these he hath chosen that they are all called beloved of God and called Saints where as Estius noteth well intelligitur vocatio non communis externa c. i. e. is understood not common and outward calling but that whereby men are effectually called to faith holinesse and salvation which is the calling according to purpose and Predestination But now will Mr. Lockier or any man take upon them to say that Paul mean'd that all and every one in the Visible Church of Rome were such as had not a temporary faith only but a true saving faith and so were all and every one such as were to be undoubtedly saved I doubt he will hazard upon this assertion or if he will I doubt much if he shall have any other to bear him company in it May be he will say he intends not that but this that they were all and every one such so far as in his judgement he could discern and he was a man very able to discern in spirituall matters as he saith a little before But 1. This is an addition to the Text and how will he prove that it was Pauls mind to speak with such a qualification 2. He supposeth that Paul had acquaintance and experience of every one of them sufficient to discern what they were so doth that he saith import read Paul who surely was able to discern in spirituall matters But this behoved to have been by conversing with them coram and that he could not have it seemeth * Aret Rp. 1. 7 Calvin 1 Cor. 1 2. P. Mart. Rom. 1. 7. Calv. Gal. 1. 2 Er. Sar. cer Eph. 1. 1 Estius Rom. 1. 7. 1 Cor. 1 2. because he had not yet been at Rome to meet with every one of them there nor is it likely that every one of them had come from Rome and met with him otherwhere or he behoved to have it by communication by Letters from every one of them And what ground of conjecture have we for this I think to say it would be accounted a Dream As for report of every one of them and their severall evidences of grace by others 1. We have as little ground of conjecture for that though we find that there hes been great fame of their faith in common and in generall ver 8. 2. Report may be a ground of charitable beliefe I take beleef here in the generall logicall signification of it as it is contradistinguished from opinion and science but it cannot be a ground of a positive discretive judgement such as Mr. Lockier attributeth to Paul touching the Romanes faith for it
to be under Pastorall care and the Ministry of the Word If he could shew us this either in precept or approved practice we should soon yeeld and be at an end of this controverâ—…e But this he cannot nor ever will be able to shew and therefore the reasoning from the care and acuracy to be used in trying persons who are already in the Church in relation to admitting them to places of office unto admission of persons into the society of the Visible Church is unreasonable 5. When he saith that men are to be cast out by Excommunication when it doth evidently appear that they are hypocrites though not drunkards c. I desire 1. That it may be observed that an hypocrite may be taken in a double sense First for such an one as grossely and knowingly counterfeits a Profession of Christianity and so indeed is nothing else but an histrionicall stage-professor Secondly more largly for any that hath a profession of Christianity wherein may be he is morally serious but hath not within a Principle of true supernaturall saving grace Such are all unregenerate persons in the Church such an one was that young Man in the Gospel whom our Lord is said to have loved and the Lawyer of whom he said thou art not far from the Kingdome of Heaven Now if we speak of hypocrites in the former sense if men appear to be such I shall confesse that if they have been within they are to be cast out by Excommunication yet in the order that Christ hath prescribed after due admonition and evidence of obstinacy and incorrigiblenesse in the evill and of this I shall say more then Mr. Lockier viz. that it is far greater not only then drunkennesse and other such bodily sins simplie in genere peccati in the nature of sin But if it evidently appear also in genere scandali in the nature of scandall which is the ground and consideration upon which censure proceedeth because it is a very mocking of God in the highest degree But if we speak of hypocrites in the latter sense We deny utterly that every man appearing to be such is to be Excommunicated and casten out of the Societie of the Visible Church If a man professe seriouslie Religion submitting himself to Ordinances though there were appearance yea though it were revealed by God that yet he were not Regenerate and indued with true supernaturall Grace I say such an one were not to be excommunicate Let Mr. Lockier or any for him shew a warrand of Scripture for Excommunicating a man for non-regeneration The Doctrine of all Orthodox Divines hither till concerning the object of Excommunication and that grounded upon the Word of God is that which is shortly expressed by the Learned and Reverend Professours of Leyden Synop. pur theol Objectum circa quod exercetur haec Disciplina Ecclesiastica sunt illi qui fratres nominantur causa verò est vita prava vel Doctrina perversa nec ideo statim ubi quis frater nominatus in hujusmodi scandala incidit a corpore Ecclesiae excludi debet quemadmodum quibusdam Anabaptistis in usu est Sed post privatas demum publicas Ecclesiae admonitiones contemptas rejectas sicuti Christi verba aperte significant Mat. 18. disp 48. thes 25 26. And though drunkennesse and such like bodily-sins be lesse then hypocrisie in this sense i. e. non-regeneration simply and in genere peccati in the nature of sin yet it is not lesse in genere scandali in the kind of scandall and offence unto the Church Nay this hath not the nature of scandall at all 6. Yet Mr. Lockier according to the genius of his Doctrine ought to say not only men when it doth evidently appear that they are hypocrits but even if it doth not evidently appear that they are truly gracious and we cannot discern in them the power of godlinesse they are to be Excommunicate For his Doctrine is that none are fit mater to be admitted or permitted to constitute a Visible Church but such as are truely Godly so far as men truely Godly can judge and discern I beleeve most of the Independent way will disclaime him in this 7. Excommunication is an Ordinance to keep the house of God pure and according to what it ought to be in point of duety in foro exteriori and in order to salvation this we grant only in this sense that it is an Ordinance tending towards this as a means for this is an end of Excommunication that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus but not in this sense that the Church is obliged thereby to effectuate it quoad eventum this belongeth to God alone Excommunication is an Ordinance to keep the Church pure and according to what it ought to be in point of qualification in foro exteriori in order to externall Visible Church-state even quoad eventum But now what this qualification in foro exteriori in order to Church-state is is the thing in Question So Mr. Lockier in his reasoning from Excommunication to his Doctrine either alledgeth nothing to the purpose taking his antecedent in the former sense or begs the Question taking it in the latter 8. In the conclusion as propounded here First note If only reall Saints be the proper mater of a Visible Church and saving grace the complexion of it then all Saints so far as men can judge are not fit mater for these are not necessarily reall Saints simply 2. When as he saith not one known to be otherwise he should have said answerably to the former words no not one not known so far as men can judge to be such 3. Can justifiably enter may be conceived either in point of duty incumbent to themselves who enter and so the meaning is this men joyning themselves to the Visible Church and making profession of Religion without true faith and repentance are not justifiable in this before God or it may be conceived to be spoken of the Churches active admission of men into externall Church-communion and the sense is this it is not justifiable that men not having saving grace should by the Church be admitted to enter into the fellowship of the Visible Church If in any thing certainly in propounding Doctrines stating controversies forming conclusions ambiguities should be shun'd We grant the former sense but the latter we deny and it is not yet proven This much of the inductiâ—… Now come we to the fourth way of probation by reasons SECTION VI. Examination of Mr. Lockyers proofs brought under the name of reason section 1 HIs reasons are four which because they ly loose out of form and are somewhat prolixely pro pounded I shall labour to take up the strength of them as far as I can see ingenuously in form that we may both with the more shortnesse and clearnesse to the greater satisfaction of the Reader consider and answer them section 2 The first reason so far as I can possibly see may
by most impertinent Citations What is there in this place to the purpose of the constitution of the Visible Church as to its matter or Members the Apostle here ver 10 11 12 13 14 15. is speaking of Doctrines fundamentall and superstructed and that these ought to be suitable and agreeable to that what is this to the mater of the Visible Church Ay Yes by Analogie would he say first because the Apostle useth the same medium and argues as I do that if Christ be layed as a foundation c. Ans And must that hold Universallie because one using a medium in one mater reasons truelie and solidlie therefore another using that medium in another mater and reasoning that same way for forme must also reason truelie and solidelie What if this other erre in the application of the medium and if some of his premisses and principles whereof his argument consists be false upon the matter so it is here The Apostle reasoneth well and concludently upon that principle that the superstructure should be suitable to the foundation that Teachers should take heed what Doctrines they teach in the Church Because he assumeth well that Christ or the Doctrine of Christ is the foundation-point of Doctrine in Religion and all other Doctrines are the superstructures But Mr. Lockier assumeth amisse that the Visible Church as such is the superstructure built upon Christ as the Foundation The Scripture sayeth no where so a Visible Church-state or to be received unto or to be in the Visible Church state is not to be built on Christ as a Foundation but is to be taken in under or to be under the means of being built either first or in a further degree of advancement on Christ as a Foundation But further sayeth he see how he applyes this ver 16 17. incongruous superstructions if in point of Doctrine c. Ans This is somewhat spoken in the mist but for ought I can conjecture or conceive the meaning seemeth to be this that wrong Doctrines taught in the Church makes persons unholy and so unfit mater for the Church to consist of and so destroyes or defiles the Temple of God which is as he conceiveth the Visible Church And thus he will have the Apostle v. 16 17. to apply that which he had been speaking in the preceeding verses Now if this be not a forceing of the purpose and meaning of these two verses let any understanding man in the Christian World judge The plain genuine intention and purpose of the Apostle in these verses is to warne and dehort the Corinthians from defiling and laying waste the Church either by corrupt idle or curious Doctrine not suitable to the foundation Christ or by Schismaticall addicting themselves to this or that man who were teachers among them which was the purpose whereupon he began this discourse v. 4. or both and that upon these three grounds 1. The consideration of the dignity they were advanced to that they were the Temple of God consecrated by the indwelling Spirit to him 2. That such things did defile and lay them waste 3. That God would severly punish such as any wayes defiled and destroyed them that were a Temple consecrated to him Ay but 3. Saith he it is added for the Temple of God is holy which Temple ye are i. e. such arâ—â—he Temple of God which are holy which hath the Spirit of God dwelling in their hearts and none else Ans 1. Mr. Lockier then conceiveth that these words are brought in as a reason why he that teacheth wrong or incongruous Doctrines defiles or destroyes the Temple of God To this sense the Visible Church consists of such as are holy and hes the Spirit dwelling in them and none else therefore men by teaching incongruous Doctrine making men in the Church incongruous mater i. e. unholy destroyes the Temple i. e. the Visible Church A meer forgerie contrary to clear shining evidence of the Apostles context wherein any man that is not blind may see that these words for the Temple of God is holy are given as a reason why these that defile the Temple will be severly punished of God the reason of which consequence clearly intimate in the words is because God will not indure the defiling or violating of that which is holy and consecrate to himself 2. True indeed such are the Temple of God which are holy and none else So Mr. Lockier supposeth but without reason or proof Sure the Apostle borroweth this denoâ—…ation from the typicall Temple of Jerusalem but that was no type of a Visible Church but of Christs Mysticall body and every member thereof And hence I reason thus the denomination of the Temple of God is such as is competent to and predicable of these to whom it is attributed not only collectively i. e. to the whole society of them but also unto every one severally * Martyr in loc non solum fidelium caetus qui Ecclesia dicitur templum Dei dicitur sed unusquisque credentium in Christum reperitur ita cognominatus nam postea de fornicatione agens Apostâ—lus cap. 6. corpus cujusque credentis vocat templum spiritus Sancti But if it be taken for the Visible Church it could not be attributed to every member thereof Every one in it is not a Visible Church 3. If such only be the Temple of God in Mr. Lockiers sense i. e. a Visible Church which are holy and has the Spirit of God dwelling in their hearts and none else he may seek such a Visible Church in the new world of the Moon In the end of this paragraph he prompts us another Argument equivalent to this first from this that Christ is called the Head and the Church the Body In form it must stand thus If Christ be the Head there must be an homogenealnesse in the Church to him he meaneth they must be truely gracious and endued with true saving faith But Christ is the Head and the Visible Church his Body Therefore c. The reason of the connexion of the first Proposition is because else there can be no mutuall derivation from one to another Ans 1. Protestant Divines will with one consent deny your assumption as Popish and tell you that it is the Church of the Elect that is the Body of Christ the Head See but Whittaker de Eccles q 1. c. 13. pag. 449. in fol. Yet 2. For more clear and particular answer we are to consider that Christ may be said to be the Head and the Church his body either in a politicall sense as a King is called the Head of the Common-wealth and the People are called his Body Or to speak so in a physicall sense according to the similitude of mans body Now we grant that Christ is a Head to the Visible Church and the Visible Church hath unto him the relation of a body in the former sense Christ is a King of the Visible Church and the Visible Church is his politicall Body
Classes 1. Some Texts of Scripture as directly holding forth his Doctrine 2. Some others holding forth hints and shadows of it 3. An induction of instances of particular Churches mentioned in Scripture as so constitute 4. Some reasons We shall take them into consideration in so many Sections according to their order in the Author section 2 To his Texts of Scripture he is pleased to preface with this confident expression That ye may know how richly the Scripture consents to this To which we say no more but that it is most suteable to sound a triumph after the victory And so comes to his first Text Acts 9. 26. And when Saul was come to Jerusalem he assayes to joyn himself to the Disciples but they were all afraid of him and beleeved not that he was a Disciple On which place he for effecting his purpose from it commenteth thus First in a parenthesis he supposeth that the Disciples carriage here towards Paul proceeded from light and conscience and tendernesse in this mater viz. of admitting members into their Visible Church-communion and makes a note upon that particle all that they were a homogeneall body under the same light c. in the mater Then addeth What did they fear That he did not make profession of Christianity Why now he tendered himself to do it wHY should they have denyed him now if bare profession had been enough It is evident they feared that he did but meerly professe and that they should take in an heterogenerall peece one that had but the outside of that qualification which this new building should have and therefore Barnabas took him to the Apostles and declared to them how he had seen the Lord in the way and used all means to satisfie them of the reality of Gods work upon his heart And upon this he was received as fit mater for this new house and as suteable mater to that which was already in the building section 3 Answ 'T is a wonder to me and I professe I cannot wonder enough that any judicious and learned of the Independent Brethren should ever alledged this place for their Tenet in this Question yet not only our Author here but others also before him have brought it to that purpose But I have observed it a thing incident even to good men and in other things discerning that when they have once taken up an opinion in mater of Religion and it has gotten rooting in them they become so fond in love with their own conception that either readily they will even bend their wits to straine and force Scripture to speak for it or else their judgement being somewhat vitiate as to that particular with affection trowes any word almost speakes clear for it How others of them have improven this place I stay not to consider but to what Mr. Lockier hes on it 1. He supposeth that the matter between Paul and the Disciples at Jerusalem was about admission of him to be stated a member of that Visible Church Now where appeareth that in the Text You 'l say there he essayed to joyn himself to the Disciples good enough forsooth to please credulous and unstable minds The simple meaning of the words is no other thing but that he assayed to be familiarly with them So the word * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used afterward c. 10. v. 28. Ye know that it is unlawfull for a man that is a Jew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. to keep company or familiarly converse with or come unto one of another nation 'T is of the same sense with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Joh. 4. 9. But besides this I think upon this supposition made by Mr. Lockier and other Principles of his was concerning the Visible Church he may be put to a puzling question For when as it is held by our Brethren that thâ—… is no Visible Church existing but a particular Congregation I would ask whether Paul had been a Visible Church-member before this time any other where And if so whether he did now cease to be a Visible member of that former Church and so of all Churches by suiting to be a member of the Church at Jerusalem untill he was received in there Then when he removed again from Jerusalem whether he laid down his membership in that Church Or if he continued standing in it when he was travelling through the world Then if he laid it down whether he behoved to be stated a member in another Visible Church and then in another according as he removed from one place to another 2. Whereas the Author sayes that the Disciples at Jerusalem their carriage toward Paul was from light and conscience and tendernesse in the mater of the constitution of the Visible Church and that they did fear they should take in a heterogeneal peece is evidently a bold fiction beside the Text And he must give me leave to doubt if he spoke that in good sad-earnest can any man conceive any other thing to be meant by these words they all feared him but this that when as he had before been a violent persecutor of Christians they apprehended he was still such an one and might be now only seeking to insinuate himself amongst them as a Wolfe to destroy them That they feared him the same way that Ananias did v. 13 14 of this same Chap. Will any man I say that reads the Story when he comes to this Passage conceive otherwayes of the meaning thereof Nay I appeal to the Authors own conscience if upon serious looking again upon the words and the series of the Story himself can conceive otherwise of it Now such a fear as this and that light conscience and tendernesse in the mater of Church constitution are very different things As for his Argumentative questioning What did they fear That he did not make a Profession of Christianity Why now he tendered himself to do it but it is evident that they feared he did but meerly professe c. I Ans 'T is very poor and unbeseeming a man of understanding pretending to speak seriously I say that was not it they feared that he did not make Profession of Christianity nor yet that that he did but meerly professe taking meer Profession only in opposition to Profession from a Principle of saving grace but the thing they feared was his cruelty which they had seen before not knowing but he was still on that same way and they feared his professing himself a Disciple and essaying to converse familiarly with them was but fraudulent counterfeiting to get advantage to execute his cruelty And Barnabas his bringing him to the Apostles and his discourse touching the Lords dealing with him wherein I confesse there is so much as might sway their judgements to account him not only one seriously and sine dolo malo Professing Christianity but also a truely gracious convert yea and an Apostle of Jesus Christ too was to take this fear out of their hearts that they might
in this vision was not to give a patern and portraicture or modell of the Visible Church for the time to come 2. As to that alledged meaning of Moses receiving his patern near Heaven viz. to shew of what qualification the people i. e. the members of the ancient Visible Church should be viz. in foro exteriori so must he understand it if he speak to the purpose in hand I will not trouble my self to inquire who may be these very learned men that say so But the thing it self is but a conjecture and I desire Mr. Lockier concerning this and the expounding of Heaven here to remember the axiome acknowledged by Schoole-men themselves otherwise doting on allegories theologia symbolica non est Argumentativa except where the Spirit of God himself openeth the signification 3. I desire to know what Mr. Lockier meaneth by persons really living very near Heaven if truely gracious then what difference between those and these afterward brought in with an adversative opposing them to the former and why did he propound his Doctrine with a restriction to the time of the Gospel 4. That patern which Moses had shown to him in the Mount according to which he was commanded to make did not concern the constitution of the body of the then Visible Church of what and how qualified persons it was to be made up But was a patern of the Tabernacle and the things pertaining to it Exod. 25. 9. 40. S. The place Ezek. 44. 7. referred as speaking of the ordinary members of the then Visible Church is not to the purpose for it speaks of such as were admitted to the Priests Office See Junius and Paraeus in locum 5. As impertinently and much more impertinently is the place of Heb. 8. 10. cited from Ier. 31. 33. brought into this discourse concerning the Visible Church and the mater thereof I appeal to all judicious Christians in the World and to Mr. Lockier himself in second serious thoughts if that Scripture was intended to be a rule of constituting Congregations Or if it be not a declaration or revelation of Gods purpose and Decree what he is to do himself by his efficacious grace and if that Covenant and the promises thereof belongeth not in the fulfilling thereof only to the Lords elect SECTION V. Examination of Mr. Lockyers proofe of his Doctrine by induction section 1 BVt saith he this is not the way which I most mind to make probation by of this point I would prove it by induction it seemeth then that he hes not had such confidence in that former way of probation by testimonies alledged to speak the point in thesi And I humbly leave it to the judicious and impartiall Reader to judge by what hath been said in answer to these passages if it be not made clearer that he had little ground of confidence in them for proof of his point and comes now to that way of probation wherein it seemeth he conceiveth more strength to ly section 2 The Churches of the Romanes Corinthians Ephesians Galatians Collossians Thessalonians of the Jews which are mentioned by Peter Iames and the Author to the Hebrews and in the Acts were all thus constitute of truely Godly so far as a Godly man can make judgement of one like himself Ergo. if these be denyed as presidents then I would aske our Brethren of the Presbytery by what rule they walk But if these be considered as presidents I have only to shew that these Churches did all thus constitute though I think they did not long keep and maintain this pure constitution for which they bore their judgement yet bear Ans Where did Mr. Lockier read that the judgement comed and yet lying upon these Churches came upon them for their admitting and permitting to be in their visible society such as were not true converts such as God the searcher of the hearts of all men can bear witnesse of as indeed sealed for his by his Holy Spirit as far as men truely converted and very spirituall can discern and judge We find indeed laid to some of their charge that they suffered scandalous persons broatchers of errors and seducers of others into their errors such I mean maintainers of errors I trow he and others of his way are not averse from receiving and suffering into their Independent Churches and I doubt not but for this among other causes judgement came upon them But that ever that which he saith was laid to tâ—eir charge or that the judgement of God came upon them for that cause we cannot believe his assertion we require it to be instanced by proofe but to the purpose he supposeth that beside these particular Churches instanced and what is said of them in the Epistles written to them there can be no where in Scripture found any thing holden forth as a rule by which we may walk in the constitution of the visible Church as to the mater or members tâ—ereof So doth his Question then I would aske our Brethren by what rule they walk import But we trust ere we have done to find a rule else-where yet we shall not deny nor refuse these Churches as presidents in this businesse in whatsoever can be made clear to have been their practice in this mater I mean the notion and consideration under which persons were admitted unto and reckoned in their externall Church-fellowship Come we then to consider the antecedent of this Argument or what is affirmed in his induction of these Churches First in the generall and then his proof thereof particularly The assertion of them all in generall is that all of them were constitute of persons truely Godly so far as Godly men could make judgement Ans 1. Mr. Lockier if he would have made the attributum of this induction answerable to his conclusion intended he should have said they were constitute of persons all and every one of them truely Godly and none else But he speaks only indefinitely which might be granted But let us take him to mean so this assertion as it lyeth may be granted in some sense which it may carry and never a whit advantage redound thereby to his Doctrine for it may carry this sense that these Churches were made up or did consist of persons all of them truely matâ—…ially Godly de facto and quoad eventum or it may carry this sense that they were constitute of persons all truly godly formally considered as such in their taking them into the constitution and external society of them Now in the first sense it might be granted as I suppose some Congregation or Congregations may be such eventually that all the members may be truely godly yet no advantage come thereby to his Tenet unlesse he could prove that the enumeration which he makes is a perfect enumeration of all the particular Churches in Scripture which he cannot because it is clearly contrary to truth and therefore his induction is imperfect Yea and this also that there is no other
it cannot be predicated of every one of the persons severally each person is not a Temple in this sense a Visible Church Ergo c. Obj. But the Apostle is speaking here to the Visible Church of Corinth Ans True but every thing he speaketh of them is not for that competent to them as a Visible Church section 7 I cannot but wonder much at that wherewith Mr. Lockier closeth this reason and so how can God have glory in the Church throughout all ages Eph. 3. 21. Ans And doth continuation of the Glory of God in the Church throughout all ages depend upon his particular way of constituting particular Visible Congregations of all true Saints and a particular Congregations firmnesse and constancy in holding out the truth Hes God then not been glorified in the Church throughout the many preceeding generations wherein there was never heard of Churches so constitute untill of yesterday Separatists and Independents erected theirs And yet waile them as well as they will they shall never get one such as Mr. Lockier would be at in this Argument And how many particular Churches have fallen away and for their part letten truth fall section 8 The 3d. Argument grounded on Malachi 1. 11. must be thus If the mater of a Visible Church be not persons truly Godly then there cannot be offered up in Gods house a pure offering and the Churches of the Gentiles cannot fulfill that Prophesie Mal. 1. 11. For why Vnto the impure and unbeleeving all things are so every mans offering is as he is let his offering be what it will let a man make up his offering of never so much cost and worth yet it is still in the account of God as the man is if the man be impure so is his offering But it is contrary to that Prophesie to say the latter Ergo. c. Ans Mr. Lockier himself will not be able to avoyd the stroak of this Argument no not by his own way as some times he expresseth it for thereby all such as may be accounted truely godly so far as men can judge are to be acknowledged and admitted as mater of a Visible Church now many of these may be and undoubtedly are really impure and unbeleeving and so of necessity must their offering be impure If it be said yet it is not the fault of the admitters that they do so Ans That 's nothing to the purpose for whether they be faulty or not still it standeth good that by that way it cannot be avoyded but impure and unbeleeving will be in the Visible Church such as cannot offer a pure offering 2. It reproacheth the dispensation and wisdome of the blessed Lord God himself because he hes not left in his Word a rule and way whereby the Church Visible may be constitute so as that Prophesie and his decree revealed therein concerning his service among the Gentiles may be fulfilled for he hes given no rule whereby the Church Visible may be gotten so constitute as that all the mater thereof shall be persons truely Godly But there may be and cannot but be in it many impure and unbeleeving who cannot offer a pure offering But 3. To answer directly we deny the connexion or consequence of the first proposition 't is grounded upon a false supposition that there can be no pure offering in the Church unlesse all the mater that is members of the Visible Church be truly godly What may there not be a pure offering to God in the Church and so that Prophesie be fulfilled of the Churches of the Gentiles if some in the Churches Visible be truely Godly though all be not such Therefore he takes paines without necessity to prove that impure and unbeleevers cannot offer a pure offering that we grant I mean not this materially and objectively for so an impure man may offer a pure offering he should have proven to make his consequence good that if all the mater be not such as cannot offer a pure offering there can be no pure offering in the Church at all If Mr. Lockier say here that not only the offering of the unbeleeving and impure themselves but also the offering of all that are in the Visible Church-Communion with them is impure This is plain and down right Separatism and is disclaimed of all the pious and learned amongst the Independents at least in dogmate and is most contrary to the Word of God section 9 For further confirmation of this Argument he bringeth 1 Pet. 2. 5. but to no purpose for the point in hand and what he comments on it is to no purpose We grant it all 1. That Christ is a suitable foundation to the superstructure there mentioned 2. The Stones must be living to make a Spirituall House 3. That else they cannot be a Holy Priest-hood to offer up Spirituall Sacrifices holy and acceptable to God through Christ That the offering and Offerer are one That the offering may be Spirituall Holy and acceptable the Person offering must be such That persons that have but only a profession of Religion are dead stones But what is all this to the point can there be no Spirituall offering in the Visible Church if all be not such as can offer a Spirituall offering that 's the thing should been alledged to strengthen the former Argument but it is evidently false If it be said that the place may be alledged by it self as holding forth an instance of the generall Doctrine that that Church the Apostle is speaking to was constitute of all such I answer the Apostle is not speaking to any particular Visible Church but to all the effectually called Elect Jews scattered throughout Pontus Galatia c. cap. 1. 1 2 3. If it be said but he intended his Epistle to the severall particular Churches Visible in these several parts I Ans True but it followeth not therefore that every thing he sayeth to them is spoken of them as a Visible Church and so spoken of all and every one of them in that state What is spoken by way of declaration and imposition of duty may be is spoken to all and every one But what is spoken of by way of assertion as a priviledge or blessing existing it is not spoken Universally of all and every on in their visible societie But indefinitely which may be verified though it be competent but to some among them Yea though it were spoken Universally of them all Yet it would only prove what they were de facto and quoad eventum and not what their Visible Church ought to have been by necessity of a command that it might be a right constitute Visible Church section 10 The fourth reason must be formed either of these ways 1. Thus if the Jâ—ws be to be provoked by the glory and purity of his Worship and Worshippers then a Visible Church i. e. every Visible Church ought to be constitute of
terrour of this Text for that section 16 The place Rev. 3. 10. spoken to the Church of Philadelphia is but abused For 1. What warrand is there to expone that hour of temptation spoken of there of the time immediatly before the Calling of the Jews And the Church of Philadelphia in a typicall sense of some Churches to be then 'T is too much boldnesse to force such typicall Interpretations upon Scripture where the Spirit of God in the Word goeth not before us to warrand us 'T is true Reverend Brightman hâ—s Interpreted all the Churches and the things written to them as types of other Churches in these latter dayes But 1. All solide Divines have shown their discontentment with his conceit as groundlesse 2. Yet doth not he understand by Philadelphia such Churches immediatly before the incalling of the Jews as Mr. Lockier fancies But hes expresly named some present Churches which he will have to 〈◊〉 signified thereby Geneva France Low-Countreys and with the rest even that Church of Scotland which Mr. Lockier counts an evill vessell that will be broken in pieces and that because of the order and Government set up in them 3. The place speaks not here of cutting off Churches but of trying the Inhabitants of the World 4. If these Churches typified by Philadelphia are not to be cut off because of their constitution like its how comes that it self which was the Patern and to whom this word was spoken in the first instance and place hath been cut off section 17 The place of Daniel is as grossely abused What ground or appearance can Mr. Lockier give us that the Holy Ghost means one and the same time Daniel 12. and Rev. 3. in the Epistle of Philadelphia He sayeth by these words Daniel 12. 1. It doth plainly appear that this hour of temptation viz. Rev. 3. 10. will be immediatly before the Calling of the Jews and he doth no more but say it Learned men and that upon considerable grounds and reasons have conceived that time Daniel 12. 1. not to be a time after Christs first comming but before it the time of Antiochus persecution And must Mr. Lockiers naked assertion without reason that it is a time immediatly before the Jews incalling be sufficient to obtain beliefe section 18 The New Jerusalem spoken of Rev. 21. is groundlessely expounded to be the Visible Church of the Jews as contradistinguished from the Church of the Gentiles And I verily think that it cannot be understood of the Church upon earth at all ver 22. seemeth to me to speak this much clearly The place Isa 11. 7. is also grossely missapplyed to the Visible Church of Gentiles to be joyned with the Visible Church of the Jews after their incalling it being clearly a Prophesie concerning the Universall Church of the Gospel reaching along from the time of Christs first comming unto the end as all Interpreters expound it and the context it self holdeth it forth evidently And so is the place of Zechariah pointed at to be understood The hint at Jer. 12. 9. where that ancient people are likned to a speckled bird as if thereby were meant that because that Church in its visible constitution was mixed of â—ypocrites with the Godly therefore it is called a speckled bird and that upon that account they were casten off might make a man laugh were we not on a serious matter and it s rather a mater of mourning to see Scripture and so much of it so wrested The simple meaning of the words being this that as a wilde strange bird of an uncouth colour coming in among other birds all flieth about it and pursueth it So because the people were become uncouth estranged from God wilde untame the Lord would raise up the Nations round about to destroy them But what meaneth Mr. Lockier to speak here of the casting off the ancient Visible Church of the Jews under the Old Testament for not constituting their outward Visible society of all truely Saints but suffering it to be speckled Seeing all along this discourse he hes restricted his Doctrine concerning the mater of the Visible Church to the dayes of the Gospel As for his inference wherewith he closeth consequently the allowed mater of a Visible Church Remember we are speaking of Mater allowed in relation to the outward Ecclesiastick Court its proceeding in admitting persons to externall Church fellowship now in the dayes of the Gospel are persons truely holy we say it followeth not upon any thing you have been alledging in this paragraph For were all granted you have been writing out of these places all comes to this that God sometime after this will bring the Church Visible to such an estate that all in it shall be truely holy de facto But dispensations of efficacious grace are not a rule of Ecclesiastick proceeding in admitting persons to the outward communion of the Visible Church SECTION VII A short modest reply to Mr. Lockyers bitter use made of his Doctrine section 1 I had heard oftentimes before this time Mr. Lockier commended for a man of an ingenuous humble meek sweet spirit and when I read the Epistle of his three Brethren prefixed to this Peece wherein they called him a soft sweet whisperer I expected to have found him such here But sure I am any impartiall man who readeth his Use and application of his Doctrine may see great want of ingenuity and such bitternesse vented against men desirous to keep the truth and to walk before God in simplicity and godly sincerity as becometh not any man of a Christian spirit and the like whereof could hardly been expected to come from the very sons of Babel themselves against any Protestants section 2 He begins with this Take heed then of setting against a Church of such a complexion and constitution Wilt thou oppose a thing because it is as it ought to be To whom do you speak Mr. Lockier To us who oppose your Doctrine concerning the necessary qualification of Church members in relation to externall Church fellowâ—hip Do we by opposing this oppose a thing because it is such as it ought to be Nay we do but oppose you who sayes the Church Visible as such ought to be even in the Ecclesiastick Court that which God never said in his Word that it ought to be and makes the door of the Visible Church straiter then ever the Lord made it and so in effect disclaimes the way allowed by God himself for ordering his Church as not wise enough nor accurate enough Or do we set our selves against a Church of such complexion and constitution as you descrive consisting of all truly godly so far as men can judge God forbid and far be it from us were there such a Church in the world of such complexion and constitution it should be very dear and precious in our estimation and we should blesse the Lord for the riches and power of his grace bestowed upon them We wish from our souls that our Churches
we wish you may do we cite you before his Tribunall to answer for it But 2. Sir we are content also to stand at the Barre of any impartiall judicious Divines in the Christian World and that they give their judgement by that same much which I who pretends not to be one of the Learned Men in this Land have Answered to your preceeding Discourse if your Doctrine be such as we are not able to disprove and if we do not upon some good grounds of reason and not out of a meer spirit of contradiction oppose the same And thus I shall leave your invective without saying any more to it we have not learned Christ so as to repay evill with evill bitternesse with bitternesse you have cursed us we blesse you we wish you heartily a blessing Repentance and forgivennesse of this evill thought of your heart and the uncharitable issue of it SECTION VIII Mr. Lockyers Objections he maketh to himself and his Answers thereto considered section 1 MR. Lockier having discharged that bitter foregoing invective against the opposers of his way comes to propound and answer some Objections against himself choised out and formed at his own pleasure Five in number whereof two only are in causâ Were there no other Arguments worthy of his consideration besides these to be found in Orthodox Writers opposite to his way If he thinks not it will seem he hes not read such Writers on this purpose as he might and ought for clearing of himself and others If he knew others why did he not assay to clear them also I think he had not will to present before his hearers all Arguments brought against his Doctrine least he should not ridde his feet well of them and something thereof might have stuck to such as was judicious Whatsoever hes moved him so to passe them over we hope it shall shortly appear he had some cause rather to passe them in silence then to hazard grappling with them it was his prudence so to do But let 's see these he hath and his answers to them section 2 Obj. 1. Why But they gather Churches out of Churches whom you plead for Why I thought the Dispute hitherto ye have been on was not about persons and their practises but about a dogmatick point Had we been propounding Objections to you we should not troubled our selves with these extrinsecall ones taken from prejudices against persons abaters of your Doctrine But should more directly pointed at the throat of the cause it self Yet we think all Godly Orthodox men in the Christian World besides your selves will judge that the Godly Ministers of Christ in this Iland have just cause to lay this practice of picking out of Orthodox Churches in which Jesus Christ is soundly Taught Sacraments administred according to their institution and are by the most judicious of your own way confessed to be true Churches from which it is not lawfull to make separation such Professours as by Gods blessing upon his Ordinances in these Churches have gotten most good to make up of them Churches to your selves All Orthodox Christians will judge this justly laid to your charge as a Schismatick practice having no warrand or president in the Word of God tending to the begetting of heart-burnings divisions hatred amongst Christians yea these of nearest relations Husband and Wife Parents and Children Magistrats and People to the hindring and no wayes to the promoving of the Work of Reformation But see what is said to this section 3 Nay it is but Churches out of a Church Gospel Churches out of a legall Nationall Church and the one being abolished there may be yea there ought to be a departing from it and a gathering out of it unto the order which God hath instituted so we finde Churches gathered out of that Church of the Jews Gal. 1. 22. And whether he meaneth by being in Christ meerly according to profession see 1 Thes 2. 14. Ans 1. The citation of the 1 Thes 2. 14. for clearing what is meant by being in Christ mentioned Gal. 1. 22. is a digression from the purpose of the Objection and hath been sufficiently answered before 2. You gather Churches say you out of a Church not out of Churches This is strange are not the Church of Edinburgh and the Church of Aberdene Churches Again if it be a fault to gather Churches out of Churches shall it be no fault to gather Churches out of a Church majus minus non variant speciem Ay 't is a legall Nationall Church he meaneth such as the Jewish such a Church is abolished therefore 't is no fault yea we ought to gather c. For Answer We may consider a Nationall or Provinciall Church of a threefold sort and notion 1. Wherein all of the Nation are bound to a publick and solemn typicall service and Worship to be performed in one place chosen by God under the inspection of one Visible Pastor or Priest who in Worship and Sacrifices doth hold forth and represent the whole People of the Nation 2. Such a Nationall and Provinciall Church in which many particular Churches are united and subjected unto one Church as they call it Mother or Cathedrall Church and depend upon a Visible Pastor who is Pastor and Ruler of all other Pastors and particular Churches in the Nation or Province And wherein the Inferiour Churches enjoy Divine Ordinances and Ecclesiasticall power and jurisdiction of that Mother and Cathedrall Church or that Provinciall or Nationall Pastor 3. Such a Nationall Church wherein many particular Churches are joyned and united together under one Visible Church-Government wherein all are equally and collaterally concerned and have equall interest for the use and exercise of all these Ordinances which are necessary to the Visible Ministeriall Government of these Churches and mutuall Ecclesiasticall fellowship in it and edification and preservation by it Now a Nationall Church in the second notion is not nor ever was an Ordinance of God but a meer invention of men and Antichristian tyrannie overthrowing the power granted by GOD to the Churches and Pastors A nationall Church of the first notion and sense was indeed an Ordinance of God Such were the Jews but instituted and to continue for a definite time viz. untill the fulnesse of time should come and then it was abolished and evanished And a Church Nationall in this sense was legall But a Nationall Church in the third sense is not a legall or typicall Church and Ordinance But moralis perpetui juris Such was the Jewish under the Old Testament in point of Government and Ecclesiastick Discipline They were many particular Churches and Synagogues â—hich did in diverse places celebrat the Morall Worship of God and the exercises of Doctrine Discipline and Church-Government Acts 15. 21. Acts 13. 15 16. Luke 21. 12. John 12. 42. All which were joyned and united under one Nationall Visible Ecclesiastick Government This Visible Church-ship so to speak of the Church of the Jews as
it was not legall I mean ceremonially nor typicall so neither was it ever abolished Let Mr. Lookier shew me a Text in the whole New Testament importing an abrogation of it Nay we trust through the Lords grace ere we come to an end to give evidence from the Word of God that there is a Church Visible under the New Testament of a larger extent and bounds I mean in point of Government then a Province or Nation even a Visible Church Universall Therefore I conclude that we maintaining a Nationall Church in no other sense then this which is still warranted and allowed in the New Testament it is nothing else but grosse Separatisme to gather Churches out of Churches upon this account because they are united into one Nationall Church in this sense As to that alledged by Mr. Lockier of gathering Churches out of that one Church of the Jews which he would confirm by Gal. 1. 22. I Ans The alledgeance is grossely impertinent for why We are now upon the practice of gathering and constituting Churches in a new Visible Church-state of persons withdrawn from Churches wherein is the sound Doctrine of the faith of Christ and pure Sacraments according to their institution such as the most judicious and Godly amongst the Independent Brethren themselves confesse to be true Churches upon this account because they are united into one Nationall Church in point of Government But now will Mr. Lockier say that the Christian Churches of the Jews were gathered out of the Jews upon this account because they were a Nationall Church in this sense He cannot upon any warrand in the world The ground of their gathering out from the rest of the Jews was because the rest would not beleeve Jesus to be the Messiah nor imbrace him as their Saviour But would still adhere to their ceremoniall Worship Sacrifices and Priesthood and would be saved by their own righteousnesse blaspheming Christ and his Doctrine section 4 The second objection he propoundetâ— to himself is this Those men are full of Heresies and dangerous opinions that follow this way many monsters came out of your Independent Churches therefore surely 't is not of God c. I must say again Mr. Lockier doth prudently to make choise of such arguments against himself to answer as are little to the purpose in hand I think no understanding adversary would have moved this as an objection against his Doctrine handled in this Lecture concerning the matter of the Visible Church But I think indeed being well managed it may be made use of to good purpose against their Independent Churches in point of their Government thus The Government that is apt to open a door to Errors seemeth cannot be of God But such is the Independent way of Church Government Which makes every particular Congregation Independent and supreme in Government so that if any of them fall into Error there is no Ecclesiastick Power on earth that authoritatively can interpose to redresse wherein they go wrong And certaine it is by this occasion many Errours have sprung up amongst them that follow this way And for this very cause it is that so many maintainers of grosse Errours as Anabaptists Antinomians c. lay hold on this way of Government as most suitable to their designes and serviceable for their safetie and indemnitie And here I shall desire Mr. Lockier to remember how that Reverend Mr. Brightman parallelling the Churches of Geneva France Low-countries and Scotland put the speciall point of their commendation on the nature and way of their Government viz. Presbyteriall whereby they have more then any Reformed Churches preserved themselves in Unity and Truth free of Schismes and Heresies But we will have place afterward to speak of this point of Government It seemeth to me very likely that M â— Lockier hath drawn in this objection in this place namely upon a design against a Person as we shall see apparent ground even now in his answer section 5 Answ 1. All is not true that is said of Congregationall Churches and their friends it hath been an old wyle of the Devil Nay I know all is not true which is Printed of Persons honouring and loving Churches of such a constitution witnesse Master Edwards Gangren nay Master Rutherfurds Spirituall Antichrist pag. 250 251. The Lord Generall Cromwell is charged with publick scandall and unsoundnesse in the Faith because of a letter to the Parliament then having set down a part of that letter out of Mr. Rutherfurd what Heresie sayeth he is in this letter I know not and then applyes to Master Rutherfurd his constructing of that letter Psal 56. 5. and that of Solomon Pro. surely the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood Then cites another speach of Master Rutherfurds Spirit Antich pag. 251. viz. to my knowledge there 's not this day in England any that is a meer Independent which maintaineth nothing but Independencie with most of those of New England and doeth not hold other unsound and corrupt Tenets c. and sayeth this maketh him tremble when he remembreth from whom it cometh Surely there be many Independents in England to whom he is a stranger And how then should he dare to speak of them all as he doeth Especially this makes him tremble comparing with what Master Rutherfurd hath in his Epistle if I lift up my hand or a bloody pen c. Answ 1. 'T is a poor and sory Vindication all is not true that is said yea or Printed of Congregational Churches and of their friends That is not the thing you are charged with in the Objection even as formed by your self that all is true c. if a great part or most part of these things â—e true the charge abideth good And true it is that more Monsters of dangerous opinions in matters of Religion have come from Independent Churches and the friends thereof and have had their recourse to that way of Government within those few years by past then I believe has arisen in all the Reformed Churches in Christendome since the beginning of Reformation As for your bringing M â— Rutherfurd upon the stage upon the account of that Letter you will do well Mr. Lockier to enter into your own heart and consider from what designe and intention this hath proceeded 'T is very apparent it has come from little purpose or intention to clear that Letter in the things charged upon it Seeing you have not so much as hinted at the clearing of one animadversion on it But thought it enough to say you know not what is amisse in it and to bid the world judge of it Give me leave to say it of Mr. Lockier If Generall Cromwels Souldiers defended him not better with the Sword then you do here with your pen it were not very safe for him to go to the fields Well I will not determine upon your intentions But if the intention of the work of this businesse looketh not towards stirring up of persecution against the Godly
appears to be some grounds in the Text to think the contrary viz. these 1. That Peter with his severe objurgation and denunciation joynes a serious exhortation to Repentance and Prayer with an insinuation of some hope of mercie v. 2â— 2. That the Historian has registrate that Simon did not shew himself obstinate but accepting of the words of Peter and touched with the terrour of the threatned Judgement sought the help of the Apostles Prayers to escape it 3. But supposing that Peter did at this time Excommunicate him yet that it was done upon this account simply that he was not in Christ that he had no share in reall grace has no footing in the Text we will find a further mater â—…d to his charge an atrocious crime of seeking to buy the gift of the Holy Ghost with money Nay that for non regeneration simply a man should be Excommunicat is a wild assertion unheard of in the Word of God which enjoyneth this censure only in the case of obstinacy and contumacious contempt of the Discipline of the Church or at farthest in case of an atrocious scandall which case yet is doubtfull as may appear in the debates of Learned Men about the Excommunication of the incestuous Corinthian 4. The place 2 Tim. 3. 5. is most contrary to the scope and purpose of the context alledged as a rule holding forth that all professours not having true grace of Regeneration or not giving evidences thereof so far as men can discern and judge are for that to be casten out of the communion of the Visible Church It is clear as nooâ—-day that the Apostle by the men of whom he saith they have a form of godlinesse means not every professour unregenerate or not giving evidences convincing so far as men can judge of Regeneration but persons openly and grossely in their conversation scandalous flagitious blasphemous c. As is evident both by the words going before and following section 14 Thâ—â—ast Object he laboureth to answer the Apostle 2 Tim. 2. 20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of Gold and of Silver but also of Wood and of Earth and some to honour and some to dishonour by house he meaneth Visible Church therefore the Visible Church may consist of good â—…d bad Mr. Lockier propounds Arguments against his Tenent as himself pleaseth in the most â—oft way for his own advantage We hope in the next Section to give an Argumeâ—… from this and other like descriptions of the Visible Church formed somewhat more pungent now we shall only consider what he answâ—…eth unto it as laid down by himself His Answers are two section 15 First That there may be bad men in a Church hath not been denyed because Hypocrites may delude the judgement of the best men but he the Apostle saith not that these vessels of earth are there allowedly but they are there to dishonour That is being creept in where they should not be they are to be cast out of the Church as dishonourable as indeed was Hymeneus and Philetus of whom and of one Alexander see what the Apostle sayeth 1 Tim. 1. 20. which shews that when men put away that which they seem to have faith coupled with a good conscience they are to be put away to their master as vessels of dishonour appointed for wrath Answ 1. Passing now that expression that bad men are not in the Church allowedlie having pondered before in what sense it may be granted and in what not passing this what a wilde and forced Interpretation is that vessels to dishonour i. e. that are to be cast out of the Church by Ecclesiastick censure Excommunication Who ever dreamed of the like before Clear it is that the Apostle in the back or outside of the comparison by being to honour means appointed and imployed to more honest and honourable uses in an house And by to dishonour meaneth not casting out of the house to Interprete him so were ridiculous but to be appointed and imployed to more base and fordid uses And in the kirnell or application of the similiâ—ude under the name of vessels to honour is meaned the elect of God sanctified and prepared to every good work and ordained â—o glory as is clear by the verse going before and the verse following And so by vessels to dishonour are meant cast-awayes whom being in the Visible Church God makes use of for such ends as he pleaseth and in end will separate them to that wrath and confusion they are fitted for whether ever here-away they break out into such scandals as shall make them to be casten out of the Visible Church or they continue in the heap or in the house to their ending day That this is the genuine meaning of the words I think no intelligent man will deny 2. It is a false supposition which Mr. Lockier insinuateth that bad men in the Church i. e. men void of true grace and unregenerat as and becausâ— such are to be cast out of the commuâ—…on of the Visible Church the Scripture allowâ—…h no casting out of men but because they are scâ—…dalous and contumâ—…ous or at least atrociously scandalous which latter yet as we said before is questionable and it alloweth men that are such to be casten out though they be haply in state truely regenerat and justified And therefore 3. It is a most inconsiderat word of the Authors where expressing the nature of Excommunication he â—ayeth they are to be put away to their master as vessels of dishonour and appointed unto wrath i. e. in plain words as reprobates ordained to eternall damnation This is very different from Pauls theologie 1 Cor. 5. 5. to deliver unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Far be it from me and from the Churches of Christ to use Excommunication upon such a consideration of a person and for such an end as Mr. Lockier determines here which in effect makes the Church in the sentence of Excommunication to determine concerning mens reprobation a secret which God hath keped up to himself and is altogether hid unto and undiscernable by men except in the case of sinning against the Holy Ghost which yet is hard for any to determine upon 4. The Excommunication and casting out of Hymeneus Philetus and Alexander is impertinently alledged to the purpose viz. that all men that are not true Saints or have not true grace so must Mr. Lockier's bad men be understood are upon this account to be cast out of the Church these were not such men simply but taught abominable heresies denyall of the Resurrection perverse seducers of people from the faith blasphemers and for these they were cast out 2 Tim. 2. 18 2 Tim. 1. ult section 16 His next Answer is this Moreover by this great house he Paul First means the Church of the Ephesians for whose sake Paul wrot to Timothy and what they were according to the judgement of
guides and leads the proceedings of the Judicatory 5. The Church if the Elders go wrong may not only admonish them But 6. if impenitent reject i. e. Excommunicate them Ans 1. If the Church ordain their Elders may depose them may Excommunicate them To speak of Elders exerting power but not without consent and approbation of the Church is give me leave to say it without offence upon the mater a Gilli-maufrey The Church can and does exert Power it self by it self without Elders exerting any Power in these weighty maters of Government And what need then to talk of a necessity of their consent and approbation to the Elders exerting the Power nay by these suppositions the Elders as such shall have no Power no judiciall or authoritative Power at all to exert As such they are at most only as Chair-men and Moderators to the Church in its exerting Power But. 2. all these Assertions making up the Antecedent or proof except the first concerning the electing of Officers which is no act of Government nor makes a man a Minister but only is a designation of the person to be made a Minister by ordination or an application of him being a Minister to exercise his office in a particular charge and the 5th concerning admonition which is not an act of jurisdiction or authority but a duty of love and mercy competent to every single Professour except these two all the rest are but bare unwarranted Assertions and a very begging of the things in question More of them severally hereafter Only in a word now here concerning the last that the Church may Excommunicate their Elders however many of the Independents affirme so Yet some of them and these not of least account have scunnered at it yea denyed it down-right and given reason for their so denying As Mr. Cotton Excommunication is one of the highest acts of rule and therefore cannot be performed but by some rulers The Keyes pag. 16. The Church cannot Excommunicate the whole Presbyterie because they have not received from Christ an office of rule without their Officers ib. no act of the peoples power doth properly bind unlesse the authoritâ— of the Presbytery joine with it 3. But one word more for the present when the Author sayes that the Elders are set over the Church and yet makes them but servants of the Church in the sense we have before expressed subject to judiciall tryall and censures by the Church c. he gives us but an empty word nomen sine re which is another scorn it is impossible by his way to shew us one act of authority in regard of which they can be said to be over the Church See this I say made good impregnably by Reverend Mr. Rutherfurd due right of Presbyteries pag. * This is to be looked after the retrogradation of the number of pages mentioned by the Printer in admonition about Errata 311. to 323. section 10 As to the Latine testimonie cited by the Author to confirm what he has been saying concerning the Church of believers power to censure their Elders and Officers I professe I know not what Author he means nor have leisure to enquire But to the two Texts of Scripture pointed at in it 1. The former Act 11. 3. 't is true Peter there giveth an account of his going in to the uncircumcised But 1. was he required by a Church of Believers only and contradistinguished from all Elders and Officers in which notion it is that Mr. Lockier is now speaking of the Church to do this before them judicially this is a dream The Church at Jerusalem before whom Peter was at that time consisted of Elders as well as Believers And the Apostles and Brethren that were in Judea heard c. and it is well observed by the Nedder Dutch Notes that under the name of Brethren are comprehended the Elders who afterwards c. 15. 23. are distinguished from private brethren 't is said v. 2. that some of the Brethren contended with him for that deed now supposing that they challenged him judicially and that he made his Apology judicially how shall it be evidenced from the Text that he did it before the body of Professours and not before the Colledge of Apostles and other Elders only sitting and cognoscing judicially upon the mater the sharpest sight in the World will not see a vestige of any thing of this kind in the Text nor can any man shew us either precept or example in Scripture for a Church of Believers alone judicially cognoscing and giving sentence of censure upon their Elders and Rulers 2. Suppose there had been none but private Believers amongst them to whom Peter made that Apologie to remove the scandall Yet that were but a poor ground to prove that he did it to them judicially sitting upon him and as having authority to judge and censure him for why One Christian doing any thing at which offence is taken may and ought to give an account and satisfaction to another privat brother who is offended for removing the offence Yet hath not a privat Brother authority or power judicially to cognosce and passe sentence upon another Brother section 11 2. To the other place 1 Cor. 3. 22. brought for that Peter and so other Church-Officers are the servants and Ministers of the Church 1. 'T is true the Pastours there are said to be the Churches and so also are the world life death things present things to come and all things But I hope none will be so absurd as to say that the World Life Death c. are the Churches as servants in way of relation to the Church as a Mistresse calling commissionating them under Her they are the Churches as means to Her good and so are the Pastors and Rulers Her servants in this sense 2. Tho Independents will not stand to affirme that ordinary Officers are the servants of a particular Church as their Mistresse commissionating them and having Power over them Yet I am ready to think their stomacks will stand at it to affirme so much of the Apostles of Jesus Christ as Apostles And yet by that Text even the Apostles themselves as Apostles are held forth to be the Churches as well as ordinary Pastors and Rulers and that in a like maner for ought can be perceived by the Text. section 12 The 3. Argument SECT 4. Because otherwise if the Elders should exert power in these maters of Government without the joint Authoritative consent and vote of the members of the Church the Elders cannot but offend the little ones of the Church yea the tender consciences of stronger Brethren But offence ought not to be given to Christ little ones one of the least of the family Ergo c. To prove the assumption needlesse pains is taken Now if this Argument hold good it will conclude that not only men but women also must have joint authoritative consent and vote with the Elders in these maters of power and Government For
passage contrary to any truth otherwhere delivered in Scripture may consist with the purpose of Antecedents and Consequents in the context It may well be Intâ—…ret in such a particular signification in that particular place thâ— it could not be found in that same signification in any other place of Scripture Much more if the purpose intended in the Text and some circumstances to be found in the context be such as requires it to be taken in such a signification Now to the presâ—… purpose in hand 1. The genuine grammaticall signification of the word Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is such as may well be applyed to signifie a coâ—…tion or Colledge of Rulers and certain it is that the Hebrew word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is oftener then once in Scripture used for the convention 〈◊〉 Colledge of Judges or Rulers as Psal 82. â— 1. 2. To take the word in such a sense here for the Colledge of Church Rulers the Eldership puts no sense upon the place contrary to the Analogie of faâ—…or any truth otherwhere delivered in Scripture lâ—t Mr. Lockier shew us any thing of this kind What is brought by him a little after from 1 Cor. 5. 4. shall be considered in its place 3. â—here is nothing in the antecedents or consequents or in the context of the place inconsistent with it Yea 4. The purpose spoken of in the Text and circumstanâ—… are such as seeme to requâ—… it to be taken in such a signification â—…y I will â—ot say that the purpose or circumstances will force us to take the name of the Church here in a different signification from that whereby it signifies the visible society of Christians as well privat professours as Rulers Yet this I will say that such is the purpose and such circumstances are in the context as permits not all and every one Universally who are coprehended under â—…signification otherwise to be taken in as the definit persons to whom that dilation of offences and inflicting of censure spoken of there doth belong but that must be the Rulers alone I like well the judicious observation of Cameron in his praelect on the place pag. 26. Edit Salmur in 4. where after that he has said sundry things before upon the use of the word Ecclesia at last has these words which I think speaks the most genuine meaning of the place Aâ— haec omnia illud accedit c. to all saith he that hath been spoken this may be added that these things may be said to be told to the Church which are told to these who are with authority over the Church for as the body is said to see when as only the eyes do see so the Church is said to hear that which these only hear who are as it were the eyes of the Church noâ— that the Rulers are vicarii or substitutes of the Church as the eyes are not vicarii or substitutes of the hands and feet But as the body is a certain whoâ—e whereof the severall members have their severall functions in the very like manner the Church is aâ—… body that consists of the compaction of more members to each of which belongeth their proper functions so that when one presents an object to be seen by the eye he is said to present it to the body so he that dilaâ—eth a matter to the Colledge of Presbyters he seemeth to dilate it to the Church whereof that Colledge is a part so far he judiciously section 3 Now take the name of the Church in that sense that is competent to the whole body of Christian Professours yet that all and every one of the body signified by that name cannot be taken as the definite person to whom these actions spoken of here belongs as formally concuâ—…ing therein I prove 1. because the actions here spoken of as belonging to the Church are Acts of Government and Authority yea Acts of highest authority and power receiving of publick judiciall delations judging upon them authoritative commanding amendement of the offence inflicting of publick even the highest censure of Excommunication upon disobedience But cleat it is from Scripture that not to all and every one members of the Visible Church for example women and children are Acts of Government and Authority formally competent and therefore these things ascribed here to the Church cannot be understood to be ascribed to the whole Church Therefore I think Mr. Lockier must either say one of these two that of the whole Church women and children are no parts or that women and children must have an hand and concurrence formally in receiving publick judiciall delations c. or else he must correct that Which word Church Math. 18. 17. I judge doth mean the whole Church and expound it of all men of age in the Church Professours as well as Elders and then give us leave to ask him where he can finde the Church so used for only men of age professing excluding women and children And to use his own Argument if he cannot finde it so used otherwhere in Scripture how can he judge it to mean so here But 2. that the persons here designed cannot be all and every one of the Church that are men of age but must be the Rulers or Eldership only I prove 1. by an Argument ad hominem upon a ground acknowledged confessed and practized by these of the Independent way themselves well observed by worthy Mr. Baillie Disswasive from Err. par 1. c. 9. p. 192. they to whom offences are to be told immediately after the two or three witnesses in a private way are not heard are intended and meant here when Christ saith tell the Church But the Elders alone without the people concurring with them are these to whom offences are to be told and delated immediately c. Ergo. the Major or first Proposition is clear in the Text The Minor or Assumption is their own confession and practice See Hooker Surv. Part 3. c. 3. p. 36. maters are first brought to the Elders they must judge whether the maters be of weight or worth examine the cause call witnesses take depositions yea and at last ere ever the people give any vote propound the sentence dogmatically which the people are oblidged to obey in the same way that they are oblidged to obey their preaching of the Gospel So then either our Brethren must acknowledge that under the name of the Church here Tell the Church are intended the Elders alone or their doctrine and practice of bringing scandals first to the Eldership thus as we have seen must of necessity be not only groundlesse beside Scripture warrand but directly contrair to the Scripture in hand And here it is remarkable that the learned and godly Mr. Parker albeit he be of a judgment contrary to us touching the first subject of the power of the Keyes yet is forced to acknowledge with us that in these words Mat. 18. 17. Tell the Church in the beginning of the Verse is meant the
have power and authority graâ—en upon them and are such names as not only heathen writers but also the Greek Version of the Old Testament by the 72. and the Originall of the New Testament are wont to give to politicall Officers to expresse their politicall power and government now all these titles and denominations are attributed to Christs Officers in his Church as cannot be denyed And are not any where in Scripture attributed to the whole Church or any other member of the Church whatsoever besides Church Officers Nay they are ordinarly attributed to the Officers in contradistinction to the body of the Church But see we what the Author answers section 8 Minuta's saith he first in generall in Parables must not be fastened on but principalia what is their main scope Ans What And are all these names given to Christs Officers in his Church nothing else but parables Or are they Parables at all taking them as titles or names given to the Officers in the Church I have thought a Parable as we take it now in the Scripture sense to be narratio rei verae vel verisimiliter gestae ad simile significandum seu explicandum as Pareus describeth Math. 13. 3. i. e. a narration of a thing truly done or probable to signifie or explain a like thing and not a simple term or title given to a thing Indeed some of them no doubt are metaphoricall But a simple Metaphor for ought I know is not a Parable And I pray when the Apostle saith Rom. 12. 8. He that ruleth let him do it with diligence And 1 Corin. 12. 28. God hath set in the Church governments And 1 Thessal 5. 11. Know those that are over you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Lord and other such places is the Apostle in these places speaking parables But be it so that the Author takes a parable for a simple Metaphore Will any man but the Author say that all and every one of these forementioned names are attributed to the Officers of Christ in the Church only Metaphorically and none of them in a proper signification Indeed some of them I confesse are Metaphoricall as Father Pastors or Shepherds Stewards But withall others of them as Presbyters in the politicall sense of the word Rulers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are as properly and univocally attributed to them as unto such as in the civil Common-wealth have the same names attributed to them The Philosopher tells us Categor c. 1. that these are Synonyma and so participate a name properly which have not only the name common but also the same definition accommodate to thâ—t 〈…〉 â—o it is here as 〈…〉 Ecclâ—siaâ—… 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 a comâ—… 〈…〉 indued 〈…〉 â—ay of 〈…〉 â—…ndent 〈◊〉 will no◠〈…〉 same 〈…〉 being 〈…〉 proâ—… 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 Church â—o import in thâ—… 〈…〉 authority 〈…〉 we 〈…〉 to his mor◠〈…〉 section 9 Elders 〈…〉 should 〈…〉 not absolute â—ow 〈…〉 power is to make th◠〈…〉 self and oâ—hers 〈…〉 as being 〈…〉 stock Ans 〈…〉 brought by 〈…〉 â—…urch of the 〈…〉 borrowed â—rom the 〈…〉 â—…ether Ecclesâ—…stick 〈…〉 â—…at can be said to â—lude the 〈…〉 â—…tive power of Government 〈…〉 abundantly dâ—shâ—d by 〈…〉 â—…d Book â— c. 9. pag. 〈…〉 his read I wonder â—ow 〈…〉 sâ—ry answer he hat◠〈…〉 Author hath on this purpose 〈…〉 him adding what 〈…〉 true that the 〈…〉 which of thâ—m yâ—u 〈…〉 Rulâ—… of the Woâ—d 〈…〉 â—o more 〈…〉 to direct 〈…〉 â—…sell or 〈…〉 the Rul◠〈…〉 having 〈…〉 others 〈…〉 rules aâ—… 〈…〉 superio◠〈…〉 as Beza 〈…〉 vit no◠〈…〉 word 〈…〉 â—xim◠〈…〉 Sep◠〈…〉 â—the◠〈…〉 thâ— is 〈…〉 use 〈…〉 of Government 〈…〉 Church 〈◊〉 it 〈…〉 Mr. Loâ—â—… 〈…〉 the only 〈…〉 â—…me name 〈…〉 whic◠〈…〉 way of counsell and 〈…〉 of â—…wer and 〈…〉 to all the Church 〈…〉 way of 〈…〉 to authority and 〈…〉 simple 〈…〉 forth of â—…ght 2. 〈…〉 this 〈…〉 â—…uted to the Office 〈…〉 were to makâ—… 〈…〉 â—…erse exposition 〈…〉 think the Authorâ—… 〈…〉 â—representing oâ—… 〈…〉 â—ording 〈…〉 unto 〈…〉 â—steriall not 〈…〉 but also limited 〈…〉 â—…sts 〈…〉 people 〈◊〉 obligâ—… 〈…〉 of the wor◠〈…〉 simple direâ—… 〈…〉 and perswasâ—… 〈…〉 â—governâ—… 〈…〉 â—…all Go◠〈…〉 Presbyteriaâ—… 〈…〉 not meerly 〈…〉 â—reater knowledg◠〈…〉 â—an of knowledg◠〈…〉 â—oer of 〈…〉 Erastian sayeth 〈…〉 â—differ one from an other 〈…〉 â—ost contrary to common 〈…〉 â—…ment 2. I would 〈…〉 who le body of the 〈…〉 then meeâ— diâ—ection 〈…〉 â—thoritative power of government 〈…〉 that their power over 〈◊〉 absolute 〈…〉 â—ver their â—aith I think◠〈…〉 say that 〈…〉 Ministeriall and such 〈…〉 very place 2 Cor. 1. as in v. 24 â—…ed by the Author he affirâ—… of himself and other Officers that they did not take unto themselves a 〈…〉 power ovâ—… 〈…〉 of the Church So in the 〈…〉 Officers had a 〈…〉 then of meer 〈…〉 To spare you 〈…〉 power to corâ—… 〈…〉 â—…oved to have 〈…〉 Go we on with the 〈…〉 section 10 They ar◠〈…〉 such 〈◊〉 should use diligent inspeâ—… 〈…〉 to the â—…ck that none go astâ—… 〈…〉 â—…oof consolation c. 〈…〉 â—…ops or Lording Presbyâ—… 〈…〉 dominantes in Ecclesiâ—â—… 〈…〉 â—…stle doth not by that 〈…〉 ove◠〈◊〉 in◠〈…〉 or Lording Presbyteâ—… 〈…〉 Church by force and violence Mr. Lockier but stand 〈◊〉 the Doctrine of Presbyterians in 〈…〉 â—…tation of the tâ—rme upon them and fights 〈…〉 own 〈…〉 We 〈◊〉 no other sort of powâ—… 〈…〉 to Presbyterâ— over the Church than he 〈…〉 to the Congregation and Presbyters joyntly 〈…〉 particular member Unlesse he will with State-sycoâ—…t â—rastiaâ—… deny all Ecclesiastick rule and government and I 〈◊〉 he will not say this is Lording or Lordly rule dominiering by 〈…〉 violence The Question between Presbyterians and Independâ—… is not touching the nature of Ecclesiastick power of government in it self whether Lordly domiâ—ering or not but touching the Subject in which it is and by which it is to be formally exâ—…sed whether the Officers of the Church or the whole collective body of the Church We say the Officers or Elders only and that the nam◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 importing a ruling power and authority given to them by the Spirit of God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in contradiâ—…ction to the body of the Church proveâ— this which is not infringed by what is said by Mr. Lockier here For â— when as he â—…yeth that they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because of diligent inspection waâ—…fulnesse heed taking to the flock that none go astray for want of counsell 〈…〉 consolâ—… 〈…〉 whether be means inspecâ—… 〈…〉 over 〈…〉 â—…hibiting reproof consoâ—…on 〈…〉 a not-authoritative 〈…〉 we have our point For 〈…〉 by that name and the 〈…〉 â—guished from the rest of 〈…〉 that the power of râ—…ing is only 〈…〉 by them only If he say the later 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 to every single Beleever 〈…〉 11 12. Coloss 3. 16. Galat. 6. 1. and 〈…〉 might have the name of
Congregation ' tisfilly and might well be said among Children but may blush to come out before understanding Men. By this Argument when our Saviour sayeth upon this Rock will I build my Church And the Apostle 1 Cor. 12. He hath set in the Church First some Apostles c. And Ephes 5. He loved his Church and gave himself for it Because it is in the Singular Number Church not Churches in all these places Therefore it must be only one single Congregation meant in all of them When as it is indeed the whole Catholick Church and not any particular singular Congregation So the name flock in the Singular Number why may it not be taken collectivè for such a flock as contained in it diverse particular flocks as Gen. 33. 13. yea and in the very present Metaphoricall sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Luke 12. 32. little flock and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 John 10. 16. one Sheep fold tho both in the Singular Number yea and in the latter place with the Cardinall number added to it one signifieth the Church Catholick and so comprehendeth many particular Flocks Folds and Churches As to M. Lockiers last words in this Sect. here is no joint voice c. indeed we grant that in that meeting there was no joint voting of Elders Because these Elders then were not meet to act in Government but had been sent for by Paul to receive direction from him concerning the managing of their charge But supposing that which is proved from other places that there were more single Congregations in Ephesus then one we find here these Congregations held forth to be one Church and there were many Elders over these many Congregations as one flock one Church And that is enough for our purpose The next place he meeteth with and which he calleth one of the most weighty indeed it is so weighty to the purpose we are on that it crusheth the new supream Independent Tribunall erected by our Brethren in single Congregations is that concerning the Synod Act. 15. 28. To this the Author Answers 1. Here sayeth he is an Eldership of severall Churches indeed met But as touching the coercion of their power as such excerped Eldership enforcing their results upon other Churches this is the other thing to be brought in to make up the businesse we Dispute against Answ First 't is well Mr. Lockier acknowledgeth that was an Eldership of severall Churches even a Synodicall Presbytery a Synod as himself calls it afterward Sect. 29. Some of his side have said otherwise the Dissenting Brethren in their Reasons against the Assemblies allegation of Acts 15. for subordination of Synods That Ass was not a formall Synod but only a reference by the particular Church of Antioch unto this particular Church of Jerusalem and no other But we think Mr. Lockier speaketh the truth that it was a Synod 2. We must here again note his invidious misrepresenting of our Doctrine We do not ascribe to that or any other Synod a power of coertion to enforce their results upon any but an authoritative juridicall power to enjoyn authoritatively their determinations agreeable to the Word of God and to censure the disobedient and disorderly with meer spirituall censures as admonition Excommunication which import no enforceing â— propriety of speech Nor do we say that that or any other Synod hath power thus authoritatively to enjoyn their determinations upon other Churches we say they have this power only in relation to these Churches associated in the Synod and none other So not that which Mr. Lockier sayeth but this is the other thing to be brought in to make the Presbytery we speak for what ever it be that he Disputes against which oftentimes is his own fiction an juridicall power authoritatively enjoining its determinations and which may censure with spirituall Ecclesiastick censures the disobeyers and disorderly And this we doubt not will be found in this place Act. 15. section 11 After this the Author pretending to be clear and full in answering this place he premitteth two things which Reverend Hocker hath also Survey Part. 4. c. 1. 1 That the Apostles tho they were extraordinary Officers yet in this meeting they did not act as such because they joined with them ordinary Churches what ordinary Churches is contradistinguished unto I know not well and Officers and all Disputed and enquired And so here was left a samplar to all succeeding generations In this we agree with him Only by the way we note that we see not why he should have said before Sect. 25. that in the ordination of Deacons the Apostles acted as extraordinary persons seeing there also they joined the Church with them in the election of the persons to be ordained His 2. premisse is that the sentence decreed in that Synod was not Scripture because they decreed it as still it was when the Apostles moved by the proper Spirit of their Apoâ—…olicall station according to that 2 Pet. 1. 21. but what they decreed was by debate found out to be either expresse in Scripture or undenyably deduced from thence So by one of these wayes was found to be Scripture and was therefore decreed and injoyned by them upon others And then goes out a while in clearing this which we need not insist on And to passe other things that might be noted in this second premisse granting both what would he infer hereupon That in the close of Sect. 28. So that what they produced by debate was materially binding for asmuch as what they produced was for the matter of it no other but the will of God but not formally as the result of such a Collegiat Eldership Answ This last followeth not upon any thing in the former premisses For tho their decrees were not Scripture because decreed by them but decreed by them because found to be Scripture or agreeable to generall rules of Scripture and therefore injoined by them to the Churches It followes indeed that their primary and fundamentall obligatorinesse is materiall And were they not such they could not formally as decrees of the Synod be obligatory or binding But it doth not follow that simpliciter they are not binding formally as decrees of the Synod The obligatorinesse of decrees of a Synod formally as decrees of a Synod is secundary subordinate and regulate but for that it is not no obligatorinesse at all Yea one of his own contradicts him in terminis in this Mr. Cotton speaking of the decrees of this very Synod Keyes c. 6. this binding power is not only materially from the weight of the matters imposed which are necessary necessitate praecepti from the word but also formally from the Authority of the Synod section 12 But come we to his clear Answ he brings it in by way of reply to an Object Had then this Synod no authoritative power at all For what end then is the Ordinance This indeed is a pertinent Question propounded by the Author to himself And if he asserting as
but in his immediatly preceeding words he has done that the decrees of this Synod were binding only materially as matters revealed in the Scripture and not formally can withall Answer this Question affirmatively that this Synod had an authoritative power as such an Ordinance as a Synod Erit mihi magnus Apollo nay I shall say Mr. Lockier can make contradictories agree well enough See we then his Answ to this A forrain Eldership rightly constituted hath particular authority i. a power of preheminent and prevailing counsel though not a power of jurisdiction to constrain their results to be practised or to censure Ecclesiastically in case persons who have the result of things produced by them do not follow them They have as an Ordinance of God a power of preheminent and prevailing counsel That is their result ought to be preferred and prevail more upon our hearts then what Interpretation other single persons and ordinary helps ordinarily afford Answ First here ere I come to the main businesse note shortly some few things 1. We never attributed authority to a forrain Eldership over any persons or Churches Mr. Lockier here saying that a forrain Eldership hath peculiar authority if his meaning be according to his words if he understand authority indeed that is an Eldership extrinsecall to Churches yet hath peculiar authority over them goeth farther then ever Presbyterians did and indeed goeth clearly contrary to truth and in terms speaketh very like the Prelatick way which attributed to a forrain Eldership the Prelate and his Cathedrall authority over all the Churches in the Diocaese But indeed his words and his sense agree not For his peculiar authority is no authority as we shall see anone 2. We say yet it is but an odious feigned description of that power of jurisdiction we attribute to Synods and other associated Presbyteries when it is called a power to constrain their results to be practised as we have discovered it before 3. It is yet a grosser misrepresentation that we attribute unto such Presbyteries a power to censure persons Ecclesiastically in case they have the result of things produced by them and do not follow them Did ever any Persbyterian say such a thing as this that a Synod or Presbytery has power to censure persons who have their results by them and does not follow them For example that a Synod in Scotland hath power to censure persons in England or France that have their results by them and does not follow them or that any Presbytery hath power to censure persons of the Church within the bounds of their association who may be have their resultâ— by them and not follow them If this has been said out of a mistake and ignorance we pity it and wishes the Author to know our Doctrine better ere he take upon him to represent it to others If it has been of purpose to render our Doctrine odious let his own conscience judge what sort of dealing this is section 13 But to come to the purpose in hand Mr. Lockiers clear and plain answer at last to this place of Act. 15. 28. is that that Synod exercised no power of jurisdiction but a power of counsell or advice only He calls it indeed a peculiar authority But when he makes it to be but counsell that is to give it a bare name for credits sake And to deny it the thing of that name Counsell or advice is but an act of charity and if good of wisdom and prudence and not of authority 'T is no other act but that which one man may do to a Church one brother to another one woman to another yea as Mr. Rutherfurd saith Abigail to David a maid to Naaman That the Author saith it is a power of preheminent and prevailing counsell that it ought to prevail more upon our hearts than the interpretation of single persons and ordinary helps availeth not For preheminent counsell is still but counsell and so that which is attributed to the Synod differeth no wayes from that which is competent to any single persons to do or one sister and equall Church to another but only gradually And suppose a company of Christians Pastors or others met together not Synodically being persons of known piety and understanding in maters of Religion their counsell would be such a preheminent and prevailing counsell that it ought to be preferred and prevail more with our hearts then the interpretation of single persons So hereby there is no peculiar authority or power granted to that Synod as such an Ordinance of God If yet it shall be said that their counsell is preheminent and prevailing ought to prevail more upon our hearts c. not only upon this ground that they are many pious and understanding men and liker to find out the minde of God in his Word then single persons But also because they are such an institute meeting a Synod To this I cannot see how Mr. Lockier can say this having but now told us that the decrees of the Synod bind materially as being the will of God but not formally as the result of the Presbytery For what else is it to say that their results ought to prevail more upon our hearts because the result of such men as a Synod but that they are binding formally as the results of the Synod 2. If there be a preheminency or power of prevailing in the decree of a Synod so that there is an obligation upon our hearts to be more prevailed with over and above that preheminency and power of prevailing which is in the counsâ—l of a company of pious and understanding men met occasionally not in a Synod which certainly ought to be preferred and to prevail more with our hearts then the interpretation of single persons I would ask what is that different power if it be not a juridicall power and consequently of censure upon disobedience For if it shall be said it is not juridicall power but only dogmaticall or doctrinall then I say this is competent to every single Pastor For a truth of the Gospel taught and delivered by a single Pastor ought to be beleeved and obeyed i. e. bindeth to obedience and faith not only because it is Gospel but because it is doctrinally taught by a Minister and so that preheminent and prevailing power shall differ from the power of a single Pastor but only gradually and is the very same in kinde and so no peculiar authority or power of a Synod as such an Ordinance of God But now whereas Mr. Lockier asserteth that this Synod at Jerusalem Act. 15. had not nor did exercise a juridicall power but only a power of counsell or advice We assert the contrair which is abundantly proven by sundry learned Writers treating upon this subject and maintained against all Objections made to the contrair by Opposites We refer the Reader for satisfaction to these namely Mr. Gillespy Assert of the Govern of the Church of Scotl. Part. 2. c. 8. Aarons Rod Book 2. c. 9. Arg.
21. Papers of the Assem of Divines Ans to the Reas of the Dissenting Brethren against the instance of the Church of Jerus Jus Divin of Church Govern by the London Ministers Part. 2. c. 14. Mr. Rutherfurd due Right of Presbyteries pag. 355. At length treating upon this place Spanhem Epist ad David Bucan class 3. rat 3. There is so much said by these to this purpose that I need not increase the bulk of this Book by setting down any Reasons here against Mr Lockier if he will be pleased to take unto his consideration what is already said by them he may do well Come we to his Reasons brought to prove that this Synod exercised only a power of counsell not of jurisdiction Of four brought by Mr. Hooker Survey Part. 4. c. 1. pag. 13 14. he borroweth two 1. Is made up of two processes the first whereof is this These decrees are said to bind these to whom they are sent But they were sent to all the Churches of the Gentiles This is evident saith Mr. Lockier Acts 21. 25. as touching the Gentiles that believe we have written and concluded that they observe c. Ergo they did bind all the Churches of the Gentiles Answ To this 1. for the Major where is it so said I cannot remember any place of the story where this is said If he and Hooker from whom he hath this mean that we say and confesse this that the decrees of the Synod bind all these to whom they are sent that we never said If it be understood of binding as Synodicall decrees A Synod in one Nation may send their decrees unto Churches of another Nation as was ordinary to do in the Primitive times yet we say not that the decrees of a Synod of one Nation binds the Churches in another Nation though may be the mater of them binds them 2. For the minor If the meaning be as it must be that the Argument may speak to the purpose it is intended for that they were sent by way of Synodicall decrees to all the Churches of the Gentiles as certainly they were to some we deny it the place cited Act. 21. 25. proves it not For it speaks of the Gentiles indefinitly and clearly relates to the Letter written Act. 15. where the very inscription bears that so they were sent only to the Gentiles in Antioch Syria and Cilicia v. 23. 'T is true Paul and Barnabas delivered the decrees to others as they went through the cities Act. 16. 4. but it is not said that they were sent to them by way of Synodicall decrees as they were to these other Churches But grant that one way or other they were sent also to the rest of the Churches of the Gentiles that is that it was the will and intention of the Synod that as occasion should serve they should be delivered to them and we shall also grant the conclusion of this first processe in some sense that they did bind all the Churches of the Gentiles See we what Mr. Lockier will infer upon this in his next processe section 15 Now these saith he i. all the Churches of the Gentiles had no Commissioners delegated to that Synod Therefore what the Synod did could not bind them by way of authoritative jurisdiction because where is no delegation of Commissioners there is no right of jurisdiction They did bind them only by way of counsell and materially as things clearly held forth in the Word of God Answ If Mr. Lockier when he sayeth now these had no Commissioners there c. if he mean this Universally that none of the Churches of the Gentiles had Commissioners there it is clearly false If he mean only that some of them had no Commissioners there it is true and we grant that the decrees of the Synod did not bind these Churches by way of jurisdiction and formally as decrees of the Synod but materially But hence it followeth not that they did not bind at all nor any by way of jurisdiction For some Gentile Churches had their Commissioners there and were Members of the Synod Antioch Syria and Cilicia these two last if they had not yet they might and ought to have had and it is most probable they had and so these Churches might be bound by them by way of jurisdiction and formally for ought that is brought in this Argument and they did so bind them as is abundantly proven in the Authors cited before section 16 I cannot here passe by the Observation of the two Syllogistick moulds whereinto Hooker casts this last processe that Mr. Lockier has borrowed from him in the place of his Survey last cited The 1. is this The decrees of a Synod bind only such by Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction who delegate messengers to the Synod But the decrees of this Synod bind more then these who delegated messengers to it to wit all the Churches of the Gentiles Therefore it did not intend to bind by Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction Truely 't is a pity to see a Godly man beguiling himself in such maters with such illogicall sillie Arguments I will not stay to exaggerate this to the full who sees not the grosse peccancy of this And if the Author would have concluded formally and right upon his premises the conclusion should have been this Therefore the decrees of this Synod did bind more Churches then such as it did bind by Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction And this he shall have granted by us without contradiction but also without any advantage to his cause His second mould which he sayeth is more plain is this These who send the decrees of the Synod to such Churches who never sent their Commissioners thither They send only by way of counsell But this Synod sent their decrees to all the Churches of the Gentiles who nâ—ver senâ— their Commissioners thither Ergo they sent only by way of counsell This is as louse for mater as to his point in hand as the former was peccant in forme For as to the Major The Synod which send their decrees to Churches who never sent at least ought to have sent their Commissioners thither send only by way of counsell to these Churches true indeed But if the meaning be that that Synod which sends their decrees to such Churches as never sent their Commissioners thither send only by way of counsel to all to whom they send them this is as easily denyed as it is affirmed and I believe it shall be long ere we hear a proof of it Then to the Minor That this Synod of Jerusalem sent their decrees to some Churches of the Gentiles that never sent their Commissioners thither let it be granted Yet it is as certain some to whom they sent them bad their Commissioners there as members And so for the 〈◊〉 it may be granted that this Synod sent their decrees to 〈…〉 only by way of counsel But from nothing in the Argument doth 〈◊〉 follow that they sent them only thus to all to whom they sent them
escape of the Printer Only 't is to be noted that the place is â—ust so Printed in the Reasons of 〈◊〉 Dissenting Brethrâ—n against the Assâ—mblies 3. Proposition coâ—cerning Presbyteriall Government whence thâ—â—…thor â—orrowâ—… iâ—â—…re 1 Tim. 1. 17. where I doubt not but â—he 〈…〉 been the Printers section 5 Anothâ—… gâ—ouâ—d 〈…〉 It is not bare labouring in the Word in a place thâ—… 〈…〉 Elder â—aâ— I conceive that formally constituâ—… and 〈◊〉 one aâ— Elder but being over them fixed and 〈…〉 such a station over them And then where this is piâ—ched 〈…〉 â—…is â—…nds his work of conduct and discipline 〈…〉 thâ—… it is not bare labouring in the Word in a place 〈◊〉 constituâ—… and denomâ—…tes an Elder or Minister 〈…〉 â—he Word in a place such labouring 〈…〉 noâ— called to that work And 〈…〉 of Christ but it is as true that nâ—… 〈◊〉 is 〈…〉 commissioned to such a station i. to such 〈…〉 that notes him or constitutes him a Minâ—ster 〈…〉 is which notes and constitutes a Minister 〈…〉 according to thâ— order instituted by Christ 〈…〉 with Offâ—ce to 〈◊〉 the Gospel and to dispence 〈…〉 Which Offâ—… 〈◊〉 â—…ally 〈◊〉 is in 〈…〉 â—…ely And â—is fiâ—ing to 〈…〉 not make him a Minister buâ— onl◠〈…〉 â—o â—uâ—h a Congregation for the constâ—… and 〈…〉 See this we say 〈◊〉 â—…dantly demonstâ—… 〈…〉 Hâ—dsoâ— Vindiâ— of the Ess and Vnitiâ— c. c. 6. pag. 138 〈…〉 The third thiâ—g he briâ—geth is thâ—… 〈…〉 Keyâ—… viz. of Doctrine and Discipline 〈…〉 distinguisâ—ed ye◠〈…〉 divided Chris◠〈◊〉 â—…oined and 〈…〉 together But to 〈◊〉 where wâ—e are 〈…〉 is to dividâ—… 〈…〉 â—ow â—ell Christ â—…ll â—…ke 〈…〉 how well men 〈…〉 sâ—verall hundred 〈◊〉 â—…ars in blood and tyranny hath shâ—wâ—d 〈◊〉 Aâ—sw 1. The Keyâ—… oâ— Doctrine and Discipline are not so 〈…〉 â—on from another as the Author by his big words wâ—uld 〈◊〉 his Readers in hand 1. In the very 〈◊〉 or actus primâ—… they are separated The Ruling Elder â—ath the Key of Jurisdâ—ction or Discipline and exerciseth it but not the Key of Docâ—…ine 2. Eveâ— where they are â—oyned together in habit they are divided and separated in act The Pastor of a Congrâ—gation when he â—…cheth doth not eâ—…cise Discipline nor when he exerciseth Discipline or Jurisdiction doth he at that same time teach Yea further Hâ— may and doth teach alone but he 〈…〉 Jâ—…diction alone but in combination and in collegâ—… with â—thers Obj. But they are divided in regard of the object by thâ— Presbyâ—erian way The Pastor in the associate Presbytery 〈◊〉 â—urisdiction over them whom he doth not teach And Châ—iâ—… 〈…〉 joined them together in thiâ— relation that tâ—… one 〈…〉 â—…cised towards any but to 〈◊〉 the othâ—… is also 〈…〉 Author indeed sayeth so that Christ â—…th appointed 〈…〉 brought a place of Scripture 〈…〉 The places by him here 〈…〉 put home this to the Author 〈…〉 can exercise rule onely in relation 〈…〉 where he is fixed to preach ordinaâ—…y Bâ—…ause 〈…〉 to divide thâ— Keyes which he alledgeth to â—e even in the 〈…〉 â—o tyed togetheâ— aâ—â—e hath said But I ask him 〈…〉 preach the Gospel 〈◊〉 otherâ— then of his own 〈…〉 by going 〈…〉 admitting thâ—… to 〈…〉 to the 〈…〉 the Lords 〈◊〉 to 〈…〉 wayes 〈◊〉 this he denyes wit◠〈…〉 of Christians 〈◊〉 of these of one single 〈…〉 publick Ordinancâ—… of Jesus Christ if he grant it then he divâ—des the Keyes which 〈◊〉 â—…yes Christ hath tyed togâ—ther section 6 As to his bloody word 〈◊〉 like many others in this his little peece a groundlesse â—…ander There have not â—een severall 〈◊〉 of years since that way of Government â—…ch we staâ—d 〈◊〉 by Christ◠〈…〉 associated Presbyâ—…s was 〈…〉 the Christian 〈◊〉 Which for many hundreds of years waâ—â—…bed thereof by Poâ—…s and papall Prelates And since by th◠〈◊〉 â—mercy it waâ— restored to the Church it hath been a blâ—…d meane where it has had place to preserve the Church of Jesuâ— Christ But for blood if he mean shedding of blood by iâ— 't is â—ot a very bloody slander to attribute this to it And for tyranny I think no man qui non perfricâ—it fronteâ— can say it is a way of it self inclinable to that when as the very constitution of it is to 〈◊〉 to persons alledging themselves wronged and possibly wronged indeed by the sentence and judgement of a smaller Judicatory a way of recognition and relief by a larger associated Judicatory If this be a way in it self inclinable 〈◊〉 â—…anny I confesse I see not but we may as wâ—ll say that â—…ard is dâ—…ward and dounward is upward But now to wâ— the exercise oâ— the Keyes so together and in so narrow bâ—undâ— as Mr. Lockâ—… would have them That is to say soâ—… 〈◊〉 of â—n Eldershâ—p of a particular Congregation together wiâ—h their people 〈◊〉 be 7 10 or 20 persons that they are made the 〈…〉 Ecclesiasticaâ— on earth and there may be no 〈…〉 of the Churches of Christ in an authoritative 〈…〉 any wrong whatsoever they mâ—y do 〈…〉 and Trueth in their dogmaticall detâ—rmâ—…ations oâ— in tâ—eir 〈…〉 censures upon persons if this be noâ— a wa◠〈…〉 tyranny yea and loosenesse and conâ—usion 〈…〉 lâ—t any man of common sense judge 〈…〉 proof even a few years hath given of th◠〈…〉 â—ell Who ma◠〈◊〉 see it and what truâ— Chriâ—… 〈…〉 it without bâ—eâ—…ng heart and weeping eyes 〈…〉 aâ— this day SECTION â—… Examination of Mr. Lockiers 3d Medium pursued in SECTION 38 and 39. section 1 HIs third Medium to 〈◊〉 that a Presbytery havinâ—â—ower of jurisdiction over 〈◊〉 Congregations then onâ— is 〈◊〉 device of man and not aâ— ordinance of God is that 〈◊〉 destroyâ—…â—he end for which Church power and jurisdiction is to which it pretends In the prosecution whereof â—t is a mater of woâ—dâ—r â—o see what confusion loosenesse of reâ—soning and I may say also none-none-sense there is 'T is not worth the while to insist on â—he Observation of every particular thâ—…â—ight â—e observed In summe he bringeth three considerations to make 〈◊〉 out that such Presbyteries destroyes or â—ludes the end of Church power and jurisdiction to which it preâ—…ndeth One iâ— in Sect. 38. two others in the following Sections section 2 First These sojourning Eldershipâ— sojourning Elderships we know not what nor where 〈…〉 many associating Coâ—… 〈…〉 in common while thus pretâ—nding 〈…〉 like the laâ—wing â—aw off 〈…〉 their young my meaning is 〈…〉 it takes off people 〈◊〉 that which 〈…〉 grounâ—… may warrâ—… 〈…〉 a riddle to 〈…〉 What 〈…〉 pronoune their relate◠〈…〉 to the lapwing or to the peopâ—… 〈…〉 of them be said I cannâ—… 〈…〉 Againe for that which 〈…〉 c. Whâ—… 〈…〉 Congreâ—…tion 〈…〉 â—terie takâ—… 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 Or in 〈◊〉 busineâ—… of commâ—… 〈…〉 contraverâ—ed 〈…〉 and that not to 〈…〉 And â—ow 〈…〉 Author 〈…〉 ends i. 〈…〉 then 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 on to 〈…〉 followeth section 3 〈…〉 have many 〈…〉 which are 〈…〉 then 〈…〉 of a Congrâ—…ion
who must do it If some other Ecclesiasticall Court then should not a single Congregation have compleat power of jurisdiction within it self without subordination to any other Ecclesiastick Court in point of jurisdiction If the Congregation contradistinguished from the Eldership then the Congregation alone by it self has power enough of jurisdiction and censure and then what needed it be said the Congregation with their Eldership And indeed this is the way that some Independents goe In their judgement the Congregation of privat beleevers does choose ordain and make their Eldership and they may censure depose and Excommunicat all their Eldership So that these Authors when intending a description of the Congregationall way i. e. the Independent way they attribute the power of jurisdictiction and censure to the Congregation with their Eldership if they mean as their words seemeth to import and they must be understood unlesse they minded to aequivocat that the power of jurisdiction is given to these jointly and not to either of them severally either they have not been acquainted with the mind of all these of the Congregationall way or they have dissembled the latter of which I have not reason to impute to all these Authors The truth is the Authors of the Congregationall way are at a great deal of difference among themselves even to salt contradictions concerning the subject of the power of Ecclesiastick jurisdiction as Mr. Caudry has evidenced in the place cited by us before P. 2. Sect. Go we on to their probation of their Assertion They cite one passage of Scripture first telling us withall that there are diverse other Scriptures which they passe by But I beleeve it shal be long ere they let us see them viz. Mat. 18 15 16 17 18. and do build two Arguments on it according to the two things involved in their Assertion The former lyeth thus in their own words section 3 The Church there tell it unto the Church spoken of has compleat power of binding and loosing as is clear from v. 17. and 18. but the Church is not the Classicall Presbytery But the Eldership with the Congregation Therefore c. The Assumption is clear because it is not to be found in all the Gospel that a company of Elders whether of a Classis or a Congregation apart from the Congregation is called a Church Indeed a Congregation with Elders commonly yea and sometime contradistinguished from Elders ay sometime without Elders is termed a Church Act. 15. 4. 22 23. And Act. 14. 23. Now what an absurdity were it to reject the usuall acception of the word in the New Test and without any colour of reason to coine a sense which no where is to be found in all the Gospel though the word be most frequently used in it section 4 Answ To passe sundry things which might be noted upon this Argument and for brevities sake to insist only upon that which is materiall the drift of this first Argument tends to the probation of the former part involved in the Authors Assertion to wit that the power of jurisdiction Ecclesiastick is not in the Eldership or Officers of the Church but in the community of believers jointly with the Elders and the weight of the whole Argument lyeth upon the signification of the term Church And all which is said is but an old song that has been an hundred times dashed by worthy and learned men already See what we have said already upon the same alledgeance by Mr. Lockier above P. 2. Sect. 3. § 2. and 3. For the present I shall say but these things on it 1. When as these Authors say that in the New Testament the name of the Church is taken sometimes for the Congregation i. e. in their sense the community of beleevers with the Eldership jointly sometimes for the Congregation as contradistinguished from Elders and sometime for a Congregation without Elders and asserteth that here in this place it is to be understood in the first of these three acceptions to wit as it comprehendeth both Congregation and Elders I would gladly know how and by what Argument they prove that it is so to be understood here and not rather in one of the other two for the Congregation as contradistinguished from the Elders or for the Congregation without Elders For that we see only asserted by them but no proof of it brought Only this much they insinuat that it is commonly so used But that will not prove that so it must be taken in this particular place If they would assayed to bring any Arguments to prove that the name of the Church here must be taken not for the Congregation as contradistinguished from or without Elders but for the Congregation with the Eldership jointly I doubt not but we should found them all to be such as speaks power of jurisdiction and government in the Eldership as contradistinguished from the rest of the Congregation 2. What though the word Church be no where else in the New Testament used for the Elders or Governours of the Church as contradistinguished from the body of believers yet this is but a very weak Argument to prove that it is not so to be understood here so be that the genuine grammaticall signification thereof be such as may well be applyed as indeed the word answering to it in the Hebrew is frequently in the Old Testament applyed to signifie a Colledge or Society of Judges or Governours as contradistinguished from the people See Mr. Hudson Vindic. of the Essence and Vnity c. 'T is some rashnes in the Authors to call this sense of the word a coined sense Even prophane Greek Authors have used it in such a sense I mean for a meeting of Rulers Demosthenes used the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 proconcione magnatum It is yet more then rashnesse I may say it is a great impudency that they say it is without any colour of reason taken in this sense in this place These Authors said before that they have used all helps they could have upon this controversie Now let them tell us did they never read in any Writers upon this controversie of Church Government who expones the word Church of the Eldership or Governours of the Church so much as any colour of reason brought by them for expounding the word in that sense How can they hold up their face and say this Did they ever read Beza his Annot. on the place Or Mr. Rutherfurds Peaceable Plea c. 8. Surely the help of these Authors they easily might have had Sure I am if they have read these to mention no moe they might have found some colour at least of reason brought for the Interpretation Nay let them but read the latter of the two over again I believe they shal find such reality of reason brought for it as they shall never be able to avoide Verily whether we take the word Church here in a different signification from that whereby it signifies the societie
not a pillar and ground to bear up truth unto the world or dead persons who only made a Profession of Religion might have done that office well enough 3. Then either in the Church of God there was none at least there might have been a true Church offering and yet no pure offering no offering spiritualor then a pure offering i. e. service spirituall holy and acceptable unto God might have been offered by persons who only did professe Religion were dead stones having nothing of spirituality in them but meer formality and so hypocriticall and amongst the number of them that are most abominable Let the Author if he hold that difference intimated in his restriction between the Churches of the Old and New Testam extricate himself of these things which I am much deceived if he shall be able to do unlesse either he retract his restriction or otherwise shoar upon some Socinian and Anabaptistick Fancy concerning the ancient Church section 3 Secondly Let it be marked here that Mr. Lockier clearly asserteth that the necessary and essentiall qualification absolutely requisite to constitute persons matter or in a capacity to be Members of a Visible Church is true saving Grace known to God the searcher of hearts and that is such grace in the verity of the thing and not only in the judgment of charity Others in the Independent way have spoken more warily in this matter though indeed I confesse I do not see how considering their prosecution of the point and the Arguments they use in it they do not run into this same in the issue However it may hence appear it was not for nought that the Author said in his Epistle to the Reader That he has spoken with more plain dealing then some other of his Brethren who have wrote of this Subject section 4 But haply it may be said that he explaineth himself in the next words viz. so far as men converted are able to discern and judge Which seemeth to import a resolving of the matter into the judgement of charity Ans This seemeth not sufficiently to salve the mater for this additament seemeth to be brought in rather to expresse the mean whereby persons so qualified as is said before viz. truly converted c. are to be found out then to expresse any thing in the objective qualification of the mater of a visible Church And certainly the Arguments brought afterward by the Author to confirm his Thesis speak all for men godly in the truth of the thing as will appear when we come at them section 5 The third thing I would have marked in the Authors proposall of his Doctrine is this that the judges by whose estimation men are to passe as the qualified mater of a Visible Church are by him determined to be men truely converted and very spirituall All Writers of the Independent way have not I confesse come to my hand but of these I have seen I remember of none that saith this much so that it seemeth to be a new conception of his own touching which I humbly desire satisfaction in these particulars 1. By this when a person desireth to be admitted a member of a Church it followeth that his qualification is to be judged not by the estimation of the whole Church but of some speciall members thereof which is point-blank contrary to the Independent way of Government The consequence I prove 1. thus Either it must be said that all and every one of the Church are truely converted de facto or if that be not said this which we have said doth unavoidably follow but the former will not be undertaken by the Author because it is point-blank contrary to plain Scripture telling us that many are called but few chosen and this is confessed by such as are most peremptory for his way of Church constitution * Barrow discov false Church p. â—…0 Ainsworth Objection Ay but all are true Converts in the judgment of charity Answ Such explanation is not mentioned or hinted by the Author when he speaketh to this point of the Judges by whose estimation Church-mater is to passe 2. I prove the consequence thus Mr. Lockier speaketh of such men to be Judges as are not only truely converted but also very spirituall Now very spirituall importeth I conceive in plain English if not a superlative degree yet certainly somewhat above the meer positive to be very spirituall is more yea much more then simply to be really and truely spirituall So that either he must of necessity say that a Visible Church must consist of such only who are not only simply true converts but also much more far advanced Christians and so new born Babes bruised reeds and smoaking flax must be held out crushed and quenched or that which we said must follow Now I suppose yet further that most part of the Congregation be spirituall but in the positive degree and onely two or three or a few number in comparison be very spiritual certainly this may be by our Brethrens way of constituting a Church for they grant such as have any thing the least thing in truth of Christ appearing in them are not to be excluded then the resolution and judging of the whole businesse must be devolved upon these few Nay I must presse it yet further Albeit it may be granted that when a Church is now compleatly constitute in its integrality and organized with all its members it cannot be well supposed but there will be therein some such men very spirituall at least Rulers whom if so be they had not of themselves while they were yet a gathering yet it may well be supposed that while they are yet but a gathering all of them are but spirituall in the positive degree For what hinders but such a company of persons may come together to gather into a Church Now I pray what shall be done in this case if Church-mater in point of fitnesse must passe by the estimation of men more then positive in spiritualitie Must it be said in such a case that though they be all satisfied in conscience concerning the truth of one anothers conversion Yet they are not fit mater to make themselves a Church I would see semblance or shadow of reason for this Yea it appeareth contrary to sound reason because in homogeneall bodies such as a Church is by the Doctrine of our Brethren in the instance and period we are now speaking to what is sufficient to constitute a part is sufficient also to constitute the whole Therefore if Conversion and spiritualnesse in the positive degree be sufficient for one member of the Visible Church its sufficient also for the whole I mean considered yet as totum homogeneum The Author would do well to assay a clearing and extricating of these things upon his Principles section 6 The fourth thing to be considered is that the Author hath chosen an ambiguous term to be the subject of his thesis not distinguishing nor shewing in what sense he takes