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A12919 A discourse wherin is debated whether it be expedient that the scripture should be in English for al men to reade that wyll Fyrst reade this booke with an indifferent eye, and then approue or condempne, as God shall moue your heart. Standish, John, 1507?-1570. 1554 (1554) STC 23207; ESTC S117827 41,170 164

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nedefull God woulde haue sent it to the Eunuche to Saule and to Cornelius in the viij ix and x. of thactes but there ye reade that god sent them teachers Philip Anany and Peter and not the scripture whiche hadde been but in vayne as appeareth by the Eunuches sayinge howe shall I vnderstāde scripture by reading except I be taught Whervpon S. Hierom sayth Ego vt de me loquar nec sāctior sū hoc eunucho nec studiosior qu●cū librum teneret c. ignorabat tamen eum quē in libro nesciens venerabatur O howe manye this daye muche more ignorāt then Theunuche will take in hande onelye with their English boke to open mysteries bothe to theyr owne destruction and others The xxiij probation Our men wyll nothinge but theyr english booke but the holy man Ireneus which dyd see S Iohans disciple or as some affirme whiche was scholer to S. Iohans disciple named Policarpus doeth testifie that we must folowe the order of the traditions whiche the forefathers dyd leaue vnto them vnto whō they committed the cure of Christes people vnto whiche ordinaunces the very heathens sayth he comming to Christes stocke did obey hauing their belefe written by the sprit of God in theyr hartes and not writen with ynke in velom or perchement What shal we say then to theym whiche yet bewaile their Iewish scriptures plucked besyde the postes and walles onlye desyre theyr scripture with inke and paper in the booke As for saluation only wryten in the hart by the holy spirit it should seme they passe not of The .xxiiij. probation The heathen Philosopher would not youth to be the medlers with moral philosophy bycause they were vnapte therunto eyther to be Iudges therof or to take any profyt thereby and he ment not only youthe in yeares but also in maners a childe saieth Esaie of an hund●eth yeares old shal dye Esay lxv What then shal we saie shal we admit vnto the hādling of our heauēly philosophy whome the heathen thought vnmete vnworthy to handle theyr lerning whiche was but prophane woulde not the Iewes permitte all ages to the reading of all the bokes in the olde testament and shall we christen men doe it wyll we be worse then the Iewes Yea worse thē the prophane ethnickes and more out of order O Lord be mercifull vnto vs. The .xxv. probation It was neuer admitted though somtymes permitted in any place of christenedome scripture to continew in the vulgar tongue but only in tyme of scisme or heresy shall it nowe then be suffred to continew any longer in this realme so many mischefes yssewyng therout as haue done daily increasing these many yeares and would do styl more and more The .xxvi. probation When it is in the vulgar tonge the comen sorte play with Gods worde as the deuyll did disputing with Christ brought Gods worde but to a wronge purpose Christ said man lyueth not only by breade but by euery worde that procedeth fourth of Gods mouth The deuill spake Gods worde but it was not fourth of Gods mouth so did the olde Prophete of Bethell speake Gods word iii. Reg. xiii but not out of Gods mouthe Likewise did the CCCC iii. Re. xxii Prophetes whiche deceyued Achab. All sorcerers witches and cōiurers vse gods worde but not oute of Gods mouthe so haue all heretikes in tymes past and doe at this day But when is it Gods worde furthe of Gods mouthe Howe shall we know or proue that Euer when it is spoken according to the consent faythe of the catholike churche For very scripture doeth shewe that the trew vnderstandynge of Goddes worde and that is furth of gods mouth spoken is euer to be soughte in the catholike churche for the catholike church alone hath euer the true sense of scripture whiche is for that cause called of S. Paule the pyller and foundation of all trueth i. Timo. iii. wherein also for this cause God ordeyned some apostles some Euangelistes Ephes iiii some Prophetes and teachers styl to cōtinue lest we shoulde be ouerthrowē with blastes of errour And therfore Ireneus wttnesseth Iren. li. 3. cap. 3. and longe after him S. Augustine that the trewe meaning of scripture is to be hadde by the triall of the succession of the holye bishoppes and fathers since Peters time in the see of Rome which thinge caused S. Augustine to say I would not beleue the ghospell if thautoritie of the churche caused me not so to doe Aug. in epist fund So that we must beleue that hath been receyued of all men at all times and in all places of christendome and we muste leane to thantiquitie to the generalitie and consent of the fathers and the true sense and meanyng of scripture must euer be proued and tried oute herby How be it to none of this our new men wil agre because it whollye maketh agaynst thē but thei euer do studie to bring al into question to deny al general councels all ordinaunces decrees canons and expositours vpō scripture And much of this disorder thenglish Bible doeth cause wherfore me thinke it maye not well be permitted to continue The xxvij probation Can it be chosen but so long as all people haue the Byble in English at their pleasure there shal euer be some amonge them readie ministers of the deuyl to dispute reason and teache the residue to the vtter destruction of all deuotion and good order And yet amonge them selues they shall saye the cause is they can not be taught truelye of the preachers abrode And hereby heresye shal be sowed plentifullye and Gods worde pitifullye abused vnder a colourable defense therof Thei shal say o the Ghospell ought not to be kept from christen men and that is verye trueth it oughte to bee taught them and preached vnto them but not to teache them selues for wrastynge it amisse The xxviij probation It is the occasion of manye heresies to haue the scripture in the vulgar tongue Howe be it heresie dyd neuer spring furth of scripture but only of the peruerse vnderstandynge of scripture sayeth Hilarius Hilar. lib. ij de triuitate And yet then seing the rude ignorāt sort be euer prone peruersly to wrast the scriptures we muste thinke that to haue scripture in english is to minister occasiō to the cōmon sorte to fall into errours· that it so shall doe appeareth by that they be not hable to weye nor beare the mysteries nor to vnderstand the tropes and allegories whiche the greate learned men ofte are scant hable well to digeste howe much lesse the cobler carter or coryer The xxix probation Hilarius vpon In corde meo abscondi eloquia tua Sheweth that the high mysteries oughte not to be publyshed abrode amonge all people It is good saieth he to hyde the kynges priuetie and secret And s Paul saith he was aferd to fede the people with any other but with mylke Math. xiii Christ in the gospell telleth of
were then writen in the hertes of the faythfull but sone after when through synne it begāne to wax colde then was writing for the simples sake to preserue theyr faith and yet that not withstanding the authorite of the church the fundacion of all treuth of as greate strenght as it was before the new testament was all writen For were there not heretikes I pray you which denyed diuerse bokes of scripture as Martion and other wherewith were they subdued euyn with verities not written Marke wel that Moyses saith Origene greatly passed not for the letter writen when he dyd breake the tables nor Christe when he sayd to the Iewes the scripture shal be takē from you spake of the letter whiche they kepe styl but of the sense Wherfore awaye with the englishe damnable translation and lette them lerne the mysteries of god reuerently by hert and lerne to geue as muche credit to that whiche is not expressed as to that which is expressed in scripture Knowing that in .iij. pointes thautoritie of the churche is aboue the aucthoritie of scripture One is in fortifieng verities not writen to be necessary to saluation as plainly appeareth by manye verities in this probation another is for that the church receyued the gospels of Luke and Marke whiche Marke neuer saw Christ and did reiecte the Gospels made by his high Apostels Thomas and Bartilmew as for the gospell of Nicodeme which yet was familiar with Christe I speake not of The thyrde is bycause the church in all doubtfull causes and matters of controuersie must euer be iudge of the trew sense of scripture For she alone hath euer the true sēse of scripture So that by her authoritie onely Ireneus did conuince Valētin Tertulian Mertion Origen Celsum Ciprian Nouatum Nicen councell the Arians Hierom Iouinian and Augustine the Donatistes with many other And no meruell for so muche Christ him selfe made his Churche the Iudge ouer scripture when he sent the Apostels disciples to preache sayeng He that heareth you heareth me And also when he sayd Who so would not heare the Churche should be reputed and taken as an Ethnycke or Publican Seyng then that God thus appointed who wyll refuse to seke the trew vnderstandynge of scripture at that iudge whome Christ appointed hymselfe Surely none but selfe willie heretykes And here nowe to speake a worde or two of the Saboth and of mixtinge water wyth wine in the chalice whereof I should haue spoken before when I recited manye verities not written and firste concernynge the Saboth Albeit the matter of the precept be morall and the daye legal so that it myght be chaunged yet the church would neuer haue done that without speciall ordinaunce of God beinge made iudge in the cause And likewise it is to be sayde of mixtinge water wyth wyne in the chalice The Ghospel speaketh of wine onely tourned into Christes precious bloude who durste then mixte water therewith But the church is so assured of Goddes pleasure therein without any scripture that they dare not only put in water but also dare not leaue it oute And wherby knewe the church these thinges but by Christe and hys holy Apostles whiche taught in their time And so in these thinges and manye other moe went it furth from age to age continuinge in the churche tyll thys daye begonne by Christ in the beginninge withoute mention made in scripture written The .iiij. probation Some desire to haue it in the englyshe tongue only for knowledge and this is but curiositie some only for vain praise this is but vain glory to be sene learned Some only to taunt poore priestes and other therewith and this is but deuelishnes so that for none of these it ought to be in english Nowe where some would desyre it in english only to be edified thereby for this desyre only is to be embrased treuth is they may be sufficiently edified by sermons and holsom doctrine of the scriptures expounded vnto theym by such as haue the key of knoweledge as ofte as they shall well requyre and herewith a godly minde wyl be content knowing that the contrary is against the catholyke church So that euin the good and catholyke people which would doe good and noo hurt with the Bible in english yet may not be permitted to kepe it in the english tōge partly lest the infirme and weake thereby should be offended eyther in misiudging or in taking example yf occasion serue to get the same libertie to theyr destruction and partly that no occasion be geuen therby to obstinate heretikes to murmur that they haue it not in english them selues as wel as thother And this answer I geue vnto theym which seme of a godlye zeale to say scripture ought to be in english for the vse and commoditie of such people as with an earnest zeale and deuoute study doo hunger and thurste the simple and plaine knowlege of Gods worde not for contentious bablyng but for innocent lyuyng not to be curious searchers of the high mysteries but to be faithfull doers of Gods byddyngs not to be troublous talkers of the Bible but sincere folowers of Gods preceptes therin conteyned not to be vnreuerent reasoners in holy scripture for vain settīg out of their painted sheathe but to be hūble and louly workers of Gods glory not to be curious disputers in the Gospell for the mayntenaūce of theyr inordinate lustes and carnall libertye but to be vpryghte walkers in holye conuersation of lyfe in the rule of the gospell prescribed The fyfte probation Hauyng the scripture in englysh they presume to know all the scriptures perfitly and that to theyr condemnation contrary to s Hieroms rule which is this Si non succedat idoneus interpres potius nescire oportet quam cum periculo discere c. Yf there be not one present that is mete to expounde the scriptures it is better not to know the mysteries then with ieoperdie and peryll to searche theim c. The syxte probacion The most parte of the people be euyll but Christe wolde none such should haue the handlyng of his secrettes as appereth by that he willeth precious stones not to be caste amongest swine nor holye breade to dogges Therfore scripture ought not so to be lefte that all without anye discretion or difference may hādle it at their pleasures whiche muste nedes be if it be sette at libertie in the vulgar tongue in euerye churche The seuenth probation The moste part of the people be ignoraunt not hable to discerne betwene the letter and the mystery but none suche be mete iudges in suche high matters yet none wylbe more bolde then blynde bayarde therefore the scripture must be kepte furth of the handling of all suche which cānot be if it cōtinue in English as it doth for all men to dispute of it that wyll The eight probation Is not the scripture ful of figures and tropes Shal it then be so lefte that euery one shal be iudge therof The
A discourse wherin is debated whether it be expedient that the scripture should be in English for al men to reade that wyll ¶ Fyrst reade this booke with an indifferent eye and then approue or condempne as God shall moue your heart Non quis dicat sed quid dicat animaduertas velim ¶ EXCVSVM LONDINI IN aedibus Roberti Caly Typographi Mense Decembris Anno. 1554. Cum priuilegio ¶ A question to be moued to the highe courte of Parliament WHether it be necessary that the scripture shoulde be in the vulgare tonge for al men to reade at their pleasure withoute restraynt Yea or whether it may wel be permitted so to be Considerynge on the one parte the manifold inconueniences which haue sprong therby these yeres paste as obstinacie disobedience fleshely libertie losse of deuotion swarmes of errours and heresies with damnation of thousande soules and on the other parte weyenge discretlye not onelye the great difficultie that is in scripture with the causes thereof but also diuerse and sundrie most manifest probations whiche fully persuade that the scripture by no meanes ought to be suffred to be in euerye mans hande in the vulgare tonge for all men to descant vp on to wraste after their fleshlye appetites which all appeare euidentlye to be moste true by that whiche is here set furth in this processe That is to saye in these sixe chapters folowing The fyrst The scripture is very harde to be vnderstande The seconde God woulde the scripture to be obscure harde the mysteries not to be playne to al men The thyrde Sundrie causes wherof the hardnes in scripture doth come The fourth Howe many wayes the letter doeth kyll The fifth The best meanes to vnderstande scripture by The sixte Fiftie probations that scripture ought not to be in english Neuerthelesse to the entent none shoulde haue occasion to misconstrue the trew meanyng herof it is to be thought that if all men were good and catholike then were it lawfull yea and verye profitable also that the scripture shoulde be in Englishe so that the translation were trewe and faythfull But neyther all the people be good and catholike nor the translations trewe and faythfull As for the common translations whiche haue been vsed in moste mennes handes are so full of faultes that to correcte and amend them wer euen as a man woulde goe aboute to sowe vp euery hole in a nette to make it a whole clothe Yea and yet beside this yf your enemye should geue you bread which ye knew well he hadde poysoned before would ye not be afrayd though it be after scraped neuer so cleane to eate of it At al times heretikes haue laboured to corrupte the scriptures that they might serue for their noughtye purposes to confirme theyr errours therwith as Dionyse bishoppe of Corinth testifieth but speciallye nowe in our tyme O good Lorde howe haue the translatours of the Bible into Englishe purposelye corrupted the textes oft maliciously puttinge in suche wordes as might in the readers eares serue to the profe of suche heresies as they went aboute to sow Whiche be not onely set furth in the translations but also in certain Prologues and gloses added therevnto And these thynges thei haue so handled as in dede it is no greate maistrie to doe with probable reasons verye apparent to the simple and vnlearned that an infinite numbre of innocentes they haue spirituallye poysoned and corrupted within this realme caused them to perishe obstinatlye Nowe for the other parte all the people namelye the feruent readers of scripture in English be not onely not good but the moste parte of them be starke noughte so frowarde so peruerse so leude and so wicked that they be euer readye to peruert that whiche is good and to take a selfe wyllye opinion contrarye to the true sense of scripture and meaninge of tholye ghost as God knoweth experience hath shewed euer since the Bibles were set vp in churches common for all men that woulde to reade But yf all men I saye were good and catholike and the translations trewe and faythfull the Bible in English though it be nowe muche hurtfull then might be muche profitable And that is the cause that the Clergie did agree as it is in a cōstitution prouincial that the Bibles which were translated into Englishe before Wycliffes dayes might be suffred so that only such had them in handling as were allowed by the ordinarie and approued mete readers thereof that their readynge shoulde be onely to the settinge furthe of Goddes glorie For thoughe scripture to good people be a norisher of vertue and to them that bee noughte the meane of amendment and for him that is whole liuely foode and for him that is sicke euen as a medicine yet often tymes we see that one stomacke taketh harme of that meat wherof another taketh profit and that whiche helpeth one sicke man hurteth another Some men mighte be admitted to the readynge of S. Mathewes ghospell whiche yet be not hable well to wey the ghospell of S. Iohn Manye hable to peruse the actes of the Apostles whiche be farre vnmete to medle with Thapocalyps Many might be allowed to handle the Epistle to the Colossians whiche be to weake for the Epistle to the Romaines The father ofte permitteth to one of his childrē a knife to cut his meate withal wheras he taketh from another of hys children foreseyng his wantonnes the knife for feare of cutting his fingers Manye in these our miserable dayes nowe past haue so miserablie abused the scriptures agaynst the meaninge of tholye ghost that vnder the colour of great zeale and good affection they haue peruerted and wrasted all amisse Yea and scantly two of them haue in all poyntes wel agreed together neuerthelesse in this one poynt they all euer agreed That is to say to destroye vtterlye all vnitie and comely order all holye sacramentes all holye prayers and fastinges with all godlye deuotion And yet beside this nothing should sooner cause vs to iudge that scripture ought not to be in English for euery one to read and descant vpō that wyll then to see that the busie readers be euer for the moste parte of the wycked sorte suche be euer busie bodies to dispute and reason but al wtout reason of thinges farre passing their capacities where as S. Gregory Nazianzen rebuketh all those saying that onely Moyses ascended vp into the hyll spake with God Exod. but the people taryed beneth receiued the lawes preceptes that they should kepe and the pointes that thei shuld beleue at him saiyng vnto him as would god our leude gospellers would nowe say to the true preachers heare you God and let vs heare you Saint Hierome also in his tyme greatly complayneth that the comen ignorant people did presume to medle with the misteries of scripture ▪ seing that saint Paule sheweth that tholy ghost so ordeyned his churche that he wold haue some reders and some hearers some