Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
sense_n church_n faith_n tradition_n 1,844 5 9.2988 5 false
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A65779 Controversy-logicke, or, The methode to come to truth in debates of religion written by Thomas White, Gentleman. White, Thomas, 1593-1676. 1659 (1659) Wing W1816; ESTC R8954 77,289 240

There are 4 snippets containing the selected quad. | View lemmatised text

he followeth any other or so much as misdoubteth there can be any other comparable to this As for the other sort of men who of themselves are able and curious to look into the veins in which the rootes of Religion do runne Lett them but reflect on the change that hath been made in the world since Christian Religion began to flourish that is since Constantines time and since the first 300. yeares after Christ and they may demonstratiuely conclude that seeing the long space of 4. or 5 thousād yeares of nature was not able to produce those great and noble effects which wee evidently see have sprung up so aboundantly in so farre shorter a time the finger of God must necessarily be in this time and that Protestants by rejecting it as Papisticall do confesse plainely that all the great effects of Christian Religion are proper to those whom they terme Papists And seeing that the Ages since the first three after Christ are the whole flourishing time of the Christian Church this their disclayming them will appeare unto any understanding man to be the very renouncing of Christianity it selfe Now if he who pretendeth to knowledge be able to manage humane nature and to see how a freedome of heart from the pleasures and cares of this world is that which bringeth all good to man both in temporall and in spirituall considerations And that this freedome can not be introduced without a settled assurance of the goods of the next world nor that persuasion be wrought by any other meanes then by faith and by the course which Christ tooke for it He will not onely forbeare admiring that the world though fraught with arts in the first 2000. yeares should deserve the just revenge of the deluge-waters But will also discerne that as in the latter 2000. yeares before Christ it had advanced nothing att all So had it endured 4000. yeares more without the light that Christ brought into it it would never have growne better The love of worldly goods exalting arts and civility to a certaine pitch and then by its encrease into immoderation reducing all backe to barbarisme Or at least floating mankinde in a certaine compasse too and fro and never permitting it to grow into any heighth of perfection The fifth REFLEXION How Christian Religion hath been propagated and conserved THe threade of our discourse hath by this time woven vs into the consideration of the meanes where by one may come to the true Religion In which two inquiries occurre vnto vs the one concerning the beginning and first publication of Religion the other concerning the circumstances that belong unto it now in the present age wherein we live As for the former wee hauing our Saviours command to expresse that it ought to be done by preaching and hauing the testimony of all Christians euer since that it was so performed there remaineth no place to question how Christian Religion came first into the hearts of mankinde The Apostles had by Gods speciall gift the knowledge of all languages By this they could speake to all natitions And so it is generally vnderstood they did and that by word of mouth they propagated through all the world that faith which themselues had learned from Jesus Christ But that they carried any bookes about with them or that they did sett the nations they preached vnto on learning those languages in which the scripture was written there is no mention at all Nor is it either probable or possible that they did so it is well knowne that many of the Nations which att that time became Christian had no writing or reading in many ages after And so it is euident that the generall propagation of Christian faith was by vocall preaching and by vocall tradition from father to sonne of the doctrine first planted among them by the Apostles And indeed supposing Nations to be vnlearned it is cleare that there can be no other ordinary way of conueying this necessary discipline to posterity No doubt but the methode of the first institution is in a manner Ideall to the following continuation which is but a kind of repetition of the beginning And so we might justly conclude without any further paines that the conseruation of Religion ought to be likewise effected by original deliuery that is to say by Tradition But the very thing it selfe affordeth vs more light to see evidently the truth of our Conclusion For looking into the nature of that which is to be done we shall see plainly that it is impossible it should be effected by any other way What is it we meane by planting Religion in a Country but that the People of it should haue the knowledge of the way how to goe to Heauen Lett us then examine what signifyeth this word People There are two Notions of it The first is that it signifyeth the men the women and the Children of a common wealth or nation so comprising all the individuals of humane Nature that live in that nation Now of these it is the property of children to believe what is told them without doubting wheter it be true or no or ever judging of the thing proposed As for women a great part of them participateth of the same quality And the most of them are governed by their husbandes esteeming them if they have any worth in them the best of men The third member of this division falleth under the second notion of the word People and single is the whole subject of it for it signifyeth a multitude of men employed in seeking and in attending to their livelihoods and subsistance not looking after learning or applying themselves to study for which the greatest part of them wanteth either leisure or capacity or inclination Now in which sence soever this word is taken I● appeareth manifestly that Tradition is the necessary and onely meanes to establish faith in the people For the Maxime is well known that he who is not of an art must in what belongeth to that trust those whose particular skill and profession that art is And thus it is euident that the People taken according to the explication giuen must rely vpon an Authority for knowing what is the true Religion and what is not But when we once come to Authority there is no pretence for any but for that of the Catholike Church shee onely can speake authoritatiuely all others speaking from their owne heads and shee onely professing to speake from the mouth of Christ and of his Apostles shee onely hauing had the sense and meaning of the Apostles deliuered to her because shee onely hath continued euer since their times all the rest hauing nothing but dead words and the killing letter deliuered to them whiles for the sense of those wordes they haue no further recourses them to their owne imaginations and discourses In the next place lett us consider what is the knowledge of heaven And our first remarke will tell vs that it is such a knowledge as God himselfe was
or false But whether side is the more probable or plausible purely in relation to Scripture Clearely he who in any point will proceede according to conscience and prudence in this way of arguing is obliged to consider all that is contained in the whole Scripture concerning that point Weighing what he putteth in each side of the ballance with the best judgement God affordeth him that so he may judiciously pronounce sentence For the doing of which he ought to consider not onely the number of places that concerne his purpose but their qualities also and be able to compare those one with an other Now this is so hard a taske that the learnedst and ablest man a live may despaire of ever being able to effect it For how can he or any Man with reason persuade himselfe that either he or any other hath ever produced or ever can produce out of Scripture all that may from thence be alledged for any point in controversy since our Saviour himself hath given us a cleare example that arguments may be drawne and those efficacious ones from Texts where we least dreame of any such sense As when disputing against the Sadduces he made this argument God is God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob But he is not God of nothing Therefore Abraham Isaac and Jacob shall rise againe or do remaine in soule hoping for their body and resurrection who can be confident of saying or knowing all that is in Scripture concerning any point when the proofes of truths may lye in such unlikely places Surely it must be either a great ignorance or a great temerity to undertake it And therefore we may conclude that it is impossible we should ever arrive so farre in this way of search as to know really what is more or lesse probable out of Scripture But all that we may hope to attaine unto is onely to be able to judge what is more or lesse probable out of those places which well our selves do know or att most out of those places which the Authors we have seene do bring And so it is evident that they who relye on Scripture or rather that professe to do so do not in truth relye upon it but upon their owne or their Teachers diligence whom they suppose to know the whole latitude of Scripture-proofe Which is not onely false but impossible for any man to do The fourteenth REFLEXION On the Arguments drawne out of the Fathers THe second nest of Authority out of which Arguments take wing Is the copious library of Fathers Wherein it is to be considered that whether Catholike or Protestant be to argue the Text he alledgeth hath a double remove from the conclusion he would prove For whereas in allegations of Scripture both sides agree that what it sayth is certainly true and so all the difficulty consisteth in knowing what is true meaning of the place alledged it is otherwise allegations of Fathers For in them there arise two questions The one whether that which the argugent pretendeth be the Fathers opinion the other whether that which the Father sayth be true after it is agreed to be his opinion For neither Catholike nor Protestant doth agree to all things that one or two Fathers may hold But indeed Protestants do defie them all And Catholikes require an universality in them to make them infallible So that if either Catholike or Protestant be the Arguer he ought to settle before-hand with his adversary that such a Father or Fathers as he intendeth to produce be of unquestionable authority between them Or else not to meddle with them for it were but labour lost and breath cast away The Protestants use to make two comparisons in Fathers The one in Age or Antiquity the other in learning or reputation As for the former they insist much upon the three first Ages supposing them to be purer then the rest In doing of which it is evident that their ayme is to reject all For when they list and that it concerneth them they will tell you that the impurity of doctrin began as soon as the Apostles were dead Now if by this Impurity they meane damnable errors then by saying so they evacuate all the authority of Fathers For they allow it no further then as it pleaseth every disputant or Minister to declare the point controverted to bee or not to bee a damnable error And thus even the three first Ages are blowne away with the rest But if the point in Controversy be no damnable error then the Fathers authority importeth litle erring being but of small consequence in such Matters as do not concerne salvation and there being no obligation upon a Christian to know unnecessary truths In a word If the Church can erre and hath erred these thousand yeares it is but courtesy to say she did not so in the former six hundred And so in truth the Fathers have no authority att all But if it can not erre nor hath erred Then the Fathers of the latter Ages own as good wittnesses as those of the former so they be induced with Universality The other comparison or distinction that Protestants use to make of the Fathers concerning their learning and reputation is as little to the purpose as that of their Antiquity For we do not cite Fathers as Doctors whose opinion is no better then the reason they bring for it but as wittnesses whose authority consisteth in a grave and moderate knowledge of what is believed and practised by the Church in the ages respectively wherein they lived And out of this it followeth that for wittnessing of Christian faith no one Father is to be preferred before an other It is true in some sense the testimony of a more antient Father may be sayd to be preferred before a more moderne one because the formall witnessing of it is of more neerenesse to Christ and of longer durance towards us But in regard of learning No Father hath more authority nor is more to be valued then an other for what concerneth faith though in other respects it be very considerable For a lesse learned Father is as credible a wittnesse as the learnedst of what is the present practise and beliefe of Christians so he have learning sufficient to warrant his understanding and knowing so much And in reality any Father whose authority carrieth us beyond the apparent memory of mankind att present living is as good as the best for declaring the faith of the Church in the time he lived in Which because it received its doctrine by entaile from age to age every Fathers testimony in such Matters of faith is firme and irrefragable To conclude therefore The Catholike maketh no difference of the quality of Fathers nor much of their Antiquity but admitteth all so they come with universality The Protestant though he will a little simper att it yet in Conclusion he rejecteth all setting his owne judgement which he calleth Scripture for high Umpire of what in them is right what wrong Therefore
Sexes dedicated to God Religious Ceremonies and all sorts of enticements to love heaven and follow good life So that the Antiquity the Protestant pretends to is of wanting wilfully those means of helping soules which the primitive Church wanted by the Violence of Persecution and the Antiquity meaned by Catholicks is of being like the Ancient Church in all things that promote vertue inwardly and outwardly The ninth Shuffle Of the Word Tradition TO Antiquity hangs Tradition that is the receiving of Doctrine and Customes from the Ancient Church The which Catholicks place in this that it is derived fom the Apostles to us by the continuall and immediate delivery of one Age to another the sons continuing their Fathers both beliefe and conversation in Christian life and treading the same paths of Salvation This was a bit of too soure a digestion for Protestants being not able to shew any Masters from whome they had received theire beliefe Yet a Tradition they must have not to be openly convinced of having forged their doctrine Some of them therefore sayed they received their doctrine by the Tradition of the Bible made unto them by the Churches continuing since the Apostles time Wherein you see an open equivocating in the word of Tradition Catholicks taking it for the delivery of doctrine that is of sense and meaning the Protestants for the delivery of a mute book or killing letter Others call Tradition the Testimony of the Fathers of all Ages and so att least divert the Question Turning the proof of Religion which is plaine and easie to every ordinary understanding into a business of learning and long study in which though they be worstted yet the People cannot see it nor descry theire falshood The tenth Shuffle Of the word Really TO descend from the Universality or defence of their whole Religiō to speciall articles of it wee shall finde them there like themselves As for example those who beare an outward respect to the Fathers finding them concurring so thick to testify Christes Body to bee in the Holy Eucharist will see me to say the same and use the word of Christ being Really and verily and truely in the Sacrament and that they onely question the manner how he is there which is lawfull amongst Catholicks to do So that you cannot almost distinguish them from Catholicks Vntil you come to explicatiō There the Catholick sayeth that Christes Body is in the sacrament as the substance of Bread was in the thing which before wee called Bread and now is no more but turned into that body wich was hanged on the Cross by an entitative and reall mutation The Protestant wil tell you that it is stil Bread and naturally and entitatively the same thing wich it was before consecration but that by faith which is a real actiō it is Christes true body to us How to justify these words that by Faith it is Christes true body is impossible unless they wil have us believe by faith what they tell us is false Therefore others say it is an assurāce of Christs Body as a bond is of mony Peradventure of enjoying Christe in Heaven But how different both senses bee from the Catholick which they seek to be thought theirs and from the natural meaning of the words every mā cā see So that the manner of being Christes Body which they question signifies whether it bee truely there or no but onely by a false apprehension they call Faith The eleventh Suffle Of the Word Sacrifice The like is of the word Sacrifice and Altar and such other In which the Catholick position makes these words proper and that the Mass is as or more properly signified by the word sacrifice as the sacrifice of the old law That there is a true and real separatiō of the body of our Saviour from his bloud and more proper to the names then nature can make which can not make a true body when the bloud is separated nor true bloud whē the body is left out wich in this sacramēt is performed and nevertheless Christe entire and untouched But a Protestāt wil tel you that whē the Holy offering is called a sacrifice it is meaned a sacrifice of praise or thanks giving that is in reality no sacrifice but an outward ceremony of praise or thāks giving others that it is a resemblāce or represētatiō of a sacrifice to wit of that of the holy Cross so that you see the differēce of the two significatiōs is no less thē whē by the same word as of Christes one means Christs Person another a Crucifix or the picture of Christe The twelfth Shuffle Of the Word Priesthood In consequēce and conformity to this they abuse the Word of Priesthood For finding al Antiquity gloriously full of this name they must also use it and finding St. Paul had too expressely taught us that a Priest was a publick Officer ordained to offer to God giftes and sacrifices and that he ought to be legitimately called to the office and that Catholiks take Priesthood in this meaning And how on the other side themselves had taken out of the Church all solemn offerings and sacrifice the business of a Priest and nevertheless shame on one side and ambition on the other egged them on to call themselves Priests they were forced to corrupt the Word sacrifice first as is declared to come to the name Priesthood So that Priesthood in the Protestant meaning is an officer chosen to sing Psalmes in the sight of the People The which how different it is from the Catholick explication of being the publick Officer of the eternall sacrifice is too plain to be declared Onely I must add that who takes ordination with the intention onely to become the chief or high singer of the Parish receiveth not Priesthood as it is meaned and used in the Catholick Church The thirteenth Shuffle Of the word Faith THe abuse of this name Faith must not bee omitted which Catholicks taking for a perswasion of such truths as are necessary to bring us to good life and salvation which perswasion wee settle upon Christes doctrine delivered unto us by Tradition of the Church The which meaning is cleare in the Apostle who expresseth himself to speak of faith that works by Charity The first Protestants took the word Faith as excluding Charity and cryed downe good works as improfitable the latter ashamed of this as destroying good life and plainly contrary to the whole designe of Scripture and Fathers took it for the same faith that Catholicks do but would have it have force precisely out of its being a persuasion and the working to follow to no effect but as a hanger on without any End whereas Catholicks make the persuasion to bee chiefly or wholly to breed Charity which is the true cause of salvation But the presbiterian party and the plainer dealing Protestants have quite changed and destroyed faith saying faith is a Persuasion that the believer must have that hee in Person is one of the
us to follow them doe demolish the fences and bullwarckes of the same Christianity and good life But all they who deserve the name of heretikes do agree to charge the Church of Christ with corruption and adultery and do deny in her both infallibility to know Christs doctrine and power to governe And consequently they destroy externall unity and the essence of it Which as it is not formally to ruine good life so it is more then to breake downe her outworkes since it entrencheth upon the very substance in common and leaveth no meanes but meere chance and hazard to come to the knowledge of Christs law and consequently to eternall salvation Whence we may understand what this name Popery signyfyeth to witt An affection or resolution to maintaine faith and good life and the causes of conserving them There are divers other points controverted betweene Catholikes and Sectaries But they are such as for the most part require no explication but a flatt denyall As when they accuse us to have deprived the Laiety of halfe the Communion we deny it For besides that the generall practise of Christians hath bin from the beginning to give the sacrament sometimes in one kinde ometimes in both the Church hath alwayes believed that the entire communion was perfectly administred in either We likewise deny that ever the Church held the necessity of communicating Infants The Popes personall infallibility that Indulgences can draw soules out of Purgatory that Prayers ought of necessity be in an unknowne tongue to though we may thinke it fitting in some circumstances that the publike service for reverence and Majesty be so performed that faith is not to be kept with Heretikes that the Pope can dispense with the subjection to Princes And many such other Tenets which are injuriously imposed upon Catholikes by Sectaries and are flatly denyed by us and therefore require no further explication or discourse about them A Sampler of Protestants Shuffling in there Disputes of Religion COntroversy Logick or the art of discoursing in matter of Religion between those who profess the Law of Christe can not be complete unless as Aristotle made a Book of fallacies to avoide cavills in his Organe or instrument of science so wee also discover the common fallacies used in controversies Not all but the chiefest and most ordinarily in this business This then is the scope of my present work For which the first note I make is that owre Ancients have taught us and by experience wee daylie finde that Heresie is in a manner as soon overthrowne as layed open falshood like turpitude being ashamed of nakedness Therefore 't is falshoods game to vest it self like an Angel of light in the skin of the lamb and to seeme to weare the Robes of truth I mean by words like those of the Catholick party to delude the simplicity of the Innocent and welwishing People And now must it be our theame to unvaile theire Shufflings The first Shuffle Of the Word Scripture And first If we aske them what they rely upon they braggingly answer on Gods word upbraiding Catholicks to rely upon men when they fly to the churches witness but if we press thē to declare what they meā by Gods word to wit the Book of the Bible or the meaning of it they are forced to answer the sense for even beasts can convince them that wee have the Book as well as they Marching on another step and pressing to know by what instruments or means they have the sense there is no subterfuge from confessing it is by reading and their owne judging or thinking the sense of the Scripture is that which they affirme though all Catholicks affirm the contrary And although even in this they are cosened following for the most part the explication of their preacher Yet I press not that for they know not that they do so But I conclude see what you meane when you say you rely upon Scripture or Gods word to wit that you rely upon your owne opinion or guessing that this is Gods word So that this glorious profession of relying upon Gods word is in substance and reality to rely upon the opinion or guessing of a Cobler or Tinker or some house-wife when the answerers are such or at most of a Minister who for his owne interest is bound to maintaine this is the meaning of Gods word The second Shuffle Of Generall Councils SOme Protestants are so bold as to profess they wil stand to Generall Councils Now a General Council in the language of Catholicks is a general meeting of the Christian World by the Bishops and Deputies of it to testify the Doctrine of the Christian Church And is accounted inerrable in such determinations and therefore to have power to command the faith of Christians and to cast out of the Church al who do not yield to such their determinations and agreements and by consequence to have a supreme Authority in the Church in matters of faith The Protestants loath to leave the shadow though they care not for the substance use the name but to no effect For the intention being to manifest the Doctrine of the Christian World They first agree not upon the notion of what a Council is Requiring sometimes that al Bishops should bee present sometimes that all Patriarks though known to bee professed Hereticks and under the Turk sometimes objecting want of liberty and mainly that they decide not by disputation out of onely scripture or that they taught false Doctrine So that to the Protestant a Council signifies an indefinite and uncertaine when and what it is meeting of men going upon the scripture Which as it is before declared signifies every cobler or Ministers fancie which hath no authority to binde men to believe and is to bee judged by the Doctrine or agreement in faith with the Protestants The third Shuffle Of the consent of Fathers THe consent of the Fathers or Doctours of Christians before oure age and controversies beares so Venerable an aspect as that few Hereticks dare at least before honest understanding Christians give it flatly the lye Therefore the discreeter part of Protestants acknowledg it yet with a salve that they were all men and might bee deceived which in effect is to say that it is no convincing or binding Authority as Catholicks hold it to bee nay to bee a stronger authority then that of Councils as being the judgement of the Catholick Church or the learned part of it which is al one as to faith The Protestant first at one clap cutts of a thousand or 13. hundred yeares nay some 15. hundred The one saying S. Gregory the great was the last Father and first Papistrie the more ordinary course being to acknowledg onely the Fathers of the Persecution time before Constantine finding Popery as they call it to publick afterwards some pressing that ever since the decease of the Apostles the Church hath been corrupted So that they neither give any authority to the consent of Fathers nor